TEDxMidAtlantic
Charles Limb: Your brain on improv
查爾斯·理姆： 你的大腦在即興狀態
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作曲家和研究者 查爾斯·理姆 時常琢磨人的大腦在即興音樂創作時是如何工作的 —— 為了弄清楚這一點，他給些爵士樂手和說唱歌手做了功能磁共振成像。他和他的團隊的研究成果對我們關於各種創造力的理解有著深遠的影響。
Charles Limb - Researcher
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio
Charles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
So I am a surgeon who studies creativity,
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我是一個研究創造力的外科醫師,
00:18
and I have never had a patient tell me
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從來沒有一個病人對我說
00:21
that "I really want you to be creative during surgery,"
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我希望您能在手術時來點創意。
00:24
and so I guess there's a little bit of irony to it.
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我想這有點諷刺意味。
00:27
I will say though that, after having done surgery a lot,
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但是我要說，在實施過無數次的外科手術之後，
00:30
it's somewhat similar to playing a musical instrument.
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我覺得手術在一定程度上跟彈奏一種樂器很相似。
00:32
And for me, this sort of deep and enduring fascination with sound
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而對於我來說，正是這種深刻而持久的聲音魅力，
00:35
is what led me to both be a surgeon
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吸引著我在做一個手術醫師的同時，
00:37
and also to study the science of sound, particularly music.
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學習研究聲音的科學，特別是音樂。
00:39
And so I'm going to try to talk to you over the next few minutes
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那麼，在下面的幾分鐘裡，我將試著跟你們談論
00:41
about my career
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關於我的職業
00:43
in terms of how I'm able to actually try to study music
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特別在於我究竟是如何研究音樂
00:45
and really try to grapple with all these questions
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以及努力設法解決這些關於
00:47
of how the brain is able to be creative.
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大腦如何產生創意的疑問。
00:50
I've done most of this work at Johns Hopkins University,
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這些工作大部分是我在約翰·霍普金斯大學時候完成的，
00:52
but also at the National Institute of Health where I was previously.
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也有一些是我之前在美國國家健康研究中心做的。
00:54
I'm going to go over some science experiments
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我會先回顧一下一些科學實驗
00:56
and try to cover three musical experiments.
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並且會涉及三個音樂實驗。
00:58
I'm going to start off by playing a video for you.
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我想從給你們展示一段影片開始。
01:00
And this video is a video of Keith Jarrett, who's a well-known jazz improviser
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這是基斯·哈雷特的一段影片， 他是一位著名的爵士即興音樂創作人，
01:03
and probably the most well-known, iconic example
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並且可能是最著名的，能將即興創作
01:06
of someone who takes improvisation to a really higher level.
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提升到一個相當高水平且最具代表性的人物。
01:08
And he'll improvise entire concerts
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並且，他將用他的大腦
01:10
off the top of his head,
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創作出整場音樂會，
01:12
and he'll never play it exactly the same way again,
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並且他將永遠不會再用一模一樣的方式表演。
01:14
and so, as a form of intense creativity,
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因此， 以一種極高度的創作形式來說，
01:16
I think this is a great example.
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我想這是一個非常好的例子。
01:18
And so why don't we go and click the video.
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所以現在讓我們來看看這段影片吧。
01:21
(Music)
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（音樂）
02:17
It's really a remarkable, awesome thing that happens there.
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剛剛發生的一切真是非凡而美妙。
02:20
I've always -- just as a listener, as just a fan --
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一直以來 -- 我只是一個聆聽者，一個樂迷 --
02:22
I listen to that, and I'm just astounded.
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我聽著，然後我被震懾住了。
02:24
I think -- how can this possibly be?
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我想：這怎麼可能發生？
02:26
How can the brain generate that much information,
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大腦怎麼能自行產生那麼多的信息，
02:28
that much music, spontaneously?
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那麼多的音樂?
02:30
And so I set out with this concept, scientifically,
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所以，我合乎科學地展開這個概念，
02:33
that artistic creativity, it's magical, but it's not magic,
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具有藝術性的創作，它是神奇的，但它不是魔術。
02:36
meaning that it's a product of the brain.
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意思是說，它是大腦的產物。
02:38
There's not too many brain-dead people creating art.
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沒有很多的腦死亡者在創作藝術。
02:41
And so with this notion that artistic creativity
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所以基與這種理念，那藝術性的創作
02:43
is in fact a neurologic product,
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實際上是一種神經產物，
02:45
I took this thesis that we could study it
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我帶來了這個議題，我們可以來研究一下，
02:48
just like we study any other complex neurologic process.
