TEDxDanubia
Margaret Heffernan: The dangers of willful blindness
瑪格麗特赫弗南: “刻意無視”的危險
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Readability: 3.7
1,773,982 views
蓋拉貝尼菲爾德一直安於本分 -- 直到她發現了自己家鄉的一個可怕秘密：本地的死亡率比美國其他地方高出80倍。但是當她把這些告訴人們時，她得知了另一個更震驚的事實：人們不願意知道真相。在這個既是歷史教訓的總結也是號召人們採取行動的演講中，瑪格麗特弗南說明了“刻意無視”的危險，也讚揚了像貝尼菲爾德那樣敢於指出問題的普通人。（拍攝於TEDxDanubia）
Margaret Heffernan - Management thinker
The former CEO of five businesses, Margaret Heffernan explores the all-too-human thought patterns -- like conflict avoidance and selective blindness -- that lead organizations and managers astray. Full bio
The former CEO of five businesses, Margaret Heffernan explores the all-too-human thought patterns -- like conflict avoidance and selective blindness -- that lead organizations and managers astray. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
In the northwest corner of the United States,
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在美國的東北角
00:16
right up near the Canadian border,
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緊挨著加拿大邊境
00:19
there's a little town called Libby, Montana,
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有一個在蒙大拿州的小鎮叫Libby
00:23
and it's surrounded by pine trees and lakes
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四周被松樹和湖泊所環繞
00:28
and just amazing wildlife
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還有令人讚歎不已的野生動物
00:32
and these enormous trees that scream up into the sky.
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那些高大的樹木直達蒼穹
00:38
And in there is a little town called Libby,
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在那裏有一個叫Libby的小鎮
00:41
which I visited, which feels kind of lonely,
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我去過那裏，覺得那裏好像有幾分孤單
00:45
a little isolated.
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也有一點與世隔絕
00:48
And in Libby, Montana, there's a rather unusual woman
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在Libby有一位頗不尋常的女士
00:52
named Gayla Benefield.
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她叫蓋拉貝尼菲爾德
00:54
She always felt a little bit of an outsider,
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儘管她在那兒生活了幾乎一輩子
00:56
although she's been there almost all her life,
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她總感覺自己是一名異鄉客
00:58
a woman of Russian extraction.
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她是一個有俄國血統的女人
01:01
She told me when she went to school,
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在去學校的路上她對我說
01:03
she was the only girl who ever chose
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她是唯一一個選擇
01:04
to do mechanical drawing.
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念機械製圖的女孩
01:08
Later in life, she got a job going house to house
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那之後她找到一份工作
01:12
reading utility meters -- gas meters, electricity meters.
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一家一戶地讀家用碼錶--天然氣表，電錶
01:16
And she was doing the work in the middle of the day,
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並且她每天在中午開始她的工作
01:19
and one thing particularly caught her notice, which was,
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有一件事特別引起她的注意
01:22
in the middle of the day she met a lot of men
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那就是在正中午的時候
她碰見了許多待在家裏的男人
她碰見了許多待在家裏的男人
01:26
who were at home, middle aged, late middle aged,
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有中壯年男性，也有中老年男性
01:31
and a lot of them seemed to be on oxygen tanks.
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他們之中似乎許多人是插著氧氣管的
01:36
It struck her as strange.
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為此她感到十分詫異
01:39
Then, a few years later, her father died at the age of 59,
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幾年後她的爸爸在59歲時
01:42
five days before he was due to receive his pension.
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在他應該領退休金
安度晚年的五天前去世了
安度晚年的五天前去世了
01:46
He'd been a miner.
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他當了一輩子的礦工
01:47
She thought he must just have been worn out by the work.
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她以為是工作強度壓垮了她的爸爸
01:53
But then a few years later, her mother died,
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但是幾年之後她的媽媽也去世了
01:57
and that seemed stranger still,
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這更是令人感到奇怪
02:00
because her mother came from a long line of people
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因為她的媽媽家族裡有很多人
02:02
who just seemed to live forever.
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都活到很大的歲數
02:06
In fact, Gayla's uncle is still alive to this day,
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事實上蓋拉的叔叔至今仍健在
02:10
and learning how to waltz.
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他還去學跳華爾滋
02:12
It didn't make sense that Gayla's mother
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所以蓋拉的媽媽沒道理
02:16
should die so young.
