ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Yuval Noah Harari - Historian, author
In his book "Homo Deus," Yuval Noah Harari explores the future of humankind: the destinies we may set for ourselves and the quests we'll undertake.

Why you should listen

In his book, Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow, Yuval Noah Harari explores the projects, dreams and nightmares that will shape the 21st century -- from overcoming death to creating artificial life. He maps the future and asks fundamental questions: Where do we go from here? How will we protect this fragile world from our own destructive powers? The book has sold four million copies since its publication in 2016.

Harari's previous book, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, explores what made homo sapiens the most successful species on the planet. His answer: We are the only animal that can believe in things that exist purely in our imagination, such as gods, states, money, human rights, corporations and other fictions, and we have developed a unique ability to use these stories to unify and organize groups and ensure cooperation. Sapiens has sold eight million copies and been translated into more than 50 languages. Bill GatesMark Zuckerberg and President Barack Obama have recommended it as a must-read.

Harari lectures as a Professor of history at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, where he specializes in world history, medieval history and military history. His current research focuses on macro-historical questions: What is the relationship between history and biology? What is the essential difference between Homo sapiens and other animals? Is there justice in history? Does history have a direction? Did people become happier as history unfolded? Harari has written for newspapers such as The Guardian, Financial Times, the Times, Nature magazine and the Wall Street Journal.

Harari's new book, 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, will take the pulse of our current global climate, focusing on the biggest questions of the present moment: What is really happening right now? What are today’s greatest challenges and choices? What should we pay attention to? The book will be published in multiple languages in September 2018.

More profile about the speaker
Yuval Noah Harari | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
TED Dialogues