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就像我們可以研究別的複雜的神經過程一樣。
02:51
And I think there's some sub-questions there that I put there.
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並且， 我覺得還有一些我放在那裡的小問題。
02:53
Is it truly possible to study creativity scientifically?
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真的有可能用科學的方法研究創造力嗎？
02:55
And I think that's a good question.
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我認為這是個很好的問題。
02:57
And I'll tell you that most scientific studies of music,
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我要告訴你們，大部分針對音樂所做的科學研究，
03:00
they're very dense,
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它們非常難以理解。
03:02
and when you actually go through them, it's very hard to recognize the music in it.
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當你閱讀它們時，很難從中辦識音樂。
03:05
In fact, they seem to be very unmusical entirely
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實際上，它們整個看上去非常的不具音樂性。
03:07
and to miss the whole point of the music.
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而且完全失去了音樂的特性。
03:09
And so it brings the second question:
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因此，這就帶來了第二個問題：
03:11
Why should scientists study creativity?
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為什麼科學家們要研究創造力呢？
03:13
Maybe we're not the right people to do it.
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也許我們並不是研究音樂的正確人選。
03:15
Well it may be,
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但也有可能我們是。
03:17
but I will say that, from a scientific perspective --
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但是，我將要說，從一個科學的角度 ——
03:19
we talked a lot about innovation today --
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當今我們談論很多關於創新的事情。
03:21
the science of innovation,
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科學創新。
03:23
how much we understand about how the brain is able to innovate
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我們對大腦如何可以創新的認知
03:25
is in its infancy,
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還只是初級。
03:27
and truly, we know very little about how we are able to be creative.
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是的，我們對我們如何可以創新知之甚少。
03:30
And so I think that we're going to see
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所以，我想，我們將看到
03:32
over the next 10, 20, 30 years
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再過10年，20年，30年
03:34
a real science of creativity that's burgeoning and is going to flourish.
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一種關於創造力的真實科學將會迅速發展，並且繁榮興旺。
03:37
Because we now have new methods that can enable us
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因為現在有新的方法使得我們可以
03:39
to take this process of something like this,
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運用這些類似的過程，
03:41
complex jazz improvisation, and study it rigorously.
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像複雜的爵士即興表演，嚴僅地研究它
03:43
And so it gets down to the brain.
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讓它一直深入到大腦。
03:45
And so all of us have this remarkable brain,
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這樣以後我們都可以擁有這個非凡的大腦，
03:47
which is poorly understood to say the least.
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而現在我們對大腦只有差強人意的認識。
03:50
I think that neuroscientists
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我想，神經學家們
03:52
have many more questions than answers,
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的問題可能比答案還多。
03:54
and I myself, I'm not going to give you many answers today,
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而我自己，我今天將不會給你們很多的解答。
03:56
just ask a lot of questions.
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我只問大量的問題。
03:58
And fundamentally that's what I do in my lab.
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基本上，這正是我每天在實驗室作的事情。
04:00
I ask questions about what is this brain doing to enable us to do this.
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我會問很多問題，關於我們的大腦做了什麼才使得我們可以做這做那。
04:02
This is the main method that I use. This is called functional MRI.
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這就是我用的主要方法。 這種方法叫功能磁共振影像。
04:05
If you've been in an MRI scanner, it's very much the same,
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如果你有在磁共振影像掃描儀中待過，基本上是相同的東西，
04:08
but this one is outfitted in a special way
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但這一個被裝備成一種特別的方式
04:10
to not just take pictures of your brain,
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它不僅能為你的腦部拍照，
04:12
but to also take pictures of active areas of the brain.
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還為腦部的活動區域拍照。
04:15
Now the way that's done is by the following.
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下面就是這個方法的實現：
04:17
There's something called BOLD imaging,
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這是一種叫血氧影像的東西，
04:19
which is Blood Oxygen Level Dependent imaging.
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是血和氧氣水平的影像。
04:21
Now when you're in an fMRI scanner,
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當你處在一個功能磁共振影像掃描儀中時，
04:23
you're in a big magnet
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你是在一個巨大的磁場中
04:25
that's aligning your molecules in certain areas.
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將你局部區域的分子排列起來。
04:27
When an area of the brain is active, meaning a neural area is active,
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當大腦的某塊區域在活動，也就是說一塊神經區域在活動的時候，
04:30
it gets blood flow shunted to that area.
