Jack Dorsey: How Twitter needs to change
잭 도시(Jack Dorsey): 트위터는 어떻게 바뀌어야 할까요
Jack Dorsey is the CEO of Twitter, CEO & Chairman of Square, and a cofounder of both. Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bioWhitney Pennington Rodgers - TED Current Affairs Curator
Whitney Pennington Rodgers is an award-winning journalist and media professional. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
What worries you right now?
지금 걱정하는 건 무엇인가요?
about lots of issues on Twitter.
알고 계실 겁니다
걱정하는 것은 무엇인가요?
the health of the conversation.
대화의 건전성이요.
the public conversation,
기여하는 것이지만
a number of attacks on it.
많은 공격을 봤습니다.
misinformation.
또는 허위정보도 있었습니다.
that we were not expecting
starting the company.
예상치 못했던 것들이죠.
점점 커졌습니다.
is just our ability to address it
이 문제를 다루는 저희의 능력입니다.
of how we're taking action,
철저히 이해해야 해요.
of how we're taking action
확실한 이해가 필요해요.
for when we're wrong,
확실한 항소 절차가 필요하죠.
저지를 수밖에 없으니까요.
I'm really glad to hear
그런 걱정을 들으니 정말 기쁘네요.
a lot written about people
괴롭힘을 당하는
and harassed on Twitter,
than women and women of color
a report a few months ago
of active black female Twitter users
one in 10 of their tweets
평균적으로 10번 중에 1번은
for the community on Twitter,
생각을 말씀하실 때
"health for everyone,"
흥미롭게 들었습니다.
to make Twitter a safe space
여성, 유색인종인 여성과
for women of color and black women?
만들 계획이신가요?
something about the world,
reporting abuse, receiving abuse,
비방 받거나, 괴롭힘을 당하고
is just the incentives
플랫폼과 서비스가
and the service provides.
makes it super-easy to harass
너무 쉬운 시스템이죠.
of our system in the past
저희 시스템의 대부분은
reporting harassment and abuse.
신고하는 것에만 의지했었죠.
we decided that we were going to apply
a lot more deep learning to the problem,
딥 러닝을 적용해 보기로 결정했습니다.
around where abuse is happening,
대해 사전 대책을 찾으려 했습니다.
off the victim completely.
완전히 덜어버리기 위해서요.
진전이 있었습니다.
are now proactively identified
비방 트윗 중 38%를
have to report them.
신고할 필요가 없어졌습니다.
are still reviewed by humans,
여전히 사람이 검토합니다
without a human actually reviewing it.
컨텐츠나 계정을 삭제하지 않습니다.
just a year ago.
일 년 전만 해도 0%였죠.
had to actually report it,
직접 신고해야만 했고,
a lot of work for us
너무 복잡한 일이었습니다.
is making sure that we, as a company,
that we're trying to serve.
표현할 수 있게 만드는 겁니다.
that is successful
of perspective inside of our walls
다양한 시각이 없다면
every single day.
구축할 수 없습니다.
that's doing the work,
이뤄져야 하는 거죠.
for what people are experiencing
공감대를 형성하고
더 나은 도구를 주려는 겁니다.
a much better and easier approach
처리할 수 있는
that they're seeing.
제공해야 합니다.
is around technology,
기술과 관련된 것이지만
the incentives on the service:
when you first open it up?
무엇을 하도록 유도하나요?
it's incented a lot of mob behavior,
많은 군중 행위를 일으켰으며
at some of the fundamentals
서비스가 하는 일의
to make the bigger shifts.
around technology, as I just described,
수많은 작은 변화를 만들 수 있습니다.
at the dynamics in the network itself,
역학관계를 자세히 살펴봐야 합니다.
that you might be able to change
fundamentally shift behavior?
with this concept of following an account,
함께 시작했죠.
people actually come to Twitter.
그것 때문이 아니라고 생각해요.
as an interest-based network.
트위터가 최고라고 생각합니다.
to find and follow the related accounts
팔로우하기까지 할 일이 너무 많죠.
is allow you to follow an interest,
to show all of the accounts,
all the hashtags
particular topic and interest,
the perspective that you see.
away from just an account bias
주제와 흥미에 기댄
so much content on there
of people around the world
contest with each other
때문이지 않나요?
of people who just read Twitter,
시각에서 봤을 때는요.
everyone's out there saying,
사람들은 실제로 이렇게 말해요.
a few more 'likes,' followers, retweets."