Yuval Noah Harari: Nationalism vs. globalism: the new political divide

Filmed:
2,979,417 views

How do we make sense of today's political divisions? In a wide-ranging conversation full of insight, historian Yuval Harari places our current turmoil in a broader context, against the ongoing disruption of our technology, climate, media -- even our notion of what humanity is for. This is the first of a series of TED Dialogues, seeking a thoughtful response to escalating political divisiveness. Make time (just over an hour) for this fascinating discussion between Harari and TED curator Chris Anderson.
- Historian, author
In his book "Homo Deus," Yuval Noah Harari explores the future of humankind: the destinies we may set for ourselves and the quests we'll undertake. Full bio - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Chris Anderson: Hello.
Welcome to this TED Dialogues.
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It's the first of a series
that's going to be done
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in response to the current
political upheaval.
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I don't know about you;
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I've become quite concerned about
the growing divisiveness in this country
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and in the world.
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No one's listening to each other. Right?
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They aren't.
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I mean, it feels like we need
a different kind of conversation,
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one that's based on -- I don't know,
on reason, listening, on understanding,
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on a broader context.
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That's at least what we're going to try
in these TED Dialogues,
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starting today.
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And we couldn't have anyone with us
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who I'd be more excited to kick this off.
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This is a mind right here that thinks
pretty much like no one else
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on the planet, I would hasten to say.
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I'm serious.
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(Yuval Noah Harari laughs)
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I'm serious.
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He synthesizes history
with underlying ideas
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in a way that kind of takes
your breath away.
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So, some of you will know
this book, "Sapiens."
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Has anyone here read "Sapiens"?
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(Applause)
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I mean, I could not put it down.
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The way that he tells the story of mankind
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through big ideas that really make you
think differently --
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it's kind of amazing.
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And here's the follow-up,
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which I think is being published
in the US next week.
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01:36
YNH: Yeah, next week.
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CA: "Homo Deus."
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Now, this is the history
of the next hundred years.
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I've had a chance to read it.
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It's extremely dramatic,
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and I daresay, for some people,
quite alarming.
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It's a must-read.
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And honestly, we couldn't have
someone better to help
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make sense of what on Earth
is happening in the world right now.
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So a warm welcome, please,
to Yuval Noah Harari.
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(Applause)
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It's great to be joined by our friends
on Facebook and around the Web.
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Hello, Facebook.
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And all of you, as I start
asking questions of Yuval,
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come up with your own questions,
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and not necessarily about
the political scandal du jour,
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but about the broader understanding
of: Where are we heading?
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You ready? OK, we're going to go.
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So here we are, Yuval:
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New York City, 2017,
there's a new president in power,
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and shock waves rippling around the world.
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What on Earth is happening?
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YNH: I think the basic thing that happened
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is that we have lost our story.
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Humans think in stories,
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and we try to make sense of the world
by telling stories.
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And for the last few decades,
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we had a very simple
and very attractive story
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about what's happening in the world.
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And the story said that,
oh, what's happening is
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that the economy is being globalized,
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politics is being liberalized,
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and the combination of the two
will create paradise on Earth,
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and we just need to keep on
globalizing the economy
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and liberalizing the political system,
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and everything will be wonderful.
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And 2016 is the moment
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when a very large segment,
even of the Western world,
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stopped believing in this story.
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For good or bad reasons --
it doesn't matter.
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People stopped believing in the story,
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and when you don't have a story,
you don't understand what's happening.
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CA: Part of you believes that that story
was actually a very effective story.
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It worked.
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YNH: To some extent, yes.
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According to some measurements,
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we are now in the best time ever
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for humankind.
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Today, for the first time in history,
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more people die from eating too much
than from eating too little,
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which is an amazing achievement.
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(Laughter)
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Also for the first time in history,
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more people die from old age
than from infectious diseases,
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and violence is also down.
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For the first time in history,
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more people commit suicide
than are killed by crime and terrorism
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and war put together.
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Statistically, you are
your own worst enemy.
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At least, of all the people in the world,
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you are most likely
to be killed by yourself --
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(Laughter)
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which is, again,
very good news, compared --
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(Laughter)
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compared to the level of violence
that we saw in previous eras.
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CA: But this process
of connecting the world
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ended up with a large group of people
kind of feeling left out,
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and they've reacted.
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And so we have this bombshell
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that's sort of ripping
through the whole system.
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I mean, what do you make
of what's happened?
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It feels like the old way
that people thought of politics,
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the left-right divide,
has been blown up and replaced.
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How should we think of this?
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YNH: Yeah, the old 20th-century
political model of left versus right
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is now largely irrelevant,
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and the real divide today
is between global and national,
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global or local.
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And you see it again all over the world
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that this is now the main struggle.
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We probably need completely
new political models
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and completely new ways
of thinking about politics.
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In essence, what you can say
is that we now have global ecology,
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we have a global economy
but we have national politics,
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and this doesn't work together.
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This makes the political
system ineffective,
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because it has no control
over the forces that shape our life.
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And you have basically two solutions
to this imbalance:
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either de-globalize the economy
and turn it back into a national economy,
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or globalize the political system.
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CA: So some, I guess
many liberals out there
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view Trump and his government
as kind of irredeemably bad,
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just awful in every way.
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Do you see any underlying narrative
or political philosophy in there
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that is at least worth understanding?
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How would you articulate that philosophy?
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Is it just the philosophy of nationalism?
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YNH: I think the underlying
feeling or idea
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is that the political system --
something is broken there.
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It doesn't empower
the ordinary person anymore.
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It doesn't care so much
about the ordinary person anymore,
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and I think this diagnosis
of the political disease is correct.
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With regard to the answers,
I am far less certain.
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I think what we are seeing
is the immediate human reaction:
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if something doesn't work, let's go back.
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And you see it all over the world,
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that people, almost nobody
in the political system today,
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has any future-oriented vision
of where humankind is going.
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Almost everywhere,
you see retrograde vision:
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"Let's make America great again,"
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like it was great -- I don't know --
in the '50s, in the '80s, sometime,
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let's go back there.
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And you go to Russia
a hundred years after Lenin,
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Putin's vision for the future
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is basically, ah, let's go back
to the Tsarist empire.
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And in Israel, where I come from,
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the hottest political vision
of the present is:
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"Let's build the temple again."
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So let's go back 2,000 years backwards.
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So people are thinking
sometime in the past we've lost it,
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and sometimes in the past, it's like
you've lost your way in the city,
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and you say OK, let's go back
to the point where I felt secure
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and start again.
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I don't think this can work,
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but a lot of people,
this is their gut instinct.
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CA: But why couldn't it work?
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"America First" is a very
appealing slogan in many ways.
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Patriotism is, in many ways,
a very noble thing.
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It's played a role
in promoting cooperation
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among large numbers of people.
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Why couldn't you have a world