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這麼年輕就過世
02:18
It was an anomaly, and she kept puzzling over anomalies.
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這是個異常的現象
她一直對這些異常現象百思不解
她一直對這些異常現象百思不解
02:22
And as she did, other ones came to mind.
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有一天一個想法啓發了她
02:24
She remembered, for example,
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她記得，舉個例子
02:26
when her mother had broken a leg and went into the hospital,
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當她媽媽腿部骨折去醫院就診
02:29
and she had a lot of x-rays,
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她拍了好多X光片
02:31
and two of them were leg x-rays, which made sense,
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其中兩次是腿部X光
這很合理
這很合理
02:34
but six of them were chest x-rays, which didn't.
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但是另外六次是胸部X光
這就讓人不明白了
這就讓人不明白了
02:39
She puzzled and puzzled over every piece
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她對自己和她父母生活中的
02:42
of her life and her parents' life,
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每一個細節都仔細思索
02:44
trying to understand what she was seeing.
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想嘗試理解眼前發生的事情
02:48
She thought about her town.
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她想到居住的小鎮
02:50
The town had a vermiculite mine in it.
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在那兒有一個蛭石礦
02:53
Vermiculite was used for soil conditioners,
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蛭石被當做土壤改良劑
02:56
to make plants grow faster and better.
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它能幫助植物長得更快更好
02:59
Vermiculite was used to insulate lofts,
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蛭石也被當做隔熱物質
03:02
huge amounts of it put under the roof
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在漫長的蒙大拿冬季
它被大量地放置在屋頂下
它被大量地放置在屋頂下
03:05
to keep houses warm during the long Montana winters.
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具有保暖的作用
03:08
Vermiculite was in the playground.
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它也用在戶外場地上
03:11
It was in the football ground.
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用在足球場
03:12
It was in the skating rink.
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用在溜冰場上
03:15
What she didn't learn until she started working this problem
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當她開始著手解決這個問題時
03:18
is vermiculite is a very toxic form of asbestos.
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她發現蛭石是一種毒性很強的石棉
03:26
When she figured out the puzzle,
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當她找出了疑問的根源
03:27
she started telling everyone she could
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她開始告訴她所遇見的每一個人
03:30
what had happened, what had been done to her parents
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過去已經發生了什麽
包括發生她父母身上的經歷
包括發生她父母身上的經歷
03:33
and to the people that she saw on oxygen tanks
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那些她看見在家插氧氣管的人
03:36
at home in the afternoons.
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又遭遇了什麽事情
03:39
But she was really amazed.
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但是令她感到不可思議的是
03:41
She thought, when everybody knows, they'll want to do something,
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她認為當人們知道真相後
他們會嘗試去改變
他們會嘗試去改變
03:43
but actually nobody wanted to know.
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但其實沒有人願意知道真相
03:46
In fact, she became so annoying
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事實上，她因為堅持把真相告訴
03:48
as she kept insisting on telling this story
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她的鄰居，朋友和社區裏的人
03:50
to her neighbors, to her friends, to other people in the community,
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而使得自己遭到別人的厭煩
03:53
that eventually a bunch of them got together
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最後有一群人聚集在一起
做了一張保險桿標語貼紙
做了一張保險桿標語貼紙
03:55
and they made a bumper sticker,
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並且自豪地貼在汽車上
03:57
which they proudly displayed on their cars, which said,
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貼紙上寫著
04:00
"Yes, I'm from Libby, Montana,
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“沒錯，我來自蒙大拿州的Libby鎮
04:03
and no, I don't have asbestosis."
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但是我沒有得石棉沉滯症。”
04:08
But Gayla didn't stop. She kept doing research.
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但是蓋拉沒有放棄
她繼續著她的研究
她繼續著她的研究
04:12
The advent of the Internet definitely helped her.
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網路的出現幫了她很大一個忙
04:15
She talked to anybody she could.
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她告訴所有人她知道的東西
04:17
She argued and argued, and finally she struck lucky
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她一直爭辯著
04:20
when a researcher came through town
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最後當一位研究當地礦井歷史學者
經過了這個小鎮時
經過了這個小鎮時
04:22
studying the history of mines in the area,
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她巧遇了這位學者
04:25
and she told him her story, and at first, of course,
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她把這些事情告訴了學者
04:28
like everyone, he didn't believe her,
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像大家一樣，學者一開始並不相信她
04:30
but he went back to Seattle and he did his own research
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但是他回到西雅圖自己做了調查後
04:32
and he realized that she was right.
