TEDxPlaceDesNations
Vincent Cochetel: I was held hostage for 317 days. Here's what I thought about…
文森特·科舍泰爾: 我被綁架囚禁長達317日。我當時的所感所想……
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1998年，聯合國難民署官員文森特·科舍泰爾在車臣被綁架囚禁長達317日。他首次回憶講述此經歷——生活在一個伸手不見五指的地窖裡、被鐵鍊鎖在床架上，與綁匪進行的意想不到的對話等。演講抒情而有力，他解釋了為何今日他仍繼續工作。自2000年，對人道主義援助工作者的襲擊增加到三倍——他猜測襲擊數目的上升對世界有何影響。
Vincent Cochetel - Humanitarian
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Full bio
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I cannot forget them.
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這些人，我一個也忘不了。
00:15
Their names were Aslan, Alik, Andrei,
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他們的名字是：Aslan、Alik、Andrei
00:20
Fernanda, Fred, Galina, Gunnhild,
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Fernanda、Fred、Galina、Gunnhild
00:25
Hans, Ingeborg, Matti, Natalya,
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Hans、Ingeborg、Matti、Natalya
00:30
Nancy, Sheryl, Usman, Zarema,
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Nancy、Sheryl、Usman、Zarema
00:35
and the list is longer.
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死亡名單還更長。
00:38
For many, their existence,
their humanity,
their humanity,
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對於他們當中許多人來說，
00:41
has been reduced to statistics,
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他們的存在、人性被簡化成數據，
00:45
coldly recorded as "security incidents."
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被冷漠地記錄成「安全事故」。
00:49
For me, they were colleagues
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對於我來說，他們是同僚，
00:51
belonging to that community
of humanitarian aid workers
of humanitarian aid workers
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共屬人道援助工作者的社群，
00:54
that tried to bring a bit of comfort
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共同竭力為90年代車臣戰爭的受害者
00:57
to the victims of the wars
in Chechnya in the '90s.
in Chechnya in the '90s.
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帶來一點安樂。
01:01
They were nurses, logisticians,
shelter experts,
shelter experts,
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這些人是護士、後勤人員、庇護專家、
01:06
paralegals, interpreters.
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律師助理、翻譯人員。
01:08
And for this service, they were murdered,
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而正因他們提供的服務，
他們被謀殺了。
他們被謀殺了。
01:13
their families torn apart,
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他們的家人難過心碎，
01:15
and their story largely forgotten.
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但他們的故事卻被大大忘卻。
01:18
No one was ever sentenced
for these crimes.
for these crimes.
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沒有人因此而被判罪。
01:22
I cannot forget them.
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他們，我一個都不能忘。
01:25
They live in me somehow,
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某程度上，他們與我同活。
01:27
their memories giving me
meaning every day.
meaning every day.
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關於他們的記憶賦予我每天生存的意義。
01:30
But they are also haunting
the dark street of my mind.
the dark street of my mind.
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但他們也縈繞在我心中的黑暗街道。
01:34
As humanitarian aid workers,
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作為人道主義援助工作者，
01:36
they made the choice
to be at the side of the victim,
to be at the side of the victim,
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他們選擇站在受害者的一邊，
01:40
to provide some assistance,
some comfort, some protection,
some comfort, some protection,
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提供力所能及的幫助、安樂、保護，
01:44
but when they needed
protection themselves,
protection themselves,
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但是當他們自己需要保護時，
01:47
it wasn't there.
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卻無法被保護。
01:49
When you see the headlines
of your newspaper these days
of your newspaper these days
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時至今日，當你在看報紙頭條，
01:52
with the war in Iraq or in Syria --
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看見伊拉克、敘利亞在打仗的同時，
01:55
aid worker abducted, hostage executed --
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也看到援助工作者被綁架、人質被處決，
02:00
but who were they?
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但是他們是誰？
02:02
Why were they there?
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為什麼他們會在那裡？
02:04
What motivated them?
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為什麼他們決定到那裡去？
02:06
How did we become
so indifferent to these crimes?
so indifferent to these crimes?
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面對這些犯罪，
我們怎麼變得如此冷漠？
我們怎麼變得如此冷漠？
02:09
This is why I am here today with you.
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這就是我今天來到這裡的原因。
02:13
We need to find better ways
to remember them.
to remember them.
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我們需要尋找更好的方式
去銘記這些受害者。
去銘記這些受害者。
02:16
We also need to explain the key values
to which they dedicated their lives.
to which they dedicated their lives.
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我們需要闡釋他們犧牲奉獻的關鍵理念。
02:22
We also need to demand justice.
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我們亦需要尋求正義。
02:28
When in '96 I was sent
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1996年，
02:29
by the United Nations High Commissioner
for Refugees to the North Caucasus,
for Refugees to the North Caucasus,
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我受命於聯合國難民署
前往北高加索執行任務時，
前往北高加索執行任務時，
02:33
I knew some of the risks.
