TEDGlobal 2011
Alain de Botton: Atheism 2.0
Alain de Botton: Ateismo 2.0
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Erligioaren zein alderdi dira ateoek (begirunez) bereganatu beharko lituzketeenak? Alain de Botton-ek "ateoentzako erlijioa" – Atesimo 2.0 – proposatzen du. Portaera erlijiosoak eta tradizioak uztartzen ditu gure gizabeharrak asetzeko; besteak beste, lotura, errituala eta haraindikotasuna.
Alain de Botton - Philosopher
Through his witty and literate books -- and his new School of Life -- Alain de Botton helps others find fulfillment in the everyday. Full bio
Through his witty and literate books -- and his new School of Life -- Alain de Botton helps others find fulfillment in the everyday. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
One of the most common ways of dividing the world
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Mundua banatzeko era arruntenetariko bat
00:18
is into those who believe
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fededunen
00:20
and those who don't --
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eta fedegabeen artean da,
00:22
into the religious and the atheists.
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sinestunen eta ateoen artean.
00:25
And for the last decade or so,
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Gutxi gorabehera azkenengo hamarkadan
00:27
it's been quite clear
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oso argi geratu da
00:29
what being an atheist means.
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ateo izateak zer esan nahi duen.
00:31
There have been some very vocal atheists
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Ateo batzuek asko hitz egin dute
00:34
who've pointed out,
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azpimarratuz
00:36
not just that religion is wrong,
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erlijioa okerra ez ezik
00:38
but that it's ridiculous.
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barregarria ere badela.
00:40
These people, many of whom have lived in North Oxford,
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Pertsona horiek, asko Oxford iparraldean bizitakoak,
00:43
have argued --
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hau esan dute --
00:45
they've argued that believing in God
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argudiatu dute Jainkoagan sinestea
00:48
is akin to believing in fairies
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lamietan sinestea bezala dela
00:50
and essentially that the whole thing
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eta, funtsean, guztia
00:52
is a childish game.
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haur-jolasa dela.
00:54
Now I think it's too easy.
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Baina, uste dut errazegia dela.
00:56
I think it's too easy
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Iruditzen zait errazegia dela
00:58
to dismiss the whole of religion that way.
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erlijio osoa modu horretan baliogabetzea.
01:01
And it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
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Urmael batean arrantza egitea bezain erraza da.
01:03
And what I'd like to inaugurate today
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Beraz, gaur hasiera eman nahiko nioke
01:05
is a new way of being an atheist --
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ateo izateko era berri bati,
01:07
if you like, a new version of atheism
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nahi baduzue, ateismo bertsio berriari;
01:10
we could call Atheism 2.0.
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Ateismo 2.0 dei geniezaioke.
01:13
Now what is Atheism 2.0?
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Zer da Ateismo 2.0?
01:15
Well it starts from a very basic premise:
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Beno, oso premisa argi batetik abiatzen da:
01:17
of course, there's no God.
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Noski, Jaungoikoa ez da existitzen.
01:20
Of course, there are no deities or supernatural spirits
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Jakina, ez dago jainkorik, ezta izaki supernaturalik,
01:23
or angels, etc.
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edo aingerurik ere.
01:25
Now let's move on; that's not the end of the story,
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Baina egin dezagun aurrera; istorioa ez da hor amaitzen,
01:28
that's the very, very beginning.
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hori, hasiera besterik ez da.
01:31
I'm interested in the kind of constituency
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Interesatzen zaidan ateo taldeak
01:34
that thinks something along these lines:
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ildo honetan pentsatzen du:
01:36
that thinks, "I can't believe in any of this stuff.
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"Ezin dut halako ezertan sinetsi,
01:38
I can't believe in the doctrines.
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Ezin dut erlijio-doktrinetan sinetsi,
01:41
I don't think these doctrines are right.
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Ez dut uste doktrina horiek zuzenak direnik.
01:43
But," a very important but, "I love Christmas carols.
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Baina" oso garrantzitsua "Gabonetako kantuak izugarria gustatzen zaizkit.
01:47
I really like the art of Mantegna.
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Mantegna-ren artea izugarri gustatzen zait.
01:50
I really like looking at old churches.
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Antzinako elizei begiratzea gustatzen zait.
01:52
I really like turning the pages of the Old Testament."
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Itun Zaharraren orrialdeak pasatzea gustatzen zait".
01:55
Whatever it may be,
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Dena dela ere,
01:57
you know the kind of thing I'm talking about --
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badakizue zeri buruz ari naizen;
01:59
people who are attracted to the ritualistic side,
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errituak bereganatu dituzten pertsonak;
02:01
the moralistic, communal side of religion,
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erlijioaren alde morala eta komunala atsegin dutenak;
02:04
but can't bear the doctrine.
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baina doktrinak jasan ezin dituztenak.
02:06
Until now, these people have faced a rather unpleasant choice.
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Orain arte, pertsona horiek aukera ezeroso baten aurrean zeuden.
02:09
It's almost as though either you accept the doctrine
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Edo doktrina onartu,
02:12
and then you can have all the nice stuff,
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eta gustoko duzun guzti hori eskuratu,
02:14
or you reject the doctrine and
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edo doktrinari uko egin eta
02:16
you're living in some kind of spiritual wasteland
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basamortu espiritual moduko batean bizi
02:18
under the guidance of CNN and Walmart.
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CNN eta Walmart-en gidaritzapean.
02:20
So that's a sort of tough choice.
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Benetan dilema zaila da.
02:22
I don't think we have to make that choice.
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Ez daukagu zertan bi hauen artean aukeratu beharrik.
02:24
I think there is an alternative.
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Uste dut alternatiba bat badela.
02:26
I think there are ways --
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Uste dut badirela bideak
02:28
and I'm being both very respectful and completely impious --
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– errespetuz eta, aldi berean, lotsagabeki diot –
02:31
of stealing from religions.
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erlijioengandik ideiak lapurtzeko.
02:33
If you don't believe in a religion,
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Erlijio jakin batean sinesten ez badugu
02:35
there's nothing wrong with picking and mixing,
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arazorik gabe, batetik eta bestetik gustokoa hartu eta
02:37
with taking out the best sides of religion.
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nahastu genezake erlijioen alde onenak jasotzeko.
