TEDGlobal 2014
Joe Madiath: Better toilets, better life
乔·马蒂亚斯: 更好的厕所，更美好的生活
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在印度农村，缺乏厕所产生的问题严重而恶心。缺乏厕所会导致水质低下，这对妇女的负面影响远远大于男性，而且水质低下也是印度主要的疾病原因之一。乔·马蒂亚斯在此介绍一个协助乡村进行自我改善的项目，该项目需要全村人合作，来建设洁净而受保护的供水和卫生系统——它带来的显著益处波及健康，教育，甚至政务领域。
Joe Madiath - Social entrepreneur
Joe Madiath brings Indian villagers together around water and sanitation projects. Full bio
Joe Madiath brings Indian villagers together around water and sanitation projects. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
It is very fashionable and proper
to speak about food
to speak about food
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谈论食物是很时兴，也很适当的，
00:20
in all its forms, all its colors,
aromas and tastes.
aromas and tastes.
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探讨食物的种类，色泽，芳香，和味道。
00:27
But after the food goes through
the digestive system,
the digestive system,
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但是当食物穿过消化系统，
00:33
when it is thrown out as crap,
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变成粪便排出来后，
00:36
it is no longer fashionable
to speak about it.
to speak about it.
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再去谈论就不那么时兴了，
00:40
It is rather revolting.
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而且反而会很恶心。
00:45
I'm a guy who has graduated
from bullshit to full-shit.
from bullshit to full-shit.
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我是从牛粪毕业成大粪的人。
00:52
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:55
My organization, Gram Vikas, which means
"village development organization,"
"village development organization,"
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我的组织，Gram Vikas，
意思是“乡村发展组织”，
意思是“乡村发展组织”，
01:02
was working in the area
of renewable energy.
of renewable energy.
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正致力于可再生能源领域。
01:05
On the most part, we were
producing biogas,
producing biogas,
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我们的主要工作，是制作沼气，
01:09
biogas for rural kitchens.
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可供农村厨房使用的沼气。
01:14
We produce biogas in India
by using animal manure,
by using animal manure,
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我们在印度使用动物肥料制作沼气。
01:20
which usually, in India,
is called cow dung.
is called cow dung.
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在印度，动物肥料通常被称为母牛粪。
01:22
But as the gender-sensitive
person that I am,
person that I am,
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但我是对性别敏感的人，
01:26
I would like to call it bullshit.
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我就叫它牛粪吧。
01:29
But realizing later on
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但是后来，我们意识到
01:31
how important were sanitation
and the disposal of crap in a proper way,
and the disposal of crap in a proper way,
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卫生的重要性，
以及妥当处理粪便的重要性，
以及妥当处理粪便的重要性，
01:39
we went into the arena of sanitation.
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我们开始投身于卫生领域。
01:45
Eighty percent of all diseases
in India and most developing countries
in India and most developing countries
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在印度和大多数发展中国家，80%的疾病
01:53
are because of poor quality water.
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是水质低下造成的。
01:57
And when we look at the reason
for poor quality water,
for poor quality water,
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如果我们寻找水质低下的原因，
02:01
you find that it is our abysmal attitude
to the disposal of human waste.
to the disposal of human waste.
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我们对人类粪便处理的糟糕态度
是罪魁祸首。
是罪魁祸首。
02:08
Human waste, in its rawest form,
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人类粪便，以其最原始的形态，
02:12
finds its way back to drinking water,
bathing water, washing water,
bathing water, washing water,
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又回到了饮用水，洗澡水，清洗用水，
02:18
irrigation water, whatever water you see.
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灌溉用水，等各种形式的用水中。
02:22
And this is the cause for 80 percent
of the diseases in rural areas.
of the diseases in rural areas.
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这造成了农村地区80%的疾病。
02:29
In India, it is unfortunately only the
women who carry water.
women who carry water.
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在印度，很不幸的是，
去采水的只有妇女。
去采水的只有妇女。
02:35
So for all domestic needs,
women have to carry water.
women have to carry water.
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为了各种家用目的，
妇女需要去采水。
妇女需要去采水。
02:40
So that is a pitiable state of affairs.
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这是可悲的。
02:46
Open defecation is rampant.
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公开排便的现象肆虐。
02:48
Seventy percent of India
defecates in the open.
defecates in the open.
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印度70%的排便是在公共场合。
02:53
They sit there out in the open,
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人们坐在公共地方，
02:56
with the wind on their sails,
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风吹着人的后部，
02:58
hiding their faces, exposing their bases,
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人挡着自己的脸，
暴露出自己的关键部分，
暴露出自己的关键部分，
03:02
and sitting there in pristine glory --
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多么纯朴地那样坐着——
03:06
70 percent of India.
