TEDxMidAtlantic
Charles Limb: Your brain on improv
Charles Limb: Váš mozog pri improvizácii
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Hudobník a výskumník Charles Limb si lámal hlavu nad tým, ako mozog funguje pri hudobnej improvizácii. Aby to zistil, dal jazzových hudobníkov a raperov do fMRI skenera. To, čo so svojím tímom objavil, má dopad na naše chápanie tvorivosti akéhokoľvek druhu.
Charles Limb - Researcher
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
So I am a surgeon who studies creativity,
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Som chirurg, ktorý skúma tvorivosť.
00:18
and I have never had a patient tell me
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Ale ešte nikdy mi pacient nepovedal:
00:21
that "I really want you to be creative during surgery,"
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"Chcem, aby ste boli tvorivý počas operácie."
00:24
and so I guess there's a little bit of irony to it.
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Je v tom asi trocha irónie.
00:27
I will say though that, after having done surgery a lot,
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Napriek tomu poviem, že mám za sebou už veľa operácií
00:30
it's somewhat similar to playing a musical instrument.
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a je to trochu ako hrať na hudobnom nástroji.
00:32
And for me, this sort of deep and enduring fascination with sound
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Čo sa mňa týka, práve táto hlboká a pretrvávajúca fascinácia zvukom
00:35
is what led me to both be a surgeon
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ma priviedla k chirurgii
00:37
and also to study the science of sound, particularly music.
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a tiež štúdiu zvukov, zvlášť hudby.
00:39
And so I'm going to try to talk to you over the next few minutes
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Takže vám v nabližších minútach poviem
00:41
about my career
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o svojej kariére,
00:43
in terms of how I'm able to actually try to study music
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v zmysle, ako môžem vedecky skúmať hudbu
00:45
and really try to grapple with all these questions
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a zápasiť s otázkami,
00:47
of how the brain is able to be creative.
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ako je mozog schopný tvorivosti.
00:50
I've done most of this work at Johns Hopkins University,
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Tejto práci som sa venoval hlavne na Univerzite Johna Hopkinsa
00:52
but also at the National Institute of Health where I was previously.
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ale takisto na Národnom Inštitúte Zdravia, kde som bol predtým.
00:54
I'm going to go over some science experiments
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Prejdem teraz zopár vedeckými experimentami
00:56
and try to cover three musical experiments.
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a budem sa zaoberať troma hudobnými pokusmi.
00:58
I'm going to start off by playing a video for you.
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Začnem tým, že vám prehrám video.
01:00
And this video is a video of Keith Jarrett, who's a well-known jazz improviser
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Je to video Keitha Jarretta, ktorý je dobre známy jazzový improvizátor
01:03
and probably the most well-known, iconic example
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a pravdepodobne najznámejší ikonický príklad
01:06
of someone who takes improvisation to a really higher level.
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niekoho, kto improvizáciu posunul na vyššiu úroveň.
01:08
And he'll improvise entire concerts
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Improvizoval celé koncerty
01:10
off the top of his head,
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len tak z hlavy,
01:12
and he'll never play it exactly the same way again,
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a nikdy ich nehral rovnako.
01:14
and so, as a form of intense creativity,
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Takže, čo sa týka skutočnej tvorivosti,
01:16
I think this is a great example.
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myslím, že toto je skvelý príklad.
01:18
And so why don't we go and click the video.
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Takže poďme spustiť to video.
01:21
(Music)
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(Hudba)
02:17
It's really a remarkable, awesome thing that happens there.
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Skutočne pozoruhodná, úžasná vec, čo sa tam odohralo.
02:20
I've always -- just as a listener, as just a fan --
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Vždy keď to - ako poslucháč, ako fanúšik -
02:22
I listen to that, and I'm just astounded.
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počujem, som ohromený.
02:24
I think -- how can this possibly be?
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Rozmýšľam, ako je to vôbec možné.
02:26
How can the brain generate that much information,
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Ako môže mozog generovať toľko informácií,
02:28
that much music, spontaneously?
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spontánne toľko hudby?
02:30
And so I set out with this concept, scientifically,
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Tak som si to vyjasnil tak, vedecky
02:33
that artistic creativity, it's magical, but it's not magic,
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že umelecká tvorivosť je magická ale mágia to nie je.
02:36
meaning that it's a product of the brain.
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To znamená, že je produktom mozgu.
02:38
There's not too many brain-dead people creating art.
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Nepoznám umelca, ktorý by tvoril a nemal funkčný mozog.
02:41
And so with this notion that artistic creativity
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A s touto predstavou, že umelecká tvorivosť
02:43
is in fact a neurologic product,
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je v skutočnosti neurologický produkt,
02:45
I took this thesis that we could study it
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som túto tézu pripravil na preskúmanie
02:48
just like we study any other complex neurologic process.