02:40
And for me, atheism 2.0
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Nire ustez, Ateismo 2.0
02:42
is about both, as I say,
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esan bezela,
02:44
a respectful and an impious way
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errespetuz eta lotsarik gabe,
02:47
of going through religions and saying, "What here could we use?"
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erlijioak aztertu eta, "Zer erabili dezakegu hontatik?" esatean datza.
02:50
The secular world is full of holes.
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Mundu sekularra hutsunez beteta dago.
02:52
We have secularized badly, I would argue.
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Txarto sekularizatu garela esango nuke.
02:55
And a thorough study of religion
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Eta erlijioaren azterketa sakonetik
02:57
could give us all sorts of insights
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ikasgai anitzak jaso ditzakegu
02:59
into areas of life that are not going too well.
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hain ongi ez dihoazkigun bizitzaren eremu horietaz.
03:02
And I'd like to run through a few of these today.
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Eta ikasketa horietako batzuk azaldu nahi nituzke gaur.
03:06
I'd like to kick off by looking at education.
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Hezkuntzari begiratuz hasi nahi nuke.
03:09
Now education is a field
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Hezkuntza eremuan
03:11
the secular world really believes in.
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mundu sekularrak erabateko sinesmena du.
03:13
When we think about how we're going to make the world a better place,
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Mundua nola hobetu pentsatzen jartzen garenean,
03:15
we think education; that's where we put a lot of money.
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hezkuntza datorkigu burura; horretan jartzen dugu gure dirua.
03:18
Education is going to give us, not only commercial skills, industrial skills,
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Hezkuntzak lanerako eta industriarako trebetasunak emateaz gain,
03:21
it's also going to make us better people.
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pertsona hobeak izaten lagunduko digu.
03:23
You know the kind of thing a commencement address is, and graduation ceremonies,
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Badakizue, hitzaldietan eta graduazio-zeremonietan,
03:26
those lyrical claims
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halako aldarrikapen lirikoak izaten dira:
03:28
that education, the process of education -- particularly higher education --
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hezkuntzak, hezkuntza-prozesuak -- bereziki, goi mailako hezkuntzak --
03:31
will make us into nobler and better human beings.
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gizaki prestuago eta zintzoagoak egingo gaituela.
03:34
That's a lovely idea.
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Ideia zoragarria da.
03:36
Interesting where it came from.
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Jatorria ere interesgarria da.
03:38
In the early 19th century,
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XIX. mendearen hasieran,
03:40
church attendance in Western Europe
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Europa Mendebaldean elizara zihoan jende kopurua
03:42
started sliding down very, very sharply, and people panicked.
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asko murriztu zen, oso denbora laburrean eta zenbait izutu egin ziren.
03:45
They asked themselves the following question.
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Euren buruari zera galdetzen zioten:
03:47
They said, where are people going to find the morality,
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Non aurkituko du jendeak moraltasuna,
03:50
where are they going to find guidance,
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non topatuko dute aholkularitza,
03:52
and where are they going to find sources of consolation?
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eta non aurkituko dituzte kontsolamendurako iturriak?
03:54
And influential voices came up with one answer.
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Ahots boteretsuek orduan erantzun bateratua eman zuten.
03:56
They said culture.
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Kultura proposatu zuten.
03:58
It's to culture that we should look
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Kultura izango da oinarri
04:00
for guidance, for consolation, for morality.
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aholkularitzarako, kontsolamendurako, moraltasunerako.
04:03
Let's look to the plays of Shakespeare,
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Har ditzagun Shakespeare-en antzezlanak,
04:05
the dialogues of Plato, the novels of Jane Austen.
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Platon-en elkarrizketak, Jane Austen-en eleberriak.
04:08
In there, we'll find a lot of the truths
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Lan horietan egia asko aurkituko ditugu
04:10
that we might previously have found in the Gospel of Saint John.
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lehenago San Joanen ebanjelioan aurkitzen genituen berberak agian.
04:13
Now I think that's a very beautiful idea and a very true idea.
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Uste dut hau oso ideia polita dela eta egia da.
04:16
They wanted to replace scripture with culture.
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Ebanjelioa kulturarekin ordezkatu nahi izan zuten.
04:19
And that's a very plausible idea.
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Eta oso ideia onargarria da.
04:21
It's also an idea that we have forgotten.
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Halaber, ahaztu dugun ideia bat ere bada.
04:25
If you went to a top university --
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Unibertsitate ospetsuren batera joko bagenu --
04:27
let's say you went to Harvard or Oxford or Cambridge --
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demagun Harvard, Oxford edo Cambridgera --
04:29
and you said, "I've come here
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esanaz, "Hona etorri naiz
04:31
because I'm in search of morality, guidance and consolation;
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moraltasunaren, aholkularitza eta kontsolamenduaren bila;
04:33
I want to know how to live,"
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nola bizi jakin nahi dut,"
04:35
they would show you the way to the insane asylum.
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eroetxerako bidea erakutsiko ligukete.
04:38
This is simply not what our grandest and best institutes of higher learning
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Gure goi mailako hezkuntza-instituzioek
04:41
are in the business of.
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ez dute horrelako lanik egiten.
04:43
Why? They don't think we need it.
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Zergatik? Ez dute uste beharrezkoa denik.
04:45
They don't think we are in an urgent need of assistance.
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Ez dute uste laguntza-premiarik daukagunik.
04:48
They see us as adults, rational adults.
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Pertsona heldu arrazionaltzat jotzen gaituzte.
04:50
What we need is information.
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Behar duguna informazioa da.
04:52
We need data, we don't need help.
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Datuak behar ditugu, ez laguntzarik.
04:54
Now religions start from a very different place indeed.
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Baina erlijioek bestelako abiapuntua dute.
04:57
All religions, all major religions,
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Erlijio guztiek, erlijio nagusi guztiek
04:59
at various points call us children.
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umetzat hartzen gaituzte.
05:02
And like children,
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Eta ume garenez gero,
05:04
they believe that we are in severe need of assistance.
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sinesten dute laguntza premian gaudela.
05:06
We're only just holding it together.
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Doi doi eusten diogu gure buruari.
05:08
Perhaps this is just me, maybe you.
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Agian hau nere irudipena soilik da, agian zurea ere bai.
05:10
But anyway, we're only just holding it together.
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Baina doi doi eusten diogu gure buruari.
05:13
And we need help. Of course, we need help.