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他發現蓋拉是對的
04:37
So now she had an ally.
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現在她有了一名支持者
04:41
Nevertheless, people still didn't want to know.
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儘管如此，人們仍舊不願意相信
04:44
They said things like, "Well, if it were really dangerous,
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他們經常這樣說
“如果真的那麼危險的話
“如果真的那麼危險的話
04:47
someone would have told us."
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肯定會有人告訴我們的。"
04:50
"If that's really why everyone was dying,
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“如果那真是人們死因的元兇，
04:53
the doctors would have told us."
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醫生會告訴我們的。”
04:58
Some of the guys used to very heavy jobs said,
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一些過去常常做繁重工作的人說，
05:01
"I don't want to be a victim.
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’我不想成為受害者
05:03
I can't possibly be a victim, and anyway,
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我也沒有可能成為受害者
05:05
every industry has its accidents."
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再說每一個行業都會有意外發生。"
05:12
But still Gayla went on, and finally she succeeded
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但是蓋拉仍舊堅持著
05:16
in getting a federal agency to come to town
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最後她成功請到了聯邦機構來小鎮
05:18
and to screen the inhabitants of the town --
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檢查小鎮的居民 --共1萬5千人--
05:23
15,000 people -- and what they discovered
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他們發現了
05:27
was that the town had a mortality rate
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當地居民的死亡率
05:31
80 times higher than anywhere in the United States.
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比美國任何地方高出了80倍
05:37
That was in 2002, and even at that moment,
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那時是2002年
甚至在那個時刻
甚至在那個時刻
05:41
no one raised their hand to say, "Gayla,
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也沒有人舉起手說，"蓋拉
05:45
look in the playground where your grandchildren are playing.
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看看你的子孫玩耍的戶外場地
05:49
It's lined with vermiculite."
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那裡鋪滿了蛭石啊。”
05:54
This wasn't ignorance.
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那並不是忽視
05:57
It was willful blindness.
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那是“刻意無視”
05:59
Willful blindness is a legal concept which means,
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“刻意無視”是一個法律概念
06:03
if there's information that you could know and you should know
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如果是一個你應該知道
而且能夠得知的資訊
而且能夠得知的資訊
06:06
but you somehow manage not to know,
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但是你以某種方式試圖不去獲知
06:09
the law deems that you're willfully blind.
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那麼法律上認為你是“刻意無視”
06:12
You have chosen not to know.
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你只是選擇了不去獲知
06:16
There's a lot of willful blindness around these days.
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現今周圍有許多“刻意無視”的現象
06:20
You can see willful blindness in banks,
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在銀行中可以發現“刻意無視”的情況
06:23
when thousands of people sold mortgages to people
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當成千上萬的人把房貸貸給
06:26
who couldn't afford them.
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那些根本負擔不起的人們
06:28
You could see them in banks
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在銀行你還可以看見
06:30
when interest rates were manipulated
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當利率被操縱
06:32
and everyone around knew what was going on,
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而且人們都知道發生了什麽事情
06:34
but everyone studiously ignored it.
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但是人們故意忽視了它
06:37
You can see willful blindness in the Catholic Church,
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刻意無視的情況也發生在天主教堂裏
06:41
where decades of child abuse went ignored.
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幾十年孩子被虐待的狀況被漠視
06:45
You could see willful blindness
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刻意無視的現象
06:48
in the run-up to the Iraq War.
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也發生在伊拉克戰爭中
06:52
Willful blindness exists on epic scales like those,
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刻意無視不僅發生在
像剛所提到的那些大範圍中
像剛所提到的那些大範圍中
06:56
and it also exists on very small scales,
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它也存在於十分微小的層面上
06:59
in people's families, in people's homes and communities,
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在家族裏，在家庭裏，也在社區裏
07:03
and particularly in organizations and institutions.
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特別是在組織和機構裏
07:08
Companies that have been studied for willful blindness
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那些接受“刻意無視”現象研究的公司
07:12
can be asked questions like,
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經常被問這樣的問題
07:15
"Are there issues at work
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“在工作上有沒有
07:17
that people are afraid to raise?"
