TED2015
Daniel Kish: How I use sonar to navigate the world
丹尼尔·基什: 声呐如何帮助我在世界前行
Filmed:
Readability: 3.5
1,393,516 views
在13个月大时，丹尼尔·基什就失明了，但他学会利用回声定位来“观看”世界。他用舌头发出嘀嗒声，送出声音，声音撞击到环境和事物的表面，然后反弹给他，帮助他构建对周围空间的理解。在独树一帜的演讲中，基什展示了他的声呐导航方法，并呼吁我们解除对“未知黑暗”的恐惧。
Daniel Kish - Perceptual navigation specialist
Daniel Kish expands the perceptual toolbox of both blind and sighted humans by teaching echolocation -- the ability to observe our surroundings via sound. Full bio
Daniel Kish expands the perceptual toolbox of both blind and sighted humans by teaching echolocation -- the ability to observe our surroundings via sound. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
(Clicking)
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（滴答声）
00:19
I was born with bilateral retinoblastoma,
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我出生时双眼都有眼癌，
00:24
retinal cancer.
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视网膜细胞瘤。
00:27
My right eye was removed
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我右眼在
00:30
at seven months of age.
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我7个月大时移除。
00:33
I was 13 months
when they removed my left eye.
when they removed my left eye.
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13个月大时，左眼移除。
00:38
The first thing I did
upon awakening from that last surgery
upon awakening from that last surgery
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我从手术中醒来做的第一件事
00:43
was to climb out of my crib
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就是爬出我的婴儿床，
00:46
and begin wandering around
the intensive care nursery,
the intensive care nursery,
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开始在加强监护婴儿室东跑西跑，
00:51
probably looking for the one
who did this to me.
who did this to me.
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可能在寻找那个把我弄成这样的人。
00:55
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:58
Evidently, wandering around the nursery
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显然，在婴儿室东跑西跑
01:02
was not a problem for me without eyes.
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对于没有双眼的我来说并不是难题。
01:05
The problem was getting caught.
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难题是不被抓住。
01:09
It's impressions about blindness
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对于失明的印象
01:12
that are far more threatening
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远比失明本身
01:16
to blind people than the blindness itself.
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让盲人更恐惧。
01:21
Think for a moment about
your own impressions of blindness.
your own impressions of blindness.
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想想自己对于失明的印象。
01:25
Think about your reactions
when I first came onto the stage,
when I first came onto the stage,
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当我刚上台时，想想你们的反应，
01:29
or the prospect of your own blindness,
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或者想想你自己失明，
01:33
or a loved one going blind.
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或者爱的人将失明的景象。
01:37
The terror is incomprehensible
to most of us,
to most of us,
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对于我们大多数人来说，
这都是难以想象的恐怖，
这都是难以想象的恐怖，
01:42
because blindness
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因为失明
01:45
is thought to epitomize ignorance
and unawareness,
and unawareness,
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被认为是无知无觉的缩影，
01:50
hapless exposure to the ravages
of the dark unknown.
of the dark unknown.
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不幸地暴露在未知黑暗的残迹之中。
01:58
How poetic.
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多么富有诗意。
02:01
Fortunately for me,
my parents were not poetic.
my parents were not poetic.
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幸运的是，我的父母没有诗意。
02:04
They were pragmatic.
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他们很实际。
02:06
They understood that ignorance and fear
were but matters of the mind,
were but matters of the mind,
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他们明白：无知和恐惧
仅仅是大脑精神层面的问题，
仅仅是大脑精神层面的问题，
02:13
and the mind is adaptable.
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并且这种想法是可以改变的。
02:17
They believed that I should grow up
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他们相信我会长大
02:20
to enjoy the same freedoms
and responsibilities as everyone else.
and responsibilities as everyone else.
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享受和其他人一样的自由与责任。
02:25
In their own words, I would move out --
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用他们的话说，我会独立居住，
02:28
which I did when I was 18 --
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我18岁时做到了，
02:31
I will pay taxes --
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我将交税。
02:33
thanks --
(Laughter) --
(Laughter) --
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谢谢
（笑声）
（笑声）
02:37
and they knew the difference
between love and fear.
between love and fear.
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他们知道爱和恐惧的区别。
02:42
Fear immobilizes us
in the face of challenge.
in the face of challenge.