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tak, ako môžme skúmať iné zložité neurologické procesy.
02:51
And I think there's some sub-questions there that I put there.
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A doplnil som tam nejaké podotázky.
02:53
Is it truly possible to study creativity scientifically?
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Je vôbec možné vedecky skúmať tvorivosť?
02:55
And I think that's a good question.
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Myslím, že to je dobrá otázka.
02:57
And I'll tell you that most scientific studies of music,
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A poviem vám, že väčšina vedeckých štúdií hudby,
03:00
they're very dense,
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zhutňuje obrovské množstvo informácií.
03:02
and when you actually go through them, it's very hard to recognize the music in it.
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A keď sa cez ne prelúskate, je ťažke tam hudbu ešte rozlíšiť.
03:05
In fact, they seem to be very unmusical entirely
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V skutočnosti sa zdajú úplne nemuzikálne
03:07
and to miss the whole point of the music.
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a chýba im ústredná téma hudby.
03:09
And so it brings the second question:
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To prináša druhú otázku.
03:11
Why should scientists study creativity?
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Prečo by mali tvorivosť skúmať vedci?
03:13
Maybe we're not the right people to do it.
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Možno oni na to nie sú tí správni ľudia.
03:15
Well it may be,
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Možno ale
03:17
but I will say that, from a scientific perspective --
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z vedeckej perspektívy
03:19
we talked a lot about innovation today --
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a dnes sme už hovorili o mnohých inováciách
03:21
the science of innovation,
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veda je inováciou
03:23
how much we understand about how the brain is able to innovate
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skúmanie toho, ako je mozog schopný inovácie
03:25
is in its infancy,
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je ešte v začiatkoch.
03:27
and truly, we know very little about how we are able to be creative.
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Popravde, vieme veľmi málo o tom, ako sme schopní tvorivosti.
03:30
And so I think that we're going to see
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Takže si myslím, že uvidíme
03:32
over the next 10, 20, 30 years
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v najbližších 10, 20, 30 rokov
03:34
a real science of creativity that's burgeoning and is going to flourish.
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ozastnú vedu tvorivosti, ktorá bude prekvitať.
03:37
Because we now have new methods that can enable us
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Pretože teraz máme nové metódy, ktoré nám umožňujú
03:39
to take this process of something like this,
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uchopiť aj takýto proces,
03:41
complex jazz improvisation, and study it rigorously.
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ako komplexná jazzová improvizácia a rigorózne ho skúmať.
03:43
And so it gets down to the brain.
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Takže sa to zúži na mozog.
03:45
And so all of us have this remarkable brain,
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Všetci máme ten pozoruhodný mozog,
03:47
which is poorly understood to say the least.
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ktorému rozumieme len veľmi málo.
03:50
I think that neuroscientists
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Myslím, že neurovedci
03:52
have many more questions than answers,
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majú viac otázok než odpovedí.
03:54
and I myself, I'm not going to give you many answers today,
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A ani ja vám dnes nedám veľa odpovedí,
03:56
just ask a lot of questions.
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len sa spýtam mnoho otázok.
03:58
And fundamentally that's what I do in my lab.
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To je v podstate to, čo robím v svojom laboratóriu.
04:00
I ask questions about what is this brain doing to enable us to do this.
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Pýtam sa otázky, čo mozog robí, keď nám umožňuje robiť to či ono.
04:02
This is the main method that I use. This is called functional MRI.
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Toto je hlavná metóda, ktorú používam. Volá sa funkčné MRI.
04:05
If you've been in an MRI scanner, it's very much the same,
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Ak ste boli v MRI skeneri, je to v mnohom podobné,
04:08
but this one is outfitted in a special way
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ale tento je špeciálne vybavený,
04:10
to not just take pictures of your brain,
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nerobí len fotky vášho mozgu
04:12
but to also take pictures of active areas of the brain.
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ale aj záznamy aktívnych oblastí mozgu.
04:15
Now the way that's done is by the following.
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Deje sa to nasledovne.
04:17
There's something called BOLD imaging,
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Máme tu takzvané BOLD zobrazenie,
04:19
which is Blood Oxygen Level Dependent imaging.
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to je zobrazenie hladiny okysličenej krvi.
04:21
Now when you're in an fMRI scanner,
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Keď ste v fMRI skeneri,
04:23
you're in a big magnet
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ste vo veľkom magnete,
04:25
that's aligning your molecules in certain areas.
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ktorý sa pripája na molekuly v určitých oblastiach.
04:27
When an area of the brain is active, meaning a neural area is active,
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Keď je oblasť mozgu aktívna, je aktívna neuronálna oblasť,
04:30
it gets blood flow shunted to that area.
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nahrnie sa do tej oblasti krv.