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員工不願意提出來的問題？”
07:21
And when academics have done studies like this
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當研究機構對這樣的
07:23
of corporations in the United States,
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美國公司做研調時
07:25
what they find is 85 percent of people say yes.
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他們發現85%的人給出了肯定答案
07:31
Eighty-five percent of people know there's a problem,
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85%的人知道存在問題
07:34
but they won't say anything.
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但是他們什麽也不會說
07:36
And when I duplicated the research in Europe,
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我在歐洲重複這項調查時
07:39
asking all the same questions,
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問了一樣的問題
07:42
I found exactly the same number.
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我得到了完全一樣的數據結果
07:45
Eighty-five percent. That's a lot of silence.
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85%。那是靜靜的死寂
07:49
It's a lot of blindness.
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那是赤裸裸的無視
07:51
And what's really interesting is that when I go to companies in Switzerland,
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有趣的是，我訪查瑞士的公司時
07:54
they tell me, "This is a uniquely Swiss problem."
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他們告訴我：“那是瑞士獨有的問題”
07:58
And when I go to Germany, they say, "Oh yes, this is the German disease."
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而去德國時，他們說
“噢，是的，那是德國人的毛病。”
“噢，是的，那是德國人的毛病。”
08:02
And when I go to companies in England, they say,
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去英國公司時，他們會說
08:05
"Oh, yeah, the British are really bad at this."
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“哦，對啊，英國人在這方面挺差勁的“
08:08
And the truth is, this is a human problem.
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但真相是，那是人類的通病
08:13
We're all, under certain circumstances, willfully blind.
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在特定情況下，我們都“刻意無視”
08:19
What the research shows is that some people are blind
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研究結果表明
有些人因為害怕而無視
有些人因為害怕而無視
08:22
out of fear. They're afraid of retaliation.
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他們擔心遭到報復
08:25
And some people are blind because they think, well,
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有些人無視因為他們認為
08:29
seeing anything is just futile.
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看清一切也是徒勞的
08:31
Nothing's ever going to change.
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沒有什麽會因此而改變
08:33
If we make a protest, if we protest against the Iraq War,
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如果我們提出抗議
如果我們抗議伊拉克戰爭
如果我們抗議伊拉克戰爭
08:36
nothing changes, so why bother?
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不會發生什麽改變，那又何必為此操心？
08:38
Better not to see this stuff at all.
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還是不看見這樣的事情為好
08:42
And the recurrent theme that I encounter all the time
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我不斷遇到人們這樣說
08:45
is people say, "Well, you know,
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“嗯，你知道
08:48
the people who do see, they're whistleblowers,
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那些看清問題的人，是告密者
08:51
and we all know what happens to them."
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我們都知道他們將遭遇什麽”
08:54
So there's this profound mythology around whistleblowers
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所以對於那些告密者
人們存在著嚴重的誤解
人們存在著嚴重的誤解
08:58
which says, first of all, they're all crazy.
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首先，一般認為他們都是瘋子
09:02
But what I've found going around the world
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但是我走遍全球和那些告密者
09:05
and talking to whistleblowers is, actually,
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聊天時發現，事實上
09:08
they're very loyal and quite often very conservative people.
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他們十分忠誠，而且通常都是很保守的人
09:12
They're hugely dedicated to the institutions that they work for,
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他們在自己工作的組織奉獻自己
09:16
and the reason that they speak up,
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他們站出來指出問題
09:19
the reason they insist on seeing,
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堅持看見的問題的原因是
09:22
is because they care so much about the institution
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他們對自己的組織十分關心
09:25
and want to keep it healthy.
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並希望它健康發展。
09:29
And the other thing that people often say
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關於告密者，另外一件大家常常談論的事是
09:31
about whistleblowers is, "Well, there's no point,
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那沒有用啦
09:34
because you see what happens to them.
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因為他們的遭遇你也看見了
09:37
They are crushed.
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他們被打壓了
09:38
Nobody would want to go through something like that."
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沒有人願意經歷像這樣的事情
09:42
And yet, when I talk to whistleblowers,
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但是，當我和告密者交談時
09:45
the recurrent tone that I hear is pride.