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面对挑战的时候，恐惧惊住了我们。
02:47
They knew that blindness
would pose a significant challenge.
would pose a significant challenge.
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他们知道失明是个巨大的挑战。
02:50
I was not raised with fear.
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我并不是在恐惧中成长。
02:53
They put my freedom first before all else,
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他们把我的自由
看得比其他东西都重要，
看得比其他东西都重要，
02:57
because that is what love does.
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因为那就是爱。
03:00
Now, moving forward,
how do I manage today?
how do I manage today?
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继续讲，如今我是怎么生存的？
03:06
The world is a much larger nursery.
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世界是个大得多的育儿室。
03:09
Fortunately, I have my trusty long cane,
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幸运的是我有一支值得信赖的长手杖，
03:13
longer than the canes
used by most blind people.
used by most blind people.
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比其他盲人的手杖更长。
03:16
I call it my freedom staff.
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我称它为我的自由帮手。
03:19
It will keep me, for example,
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例如，它能阻止我
03:20
from making an undignified
departure from the stage. (Laughter)
departure from the stage. (Laughter)
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不优雅的离开讲台。（笑声）
03:27
I do see that cliff edge.
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我确实看到峭边。
03:30
They warned us earlier
that every imaginable mishap
that every imaginable mishap
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他们之前提醒我：
演讲者在台上遇到过各种意外。
03:33
has occurred to speakers
up here on the stage.
up here on the stage.
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03:37
I don't care to set a new precedent.
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我不介意造一个新的意外。
03:40
But beyond that,
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但是除此之外，
03:42
many of you may have heard me clicking
as I came onto the stage --
as I came onto the stage --
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大家在我来到讲台的时候，
听到我发出滴答声，
听到我发出滴答声，
03:45
(Clicking) --
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（滴答声）
03:46
with my tongue.
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用舌头发的声音。
03:48
Those are flashes of sound
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那些都是声音的反射，
03:51
that go out and reflect
from surfaces all around me,
from surfaces all around me,
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从所有我身边事物的表面反射回来，
03:56
just like a bat's sonar,
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就像一个蝙蝠的声呐，
03:58
and return to me with patterns,
with pieces of information,
with pieces of information,
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反馈给我一些信息，
04:03
much as light does for you.
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就像光反馈给你们信息一样。
04:07
And my brain, thanks to my parents,
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感谢我的父母，我的大脑
04:10
has been activated to form images
in my visual cortex,
in my visual cortex,
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能够在我的视觉皮质中筑构影像，
04:16
which we now call the imaging system,
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这就是我们所谓的成像系统，
04:19
from those patterns of information,
much as your brain does.
much as your brain does.
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借助信息的结构形成图像，
就像你们的大脑。
就像你们的大脑。
04:23
I call this process flash sonar.
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我称这个过程为“闪光声呐”。
04:26
It is how I have learned to see
through my blindness,
through my blindness,
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我就是这样学会
在失明中去看见东西，
在失明中去看见东西，
04:32
to navigate my journey
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为我导航，
04:35
through the dark unknowns
of my own challenges,
of my own challenges,
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穿过挑战性的未知黑暗，
04:39
which has earned me the moniker
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我也因此得了一个绰号
04:43
"the remarkable Batman."
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“神奇蝙蝠侠”。
04:47
Now, Batman I will accept.
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我接受蝙蝠侠这个称号。
04:49
Bats are cool. Batman is cool.
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蝙蝠很有型，蝙蝠侠很酷。
04:53
But I was not raised to think of myself
as in any way remarkable.
as in any way remarkable.
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但是我的成长教育并让我不觉得
自己任何一方面有什么奇特的。
自己任何一方面有什么奇特的。
04:59
I have always regarded myself
much like anyone else
much like anyone else
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我总是把自己看得和普通人一样，
05:03
who navigates the dark unknowns
of their own challenges.
of their own challenges.
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他们也是在挑战性的
未知黑暗中自我摸索。
未知黑暗中自我摸索。
05:09
Is that so remarkable?
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这有很奇特吗？
05:12
I do not use my eyes, I use my brain.
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我不用双眼，我用的是大脑。
05:16
Now, someone, somewhere,
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此时某地的某人，
05:19
must think that's remarkable,
or I wouldn't be up here,
or I wouldn't be up here,
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一定在想那的确很奇特，
否则我不会在这里，
否则我不会在这里，
05:23
but let's consider this for a moment.
