TEDIndia 2009
Shashi Tharoor: Why nations should pursue soft power
薩西‧塔魯爾：為何國家應該追求「軟」實力
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薩西‧塔魯爾認為，印度正快速變身超級強國，不僅是透過貿易與政治力量，也透過其「軟」實力，即利用飲食、音樂、科技、寶萊塢電影，與全世界分享印度文化。他認為，長遠看來，一個國家影響世人心靈與思想的能力，已不再繫於軍隊的規模大小。
Shashi Tharoor - Politician and writer
After a long career at the UN, and a parallel life as a novelist, Shashi Tharoor became a member of India's Parliament. He spent 10 months as India's Minister for External Affairs, building connections between India and the world. Full bio
After a long career at the UN, and a parallel life as a novelist, Shashi Tharoor became a member of India's Parliament. He spent 10 months as India's Minister for External Affairs, building connections between India and the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
As an Indian, and now as a politician
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身為一名印度人，一名政治家，
00:17
and a government minister,
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也是一名政府部長，
00:19
I've become rather concerned about
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我愈來愈關心
00:21
the hype we're hearing about our own country,
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關於自己國家的討論，
00:23
all this talk about India becoming a world leader,
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這些討論全是在談印度正成為世界領袖，
00:25
even the next superpower.
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甚至是下一個超級強權。
00:27
In fact, the American publishers of my book,
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事實上，美國出版商在我的書
00:29
"The Elephant, The Tiger and the Cell Phone,"
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《大象、老虎和手機》上，
00:31
added a gratuitous subtitle saying,
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多加了一行副標題，寫著
00:33
"India: The next 21st-century power."
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「印度：下一個21世紀強國」
00:35
And I just don't think that's what India's all about,
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但我認為，這無法涵蓋有關印度的所有層面，
00:37
or should be all about.
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而印度也不應只是如此。
00:39
Indeed, what worries me is the entire notion of world leadership
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真正使我擔憂的是，領導世界的概念
00:43
seems to me terribly archaic.
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在我看來早已過時，
00:45
It's redolent of James Bond movies
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讓人想到007電影
00:47
and Kipling ballads.
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和吉卜林的詩歌。
00:49
After all, what constitutes a world leader?
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成為世界領袖的要素究竟是什麼呢？
00:51
If it's population, we're on course to top the charts.
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若是人口，我們正邁向世界首位，
00:54
We will overtake China by 2034.
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2034年就會超越中國。
00:58
Is it military strength? Well, we have the world's fourth largest army.
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是軍事力量嗎？那我們有世界第四大的軍隊。
01:01
Is it nuclear capacity? We know we have that.
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是核子武器嗎？我們知道我們有，
01:03
The Americans have even recognized it,
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美國也已在一份協定當中
01:05
in an agreement.
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接受了這一點。
01:07
Is it the economy? Well, we have now
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是經濟力量嗎？我們是目前
01:09
the fifth-largest economy in the world
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世界第五大經濟體，
01:11
in purchasing power parity terms.
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這是按購買力平價計算的，
01:13
And we continue to grow. When the rest of the world took a beating last year,
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而且正持續成長。去年，其他國家面臨了重大衝擊，
01:16
we grew at 6.7 percent.
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我們卻成長了6.7%。
01:19
But, somehow, none of that adds up to me,
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但我仍覺得，這些都無法成為
01:23
to what I think India really can aim to contribute in the world,
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我心中印度真正能對這個世界，
01:28
in this part of the 21st century.
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這個21世紀作出的貢獻。
01:30
And so I wondered, could
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我想知道，
01:33
what the future beckons for India to be all about
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印度所邁向的未來，
01:36
be a combination of these things allied to something else,
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能否是上述事物與其他東西的結合，
01:39
the power of example,
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比方說，
01:41
the attraction of India's culture,
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印度文化的吸引力，
01:44
what, in other words, people like to call "soft power."
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也就是一般所說的「軟實力」。
01:49
Soft power is a concept invented by a Harvard academic,
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軟實力的概念是由一名哈佛學者所提出，
01:52
Joseph Nye, a friend of mine.
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他是約瑟夫‧奈，是我的朋友。
01:54
And, very simply, and I'm really cutting it short because of the time limits here,
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這個概念很簡單，因為時間關係，我就簡短解釋，
01:58
it's essentially the ability of a country to attract others
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軟實力基本上是一國吸引其他國家的能力，
02:01
because of its culture, its political values,
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這個吸引力來自其文化、其政治價值觀，
02:03
its foreign policies.