organized in countries,
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all of which put themselves first?
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YNH: For many centuries,
even thousands of years,
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patriotism worked quite well.
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Of course, it led to wars an so forth,
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but we shouldn't focus
too much on the bad.
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There are also many,
many positive things about patriotism,
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and the ability to have
a large number of people
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care about each other,
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sympathize with one another,
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and come together for collective action.
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If you go back to the first nations,
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so, thousands of years ago,
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the people who lived along
the Yellow River in China --
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it was many, many different tribes
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and they all depended on the river
for survival and for prosperity,
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but all of them also suffered
from periodical floods
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and periodical droughts.
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And no tribe could really do
anything about it,
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because each of them controlled
just a tiny section of the river.
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And then in a long
and complicated process,
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the tribes coalesced together
to form the Chinese nation,
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which controlled the entire Yellow River
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and had the ability to bring
hundreds of thousands of people together
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to build dams and canals
and regulate the river
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and prevent the worst floods and droughts
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and raise the level
of prosperity for everybody.
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And this worked in many places
around the world.
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But in the 21st century,
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technology is changing all that
in a fundamental way.
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We are now living -- all people
in the world --
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are living alongside the same cyber river,
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and no single nation can regulate
this river by itself.
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We are all living together
on a single planet,
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which is threatened by our own actions.
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And if you don't have some kind
of global cooperation,
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nationalism is just not on the right level
to tackle the problems,
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whether it's climate change
or whether it's technological disruption.
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CA: So it was a beautiful idea
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in a world where most of the action,
most of the issues,
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took place on national scale,
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but your argument is that the issues
that matter most today
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no longer take place on a national scale
but on a global scale.
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YNH: Exactly. All the major problems
of the world today
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are global in essence,
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and they cannot be solved
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unless through some kind
of global cooperation.
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It's not just climate change,
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which is, like, the most obvious
example people give.
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I think more in terms
of technological disruption.
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If you think about, for example,
artificial intelligence,
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over the next 20, 30 years
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pushing hundreds of millions of people
out of the job market --
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this is a problem on a global level.
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It will disrupt the economy
of all the countries.
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And similarly, if you think
about, say, bioengineering
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and people being afraid of conducting,
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I don't know, genetic engineering
research in humans,
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it won't help if just
a single country, let's say the US,
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outlaws all genetic experiments in humans,
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but China or North Korea
continues to do it.
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So the US cannot solve it by itself,
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and very quickly, the pressure on the US
to do the same will be immense
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because we are talking about
high-risk, high-gain technologies.
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If somebody else is doing it,
I can't allow myself to remain behind.
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The only way to have regulations,
effective regulations,
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on things like genetic engineering,
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is to have global regulations.
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11:58
If you just have national regulations,
nobody would like to stay behind.
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CA: So this is really interesting.
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12:05
It seems to me that this may be one key
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12:07
to provoking at least
a constructive conversation
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between the different sides here,
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because I think everyone can agree
that the start point
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12:16
of a lot of the anger
that's propelled us to where we are
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12:18
is because of the legitimate
concerns about job loss.
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12:21
Work is gone, a traditional
way of life has gone,
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12:25
and it's no wonder
that people are furious about that.
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12:28
And in general, they have blamed
globalism, global elites,
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12:33
for doing this to them
without asking their permission,
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12:36
and that seems like
a legitimate complaint.
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12:38
But what I hear you saying
is that -- so a key question is:
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12:41
What is the real cause of job loss,
both now and going forward?
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12:47
To the extent that it's about globalism,
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12:49
then the right response,
yes, is to shut down borders
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12:54
and keep people out
and change trade agreements and so forth.
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12:58
But you're saying, I think,
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that actually the bigger cause of job loss
is not going to be that at all.
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13:04
It's going to originate
in technological questions,
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13:07
and we have no chance of solving that
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13:10
unless we operate as a connected world.
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13:12
YNH: Yeah, I think that,
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13:13
I don't know about the present,
but looking to the future,
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13:16
it's not the Mexicans or Chinese
who will take the jobs
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13:20
from the people in Pennsylvania,
255
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1567
13:21
it's the robots and algorithms.
256
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13:23
So unless you plan to build a big wall
on the border of California --
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13:27
(Laughter)
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13:28
the wall on the border with Mexico
is going to be very ineffective.
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13:32
And I was struck when I watched
the debates before the election,
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13:38
I was struck that certainly Trump
did not even attempt to frighten people
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13:44
by saying the robots will take your jobs.
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13:47
Now even if it's not true,
it doesn't matter.
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13:49
It could have been an extremely
effective way of frightening people --
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13:53
(Laughter)
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13:54
and galvanizing people:
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13:55
"The robots will take your jobs!"
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13:56
And nobody used that line.
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13:58
And it made me afraid,
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14:01
because it meant
that no matter what happens
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4048
14:05
in universities and laboratories,
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14:07
and there, there is already
an intense debate about it,
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2765
14:10
but in the mainstream political system
and among the general public,
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14:14
people are just unaware
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2110
14:16
that there could be an immense
technological disruption --
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14:20
not in 200 years,
but in 10, 20, 30 years --
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14:24
and we have to do something about it now,
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14:27
partly because most of what we teach
children today in school or in college
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14:33
is going to be completely irrelevant
to the job market of 2040, 2050.
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14:39
So it's not something we'll need
to think about in 2040.
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14:43
We need to think today
what to teach the young people.
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14:46
CA: Yeah, no, absolutely.
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14:50
You've often written about
moments in history
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14:54
where humankind has ...
entered a new era, unintentionally.
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15:01
Decisions have been made,
technologies have been developed,
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15:04
and suddenly the world has changed,
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15:07
possibly in a way
that's worse for everyone.
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15:09
So one of the examples
you give in "Sapiens"
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15:11
is just the whole agricultural revolution,
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2091
15:13
which, for an actual person
tilling the fields,
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3554
15:17
they just picked up a 12-hour
backbreaking workday
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3180
15:20
instead of six hours in the jungle
and a much more interesting lifestyle.
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6248
15:26
(Laughter)
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15:27
So are we at another possible
phase change here,
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3189
15:31
where we kind of sleepwalk into a future
that none of us actually wants?
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4488
15:36
YNH: Yes, very much so.
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2733
15:38
During the agricultural revolution,
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1837
15:40
what happened is that immense
technological and economic revolution
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15:45
empowered the human collective,
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2865
15:48
but when you look at actual
individual lives,
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2953
15:50
the life of a tiny elite
became much better,
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3494
15:54
and the lives of the majority of people
became considerably worse.
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4238
15:58
And this can happen again
in the 21st century.
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2705
16:01
No doubt the new technologies
will empower the human collective.
304
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4866
16:06
But we may end up again
305
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2720
16:09
with a tiny elite reaping
all the benefits, taking all the fruits,
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4457
16:13
and the masses of the population
finding themselves worse
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4186
16:17
than they were before,
308
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1301
16:19
certainly much worse than this tiny elite.
309
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2788
16:22
CA: And those elites
might not even be human elites.
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16:25
They might be cyborgs or --
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16:27
YNH: Yeah, they could be
enhanced super humans.
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2207
16:29
They could be cyborgs.
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1255
16:30
They could be completely
nonorganic elites.
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2357
16:33
They could even be
non-conscious algorithms.
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2528
