ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ellen Jorgensen - Biologist, community science advocate
Ellen Jorgensen is at the leading edge of the do-it-yourself biotechnology movement, bringing scientific exploration and understanding to the public.

Why you should listen

In 2009, after many years of working as a molecular biologist in the biotech industry, together with TED Fellow Oliver Medvedik, Jorgensen founded Genspace, a nonprofit community laboratory dedicated to promoting citizen science and access to biotechnology. Despite criticism that bioresearch should be left to the experts, the Brooklyn-based lab continues to thrive, providing educational outreach, cultural events and a platform for science innovation at the grassroots level. At the lab, amateur and professional scientists conduct award-winning research on projects as diverse as identifying microbes that live in Earth's atmosphere and (Jorgensen's own pet project) DNA-barcoding plants, to distinguish between species that look alike but may not be closely related evolutionarily. Fast Company magazine named Genspace one of the world's "Top 10 innovative companies in education."

More profile about the speaker
Ellen Jorgensen | Speaker | TED.com
TEDSummit

Ellen Jorgensen: What you need to know about CRISPR

Ellen Jorgensen: 关于CRISPR你必须知道的东西

Filmed:
2,076,993 views

我们应该复活猛犸象吗?是否应该改造人类胚胎?或是将我们认为有害的物种彻底消灭?染色体改造技术CRISPR将这些问题变得只关乎法律--但它是怎样运行的呢?科学家,社区实验室倡导者Ellen Jorgensen将介绍关于CRISPR的谜团和真相。秉着纯粹传播科学的目的,她将向普罗大众揭开CRISPR神秘的面纱。
- Biologist, community science advocate
Ellen Jorgensen is at the leading edge of the do-it-yourself biotechnology movement, bringing scientific exploration and understanding to the public. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
So, has everybody每个人 heard听说 of CRISPRCRISPR?
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有人听说过 CRISPR 吗
00:15
I would be shocked吃惊 if you hadn't有没有.
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大家应该都知道
00:18
This is a technology技术 --
it's for genome基因组 editing编辑 --
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这是一种人为改变染色体的技术
00:21
and it's so versatile多才多艺 and so controversial争论的
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这种技术如此全能却又十分引人争议
00:24
that it's sparking火花 all sorts排序
of really interesting有趣 conversations对话.
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以至于各种有趣的争论应运而生
00:28
Should we bring带来 back the woolly长毛 mammoth长毛象?
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我们要猛犸象复活吗?
00:31
Should we edit编辑 a human人的 embryo?
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我们应该改造人类胚胎吗?
00:34
And my personal个人 favorite喜爱:
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我最喜欢的一个问题是
00:36
How can we justify辩解
wiping out an entire整个 species种类
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我们能够接受
00:40
that we consider考虑 harmful有害 to humans人类
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用这种技术
00:43
off the face面对 of the Earth地球,
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将一个人类认为有害的物种
00:44
using运用 this technology技术?
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从地球上完全消灭吗?
00:47
This type类型 of science科学
is moving移动 much faster更快
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这种科技比控制它本身的
常规技术
00:50
than the regulatory监管 mechanisms机制
that govern治理 it.
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发展的还要快
00:53
And so, for the past过去 six years年份,
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在过去六年里
00:55
I've made制作 it my personal个人 mission任务
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我致力于
00:57
to make sure that as many许多 people
as possible可能 understand理解
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让更多人了解这种技术
01:00
these types类型 of technologies技术
and their implications启示.
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以及它的意义何在
01:04
Now, CRISPRCRISPR has been the subject学科
of a huge巨大 media媒体 hype炒作,
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现在,CRISPR已经成了媒体炒作的焦点
01:09
and the words that are used most often经常
are "easy简单" and "cheap低廉."
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最普遍的用于描述它的词
是“容易” 和“廉价”
01:14
So what I want to do is drill钻头 down
a little bit deeper更深
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我想将这个话题深入下去
01:17
and look into some of the myths神话
and the realities现实 around CRISPRCRISPR.
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并探讨与之有关的谜团
以及现实状况
01:22
If you're trying to CRISPRCRISPR a genome基因组,
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如果 你想在一条染色体
上做CRISPR
01:25