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它使血流轉到那塊區域。
04:33
That blood flow causes an increase
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血流造成
04:35
in local blood to that area
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那塊區域的血量增加
04:37
with a deoxyhemoglobin change in concentration.
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它改變脫氧血紅蛋白的濃度。
04:40
Deoxyhemoglobin can be detected by MRI,
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去氧合血紅蛋白可以被磁共振成像探測到，
04:42
whereas oxyhemoglobin can't.
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而氧基红血球素不能被探測到。
04:44
So through this method of inference --
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所以通過這種推斷 ——
04:46
and we're measuring blood flow, not neural activity --
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並且我們在測量血流，而不是神經活動——
04:48
we say that an area of the brain that's getting more blood
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我們稱之為大腦某個血量正在增加的區域
04:50
was active during a particular task,
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在某特別的任務中是活動的。
04:52
and that's the crux of how fMRI works.
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那就是功能磁共振成像的工作原理的關鍵之處。
04:54
And it's been used since the '90s
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而它從90年代以來
04:56
to study really complex processes.
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就被用來研究相當複雜的過程。
04:59
Now I'm going to review a study that I did,
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現在我將來回顧一下我自己做的一個研究，
05:01
which was jazz in an fMRI scanner.
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這個研究是關於功能磁共振掃描儀中的爵士樂。
05:03
And this was done with a colleague of mine, Alan Braun, at the NIH.
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這是我和我的一個同事，亞倫·布勞恩，在美國國家健康研究中心時做的。
05:05
This is a short video of how we did this project.
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這是一個我們如何進行這個項目的短片。
05:08
(Video) Charles Limb: This is a plastic MIDI piano keyboard
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（視頻）查爾斯·理姆：這是一個塑料的MIDI （音樂設備數字接口）鋼琴鍵盤
05:10
that we use for the jazz experiments.
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我們用這個鍵盤來進行爵士樂實驗。
05:12
And it's a 35-key keyboard
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它是一塊35鍵的鍵盤
05:14
that is designed to fit both inside the scanner,
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這樣設計是爲了同時適合掃描儀內部，
05:16
be magnetically safe,
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同時安全地帶著磁性，
05:18
have minimal interference
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將人為造成的干擾物質
05:20
that would contribute to any artifact
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減低到最少量
05:22
and have this cushion so that it can rest on the players' legs
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並且有這個墊子，這樣演奏者可以將它放在腿上
05:25
while they're lying down in the scanner, playing on their back.
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當他們躺在掃描儀里，用他們的背後表演時。
05:28
And it works like this -- this doesn't actually produce any sound.
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它是這樣工作的 ——它並不真正產生任何聲音。
05:31
It sends out what's called a MIDI signal --
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它會輸出一個 MIDI 的信號--
05:33
or a Musical Instrument Digital Interface --
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或者叫音樂設備數字接口--
05:35
through these wires into the box and then the computer,
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信號通過這些電線中進入這個盒子然後進入電腦，
05:38
which then trigger high-quality piano samples like this.
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然後發出一個高品質的鋼琴聲。
05:41
(Music)
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（音樂）
05:47
(Music)
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（音樂）
06:09
CL: Okay, so it works.
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查爾斯·理姆：好，所以它是可用的。
06:11
And so through this piano keyboard,
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所以通過這個鋼琴鍵盤，
06:13
we now have the means to take a musical process and study it.
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我們現在有辦法獲取一段音樂的過程並來研究它。
06:15
So what do you do now that you have this cool piano keyboard?
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那現在你有了這個很酷的鋼琴鍵盤了，你要做點什麼呢？
06:18
You can't just sort of -- "It's great we've got this keyboard."
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你不能光說——“我們弄到這麼各好鍵盤真是太棒了。”
06:20
We actually have to come up with a scientific experiment.
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實際上，我們必須想出一個科學實驗。
06:22
And so the experiment really rests on the following:
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這個實驗依靠以下這些。
06:26
What happens in the brain during something that's memorized and over-learned,
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當我們依循記憶運用一些熟悉的事物時，大腦會如何活動？
06:29
and what happens in the brain during something
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當自發的產生或即興創作出一些東西，
06:31
that is spontaneously generated, or improvised,
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我們的大腦又發生了什麼
06:33
in a way that's matched motorically
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在某種程度上那是運動神經
06:35
and in terms of lower-level sensory motor features?
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和低階感官運動特徵符合的情形？
06:38
And so, I have here what we call the "paradigms."