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Eta laguntza behar dugu. Noski behar dugula.
05:15
And so we need guidance and we need didactic learning.
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Baita aholkularitza eta ikaskuntza didaktikoa ere.
05:18
You know, in the 18th century in the U.K.,
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XVIII. mendean, Erresuma Batuan,
05:20
the greatest preacher, greatest religious preacher, was a man called John Wesley,
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erlijio sermolari onena John Wesley izeneko gizon bat zen,
05:23
who went up and down this country delivering sermons,
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herria goitik behera zeharkatu zuen sermoiak ematen,
05:26
advising people how they could live.
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jendeari nola bizi aholkatzen.
05:28
He delivered sermons on the duties of parents to their children
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Gurasoen seme-alabekiko betebeharrei buruz sermoiak ematen zituen
05:30
and children to their parents,
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baita seme-alaben gurasoekiko betebeharrez,
05:32
the duties of the rich to the poor and the poor to the rich.
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aberatsen txiroekiko eta txiroen aberatsekiko betebeharrez.
05:34
He was trying to tell people how they should live
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Jendeari nola bizi behar luketen esaten saiatu zen
05:36
through the medium of sermons,
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sermoien bidez,
05:38
the classic medium of delivery of religions.
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erlijioen ohiko komunikazio-metodoa.
05:41
Now we've given up with the idea of sermons.
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Orain sermoien ideia guztiz arbuiatu dugu.
05:43
If you said to a modern liberal individualist,
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Gaur egungo liberal indibidualista bati esango bagenio,
05:45
"Hey, how about a sermon?"
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"Aizu, sermoi bat entzun nahi duzu?"
05:47
they'd go, "No, no. I don't need one of those.
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erantzuna, "Ez, ez ,ez. Ez dut horrelakorik behar.
05:49
I'm an independent, individual person."
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Pertsona gizabanakoa eta burujabea naiz."
05:51
What's the difference between a sermon
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Zer alde dago sermoi bat
05:53
and our modern, secular mode of delivery, the lecture?
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eta gaur egungo hitzaldiaren artean?
05:56
Well a sermon wants to change your life
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Ba, sermoi batek zure bizitza aldatu nahi du
05:59
and a lecture wants to give you a bit of information.
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eta hitzaldiak informazioa eman nahi dizu.
06:02
And I think we need to get back to that sermon tradition.
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Eta nire ustez sermoiaren tradiziora bueltatu behar dugu.
06:05
The tradition of sermonizing is hugely valuable,
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Sermoiak emateko tradizioa oso baliogarria da,
06:07
because we are in need of guidance,
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aholkularitza beharrean garelako,
06:09
morality and consolation --
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moraltasunaren eta kontsolamenduaren beharra ere --
06:11
and religions know that.
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eta erlijioek badakite hori.
06:13
Another point about education:
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Hezkuntzari buruz beste puntu bat:
06:15
we tend to believe in the modern secular world
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Gure mundu sekularrean badugu sinesteko joera bat;
06:17
that if you tell someone something once, they'll remember it.
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norbaiti zerbait behin esan eta gogoratuko duela.
06:20
Sit them in a classroom, tell them about Plato
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Ikasgela batean esertzen ditugu, Platon-i buruz hitz egin
06:22
at the age of 20, send them out for a career in management consultancy for 40 years,
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20 urterekin, enpresa kudeaketa-aholkularitzan 40 urtetako lanbidean bidali
06:25
and that lesson will stick with them.
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eta ikasgai hura beti gogoan izango dute.
06:27
Religions go, "Nonsense.
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Erlijioen iritziz, "Txorakeriak.
06:29
You need to keep repeating the lesson 10 times a day.
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Ikasgaia egunean 10 bider errepikatu behar da.
06:32
So get on your knees and repeat it."
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Beraz, belaunikatu eta errepikatu."
06:34
That's what all religions tell us:
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Hau da erlijio guztiek esaten digutena:
06:36
"Get on you knees and repeat it 10 or 20 or 15 times a day."
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"Belauniko jarri eta errepikatu egunean 10 edo 20 edo 15 bider."
06:39
Otherwise our minds are like sieves.
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Gainontzean gure adimena bahe modukoa da.
06:41
So religions are cultures of repetition.
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Beraz, erlijioak errepikapen kulturak dira.
06:43
They circle the great truths again and again and again.
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Egia nagusiak behin eta berriz azpimarratzen dituzte.
06:45
We associate repetition with boredom.
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Errepikapena aspertzearekin lotzen dugu.
06:47
"Give us the new," we're always saying.
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"Erakutsi zer den berria", esan ohi dugu.
06:49
"The new is better than the old."
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"Berria zaharra baino hobea da."
06:51
If I said to you, "Okay, we're not going to have new TED.
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Esango banizue, "Ados, ez da TED saio berririk izango.
06:53
We're just going to run through all the old ones
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Zaharrak errepikatu besterik ez dugu egingo
06:55
and watch them five times because they're so true.
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eta 5 aldiz ikusiko ditugu guztiz egiazkoak direlako.
06:57
We're going to watch Elizabeth Gilbert five times
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Elisabeth Gilbert-en saioa 5 aldiz ikusiko dugu
07:00
because what she says is so clever," you'd feel cheated.
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esaten duena hain da azkarra", guztiz iruzurtuak sentituko zinatekete.
07:03
Not so if you're adopting a religious mindset.
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Baina ez, ikuspuntu erlijiosoa hartuko bazenute.
07:05
The other things that religions do
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Erlijioek egiten duten beste gauza bat
07:07
is to arrange time.
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denbora antolatzea da.
07:09
All the major religions give us calendars.
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Erlijio nagusi guztiek ematen dizkigute egutegiak.
07:11
What is a calendar?
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Zer da egutegi bat?
07:13
A calendar is a way of making sure that across the year
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Egutegi batek bermatzen du, urte osoan zehar
07:16
you will bump into certain very important ideas.
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zenbait ideia oso garrantzitsu topatuko dituzuela.
07:19
In the Catholic chronology, Catholic calendar,
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Kronologia katolikoan, egutegi katolikoan,
07:22
at the end of March you will think about St. Jerome
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martxoaren amaieran, San Jeronimogan pentsatuko duzue
07:24
and his qualities of humility and goodness
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eta bere apaltasun eta ontasun ezaugarrietan
07:26
and his generosity to the poor.