the first thing that you have to do
is damage损伤 the DNA脱氧核糖核酸.
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你得首先破环DNA分子
01:29
The damage损伤 comes in the form形成
of a double-strand双链 break打破
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这种破坏需要从双螺旋结构上
01:32
through通过 the double helix螺旋.
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斩断双链结构
01:33
And then the cellular细胞的 repair修理
processes流程 kick in,
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随后细胞的修复机制开始插手
01:37
and then we convince说服
those repair修理 processes流程
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这是我们就可以让这些修复系统
01:39
to make the edit编辑 that we want,
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来改造我们想要的基因了
01:42
and not a natural自然 edit编辑.
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这不是自然的改造
01:43
That's how it works作品.
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这就是这种技术的原理
01:45
It's a two-part两部分 system系统.
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这是一个两步走的技术
01:47
You've got a CasCAS9 protein蛋白
and something called a guide指南 RNARNA.
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首先要有一个Cas9蛋白质
还有一种向导RNA
01:51
I like to think of it as a guided引导 missile导弹.
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可以将其比作定向导弹
01:53
So the CasCAS9 --
I love to anthropomorphize人格化 --
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于是Cas9蛋白质
-我喜欢将其拟人化
01:56
so the CasCAS9 is kind of this Pac-Man吃豆人 thing
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Cas9 就像是吃豆人中的小圆脸
01:59
that wants to chew DNA脱氧核糖核酸,
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迫不及待地想要吃掉 DNA
02:01
and the guide指南 RNARNA is the leash皮带
that's keeping保持 it out of the genome基因组
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向导 RNA 就像是
控制住它不进入染色体的皮带
02:05
until直到 it finds认定 the exact精确 spot
where it matches火柴.
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直到它找到了符合的位置
02:08
And the combination组合 of those two
is called CRISPRCRISPR.
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这两种分子的结合体就叫做 CRISPR
02:11
It's a system系统 that we stole偷了
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这是一种我们从
02:13
from an ancient, ancient
bacterial细菌 immune免疫的 system系统.
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古老的细菌结构中
发现的方法
02:17
The part部分 that's amazing惊人 about it
is that the guide指南 RNARNA,
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最令人惊奇的部分是 RNA
02:22
only 20 letters of it,
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虽只有20个有效信息
02:23
are what target目标 the system系统.
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但却是整个结构的定位部分
02:26
This is really easy简单 to design设计,
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CRISPR 设计起来非常容易
02:28
and it's really cheap低廉 to buy购买.
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并且价格低廉
02:30
So that's the part部分
that is modular模块化 in the system系统;
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这种手法已经被模块化
02:35
everything else其他 stays入住 the same相同.
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并且一成不变
02:37
This makes品牌 it a remarkably异常 easy简单
and powerful强大 system系统 to use.
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因此这种技术用起来十分便捷
并且有效
02:42
The guide指南 RNARNA and the CasCAS9
protein蛋白 complex复杂 together一起
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向导 RNA 和 Cas9 蛋白质
组成一个整体
02:46
go bouncing蹦蹦 along沿 the genome基因组,
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在染色体上来回穿梭
02:48
and when they find a spot
where the guide指南 RNARNA matches火柴,
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当它们发现一个与
向导 RNA 吻合的部位时
02:51
then it inserts插页 between之间 the two strands
of the double helix螺旋,
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就会嵌入双螺旋结构
02:54
it rips裂口 them apart距离,
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将其撕裂
02:56
that triggers触发器 the CasCAS9 protein蛋白 to cut,
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导致 Cas9 蛋白质开始切割工作
02:59
and all of a sudden突然,
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于是突然之间
03:01
you've got a cell细胞 that's in total panic恐慌
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你就让一个细胞处在了极大的恐慌之中
03:03
because now it's got a piece
of DNA脱氧核糖核酸 that's broken破碎.
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因为它的一条 DNA 收到了破坏
03:07
What does it do?
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这时它该怎么办呢-
03:08
It calls电话 its first responders反应.
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呼叫现场急救员
03:10
There are two major重大的 repair修理 pathways途径.
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细胞有着两种主要的修复机制