04:33
That blood flow causes an increase
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Prietok krvi spôsobí zvýšenie
04:35
in local blood to that area
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hladiny krvi v tej oblasi
04:37
with a deoxyhemoglobin change in concentration.
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s deoxyhemoglobinovou zmenou v koncentrácii.
04:40
Deoxyhemoglobin can be detected by MRI,
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MRI vie zachytiť deoxyhemoglobín
04:42
whereas oxyhemoglobin can't.
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zatiaľčo oxyhemoglobín nedokáže.
04:44
So through this method of inference --
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Takže touto metódou dedukcie
04:46
and we're measuring blood flow, not neural activity --
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meriame prietok krvi, nie neuronálnu aktivitu a
04:48
we say that an area of the brain that's getting more blood
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usudzujeme, že ak oblasť mozgu má viac krvi
04:50
was active during a particular task,
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bola táto oblasť aktívna pri určitej úlohe.
04:52
and that's the crux of how fMRI works.
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To je podstata fungovania fMRI.
04:54
And it's been used since the '90s
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Používa sa už od 90-tych rokov
04:56
to study really complex processes.
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pri skúmaní zložitých procesov.
04:59
Now I'm going to review a study that I did,
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Teraz vám ukážem štúdiu, ktorý som robil.
05:01
which was jazz in an fMRI scanner.
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Volá sa Jazz v fMRI skeneri.
05:03
And this was done with a colleague of mine, Alan Braun, at the NIH.
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Spolupracoval som s kolegom Alanom Braunom z Národného inštitútu zdravia.
05:05
This is a short video of how we did this project.
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Tu je krátke video toho, čo sme v projekte robili.
05:08
(Video) Charles Limb: This is a plastic MIDI piano keyboard
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(Video) Charles Limb: Toto je umelohmotný MIDI klávesový nástroj
05:10
that we use for the jazz experiments.
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ktorý používame v jazzových experimetoch.
05:12
And it's a 35-key keyboard
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Má 35 kláves,
05:14
that is designed to fit both inside the scanner,
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ktoré sú navrhnuté tak, aby sa vošli do skeneru
05:16
be magnetically safe,
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a boli magneticky bezpečné,
05:18
have minimal interference
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mali minimálne rušivé účinky,
05:20
that would contribute to any artifact
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ktoré by rušili meranie
05:22
and have this cushion so that it can rest on the players' legs
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a podušku, takže si ho hráč môže položiť na nohy,
05:25
while they're lying down in the scanner, playing on their back.
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kým leží v skeneri a hrá ležiac na chrbte.
05:28
And it works like this -- this doesn't actually produce any sound.
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A funguje to takto, v skutočnosti to neprodukuje zvuk.
05:31
It sends out what's called a MIDI signal --
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Vysiela to takzvaný MIDI signál...
05:33
or a Musical Instrument Digital Interface --
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alebo digitálne rozhranie pre hudobné nástroje...
05:35
through these wires into the box and then the computer,
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cez tieto káble do počítača,
05:38
which then trigger high-quality piano samples like this.
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ktorý spustí vysoko kvalitný zvuk klavíra.
05:41
(Music)
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(Hudba)
05:47
(Music)
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(Hudba)
06:09
CL: Okay, so it works.
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CL: OK, funguje to.
06:11
And so through this piano keyboard,
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A pomocou týchto kláves
06:13
we now have the means to take a musical process and study it.
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máme prostriedok na skúmanie hudobných procesov.
06:15
So what do you do now that you have this cool piano keyboard?
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Takže čo teraz, keď už máš tento zvláštny klavír?
06:18
You can't just sort of -- "It's great we've got this keyboard."
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Neostane len pri tom, že: "Hej, super, že máme takýto klavírik."
06:20
We actually have to come up with a scientific experiment.
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Teraz musíme vymyslieť nejaký vedecký experiment.
06:22
And so the experiment really rests on the following:
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A tento experiment sa zakladá na nasledujúcom.
06:26
What happens in the brain during something that's memorized and over-learned,
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Čo sa deje v mozgu pri niečom naučenom a preskúšavanom
06:29
and what happens in the brain during something
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a čo sa deje v mozgu pri niečom,
06:31
that is spontaneously generated, or improvised,
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čo je spontánne vytvárané, teda improvizované,
06:33
in a way that's matched motorically
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čo je zladené motoricky
06:35
and in terms of lower-level sensory motor features?
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v zmysle jednoduchých senzorických častí?
06:38
And so, I have here what we call the "paradigms."
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Tu máme to, čo nazývame paradigma.
06:41
There's a scale paradigm, which is just playing a scale up and down, memorized.
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Stupnicová paradigma, hrá sa na stupnici hore a dole, popamäti.