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baita bere eskuzabaltasunean txiroekiko.
07:28
You won't do that by accident; you will do that because you are guided to do that.
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Ez da kasualitatez gertatuko; hartara gidatuak izango zaretelako egingo duzue hori.
07:31
Now we don't think that way.
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Gaur ez dugu horrela pentsatzen.
07:33
In the secular world we think, "If an idea is important, I'll bump into it.
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Gure mundu sekularraren pentsakera: "Ideia garrantzitsua bada, ageriko egingo zaigu.
07:35
I'll just come across it."
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Gure bidean topatuko dugu."
07:37
Nonsense, says the religious world view.
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Txorakeriak, dio erlijioaren ikuspegiak.
07:39
Religious view says we need calendars, we need to structure time,
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Erlijioaren ikuspegiak dio egutegiak behar ditugula, denbora antolatzu behar dugula,
07:42
we need to synchronize encounters.
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topaketak sinkronizatu behar ditugu..
07:44
This comes across also
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Hau, hein berean
07:46
in the way in which religions set up rituals
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erlijioen errituetan ere gertatzen da
07:48
around important feelings.
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garrantzi handiko sentimenduen inguruan.
07:50
Take the Moon. It's really important to look at the Moon.
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Har dezagun Ilargia. Oso garrantzitsua da Ilargiari begiratzea.
07:53
You know, when you look at the Moon,
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Zeren, Ilargia begiratzen dugunean,
07:55
you think, "I'm really small. What are my problems?"
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pentsatzen dugu, "Ez gara ezer. Zein dira nire arazoak?"
07:57
It sets things into perspective, etc., etc.
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Gauzak perspektiban ikusten dira eta abar eta abar.
07:59
We should all look at the Moon a bit more often. We don't.
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Ilargiari maizago begiratu behar genioke. Baina ez dugu egiten.
08:01
Why don't we? Well there's nothing to tell us, "Look at the Moon."
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Zergatik? Ezerk ez digulako "Begira ezazu Ilargia" esaten.
08:04
But if you're a Zen Buddhist in the middle of September,
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Baina Zen budistak bagina irailaren erdian,
08:07
you will be ordered out of your home, made to stand on a canonical platform
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etxetik irtetera behartuta egongo ginake, plataforma kanoniko baten gainean
08:10
and made to celebrate the festival of Tsukimi,
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Tsukimi-ren jaialdia ospatzeko,
08:12
where you will be given poems to read
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zein poema irakurri esango digute
08:14
in honor of the Moon and the passage of time
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Ilargiaren eta denboraren iraganaren omenez
08:16
and the frailty of life that it should remind us of.
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eta bizitzaren hauskortasuna gogoan izan dezagun.
08:18
You'll be handed rice cakes.
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Arroz-opilak emango dizkigute.
08:20
And the Moon and the reflection on the Moon
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Eta ilargia eta ilargiari buruzko gogoetak
08:22
will have a secure place in your heart.
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zure bihotzean gordeko dira.
08:24
That's very good.
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Oso ondo dago hori.
08:26
The other thing that religions are really aware of
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Erlijioek oso ondo ikasia duten beste zerbait
08:28
is: speak well --
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ondo hitz egitea da --
08:30
I'm not doing a very good job of this here --
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lan kaskarra egiten ari naiz gaur --
08:32
but oratory, oratory is absolutely key to religions.
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baina hizlaritza, hizlaritza funtsezkoa da erlijioentzat.
08:35
In the secular world, you can come through the university system and be a lousy speaker
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Mundu sekularrean, Unibertsitatetik pasa zaitezke, hizlari kaxkarra izan
08:38
and still have a great career.
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eta halere, lanbide aparta eduki.
08:40
But the religious world doesn't think that way.
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Baina mundu erlijiosoak ez du horrela ikusten.
08:42
What you're saying needs to be backed up
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Dioguna babesten jakin behar dugu,
08:44
by a really convincing way of saying it.
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esateko modu sinesgarria erabiliz.
08:46
So if you go to an African-American Pentecostalist church
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Eliza afroamerikar pentekostal batera joko bagenu
08:48
in the American South
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Ameriketako hegoaldean
08:50
and you listen to how they talk,
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eta haiek hitz egiten entzungo bagenitu
08:52
my goodness, they talk well.
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bai Jauna, badakite hitz egiten!.
08:54
After every convincing point, people will go, "Amen, amen, amen."
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Esaldi sinesgarri bakoitzaren ostean, jendeak "Amen, amen, amen" erantzuten dute.
08:57
At the end of a really rousing paragraph, they'll all stand up,
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Eta paragrafo hunkigarri baten amaieran, zutitu egingo dira.
08:59
and they'll go, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Christ, thank you Savior."
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"Mila esker Jesus, mila esker Kristo, mila esker Salbatzailea,"
09:02
If we were doing it like they do it --
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Guk haien moduan egingo bagenu --
09:04
let's not do it, but if we were to do it --
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ez dezagun egin, baina egingo bagenu --
09:07
I would tell you something like, "Culture should replace scripture."
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Nik esango nuke, adibidez: "Kulturak eskriturak ordezkatu beharko lituzke."
09:09
And you would go, "Amen, amen, amen."
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Eta zuek erantzungo zenukete, "Amen, amen, amen."
09:11
And at the end of my talk, you would all stand up
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Eta nire hitzaldiaren amaieran, zutitu egingo zinatekete
09:13
and you would go, "Thank you Plato, thank you Shakespeare, thank you Jane Austen."
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esanez, "Mila esker, Platon; mila esker, Shakespeare; mila esker, Jane Austen."
09:15
And we'd know that we had a real rhythm going.
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Eta jakingo genuke erritmo on bat lortu dugula gure artean.
09:18
All right, all right. We're getting there. We're getting there.
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Ondo, ondo. Gerturatzen ari gara. Gerturatzen ari gara.
09:20
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
09:22
The other thing that religions know is we're not just brains,
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Erlijioek dakiten beste zerbait, adimena soilik ez garela da,
09:24
we are also bodies.
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gorputzak ere bagarela.
09:26
And when they teach us a lesson,
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Eta ikasgaia irakasten digutenean,
09:28
they do it via the body.
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gorputzaren bidez egiten dute.
09:30
So for example,
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Adibidez,
09:32
take the Jewish idea of forgiveness.