16:35
What we see now in the world
is authority shifting away
316
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4911
16:40
from humans to algorithms.
317
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2269
16:42
More and more decisions --
about personal lives,
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3524
16:46
about economic matters,
about political matters --
319
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2672
16:49
are actually being taken by algorithms.
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2479
16:51
If you ask the bank for a loan,
321
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2634
16:54
chances are your fate is decided
by an algorithm, not by a human being.
322
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4697
16:58
And the general impression
is that maybe Homo sapiens just lost it.
323
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6187
17:05
The world is so complicated,
there is so much data,
324
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4560
17:09
things are changing so fast,
325
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2554
17:12
that this thing that evolved
on the African savanna
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3601
17:15
tens of thousands of years ago --
327
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1707
17:17
to cope with a particular environment,
328
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3497
17:21
a particular volume
of information and data --
329
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3484
17:24
it just can't handle the realities
of the 21st century,
330
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4336
17:29
and the only thing
that may be able to handle it
331
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2897
17:31
is big-data algorithms.
332
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2072
17:34
So no wonder more and more authority
is shifting from us to the algorithms.
333
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6181
17:40
CA: So we're in New York City
for the first of a series of TED Dialogues
334
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3849
17:44
with Yuval Harari,
335
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2297
17:47
and there's a Facebook Live
audience out there.
336
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3844
17:50
We're excited to have you with us.
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1651
17:52
We'll start coming
to some of your questions
338
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2102
17:54
and questions of people in the room
339
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1714
17:56
in just a few minutes,
340
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1165
17:57
so have those coming.
341
1065647
1964
17:59
Yuval, if you're going
to make the argument
342
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3897
18:03
that we need to get past nationalism
because of the coming technological ...
343
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6135
18:11
danger, in a way,
344
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1841
18:13
presented by so much of what's happening
345
1081083
1945
18:15
we've got to have
a global conversation about this.
346
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2443
18:17
Trouble is, it's hard to get people
really believing that, I don't know,
347
1085519
3428
18:20
AI really is an imminent
threat, and so forth.
348
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2161
18:23
The things that people,
some people at least,
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2726
18:25
care about much more immediately, perhaps,
350
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2035
18:27
is climate change,
351
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1584
18:29
perhaps other issues like refugees,
nuclear weapons, and so forth.
352
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4893
18:34
Would you argue that where
we are right now
353
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5046
18:39
that somehow those issues
need to be dialed up?
354
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3549
18:43
You've talked about climate change,
355
1111133
2160
18:45
but Trump has said
he doesn't believe in that.
356
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3656
18:48
So in a way, your most powerful argument,
357
1116997
2439
18:51
you can't actually use to make this case.
358
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2746
18:54
YNH: Yeah, I think with climate change,
359
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2186
18:56
at first sight, it's quite surprising
360
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3707
19:00
that there is a very close correlation
361
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2504
19:02
between nationalism and climate change.
362
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3322
19:06
I mean, almost always, the people
who deny climate change are nationalists.
363
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4587
19:10
And at first sight, you think: Why?
364
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2081
19:12
What's the connection?
365
1140761
1153
19:13
Why don't you have socialists
denying climate change?
366
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2786
19:16
But then, when you think
about it, it's obvious --
367
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2351
19:19
because nationalism has no solution
to climate change.
368
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3744
19:22
If you want to be a nationalist
in the 21st century,
369
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3196
19:26
you have to deny the problem.
370
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1872
19:28
If you accept the reality of the problem,
then you must accept that, yes,
371
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4487
19:32
there is still room in the world
for patriotism,
372
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2776
19:35
there is still room in the world
for having special loyalties
373
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4151
19:39
and obligations towards your own people,
towards your own country.
374
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4634
19:44
I don't think anybody is really
thinking of abolishing that.
375
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3820
19:47
But in order to confront climate change,
376
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3001
19:51
we need additional loyalties
and commitments
377
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4211
19:55
to a level beyond the nation.
378
1183255
2005
19:57
And that should not be impossible,
379
1185284
2443
19:59
because people can have
several layers of loyalty.
380
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3692
20:03
You can be loyal to your family
381
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2404
20:05
and to your community
382
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1513
20:07
and to your nation,
383
1195432
1329
20:08
so why can't you also be loyal
to humankind as a whole?
384
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3628
20:12
Of course, there are occasions
when it becomes difficult,
385
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3399
20:15
what to put first,
386
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1783
20:17
but, you know, life is difficult.
387
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1823
20:19
Handle it.
388
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1151
20:20
(Laughter)
389
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2644
20:23
CA: OK, so I would love to get
some questions from the audience here.
390
1211357
4498
20:27
We've got a microphone here.
391
1215879
1918
20:29
Speak into it, and Facebook,
get them coming, too.
392
1217821
3217
20:33
Howard Morgan: One of the things that has
clearly made a huge difference
393
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3434
20:36
in this country and other countries
394
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1786
20:38
is the income distribution inequality,
395
1226330
2214
20:40
the dramatic change
in income distribution in the US
396
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4214
20:44
from what it was 50 years ago,
397
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1702
20:46
and around the world.
398
1234532
1151
20:47
Is there anything we can do
to affect that?
399
1235707
3143
20:50
Because that gets at a lot
of the underlying causes.
400
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2841
20:56
YNH: So far I haven't heard a very
good idea about what to do about it,
401
1244283
5314
21:01
again, partly because most ideas
remain on the national level,
402
1249621
3728
21:05
and the problem is global.
403
1253373
1768
21:07
I mean, one idea that we hear
quite a lot about now
404
1255165
2978
21:10
is universal basic income.
405
1258167
1832
21:12
But this is a problem.
406
1260023
1151
21:13
I mean, I think it's a good start,
407
1261198
1652
21:14
but it's a problematic idea because
it's not clear what "universal" is
408
1262874
3722
21:18
and it's not clear what "basic" is.
409
1266620
1841
21:20
Most people when they speak
about universal basic income,
410
1268485
3381
21:23
they actually mean national basic income.
411
1271890
2785
21:26
But the problem is global.
412
1274699
1744
21:28
Let's say that you have AI and 3D printers
taking away millions of jobs
413
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5650
21:34
in Bangladesh,
414
1282141
1156
21:35
from all the people who make
my shirts and my shoes.
415
1283321
3248
21:38
So what's going to happen?
416
1286593
1306
21:39
The US government will levy taxes
on Google and Apple in California,
417
1287923
6539
21:46
and use that to pay basic income
to unemployed Bangladeshis?
418
1294486
4581
21:51
If you believe that,
you can just as well believe
419
1299091
2636
21:53
that Santa Claus will come
and solve the problem.
420
1301751
3663
21:57
So unless we have really universal
and not national basic income,
421
1305438
5126
22:02
the deep problems
are not going to go away.
422
1310588
3135
22:05
And also it's not clear what basic is,
423
1313747
2732
22:08
because what are basic human needs?
424
1316503
2633
22:11
A thousand years ago,
just food and shelter was enough.
425
1319160
2810
22:13
But today, people will say
education is a basic human need,
426
1321994
3611
22:17
it should be part of the package.
427
1325629
1573
22:19
But how much? Six years?
Twelve years? PhD?
428
1327226
3779
22:23
Similarly, with health care,
429
1331029
1833
22:24
let's say that in 20, 30, 40 years,
430
1332886
2685
22:27
you'll have expensive treatments
that can extend human life
431
1335595
3773
22:31
to 120, I don't know.
432
1339392
1915
22:33
Will this be part of the basket
of basic income or not?
433
1341331
5191
22:38
It's a very difficult problem,
434
1346546
1429
22:39
because in a world where people
lose their ability to be employed,
435
1347999
6258
22:46
the only thing they are going to get
is this basic income.
436
1354281
3581
22:49
So what's part of it is a very,
very difficult ethical question.
437
1357886
5127
22:55
CA: There's a bunch of questions
on how the world affords it as well,
438
1363037
3304
22:58
who pays.
439
1366365
1160
22:59
There's a question here
from Facebook from Lisa Larson:
440
1367549
2812
23:02
"How does nationalism in the US now
441
1370385
2575
23:04
compare to that between
World War I and World War II
442
1372984
3415
23:08
in the last century?"
443
1376423
1421
23:09
YNH: Well the good news, with regard
to the dangers of nationalism,
444
1377868
4448
23:14
we are in a much better position
than a century ago.
445
1382340
3923
23:18
A century ago, 1917,
446
1386287
2672
23:20
Europeans were killing
each other by the millions.
447
1388983
3133
23:24
In 2016, with Brexit,
as far as I remember,
448
1392140
4351
23:28
a single person lost their life,
an MP who was murdered by some extremist.
449
1396515
5237
23:33
Just a single person.
450
1401776
1533
23:35
I mean, if Brexit was about
British independence,
451
1403333
2685
23:38
this is the most peaceful
war of independence in human history.
452
1406042
4751
23:42
And let's say that Scotland
will now choose to leave the UK
453
1410817
5789
23:48
after Brexit.
454
1416630
2176
23:50
So in the 18th century,
455
1418830
1984
23:52
if Scotland wanted -- and the Scots
wanted several times --
456
1420838
3232
23:56
to break out of the control of London,
457
1424094
3533
23:59
the reaction of the government
in London was to send an army up north
458
1427651
4298
24:03
to burn down Edinburgh
and massacre the highland tribes.
459
1431973
3471
24:07
My guess is that if, in 2018,
the Scots vote for independence,
460
1435468
5556
24:13
the London government
will not send an army up north
461
1441048
3409
24:16
to burn down Edinburgh.
462
1444481
1603
24:18
Very few people are now willing
to kill or be killed
463
1446108
4267
24:22
for Scottish or for British independence.
464
1450399
2722
24:25
So for all the talk
of the rise of nationalism
465
1453145
5020
24:30
and going back to the 1930s,
466
1458189
2243
24:32
to the 19th century, in the West at least,
467
1460456
3775
24:36
the power of national sentiments
today is far, far smaller
468
1464255
6584
24:42
than it was a century ago.
469
1470863
1540
24:44
CA: Although some people now,
you hear publicly worrying
470
1472427
3837
24:48
about whether that might be shifting,
471
1476288
2756
24:51
that there could actually be
outbreaks of violence in the US
472
1479068
3398
24:54
depending on how things turn out.
473
1482490
2347
24:56
Should we be worried about that,
474
1484861
1539
24:58
or do you really think
things have shifted?
475
1486424
2066
25:00
YNH: No, we should be worried.
476
1488514
1491
25:02
We should be aware of two things.
477
1490029
1625
25:03
First of all, don't be hysterical.
478
1491678
1637
25:05
We are not back
in the First World War yet.
479
1493339
3447
25:08
But on the other hand,
don't be complacent.
480
1496810
2940
25:11
We reached from 1917 to 2017,
481
1499774
5374
25:17
not by some divine miracle,
482
1505172
2182
25:19
but simply by human decisions,
483
1507378
2024
25:21
and if we now start making
the wrong decisions,
484
1509426
2663
25:24
we could be back
in an analogous situation to 1917
485
1512113
4485
25:28
in a few years.
486
1516622
1506
25:30
One of the things I know as a historian
487
1518152
2321
25:32
is that you should never
underestimate human stupidity.
488
1520497
3675
25:36
(Laughter)
489
1524196
2883
25:39
It's one of the most powerful
forces in history,
490
1527103
3084
25:42
human stupidity and human violence.
491
1530211
2327
25:44
Humans do such crazy things
for no obvious reason,
492
1532562
4105
25:48
but again, at the same time,
493
1536691
1710
25:50
another very powerful force
in human history is human wisdom.
494
1538425
3604
25:54
We have both.
495
1542053
1166
25:55
CA: We have with us here
moral psychologist Jonathan Haidt,
496
1543243
2902
25:58
who I think has a question.
497
1546169
1623
26:00
Jonathan Haidt: Thanks, Yuval.
498
1548871
1483
26:02
So you seem to be a fan
of global governance,
499
1550378
2483
26:04
but when you look at the map of the world
from Transparency International,
500
1552885
3520
26:08
which rates the level of corruption
of political institutions,
501
1556429
3328
26:11
it's a vast sea of red with little bits
of yellow here and there
502
1559781
3080
26:14
for those with good institutions.
503
1562885
1605
26:16
So if we were to have
some kind of global governance,
504
1564514
2501
26:19
what makes you think it would end up
being more like Denmark
505
1567039
2831
26:21
rather than more like Russia or Honduras,
506
1569894
2040
26:23
and aren't there alternatives,
507
1571958
1501
26:25
such as we did with CFCs?
508
1573483