06:44
And then there's improvising on a scale --
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A tu je improvizácia na stupnici
06:46
quarter notes, metronome, right hand --
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štvrťové noty, metronóm, pravá ruka,
06:48
scientifically very safe,
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vedecky veľmi bezpečné
06:50
but musically really boring.
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ale hudobne podstatne nudné.
06:52
And then there's the bottom one, which is called the jazz paradigm.
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A potom v spodnom riadku, máme jazzovú paradigmu.
06:54
And so what we did was we brought professional jazz players to the NIH,
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Pozvali sme profesionálnych hráčov jazzu na Inštitút,
06:56
and we had them memorize this piece of music on the left, the lower-left --
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kde sa museli naučiť hudobnú ukážku naľavo,
06:59
which is what you heard me playing --
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ktorú ste počuli, keď som ju hral ja
07:01
and then we had them improvise to the same exact chord changes.
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a potom sme ich nechali improvizovať v rovnakých zmenách akordov.
07:04
And if you can hit that lower-right sound icon,
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Keď klikneme na ikonu vľavo dole,
07:06
that's an example of what was recorded in the scanner.
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tu je ukážka toho, čo sme nahrali v skeneri.
07:08
(Music)
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(Hudba)
07:36
So in the end, it's not the most natural environment,
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Nie je to veľmi prirodzené prostredie
07:38
but they're able to play real music.
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ale boli schopní hrať ozajstnú hudbu.
07:40
And I've listened to that solo 200 times,
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Počul som to sólo už 200krát
07:42
and I still like it.
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a stále sa mi páči.
07:44
And the musicians, they were comfortable in the end.
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Hudobníkom tam nakoniec bolo celkom pohodlne.
07:46
And so we first measured the number of notes.
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Najprv sme zmerali počet nôt.
07:48
Were they in fact just playing a lot more notes when they were improvising?
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Nehrali v skutočnosti len viac nôt, keď improvizovali?
07:50
That was not what was going on.
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Nie, v tom to nebolo.
07:52
And then we looked at the brain activity.
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Potom sme sa pozreli na mozgovú aktivitu.
07:54
I'm going to try to condense this for you.
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Skúsim to pre vás zostručniť.
07:56
These are contrast maps that are showing subtractions
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Toto sú kontrastné mapy zobrazujúce rozdiel
07:59
between what changes when you're improvising
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medzi tým, čo je aktívne, keď improvizujete
08:01
versus when you're doing something memorized.
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a tým, keď robíte niečo naučené.
08:03
In red is an area that active in the prefrontal cortex,
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Červeným je aktívna oblasť v prefrontálnej kôre,
08:05
the frontal lobe of the brain,
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v čelovom laloku mozgu.
08:07
and in blue is this area that was deactivated.
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Modrou je deaktivovaná oblasť.
08:09
And so we had this focal area called the medial prefrontal cortex
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Takže ústrednou oblasťou je mediálny prefrontálny kortex,
08:11
that went way up in activity.
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kde došlo k zvýšeniu aktivity.
08:13
We had this broad patch of area called the lateral prefrontal cortex
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A veľká plocha zvaná laterálny prefrontálny kortex
08:16
that went way down in activity, and I'll summarize that for you here.
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zmenšila svoju aktivitu, ak to zhrniem.
08:19
Now these are multifunctional areas of the brain.
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Tieto oblasti plnia aj mnohé iné funkcie.
08:21
As I like to say, these are not the "jazz areas" of the brain.
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Ako rád pripomínam, toto nie sú jazzové oblasti mozgu.
08:24
They do a whole host of things
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Robia aj kopec iných vecí,
08:26
that have to do with self-reflection,
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ktoré súvisia s sebauvedomovaím,
08:28
introspection, working memory and so forth.
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introspekciou, pracovnou pamäťou atď.
08:30
Really, consciousness is seated in the frontal lobe.
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V čelovom laloku máme v podstate vedomie.
08:33
But we have this combination
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Ale máme to kombináciu
08:35
of an area that's thought to be involved in self-monitoring, turning off,
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oblasti, ktorá súvisí so sebakontrolu vypnutú
08:38
and this area that's thought to be autobiographical,
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a oblasti, o ktorej sa uvažuje ako autobiografickej
08:40
or self-expressive, turning on.
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alebo sebavyjadrovacej, zapnutú.
08:42
And we think, at least in this preliminary --
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Takže si myslíme, aspoň v tomto predbežnom -
08:44
it's one study; it's probably wrong,
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No je to len jedna štúdia, najskôr sa mýlime.
08:46
but it's one study --
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Ale je to jedna štúdia.
08:48
we think that at least a reasonable hypothesis
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Takže je rozumné stanoviť hypotézu,
08:51
is that, to be creative,
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že aby ste boli tvoriví,
08:53
you have to have this weird dissociation in your frontal lobe.
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musíte mať túto zvláštnu disociáciu v čelovom laloku.