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我就知道其中的一些風險。
02:35
Five colleagues had been killed,
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五位同僚遭殺害，
02:37
three had been seriously injured,
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三名同僚受重傷，
02:39
seven had already been taken hostage.
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七位同僚已被綁架做人質。
02:42
So we were careful.
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因此當時我們很小心。
02:44
We were using armored
vehicles, decoy cars,
vehicles, decoy cars,
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當時我們使用裝甲車、誘餌車，
02:48
changing patterns of travel,
changing homes,
changing homes,
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變換出行模式、切換居所，
02:51
all sorts of security measures.
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還有其它多種安全措施。
02:55
Yet on a cold winter night
of January '98, it was my turn.
of January '98, it was my turn.
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但是1998年1月的一個寒冷的冬夜，
還是輪到我了。
還是輪到我了。
03:01
When I entered my flat
in Vladikavkaz with a guard,
in Vladikavkaz with a guard,
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我和我的守衛走進
在弗拉季高加索的住所時，
在弗拉季高加索的住所時，
03:05
we were surrounded by armed men.
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被一群武裝人員包圍了。
03:08
They took the guard,
they put him on the floor,
they put him on the floor,
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他們拿下了守衛，
把他打倒在地，
把他打倒在地，
03:10
they beat him up in front of me,
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他們在我面前暴打他
03:13
tied him, dragged him away.
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捆住他、拖走了他。
03:17
I was handcuffed, blindfolded,
and forced to kneel,
and forced to kneel,
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我雙手被銬，雙眼被蒙，被迫下跪，
03:22
as the silencer of a gun
pressed against my neck.
pressed against my neck.
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手槍的消聲器始終抵住我的咽喉。
03:26
When it happens to you,
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這樣的事情發生在你身上，
03:27
there is no time for thinking,
no time for praying.
no time for praying.
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你不會有時間去思考、禱告。
03:32
My brain went on automatic,
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我的大腦自動開始運作，
03:34
rewinding quickly
the life I'd just left behind.
the life I'd just left behind.
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快速回想我過去所經歷的人生。
03:39
It took me long minutes to figure out
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花了很長時間，我才發現
03:41
that those masked men there
were not there to kill me,
were not there to kill me,
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這群蒙面男子不是來殺我的，
03:45
but that someone, somewhere,
had ordered my kidnapping.
had ordered my kidnapping.
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但是受人指使來綁架我。
03:50
Then a process of dehumanization
started that day.
started that day.
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之後，一系列泯滅人性的行為
從那天開始了。
從那天開始了。
03:54
I was no more than just a commodity.
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我變成了一件商品。
04:01
I normally don't talk about this,
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一般我不談這些，
04:03
but I'd like to share a bit with you
some of those 317 days of captivity.
some of those 317 days of captivity.
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但今天我想與在座各位
分享被綁架317天的一些點滴。
分享被綁架317天的一些點滴。
04:08
I was kept in an underground cellar,
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我被囚禁在一個地窖裡，
04:11
total darkness,
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伸手不見五指，
04:13
for 23 hours and 45 minutes every day,
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如此渡過每日的23小時45分鐘，
04:17
and then the guards
would come, normally two.
would come, normally two.
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然後看守就會過來，一般有兩個。
04:20
They would bring a big piece of bread,
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他們會帶一大塊麵包，
04:23
a bowl of soup, and a candle.
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還有一碗湯和一支蠟燭，
04:27
That candle would burn for 15 minutes,
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蠟燭會燒15分鐘，
04:31
15 minutes of precious light,
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珍貴的15分鐘光明，
04:35
and then they would take it away,
and I returned to darkness.
and I returned to darkness.
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然後他們會把東西都拿走，
而我又重返黑暗。
而我又重返黑暗。
04:41
I was chained by a metal cable to my bed.
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我被鐵鍊鎖在床架上。
04:44
I could do only four small steps.
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活動範圍只有四小步。
04:48
I always dreamt of the fifth one.
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我經常渴望能走到第五步。
04:52
And no TV, no radio,
no newspaper, no one to talk to.
no newspaper, no one to talk to.
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沒有電視、沒有廣播、
沒有報紙、沒有談話對象。
沒有報紙、沒有談話對象。
04:56
I had no towel, no soap, no toilet paper,
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沒有毛巾、沒有肥皂、沒有廁紙
05:01
just two metal buckets open,
one for water, for one waste.
one for water, for one waste.
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只有兩個敞口鐵桶，
一個儲水，一個儲排泄物。
一個儲水，一個儲排泄物。
05:09
Can you imagine that mock execution
can be a pastime for guards
can be a pastime for guards
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你能想像嗎？
模擬處決可以是守衛的消遣，
模擬處決可以是守衛的消遣，
05:14
when they are sadistic
or when they are just bored or drunk?
or when they are just bored or drunk?
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要是看守是虐待狂，
或者只是無聊、喝醉酒。
或者只是無聊、喝醉酒。
05:21
We are breaking my nerves very slowly.