2086
26:27
There are ways to solve global problems
with national governments.
509
1575593
3107
26:30
What would world government
actually look like,
510
1578724
2214
26:32
and why do you think it would work?
511
1580962
1721
26:34
YNH: Well, I don't know
what it would look like.
512
1582707
3760
26:38
Nobody still has a model for that.
513
1586491
3052
26:41
The main reason we need it
514
1589567
2628
26:44
is because many of these issues
are lose-lose situations.
515
1592219
4294
26:48
When you have
a win-win situation like trade,
516
1596537
2892
26:51
both sides can benefit
from a trade agreement,
517
1599453
2916
26:54
then this is something you can work out.
518
1602393
2264
26:56
Without some kind of global government,
519
1604681
2346
26:59
national governments each
have an interest in doing it.
520
1607051
2854
27:01
But when you have a lose-lose situation
like with climate change,
521
1609929
3971
27:05
it's much more difficult
522
1613924
1641
27:07
without some overarching
authority, real authority.
523
1615589
4886
27:12
Now, how to get there
and what would it look like,
524
1620499
2762
27:15
I don't know.
525
1623285
1360
27:16
And certainly there is no obvious reason
526
1624669
3737
27:20
to think that it would look like Denmark,
527
1628430
2280
27:22
or that it would be a democracy.
528
1630734
1588
27:24
Most likely it wouldn't.
529
1632346
2586
27:26
We don't have workable democratic models
530
1634956
6031
27:33
for a global government.
531
1641011
2096
27:35
So maybe it would look more
like ancient China
532
1643131
3065
27:38
than like modern Denmark.
533
1646220
1699
27:39
But still, given the dangers
that we are facing,
534
1647943
5223
27:45
I think the imperative of having
some kind of real ability
535
1653190
5120
27:50
to force through difficult decisions
on the global level
536
1658334
4128
27:54
is more important
than almost anything else.
537
1662486
4130
27:59
CA: There's a question from Facebook here,
538
1667591
2098
28:01
and then we'll get the mic to Andrew.
539
1669713
1893
28:03
So, Kat Hebron on Facebook,
540
1671630
2196
28:05
calling in from Vail:
541
1673850
1668
28:07
"How would developed nations manage
the millions of climate migrants?"
542
1675542
4211
28:12
YNH: I don't know.
543
1680818
2154
28:14
CA: That's your answer, Kat. (Laughter)
544
1682996
1892
28:16
YNH: And I don't think
that they know either.
545
1684912
2146
28:19
They'll just deny the problem, maybe.
546
1687082
1794
28:20
CA: But immigration, generally,
is another example of a problem
547
1688900
3025
28:23
that's very hard to solve
on a nation-by-nation basis.
548
1691949
2573
28:26
One nation can shut its doors,
549
1694546
1470
28:28
but maybe that stores up
problems for the future.
550
1696040
2534
28:30
YNH: Yes, I mean --
it's another very good case,
551
1698598
3872
28:34
especially because it's so much easier
552
1702494
2229
28:36
to migrate today
553
1704747
1831
28:38
than it was in the Middle Ages
or in ancient times.
554
1706602
3689
28:42
CA: Yuval, there's a belief
among many technologists, certainly,
555
1710315
4463
28:46
that political concerns
are kind of overblown,
556
1714802
2351
28:49
that actually, political leaders
don't have that much influence
557
1717177
3697
28:52
in the world,
558
1720898
1166
28:54
that the real determination of humanity
at this point is by science,
559
1722088
3969
28:58
by invention, by companies,
560
1726081
1446
28:59
by many things
other than political leaders,
561
1727551
4392
29:03
and it's actually very hard
for leaders to do much,
562
1731967
2411
29:06
so we're actually worrying
about nothing here.
563
1734402
2358
29:10
YNH: Well, first, it should be emphasized
564
1738005
2236
29:12
that it's true that political leaders'
ability to do good is very limited,
565
1740265
4997
29:17
but their ability to do harm is unlimited.
566
1745286
3043
29:20
There is a basic imbalance here.
567
1748353
2600
29:22
You can still press the button
and blow everybody up.
568
1750977
3568
29:26
You have that kind of ability.
569
1754569
1586
29:28
But if you want, for example,
to reduce inequality,
570
1756179
3569
29:31
that's very, very difficult.
571
1759772
1877
29:33
But to start a war,
572
1761673
1396
29:35
you can still do so very easily.
573
1763093
1851
29:36
So there is a built-in imbalance
in the political system today
574
1764968
3592
29:40
which is very frustrating,
575
1768584
1611
29:42
where you cannot do a lot of good
but you can still do a lot of harm.
576
1770219
4901
29:47
And this makes the political system
still a very big concern.
577
1775144
4144
29:51
CA: So as you look at
what's happening today,
578
1779812
2151
29:53
and putting your historian's hat on,
579
1781987
1754
29:55
do you look back in history at moments
when things were going just fine
580
1783765
3526
29:59
and an individual leader really took
the world or their country backwards?
581
1787315
5333
30:05
YNH: There are quite a few examples,
582
1793307
2629
30:07
but I should emphasize,
it's never an individual leader.
583
1795960
2819
30:10
I mean, somebody put him there,
584
1798803
1634
30:12
and somebody allowed him
to continue to be there.
585
1800461
3283
30:15
So it's never really just the fault
of a single individual.
586
1803768
4083
30:19
There are a lot of people
behind every such individual.
587
1807875
4613
30:24
CA: Can we have the microphone
here, please, to Andrew?
588
1812512
3478
30:31
Andrew Solomon: You've talked a lot
about the global versus the national,
589
1819132
3564
30:34
but increasingly, it seems to me,
590
1822720
1626
30:36
the world situation
is in the hands of identity groups.
591
1824370
2643
30:39
We look at people within the United States
592
1827037
2310
30:41
who have been recruited by ISIS.
593
1829371
1627
30:43
We look at these other groups
which have formed
594
1831022
2191
30:45
which go outside of national bounds
595
1833237
1962
30:47
but still represent
significant authorities.
596
1835223
2161
30:49
How are they to be integrated
into the system,
597
1837408
2428
30:51
and how is a diverse set of identities
to be made coherent
598
1839860
3713
30:55
under either national
or global leadership?
599
1843597
2338
30:59
YNH: Well, the problem
of such diverse identities
600
1847380
3221
31:02
is a problem from nationalism as well.
601
1850625
2056
31:05
Nationalism believes
in a single, monolithic identity,
602
1853229
4355
31:09
and exclusive or at least
more extreme versions of nationalism
603
1857608
4116
31:13
believe in an exclusive loyalty
to a single identity.
604
1861748
3569
31:17
And therefore, nationalism has had
a lot of problems
605
1865341
2916
31:20
with people wanting to divide
their identities
606
1868281
2876
31:23
between various groups.
607
1871181
2063
31:25
So it's not just a problem, say,
for a global vision.
608
1873268
4875
31:30
And I think, again, history shows
609
1878540
3852
31:34
that you shouldn't necessarily
think in such exclusive terms.
610
1882416
6127
31:40
If you think that there is just
a single identity for a person,
611
1888567
3408
31:43
"I am just X, that's it, I can't be
several things, I can be just that,"
612
1891999
5040
31:49
that's the start of the problem.
613
1897063
2096
31:51
You have religions, you have nations
614
1899183
2788
31:53
that sometimes demand exclusive loyalty,
615
1901995
3182
31:57
but it's not the only option.
616
1905201
1731
31:58
There are many religions and many nations
617
1906956
2382
32:01
that enable you to have
diverse identities at the same time.
618
1909362
3878
32:05
CA: But is one explanation
of what's happened in the last year
619
1913264
4357
32:09
that a group of people have got
fed up with, if you like,
620
1917645
5180
32:14
the liberal elites,
for want of a better term,
621
1922849
3167
32:18
obsessing over many, many different
identities and them feeling,
622
1926040
4373
32:22
"But what about my identity?
I am being completely ignored here.
623
1930437
3859
32:26
And by the way, I thought
I was the majority"?
624
1934320
2974
32:29
And that that's actually
sparked a lot of the anger.
625
1937318
2981
32:32
YNH: Yeah. Identity is always problematic,
626
1940918
3145
32:36
because identity is always based
on fictional stories
627
1944087
4310
32:40
that sooner or later collide with reality.
628
1948421
2889
32:43
Almost all identities,
629
1951890
1518
32:45
I mean, beyond the level
of the basic community
630
1953432
3411
32:48
of a few dozen people,
631
1956867
1469
32:50
are based on a fictional story.
632
1958360
1929
32:52
They are not the truth.
633
1960313
1641
32:53
They are not the reality.
634
1961978
1315
32:55
It's just a story that people invent
and tell one another
635
1963317
3094
32:58
and start believing.
636
1966435
1491
32:59
And therefore all identities
are extremely unstable.
637
1967950
5320
33:05
They are not a biological reality.
638
1973294
2527
33:07
Sometimes nationalists, for example,
639
1975845
2006
33:09
think that the nation
is a biological entity.
640
1977875
2927
33:12
It's made of the combination
of soil and blood,
641
1980826
3613
33:16
creates the nation.
642
1984463
1702
33:18
But this is just a fictional story.
643
1986189
3092
33:21
CA: Soil and blood
kind of makes a gooey mess.
644
1989305
2563
33:23
(Laughter)
645
1991892
1822
33:25
YNH: It does, and also
it messes with your mind
646
1993738
3024
33:28
when you think too much
that I am a combination of soil and blood.
647
1996786
4784
33:33
If you look from a biological perspective,
648
2001594
2867
33:36
obviously none of the nations
that exist today
649
2004485
3478
33:39
existed 5,000 years ago.
650
2007987
2243
33:42
Homo sapiens is a social animal,
that's for sure.
651
2010254
3858
33:46
But for millions of years,
652
2014136
2427
33:48
Homo sapiens and our hominid ancestors
lived in small communities
653
2016587
4639
33:53
of a few dozen individuals.
654
2021250
2329
33:55
Everybody knew everybody else.
655
2023603
2127
33:57
Whereas modern nations
are imagined communities,
656
2025754
4021
34:01
in the sense that I don't even know
all these people.
657
2029799
2551
34:04
I come from a relatively
small nation, Israel,
658
2032374
2848
34:07
and of eight million Israelis,
659
2035246
2143
34:09
I never met most of them.
660
2037413
1990
34:11
I will never meet most of them.
661
2039427
2308
34:13
They basically exist here.
662
2041759
2562
34:16
CA: But in terms of this identity,
663
2044345
2749
34:19
this group who feel left out
and perhaps have work taken away,
664
2047118
5437
34:24
I mean, in "Homo Deus,"
665
2052579
2294
34:26
you actually speak of this group
in one sense expanding,
666
2054897
3111
34:30
that so many people
may have their jobs taken away
667
2058032
3622
34:33
by technology in some way
that we could end up with
668
2061678
4380
34:38
a really large -- I think you call it
a "useless class" --
669
2066082
3171
34:41
a class where traditionally,
670
2069277
2103
34:43
as viewed by the economy,
these people have no use.
671
2071404
2731
34:46
YNH: Yes.
672
2074159
1198
34:47
CA: How likely a possibility is that?
673
2075381
2931
34:50
Is that something
we should be terrified about?
674
2078336
2744
34:53
And can we address it in any way?
675
2081104
2659
34:55
YNH: We should think about it
very carefully.
676
2083787
2247
34:58
I mean, nobody really knows
what the job market will look like
677
2086058
2971
35:01
in 2040, 2050.
678
2089053
1690
35:02
There is a chance
many new jobs will appear,
679
2090767
2708
35:05
but it's not certain.
680
2093499
1754
35:07
And even if new jobs do appear,
681
2095277
2211
35:09
it won't necessarily be easy
682
2097512
1984
35:11
for a 50-year old unemployed truck driver
683
2099520
2999
35:14
made unemployed by self-driving vehicles,
684
2102543
3033
35:17
it won't be easy
for an unemployed truck driver
685
2105600
3653
35:21
to reinvent himself or herself
as a designer of virtual worlds.
686
2109277
4786
35:26
Previously, if you look at the trajectory
of the industrial revolution,
687
2114087
4182
35:30
when machines replaced humans
in one type of work,
688
2118293
4157
35:34
the solution usually came
from low-skill work
689
2122474
4281
35:38
in new lines of business.
690
2126779
2588
35:41
So you didn't need any more
agricultural workers,
691
2129391
3402
35:44
so people moved to working
in low-skill industrial jobs,
692
2132817
5414
35:50
and when this was taken away
by more and more machines,
693
2138255
3469
35:53
people moved to low-skill service jobs.
694
2141748
2970
35:56
Now, when people say there will
be new jobs in the future,
695
2144742
3360
36:00
that humans can do better than AI,
696
2148126
2429
36:02
that humans can do better than robots,
697
2150579
1830
36:04
they usually think about high-skill jobs,
698
2152433
2640
36:07
like software engineers
designing virtual worlds.
699
2155097
3871
36:10
Now, I don't see how
an unemployed cashier from Wal-Mart
700
2158992
5394
36:16
reinvents herself or himself at 50
as a designer of virtual worlds,
701
2164410
4623
36:21
and certainly I don't see
702
2169057
1471
36:22
how the millions of unemployed
Bangladeshi textile workers
703
2170552
3467
36:26
will be able to do that.
704
2174043
1611
36:27
I mean, if they are going to do it,
705
2175678
1720
36:29
we need to start teaching
the Bangladeshis today
706
2177422
3356
36:32
how to be software designers,
707
2180802
1754
36:34
and we are not doing it.
708
2182580
1243
36:35
So what will they do in 20 years?
709
2183847
2491
36:38
CA: So it feels like you're really
highlighting a question
710
2186362
3914
36:42
that's really been bugging me
the last few months more and more.
711
2190300
4183
36:46
It's almost a hard question
to ask in public,
712
2194507
2855
36:49
but if any mind has some wisdom
to offer in it, maybe it's yours,
713
2197386
3391
36:52
so I'm going to ask you:
714
2200801
1545
36:54
What are humans for?
715
2202370
1878
36:57
YNH: As far as we know, for nothing.
716
2205232
1934
36:59
(Laughter)
717
2207190
1712
37:00
I mean, there is no great cosmic drama,
some great cosmic plan,
718
2208926
5526
37:06
that we have a role to play in.
719
2214476
2841
37:09
And we just need to discover
what our role is
720
2217341
3024
37:12
and then play it to the best
of our ability.
721
2220389
2992
37:15
This has been the story of all religions
and ideologies and so forth,
722
2223405
4978
37:20
but as a scientist, the best I can say
is this is not true.
723
2228407
3478
37:23
There is no universal drama
with a role in it for Homo sapiens.
724
2231909
5358
37:29
So --
725
2237291
1681
37:30
CA: I'm going to push back on you
just for a minute,
726
2238996
2493
37:33
just from your own book,
727
2241513
1194
37:34
because in "Homo Deus,"
728
2242731
1324
37:36
you give really one of the most coherent
and understandable accounts
729
2244079
5059
37:41
about sentience, about consciousness,
730
2249162
2232
37:43
and that unique sort of human skill.
731
2251418
2958
37:46
You point out that it's different
from intelligence,
732
2254400
2493
37:48
the intelligence
that we're building in machines,
733
2256917
2334
37:51
and that there's actually a lot
of mystery around it.
734
2259275
3658
37:54
How can you be sure there's no purpose
735
2262957
3377
37:58
when we don't even understand
what this sentience thing is?
736
2266358
4051
38:02
I mean, in your own thinking,
isn't there a chance
737
2270433
2576
38:05
that what humans are for
is to be the universe's sentient things,
738
2273033
4312
38:09
to be the centers of joy and love
and happiness and hope?
739
2277369
3423
38:12
And maybe we can build machines
that actually help amplify that,
740
2280816
3035
38:15
even if they're not going to become
sentient themselves?
741
2283875
2664
38:18
Is that crazy?
742
2286563
1151
38:19
I kind of found myself hoping that,
reading your book.
743
2287738
3483
38:23
YNH: Well, I certainly think that the most
interesting question today in science
744
2291245
3857
38:27
is the question
of consciousness and the mind.
745
2295126
2423
38:29
We are getting better and better
in understanding the brain
746
2297573
3498
38:33
and intelligence,
747
2301095
1260
38:34