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har dezagun Judutarren barkamen ideia,
09:34
Jews are very interested in forgiveness
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Judutarrei asko interesatzen zaie barkamena
09:36
and how we should start anew and start afresh.
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eta berriro nola hasi eta garbi nola hasi.
09:38
They don't just deliver us sermons on this.
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Ez dizkigute sermoiak soilik ematen horri buruz.
09:40
They don't just give us books or words about this.
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Ez digute liburuak edo hitzak soilik ematen horri buruz.
09:42
They tell us to have a bath.
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Bainatzeko esaten digute.
09:44
So in Orthodox Jewish communities, every Friday you go to a Mikveh.
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Beraz, Judutar Ortodoxoen komunitateetan, ostiralero Mikveh batera joaten dira.
09:47
You immerse yourself in the water,
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Zure burua uran murgildu,
09:49
and a physical action backs up a philosophical idea.
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eta ekintza fiisikoak ideia filosofikoa indartzen du.
09:52
We don't tend to do that.
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Guk ez dugu horrelakorik egiten.
09:54
Our ideas are in one area and our behavior with our bodies is in another.
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Gure ideiak eremu batean ditugu eta gure gorputzen portaera beste batean.
09:57
Religions are fascinating in the way they try and combine the two.
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Erlijioak liluragarriak dira bi gauza hauek elkartzeko duten gaitasunagatik.
09:59
Let's look at art now.
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Azter dezagun artea jarraian.
10:01
Now art is something that in the secular world,
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Mundu sekularrean artea
10:04
we think very highly of. We think art is really, really important.
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guztiz estimagarria dela uste dugu. Oso, oso garrantzitsua dela.
10:07
A lot of our surplus wealth goes to museums, etc.
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Gure ondasunen soberakin asko museo eta abarretara doaz.
10:10
We sometimes hear it said
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Noizean behin entzuten dugu
10:12
that museums are our new cathedrals, or our new churches.
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museoak gure katedral edo eliza berriak direla.
10:15
You've heard that saying.
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Entzungo zenuten hori, ziur.
10:17
Now I think that the potential is there,
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Uste dut gaitasuna badutela,
10:19
but we've completely let ourselves down.
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baina geure buruari kale egin diogu zeharo.
10:21
And the reason we've let ourselves down
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Eta egoera horren arrazoia da
10:23
is that we're not properly studying
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ez dugula behar bezala aztertu
10:25
how religions handle art.
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erlijioek artea nola tratatzen duten.
10:29
The two really bad ideas that are hovering in the modern world
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Mundu modernoaren inguruan dabiltza bi ideia txarrenak
10:32
that inhibit our capacity to draw strength from art:
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eta artearen indarraz baliatzea eragozten digutenak:
10:36
The first idea is that art should be for art's sake --
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Lehena, arteak musu-truk izan behar lukeela da --
10:38
a ridiculous idea --
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benetan ideia barregarria --
10:40
an idea that art should live in a hermetic bubble
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arteak burbuila itxian bizi beharko lukeela
10:42
and should not try to do anything with this troubled world.
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eta ez lukeela ezer egin behar arazoz jositako mundu honekin.
10:45
I couldn't disagree more.
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Guztiz aurka nago.
10:47
The other thing that we believe is that art shouldn't explain itself,
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Sinesten dugun bigarren ideia da, arteak ez lukeela azalpenik eman behar,
10:50
that artists shouldn't say what they're up to,
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artistek ez luketela zer darabilten azaldu behar,
10:52
because if they said it, it might destroy the spell
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zeren, esango balute, lilura apur bailezake
10:54
and we might find it too easy.
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eta errazegia dela pentsa baigenezake.
10:56
That's why a very common feeling when you're in a museum --
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Horregatik, museo batean gaudenean oso sentimendu arrunta da --
10:58
let's admit it --
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onar dezagun --
11:00
is, "I don't know what this is about."
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"Ez dakit hau zeri buruz den"
11:02
But if we're serious people, we don't admit to that.
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Baina oso pertsona serioak bagara, ez dugu inoiz onartuko.
11:04
But that feeling of puzzlement is structural
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Baina harridura sentsazio hori guztiz oinarrizkoa da
11:07
to contemporary art.
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arte garaikidearekin.
11:10
Now religions have a much saner attitude to art.
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Erlijioek artearekin erlazio sanoagoa daukate.
11:12
They have no trouble telling us what art is about.
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Ez daukate arazorik artea zertaz den adierazteko.
11:14
Art is about two things in all the major faiths.
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Fede nagusietan arteak bi gauzekin du zerikusia.
11:16
Firstly, it's trying to remind you
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Lehenenik eta behin, saiatzen da gogorarazten
11:18
of what there is to love.
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zer maitatu dezakegun.
11:20
And secondly, it's trying to remind you
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Eta bigarrenik, saiatzen da gogorarazten
11:22
of what there is to fear and to hate.
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zeri beldur edo gorroto izan behar geniokeen.
11:24
And that's what art is.
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Horixe da artea.
11:26
Art is a visceral encounter with the most important ideas of your faith.
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Artea gure sinesmen nagusienekin barne topaketa bat da
11:29
So as you walk around a church,
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Beraz, eliza baten barnean gabiltzenean
11:31
or a mosque or a cathedral,
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edo mezkita batean edo katedral batean,
11:33
what you're trying to imbibe, what you're imbibing is,
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surgatzen ari gara, nahita edo nahi gabe,
11:35
through your eyes, through your senses,
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begietatik eta zentzumen guztietatik barneratuz
11:37
truths that have otherwise come to you through your mind.
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bestela adimenaren bidez jaso ditugun egia horiek.
11:39
Essentially it's propaganda.
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Funtsean, propaganda da.
11:41
Rembrandt is a propagandist
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Rembrandt propagandista bat da
11:43
in the Christian view.
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Kirstautasunaren ikuspegitik.
11:45
Now the word "propaganda" sets off alarm bells.
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Baina "propaganda" hitzak urduritzen gaitu.
11:47
We think of Hitler, we think of Stalin. Don't, necessarily.
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Hitler, Stalin gogorarazten digu. Ez derrigorrean.
11:49
Propaganda is a manner of being didactic in honor of something.
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Propaganda zerbaiten izenean didaktikoa izateko modu bat da.