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以及外交政策。
02:05
And, you know, lots of countries do this. He was writing initially about the States,
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許多國家都在進行這項工作。他本來寫的是美國，
02:08
but we know the Alliance Francaise
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但我們知道法國文化協會
02:10
is all about French soft power, the British Council.
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就是法國的軟實力，英國文化協會亦然。
02:13
The Beijing Olympics were an exercise in Chinese soft power.
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北京奧運是中國軟實力的展現，
02:16
Americans have the Voice of America and the Fulbright scholarships.
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美國則有美國之聲和傅爾布萊特獎助學金。
02:20
But, the fact is, in fact,
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不過，事實上，
02:22
that probably Hollywood and MTV and McDonalds
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好萊塢、音樂電視網和麥當勞
02:25
have done more for American soft power
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對美國影響世界的軟實力作出的貢獻，
02:27
around the world than any specifically government activity.
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可能大過任何的政府活動。
02:30
So soft power is something that really emerges
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因此軟實力是真正展現出來的東西，
02:33
partly because of governments,
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部分是因為政府力量，
02:35
but partly despite governments.
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但部分則與政府無關。
02:37
And in the information era we all live in today,
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今天，我們生活在資訊時代中，
02:40
what we might call the TED age,
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我們或許稱其為TED時代，
02:43
I'd say that countries are increasingly being judged
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我會說國家逐漸受到
02:46
by a global public that's been fed
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來自全球大眾的評斷，
02:49
on an incessant diet of Internet news,
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人們每天不斷接收網路新聞、
02:52
of televised images,
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電視影像、
02:54
of cellphone videos, of email gossip.
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手機影片、電子郵件中的八卦流言，
02:57
In other words, all sorts of communication devices
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換句話說，各種通訊設備
03:00
are telling us the stories of countries,
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都在告訴我們各國的消息，
03:02
whether or not the countries concerned want people to hear those stories.
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不管這些國家是否願意讓人知道這些訊息。
03:07
Now, in this age, again, countries with access
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現在，在這個時代，同樣地，
03:09
to multiple channels of communication
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能夠增加溝通和資訊管道的國家，
03:11
and information have a particular advantage.
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就擁有特定的優勢，
03:13
And of course they have more influence, sometimes, about how they're seen.
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當然有時也較能影響別人對它們的看法。
03:17
India has more all-news TV channels
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印度的電視新聞頻道，
03:19
than any country in the world,
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比任一國家都還多，
03:21
in fact in most of the countries in this part of the world put together.
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實際上是多過世界各國所有的新聞頻道總數。
03:25
But, the fact still is that it's not just that.
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但這樣仍是不夠的。
03:27
In order to have soft power, you have to be connected.
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要擁有軟實力，就要與外界連結。
03:30
One might argue that India has become
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也許有人會說，印度已經成為
03:32
an astonishingly connected country.
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一個與外界達成驚人連結的國家。
03:34
I think you've already heard the figures.
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我想你們已經聽過這些數字，
03:36
We've been selling 15 million cellphones a month.
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我們每個月賣出1500萬支手機，
03:40
Currently there are 509 million cellphones
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目前印度有5.09億
03:43
in Indian hands, in India.
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手機用戶，
03:45
And that makes us larger than the U.S. as a telephone market.
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使印度電話市場大過美國。
03:49
In fact, those 15 million cellphones
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事實上，每月1500萬支手機的銷量，
03:52
are the most connections that any country,
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在任何一個國家，
03:54
including the U.S. and China,
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包括美國和中國，
03:56
has ever established in the history of telecommunications.
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在電信史上都不曾達成。
03:59
But, what perhaps some of you don't realize
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但也許有些人不明白，
04:01
is how far we've come to get there.
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我們花了多大力氣才有今天。
04:03
You know, when I grew up in India,
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要知道，我在印度長大，
04:05
telephones were a rarity.
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當時電話非常稀有，
04:07
In fact, they were so rare that elected members of Parliament
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少到當選的國會成員權利
04:09
had the right to allocate 15 telephone lines
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是可以把15條電話線
04:12
as a favor to those they deemed worthy.
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分送給他們認為重要的人。
04:14
If you were lucky enough to be a wealthy businessman
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如果你正好是名富商，
04:17
or an influential journalist, or a doctor or something, you might have a telephone.
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或是具影響力的記者、醫生等等，你或許就能有部電話。
04:20
But sometimes it just sat there.
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可是，有時候電話只能成為擺飾。
04:22
I went to high school in Calcutta.
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過去我在加爾各答讀高中，
04:24
And we would look at this instrument sitting in the front foyer.
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我們看著這台機器擺在玄關，
04:26
But half the time we would pick it up
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但當我們拿起話筒，
04:28
with an expectant look on our faces,
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一臉期待，
04:30
there would be no dial tone.