08:55
One area turns on, and a big area shuts off,
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Jedna oblasť sa zapne a jedna veľká oblasť sa vypne,
08:57
so that you're not inhibited, so that you're willing to make mistakes,
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aby ste neboli brzdený, aby ste mohli spraviť aj chyby,
09:00
so that you're not constantly shutting down
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aby ste nepotlačovali
09:02
all of these new generative impulses.
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všetky tie novovygenerované impulzy.
09:05
Now a lot of people know that music is not always a solo activity --
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Vieme, že hudba nie je samostatnou aktivitou,
09:08
sometimes it's done communicatively.
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je komunikatívna.
09:10
And so the next question was:
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Takže ďalšou otázkou bolo:
09:12
What happens when musicians are trading back and forth,
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"Čo sa deje, keď si hudobníci navzájom odpovedajú,
09:14
something called "trading fours,"
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keď hrá raz jeden a raz druhý,
09:16
which is something they do normally in a jazz experiment?
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čo je bežne pri jazze deje.
09:18
So this is a twelve-bar blues.
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Toto je dvanásťtaktové blues.
09:20
And I've broken it down into four-bar groups here,
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Rozdelil som ho tu na štvortaktové skupiny,
09:22
so you would know how you would trade.
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aby sme videli, kedy dôjde k výmene.
09:24
Now what we did was we brought a musician into the scanner -- same way --
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To, čo sme urobili bolo, že sme do skeneru dali hudobníka,
09:26
had them memorize this melody
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ktorý sa mal naučiť melódiu
09:28
and then had another musician out in the control room
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a s druhým hudobníkom v kontrolnej miestnosti
09:30
trading back and forth interactively.
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sa interaktívne dopĺňali.
09:33
So this is a musician, Mike Pope,
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Takže tento hudobník, Mike Pope,
09:35
one of the world's best bassists and a fantastic piano player.
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jeden z najlepších svetových hráčov na basu a fantastický hráč na klavír.
09:43
So he's now playing the piece
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Práve hrá skladbu,
09:45
that we just saw
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ktorú sme videli,
09:47
just a little better than I wrote it.
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ešte o niečo lepšie, ako som ju napísal ja.
09:49
(Video) CL: Mike, come on in. Mike Pope: May the force be with you.
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(Video) CL: Mike, no tak.
09:51
Nurse: Nothing's in your pockets, right Mike?
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Sestra: Vo vreckách nemáš nič, však Mike?
09:53
MP: Nope. Nothing's in my pockets. Nurse: Okay.
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Mike Pope: Nie. Vo vreckách nemám nič. (Sestra: Okej.)
10:05
CL: You have to have the right attitude to agree to it.
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CL: Aby ste s týmto súhlasili, musíte mať ten správny postoj.
10:07
(Laughter)
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(Smiech)
10:09
It's kind of fun actually.
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Je to vlastne celkom zábavné.
10:11
And so now we're playing back and forth.
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A teraz sa pri hraní striedame.
10:14
He's in there. You can see his legs up there.
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On je dnu. Vidíte, tam má nohy.
10:18
And then I'm in the control room here, playing back and forth.
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A ja som v kontrolnej miestnosti, striedame sa pri hraní.
10:21
(Music)
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(Hudba)
10:33
(Video) Mike Pope: This is a pretty good representation
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(Video) Mike Pope: Je to dosť dobrá reprezentácia toho,
10:36
of what it's like.
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aké je to naozaj.
10:38
And it's good that it's not too quick.
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Je dobré, že to nie je príliš rýchle.
10:40
The fact that we do it over and over again
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Keďže to skúšame znova a znova,
10:42
lets you acclimate to your surroundings.
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umožní ti to aklimatizovať sa na prostredie.
10:46
So the hardest thing for me was the kinesthetic thing,
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Najťažšia pre mňa bola tá kinestetika,
10:49
of looking at my hands
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pozerať sa na svoej ruky
10:51
through two mirrors,
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skrz dve zrkadlá,
10:53
laying on my back
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ležiac na chrbte
10:55
and not able to move at all except for my hand.
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nehýbať sa okrem rúk.
10:57
That was challenging.
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To bola výzva.
10:59
But again,
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Ale aj tak
11:01
there were moments, for sure,
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boli tu naozajstné chvíle,
11:04
there were moments
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momenty
11:06
of real, honest-to-God musical interplay, for sure.
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skutočnej, úprimnej interhry.
11:10
CL: At this point, I'll take a few moments.
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CL: Teraz sa trochu zastavíme.
11:12
And so what you're seeing here --
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Takže to, čo tu vidíte...
11:14
and I'm doing a cardinal sin in science,
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A teraz robím kardinálny vedecký hriech,
11:16
which is to show you preliminary data.
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ukážem vám predbežné údaje.
11:18
This is one subject's data.