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70%的印度。
03:09
And if you look at the world total,
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如果看全世界的情况，
03:12
60 percent of all the crap that is thrown
into the open is by Indians.
into the open is by Indians.
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公开场合的粪便中60%是印度人的。
03:21
A fantastic distinction.
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多好的百分比。
03:23
I don't know if we Indians can be proud
of such a distinction.
of such a distinction.
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我不知道我们印度人
是不是应该为这一殊荣感到自豪。
是不是应该为这一殊荣感到自豪。
03:28
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:30
So we, together with a lot of villages,
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所以我们，联合很多村庄，
03:32
we began to talk about how to really
address this situation of sanitation.
address this situation of sanitation.
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开始讨论如何真正解决这一卫生问题。
03:37
And we came together and formed
a project called MANTRA.
a project called MANTRA.
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我们集合在一起，
开展了这个叫MANTRA的项目，
开展了这个叫MANTRA的项目，
03:42
MANTRA stands for Movement and Action
Network for Transformation of Rural Areas.
Network for Transformation of Rural Areas.
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MANTRA是
“变革农村地区的运动和行动网络”的简称。
“变革农村地区的运动和行动网络”的简称。
03:50
So we are speaking about transformation,
transformation in rural areas.
transformation in rural areas.
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我们专注的是变革，农村地区的变革。
03:57
Villages that agree
to implement this project,
to implement this project,
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同意实施这一项目的村庄，
04:01
they organize a legal society
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会组织一个法律团体，
04:04
where the general body
consists of all members
consists of all members
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其成员是所有村民，
04:08
who elect a group of men and women
who implement the project
who implement the project
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他们选举一些人来实施这一项目，
04:14
and, later on, who look after
the operation and maintenance.
the operation and maintenance.
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并在之后由这些人来负责项目的经营和维持。
04:19
They decide to build a toilet
and a shower room.
and a shower room.
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人们决定建造一所厕所和一间澡堂。
04:24
And from a protected water source,
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从一处受保护的水源中，
04:27
water will be brought to an elevated water
reservoir and piped to all households
reservoir and piped to all households
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水会被引致高层储水池，
然后用管道连接每户人家，
然后用管道连接每户人家，
04:34
through three taps:
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每户有三个水龙头：
04:37
one in the toilet, one in the shower,
one in the kitchen, 24 hours a day.
one in the kitchen, 24 hours a day.
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一个在厕所，一个在浴室，
一个在厨房，24小时供水。
一个在厨房，24小时供水。
04:44
The pity is that our cities,
like New Delhi and Bombay,
like New Delhi and Bombay,
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很可悲的是，我们的城市，
例如新德里和孟买，
例如新德里和孟买，
04:48
do not have a 24-hour water supply.
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没有24小时供水。
04:52
But in these villages, we want to have it.
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但是在这些村落中，我们想要24小时供水。
04:57
There is a distinct difference
in the quality.
in the quality.
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而且水质要有极大的不同。
05:01
Well in India, we have a theory,
which is very much accepted
which is very much accepted
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在印度，我们有一种观念，
05:07
by the government bureaucracy
and all those who matter,
and all those who matter,
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广为政府机构和所有决策者接受，
05:10
that poor people deserve poor solutions
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那就是穷人适用糟糕的条件，
05:15
and absolutely poor people deserve
pathetic solutions.
pathetic solutions.
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特别穷的人适用特别糟糕的条件。
05:22
This, combined with
a Nobel Prize-worthy theory that
a Nobel Prize-worthy theory that
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这一观念，加上最便宜的就是最经济的
05:28
the cheapest is the most economic,
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这一诺贝尔奖级别的理论，
05:30
is the heady cocktail that the poor
are forced to drink.
are forced to drink.
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其组合成的鸡尾酒被强灌于穷人。
05:38
We are fighting against this.
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对此，我们在进行反抗。
05:40
We feel that the poor have been
humiliated for centuries.
humiliated for centuries.
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我们认为穷人几个世纪以来都在受到侮辱。
05:46
And even in sanitation,
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即便是在卫生上，
05:49
they should not be humiliated.
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穷人也不该受到侮辱。
05:51
Sanitation is more about dignity
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卫生不仅是关于人类粪便处理，
05:54
than about human disposal of waste.
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而更多是关于尊严。
05:56
And so you build these toilets
and very often,
and very often,
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修建这些厕所时，
06:01
we have to hear that the toilets are
better than their houses.
better than their houses.
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我们通常听到说厕所比人们的住处还好。
06:07
And you can see that in front are
the attached houses
the attached houses
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你所看到的前面是连接房，
06:11
and the others are the toilets.