but we are not getting much better
748
2302379
2537
38:36
in understanding the mind
and consciousness.
749
2304940
2343
38:39
People often confuse intelligence
and consciousness,
750
2307307
3362
38:42
especially in places like Silicon Valley,
751
2310693
2299
38:45
which is understandable,
because in humans, they go together.
752
2313016
3757
38:48
I mean, intelligence basically
is the ability to solve problems.
753
2316797
3579
38:52
Consciousness is the ability
to feel things,
754
2320400
2542
38:54
to feel joy and sadness
and boredom and pain and so forth.
755
2322966
5212
39:00
In Homo sapiens and all other mammals
as well -- it's not unique to humans --
756
2328202
4039
39:04
in all mammals and birds
and some other animals,
757
2332265
2647
39:06
intelligence and consciousness
go together.
758
2334936
2650
39:09
We often solve problems by feeling things.
759
2337610
3578
39:13
So we tend to confuse them.
760
2341212
1493
39:14
But they are different things.
761
2342729
1465
39:16
What's happening today
in places like Silicon Valley
762
2344218
3088
39:19
is that we are creating
artificial intelligence
763
2347330
3626
39:22
but not artificial consciousness.
764
2350980
1822
39:24
There has been an amazing development
in computer intelligence
765
2352826
3380
39:28
over the last 50 years,
766
2356230
1562
39:29
and exactly zero development
in computer consciousness,
767
2357816
4201
39:34
and there is no indication that computers
are going to become conscious
768
2362041
3686
39:37
anytime soon.
769
2365751
2531
39:40
So first of all, if there is
some cosmic role for consciousness,
770
2368306
5650
39:45
it's not unique to Homo sapiens.
771
2373980
2130
39:48
Cows are conscious, pigs are conscious,
772
2376134
2319
39:50
chimpanzees are conscious,
chickens are conscious,
773
2378477
2833
39:53
so if we go that way, first of all,
we need to broaden our horizons
774
2381334
3853
39:57
and remember very clearly we are not
the only sentient beings on Earth,
775
2385211
4725
40:01
and when it comes to sentience --
776
2389960
1795
40:03
when it comes to intelligence,
there is good reason to think
777
2391779
3312
40:07
we are the most intelligent
of the whole bunch.
778
2395115
3296
40:10
But when it comes to sentience,
779
2398435
2574
40:13
to say that humans are more
sentient than whales,
780
2401033
3158
40:16
or more sentient than baboons
or more sentient than cats,
781
2404215
4147
40:20
I see no evidence for that.
782
2408386
2294
40:22
So first step is, you go
in that direction, expand.
783
2410704
3607
40:26
And then the second question
of what is it for,
784
2414335
3982
40:30
I would reverse it
785
2418341
1782
40:32
and I would say that I don't think
sentience is for anything.
786
2420147
4236
40:36
I think we don't need
to find our role in the universe.
787
2424407
4172
40:40
The really important thing
is to liberate ourselves from suffering.
788
2428603
5813
40:46
What characterizes sentient beings
789
2434440
2993
40:49
in contrast to robots, to stones,
790
2437457
2720
40:52
to whatever,
791
2440201
1183
40:53
is that sentient beings
suffer, can suffer,
792
2441408
3791
40:57
and what they should focus on
793
2445223
2340
40:59
is not finding their place
in some mysterious cosmic drama.
794
2447587
4120
41:03
They should focus on understanding
what suffering is,
795
2451731
3819
41:07
what causes it and how
to be liberated from it.
796
2455574
3359
41:11
CA: I know this is a big issue for you,
and that was very eloquent.
797
2459572
3477
41:15
We're going to have a blizzard
of questions from the audience here,
798
2463073
3414
41:18
and maybe from Facebook as well,
799
2466511
1920
41:20
and maybe some comments as well.
800
2468455
1673
41:22
So let's go quick.
801
2470152
1796
41:23
There's one right here.
802
2471972
1430
41:27
Keep your hands held up
at the back if you want the mic,
803
2475052
2809
41:29
and we'll get it back to you.
804
2477885
1419
41:31
Question: In your work, you talk a lot
about the fictional stories
805
2479328
3119
41:34
that we accept as truth,
806
2482471
1344
41:35
and we live our lives by it.
807
2483839
1717
41:37
As an individual, knowing that,
808
2485580
2499
41:40
how does it impact the stories
that you choose to live your life,
809
2488103
3746
41:43
and do you confuse them
with the truth, like all of us?
810
2491873
3740
41:48
YNH: I try not to.
811
2496246
1211
41:49
I mean, for me, maybe the most
important question,
812
2497481
2768
41:52
both as a scientist and as a person,
813
2500273
2478
41:54
is how to tell the difference
between fiction and reality,
814
2502775
3875
41:58
because reality is there.
815
2506674
2596
42:01
I'm not saying that everything is fiction.
816
2509294
2082
42:03
It's just very difficult for human beings
to tell the difference
817
2511400
3052
42:06
between fiction and reality,
818
2514476
1617
42:08
and it has become more and more difficult
as history progressed,
819
2516117
4945
42:13
because the fictions
that we have created --
820
2521086
2451
42:15
nations and gods and money
and corporations --
821
2523561
3168
42:18
they now control the world.
822
2526753
1510
42:20
So just to even think,
823
2528287
1177
42:21
"Oh, this is just all fictional entities
that we've created,"
824
2529488
3145
42:24
is very difficult.
825
2532657
1447
42:26
But reality is there.
826
2534128
2280
42:29
For me the best ...
827
2537043
2005
42:31
There are several tests
828
2539072
2123
42:33
to tell the difference
between fiction and reality.
829
2541219
2770
42:36
The simplest one, the best one
that I can say in short,
830
2544013
3426
42:39
is the test of suffering.
831
2547463
1581
42:41
If it can suffer, it's real.
832
2549068
1553
42:43
If it can't suffer, it's not real.
833
2551192
1694
42:44
A nation cannot suffer.
834
2552910
1465
42:46
That's very, very clear.
835
2554399
1570
42:47
Even if a nation loses a war,
836
2555993
1938
42:49
we say, "Germany suffered a defeat
in the First World War,"
837
2557955
4065
42:54
it's a metaphor.
838
2562044
1165
42:55
Germany cannot suffer.
Germany has no mind.
839
2563233
2557
42:57
Germany has no consciousness.
840
2565814
1653
42:59
Germans can suffer, yes,
but Germany cannot.
841
2567491
3658
43:03
Similarly, when a bank goes bust,
842
2571173
2969
43:06
the bank cannot suffer.
843
2574166
1771
43:07
When the dollar loses its value,
the dollar doesn't suffer.
844
2575961
3391
43:11
People can suffer. Animals can suffer.
845
2579376
2250
43:13
This is real.
846
2581650
1156
43:14
So I would start, if you
really want to see reality,
847
2582830
4529
43:19
I would go through the door of suffering.
848
2587383
2064
43:21
If you can really understand
what suffering is,
849
2589471
2954
43:24
this will give you also the key
850
2592449
2223
43:26
to understand what reality is.
851
2594696
2017
43:28
CA: There's a Facebook question
here that connects to this,
852
2596737
2783
43:31
from someone around the world
in a language that I cannot read.
853
2599544
2977
43:34
YNH: Oh, it's Hebrew.
CA: Hebrew. There you go.
854
2602545
2217
43:36
(Laughter)
855
2604786
1062
43:37
Can you read the name?
856
2605872
1164
43:39
YNH: [??]
857
2607060
1875
43:40
CA: Well, thank you for writing in.
858
2608959
1844
43:42
The question is: "Is the post-truth era
really a brand-new era,
859
2610827
4555
43:47
or just another climax or moment
in a never-ending trend?
860
2615406
4387
43:52
YNH: Personally, I don't connect
with this idea of post-truth.
861
2620701
3329
43:56
My basic reaction as a historian is:
862
2624054
2708
43:58
If this is the era of post-truth,
when the hell was the era of truth?
863
2626786
3895
44:02
CA: Right.
864
2630705
1251
44:03
(Laughter)
865
2631980
1320
44:05
YNH: Was it the 1980s, the 1950s,
the Middle Ages?
866
2633324
4683
44:10
I mean, we have always lived
in an era, in a way, of post-truth.
867
2638031
4392
44:14
CA: But I'd push back on that,
868
2642883
2311
44:17
because I think what people
are talking about
869
2645218
2670
44:19
is that there was a world
where you had fewer journalistic outlets,
870
2647912
6960
44:26
where there were traditions,
that things were fact-checked.
871
2654896
3648
44:30
It was incorporated into the charter
of those organizations
872
2658568
3945
44:34
that the truth mattered.
873
2662537
2167
44:36
So if you believe in a reality,
874
2664728
1749
44:38
then what you write is information.
875
2666501
2223
44:40
There was a belief that that information
should connect to reality in a real way,
876
2668748
3821
44:44
and if you wrote a headline,
it was a serious, earnest attempt
877
2672593
2961
44:47
to reflect something
that had actually happened.
878
2675578
2303
44:49
And people didn't always get it right.
879
2677905
1851
44:51
But I think the concern now is you've got
880
2679780
2009
44:53
a technological system
that's incredibly powerful
881
2681813
2318
44:56
that, for a while at least,
massively amplified anything
882
2684155
4170
45:00
with no attention paid to whether
it connected to reality,
883
2688349
2780
45:03
only to whether it connected
to clicks and attention,
884
2691153
3154
45:06
and that that was arguably toxic.
885
2694331
1616
45:07
That's a reasonable concern, isn't it?
886
2695971
2436
45:10
YNH: Yeah, it is. I mean,
the technology changes,
887
2698431
2286
45:12
and it's now easier to disseminate
both truth and fiction and falsehood.
888
2700741
5228
45:17
It goes both ways.
889
2705993
2003
45:20
It's also much easier, though, to spread
the truth than it was ever before.
890
2708020
4579
45:24
But I don't think there
is anything essentially new
891
2712623
3685
45:28
about this disseminating
fictions and errors.
892
2716332
4720
45:33
There is nothing that -- I don't know --
Joseph Goebbels, didn't know
893
2721076
4034
45:37
about all this idea of fake
news and post-truth.
894
2725134
5439
45:42
He famously said that if you repeat
a lie often enough,
895
2730597
3718
45:46
people will think it's the truth,
896
2734339
1821
45:48
and the bigger the lie, the better,
897
2736184
2356
45:50
because people won't even think
that something so big can be a lie.
898
2738564
6023
45:56
I think that fake news
has been with us for thousands of years.
899
2744611
5658
46:02
Just think of the Bible.
900
2750293
1901
46:04
(Laughter)
901
2752218
1387
46:05
CA: But there is a concern
902
2753629
1287
46:06
that the fake news is associated
with tyrannical regimes,
903
2754940
4017
46:10
and when you see an uprise in fake news
904
2758981
2577
46:13
that is a canary in the coal mine
that there may be dark times coming.
905
2761582
4722
46:20
YNH: Yeah. I mean, the intentional use
of fake news is a disturbing sign.
906
2768124
6962
46:27
But I'm not saying that it's not bad,
I'm just saying that it's not new.
907
2775812
4581
46:32
CA: There's a lot of interest
on Facebook on this question
908
2780820
2754
46:35
about global governance
versus nationalism.
909
2783598
5000
46:41
Question here from Phil Dennis:
910
2789292
1508
46:42
"How do we get people, governments,
to relinquish power?
911
2790824
3496
46:46
Is that -- is that --
actually, the text is so big
912
2794344
3915
46:50
I can't read the full question.
913
2798283
1540
46:51
But is that a necessity?
914
2799847
1539
46:53
Is it going to take war to get there?
915
2801410
2612
46:56
Sorry Phil -- I mangled your question,
but I blame the text right here.
916
2804046
3690
46:59
YNH: One option
that some people talk about
917
2807760
2100
47:01
is that only a catastrophe
can shake humankind
918
2809884
4739
47:06
and open the path to a real system
of global governance,
919
2814647
5264
47:11
and they say that we can't do it
before the catastrophe,
920
2819935
4148
47:16
but we need to start
laying the foundations
921
2824107
2801
47:18
so that when the disaster strikes,
922
2826932
2500
47:21
we can react quickly.
923
2829456
2182
47:23
But people will just not have
the motivation to do such a thing
924
2831662
4000
47:27
before the disaster strikes.
925
2835686
2012
47:29
Another thing that I would emphasize
926
2837722
2265
47:32
is that anybody who is really
interested in global governance
927
2840011
5054
47:37
should always make it very, very clear
928
2845089
2901
47:40
that it doesn't replace or abolish
local identities and communities,
929
2848014
6584
47:46
that it should come both as --
930
2854622
2956
47:49
It should be part of a single package.
931
2857602
3307
47:52
CA: I want to hear more on this,
932
2860933
3378
47:56
because the very words "global governance"
933
2864335
3053
47:59
are almost the epitome of evil
in the mindset of a lot of people
934
2867412
4589
48:04
on the alt-right right now.
935
2872025
1326
48:05
It just seems scary, remote, distant,
and it has let them down,
936
2873375
2954
48:08
and so globalists,
global governance -- no, go away!
937
2876353
4116
48:12
And many view the election
as the ultimate poke in the eye
938
2880493
3682
48:16
to anyone who believes in that.
939
2884199
1478
48:17
So how do we change the narrative
940
2885701
3551
48:21
so that it doesn't seem
so scary and remote?
941
2889276
2975
48:24
Build more on this idea
of it being compatible
942
2892275
2744
48:27
with local identity, local communities.
943
2895043
2621
48:29
YNH: Well, I think again we should start
944
2897688
2600
48:32
really with the biological realities
945
2900312
3132
48:35
of Homo sapiens.
946
2903468
2011
48:37
And biology tells us two things
about Homo sapiens
947
2905503
4118
48:41
which are very relevant to this issue:
948
2909645
2257
48:43
first of all, that we are
completely dependent
949
2911926
3029
48:46
on the ecological system around us,
950
2914979
2595
48:49
and that today we are talking
about a global system.
951
2917598
3459
48:53
You cannot escape that.
952
2921081
1357
48:54
And at the same time, biology tells us
about Homo sapiens
953
2922462
3622
48:58
that we are social animals,
954
2926108
2247
49:00
but that we are social
on a very, very local level.
955
2928379
4637
49:05
It's just a simple fact of humanity
956
2933040
3545
49:08
that we cannot have intimate familiarity
957
2936609
4797
49:13
with more than about 150 individuals.
958
2941430
3875
49:17
The size of the natural group,
959
2945329
4297
49:21
the natural community of Homo sapiens,
960
2949650
3102
49:24
is not more than 150 individuals,
961
2952776
3344
49:28
and everything beyond that is really
based on all kinds of imaginary stories
962
2956144
6399
49:34
and large-scale institutions,
963
2962567
2047
49:36
and I think that we can find a way,
964
2964638
4376
49:41
again, based on a biological
understanding of our species,
965
2969038
4570
49:45
to weave the two together
966
2973632
2082
49:47
and to understand that today
in the 21st century,
967
2975738
3076
49:50
we need both the global level
and the local community.
968
2978838
5536
49:56
And I would go even further than that
969
2984398
2017
49:58
and say that it starts
with the body itself.
970
2986439
3323
50:02
The feelings that people today have
of alienation and loneliness
971
2990500
4342
50:06
and not finding their place in the world,
972
2994866
3216
50:10
I would think that the chief problem
is not global capitalism.
973
2998106
5729
50:16
The chief problem is that over
the last hundred years,
974
3004285
3026
50:19
people have been becoming disembodied,
975
3007335
3704
50:23
have been distancing themselves
from their body.
976
3011063
3159
50:26
As a hunter-gatherer or even as a peasant,
977
3014246
2896
50:29
to survive, you need to be
constantly in touch
978
3017166
4198
50:33
with your body and with your senses,
979
3021388
2183
50:35
every moment.
980
3023595
1181
50:36
If you go to the forest
to look for mushrooms
981
3024800
2147
50:38
and you don't pay attention
to what you hear,
982
3026971
2377
50:41
to what you smell, to what you taste,
983
3029372
1876
50:43
you're dead.
984
3031272
1151
50:44
So you must be very connected.
985
3032447
2151
50:46
In the last hundred years,
people are losing their ability
986
3034622
4596
50:51
to be in touch with their body
and their senses,
987
3039242
2872
50:54
to hear, to smell, to feel.
988
3042138
2186
50:56
More and more attention goes to screens,