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Toto sú údaje jedného subjektu.
11:20
This is, in fact, Mike Pope's data.
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V skutočnosti práve Mikeove dáta.
11:22
So what am I showing you here?
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Takže čo vám to tu ukazujem?
11:24
When he was trading fours with me, improvising versus memorized,
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Keď sa so mnou striedal, improvizoval, nehral z pamäti,
11:27
his language areas lit up, his Broca's area,
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jeho jazykové oblasti sa aktivovali, jeho Brocova oblasť,
11:30
which is inferior frontal gyrus on the left.
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čo je spodný čelový lalok naľavo.
11:32
He actually had it also homologous on the right.
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Súhlasne ho mal aj napravo.
11:34
This is an area thought to be involved in expressive communication.
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Táto oblasť súvisí s expresívnou komunikáciou.
11:37
This whole notion that music is a language --
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Predstava, že hudba je jazykom,
11:39
well maybe there's a neurologic basis to it in fact after all,
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má zdá sa aj neurologickú podstatu.
11:42
and we can see it when two musicians are having a musical conversation.
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A vidíme to, keď dvaja hudobníci vedú hudobný rozhovor.
11:45
And so we've done this actually on eight subjects now,
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Už sme to vyskúšali u ôsmich subjektov
11:47
and we're just getting all the data together,
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a dávame naše údaje dokopy.
11:49
so hopefully we'll have something to say about it meaningfully.
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Takže snáď o tom budeme môcť povedať niečo zmysluplné.
11:51
Now when I think about improvisation and the language, well what's next?
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Keď premýšľam o improvizácii a jazyku, čo je ďalej?
11:54
Rap, of course, rap --
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Rap, prirodzene, rap,
11:56
free-style.
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free-style.
11:58
And so I've always been fascinated by free-style.
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Odjakživa ma free-style fascinoval.
12:00
And let's go ahead and play this video here.
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Takže poďme ďalej a pozrime si toto video.
12:02
(Video) Mos Def: ♫ ... brown skin I be, standing five-ten I be ♫
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(Video) Mos Def: ♫... s tmavou kožou stojím tu nad vami ♫
12:04
♫ Rockin' it when I be, in your vicinity ♫
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♫ robím bordel vo vašom okolí ♫
12:07
♫ Whole-style synergy, recognize symmetry ♫
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♫ celosvetová synergia, rozoznateľná symetria ♫
12:09
♫ Go and try to injure me, broke 'em down chemically ♫
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♫ tak ma skús poraziť, chemicky rozložiť ♫
12:12
♫ Ain't the number 10 MC, talk about how been I be ♫
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♫ nie som desiaty M.C., akým som bol vravím ♫
12:14
♫ Styled it like Kennedy, late like a 10 to three ♫
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♫ oháknutý ako Kennedy ♫
12:17
♫ When I say when I be, girls say bend that key cut ♫
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♫ keď poviem, že budem tu, babenky pribehnú ♫
12:20
CL: And so there's a lot of analogy
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CL: Je tu mnoho analogického
12:22
between what takes place in free-style rap and jazz.
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medzi tým, čo sa deje pri free-style a v jazze.
12:24
There are, in fact, a lot of correlations between the two forms of music
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Medzi týmito dvoma formami hudby je mnoho spoločného.
12:26
I think in different time periods.
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Mám na mysli odlišné časové obdobia.
12:28
In a lot a ways, rap serves the same social function
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Rap slúži rovnakej sociálnej funkcii
12:30
that jazz used to serve.
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ako kedysi jazz.
12:32
So how do you study rap scientifically?
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Takže ako vedecky skúmať rap?
12:34
And my colleagues kind of think I'm crazy,
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Moji kolegovia si myslia, že som sa zbláznil,
12:36
but I think it's very viable.
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ale ja si myslím, že je to uskutočniteľné.
12:38
And so this is what you do: you have a free-style artist
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Takže ide sa na to takto: máte free-style umelca,
12:40
come in and memorize a rap that you write for them,
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ktorý sa naučí rap, ktorý ste mu napísali,
12:42
that they've never heard before,
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ktorý predtým nikdy nepočul,
12:44
and then you have them free-style.
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a potom ho necháte free-styleovať.
12:46
So I told my lab members that I would rap for TED,
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Keď som v labáku povedal, že na TEDe budem rapovať,
12:48
and they said, "No, you won't."
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povedali mi: "Tak to teda nebudeš."
12:50
And then I thought --
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A tak som si pomyslel...
12:52
(Applause)
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(Potlesk)
12:58
But here's the thing.
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Ale pozor.
13:00
With this big screen, you can all rap with me. Okay?
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Pri takejto veľkej obrazovke, môžete všetci rapovať so mnou. Okej?