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話筒裡卻常常沒有撥號音。
04:32
If there was a dial tone and you dialed a number,
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如果聽見撥號音，你撥個號碼，
04:34
the odds were two in three you wouldn't get the number you were intending to reach.
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有三分之二的情況是你無法打到正確的地方，
04:38
In fact the words "wrong number" were more popular than the word "Hello."
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其實聽到「空號」的時候比聽到「哈囉」還多。
04:41
(Laughter)
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（笑）
04:42
If you then wanted to connect to another city,
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如果你想打電話到另一個城市，
04:44
let's say from Calcutta you wanted to call Delhi,
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例如從加爾各答打到德里，
04:46
you'd have to book something called a trunk call,
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你得打一種長途電話，
04:48
and then sit by the phone all day, waiting for it to come through.
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然後坐在電話旁一整天，等你的電話接通。
04:51
Or you could pay eight times the going rate
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或者你也可以付8倍的費率
04:54
for something called a lightning call.
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打「閃電通話」，
04:56
But, lightning struck rather slowly in our country in those days,
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不過在當時的印度，「閃電」的速度似乎也比較慢，
04:58
so, it was like about a half an hour for a lightning call to come through.
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所以「閃電通話」要接通也得花上半小時。
05:02
In fact, so woeful was our telephone service
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事實上，我們的電話服務
05:05
that a Member of Parliament stood up in 1984 and complained about this.
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差到曾有國會成員在1984年出聲抱怨。
05:09
And the Then-Communications Minister replied in a lordly manner
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當時的通訊部長高傲地回應，
05:12
that in a developing country
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表示在開發中國家，
05:14
communications are a luxury, not a right,
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通訊是奢侈品，而非權利，
05:16
that the government had no obligation to provide better service,
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政府沒有義務提供更好的服務。
05:20
and if the honorable Member wasn't satisfied with his telephone,
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如果這位仁兄不滿意他的電話，
05:22
could he please return it, since there was an eight-year-long waiting list
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能否請他繳回，
05:25
for telephones in India.
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因為印度還有一大票人排隊等著要。
05:28
Now, fast-forward to today and this is what you see:
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現在，快轉到今天的印度，
05:30
the 15 million cell phones a month.
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你們看到的是每月銷售1500萬支手機。
05:32
But what is most striking is who is carrying those cell phones.
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但是哪些人持有這些手機則是最讓人驚訝。
05:36
You know, if you visit friends in the suburbs of Delhi,
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你知道嗎，如果你到德里郊區去找朋友，
05:39
on the side streets you will find a fellow with a cart
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你會在小路上看到一名推著車的小伙子，
05:42
that looks like it was designed in the 16th century,
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車看起來像是16世紀的設計，
05:45
wielding a coal-fired steam iron
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手中使用的燃煤蒸汽熨斗
05:48
that might have been invented in the 18th century.
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則可能是18世紀發明的，
05:50
He's called an isthri wala. But he's carrying a 21st-century instrument.
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他被稱作isthri wala，但他卻帶著21世紀的工具，
05:53
He's carrying a cell phone because most incoming calls are free,
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他帶著一支手機，因為大部分來電是免費的，
05:56
and that's how he gets orders from the neighborhood,
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他就是靠手機來接當地的生意，
05:58
to know where to collect clothes to get them ironed.
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知道去哪收集要燙的衣服。
06:02
The other day I was in Kerala, my home state,
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有天我在家鄉喀拉拉，
06:05
at the country farm of a friend,
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到一名朋友的鄉下農莊，
06:07
about 20 kilometers away from any place you'd consider urban.
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離城鎮大約20公里遠，
06:11
And it was a hot day and he said, "Hey, would you like some fresh coconut water?"
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那天很熱，他問我：「嘿，想喝新鮮椰子水嗎？」
06:14
And it's the best thing and the most nutritious and refreshing thing you can drink
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在熱帶的夏天裡，那是最好、最營養清爽的飲料，
06:17
on a hot day in the tropics, so I said sure.
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所以我說好。
06:20
And he whipped out his cellphone, dialed the number,
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他掏出手機，撥了號碼，
06:22
and a voice said, "I'm up here."
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有個聲音說：「我就在上面。」
06:24
And right on top of the nearest coconut tree,
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接著就在最近的椰子樹上，
06:26
with a hatchet in one hand and a cell phone in the other,
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有個人一手拿著小斧，一手拿著手機，
06:29
was a local toddy tapper,
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是個當地賣椰子水的，
06:31
who proceeded to bring down the coconuts for us to drink.