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我的耐力緩慢地被消磨。
05:25
Isolation and darkness
are particularly difficult to describe.
are particularly difficult to describe.
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隔離和黑暗最難以形容。
05:29
How do you describe nothing?
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你要怎樣描述空無？
05:31
There are no words for the depths
of loneliness I reached
of loneliness I reached
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言語不能表達
我當時所感受到的深切孤獨，
我當時所感受到的深切孤獨，
05:34
in that very thin border
between sanity and madness.
between sanity and madness.
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徘徊在理智與瘋狂的邊界線上。
05:42
In the darkness, sometimes
I played imaginary games of checkers.
I played imaginary games of checkers.
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在黑暗當中，有時我會玩假想的跳棋。
05:47
I would start with the black,
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我會先下黑子，
05:49
play with the white,
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然後下白子，
05:51
back to the black
trying to trick the other side.
trying to trick the other side.
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然後再到黑子，
不斷嘗試贏另一方。
不斷嘗試贏另一方。
05:55
I don't play checkers anymore.
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現在我不玩跳棋了。
05:58
I was tormented by the thoughts of my
family and my colleague, the guard, Edik.
family and my colleague, the guard, Edik.
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一想到家人、同僚、我的守衛Edik，
我內心就飽受煎熬。
我內心就飽受煎熬。
06:05
I didn't know what had happened to him.
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我不知道他怎麼樣了。
06:07
I was trying not to think,
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我嘗試避免思考，
06:10
I tried to fill up my time
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同時又嘗試填補時間，
06:11
by doing all sorts of physical
exercise on the spot.
exercise on the spot.
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在原地做不同的體能運動。
06:15
I tried to pray, I tried all sorts
of memorization games.
of memorization games.
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我嘗試祈禱、嘗試了各種記憶遊戲。
06:21
But darkness also creates images
and thoughts that are not normal.
and thoughts that are not normal.
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但黑暗也會創造不平常的影像和想法。
06:25
One part of your brain wants you
to resist, to shout, to cry,
to resist, to shout, to cry,
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大腦的一邊想讓你反抗、嘶吼、哭泣，
06:31
and the other part of the brain
orders you to shut up
orders you to shut up
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另一邊卻命令你閉嘴，
06:35
and just go through it.
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默默忍受這一切。
06:37
It's a constant internal debate;
there is no one to arbitrate.
there is no one to arbitrate.
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這是無休止的內心辯論；
沒有人來做最終的裁決。
沒有人來做最終的裁決。
06:43
Once a guard came to me,
very aggressively, and he told me,
very aggressively, and he told me,
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有一次，一名看守氣勢洶洶地走過來，
告訴我，
告訴我，
06:48
"Today you're going to kneel
and beg for your food."
and beg for your food."
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「今天要吃的，
你就得向我下跪乞求。」
你就得向我下跪乞求。」
06:52
I wasn't in a good mood,
so I insulted him.
so I insulted him.
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當時我的心情不好，所以就罵他。
06:55
I insulted his mother,
I insulted his ancestors.
I insulted his ancestors.
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我詛咒了他媽媽、他的祖宗。
06:58
The consequence was moderate:
he threw the food into my waste.
he threw the food into my waste.
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結果比較溫和：
他將食物扔進了裝排泄物的桶。
他將食物扔進了裝排泄物的桶。
07:03
The day after he came back
with the same demand.
with the same demand.
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第二天他還是同樣的要求。
07:06
He got the same answer,
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也得到了同樣的答案，
07:09
which had the same consequence.
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食物的下場也是一樣。
07:13
Four days later,
the body was full of pain.
the body was full of pain.
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四天之後，我的身體無處不痛。
07:17
I didn't know hunger hurt so much
when you have so little.
when you have so little.
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我從前不知道，明明已經一無所有，
飢餓竟然可以讓人如此痛苦。
飢餓竟然可以讓人如此痛苦。
07:21
So when the guards came down,
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所以，守衛過來的時候，
07:28
I knelt.
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我下跪了。
07:31
I begged for my food.
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我乞求食物。
07:34
Submission was the only way for me
to make it to another candle.
to make it to another candle.
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屈服是獲得另一支蠟燭的唯一辦法。
07:41
After my kidnapping,
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被綁架之後，
07:43
I was transferred
from North Ossetia to Chechnya,
from North Ossetia to Chechnya,
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我從北奧賽梯，被運到車臣，
07:46
three days of slow travel
in the trunks of different cars,
in the trunks of different cars,
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漫漫的三天路程，
我被困在不同的車尾箱裡，
我被困在不同的車尾箱裡，
07:50
and upon arrival, I was interrogated
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一到達，我就被審問，
07:52
for 11 days by a guy called Ruslan.
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一個叫鲁斯兰的人，
審問了我11天。
審問了我11天。
07:56
The routine was always the same:
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審問方法總是一樣的：
07:58
a bit more light, 45 minutes.