13:03
So what we had them do
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Takže sa museli naučiť
13:05
was memorize this lower-left sound icon, please.
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naspamäť to, čo je pri spodnej ikone vľavo.
13:07
This is the control condition. This is what they memorized.
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To bola kontrolná podmienka, to sa naučili naspamäť.
13:10
Computer: ♫ Memory, thump. ♫
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Počítač: ♫ Pamäť, úder. ♫
13:12
CL: ♫ Thump of the beat in a known repeat ♫
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CL: ♫ Úder taktu, ktorý sa opakuje ♫
13:15
♫ Rhythm and rhyme, they make me complete ♫
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♫ rytmus a rým, ktorý ma doplňuje ♫
13:18
♫ The climb is sublime when I'm on the mic ♫
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♫ keď beriem mikrák, je to nátresk ♫
13:20
♫ Spittin' rhymes that hit you like a lightning strike ♫
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♫ dávam rýmy, čo udrú ako blesk ♫
13:23
♫ I search for the truth in this eternal quest ♫
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♫ večne hľadať pravdu musím ♫
13:25
♫ My passion's not fashion, you can see how I'm dressed ♫
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♫ o handry sa nestarám, vidíš, čo nosím ♫
13:28
♫ Psychopathic words in my head appear ♫
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♫ v hlave mám psychopatické hlasy ♫
13:31
♫ Whisper these lyrics only I can hear ♫
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♫ čo šepkajú mi, počujem len ja asi ♫
13:34
♫ The art of discovering and that which is hovering ♫
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♫ umenie skúmať, to čo visí ♫
13:36
♫ Inside the mind of those unconfined ♫
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♫ v nekonečnej mysli ♫
13:39
♫ All of these words keep pouring out like rain ♫
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♫ slová sa zo mňa lejú ako riava ♫
13:42
♫ I need a mad scientist to check my brain ♫
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♫ môže za to moja chorá hlava ♫
13:45
(Applause)
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(Potlesk)
13:54
I guarantee you that will never happen again.
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Garantujem vám, že toto sa už nikdy nezopakuje.
13:57
(Laughter)
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(Smiech)
13:59
So now, what's great about these free-stylers,
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Pri týchto free-styleleroch je dobré, že
14:01
they will get cued different words.
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im dáte zopár podnetoých slov.
14:03
They don't know what's coming, but they'll hear something off the cuff.
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Nevedia, čo bude nasledovať ale počujú niečo bez prípravy.
14:05
Go ahead and hit that right sound icon.
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Spustite tú zvukovú ikonu napravo.
14:07
They are going to be cued these three square words: "like," "not" and "head."
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Počujú tri podnetové slová: "ako", "nie" a "hlava".
14:10
He doesn't know what's coming.
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Nevie, čo bude nasledovať ďalej.
14:12
Free-styler: ♫ I'm like some kind of [unclear] ♫
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Free-styler: ♫ ISom ako nejaký [nejasné] ♫
14:14
♫ [unclear] extraterrestrial, celestial scene ♫
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♫ [nejasné] mimozemská, nebeská scéna ♫
14:17
♫ Back in the days, I used to sit in pyramids and meditate ♫
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♫ Kedysi sedával som v pyramíde a meditoval ♫
14:20
♫ With two microphones hovering over my head ♫
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♫ s dvoma mikrofónmi visiacimi nad hlavou ♫
14:23
♫ See if I could still listen, spittin' off the sound ♫
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♫ keby som stále počul ♫
14:26
♫ See what you grinning ♫
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♫ vidíš, ako sa uškŕňaš ♫
14:28
♫ I teach the children in the back of the classroom ♫
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♫ učil som deti, čo sedávajú vzadu ♫
14:30
♫ About the message of apocalyptical ♫
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♫ o apokalyptickom odkaze ♫
14:33
♫ Not really though, 'cause I've got to keep it simple ♫
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♫ nie všetko, muselo to zostať jednoduché ♫
14:36
♫ [unclear] instrumental ♫
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♫ [nejasné] inštrumentálny ♫
14:38
♫ Detrimental playing Super Mario ♫
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♫ škodlivé hranie Super Mario ♫
14:41
♫ [unclear] boxes [unclear] hip hop ♫
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♫ [nejasné] krabice [nejasné] hip hop ♫
14:45
CL: So again, it's an incredible thing that's taking place.
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CL: Znova, dejú sa tu neuveriteľné veci.
14:47
It's doing something that, neurologically, is remarkable.
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Veci, ktoré sú neurologicky pozoruhodné.
14:49
Whether or not you like the music is irrelevant.
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Nezáleží, či sa vám táto hudba páči, či nie.
14:51
Creatively speaking, it's just a phenomenal thing.
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Čo sa týka tvorivosti, je to fenomenálne.
14:53
This is a short video of how we actually do this in a scanner.