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所以，我這裡提供一個範例。
06:41
There's a scale paradigm, which is just playing a scale up and down, memorized.
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有一個音階範例，就是彈奏上下的音調，並記起來。
06:44
And then there's improvising on a scale --
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然後是這段音階的即興演奏--
06:46
quarter notes, metronome, right hand --
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4分音符，節拍器，右手--
06:48
scientifically very safe,
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從科學觀點是很安全的，
06:50
but musically really boring.
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但是從音樂角度來說確非常無聊。
06:52
And then there's the bottom one, which is called the jazz paradigm.
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最後還有一個，稱為爵士樂的範例。
06:54
And so what we did was we brought professional jazz players to the NIH,
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然後我們將專業的爵士樂手帶到美國國家健康研究中心，
06:56
and we had them memorize this piece of music on the left, the lower-left --
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接著讓他們記住像左下方的音樂，
06:59
which is what you heard me playing --
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就是你們剛剛聽我彈的這段，
07:01
and then we had them improvise to the same exact chord changes.
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然後我們讓他們即興創作同一段相同的和弦。
07:04
And if you can hit that lower-right sound icon,
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如果你點擊右下方的聲音圖標，
07:06
that's an example of what was recorded in the scanner.
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這裡有一個掃描儀記錄的例子。
07:08
(Music)
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（音樂）
07:36
So in the end, it's not the most natural environment,
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總而言之，這並不是最自然的環境，
07:38
but they're able to play real music.
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但是他們能夠演奏真實的音樂。
07:40
And I've listened to that solo 200 times,
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雖然我已經把那段獨奏聽過200次了，
07:42
and I still like it.
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我仍然喜歡它。
07:44
And the musicians, they were comfortable in the end.
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而音樂家們，他們最後也感覺很好。
07:46
And so we first measured the number of notes.
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我們先測量這些音符的數量。
07:48
Were they in fact just playing a lot more notes when they were improvising?
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他們在即興表演時真的彈奏了更多的音符嗎？
07:50
That was not what was going on.
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並不是這樣的。
07:52
And then we looked at the brain activity.
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然後我們看了腦部的活動。
07:54
I'm going to try to condense this for you.
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我試著把這部分壓縮，來告訴你們。
07:56
These are contrast maps that are showing subtractions
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這是對比圖，它顯示出
07:59
between what changes when you're improvising
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當你在即興創作
08:01
versus when you're doing something memorized.
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和你正在做記憶中的事情時的差值。
08:03
In red is an area that active in the prefrontal cortex,
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紅色部分是前額葉皮質活動的區域，
08:05
the frontal lobe of the brain,
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是大腦的前額葉。
08:07
and in blue is this area that was deactivated.
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而藍色，是不活動的區域。
08:09
And so we had this focal area called the medial prefrontal cortex
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我們管這個重點區域叫做內側前額葉皮質
08:11
that went way up in activity.
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活動很頻繁。
08:13
We had this broad patch of area called the lateral prefrontal cortex
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這塊寬的區域稱為外側前額葉皮層
08:16
that went way down in activity, and I'll summarize that for you here.
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活動較遲緩， 我們來做個總結。
08:19
Now these are multifunctional areas of the brain.
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這些是腦部的多功能區域。
08:21
As I like to say, these are not the "jazz areas" of the brain.
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就像我說的，這不是大腦裡爵士樂的區域。
08:24
They do a whole host of things
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他們負責主要的事情
08:26
that have to do with self-reflection,
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這些事情跟自我反省，
08:28
introspection, working memory and so forth.
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內省及工作記憶相關。
08:30
Really, consciousness is seated in the frontal lobe.
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真實的意識存在前額葉.
08:33
But we have this combination
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但是我們認為有一個相關的區域
08:35
of an area that's thought to be involved in self-monitoring, turning off,
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自我控制的部分是關閉的，
08:38
and this area that's thought to be autobiographical,
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而這塊區域被認為是自動傳遞(導)的，
08:40
or self-expressive, turning on.
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或者是自我表現的區域開啟了。
08:42
And we think, at least in this preliminary --
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我們認為，至少初步認為
08:44
it's one study; it's probably wrong,
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這是一項研究，它可能是錯誤的。
08:46
but it's one study --
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但它仍然是一項研究。
08:48
we think that at least a reasonable hypothesis
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我們認為，至少一個合理的假說
08:51
is that, to be creative,
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是，要有創造性，
08:53
you have to have this weird dissociation in your frontal lobe.