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開始把椰子帶下來給我們喝。
06:34
Fishermen are going out to sea and carrying their cell phones.
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漁民出海時也帶著手機，
06:37
When they catch the fish they call all the market towns along the coast
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抓到魚的時候，他們就打電話給沿海的市集，
06:40
to find out where they get the best possible prices.
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看看哪裡可以賣到最好的價錢。
06:42
Farmers now, who used to have to spend half a day of backbreaking labor
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過去農人得辛苦大半天，
06:46
to find out if the market town was open,
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才能知道市集有沒有開，
06:48
if the market was on,
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如果開了，
06:50
whether the product they'd harvested could be sold, what price they'd fetch.
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還得知道他們的作物能不能賣、價格如何。
06:53
They'd often send an eight year old boy all the way on this trudge
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通常他們會派個8歲小男孩做這項苦差事，
06:56
to the market town to get that information and come back,
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先到市集去打聽消息，
06:58
then they'd load the cart.
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再回來裝載貨物。
07:00
Today they're saving half a day's labor with a two minute phone call.
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現在他們省了半天勞力，只要花兩分鐘打電話就好。
07:04
So this empowerment of the underclass
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這種下層階級的權力提升，
07:07
is the real result of India being connected.
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就是印度達成訊息連結的真正結果，
07:10
And that transformation is part of where India is heading today.
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而如此轉變，是今天印度邁向的目標之一。
07:15
But, of course that's not the only thing about India that's spreading.
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不過這當然不是印度唯一正在傳播的東西。
07:18
You've got Bollywood. My attitude to Bollywood is best summarized
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你們都聽過寶萊塢，我對寶萊塢的態度可以用
07:21
in the tale of the two goats at a Bollywood garbage dump --
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兩頭山羊在垃圾場的故事來約略說明─
07:24
Mr. Shekhar Kapur, forgive me --
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抱歉，夏喀爾‧喀普爾先生─
07:28
and they're chewing away on cans of celluloid discarded by a Bollywood studio.
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兩頭羊嚼著一罐寶萊塢電影院丟棄的膠卷。
07:32
And the first goat, chewing away, says, "You know, this film is not bad."
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一頭羊邊嚼邊說：「這電影不錯。」
07:35
And the second goat says, "No, the book was better."
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另一頭說：「不，我覺得書比較好。」
07:39
(Laughter)
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（笑）
07:45
I usually tend to think that the book is usually better,
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我一直認為書通常都比較好，
07:48
but, having said that,
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話雖如此，
07:50
the fact is that Bollywood is now
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其實寶萊塢現在
07:52
taking a certain aspect of Indian-ness and Indian culture around the globe,
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正藉著某方面在全球傳播印度特色和印度文化，
07:56
not just in the Indian diaspora in the U.S. and the U.K.,
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不只是在美國和英國的印度僑民之間散佈，
07:59
but to the screens of Arabs and Africans, of Senegalese and Syrians.
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也搬上了阿拉伯、非洲、塞內加爾和敘利亞的銀幕。
08:03
I've met a young man in New York whose illiterate mother
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我曾在紐約遇到一名年輕人，
08:06
in a village in Senegal
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他不識字的母親住在塞內加爾的村落，
08:08
takes a bus once a month to the capital city of Dakar,
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每個月搭一次公車到首都達卡，
08:11
just to watch a Bollywood movie.
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就為了看一部寶萊塢電影。
08:13
She can't understand the dialogue.
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她看不懂對白，
08:15
She's illiterate, so she can't read the French subtitles.
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因為不識字，所以她看不懂法文字幕。
08:18
But these movies are made to be understood despite such handicaps,
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不過就算是這樣的人，也一樣能了解電影內容，
08:21
and she has a great time in the song and the dance and the action.
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她非常享受片中的歌舞和動作，
08:24
She goes away with stars in her eyes about India, as a result.
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透過明星，她得到了關於印度的印象。
08:28
And this is happening more and more.
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現在，這種情況愈來愈多。
08:30
Afghanistan, we know what a serious security problem
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再說阿富汗，我們知道阿富汗對世上許多人來說
08:33
Afghanistan is for so many of us in the world.
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是如何嚴重的安全威脅，
08:36
India doesn't have a military mission there.
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而印度在那裡沒有駐軍。
08:38
You know what was India's biggest asset in Afghanistan in the last seven years?
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你知道過去7年，印度在阿富汗最大的資產是什麼嗎？
08:42
One simple fact:
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是這件事：
08:44
you couldn't try to call an Afghan at 8:30 in the evening.