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Tu je krátke video toho, ako sme to robili v skeneri.
14:56
(Laughter)
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(Smiech)
14:59
(Video) CL: We're here with Emmanuel.
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(Video) CL: Sme tu s Emmanuelom.
15:01
CL: That was recorded in the scanner, by the way.
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CL: Toto je mimochodom nahrané v skeneri.
15:03
(Video) CL: That's Emmanuel in the scanner.
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(Video) CL: Tu je Emmanuel v skeneri.
15:06
He's just memorized a rhyme for us.
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Naučil sa pre nás jeden rap.
15:12
Emmanuel: ♫ Top of the beat with no repeat ♫
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Emmanuel: ♫ Úder taktu, ktorý sa opakuje ♫
15:15
♫ Rhythm and rhyme make me complete ♫
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♫ rytmus a rým, ktorý ma doplňuje ♫
15:18
♫ Climb is sublime when I'm on the mic ♫
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♫ keď beriem mikrák, je to nátresk ♫
15:21
♫ Spittin' rhymes that'll hit you like a lightning strike ♫
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♫ dávam rýmy, čo udrú ako blesk ♫
15:23
♫ I search for the truth in this eternal quest ♫
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♫ večne hľadať pravdu musím ♫
15:26
♫ I'm passing on fashion; you can see how I'm dressed ♫
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♫ o handry sa nestarám, vidíš, čo nosím ♫
15:29
CL: Okay. So I'm going to stop that there. So what do we see in his brain?
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CL: Okej, tu to zastavím. Čo vidíme v jeho mozgu?
15:32
Well, this is actually four rappers' brains.
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Tu sú v skutočnosti mozgy štyroch raperov.
15:34
And what we see, we do see language areas lighting up,
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A vidíme ako sa rozsvietili jazykové oblasti,
15:36
but then -- eyes closed --
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ale potom pri zavretých očiach,
15:38
when you are free-styling versus memorizing,
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keď robíte free-style, nie rap spamäti,
15:41
you've got major visual areas lighting up.
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rozsvietia sa obrovské vizuálne oblasti.
15:43
You've got major cerebellar activity, which is involved in motor coordination.
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Máme tu aktivitu mozočku, ktorý je zodpovedný sa motorickú koordináciu.
15:46
You have heightened brain activity when you're doing a comparable task,
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Zvýšenú mozgovú aktivitu máte, keď robíte porovnateľnú úlohu,
15:49
when that one task is creative and the other task is memorized.
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jedna úloha je na tvorivosť a druhá vykonávaná spamäti.
15:53
It's very preliminary, but I think it's kind of cool.
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Je to len predbežné zistenie ale myslím, že je to cool.
15:55
So just to conclude, we've got a lot of questions to ask,
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Aby som to zhrnul, máme ešte veľa otázok.
15:58
and like I said, we'll ask questions here, not answer them.
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A ako som už vravel, mi si tu otázky kladieme, neodpovedáme na ne.
16:01
But we want to get at the root of what is creative genius, neurologically,
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Ale chceme prísť na koreň toho, čo znamená byť tvorivým géniom, neurologicky.
16:04
and I think, with these methods, we're getting close to being there.
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Myslím si, že s týmito metódami sa posúvame bližšie.
16:07
And I think hopefully in the next 10, 20 years
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A dúfam, že v najbližších 10, 20 rokoch
16:09
you'll actually see real, meaningful studies
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uvidíte skutočné, zmysluplné štúdie.
16:11
that say science has to catch up to art,
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Vraví sa, že veda musí umenie dobehnúť
16:15
and maybe we're starting now to get there.
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asi sa nám to začína dariť.
16:17
And so I want to thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
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Chcem vám poďakovať za váš čas, cením si to.
16:19
(Applause)
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(Potlesk)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Charles Limb - ResearcherCharles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.
Why you should listen
Charles Limb is the Francis A. Sooy, MD Professor and Chief of Otology/Neurotology and Skull Base Surgery at the University of California, San Francisco, and he's a Faculty Member at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. He combines his two passions to study the way the brain creates and perceives music. He's a hearing specialist and surgeon at Johns Hopkins who performs cochlear implantations on patients who have lost their hearing. And he plays sax, piano and bass.
In search of a better understanding of how the mind perceives complex auditory stimuli such as music, he's been working with Allen Braun to look at the brains of improvising musicians and study what parts of the brain are involved in the kind of deep creativity that happens when a musician is really in the groove.
Read our Q&A about hip-hop studies with Charles Limb on the TED Blog >>
Plus our quick catchup Q&A at TEDMED 2011 -- including his top 5 songs of all time >>
Read the 2014 paper "Neural Substrates of Interactive Musical Improvisation: An fMRI Study of ‘Trading Fours’ in Jazz" >>
Charles Limb | Speaker | TED.com