11:52
And if that thing is good, there's no problem with it at all.
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Eta zerbait hori ona bada, ez dago arazorik propagandarekin.
11:55
My view is that museums should take a leaf out of the book of religions.
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Uste dut museoek erlijio-liburuetatik ikasgaia hau hartu behar dutela.
11:59
And they should make sure that when you walk into a museum --
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Ziurtatu behar lukete, museo batera sartzen garenean –
12:01
if I was a museum curator,
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museo arduraduna banintz,
12:03
I would make a room for love, a room for generosity.
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gela bat maitasunarentzat egingo nuke, bestea eskuzabaltasunarentzat.
12:06
All works of art are talking to us about things.
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Artelan guztiek zerbaiti buruz hitz egiten digute,
12:08
And if we were able to arrange spaces
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Eta espazioak antolatu ahal izango bagenitu
12:10
where we could come across works
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non artelanak aurki ditzakegun,
12:12
where we would be told, use these works of art
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non artelan horien bidez ikasgaiak jaso ditzakegun,
12:14
to cement these ideas in your mind,
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gure adimenean ideia horiek finkatzeko,
12:16
we would get a lot more out of art.
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artetik probetxu gehiago aterako genuke.
12:18
Art would pick up the duty that it used to have
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Arteak bete ohi zuen funtzioa berreskuratuko luke
12:21
and that we've neglected because of certain mis-founded ideas.
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hots, oinarri eskaseko ideia batzuengatik baztertu dugun funtzio bat.
12:24
Art should be one of the tools
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Arteak gizartea hobetzeko erremintetako bat
12:26
by which we improve our society.
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izan behar luke.
12:28
Art should be didactic.
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Arteak didaktikoa izan behar luke.
12:31
Let's think of something else.
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Azter dezagun beste gai bat.
12:33
The people in the modern world, in the secular world,
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Mundu modernoan, gure mundu sekularrean,
12:35
who are interested in matters of the spirit,
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espiritu gaietan interesa duten pertsonak,
12:37
in matters of the mind,
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adimenaren gaietan,
12:39
in higher soul-like concerns,
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arima moduko gai gorenetan,
12:42
tend to be isolated individuals.
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pertsona bakartiak izan ohi dira.
12:44
They're poets, they're philosophers, they're photographers, they're filmmakers.
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Poetak, filosofoak, argazkilariak, zinemagileak dira.
12:47
And they tend to be on their own.
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Eta bakarrik ibiltzeko joera dute.
12:49
They're our cottage industries. They are vulnerable, single people.
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Artisau-industriak dira. Pertsona sentiberak eta bakanak dira.
12:52
And they get depressed and they get sad on their own.
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Eta erraz deprimitzen eta goibeltzen dira beren kasa.
12:54
And they don't really change much.
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Eta ez dute ezer askorik aldatzen.
12:56
Now think about religions, think about organized religions.
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Orain, pentsa dezagun erlijio antolatuetan.
12:58
What do organized religions do?
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Zer egiten dute erlijio antolatuek?
13:00
They group together, they form institutions.
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Taldeak sortzen dituzte, instituzioak sortzen dituzte.
13:03
And that has all sorts of advantages.
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Eta horrek mota askotako abaintalak ditu.
13:05
First of all, scale, might.
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Lehenik eta behin, eskala, indarra.
13:08
The Catholic Church pulled in 97 billion dollars last year
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Eliza katolikoak US$ 97.000 milioi eskuratu zituen iaz
13:11
according to the Wall Street Journal.
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Wall Street Journal egunkariaren arabera.
13:13
These are massive machines.
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Makina erraldoiak dira.
13:15
They're collaborative, they're branded, they're multinational,
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Elkarrekin lan egiten dute, multinazionalak dira, marka dute
13:18
and they're highly disciplined.
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eta oso diziplinatuak dira.
13:20
These are all very good qualities.
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Oso ezaugarri onak dira horiek.
13:22
We recognize them in relation to corporations.
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Enpresekin lotuta ezagutzen ditugun ezaugarriak.
13:24
And corporations are very like religions in many ways,
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Eta enpresek erlijioekin antzekotasuna ere badute
13:26
except they're right down at the bottom of the pyramid of needs.
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nahiz eta beharren piramidearen oinarrian dauden.
13:28
They're selling us shoes and cars.
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Zapatak eta kotxeak saltzen dizkigute.
13:30
Whereas the people who are selling us the higher stuff --
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Gai gorenak saltzen dizkigun jendea –
13:32
the therapists, the poets --
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terapeutak, poetak –
13:34
are on their own and they have no power,
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bakarrik eta botererik gabe dauden bitartean,
13:36
they have no might.
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ez daukate indarrik.
13:38
So religions are the foremost example
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Beraz, erligioak dira adimenaren gaien alde
13:41
of an institution that is fighting for the things of the mind.
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borrokatzen duen instituzio baten adibiderik onena.
13:44
Now we may not agree with what religions are trying to teach us,
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Agian ez gatoz bat irakatsi nahi digutenarekin,
13:47
but we can admire the institutional way
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baina euren lanerako modu instituzionala
13:49
in which they're doing it.
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goretsi dezakegu.
13:51
Books alone, books written by lone individuals,
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Liburuek bakarrik, pertsona bakartiek idatzitako liburuek,
13:54
are not going to change anything.
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ez dute gauza askorik aldatuko.
13:56
We need to group together.
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Bildu egin behar dugu.
13:58
If you want to change the world, you have to group together, you have to be collaborative.
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Mundua aldatu nahi badugu, bildu eta elkarrekin lan behar dugu.
14:01
And that's what religions do.
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Horrela egiten dute erlijioek.
14:03
They are multinational, as I say,
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Multinazionalak dira, lehen aipatu dudan bezala,
14:05
they are branded, they have a clear identity,
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marka eta nortasun argia dituzte,
14:08
so they don't get lost in a busy world.
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eta ez dira saturatutako mundu honetan galtzen.
14:10
That's something we can learn from.
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Hori ikasi behar genuke.
14:12
I want to conclude.
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Amaitu nahi nuke.
14:14
Really what I want to say
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Benetan esan nahi dudana
14:16
is for many of you who are operating in a range of different fields,
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esparru anitzetan lanean zabiltzatenontzat da,
14:19
there is something to learn from the example of religion --
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erlijioen adibidetik zerbait ikas daitekeela –
14:22
even if you don't believe any of it.