팔로워, 리트윗을 얻고 싶어" 라고요.
is that the number one path to do that
최고의 방법은
불쾌하게 만드는 거였어요.
are a dream on Twitter,
꿈꾸는 사람들이죠.
process of driving outrage.
붓는 꼴이 되는 거죠.
다시 돌아 가는데요.
we made in the early days was
how many people follow you.
should be big and bold,
that's big and bold has importance,
that you want to drive.
the follower count as much.
강조하진 않을 거예요.
the "like" count as much.
강조하지 않을 거고요.
create "like" in the first place,
만들지도 않을 것 같네요.
to be the most important thing,
생각하기 때문이에요.
back to the network
건전하게 기여하는 것,
배우는 것이 가장 중요하죠.
that we thought of 13 years ago,
생각하지 못했던 것들이지만
important right now.
중요하게 여기는 것이에요.
how we display the follower count,
어떻게 팔로워 수를 표시하고
표시할지 입니다.
that we want people to drive up?
이 숫자들을 높이길 원하는 걸까요?
when you open Twitter,
그 숫자를 보고 이러실 수 있죠.
I need to increase?"
that's the case right now.
some of the tweets
in from the audience as well.
of the amazing things about Twitter
more questions, more points of view
훨씬 더 많은 지식, 더 많은 질문,
are really healthy.
건강한 내용일 때도 있고요.
passed already quickly down here,
이런 질문이 있네요.
foreign meddling in the 2020 US election?"
외부 간섭을 어떻게 방지할 계획이죠?"
that's an issue we're seeing
automated activity happening.
많이 보게 되죠.
in fact, we have some work
at Zignal Labs,
자료를 받았는데
to give us an example
malicious account activity,
things like elections.
사용되고 있습니다.
from Zignal which they've shared with us
they have from Twitter,
human accounts, each dot is an account.
실제 사람의 계정을 뜻해요
a few humans interacting with bots.
교류하는지 보이실 겁니다.
to the election in Israel
선거 데이터인데요.
about Benny Gantz,
퍼뜨리고 있습니다.
that was an election
in some case influenced by this.
that happening on Twitter,
생각해보셨을 때
that you're doing, specifically,
like this spreading in this way,
영향을 미치지 않도록
that could affect democracy?
the health of a conversation,
측정할 수 있을까?
that you have indicators
in terms of are we healthy or not,
척도를 가지고 있습니다.
the flushness of your face,
the indicators of conversational health.
측정할 수 있다고 믿습니다.
called Cortico at MIT
협업하고 있습니다.
측정할 수 있다고 믿는
measure on the system.
제시하기 위해서요.
what we're calling shared attention.
부르는 것인데요.
of the conversation is attentive
대화에 대해서 각각
측정하는 지수입니다.
지표인데요.
of the conversation
are truthful or not,
the same facts as we converse?
공유하고 있는지 말이죠.
is receptive or civil
is variety of perspective.
or echo chambers,
경험하고 있는 건지,
a variety of opinions
is the understanding that,
암묵적으로 나타나는 건
gets healthier and healthier.
대화도 더 건강해진다는 거죠.
if we can measure these online,
측정 가능한지 확인하는 것이며,
around receptivity.
가장 높은 가속도가 붙고 있어요.
a toxicity model, on our system
시스템 상에 보유하고 있습니다.
whether you are likely to walk away
that you're having on Twitter
trend over time
어떤 추세를 보이는지 확인하고
that these are balanced,
균형을 이루는 것입니다.
you might decrease another.
다른 지수는 떨어지기 때문이죠.
shared reality.
of the questions flooding in here.
골라보죠.
of Nazis from Twitter?
얼마나 힘든 건지 궁금해하네요.
around violent extremist groups,
정책이 있습니다.
and our terms of service
이루어집니다.
harass someone,
관련될 수 있는
사용하는 행동들이요.
that we act on immediately.
즉시 조치를 취합니다.
where that term is used fairly loosely,
사용되곤 하지만
any one mention of that word
다른 사람을 비난하기 위해
should be removed from the platform.