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光明延長到45分鐘。
08:00
He would come down to the cellar,
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他來到地窖，
08:02
he would ask the guards
to tie me on the chair,
to tie me on the chair,
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讓看守把我綁在椅子上，
08:05
and he would turn on the music loud.
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然後把音樂放得很大聲。
08:08
And then he would yell questions.
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然後，他大聲喊著提問。
08:11
He would scream. He would beat me.
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他尖叫，還毆打我。
08:14
I'll spare you the details.
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細節我就不提了。
08:16
There are many questions
I could not understand,
I could not understand,
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審問的問題有很多我都不懂，
08:18
and there are some questions
I did not want to understand.
I did not want to understand.
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也有一些是我不願意懂。
08:24
The length of the interrogation
was the duration of the tape:
was the duration of the tape:
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審問的時長是帶子的時長：
08:28
15 songs, 45 minutes.
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15首歌，45分鐘。
08:31
I would always long for the last song.
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我總是盼著快點播到最後一首。
08:34
On one day, one night in that cellar,
I don't know what it was,
I don't know what it was,
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有一天，不知道是白天還是夜晚，
08:38
I heard a child crying above my head,
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我聽到頭頂有一個小孩在哭，
08:41
a boy, maybe two or three years old.
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是個小男孩，也許兩歲或者三歲。
08:44
Footsteps, confusion, people running.
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（我聽到）腳步聲、一些混亂，還有人奔跑。
08:48
So when Ruslan came the day after,
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鲁斯兰第二天過來，
08:51
before he put the first question to me,
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2469
在他問第一個問題之前，
08:54
I asked him, "How is your son today?
Is he feeling better?"
Is he feeling better?"
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我問他「你兒子今天怎樣了？
他好點了嗎？」
他好點了嗎？」
08:57
Ruslan was taken by surprise.
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鲁斯兰吃了一驚。
09:00
He was furious that the guards
may have leaked some details
may have leaked some details
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2829
他非常生氣，以為這裡的看守
把他的私人生活告訴我了。
把他的私人生活告訴我了。
09:03
about his private life.
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他非常生氣，以為這裡的守衛
把他的私人生活告訴我了。
把他的私人生活告訴我了。
09:06
I kept talking about NGOs
supplying medicines to local clinics
supplying medicines to local clinics
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我一直說，向本地診所
提供藥物的非政府組織
提供藥物的非政府組織
09:10
that may help his son to get better.
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可能會幫他兒子恢復健康。
09:13
And we talked about education,
we talked about families.
we talked about families.
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然後我們談教育，
我們談家庭。
我們談家庭。
09:17
He talked to me about his children.
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他跟我講他的孩子。
09:19
I talked to him about my daughters.
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我跟他講我的女兒。
09:21
And then he'd talk about guns,
about cars, about women,
about cars, about women,
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然後他要聊槍支、聊汽車、聊女人，
09:25
and I had to talk about guns,
about cars, about women.
about cars, about women.
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所以我也得聊槍支、聊汽車、聊女人。
09:29
And we talked until
the last song on the tape.
the last song on the tape.
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我們一直聊到最後一首歌。
09:33
Ruslan was the most brutal man I ever met.
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鲁斯兰是我遇見過最兇殘的男人。
09:38
He did not touch me anymore.
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他沒有再碰我了。
09:42
He did not ask any other questions.
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他沒有再問我其他任何問題。
09:44
I was no longer just a commodity.
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我不再僅僅是一件商品。
09:48
Two days after, I was transferred
to another place.
to another place.
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兩天之後，我被轉移到另一個地方。
09:53
There, a guard came to me,
very close -- it was quite unusual --
very close -- it was quite unusual --
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在那裡，一名看守走到我身邊，
相當靠近——平常不會這樣——
相當靠近——平常不會這樣——
09:58
and he said with
a very soft voice, he said,
a very soft voice, he said,
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他用很輕很輕的聲音說
10:02
"I'd like to thank you
163
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「我要感謝你，
10:04
for the assistance your organization
provided my family
provided my family
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我們在達吉斯坦流離失所時，
10:08
when we were displaced
in nearby Dagestan."
in nearby Dagestan."
165
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4049
你們的組織向我家人提供了幫助。」
10:14
What could I possibly reply?
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我能說什麼？
10:17
It was so painful.
It was like a blade in the belly.
It was like a blade in the belly.
167
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4776
實在是太痛苦了。
就像腹中插了一把刀。
就像腹中插了一把刀。
10:22
It took me weeks of internal thinking
to try to reconcile
to try to reconcile
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我花了好幾個星期
去思考、嘗試重新接受
去思考、嘗試重新接受
10:26
the good reasons we had
to assist that family
to assist that family
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從前幫助那些家庭
10:29
and the soldier of fortune he became.
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和像他那樣後來變成僱傭軍的人時，
我們深信的信念。
我們深信的信念。
10:32
He was young, he was shy.
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他年輕、羞怯。
10:34
I never saw his face.