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但是我们思考一下，
05:27
Everyone out there
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在场的所有人，
05:29
who faces or who has ever
faced a challenge,
faced a challenge,
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正面对、或曾经面对过挑战的，
05:34
raise your hands.
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举起你们的手。
05:37
Whoosh. Okay.
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呼--。好的。
05:39
Lots of hands going up, a moment,
let me do a head count.
let me do a head count.
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好多手，等一下，我数一下。
05:42
(Clicking)
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（滴答声）
05:45
This will take a while.
(Clicking) (Laughter)
(Clicking) (Laughter)
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这需要一会儿。
（滴答声）（笑声）
（滴答声）（笑声）
05:48
Okay, lots of hands in the air.
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好，空中好多手。
05:50
Keep them up. I have an idea.
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一直举着。我有个主意。
05:52
Those of you who use your brains
to navigate these challenges,
to navigate these challenges,
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你们用大脑去克服挑战的人
05:58
put your hands down.
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放下你们的手。
06:02
Okay, anyone with your hands still up
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好的，仍然举着手的人
06:05
has challenges of your own. (Laughter)
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要挑战的是你自己。（笑声）
06:10
So we all face challenges,
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我们都面对挑战，
06:12
and we all face the dark unknown,
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我们都面对未知的黑暗，
06:16
which is endemic to most challenges,
which is what most of us fear, okay?
which is what most of us fear, okay?
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大部分挑战都是这样，
这也是我们的畏惧之处，对吗？
这也是我们的畏惧之处，对吗？
06:20
But we all have brains
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但是我们都有大脑
06:24
that allow us, that activate to allow us
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大脑让我们能够
06:29
to navigate the journey
through these challenges. Okay?
through these challenges. Okay?
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在挑战中摸索前进。
06:36
Case in point: I came up here
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很好的例子：我来到这里
06:40
and -- (Clicking) -- they wouldn't tell me
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（滴答声）他们不会告诉我，
06:47
where the lectern was.
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讲台在哪里。
06:50
So you can't trust those TED folks.
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不能相信TED的工作人员。
06:54
"Find it yourself," they said.
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“自己找，”他们说。
06:56
So -- (Laughter)
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所以--（笑声）
07:01
And the feedback for the P.A. system
is no help at all.
is no help at all.
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而且广播系统的反馈也无济于事。
07:04
So now I present to you a challenge.
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我要向你们展现一个挑战。
07:07
So if you'd all close your eyes
for just a moment, okay?
for just a moment, okay?
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你们都闭上眼睛一会儿， 好吗？
07:11
And you're going to learn
a bit of flash sonar.
a bit of flash sonar.
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你们也将学会一点闪光声呐。
07:15
I'm going to make a sound.
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我会发出声响。
07:17
I'm going to hold this panel in front
of me, but I'm not going to move it.
of me, but I'm not going to move it.
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我会我面前举着这块平板，
我不会移动这块板。
我不会移动这块板。
07:20
Just listen to the sound for a moment.
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听一会儿。
07:25
Shhhhhhhhhh.
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“嘘-----------”
07:31
Okay, nothing very interesting.
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好吧，没什么特别。
07:33
Now, listen to what happens
to that same exact sound
to that same exact sound
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现在听一听我移动平板
07:36
when I move the panel.
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发出的一样的声响。
07:39
Shhhhhhhhhhh.
(Pitch getting higher and lower)
(Pitch getting higher and lower)
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“嘘------------”
（音调时高时低）
（音调时高时低）
07:50
You do not know the power
of the dark side.
of the dark side.
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你们不了解黑暗的能量。
07:53
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:55
I couldn't resist.
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我情不自已。
07:59
Okay, now keep your eyes closed
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好吧，继续闭着眼，
08:02
because, did you hear the difference?
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你们听到差别了吗？
08:04
Okay. Now, let's be sure.
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好吧，让我们确认一下。
08:07
For your challenge,
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你们的挑战是：
08:09
you tell me, just say "now"
when you hear the panel start to move.
when you hear the panel start to move.
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我开始移动平板的时候，
你们就要告诉我“现在”。
你们就要告诉我“现在”。
08:14
Okay? We'll relax into this.
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好吗？放松。
08:20
Shhhhhhh.