989
3044348
3126
50:59
to what is happening elsewhere,
990
3047498
1520
51:01
some other time.
991
3049042
1221
51:02
This, I think, is the deep reason
992
3050287
2431
51:04
for the feelings of alienation
and loneliness and so forth,
993
3052742
3894
51:08
and therefore part of the solution
994
3056660
2502
51:11
is not to bring back
some mass nationalism,
995
3059186
4264
51:15
but also reconnect with our own bodies,
996
3063474
4124
51:19
and if you are back
in touch with your body,
997
3067622
3263
51:22
you will feel much more at home
in the world also.
998
3070909
3170
51:26
CA: Well, depending on how things go,
we may all be back in the forest soon.
999
3074103
3685
51:29
We're going to have
one more question in the room
1000
3077812
2349
51:32
and one more on Facebook.
1001
3080185
1503
51:33
Ama Adi-Dako: Hello. I'm from Ghana,
West Africa, and my question is:
1002
3081712
3381
51:37
I'm wondering how do you present
and justify the idea of global governance
1003
3085117
4602
51:41
to countries that have been
historically disenfranchised
1004
3089743
3011
51:44
by the effects of globalization,
1005
3092778
2045
51:46
and also, if we're talking about
global governance,
1006
3094847
2746
51:49
it sounds to me like it will definitely
come from a very Westernized idea
1007
3097617
3624
51:53
of what the "global"
is supposed to look like.
1008
3101265
2174
51:55
So how do we present and justify
that idea of global
1009
3103463
3290
51:58
versus wholly nationalist
1010
3106777
2993
52:01
to people in countries like Ghana
and Nigeria and Togo
1011
3109794
3335
52:05
and other countries like that?
1012
3113153
2176
52:08
YNH: I would start by saying
that history is extremely unfair,
1013
3116131
6414
52:14
and that we should realize that.
1014
3122569
3922
52:19
Many of the countries that suffered most
1015
3127004
3049
52:22
from the last 200 years of globalization
1016
3130077
4139
52:26
and imperialism and industrialization
1017
3134240
1960
52:28
are exactly the countries
which are also most likely to suffer most
1018
3136224
5710
52:33
from the next wave.
1019
3141958
2789
52:36
And we should be very,
very clear about that.
1020
3144771
3994
52:41
If we don't have a global governance,
1021
3149477
3051
52:44
and if we suffer from climate change,
1022
3152552
3203
52:47
from technological disruptions,
1023
3155779
2257
52:50
the worst suffering will not be in the US.
1024
3158060
3601
52:53
The worst suffering will be in Ghana,
will be in Sudan, will be in Syria,
1025
3161685
5096
52:58
will be in Bangladesh,
will be in those places.
1026
3166805
2737
53:01
So I think those countries
have an even greater incentive
1027
3169566
6036
53:07
to do something about
the next wave of disruption,
1028
3175626
4727
53:12
whether it's ecological
or whether it's technological.
1029
3180377
2525
53:14
Again, if you think about
technological disruption,
1030
3182926
2846
53:17
so if AI and 3D printers and robots
will take the jobs
1031
3185796
4616
53:22
from billions of people,
1032
3190436
2369
53:24
I worry far less about the Swedes
1033
3192829
3125
53:27
than about the people in Ghana
or in Bangladesh.
1034
3195978
3605
53:31
And therefore,
because history is so unfair
1035
3199607
5228
53:36
and the results of a calamity
1036
3204859
4346
53:41
will not be shared equally
between everybody,
1037
3209229
2368
53:43
as usual, the rich
will be able to get away
1038
3211621
4433
53:48
from the worst consequences
of climate change
1039
3216078
3472
53:51
in a way that the poor
will not be able to.
1040
3219574
2845
53:55
CA: And here's a great question
from Cameron Taylor on Facebook:
1041
3223347
3408
53:58
"At the end of 'Sapiens,'"
1042
3226779
2121
54:00
you said we should be asking the question,
1043
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54:03
'What do we want to want?'
1044
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2356
54:05
Well, what do you think
we should want to want?"
1045
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2987
54:08
YNH: I think we should want
to want to know the truth,
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3531
54:11
to understand reality.
1047
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54:15
Mostly what we want is to change reality,
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5114
54:20
to fit it to our own desires,
to our own wishes,
1049
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3718
54:24
and I think we should first
want to understand it.
1050
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3720
54:27
If you look at the long-term
trajectory of history,
1051
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3764
54:31
what you see is that
for thousands of years
1052
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2736
54:34
we humans have been gaining
control of the world outside us
1053
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3336
54:37
and trying to shape it
to fit our own desires.
1054
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3494
54:41
And we've gained control
of the other animals,
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3188
54:44
of the rivers, of the forests,
1056
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1531
54:46
and reshaped them completely,
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3493
54:49
causing an ecological destruction
1058
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3361
54:52
without making ourselves satisfied.
1059
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3178
54:56
So the next step
is we turn our gaze inwards,
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3802
54:59
and we say OK, getting control
of the world outside us
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55:04
did not really make us satisfied.
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55:06
Let's now try to gain control
of the world inside us.
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2699
55:09
This is the really big project
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2163
55:11
of science and technology
and industry in the 21st century --
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4296
55:15
to try and gain control
of the world inside us,
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3522
55:19
to learn how to engineer and produce
bodies and brains and minds.
1067
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4923
55:24
These are likely to be the main
products of the 21st century economy.
1068
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4642
55:28
When people think about the future,
very often they think in terms,
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3821
55:32
"Oh, I want to gain control
of my body and of my brain."
1070
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3947
55:36
And I think that's very dangerous.
1071
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2810
55:39
If we've learned anything
from our previous history,
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55:42
it's that yes, we gain
the power to manipulate,
1073
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3913
55:46
but because we didn't really
understand the complexity
1074
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2790
55:49
of the ecological system,
1075
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1805
55:51
we are now facing an ecological meltdown.
1076
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3690
55:55
And if we now try to reengineer
the world inside us
1077
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5406
56:00
without really understanding it,
1078
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2132
56:02
especially without understanding
the complexity of our mental system,
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4316
56:06
we might cause a kind of internal
ecological disaster,
1080
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4660
56:11
and we'll face a kind of mental
meltdown inside us.
1081
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3543
56:16
CA: Putting all the pieces
together here --
1082
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2442
56:18
the current politics,
the coming technology,
1083
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2680
56:21
concerns like the one
you've just outlined --
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2150
56:23
I mean, it seems like you yourself
are in quite a bleak place
1085
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3095
56:26
when you think about the future.
1086
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1621
56:28
You're pretty worried about it.
1087
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1582
56:29
Is that right?
1088
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1192
56:31
And if there was one cause for hope,
how would you state that?
1089
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6688
56:37
YNH: I focus on the most
dangerous possibilities
1090
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4163
56:42
partly because this is like
my job or responsibility
1091
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3021
56:45
as a historian or social critic.
1092
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1781
56:46
I mean, the industry focuses mainly
on the positive sides,
1093
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4762
56:51
so it's the job of historians
and philosophers and sociologists
1094
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3361
56:55
to highlight the more dangerous potential
of all these new technologies.
1095
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4441
56:59
I don't think any of that is inevitable.
1096
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2483
57:02
Technology is never deterministic.
1097
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3039
57:05
You can use the same technology
1098
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1717
57:06
to create very different
kinds of societies.
1099
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2991
57:09
If you look at the 20th century,
1100
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2038
57:11
so, the technologies
of the Industrial Revolution,
1101
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2781
57:14
the trains and electricity and all that
1102
3422778
3057
57:17
could be used to create
a communist dictatorship
1103
3425859
3052
57:20
or a fascist regime
or a liberal democracy.
1104
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2805
57:23
The trains did not tell you
what to do with them.
1105
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2528
57:26
Similarly, now, artificial intelligence
and bioengineering and all of that --
1106
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4452
57:30
they don't predetermine a single outcome.
1107
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3514
57:34
Humanity can rise up to the challenge,
1108
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3177
57:38
and the best example we have
1109
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1691
57:39
of humanity rising up
to the challenge of a new technology
1110
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3740
57:43
is nuclear weapons.
1111
3451566
1723
57:45
In the late 1940s, '50s,
1112
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3009
57:48
many people were convinced
1113
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2139
57:50
that sooner or later the Cold War
will end in a nuclear catastrophe,
1114
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4306
57:54
destroying human civilization.
1115
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1775
57:56
And this did not happen.
1116
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1480
57:58
In fact, nuclear weapons prompted
humans all over the world
1117
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6420
58:04
to change the way that they manage
international politics
1118
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4741
58:09
to reduce violence.
1119
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2369
58:11
And many countries basically took out war
1120
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3239
58:15
from their political toolkit.
1121
3483007
1874
58:16
They no longer tried to pursue
their interests with warfare.
1122
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4270
58:21
Not all countries have done so,
but many countries have.
1123
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3270
58:24
And this is maybe
the most important reason
1124
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3934
58:28
why international violence
declined dramatically since 1945,
1125
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6102
58:34
and today, as I said,
more people commit suicide
1126
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3338
58:38
than are killed in war.
1127
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2207
58:40
So this, I think, gives us a good example
1128
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4829
58:45
that even the most frightening technology,
1129
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3842
58:49
humans can rise up to the challenge
1130
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2535
58:51
and actually some good can come out of it.
1131
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3023
58:54
The problem is, we have very little
margin for error.
1132
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4287
58:59
If we don't get it right,
1133
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2209
59:01
we might not have
a second option to try again.
1134
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3671
59:06
CA: That's a very powerful note,
1135
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1567
59:07
on which I think we should draw
this to a conclusion.
1136
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2805
59:10
Before I wrap up, I just want to say
one thing to people here
1137
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3111
59:13
and to the global TED community
watching online, anyone watching online:
1138
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5546
59:19
help us with these dialogues.
1139
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2893
59:22
If you believe, like we do,
1140
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2550
59:24
that we need to find
a different kind of conversation,
1141
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2980
59:27
now more than ever, help us do it.
1142
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2233
59:30
Reach out to other people,
1143
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2023
59:33
try and have conversations
with people you disagree with,
1144
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2740
59:36
understand them,
1145
3564033
1183
59:37
pull the pieces together,
1146
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1530
59:38
and help us figure out how to take
these conversations forward
1147
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3892
59:42
so we can make a real contribution
1148
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2254
59:44
to what's happening
in the world right now.
1149
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2745
59:47
I think everyone feels more alive,
1150
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3319
59:51
more concerned, more engaged
1151
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2310
59:53
with the politics of the moment.
1152
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2529
59:55
The stakes do seem quite high,
1153
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2454
59:58
so help us respond to it
in a wise, wise way.
1154
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4512
00:03
Yuval Harari, thank you.
1155
3591001
1595
00:04
(Applause)
1156
3592620
3308