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我從沒見過他的臉。
10:36
He probably meant well.
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他的用意可能是好的。
10:39
But in those 15 seconds,
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2392
但在那15秒裡，
10:41
he made me question everything we did,
175
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3715
他讓我質疑我們以前所做的一切，
10:45
all the sacrifices.
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2391
所有的犧牲。
10:47
He made me think also how they see us.
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3553
他讓我開始思考他們對我們的看法。
10:51
Until then, I had assumed
that they know why we are there
that they know why we are there
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在此之前，我以為他們知道
我們為什麼會在那裡、
我們為什麼會在那裡、
10:54
and what we are doing.
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2879
我們在幹什麼。
10:56
One cannot assume this.
180
644915
2853
但大家不能這樣擅自揣測。
10:59
Well, explaining why we do this
is not that easy,
is not that easy,
181
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4252
解釋我們的行動目的，並不容易，
11:04
even to our closest relatives.
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652020
1792
即便是對我們最親的親人。
11:07
We are not perfect, we are not superior,
183
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3397
我們並不完美，也不高人一等，
11:10
we are not the world's fire brigade,
184
658459
2476
我們不是世界消防隊，
11:12
we are not superheroes,
185
660935
2114
也不是超級英雄，
11:15
we don't stop wars,
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663049
1672
我們不能阻止戰爭，
11:16
we know that humanitarian response is not
a substitute for political solution.
a substitute for political solution.
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664721
5384
我們深知人道主義措施
不能代替政治解決方案。
不能代替政治解決方案。
11:22
Yet we do this because one life matters.
188
670105
4458
但我們仍然堅持工作，
因為每條生命都很寶貴。
因為每條生命都很寶貴。
11:26
Sometimes that's the only
difference you make --
difference you make --
189
674563
2253
有時這就是你力所能及的，
11:28
one individual, one family,
a small group of individuals --
a small group of individuals --
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3320
一條生命、一個家庭、一個小群體，
11:32
and it matters.
191
680136
1974
都很重要。
11:34
When you have a tsunami,
an earthquake or a typhoon,
an earthquake or a typhoon,
192
682110
2857
海嘯、地震、颱風發生時，
11:36
you see teams of rescuers
coming from all over the world,
coming from all over the world,
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684967
4108
你看見救援隊伍
從世界各地趕往現場，
從世界各地趕往現場，
11:41
searching for survivors for weeks.
194
689075
3042
連續數週搜索倖存者。
11:44
Why? Nobody questions this.
195
692117
2554
為什麼？沒有人去質疑。
11:46
Every life matters,
196
694671
2113
每條生命都很寶貴，
11:48
or every life should matter.
197
696784
4226
或者說，每條生命都應該很寶貴。
11:53
This is the same for us
when we help refugees,
when we help refugees,
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2925
出於同一原因，我們幫助難民
11:55
people displaced within their country
by conflict, or stateless persons,
by conflict, or stateless persons,
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703935
4860
幫助由於衝突而流離失所的人，
無論他們有沒有國籍。
無論他們有沒有國籍。
12:01
I know many people,
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709595
1795
我知道有很多人，
12:03
when they are confronted
by overwhelming suffering,
by overwhelming suffering,
201
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3008
當他們面臨不能承受之苦時，
12:06
they feel powerless and they stop there.
202
714398
3771
會覺得無能為力，止步不前。
12:10
It's a pity, because there are
so many ways people can help.
so many ways people can help.
203
718169
3877
這很遺憾，因為人們
能給予幫助的方式有很多。
能給予幫助的方式有很多。
12:14
We don't stop with that feeling.
204
722046
1981
我們不會因為這種無力感而止步。
12:16
We try to do whatever we can
to provide some assistance,
to provide some assistance,
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724027
2651
我們嘗試盡己所能，
12:18
some protection, some comfort.
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726678
2654
去提供一些幫助、保護和安樂。
12:21
We have to.
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1761
我們必須這樣做。
12:23
We can't do otherwise.
208
731093
1750
我們別無選擇。
12:24
It's what makes us feel,
I don't know, simply human.
I don't know, simply human.
209
732843
5354
這能讓我們感覺…感覺到簡單的人道。
12:30
That's a picture of me
the day of my release.
the day of my release.
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738197
4119
這是我被釋放當天的照片。
12:34
Months after my release,
I met the then-French prime minister.
I met the then-French prime minister.
211
742316
4342
釋放數月後，
我會見了當時的法國總理。
我會見了當時的法國總理。
12:38
The second thing he told me:
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2042
他告訴我的第二件事是：
12:40
"You were totally irresponsible
to go to the North Caucasus.
to go to the North Caucasus.
213
748700
3531
「你去北高加索，實在是完全不負責任。
12:44
You don't know how many
problems you've created for us."
problems you've created for us."
214
752231
3906
你不知道你給我們帶來了多少麻煩。」
12:50
It was a short meeting.