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你無法在晚上8點半打電話給阿富汗人。
08:47
Why? Because that was the moment
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為什麼呢？
08:49
when the Indian television soap opera,
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因為那時是印度的電視連續劇，
08:51
"Kyunki Saas Bhi Kabhi Bahu Thi," dubbed into Dari, was telecast on Tolo T.V.
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［印度語］經過Dhurrie語配音後，在Todo頻道播出的時間。
08:57
And it was the most popular television show in Afghan history.
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那是阿富汗史上最受歡迎的電視節目，
09:00
Every Afghan family wanted to watch it.
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每個阿富汗家庭都想看，
09:02
They had to suspend functions at 8:30.
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他們的生活在8點半時完全停止運作，
09:04
Weddings were reported to be interrupted
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就連婚禮也會暫停，
09:07
so guests could cluster around the T.V. set,
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讓賓客可以聚在電視機前看節目，
09:09
and then turn their attention back to the bride and groom.
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結束後再把注意力轉回新人身上。
09:12
Crime went up at 8:30. I have read a Reuters dispatch --
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犯罪率在8點半時上升。我讀過一篇路透社的報導─
09:15
so this is not Indian propaganda, a British news agency --
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路透社是英國媒體，所以這不是印度的宣傳─
09:18
about how robbers in the town of Musarri Sharif*
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報導中提到，Musarri Sharif地方的搶匪
09:21
stripped a vehicle of its windshield wipers,
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如何偷走一輛車的雨刷、
09:24
its hubcaps, its sideview mirrors,
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輪蓋、側視鏡，
09:27
any moving part they could find, at 8:30,
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以及所有拿得走的東西。這都在8點半時發生，
09:30
because the watchmen were busy watching the T.V. rather than minding the store.
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因為守衛忙著看電視，沒有注意店鋪。
09:33
And they scrawled on the windshield in a reference to the show's heroine,
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搶匪還在擋風玻璃上寫跟劇中女主角有關的字句：
09:37
"Tulsi Zindabad": "Long live Tulsi."
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「Tulsi Zindabad」：「Tulsi萬歲」
09:40
(Laughter)
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（笑）
09:41
That's soft power. And that is what India is developing
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這就是軟實力，就是印度正透過
09:45
through the "E" part of TED:
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TED的「E」發展的東西：
09:47
its own entertainment industry.
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我們的娛樂（entertainment）產業。
09:49
The same is true, of course -- we don't have time for too many more examples --
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當然這也適用於其他部分─我們沒時間講太多例子─
09:52
but it's true of our music, of our dance,
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但我們的音樂、舞蹈、
09:55
of our art, yoga, ayurveda, even Indian cuisine.
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藝術、瑜珈、草藥醫學，甚至飲食都正發揮影響。
09:59
I mean, the proliferation of Indian restaurants
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像是印度料理餐廳大量增加的時候，
10:02
since I first went abroad as a student, in the mid '70s,
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我第一次到海外留學，那是1970年代中期。
10:05
and what I see today, you can't go to a mid-size town in Europe or North America
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現在就我所見，每個歐洲或美國的中型城鎮，
10:09
and not find an Indian restaurant. It may not be a very good one.
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都能找到一間印度料理店，雖然可能不是很道地。
10:12
But, today in Britain, for example,
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不過，以現在的英國為例，
10:14
Indian restaurants in Britain
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在英國，印度餐廳
10:17
employ more people than the coal mining,
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雇用的人手比採煤、
10:19
ship building and iron and steel industries combined.
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造船、鋼鐵工業等的雇員加起來還多，
10:22
So the empire can strike back.
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這樣帝國還能反擊嗎？
10:24
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
10:31
But, with this increasing awareness of India,
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但是，伴隨人們對印度漸增的興趣、
10:33
with you and with I, and so on,
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伴隨你我和眾人、
10:35
with tales like Afghanistan,
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伴隨在阿富汗發生的故事而來的，
10:37
comes something vital in the information era,
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是在這個資訊時代的重要訊息，
10:40
the sense that in today's world
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也就是在當今世界，
10:43
it's not the side of the bigger army that wins,
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不是擁有強大軍隊的一方勝利，
10:46
it's the country that tells a better story that prevails.
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而是故事說得比較好的國家，才能獨領風騷。
10:49
And India is, and must remain, in my view, the land of the better story.
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我認為，印度是是故事比較好的國家，而且必須保持。
10:54
Stereotypes are changing. I mean, again, having gone to the U.S.
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刻板印象正在改變。這裡要再次提到，
10:57
as a student in the mid '70s,
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作為一名在1970年代中期的留美學生，
10:59
I knew what the image of India was then, if there was an image at all.