03:13
The first just takes the DNA脱氧核糖核酸
and shoves塞到 the two pieces back together一起.
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第一种是直接将断掉的 DNA 接上
03:18
This isn't a very efficient高效 system系统,
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这种方法不是最有效的
03:20
because what happens发生 is
sometimes有时 a base基础 drops滴剂 out
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由于有时会多一个链环
03:23
or a base基础 is added添加.
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有时又会少一个
03:25
It's an OK way to maybe, like,
knock out a gene基因,
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这种方法只能...
算撞出一个基因来
03:28
but it's not the way that we really want
to do genome基因组 editing编辑.
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但不是我们通常想要的
基因改造方式
03:32
The second第二 repair修理 pathway
is a lot more interesting有趣.
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第二种修复机制更为有趣
03:35
In this repair修理 pathway,
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在这种机制中
03:36
it takes a homologous同源 piece of DNA脱氧核糖核酸.
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细胞会寻找一条相同的 DNA
03:39
And now mind心神 you, in a diploid二倍体
organism生物 like people,
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在有着双染色体的生物-
比如说人类
03:42
we've我们已经 got one copy复制 of our genome基因组
from our mom妈妈 and one from our dad,
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我们得到了我们父母
各自的一组染色体
03:46
so if one gets得到 damaged破损,
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如果一条 DNA 受损
03:47
it can use the other
chromosome染色体 to repair修理 it.
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细胞可以
用另外一条来修复它
03:50
So that's where this comes from.
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这就是这种技术的原理
03:52
The repair修理 is made制作,
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修复成功之后
03:54
and now the genome基因组 is safe安全 again.
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染色体又重获安全
03:56
The way that we can hijack劫持 this
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我们将其调包的方法
03:58
is we can feed饲料 it a false piece of DNA脱氧核糖核酸,
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是用一条新的 DNA--
04:02
a piece that has homology同源性 on both ends结束
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在两端上与原来相同
04:04
but is different不同 in the middle中间.
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中间却不同
--来修复它
04:06
So now, you can put
whatever随你 you want in the center中央
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于是你可以随心所欲地
将你想要的中间部分安装上去
04:08
and the cell细胞 gets得到 fooled上当.
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细胞本身却毫无察觉
04:10
So you can change更改 a letter,
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你可以改变基因中的一条信息
04:12
you can take letters out,
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也可以删除它
04:13
but most importantly重要的,
you can stuff东东 new DNA脱氧核糖核酸 in,
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但最为重要的是
你可以像特洛伊木马一样
04:16
kind of like a Trojan木马 horse.
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将一条全新的 DNA 嵌入
04:19
CRISPRCRISPR is going to be amazing惊人,
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CRISPR 的作用出人预料
04:21
in terms条款 of the number of different不同
scientific科学 advances进步
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它能推动许多
04:24
that it's going to catalyze催化.
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不同领域的科技发展
04:26
The thing that's special特别 about it
is this modular模块化 targeting针对 system系统.
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它的特殊之处在于这个
攻击系统模块
04:29
I mean, we've我们已经 been shoving DNA脱氧核糖核酸
into organisms生物 for years年份, right?
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我们多年来一直尝试着
将 DNA 嵌入生物体中
04:33
But because of the modular模块化
targeting针对 system系统,
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但由于这种模块攻击系统
04:35
we can actually其实 put it
exactly究竟 where we want it.
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我们能将它放在我们想要的地方
04:39
The thing is that there's
a lot of talk about it being存在 cheap低廉
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问题是现在有很多关于
它的廉价性
04:45
and it being存在 easy简单.
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和便捷性的话题
04:46
And I run a community社区 lab实验室.
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我有着一所社区实验室
04:50
I'm starting开始 to get emails电子邮件 from people
that say stuff东东 like,
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并且开始收到人们的来信--
04:53
"Hey, can I come to your open打开 night
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“我能在开放夜来你那吗?
04:56