215
758017
1835
會面很簡短。
12:51
(Laughter)
216
759852
1719
（笑聲）
12:54
I think helping people
in danger is responsible.
in danger is responsible.
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762661
4574
我相信，幫助身處危難的人
是負責任的行為。
是負責任的行為。
12:59
In that war, that nobody
seriously wanted to stop,
seriously wanted to stop,
218
767235
4528
那場戰爭，沒有人想要真正停戰，
13:03
and we have many of these today,
219
771763
2345
今天我們有很多這樣的戰爭，
13:06
bringing some assistance to people in need
and a bit of protection
and a bit of protection
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774108
4500
為有需要的人帶去一點幫助、一點保護
13:10
was not just an act of humanity,
221
778608
1909
並不只是人道行為，
13:12
it was making a real difference
for the people.
for the people.
222
780517
2902
這是為人類所做的真正改變。
13:15
Why could he not understand this?
223
783419
3251
為什麼他不能理解這點？
13:18
We have a responsibility to try.
224
786670
1927
我們有責任去嘗試。
13:20
You've heard about that concept:
Responsibility to Protect.
Responsibility to Protect.
225
788597
3834
大家都聽過這個概念：
保護的責任。
保護的責任。
13:24
Outcomes may depend
on various parameters.
on various parameters.
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792431
4081
成果可能取決於不同的標準。
13:28
We may even fail,
but there is worse than failing --
but there is worse than failing --
227
796512
3857
我們甚至可能會失敗，
但比失敗更糟糕的是：
但比失敗更糟糕的是：
13:32
it's not even trying when we can.
228
800369
2751
即便是力所能及，也不去嘗試。
13:36
Well, if you are met this way,
if you sign up for this sort of job,
if you sign up for this sort of job,
229
804441
3875
假如你有這樣的經歷，
如果你決定加入這類工作，
如果你決定加入這類工作，
13:40
your life is going to be full
of joy and sadness,
of joy and sadness,
230
808316
4638
你的生活將會充滿快樂和悲傷，
13:44
because there are a lot of people
we cannot help,
we cannot help,
231
812954
2679
因為我們無法幫助的人有很多，
13:47
a lot of people we cannot protect,
a lot of people we did not save.
a lot of people we did not save.
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815633
3924
我們無法保護的人有很多，
我們沒能拯救的人有很多。
我們沒能拯救的人有很多。
13:51
I call them my ghost,
233
819557
2243
我稱之為「我的鬼魂」，
13:53
and by having witnessed
their suffering from close,
their suffering from close,
234
821800
2957
近身目睹他們的痛苦，
13:56
you take a bit
of that suffering on yourself.
of that suffering on yourself.
235
824757
4147
你也會感受到其中的痛苦。
14:01
Many young humanitarian workers
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829304
2666
許多年輕的人道主義工作者
14:03
go through their first experience
with a lot of bitterness.
with a lot of bitterness.
237
831970
3018
初次工作會經歷很多辛酸。
14:06
They are thrown into situations
where they are witness,
where they are witness,
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834988
2972
他們不得不目睹一些情景慘狀，
14:09
but they are powerless
to bring any change.
to bring any change.
239
837960
3112
但是他們無能為力，無法改變。
14:13
They have to learn to accept it
240
841072
2507
他們必須學會接受，
14:15
and gradually turn this
into positive energy.
into positive energy.
241
843579
3379
慢慢將這些轉化為正能量。
14:18
It's difficult.
242
846958
1449
談何容易。
14:20
Many don't succeed,
243
848407
2538
很多人做不到，
14:22
but for those who do,
there is no other job like this.
there is no other job like this.
244
850945
4008
但對於做得到的人來說，
其他工作無法與之相比。
其他工作無法與之相比。
14:26
You can see the difference
you make every day.
you make every day.
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854953
3780
每天你都可以看見自己發揮的作用。
14:31
Humanitarian aid workers
know the risk they are taking
know the risk they are taking
246
859643
3162
人道主義援助工作者知道他們所擔負的風險，
無論在衝突地區、還是衝突過後的地區，
14:34
in conflict areas or
in post-conflict environments,
in post-conflict environments,
247
862805
4912
14:39
yet our life, our job, is becoming
increasingly life-threatening,
increasingly life-threatening,
248
867717
6712
但我們的生命、我們的工作
卻越來越威脅到生命安全，
卻越來越威脅到生命安全，
14:46
and the sanctity of our life is fading.
249
874429
3182
而生命的聖潔性卻逐漸減退。
14:51
Do you know that since the millennium,
250
879441
2659
你知道嗎？自千禧年來，
14:54
the number of attacks on humanitarian
aid workers has tripled?
aid workers has tripled?
251
882100
4319
對人道主義援助工作者的襲擊
已經增加到3倍。
已經增加到3倍。
14:59
2013 broke new records:
252
887409
2632
2013年破了新紀錄：
15:03
155 colleagues killed,
253
891111
3272
155位同僚被殺害，
15:06
171 seriously wounded,
254
894383
3134
171位受重傷，
15:09
134 abducted.