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esaten duten ezer sinetsi ez arren.
14:25
If you're involved in anything that's communal,
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Auzolan moduke zerbaitetan aritzen bazarete,
14:27
that involves lots of people getting together,
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jende askorekin elkarlanean aritzen bazarete,
14:29
there are things for you in religion.
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erlijian gauza erabilgarriak aurki ditzakezue.
14:31
If you're involved, say, in a travel industry in any way,
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Adibidez, bidaia-industrian aritzen bazarete,
14:34
look at pilgrimage.
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begira iezaiozue erromesaldiei.
14:36
Look very closely at pilgrimage.
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Begiratu arretaz erromesaldiak.
14:38
We haven't begun to scratch the surface
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Bidaia izan daitekeenaren gainazala
14:40
of what travel could be
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urratu besterik ez dugu egin
14:42
because we haven't looked at what religions do with travel.
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erlijioek bidaiekin zer egin duten ez dugulako aztertu.
14:44
If you're in the art world,
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Artearen munduan aritzen bazarete
14:46
look at the example of what religions are doing with art.
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begira ezazue erlijioen adibidea artean.
14:48
And if you're an educator in any way,
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Eta nolabaiteko hezitzaileak bazarete
14:51
again, look at how religions are spreading ideas.
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berdin, begira ezazue erlijioek nola hedatzen dituzten sinesmenak.
14:54
You may not agree with the ideas,
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Agian ez zarete ideiekin ados egongo
14:56
but my goodness, they're highly effective mechanisms for doing so.
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baina, bai Jauna, oso mekanismo erangikorrak dira.
14:59
So really my concluding point
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Beraz, nire azken puntua da
15:01
is you may not agree with religion,
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agian gatoz erlijioekin bat,
15:03
but at the end of the day,
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baina azken finean,
15:05
religions are so subtle, so complicated,
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erlijioak hain dira zuhur eta konplexuak
15:07
so intelligent in many ways
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hain dira burutsuak arlo askotan,
15:09
that they're not fit to be abandoned to the religious alone;
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ez liratekela erlijiosoen eskuetan soilik utzi behar;
15:12
they're for all of us.
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baliagarriak dira guztiontzat.
15:14
Thank you very much.
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Mila esker.
15:16
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
15:33
Chris Anderson: Now this is actually a courageous talk,
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Chris Anderson: Beno, hau solasaldi ausarta da benetan,
15:35
because you're kind of setting up yourself in some ways
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zeren, nolabait zure burua agerian uzten ari zara
15:37
to be ridiculed in some quarters.
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zenbait lekutan barregarri jar zaitzaten arriskuan.
15:39
AB: You can get shot by both sides.
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AB: Bi aldeetatik jo zaitzakete.
15:41
You can get shot by the hard-headed atheists,
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Ateo amorratuek jo zaitzakete
15:43
and you can get shot by those who fully believe.
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baita sinesle amorratuek ere.
15:46
CA: Incoming missiles from North Oxford at any moment.
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CA: Berehala Oxford Iparraldetik misilak ailegatuko dira.
15:48
AB: Indeed.
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AB: Horrela da, bai.
15:50
CA: But you left out one aspect of religion
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CA: Baina bada erlijioaren aspektu bat saihestu duzuna
15:53
that a lot of people might say
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eta, jende askok esango du agian
15:55
your agenda could borrow from,
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zure diskurtsoak gehitu zenezakela,
15:57
which is this sense --
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hau da, zentzu hori –
15:59
that's actually probably the most important thing to anyone who's religious --
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baliteke sinesdun batentzako garrantzitsuena izatea –
16:01
of spiritual experience,
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esperientzia esperitual baten zentzua,
16:03
of some kind of connection
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norbera baino handiagoa den
16:05
with something that's bigger than you are.
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zerbaitekin konexio moduko bat.
16:07
Is there any room for that experience in Atheism 2.0?
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Ba al da lekurik Ateismo 2.0-an esperientzia horietarako?
16:10
AB: Absolutely. I, like many of you, meet people
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AB: Noski baietz. Nik, zuetako asko bezala, topatu naiz
16:13
who say things like, "But isn't there something bigger than us,
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honen moduko zerbait diotenekin, "Ez al da gu baino handiago den zerbait,
16:16
something else?"
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beste zerbait?"
16:18
And I say, "Of course." And they say, "So aren't you sort of religious?"
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Nere erantzuna, "Bai noski". Eta beraiek orduan, "Beraz, ez al zara zu ere erlijiosoa?"
16:21
And I go, "No." Why does that sense of mystery,
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Orduan, nik, "Ez". Zergatik da misterio sentsazio hori,
16:24
that sense of the dizzying scale of the universe,
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unibertsoaren eskala zorabiagarri hori sentitzea,
16:27
need to be accompanied by a mystical feeling?
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zentzu mistiko batekin uztartuta aurkeztu beharra?
16:30
Science and just observation
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Zientziak eta behaketa soilak
16:32
gives us that feeling without it,
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sentsazio hori eragiten digute mistikotasunik gabe
16:34
so I don't feel the need.
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beraz, ez dut beharrik sentitzen.
16:36
The universe is large and we are tiny,
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Unibertsoa erraldoia da eta guk txiki-txikiak,
16:38
without the need for further religious superstructure.
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ez da superestruktura erlijiosoen beharrik hortaz jabetzeko.
16:42
So one can have so-called spiritual moments
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Batek "momentu espiritualak" izan ditzake
16:44
without belief in the spirit.
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espirituan sinetsi gabe.
16:46
CA: Actually, let me just ask a question.
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CA: Galdera bat egin nahi nizuke.
16:48
How many people here would say
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Zure ustez hemengo zenbatentzat
16:50
that religion is important to them?
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da erlijioa garrantzi handikoa?
16:54
Is there an equivalent process
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Ba al da jorratu duzun gaia eta
16:57
by which there's a sort of bridge
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haiei esango zeniekearen artean
16:59
between what you're talking about and what you would say to them?
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zubitzat egin dezaken prozesu baliokederen bat?
17:02
AB: I would say that there are many, many gaps in secular life
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AB: Bizitza sekularrean hutsune ugari daudela esango nuke
17:04
and these can be plugged.
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baina bete daitezke.