and, like, maybe use CRISPRCRISPR
and engineer工程师 my genome基因组?"
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借我用用 CRISPR 编辑
一下自己的基因行吗?”
04:59
(Laugher笑声)
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(笑声)
05:01
Like, seriously认真地.
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讲真的
05:03
I'm, "No, you can't."
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我说:“不,你不行“
05:05
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
05:06
"But I've heard听说 it's cheap低廉.
I've heard听说 it's easy简单."
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“但我听说那很便宜,很简单啊”
05:08
We're going to explore探索 that a little bit.
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我们谈谈这个吧
05:10
So, how cheap低廉 is it?
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究竟有多便宜?
05:12
Yeah, it is cheap低廉 in comparison对照.
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相对来说确实便宜
05:15
It's going to take the cost成本 of the average平均
materials物料 for an experiment实验
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它能将一个实验所需材料
通常的价格
05:19
from thousands数千 of dollars美元
to hundreds数以百计 of dollars美元,
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从几千美元降至几百美元
05:21
and it cuts削减 the time a lot, too.
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还能节约时间
05:23
It can cut it from weeks to days.
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几周的工作几天就能完成
05:26
That's great.
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这很好
05:27
You still need a professional专业的 lab实验室
to do the work in;
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但你仍需要专业的实验室来做
05:30
you're not going to do anything meaningful富有意义的
outside of a professional专业的 lab实验室.
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没有实验室
是不可能完成这项技术的
05:34
I mean, don't listen to anyone任何人 who says
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别相信那些说
05:36
you can do this sort分类 of stuff东东
on your kitchen厨房 table.
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你可以在自家厨房里做实验的人
05:39
It's really not easy简单
to do this kind of work.
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这项技术真的不简单
05:43
Not to mention提到,
there's a patent专利 battle战斗 going on,
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更别说有一场如火如荼的
专利战打的正酣
05:46
so even if you do invent发明 something,
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即使发明者创造出了
这样的奇思妙想
05:48
the Broad广阔 Institute研究所 and UCUC Berkeley伯克利
are in this incredible难以置信 patent专利 battle战斗.
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布罗德研究所和 UC 伯克利也
在为专利权而争斗不休
05:54
It's really fascinating迷人
to watch it happen发生,
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隔岸观火很有趣
05:57
because they're accusing指责 each other
of fraudulent骗人的 claims索赔
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因为他们都在不断控诉对方,
称其发布诬告性言论
06:00
and then they've他们已经 got people saying,
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他们中的有人常常说
06:02
"Oh, well, I signed
my notebook笔记本 here or there."
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“我在我的笔记本上到处都记了笔记”
06:05
This isn't going to be settled安定 for years年份.
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这件事好几年都没完
06:07
And when it is,
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即使真的解决了
06:08
you can bet赌注 you're going to pay工资 someone有人
a really hefty沉重 licensing许可 fee费用
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到那时你就得为使用这项技术
06:11
in order订购 to use this stuff东东.
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支付高昂的费用
06:13
So, is it really cheap低廉?
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所以它真的便宜吗?
06:15
Well, it's cheap低廉 if you're doing
basic基本 research研究 and you've got a lab实验室.
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如果你有自己的实验室,并且
在做基础学科实验的话——是的
06:21
How about easy简单?
Let's look at that claim要求.
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容易吗?
现在我们来谈谈这个
06:24
The devil魔鬼 is always in the details细节.
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魔鬼总藏在深处
06:27
We don't really know
that much about cells细胞.
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我们仍然不十分了解细胞
06:31
They're still kind of black黑色 boxes盒子.
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他们就像是一个黑匣子
06:32
For example, we don't know
why some guide指南 RNAs的RNA work really well
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比如说,我们不知道为什么有一些RNA
十分有效
06:37
and some guide指南 RNAs的RNA don't.
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有一些却不是这样
06:39
We don't know why some cells细胞
want to do one repair修理 pathway
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我们也不知道为什么