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你的前額葉不得不有這樣的分離。
08:55
One area turns on, and a big area shuts off,
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一塊區域工作，而一大塊區域關閉，
08:57
so that you're not inhibited, so that you're willing to make mistakes,
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從而使你不被約束，願意去犯錯誤，
09:00
so that you're not constantly shutting down
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因此你不是一直處於
09:02
all of these new generative impulses.
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關閉所有這些新的能夠製造東西的衝動狀態。
09:05
Now a lot of people know that music is not always a solo activity --
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現在，很多人知道音樂並不總是一個獨立的活動——
09:08
sometimes it's done communicatively.
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有時它是一個溝通性的活動。
09:10
And so the next question was:
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所以下一個問題是：
09:12
What happens when musicians are trading back and forth,
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當音樂家們前後替換時，
09:14
something called "trading fours,"
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被稱為4小節交換，
09:16
which is something they do normally in a jazz experiment?
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也就是他們通常在爵士樂實驗中做的？
09:18
So this is a twelve-bar blues.
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這是一段12小節的布魯斯音樂。
09:20
And I've broken it down into four-bar groups here,
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我將它按四小節分組，
09:22
so you would know how you would trade.
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所以你知道你是怎樣交換的。
09:24
Now what we did was we brought a musician into the scanner -- same way --
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現在，我們將一位音樂家置入掃描儀--用同樣的方式--
09:26
had them memorize this melody
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讓他們記憶這段旋律
09:28
and then had another musician out in the control room
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然後讓另外一名音樂家在外面的控制室
09:30
trading back and forth interactively.
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前後互動相互彈奏。
09:33
So this is a musician, Mike Pope,
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這是一位音樂家，麥克·波普，
09:35
one of the world's best bassists and a fantastic piano player.
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世界上最好的貝司手之一，也是一個了不起的鋼琴家。
09:43
So he's now playing the piece
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他現在正在彈這段
09:45
that we just saw
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我們剛剛看到的
09:47
just a little better than I wrote it.
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只是他彈的比我寫得好一點。
09:49
(Video) CL: Mike, come on in. Mike Pope: May the force be with you.
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（視頻）查爾斯·理姆：
09:51
Nurse: Nothing's in your pockets, right Mike?
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護士：你口袋里沒東西了，對吧 麥克？
09:53
MP: Nope. Nothing's in my pockets. Nurse: Okay.
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麥克·波普：是的，我口袋裡什麼也沒有了。 （護士： 好。）
10:05
CL: You have to have the right attitude to agree to it.
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查爾斯·理姆：你必須用正確的態度接受它。
10:07
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:09
It's kind of fun actually.
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它其實挺有趣的。
10:11
And so now we're playing back and forth.
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現在我們開始交互彈奏。
10:14
He's in there. You can see his legs up there.
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他在裏面了。你可以看到他的腿在那裡。
10:18
And then I'm in the control room here, playing back and forth.
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而我在控制室裡，交互彈奏。
10:21
(Music)
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（音樂）
10:33
(Video) Mike Pope: This is a pretty good representation
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（視頻）麥克·波普： 這剛好可以好好的表現
10:36
of what it's like.
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它的形式。
10:38
And it's good that it's not too quick.
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而且它很好因為它不是很快。
10:40
The fact that we do it over and over again
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事實上，我們一遍一遍地重複它，
10:42
lets you acclimate to your surroundings.
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讓你習慣你周圍的環境。
10:46
So the hardest thing for me was the kinesthetic thing,
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所以對我來說最難的是運動知覺的部份，
10:49
of looking at my hands
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藉由兩面鏡子
10:51
through two mirrors,
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看我的雙手，
10:53
laying on my back
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躺著
10:55
and not able to move at all except for my hand.
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除了手，別的都不能動。
10:57
That was challenging.
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這很有挑戰性。
10:59
But again,
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但是再一次，
11:01
there were moments, for sure,
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有一瞬間，非常確定的，
11:04
there were moments
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有一瞬間，
11:06
of real, honest-to-God musical interplay, for sure.
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真的，真誠的音樂相互作用，是肯定的。
11:10
CL: At this point, I'll take a few moments.
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查爾斯·理姆：在這一點上，我要耽誤一點時間。
11:12
And so what you're seeing here --
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你們現在能看到什麽--
11:14
and I'm doing a cardinal sin in science,
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而我現在要犯一種科學的禁忌，
11:16
which is to show you preliminary data.