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其余是厕所。
06:14
So these people, without a single
exception of a family in a village,
exception of a family in a village,
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这些人，村里没有一户例外，
06:20
decide to build a toilet, a bathing room.
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都决定建造一间厕所，一个浴室。
06:24
And for that, they come together,
collect all the local materials --
collect all the local materials --
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为了这一目的，他们团结一起，
在当地取材——
在当地取材——
06:30
local materials like rubble,
sand, aggregates,
sand, aggregates,
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当地的材料例如瓦砾，沙石，集料，
06:35
usually a government subsidy is available
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而通常政府至少也会给予
06:38
to meet at least part of the cost
of external materials
of external materials
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部分补贴来采购其他材料，例如
06:41
like cement, steel, toilet commode.
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混凝土，钢铁，和便桶。
06:46
And they build a toilet
and a bathing room.
and a bathing room.
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然后人们建造一间厕所和一个浴室。
06:50
Also, all the unskilled laborers, that is
daily wage earners, mostly landless,
daily wage earners, mostly landless,
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还有，所有的非技能劳动者，
这些多数没有田产的每日工，
这些多数没有田产的每日工，
06:56
are given an opportunity to be
trained as masons and plumbers.
trained as masons and plumbers.
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从中可以获得机会来训练成石匠和管道工。
07:04
So while these people are being trained,
others are collecting the materials.
others are collecting the materials.
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这些人受到劳动训练，其他人收集材料。
07:09
And when both are ready,
they build a toilet, a shower room,
they build a toilet, a shower room,
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当他们都准备就绪时，
他们开始建造厕所和浴室，
他们开始建造厕所和浴室，
07:14
and of course also a water tower,
an elevated water reservoir.
an elevated water reservoir.
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当然，还有水塔，高层的储水池。
07:21
We use a system of two leach pits
to treat the waste.
to treat the waste.
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我们用由两个过滤池组成的系统来处理废物。
07:27
From the toilet, the muck comes
into the first leach pit.
into the first leach pit.
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污物从厕所中出来，进入第一个过滤池。
07:31
And when it is full, it is blocked
and it can go to the next.
and it can go to the next.
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装满后，过滤池被封闭，
污物进入第二个过滤池。
污物进入第二个过滤池。
07:36
But we discovered that if you plant
banana trees, papaya trees
banana trees, papaya trees
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我们发现如果在这些过滤池附近
07:41
on the periphery of these leach pits,
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种植香蕉树和木瓜树，
07:44
they grow very well
because they suck up all the nutrients
because they suck up all the nutrients
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他们会生长得非常好，
因为他们能吸取所有养分，
因为他们能吸取所有养分，
07:47
and you get very tasty bananas, papayas.
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然后就能收获非常可口的香蕉和木瓜。
07:53
If any of you come to my place,
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如果你们有人来我的地方，
07:56
I would be happy to share
these bananas and papayas with you.
these bananas and papayas with you.
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我会很乐意跟你们分享这些香蕉和木瓜。
08:01
So there you can see
the completed toilets, the water towers.
the completed toilets, the water towers.
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这里，你能看到完成的厕所和水塔。
08:07
This is in a village where
most of the people are even illiterate.
most of the people are even illiterate.
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要知道，这个村子中，
大多数人甚至都不识字。
大多数人甚至都不识字。
08:13
It is always a 24-hour water supply
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这里永远都是24小时供水，
08:15
because water gets polluted
very often when you store it --
very often when you store it --
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因为如果自己储存水的话，水很容易污染——
08:21
a child dips his or her hand into it,
something falls into it.
something falls into it.
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孩子把手放进去，或者什么别的掉进去。
08:26
So no water is stored. It's always on tap.
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所以，不需要储存水。永远是用自来水。
08:33
This is how an elevated
water reservoir is constructed.
water reservoir is constructed.
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这是正在建造的高层储水池，
08:37
And that is the end product.
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以及完工后的样子。
08:39
Because it has to go high,
and there is some space available,
and there is some space available,
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因为要建得很高，就会有剩余空间，
08:44
two or three rooms are made
under the water tower,
under the water tower,
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水塔下面还会建两三间屋子，
08:47
which are used by the village for
different committee meetings.
different committee meetings.
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这些屋子被村子用于开各种委员会会议。
08:51
We have had clear evidence
of the great impact of this program.
of the great impact of this program.
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关于这一项目的影响，
我们有很明确的证据。
我们有很明确的证据。
08:58
Before we started, there were, as usual,
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我们开始前，如往常一样，
09:02
more than 80 percent of people suffering
from waterborne diseases.
from waterborne diseases.