一些细胞采用一种修复机制
06:43
and some cells细胞 would rather do the other.
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另一些采用另外一种
06:46
And besides除了 that,
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除了这些以外
06:47
there's the whole整个 problem问题
of getting得到 the system系统 into the cell细胞
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在一开始
06:50
in the first place地点.
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将这个系统植入细胞时
同样面临着问题
06:51
In a petri培养皿 dish, that's not that hard,
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在培养皿中,这不是很难
06:53
but if you're trying to do it
on a whole整个 organism生物,
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可是如果是整个生物体
06:56
it gets得到 really tricky狡猾.
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那就很麻烦了
06:58
It's OK if you use something
like blood血液 or bone marrow骨髓 --
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采用血液或是骨髓是可行的
07:01
those are the targets目标
of a lot of research研究 now.
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它们也是现在的研究重点
07:03
There was a great story故事
of some little girl女孩
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有一个关于一位女孩
奇迹的故事
07:05
who they saved保存 from leukemia白血病
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她患了白血病
07:07
by taking服用 the blood血液 out, editing编辑 it,
and putting it back
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最后通过将血取出,人为将其改造后
放回人体
07:10
with a precursor先导 of CRISPRCRISPR.
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最终痊愈——用的是CRISPR的前期技术
07:12
And this is a line线 of research研究
that people are going to do.
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这是一种人们希望从事的研究
07:15
But right now, if you want to get
into the whole整个 body身体,
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但是如果你想针对整个人体
07:18
you're probably大概 going
to have to use a virus病毒.
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可能就要用到病毒了
07:20
So you take the virus病毒,
you put the CRISPRCRISPR into it,
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采集病毒以后,
将 CRISPR 放进去
07:22
you let the virus病毒 infect感染 the cell细胞.
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你需要让病毒感染细胞
07:24
But now you've got this virus病毒 in there,
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但只要你将病毒注入细胞内部
07:26
and we don't know what the long-term长期
effects效果 of that are.
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就可能出现长期的副作用
07:29
Plus, CRISPRCRISPR has some off-target不中 effects效果,
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而且 CRISPR 还有一些
伤及无辜的攻击行为
07:31
a very small percentage百分比,
but they're still there.
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只占很小一部分——
但总之存在
07:34
What's going to happen发生
over time with that?
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一段时间过后又会发生什么呢?
07:38
These are not trivial不重要的 questions问题,
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这不是小事
07:40
and there are scientists科学家们
that are trying to solve解决 them,
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有科学家一直想要解决这些问题
07:42
and they will eventually终于,
hopefully希望, be solved解决了.
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而且它们有可能被解决
07:45
But it ain't plug-and-play即插即用,
not by a long shot射击.
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但研究需要时间
07:48
So: Is it really easy简单?
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这种方法真的容易吗?
07:51
Well, if you spend a few少数 years年份
working加工 it out in your particular特定 system系统,
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在经过几年的深入研究之后
07:55
yes, it is.
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它才真正变得容易
07:57
Now the other thing is,
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还有一个问题是
07:59
we don't really know that much about how
to make a particular特定 thing happen发生
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我们不知道怎样通过改变染色体中的
某个部位
08:05
by changing改变 particular特定 spots斑点
in the genome基因组.
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来到达我们想要的目的
08:09
We're a long way away from figuring盘算 out
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我们现在还无法获知
08:11
how to give a pig wings翅膀, for example.
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怎样使一只猪长出翅膀
08:14
Or even an extra额外 leg -- I'd settle解决
for an extra额外 leg.
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或是多长一条腿
08:17
That would be kind of cool, right?
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那会十分有趣,不是吗
08:18
But what is happening事件
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但确切的是
08:20
is that CRISPRCRISPR is being存在 used