17:06
It's not as though, as I try to suggest,
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Nik helarazi nahi nukeena da, ez dela
17:08
it's not as though either you have religion
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erlijioan barneratzen denak
17:10
and then you have to accept all sorts of things,
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bertako gauza guztiak onartu behar dituela,
17:12
or you don't have religion
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edo erlijiorik ez duenak
17:14
and then you're cut off from all these very good things.
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gauza on guzti horiek gabe geratzen denik.
17:17
It's so sad that we constantly say,
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Tristea da eten gabe dioguna,
17:20
"I don't believe so I can't have community,
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"Ez dut sinesten, beraz, ezin dut komunitaterik izan,
17:22
so I'm cut off from morality,
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beraz, moraltasunetik kanpo nago,
17:24
so I can't go on a pilgrimage."
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eta ez naiteke erromesaldi batera joan ".
17:26
One wants to say, "Nonsense. Why not?"
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Erantzun nahiko nieke, "Txorakeriak. Zergatik ez?"
17:28
And that's really the spirit of my talk.
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Horixe da nire hitzaldiaren zentzua.
17:30
There's so much we can absorb.
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Gauza asko guregana ditzakegu.
17:32
Atheism shouldn't cut itself off from the rich sources of religion.
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Ateismoak ez dio erlijioaren iturri oparoei uko egin behar.
17:35
CA: It seems to me that there's plenty of people in the TED community
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CA: Iruditzen zait, TED komunitatean jende asko dagoela
17:38
who are atheists.
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ateo direnak.
17:40
But probably most people in the community
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Baina ziurrenik komunitateko gehienek ez dute uste
17:42
certainly don't think that religion is going away any time soon
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erlijioak epe laburrean desagertuko direnik
17:45
and want to find the language
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eta hizketa konstruktibo bat izateko
17:47
to have a constructive dialogue
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hizkuntza aurkitu nahiko dute
17:50
and to feel like we can actually talk to each other
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elkarrekin hitz egin ahal izateko gai garela sentitzeko
17:52
and at least share some things in common.
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eta gutxienez zenbait gauza elkarbanatzeko.
17:54
Are we foolish to be optimistic
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Inozoak al gara modu baikorrean ikusten dugunok
17:56
about the possibility of a world
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badela aukerarik, mundu batentzat
17:58
where, instead of religion being the great rallying cry
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non, erlijioa zaiketa eta gatazken guda-ohiua izan ordez
18:01
of divide and war,
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zubi moduko bat
18:03
that there could be bridging?
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izan daitekeen?
18:05
AB: No, we need to be polite about differences.
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AB: Ez, desberdintasunekiko adeitsu izan behar dugu.
18:08
Politeness is a much-overlooked virtue.
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Adeitasuna aintzakotzat hartzen ez den birtutea da.
18:10
It's seen as hypocrisy.
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Batzuek hipokrisia deitzen dute.
18:12
But we need to get to a stage when you're an atheist
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Baina iritsi beharko da unea, ateoa den norbaiti
18:14
and someone says, "Well you know, I did pray the other day,"
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beste batek "Aizu, lehengoan otoitz egin nuen" esaten dionean
18:17
you politely ignore it.
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ateoak adeitasunez ez entzuna egin
18:19
You move on.
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eta aurrera egin dezakeena.
18:21
Because you've agreed on 90 percent of things,
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Ideien %90a partekatzen dugulako,
18:24
because you have a shared view on so many things,
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ikuspuntu bera daukagulako gai askotan,
18:26
and you politely differ.
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eta adeitasunez, beste modu batera pentsatzen dugu.
18:28
And I think that's what the religious wars of late have ignored.
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Uste dut azkenaldiko guda erlijiosoek hori ez dutela ikusi.
18:32
They've ignored the possibility of harmonious disagreement.
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Ez dute ikusten jakin, desadostasun armoniko baten aukera.
18:36
CA: And finally, does this new thing that you're proposing
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CA: Amaitzeko, proposatutako gauza berri honek,
18:38
that's not a religion but something else,
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erlijioa ez dena baizik beste zerbait dena,
18:40
does it need a leader,
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buruzagia behar al du?
18:42
and are you volunteering to be the pope?
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eta zeure burua "aita santu" izateko eskaintzen ari al zara?
18:44
(Laughter)
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(Algarak)
18:46
AB: Well, one thing that we're all very suspicious of
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AB: Beno, mesfidantza sortzen digun zerbait bada
18:48
is individual leaders.
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banakakoen buruzagiak dira.
18:50
It doesn't need it.
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Honek ez du beharrik.
18:52
What I've tried to lay out is a framework
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Estruktura aurkezten ahalegindu naiz
18:54
and I'm hoping that people can just fill it in.
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eta espero dut jendeak beteko duela.
18:57
I've sketched a sort of broad framework.
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Estruktura orokor baten zirriborroa egin dut.
18:59
But wherever you are, as I say, if you're in the travel industry, do that travel bit.
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Baina, esan bezala, zuen eremua dena dela ere, bidaiagintzan diharduenak, egin dezala bidaien zati hori.
19:02
If you're in the communal industry, look at religion and do the communal bit.
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Auzolangintzan dabilenak, begira dezala erlijioa eta egin dezala auzolanaren zatia.
19:05
So it's a wiki project.
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Beraz, wiki proiektu bat da.
19:07
(Laughter)
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(Algarak)
19:09
CA: Alain, thank you for sparking many conversations later.
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CA: Alain, mila esker etorriko diren solasaldi ugariak piztu izanagatik.
19:12
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alain de Botton - PhilosopherThrough his witty and literate books -- and his new School of Life -- Alain de Botton helps others find fulfillment in the everyday.
Why you should listen
It started in 1997, when Alain de Botton turned away from writing novels and instead wrote a touching extended essay titled How Proust Can Change Your Life, which became an unlikely blockbuster in the "self-help"category. His subsequent books take on some of the fundamental worries of modern life (am I happy? where exactly do I stand?), informed by his deep reading in philosophy and by a novelist's eye for small, perfect moments. His newest book is The Pleasures and Sorrows of Work.
In 2008, de Botton helped start the School of Life in London, a social enterprise determined to make learning and therapy relevant in today's uptight culture. His goal is (through any of his mediums) to help clients learn "how to live wisely and well."
Alain de Botton | Speaker | TED.com