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就是向你們展示一些初步的數據。
11:18
This is one subject's data.
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這是一個主體的數據。
11:20
This is, in fact, Mike Pope's data.
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這是，實際上，麥克波普的數據。
11:22
So what am I showing you here?
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所以我要讓你們看什麽呢？
11:24
When he was trading fours with me, improvising versus memorized,
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當他在和我配合4小節的彈奏時，是靠即興而非記憶
11:27
his language areas lit up, his Broca's area,
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他的語言區域亮了起來，也就是他的布洛卡區，
11:30
which is inferior frontal gyrus on the left.
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也就是左邊的額下回。
11:32
He actually had it also homologous on the right.
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他實際上在右邊也有一塊相應的區域。
11:34
This is an area thought to be involved in expressive communication.
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這是一塊被認為是參與表達溝通的區域。
11:37
This whole notion that music is a language --
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這所有的關於音樂是一種語言的觀念，
11:39
well maybe there's a neurologic basis to it in fact after all,
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嗯，事實上也許歸根結底是有神經學基礎的，
11:42
and we can see it when two musicians are having a musical conversation.
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而當兩個音樂家在進行音樂對話的時候，我們可以看到它。
11:45
And so we've done this actually on eight subjects now,
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而現在我們已經在八個主體上做了這個實驗，
11:47
and we're just getting all the data together,
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然後我們把所有數據匯聚在一起，
11:49
so hopefully we'll have something to say about it meaningfully.
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但願我們將會得到一些有意義的結果。
11:51
Now when I think about improvisation and the language, well what's next?
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現在當我想到即興和語言，那接下來是什麽呢？
11:54
Rap, of course, rap --
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說唱，肯定的，說唱 --
11:56
free-style.
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自由形式。
11:58
And so I've always been fascinated by free-style.
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我一直都對自由式說唱很著迷。
12:00
And let's go ahead and play this video here.
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讓我們繼續，播放這段視頻。
12:02
(Video) Mos Def: ♫ ... brown skin I be, standing five-ten I be ♫
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（視頻）莫斯 戴夫：我是棕色皮膚，我站了五十年數
12:04
♫ Rockin' it when I be, in your vicinity ♫
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♫當我在你左右，我搖滾♫
12:07
♫ Whole-style synergy, recognize symmetry ♫
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♫各種形勢的協同，相對辨認♫
12:09
♫ Go and try to injure me, broke 'em down chemically ♫
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♫來試著傷害我，化學分解它們♫
12:12
♫ Ain't the number 10 MC, talk about how been I be ♫
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♫不是數字十，說說我該怎麼樣♫
12:14
♫ Styled it like Kennedy, late like a 10 to three ♫
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♫像肯尼迪一樣的風格，像3點差十分一樣晚♫
12:17
♫ When I say when I be, girls say bend that key cut ♫
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♫當我說當我做，女孩們隨聲調整♫
12:20
CL: And so there's a lot of analogy
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查爾斯·理姆：有大量的比擬
12:22
between what takes place in free-style rap and jazz.
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在自由式說唱和爵士樂之間。
12:24
There are, in fact, a lot of correlations between the two forms of music
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實際上，這兩種音樂形式之間有很多
12:26
I think in different time periods.
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在不同的時期。
12:28
In a lot a ways, rap serves the same social function
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在很多方面，說唱被用作一種社交功能
12:30
that jazz used to serve.
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這種功能用爵士來實現的。
12:32
So how do you study rap scientifically?
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所以該如何科學地學習說唱呢？
12:34
And my colleagues kind of think I'm crazy,
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而我的同事們都或多或少覺得我瘋了，
12:36
but I think it's very viable.
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但我覺得這很切實可行。
12:38
And so this is what you do: you have a free-style artist
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所以這就是你要做的：你讓一個自由式說唱的藝術家
12:40
come in and memorize a rap that you write for them,
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進來，並記住一段你為他們寫的說唱，
12:42
that they've never heard before,
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這段說唱他們從來沒有聽過，
12:44
and then you have them free-style.
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然後你讓他們將它自由化。
12:46
So I told my lab members that I would rap for TED,
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所以我告訴我實驗室的同事們，我將為TED 說唱，
12:48
and they said, "No, you won't."
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而他們說：“不，你不會的。”
12:50
And then I thought --
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然後我想--
12:52
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
12:58
But here's the thing.
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但是有件事情。
13:00
With this big screen, you can all rap with me. Okay?