by thousands数千 and thousands数千 of scientists科学家们
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CRISPR 正被成千上万的科学家利用
08:24
to do really, really important重要 work,
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去做十分重要的工作
08:27
like making制造 better models楷模
of diseases疾病 in animals动物, for example,
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例如建造更好的动物疾病模型
08:32
or for taking服用 pathways途径
that produce生产 valuable有价值 chemicals化学制品
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或是找到经济的化学物质
生产方法
08:37
and getting得到 them into industrial产业
production生产 and fermentation发酵 vats大桶,
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用它们进行工业生产和发酵
08:42
or even doing really basic基本 research研究
on what genes基因 do.
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甚至是有关基因功能的基本研究
08:46
This is the story故事 of CRISPRCRISPR
we should be telling告诉,
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这才是 CRISPR 真正的用处
08:48
and I don't like it
that the flashier华丽的 aspects方面 of it
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我不赞同让它的瑕疵
08:52
are drowning溺死 all of this out.
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掩盖了它真正的光芒
08:54
Lots of scientists科学家们 did a lot of work
to make CRISPRCRISPR happen发生,
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不计其数的科学家
呕心沥血造就了 CRISPR
08:58
and what's interesting有趣 to me
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我认为十分明智的是
09:00
is that these scientists科学家们
are being存在 supported支持的 by our society社会.
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这些科学家受到了社会的广泛支持
09:05
Think about it.
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想一想
09:06
We've我们已经 got an infrastructure基础设施 that allows允许
a certain某些 percentage百分比 of people
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我们有着能够让一小部分人
在里面倾其一生
09:10
to spend all their time doing research研究.
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从事科学研究的机构
09:14
That makes品牌 us all the inventors发明家 of CRISPRCRISPR,
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这让我们所有人
成为了 CRISPR 的创造者
09:18
and I would say that makes品牌 us all
the shepherds牧羊人 of CRISPRCRISPR.
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让我们成为 CRISPR
的掌控者
09:23
We all have a responsibility责任.
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我们需要负起责任来
09:25
So I would urge敦促 you to really learn学习
about these types类型 of technologies技术,
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所以我们需要
重视这方面的技术
09:30
because, really, only in that way
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2019
因为,只有这样
09:32
are we going to be able能够 to guide指南
the development发展 of these technologies技术,
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我们才能掌控这些技术的发展
09:36
the use of these technologies技术
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和它们的应用
09:38
and make sure that, in the end结束,
it's a positive outcome结果 --
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然后确保到最后
我们能得到正面的结果
09:43
for both the planet行星 and for us.
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不管是对这颗星球
还是我们自己
09:46
Thanks谢谢.
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谢谢
09:47
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by: Elvis Liu
Translated by Elvis Liu
Reviewed by Lucas Liu

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ellen Jorgensen - Biologist, community science advocate
Ellen Jorgensen is at the leading edge of the do-it-yourself biotechnology movement, bringing scientific exploration and understanding to the public.

Why you should listen

In 2009, after many years of working as a molecular biologist in the biotech industry, together with TED Fellow Oliver Medvedik, Jorgensen founded Genspace, a nonprofit community laboratory dedicated to promoting citizen science and access to biotechnology. Despite criticism that bioresearch should be left to the experts, the Brooklyn-based lab continues to thrive, providing educational outreach, cultural events and a platform for science innovation at the grassroots level. At the lab, amateur and professional scientists conduct award-winning research on projects as diverse as identifying microbes that live in Earth's atmosphere and (Jorgensen's own pet project) DNA-barcoding plants, to distinguish between species that look alike but may not be closely related evolutionarily. Fast Company magazine named Genspace one of the world's "Top 10 innovative companies in education."

More profile about the speaker
Ellen Jorgensen | Speaker | TED.com

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