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如果印度曾給人一種印象，我知道那印象是什麼。
11:02
Today, people in Silicon Valley and elsewhere
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現在，矽谷和其他地方的人
11:05
speak of the IITs, the Indian Institutes of Technology
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談到IITs，也就是印度理工學院，
11:08
with the same reverence they used to accord to MIT.
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就像他們談及麻省理工時一樣推崇。
11:12
This can sometimes have unintended consequences. OK.
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這有時候會造成一些意外的情況。
11:14
I had a friend, a history major like me,
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我有個朋友，跟我一樣主修歷史，
11:17
who was accosted at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam,
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在阿姆斯特丹的史基浦機場，
11:20
by an anxiously perspiring European saying,
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有個急得滿頭大汗的歐洲人跑去問他：
11:22
"You're Indian, you're Indian! Can you help me fix my laptop?"
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「你是印度人！你是印度人！可以幫我修理筆電嗎？」
11:25
(Laughter)
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（笑）
11:27
We've gone from the image of India as
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印度的形象，
11:30
land of fakirs lying on beds of nails,
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已經從躺在釘床上的苦行僧，
11:33
and snake charmers with the Indian rope trick,
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還有表演繩索特技的弄蛇人，
11:36
to the image of India as a land of mathematical geniuses,
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變成印度充滿數學天才、
11:39
computer wizards, software gurus.
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電腦奇才、軟體專家，
11:41
But that too is transforming the Indian story around the world.
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但這也改變了印度在世界各地的故事。
11:46
But, there is something more substantive to that.
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不過，除此之外，還有更重要的東西。
11:48
The story rests on a fundamental platform
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印度的故事建立在一個基礎上，
11:50
of political pluralism.
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也就是政治多元化。
11:52
It's a civilizational story to begin with.
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這是個印度逐漸邁向文明的故事。
11:54
Because India has been an open society for millennia.
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因為千年以來，印度一直是個開放的社會，
11:59
India gave refuge to the Jews, fleeing the destruction of the first temple
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印度給予猶太人庇護，他們從摧毀第一聖殿的
12:04
by the Babylonians, and said thereafter by the Romans.
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巴比倫人手中逃離，後來又據說是從羅馬人那裡逃離。
12:07
In fact, legend has is that when Doubting Thomas, the Apostle, Saint Thomas,
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事實上，傳說事事懷疑的湯瑪斯，使徒聖湯瑪斯
12:12
landed on the shores of Kerala, my home state,
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在我的家鄉喀拉拉沿海上岸的時候，
12:14
somewhere around 52 A.D.,
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那時大概是西元52年，
12:16
he was welcomed on shore by a flute-playing Jewish girl.
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有個吹笛的猶太女孩在岸邊歡迎他。
12:19
And to this day remains the only Jewish diaspora
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到今天，這是唯一一個
12:23
in the history of the Jewish people, which has never encountered
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在猶太人歷史上，
12:25
a single incident of anti-semitism.
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從未發生反猶太事件的猶太僑居地。
12:28
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
12:34
That's the Indian story.
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這就是印度的故事，
12:36
Islam came peacefully to the south,
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伊斯蘭教和平來到南方，
12:38
slightly more differently complicated history in the north.
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北方的歷史則是稍微複雜了點，
12:40
But all of these religions have found a place and a welcome home in India.
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但是，這些宗教全都在印度找到安身之所。
12:45
You know, we just celebrated, this year, our general elections,
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今年我們剛舉行過大選，
12:48
the biggest exercise in democratic franchise in human history.
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那是人類史上規模最大的民主活動，
12:51
And the next one will be even bigger, because our voting population
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且下一次的規模還會更大，因為我們的投票人口
12:53
keeps growing by 20 million a year.
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每年增加2000萬人。
12:56
But, the fact is
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但事實上，
12:58
that the last elections, five years ago,
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上一次的大選，那是在五年前，
13:00
gave the world extraordinary phenomenon
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讓全世界看見過去沒有的景象，
13:02
of an election being won by a woman political leader
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由女性政治領袖贏得選舉，
13:06
of Italian origin and Roman Catholic faith, Sonia Gandhi,
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她是義大利裔的天主教徒，桑妮雅‧甘地，
13:09
who then made way for a Sikh, Mohan Singh,
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讓信仰錫克教的曼莫漢‧辛格
13:12
to be sworn in as Prime Minister
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當上印度總理，
13:14
by a Muslim, President Abdul Kalam,
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而且是經由身為穆斯林的總統卡蘭手中，
13:17
in a country 81 percent Hindu.