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村里超过80%的人受水源疾病困扰。
09:07
But after this, we have empirical evidence
that 82 percent, on average,
that 82 percent, on average,
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项目完成之后，我们的实证研究显示，
平均82%，
平均82%，
09:14
among all these villages --
1,200 villages have completed it --
1,200 villages have completed it --
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所有村庄中——
有1200座村庄完成了该项目——
有1200座村庄完成了该项目——
09:18
waterborne diseases
have come down 82 percent.
have come down 82 percent.
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水源疾病下降了82%。
09:23
(Applause)
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（掌声）
09:30
Women usually used to spend,
especially in the summer months,
especially in the summer months,
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妇女通常要花费，尤其是在夏季，
09:35
about six to seven hours
a day carrying water.
a day carrying water.
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每天六到七个小时采水。
09:43
And when they went to carry water,
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而当她们去采水时，
09:46
because, as I said earlier,
it's only women who carry water,
it's only women who carry water,
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因为如我之前所说，采水的只有妇女，
09:52
they used to take their little children,
girl children, also to carry water,
girl children, also to carry water,
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她们经常会带上自己的小孩，
女孩儿，一起去采水，
女孩儿，一起去采水，
09:58
or else to be back at home
to look after the siblings.
to look after the siblings.
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或者是让她们在家照看兄妹。
10:03
So there were less than nine percent
of girl children attending school,
of girl children attending school,
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所以女孩子上学的不到9%，
10:07
even if there was a school.
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如果有学校的话。
10:10
And boys, about 30 percent.
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男孩呢，大约30%。
10:13
But girls, it has gone to about 90 percent
and boys, almost to 100 percent.
and boys, almost to 100 percent.
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但现在，女孩，已经到了差不多90%，
而男孩大约是100%。
而男孩大约是100%。
10:20
(Applause)
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（掌声）
10:24
The most vulnerable section in a village
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村子里生计最没有保障的是
10:28
are the landless laborers who are
the daily wage-earners.
the daily wage-earners.
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没有田产的每日工。
10:32
Because they have gone
through this training
through this training
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现在他们受过这种训练，
10:34
to be masons and plumbers and bar benders,
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成为石匠，管道工，会弯钢筋，
10:38
now their ability to earn has
increased 300 to 400 percent.
increased 300 to 400 percent.
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现在他们挣钱的能力提高了300%到400%。
10:46
So this is a democracy in action
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这是民主的行动，
10:49
because there is a general body,
a governing board, the committee.
a governing board, the committee.
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因为有成员，理事会，委员会。
10:53
People are questioning,
people are governing themselves,
people are governing themselves,
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人们在提出问题，人们在自我统治，
10:56
people are learning to manage
their own affairs,
their own affairs,
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人们在学习管理自己的事务，
10:59
they are taking their own futures
into their hands.
into their hands.
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他们正在将自己的未来放入自己掌中。
11:02
And that is democracy at
the grassroots level in action.
the grassroots level in action.
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这是草根层面的民主行动。
11:10
More than 1,200 villages
have so far done this.
have so far done this.
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目前，超过1200座村庄完成了这一项目。
11:17
It benefits over 400,000 people
and it's still going on.
and it's still going on.
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受益者超过40万人，而且还在继续。
11:22
And I hope it continues to move ahead.
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我希望该项目能继续前进。
11:29
For India and such developing countries,
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对于印度和类似的发展中国家而言，
11:34
armies and armaments,
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军队和武器，
11:39
software companies and spaceships
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软件公司和太空飞船，
11:48
may not be as important
as taps and toilets.
as taps and toilets.
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可能没有自来水和厕所重要。
11:54
Thank you. Thank you very much.
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谢谢。非常感谢。
11:57
(Applause)
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（掌声）
12:01
Thank you.
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谢谢。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Joe Madiath - Social entrepreneurJoe Madiath brings Indian villagers together around water and sanitation projects.
Why you should listen
When he was 12, Joe Madiath unionized young workers to fight for better work conditions. They were employed by... his own father. He was therefore sent away to a boarding school. After his studies, travels across India, and participating in relief work afer a devastating cyclone, in 1979 he founded Gram Vikas. The name translates to "village development" in both Hindi and Oriya, the language of the state of Orissa, where the organization is primarily active.
The bulk of Gram Vikas' efforts are on water and sanitation. The organization's approach is based on partnership with villagers and gender equity. In order to benefit from Gram Vikas' support to install water and sanitation systems, the entire village community needs to commit to participate in the planning, construction and maintenance, and all villagers, regardless of social, economic or caste status, will have access to the same facilities. This requirement of 100 percent participation is difficult, Madiath acknowledges, but it leads to socially equitable and long-term solutions. Gram Vikas has already reached over 1,200 communities and over 400,000 people.
Joe Madiath | Speaker | TED.com