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“嘘-----”
08:23
Audience: Now.
Daniel Kish: Good. Excellent.
Daniel Kish: Good. Excellent.
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观众：现在。
丹尼尔·基什: 很棒。
丹尼尔·基什: 很棒。
08:25
Open your eyes.
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睁开眼睛。
08:27
All right. So just a few centimeters,
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就移动了几厘米，
08:31
you would notice the difference.
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你们就注意到这种变化。
08:34
You've experienced sonar.
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你们已经感受到声呐了。
08:37
You'd all make great blind people.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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你们都是了不起的瞎子。
（笑声）
（笑声）
08:40
Let's have a look at what can happen
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让我们看看
08:43
when this activation process
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要是这个声呐激活过程
08:46
is given some time and attention.
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得到更多的时间和关注。
08:51
(Video) Juan Ruiz: It's like
you guys can see with your eyes
you guys can see with your eyes
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（视频）Juan Ruiz: 就像
你们可以用眼睛去看一样，
你们可以用眼睛去看一样，
08:54
and we can see with our ears.
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我们可以用耳朵去看。
08:57
Brian Bushway: It's not a matter
of enjoying it more or less,
of enjoying it more or less,
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男：关键不是欣赏多与少。
09:00
it's about enjoying it differently.
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而是从不同角度去欣赏。
09:03
Shawn Marsolais: It goes across.
DK: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
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女：穿过了。
DK:对。
DK:对。
09:06
SM: And then it's gradually
coming back down again.
coming back down again.
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女：再逐渐往下。
09:10
DK: Yes!
SM: That's amazing.
SM: That's amazing.
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DK: 对！
女：太奇妙了。
女：太奇妙了。
09:11
I can, like, see the car. Holy mother!
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我能看到汽车。圣母马利亚！
09:21
J. Louchart: I love being blind.
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男2：我喜欢变瞎子。
09:24
If I had the opportunity, honestly,
I wouldn't go back to being sighted.
I wouldn't go back to being sighted.
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真诚的说，如果有机会，
我不打算重见光明了。
我不打算重见光明了。
09:27
JR: The bigger the goal,
the more obstacles you'll face,
the more obstacles you'll face,
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男3：目标越大，你面对的障碍越多，
09:31
and on the other side of that goal
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在目标的另一边
09:33
is victory.
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就是胜利。
09:35
[In Italian]
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（意大利语）
09:40
(Applause)
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（掌声）
09:50
DK: Now, do these people look terrified?
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基什: 这些人看上去很恐惧吗？
09:54
Not so much.
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没那么恐惧。
09:56
We have delivered activation training
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我们已经传授激活训练，
09:58
to tens of thousands of blind
and sighted people from all backgrounds
and sighted people from all backgrounds
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给成千上万的盲人，
以及各行各业的正常人，
以及各行各业的正常人，
10:02
in nearly 40 countries.
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遍及40个国家。
10:04
When blind people learn to see,
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当盲人学会看见，
10:09
sighted people seem inspired
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可视的人似乎受到了启发，
10:12
to want to learn to see their way
better, more clearly, with less fear,
better, more clearly, with less fear,
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他们想要学会更好更清晰、
不畏惧地看清他们的路，
不畏惧地看清他们的路，
10:18
because this exemplifies
the immense capacity within us all
the immense capacity within us all
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这证明了我们潜在的巨大能力，
10:24
to navigate any type of challenge,
through any form of darkness,
through any form of darkness,
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我们可以在任何黑暗和挑战中前行，
10:31
to discoveries unimagined
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发现无法想象的东西，
10:34
when we are activated.
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只要我们被激活。
10:39
I wish you all a most activating journey.
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我祝愿你们拥有一个激励的旅途。
10:45
Thank you very much.
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非常感谢。
10:47
(Applause)
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（掌声）
10:55
Chris Anderson: Daniel, my friend.
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安德森: 丹尼尔，我的朋友。
10:58
As I know you can see, it's
a spectacular standing ovation at TED.
a spectacular standing ovation at TED.
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我知道你看得到：
Ted观众的喝彩声壮观持久。
Ted观众的喝彩声壮观持久。
11:03
Thank you for an extraordinary talk.
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谢谢你的出众演讲。
11:06
Just one more question about your world,
your inner world that you construct.
your inner world that you construct.