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用這個大屏幕，你們都可以和我說唱。對麼？
13:03
So what we had them do
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所以我們讓他們來做
13:05
was memorize this lower-left sound icon, please.
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是記憶。請按這裡左下角的音樂圖標。
13:07
This is the control condition. This is what they memorized.
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這是控制條件。這是他們要記憶的。
13:10
Computer: ♫ Memory, thump. ♫
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電腦：記憶，撞擊。
13:12
CL: ♫ Thump of the beat in a known repeat ♫
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查爾斯·理姆：撞擊的鼓聲是已知且重複的
13:15
♫ Rhythm and rhyme, they make me complete ♫
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節奏和韻律，他們讓我完整。
13:18
♫ The climb is sublime when I'm on the mic ♫
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當我在麥克風前，爬升是一種崇高
13:20
♫ Spittin' rhymes that hit you like a lightning strike ♫
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分裂那些撞你如醍醐灌頂的韻律
13:23
♫ I search for the truth in this eternal quest ♫
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我在永恆的追求中尋找真理
13:25
♫ My passion's not fashion, you can see how I'm dressed ♫
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我的激情不是時尚，你看我穿成這樣就可以知曉
13:28
♫ Psychopathic words in my head appear ♫
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我的腦中出現了，精神病的字眼，
13:31
♫ Whisper these lyrics only I can hear ♫
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小聲地說這些只有我能聽到的歌詞
13:34
♫ The art of discovering and that which is hovering ♫
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發現的藝術和徘徊
13:36
♫ Inside the mind of those unconfined ♫
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在腦中的的自由的東西
13:39
♫ All of these words keep pouring out like rain ♫
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所有這些詞語一直像傾盆大雨
13:42
♫ I need a mad scientist to check my brain ♫
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我需要一個瘋掉的科學家檢查我的大腦
13:45
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
13:54
I guarantee you that will never happen again.
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我向你們保證，那將再也不會發生了。
13:57
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
13:59
So now, what's great about these free-stylers,
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現在，關於這些自由式者，什麼是最偉大的，
14:01
they will get cued different words.
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他們將從不同的詞組中得到線索。
14:03
They don't know what's coming, but they'll hear something off the cuff.
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他們不知道接下來是什麼，但是他們將聽到一些未經思考的東西。
14:05
Go ahead and hit that right sound icon.
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繼續，點擊那個右邊的聲音圖標。
14:07
They are going to be cued these three square words: "like," "not" and "head."
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他們將被提示三個詞：“喜歡”，“不”， 和“頭”。
14:10
He doesn't know what's coming.
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他不知道接下來是什麼。
14:12
Free-styler: ♫ I'm like some kind of [unclear] ♫
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自由式者：我就像一些【不清晰】
14:14
♫ [unclear] extraterrestrial, celestial scene ♫
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【不清晰】外星的，天體的景觀
14:17
♫ Back in the days, I used to sit in pyramids and meditate ♫
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回到那些過去的日子，我以前曾坐在金字塔裡冥思
14:20
♫ With two microphones hovering over my head ♫
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有兩個麥克風懸在我的頭上
14:23
♫ See if I could still listen, spittin' off the sound ♫
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來看我是否還能聽，分離那聲音
14:26
♫ See what you grinning ♫
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看你正裂着嘴笑
14:28
♫ I teach the children in the back of the classroom ♫
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我在教室的後面教那些孩子
14:30
♫ About the message of apocalyptical ♫
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關於天啟的消息
14:33
♫ Not really though, 'cause I've got to keep it simple ♫
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但是不是真的，因為我必須保持難度簡單
14:36
♫ [unclear] instrumental ♫
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【不清楚】用樂器演奏
14:38
♫ Detrimental playing Super Mario ♫
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玩超級馬里奧是有害的
14:41
♫ [unclear] boxes [unclear] hip hop ♫
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【不清楚】盒子【不清楚】hip hop
14:45
CL: So again, it's an incredible thing that's taking place.
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查爾斯理姆：再次的，這是發生的一件非常不可思議的事情。
14:47
It's doing something that, neurologically, is remarkable.
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這是在做一件從神經學上看非同尋常的事情。
14:49
Whether or not you like the music is irrelevant.
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你是否喜歡這音樂是不相干的。
14:51
Creatively speaking, it's just a phenomenal thing.
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從創意的角度來說，這是一件了不起的事。
14:53
This is a short video of how we actually do this in a scanner.