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在印度教徒占總人口81%的國家上任。
13:19
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
13:28
This is India, and of course it's all the more striking
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這就是印度，而且這相當引人注意，
13:31
because it was four years later that we all applauded
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因為四年後，我們都稱讚美國，
13:33
the U.S., the oldest democracy in the modern world,
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這個現代世界實行民主最久的國家，
13:37
more than 220 years of free and fair elections,
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實施超過220年的自由公平選舉，
13:40
which took till last year to elect a president or a vice president
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但一直要到去年的選舉，
13:44
who wasn't white, male or Christian.
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才打破“白人男性基督徒”的慣例。
13:46
So, maybe -- oh sorry, he is Christian, I beg your pardon --
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所以，也許─噢抱歉，他是基督徒，原諒我說錯了─
13:49
and he is male, but he isn't white.
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而且他是男的，不過他不是白人。
13:51
All the others have been all those three.
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其他美國總統都包含那三項條件。
13:53
(Laughter)
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（笑）
13:55
All his predecessors have been all those three,
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在他之前的美國總統都包含這三點，
13:57
and that's the point I was trying to make.
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這才是我剛剛想說的重點。
13:59
(Laughter)
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（笑）
14:00
But, the issue is
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但是，問題是，
14:02
that when I talked about that example,
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我舉了這個例子，
14:04
it's not just about talking about India, it's not propaganda.
298
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不只是在談論印度，不是在幫印度宣傳。
14:09
Because ultimately, that electoral outcome
299
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因為到最後，選舉的結果
14:12
had nothing to do with the rest of the world.
300
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跟其他國家毫無關係，
14:14
It was essentially India being itself.
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本質上是關於印度本身。
14:16
And ultimately, it seems to me,
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而且最終，在我看來，
14:18
that always works better than propaganda.
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這似乎比刻意宣傳更有效。
14:20
Governments aren't very good at telling stories.
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各國政府不太擅長說故事，
14:23
But people see a society for what it is,
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但是人們看到的是真實的社會，
14:25
and that, it seems to me, is what ultimately
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而我認為，這才能夠
14:27
will make a difference in today's information era,
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影響今天的資訊時代，
14:31
in today's TED age.
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影響這個TED年代。
14:33
So India now is no longer
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所以現在的印度，已不再
14:36
the nationalism of ethnicity or language or religion,
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秉持種族、語言或宗教的民族主義，
14:40
because we have every ethnicity known to mankind, practically,
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因為我們的人民幾乎涵蓋所有種族，
14:42
we've every religion know to mankind,
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我們也有世界上所有的宗教，
14:44
with the possible exception of Shintoism,
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只有神道教可能例外，
14:46
though that has some Hindu elements somewhere.
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雖然那其中包含一些印度教的成分。
14:49
We have 23 official languages that are recognized in our Constitution.
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我們的憲法中規定了23種官方語言，
14:54
And those of you who cashed your money here
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曾在這裡換過現金的人，
14:56
might be surprised to see how many scripts there are
317
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也許會嚇到，因為盧比上寫了
14:59
on the rupee note, spelling out the denominations.
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許多種語言，全是用來表示面額。
15:01
We've got all of that.
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我們擁有的就是這些。
15:03
We don't even have geography uniting us,
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我們甚至沒有地理條件來幫助我們團結，
15:05
because the natural geography of the subcontinent
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因為次大陸的地理環境
15:08
framed by the mountains and the sea was hacked
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被山與海包圍，而這個外框
15:10
by the partition with Pakistan in 1947.
323
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在1947年被巴基斯坦的分裂打破。
15:13
In fact, you can't even take the name of the country for granted,
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事實上，你甚至不能把這個國家的名字看作理所當然。
15:16
because the name "India" comes from the river Indus,
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因為「印度」這個名稱來自印度河，
15:18
which flows in Pakistan.
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而印度河位於巴基斯坦境內。
15:20
But, the whole point is that India
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但是，重點是印度
15:23
is the nationalism of an idea.
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是一個民族主義的概念。
15:25
It's the idea of an ever-ever-land,
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這個概念是一片無垠的土地，
15:28
emerging from an ancient civilization,
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源自一種古老的文明，
15:30
united by a shared history,
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因為共同的歷史而結合，
15:32
but sustained, above all, by pluralist democracy.
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但最重要的是透過多元民主來長遠發展。
15:35
That is a 21st-century story as well as an ancient one.
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這是個21世紀的故事，也是個古老的故事。
15:39
And it's the nationalism of an idea that
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而且這個民族主義的概念，
15:42
essentially says you can endure differences of caste, creed,
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主張的是你可以包容各種差異，包括種姓、宗教、
15:46
color, culture, cuisine, custom and costume, consonant, for that matter,
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膚色、文化、飲食、風俗、服裝、子音等等，
15:51
and still rally around a consensus.