제거되야 한다는 사실에 입각해서요.
are based around, number one:
이런 수칙에 기반하고 있습니다.
with a violent extremist group?
극단주의자들과 연관되어 있는가?
and the American Nazi Party and others.
미국 나치당원 등을 처리했죠.
imagery or conduct
연관될 수 있는 사진이나 행동을
working on content moderation
사람들은 얼마나 있나요?
that we're, number one,
수많은 사람들을 고용하기보다
hiring massive amounts of people,
that this is scalable,
확신하고 싶었고
that can actually scale this.
너무 많은 사람이 필요하기 때문입니다.
around proactive detection of abuse
비방을 사전적으로 탐지하기 위해
scouring every single tweet
interesting ones to the top
제일 위쪽으로 올리면
to whether we should take action or not,
조치를 취할지 말지 결정하는
of people that are scalable,
인원은 없다고 하셨지만,
monitoring these accounts,
요원들은 얼마나 있나요?
어떻게 알죠?
스팸으로 분류하고
with abuse and harassment.
비방과 괴롭힘으로 분류할 때도 있어요.
we have flexibility in our people
곧바로 일할 수 있게
at what is most needed.
가질 수 있게 하고 싶어요.
in Mexico, one coming up in India,
인도에서도 곧 선거가 있죠.
the midterm election,
with our resources.
유연하게 사용하고 싶어요.
to our current terms of service
and harassment that you just received
our terms of service to report it,
궁금해져서 확인해보면
when you open that page
property protection.
알 수 있습니다.
abuse, harassment
그 외에도 경험할 수 있는 것에 관한
that you might be experiencing.
over the company's history,
그렇게 되었는지 모르지만,
the thing that people want
조치를 취해줬으면 하는 것을
and to actually act on.
what we believed was important.
가장 중요하게 생각하는 것들의 순서죠.
so that they're human-readable
언제 어기지 않았는지
understand themselves
이해할 수 있도록
and when something is not.
규칙을 단순화하려고 합니다.
the burden of work from the victims.
집중하고 있습니다.
towards technology,
having to review that work.
벗어나려는 거죠.
that's super, super negative,
between the technology
of finding and reporting them.
메커니즘에 그치지 않을 겁니다.
about what you said.
더 궁금한게 있어요.
you are looking for ways
design of the system
바꾸는 방법을 찾고 계신다니 기쁩니다.
behavior, and perhaps --
to that "like" button be?
is that I believe fundamentally
facing the world
not any one particular nation-state,
도움을 줄 수 있습니다.
전세계가 직면한 문제요.
dynamics of Twitter,
and participate in it.
대화에 참여할 수 있어요.
like climate change.
like the displacement in the work
like economic disparity.
to solve the problem alone.
Twitter can play a part.
일조할 수 있다는 겁니다.
right now, when you go to it,
지금 트위터에 들어갔을 때
feeling like you learned something.
떠나진 않죠.
a very, very rich network,
that they learn from every single day.
매일 배우기도 하겠죠.
and a lot of time to build up to that.
많은 노력과 시간이 필요합니다.
to those topics and those interests
그런 주제와 흥미를
they're finding something that,
몇 시간을 있든
they spend on Twitter --
the time on Twitter,
시간을 최대화하기보다
what they actually take away from it
that a lot of people want to know.
핵심 질문이거든요.
to a huge extent,
is from advertising --
user time, if need be,
말씀이신가요?
less time on the service,
서비스 이용시간이 줄겠죠.
that, like, you're coming to Twitter,
that you learn from and that you push.
배워갔으면 좋겠어요.
할 수 있으니까요.
any more time to see more.
써야 한다는 의미는 아녜요.
daily active usage,
일일 사용량이 많다고
that doesn't necessarily mean things
여긴다는 뜻은 아니잖아요.
like a moth to the flame, every day.
매일 끌려가는 거죠.
something that pisses us off,
매일 저를 열받게 하는 일을 보면
dangerous term to be optimizing.
너무 위험한 단어 같네요.
finish the other metric,
healthy contribution back to the network,
건강한 기여를 할 수 있게끔
is actually participating in conversation
건강한 대화에 참여하는 거라 생각해요.