255
897517
3458
134位被綁架。
15:13
So many broken lives.
256
901375
3803
破碎的生命如此之多。
15:17
Until the beginning of the civil war
in Somalia in the late '80s,
in Somalia in the late '80s,
257
905178
5202
80年代初，索馬里內戰剛開始前，
15:22
humanitarian aid workers
were sometimes victims
were sometimes victims
258
910380
4110
人道主義援助工作者有時會成為
我們所說的間接傷害的受害者，
我們所說的間接傷害的受害者，
15:26
of what we call collateral damages,
259
914490
1997
有時人道主義援助工作者會成為
我們所說的間接傷害的受害者，
我們所說的間接傷害的受害者，
15:28
but by and large we were not
the target of these attacks.
the target of these attacks.
260
916487
3715
但我們基本上不是襲擊的目標。
15:32
This has changed.
261
920202
1554
但現在變了。
15:33
Look at this picture.
262
921756
1276
看看這張照片。
15:35
Baghdad, August 2003:
263
923032
2834
巴格達，2003年8月：
15:37
24 colleagues were killed.
264
925866
2765
24位同僚遭殺害。
15:40
Gone are the days when
a U.N. blue flag or a Red Cross
a U.N. blue flag or a Red Cross
265
928631
3526
聯合國的藍旗或紅十字會旗
在過去會自動保護我們，
在過去會自動保護我們，
15:44
would automatically protect us.
266
932157
3776
這樣的日子已經不復返。
15:47
Criminal groups and some political groups
267
935933
3262
犯罪團體和一些政治團體
15:51
have cross-fertilized
over the last 20 years,
over the last 20 years,
268
939195
2856
在過去20年來互相雜交，
15:54
and they've created these sort of hybrids
269
942051
3135
創造出的產物
15:57
with whom we have no way of communicating.
270
945186
2866
我們根本無法與之溝通。
16:00
Humanitarian principles are tested,
questioned, and often ignored,
questioned, and often ignored,
271
948052
5374
人道主義原則被測試、質疑，
也常常被忽視，
也常常被忽視，
16:05
but perhaps more importantly,
we have abandoned the search for justice.
we have abandoned the search for justice.
272
953426
4886
但也許更重要的是，
我們已經放棄尋求正義。
我們已經放棄尋求正義。
16:10
There seems to be
no consequence whatsoever
no consequence whatsoever
273
958312
3220
襲擊人道主義援助工作者
16:13
for attacks against
humanitarian aid workers.
humanitarian aid workers.
274
961532
3465
似乎再也不會帶來什麼後果。
16:16
After my release, I was told
not to seek any form of justice.
not to seek any form of justice.
275
964997
4360
我被釋放後，被告知
不要尋求任何形式的正義。
不要尋求任何形式的正義。
16:21
It won't do you any good,
that's what I was told.
that's what I was told.
276
969357
3227
「這對你沒好處」，人們這麼說。
16:24
Plus, you're going to put in danger
the life of other colleagues.
the life of other colleagues.
277
972584
4089
「而且你會將其他同僚的生命置於危險之中。」
16:29
It took me years to see the sentencing
278
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3161
花了很多年，我才看到
16:32
of three people associated
with my kidnapping,
with my kidnapping,
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與我綁架案相關的三個人被判刑，
16:37
but this was the exception.
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但這是例外。
16:39
There was no justice for any
of the humanitarian aid workers
of the humanitarian aid workers
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1995-1999年間在車臣被殺害或綁架的
人道主義援助工作者，
人道主義援助工作者，
16:44
killed or abducted in Chechnya
between '95 and '99,
between '95 and '99,
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沒有看到任何正義得到伸張，
16:48
and it's the same all over the world.
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而全世界也是如此。
16:52
This is unacceptable.
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無法接受。
16:54
This is inexcusable.
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不能容忍。
16:56
Attacks on humanitarian aid workers
are war crimes in international law.
are war crimes in international law.
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在國際法中，襲擊人道主義
援助工作者是戰爭罪行。
援助工作者是戰爭罪行。
17:01
Those crimes should not go unpunished.
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這些罪行不應逃脫懲處。
17:04
We must end this cycle of impunity.
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我們必須結束有罪不懲的惡循環。
17:06
We must consider that those attacks
against humanitarian aid workers
against humanitarian aid workers
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我們必須將對人道主義援助工作者的襲擊
17:10
are attacks against humanity itself.
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視為對人道主義的襲擊。
17:14
That makes me furious.
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這樣的襲擊讓我怒不可遏。
17:18
I know I'm very lucky
compared to the refugees I work for.
compared to the refugees I work for.
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我知道，比起工作中遇到的難民
我已相當幸運。
我已相當幸運。
17:24
I don't know what it is to have seen
my whole town destroyed.
my whole town destroyed.