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关于你的世界、你所建立的内心世界，
我还想问一个问题。
我还想问一个问题。
11:11
We think that we have things in our world
that you as a blind person don't have,
that you as a blind person don't have,
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我们认为在我们的世界中
我们拥有盲人没有的事物，
我们拥有盲人没有的事物，
11:17
but what's your world like?
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但是你的世界是怎样的？
11:18
What do you have that we don't have?
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你有我们没有的东西吗？
11:21
DK: Three hundred and sixty-degree view,
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基什：360度视角，
11:24
so my sonar works about as well
behind me as it does in front of me.
behind me as it does in front of me.
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也就是说，我的声呐
在身后和身前都看得见。
在身后和身前都看得见。
11:28
It works around corners.
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在拐角处也可以管用。
11:30
It works through surfaces.
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也可以穿过物体表面。
11:34
Generally, it's kind of a fuzzy
three-dimensional geometry.
three-dimensional geometry.
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一般而言,这是模糊的三维几何世界。
11:39
One of my students, who has now
become an instructor,
become an instructor,
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我有过一名学生，现在已经成为教员了，
11:43
when he lost his vision,
after a few months
after a few months
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在他失明后的几个月，
11:46
he was sitting in his three story house
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他正坐在三层楼高的家里，
11:48
and he realized that he could hear
everything going on throughout the house:
everything going on throughout the house:
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发觉自己能听到屋子里
正在进行的一切：
正在进行的一切：
11:52
conversations, people in the kitchen,
people in the bathroom,
people in the bathroom,
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厨房里、浴室里人们的谈话
11:56
several floors away, several walls away.
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几层之外，几墙之隔的声音。
11:59
He said it was something
like having x-ray vision.
like having x-ray vision.
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他说就像拥有X射线一样的视力。
12:02
CA: What do you picture
that you're in right now?
that you're in right now?
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安德森：你会怎样描绘现在身处的地方？
12:06
How do you picture this theater?
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你怎样描绘这个现场？
12:09
DK: Lots of loudspeakers, quite frankly.
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基什：坦白说，很多大声说话的人。
12:16
It's interesting.
When people make a sound,
When people make a sound,
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当人们发声的时候，很有趣。
12:20
when they laugh, when they fidget,
when they take a drink or blow their nose
when they take a drink or blow their nose
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当他们笑，当他们坐立不安，
当他们喝水，或者擤鼻子，
当他们喝水，或者擤鼻子，
12:25
or whatever, I hear everything.
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不管是什么，我都能听到。
12:28
I hear every little movement
that every single person makes.
that every single person makes.
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我听到人们的细微动作。
12:31
None of it really escapes my attention,
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从声呐的视角，
12:34
and then, from a sonar perspective,
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它们都在我的注意力之内，
12:36
the size of the room, the curvature
of the audience around the stage,
of the audience around the stage,
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房间的大小，观众绕讲台的曲率，
12:42
it's the height of the room.
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房间的高度。
12:45
Like I say, it's all that kind
of three-dimensional surface geometry
of three-dimensional surface geometry
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就像我说的，
环绕我的三维平面几何世界。
12:49
all around me.
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12:50
CA: Well, Daniel, you have done
a spectacular job
a spectacular job
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安德森：丹尼尔, 你的演讲很棒，
12:52
of helping us all see the world
in a different way.
in a different way.
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帮助我们用不同的方式看世界。
12:55
Thanks so much for that, truly.
DK: Thank you.
DK: Thank you.
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真诚的谢谢你。
基什：谢谢。
基什：谢谢。
12:57
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Daniel Kish - Perceptual navigation specialistDaniel Kish expands the perceptual toolbox of both blind and sighted humans by teaching echolocation -- the ability to observe our surroundings via sound.
Why you should listen
When he was 13 months old, Daniel Kish lost both eyes to retinal cancer. Driven by fearless curiosity, he taught himself to navigate by clicking his tongue and listening for echoes -- a method science calls echolocation, and that Kish calls FlashSonar.
In 2000, Kish founded World Access for the Blind as a platform to teach FlashSonar, along with other methods that the blind can use to “see” and that the sighted can use to expand their awareness. Kish and many researchers believe that echolocation produces images similar to sight, and allows the visually impaired to transcend the limited expectations of society.
Daniel Kish | Speaker | TED.com