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而且仍然團結，具有共識。
15:54
And the consensus is of a very simple principle,
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這個共識是個很簡單的原則，
15:56
that in a diverse plural democracy like India
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就是在像印度一樣複雜多元的民主制度中，
16:00
you don't really have to agree on everything all the time,
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你並不需要同意每一件事，
16:04
so long as you agree on the ground rules
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只要你遵守基本的規則，
16:06
of how you will disagree.
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知道如何表達你的不同意。
16:08
The great success story of India,
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印度，
16:10
a country that so many learned scholars and journalists
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這個在1950和60年代，被許多學者專家和新聞工作者
16:13
assumed would disintegrate, in the '50s and '60s,
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認為會瓦解的國家，其成功的故事在於
16:16
is that it managed to maintain consensus on how to survive without consensus.
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印度努力維持了一項共識，就是「如何在沒有共識中生存」。
16:21
Now, that is the India that is emerging into the 21st century.
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現在在21世紀崛起的國家是印度，
16:25
And I do want to make the point
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而我要在此強調，
16:27
that if there is anything worth celebrating about India,
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如果印度有什麼值得讚美的東西，
16:30
it isn't military muscle, economic power.
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那絕非軍事或經濟的力量。
16:32
All of that is necessary,
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那些都是必要的，
16:34
but we still have huge amounts of problems to overcome.
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但我們仍有成堆的問題尚待解決。
16:37
Somebody said we are super poor, and we are also super power.
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有些人說我們是超級窮國，也是超級強權，
16:40
We can't really be both of those.
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而我們不可能真的身兼二者。
16:42
We have to overcome our poverty. We have to deal with the
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我們必須擺脫貧窮，必須解決
16:44
hardware of development,
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國家發展的硬體建設問題，
16:46
the ports, the roads, the airports,
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像是港口、道路、機場，
16:48
all the infrastructural things we need to do,
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這些我們必須進行的公共建設，
16:50
and the software of development,
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以及軟體方面，
16:52
the human capital, the need for the ordinary person in India
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例如人力資本，例如讓一般印度人民
16:56
to be able to have a couple of square meals a day,
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可以每天吃得飽足，
16:59
to be able to send his or her children
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有能力送他／她的子女
17:01
to a decent school,
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上一間好學校，
17:03
and to aspire to work a job
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並且有志得到一份
17:05
that will give them opportunities in their lives
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能在他們生命中，
17:08
that can transform themselves.
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讓他們有機會翻身的工作。
17:10
But, it's all taking place, this great adventure of conquering those challenges,
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但是，我們必須克服這些挑戰，這是一項大工程，
17:14
those real challenges which none of us can pretend don't exist.
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我們不能假裝這些真正的挑戰不存在。
17:17
But, it's all taking place in an open society,
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這一切都發生在一個開放的社會中，
17:20
in a rich and diverse and plural civilization,
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在一個富裕、歧異而多元的文明當中，
17:23
in one that is determined to liberate and fulfill
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這個社會必定要釋放並滿足
17:26
the creative energies of its people.
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人民的創意能量。
17:28
That's why India belongs at TED,
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這就是印度為何屬於TED，
17:31
and that's why TED belongs in India.
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也是TED為何屬於印度。
17:33
Thank you very much.
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非常謝謝大家。
17:35
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Shashi Tharoor - Politician and writerAfter a long career at the UN, and a parallel life as a novelist, Shashi Tharoor became a member of India's Parliament. He spent 10 months as India's Minister for External Affairs, building connections between India and the world.
Why you should listen
In May 2009, Shashi Tharoor was elected to Parliament, representing the Thiruvananthapuram constituency in Kerala. For 10 months, he also served as Minister for External Affairs, charged with helping India engage with the world. Follow him on Twitter, @shashitharoor, or his YouTube channel, to get a look in at his whirlwind life of service.
Before entering politics, Tharoor spent almost three decades with the UN as a refugee worker and peace-keeper, working as a senior adviser to the Secretary-General. Meanwhile, he maintained a parallel career as a writer, producing three novels, a biography of Nehru and several collections of essays on literature and global affairs (plus hundreds of articles for magazines and journals). He was the UN Under-Secretary General for Communications and Public Information under Kofi Annan, and was India's candidate in 2006 for the post of Secretary-General. He left the UN in 2007.
His latest book is Shadows Across the Playing Field: 60 Years of India-Pakistan Cricket, written with former Pakistan foreign secretary (and cricket legend) Shaharyar Khan.
Shashi Tharoor | Speaker | TED.com