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3627
看見自己的家鄉被完全毀滅，
我不知道會有何感想。
我不知道會有何感想。
17:28
I don't know what it is to have seen
my relatives shot in front of me.
my relatives shot in front of me.
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看見自己的家人被射死，
我不知道會有何感想。
我不知道會有何感想。
17:32
I don't know what it is to lose
the protection of my country.
the protection of my country.
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看見自己的國家失去保護，
我不知道會有何感想。
我不知道會有何感想。
17:36
I also know that I'm very lucky
compared to other hostages.
compared to other hostages.
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我知道，比起其他人質，
我已相當幸運。
我已相當幸運。
17:40
Four days before my eventful release,
four hostages were beheaded
four hostages were beheaded
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在我被釋放前四天，四名人質被斬首，
17:46
a few miles away from where
I was kept in captivity.
I was kept in captivity.
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僅離我囚禁之處幾英里遠。
17:50
Why them?
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為什麼是他們？
17:52
Why am I here today?
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為什麼我今天會在這裡？
17:56
No easy answer.
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答案不容易。
18:00
I was received with a lot of support
that I got from my relatives,
that I got from my relatives,
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我從家人、同僚、朋友、陌生人身上
18:04
from colleagues, from friends,
from people I didn't know.
from people I didn't know.
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得到了許多支持。
18:07
They have helped me over the years
to come out of the darkness.
to come out of the darkness.
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3519
這些年來他們幫助我走出黑暗。
18:12
Not everyone was treated
with the same attention.
with the same attention.
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不是每個人都得到了同樣的關注。
18:16
How many of my colleagues,
after a traumatic incident,
after a traumatic incident,
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多少位同僚在經過創傷事件後
18:19
took their own life?
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3276
放棄了自己的生命？
18:23
I can count nine that I knew personally.
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我自己認識的就有9位。
18:26
How many of my colleagues
went through a difficult divorce
went through a difficult divorce
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3728
多少位同僚遭受了創傷事件後
18:30
after a traumatic experience
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2934
經歷了艱難的離婚，
18:33
because they could not explain
anything anymore to their spouse?
anything anymore to their spouse?
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4728
因為他們再也不能
向伴侶解釋任何事情。
向伴侶解釋任何事情。
18:38
I've lost that count.
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這種事不勝枚舉。
18:40
There is a price for this type of life.
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這類人生有代價。
18:44
In Russia, all war monuments have
this beautiful inscription at the top.
this beautiful inscription at the top.
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4633
在俄羅斯，所有的戰爭紀念碑
的頂部都有這串漂亮的銘文。
的頂部都有這串漂亮的銘文。
18:48
It says, (In Russian)
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上面寫著（俄文）：
18:52
"No one is forgotten,
nothing is forgotten."
nothing is forgotten."
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「無人被遺忘，無事被遺忘。」
18:57
I do not forget my lost colleagues.
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我不會忘記我失去的同僚。
19:00
I cannot forget anything.
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2336
我不能忘卻所發生過的事情。
19:02
I call on you to remember their dedication
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我呼籲各位，銘記他們的奉獻，
19:06
and demand that humanitarian
aid workers around the world
aid workers around the world
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並要求世界範圍內的人道主義援助工作者
19:09
be better protected.
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都會受到更好地保護。
19:12
We should not let that light of hope
they have brought to be switched off.
they have brought to be switched off.
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我們不該讓他們所帶來的希望之光熄滅。
19:17
After my ordeal, a lot of colleagues
asked me, "But why do you continue?
asked me, "But why do you continue?
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經歷苦難之後，許多同僚問我：
「你爲什麽還在堅持？」
「你爲什麽還在堅持？」
19:22
Why do you do this sort of job?
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2206
「為什麼你要做這樣的工作？」
19:24
Why do you have to go back to it?"
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「為什麼你非得要繼續做？」
19:27
My answer was very simple:
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2495
我的答案非常簡單：
19:30
If I had quit,
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如果我放棄的話，
19:32
that would have meant
my kidnapper had won.
my kidnapper had won.
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4017
那就是說我的綁匪成功了。
19:36
They would have taken my soul
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我若放棄，他們就該征服我的靈魂，
19:38
and my humanity.
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我的人性。
19:41
Thank you.
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感謝。
19:43
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Vincent Cochetel - HumanitarianVincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).
Why you should listen
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). There he focuses on the specific challenges of the region — maintaining quality in asylum-seeking procedures, ensuring access to protection for those fleeing the conflict in Syria, combatting a rise in xenophobia, and allocating resources for those affected by conflicts of the past.
In 1998, Cochetel was kidnapped near Chechnya. For 317 days, he was chained to a bed frame in a cellar and deprived of light. But far from withdrawing from humanitarian work, the experience made him more determined than ever to improve the rights of refugees worldwide. He has written articles on numerous refugee issues and contributed to the drafting of several UNHCR training manuals related to staff safety, emergency management, and protection.
Vincent Cochetel | Speaker | TED.com