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Yuval Noah Harari - Historian, author
In his book "Homo Deus," Yuval Noah Harari explores the future of humankind: the destinies we may set for ourselves and the quests we'll undertake.

Why you should listen

In his book, Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow, Yuval Noah Harari explores the projects, dreams and nightmares that will shape the 21st century -- from overcoming death to creating artificial life. He maps the future and asks fundamental questions: Where do we go from here? How will we protect this fragile world from our own destructive powers? The book has sold four million copies since its publication in 2016.

Harari's previous book, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, explores what made homo sapiens the most successful species on the planet. His answer: We are the only animal that can believe in things that exist purely in our imagination, such as gods, states, money, human rights, corporations and other fictions, and we have developed a unique ability to use these stories to unify and organize groups and ensure cooperation. Sapiens has sold eight million copies and been translated into more than 50 languages. Bill GatesMark Zuckerberg and President Barack Obama have recommended it as a must-read.

Harari lectures as a Professor of history at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, where he specializes in world history, medieval history and military history. His current research focuses on macro-historical questions: What is the relationship between history and biology? What is the essential difference between Homo sapiens and other animals? Is there justice in history? Does history have a direction? Did people become happier as history unfolded? Harari has written for newspapers such as The Guardian, Financial Times, the Times, Nature magazine and the Wall Street Journal.

Harari's new book, 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, will take the pulse of our current global climate, focusing on the biggest questions of the present moment: What is really happening right now? What are today’s greatest challenges and choices? What should we pay attention to? The book will be published in multiple languages in September 2018.

More profile about the speaker
Yuval Noah Harari | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com