I articulated earlier.
4가지 지표로 정의된 건강한 대화요.
around one metric.
활용할 순 없습니다.
a healthy contribution to the network
건강한 기여를 하고
"Hey, I learned something from Twitter,
가치있는 걸 가지고 떠나게 됐어"
with something valuable."
궁극적인 목표예요.
I think to me, as this enigma.
다가오네요.
but I woke up the other night
어느 날 밤에 제가 일어나서
thinking about you and the situation,
어떻게 생각하는지 그림을 그려보자면
on this ship called the "Twittanic" --
멋진 여행을 떠나는 그림이 떠올라요.
listen to me, I want to hear."
듣고 싶어요."라고 말하죠.
"We're worried about the iceberg ahead."
걱정돼요."라고 말하면
that is a powerful point,
"정말 중요한 이야기네요.
hasn't been built properly
저희는 말하죠. "뭐라도 좀 해봐요."
this extraordinary calm,
당신은 놀랍도록 평온하게 보이고
saying, "Jack, turn the fucking wheel!"
"젠장, 키를 돌려요!"라고 소리치죠.
It's our world at stake.
이 세상이 위태로워요.
많은 부분을 형성하고 있죠.
of the other platforms,
to set the agenda,
안건을 제시하는 데 이용해요.
important role in the world than to ...
상상하기 힘들죠.
of listening, Jack, and hearing people,
들어주는 훌륭한 일을 한다는 거예요.
and move on this stuff --
그 문제로 넘어가려는데
moving substantially.
a few dynamics in Twitter's history.
큰 변화가 있었어요.
in terms of our future,
꽤 심각한 상황이었죠.
were using the platform,
쓰는지 뿐만 아니라
a bunch of the foundation,
for what we were doing,
회사가 너무 커졌고
the public conversation.
with the fundamentals.
깨달았습니다.
to address what you're talking about,
여러 피상적인 것 할 수 있었지만
to what we started 13 years ago
관심을 가지고
and how the framework works
뭔지 질문을 던지는 걸 뜻하죠.
and how people are using it.
그걸 어떻게 쓰는지 고려하면서 말이죠.
but quickness will not get the job done.
빠르기만 해서는 해결할 수 없습니다.
the fundamentals of the network
and being transparent about where are
우리가 어디에 있는지 받아들이고
that we've put in place.
모든 체계가 자랑스러워요.
움직일 수 있지만
of stupid stuff we were doing in the past.
여러 바보같은 일도 멈춰야 해요.
who, if given the chance,
당신이 다루고 있는
on this change-making agenda you're on,
사람들이 많을 거예요.
and speaking so openly.
솔직하게 말씀해주셔서 감사합니다.
and good luck with your mission.
원하시는 목표를 이루시기 바랍니다.
Thanks for having me.
초대해주셔서 감사합니다.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jack Dorsey - Entrepreneur, programmerJack Dorsey is the CEO of Twitter, CEO & Chairman of Square, and a cofounder of both.
Why you should listen
More profile about the speaker
Jack Dorsey | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
Whitney Pennington Rodgers - TED Current Affairs Curator
Whitney Pennington Rodgers is an award-winning journalist and media professional.
Why you should listen
Prior to joining TED as current affairs curator, Whitney Pennington Rodgers produced for NBC's primetime news magazine Dateline NBC. She earned a duPont-Columbia award and a News & Documentary Emmy or her contributions to the Dateline NBC hour "The Cosby Accusers Speak" -- an extensive group interview with 27 of the women who accused entertainer Bill Cosby of sexual misconduct.
Pennington Rodgers has worked at NBC's in-house production company Peacock Productions, The Today Show, Nightly News, Rock Center with Brian Williams and New Jersey-centric public affairs shows Caucus: New Jersey and One-on-One with Steve Adubato. Prior to beginning her career in media, she had a short stint as a fourth-grade teacher through the Teach for America program.
Pennington Rodgers received her Bachelor's in journalism and media studies from Rutgers University. She completed her Master's of Journalism at the University of California at Berkeley, where she produced a documentary about recruitment of nonblack students at historically black colleges and universities.
Whitney Pennington Rodgers | Speaker | TED.com