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這是一段簡短的視頻，關於我們實際上怎麼在掃描儀中做這個實驗。
14:56
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
14:59
(Video) CL: We're here with Emmanuel.
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（視頻）查爾斯理姆：我們和伊曼紐爾在這裡。
15:01
CL: That was recorded in the scanner, by the way.
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查爾斯理姆：那是在掃描儀中錄的，順便說一句。
15:03
(Video) CL: That's Emmanuel in the scanner.
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(視頻）查爾斯理姆：那是伊曼紐爾在掃描儀裡。
15:06
He's just memorized a rhyme for us.
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他剛剛為我們記憶了一段旋律。
15:12
Emmanuel: ♫ Top of the beat with no repeat ♫
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伊曼紐爾：鼓點之巔，從不寵辱♫
15:15
♫ Rhythm and rhyme make me complete ♫
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節奏和旋律讓我完整
15:18
♫ Climb is sublime when I'm on the mic ♫
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當我在麥克風前，爬升是一種絕妙的感覺
15:21
♫ Spittin' rhymes that'll hit you like a lightning strike ♫
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分裂那些如閃電一樣撞擊你的旋律
15:23
♫ I search for the truth in this eternal quest ♫
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我在永恆的追求中尋找整理
15:26
♫ I'm passing on fashion; you can see how I'm dressed ♫
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我不為時尚而激情，你看我穿啥樣就可以知道
15:29
CL: Okay. So I'm going to stop that there. So what do we see in his brain?
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查爾斯理姆：好。我將停在這裡。所以我們在他的腦子裡看到了什麼？
15:32
Well, this is actually four rappers' brains.
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這實際上是四個說唱者的腦部圖。
15:34
And what we see, we do see language areas lighting up,
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我們看到什麼，我們看到語言區域是亮起來的，
15:36
but then -- eyes closed --
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但是然後--眼睛閉上--
15:38
when you are free-styling versus memorizing,
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當你是自由式對比記憶，
15:41
you've got major visual areas lighting up.
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你的主要視覺區域亮着。
15:43
You've got major cerebellar activity, which is involved in motor coordination.
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你將用到主要的小腦活動，它參與運動協調。
15:46
You have heightened brain activity when you're doing a comparable task,
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你的腦部活動增加，你的相對任務是，
15:49
when that one task is creative and the other task is memorized.
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當人物是創造性的，而別的任務是記憶的。
15:53
It's very preliminary, but I think it's kind of cool.
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這非常基礎，但我覺得多少有點酷。
15:55
So just to conclude, we've got a lot of questions to ask,
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所以，總結一下，我們已經有很多問題要問。
15:58
and like I said, we'll ask questions here, not answer them.
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就像我說的，我們將問問題，而不是回答它們。
16:01
But we want to get at the root of what is creative genius, neurologically,
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但是我們想達到神經學上，創作天才的根本。
16:04
and I think, with these methods, we're getting close to being there.
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而且我想，通過這些方法，我們離那裡越來越近。
16:07
And I think hopefully in the next 10, 20 years
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而且我想，希望在未來的10，20年
16:09
you'll actually see real, meaningful studies
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你將看到真正的，有意義的研究
16:11
that say science has to catch up to art,
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這些研究能表明科學在跟上藝術的腳步，
16:15
and maybe we're starting now to get there.
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而也許我們現在正在開始走向那裡。
16:17
And so I want to thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
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感謝你們的時間。 我很感激。
16:19
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Charles Limb - ResearcherCharles Limb is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.
Why you should listen
Charles Limb is the Francis A. Sooy, MD Professor and Chief of Otology/Neurotology and Skull Base Surgery at the University of California, San Francisco, and he's a Faculty Member at the Peabody Conservatory of Music. He combines his two passions to study the way the brain creates and perceives music. He's a hearing specialist and surgeon at Johns Hopkins who performs cochlear implantations on patients who have lost their hearing. And he plays sax, piano and bass.
In search of a better understanding of how the mind perceives complex auditory stimuli such as music, he's been working with Allen Braun to look at the brains of improvising musicians and study what parts of the brain are involved in the kind of deep creativity that happens when a musician is really in the groove.
Read our Q&A about hip-hop studies with Charles Limb on the TED Blog >>
Plus our quick catchup Q&A at TEDMED 2011 -- including his top 5 songs of all time >>
Read the 2014 paper "Neural Substrates of Interactive Musical Improvisation: An fMRI Study of ‘Trading Fours’ in Jazz" >>
Charles Limb | Speaker | TED.com