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他們的語氣中總是帶著自豪感
09:50
I think of Joe Darby.
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我想起了喬伊達比
09:53
We all remember the photographs of Abu Ghraib,
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我們都記得Abu Ghraib的照片
（注：美軍虐待戰俘事件）
（注：美軍虐待戰俘事件）
09:56
which so shocked the world and showed the kind of war
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那張照片震驚了世界
10:00
that was being fought in Iraq.
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讓人們看到了伊拉克戰爭的面目
10:02
But I wonder who remembers Joe Darby,
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但是誰還記得喬伊達比
10:05
the very obedient, good soldier
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那是位十分服從命令的好士兵
10:09
who found those photographs and handed them in.
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是他發現那些照片並且發佈了它們
10:14
And he said, "You know, I'm not the kind of guy
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他說：你知道嗎，我不是那種狡猾的揭發者
10:17
to rat people out, but some things just cross the line.
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但是有些事做得太誇張了
10:22
Ignorance is bliss, they say,
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有人說無知者是幸福的
10:24
but you can't put up with things like this."
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但是你不能容忍像這樣的事情發生
10:27
I talked to Steve Bolsin, a British doctor,
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我和史蒂夫波爾森交談過
他是一位英國醫生
他是一位英國醫生
10:30
who fought for five years to draw attention
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他努力抗爭了五年
10:35
to a dangerous surgeon who was killing babies.
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讓人們注意那些誤殺嬰兒的危險手術
10:40
And I asked him why he did it, and he said,
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我問他爲什麽這樣做
10:42
"Well, it was really my daughter who prompted me to do it.
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他說：是我的女兒鼓勵我這樣做的
10:46
She came up to me one night, and she just said,
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一天晚上她來見我
10:48
'Dad, you can't let the kids die.'"
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她說：爸，你不能讓那些孩子喪命了
10:52
Or I think of Cynthia Thomas,
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也或者我會想到辛西婭托馬斯
10:54
a really loyal army daughter and army wife,
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她是一位忠誠的軍人女兒
也是一名軍人的妻子
也是一名軍人的妻子
10:58
who, as she saw her friends and relations
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當她看見她的親友
11:01
coming back from the Iraq War, was so shocked
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從伊拉克戰場上回來時
11:06
by their mental condition
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辛西婭對他們的精神狀態感到震驚
11:08
and the refusal of the military to recognize and acknowledge
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也對軍方拒絕承認他們得了
11:12
post-traumatic stress syndrome
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“創傷後壓力症候群”感到震驚
11:14
that she set up a cafe in the middle of a military town
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於是她在軍方的小鎮中心開了一家咖啡館
11:20
to give them legal, psychological and medical assistance.
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為那些士兵提供法律上
心理上和醫療上的協助
心理上和醫療上的協助
11:25
And she said to me, she said, "You know, Margaret,
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她對我說：瑪格麗特
11:28
I always used to say I didn't know what I wanted to be
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我以前都說我不知道
11:32
when I grow up.
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我長大後要做什麼
11:34
But I've found myself in this cause,
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但是因這個事件
我找到了自我價值
我找到了自我價值
11:39
and I'll never be the same."
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我已經煥然一新了
11:44
We all enjoy so many freedoms today,
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如今我們享受著廣泛的自由
11:47
hard-won freedoms:
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那是來之不易的自由
11:49
the freedom to write and publish without fear of censorship,
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無需擔心審查的寫作和出版自由
11:53
a freedom that wasn't here the last time I came to Hungary;
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是我上次到匈牙利時
他們所還沒有的自由
他們所還沒有的自由
11:56
a freedom to vote, which women in particular
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選舉的自由
11:59
had to fight so hard for;
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特別是婦女們奮鬥所爭取的選舉自由
12:01
the freedom for people of different ethnicities and cultures
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不同種族，不同文化，不同性取向的人
12:04
and sexual orientation to live the way that they want.
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可以依照他們渴望的
生活方式生活的自由
生活方式生活的自由
12:09
But freedom doesn't exist if you don't use it,
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但是如果你不使用自由，它就形同虛設
12:14
and what whistleblowers do,
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那些告密者
和像蓋拉貝尼菲爾德那樣做的人
和像蓋拉貝尼菲爾德那樣做的人
12:16
and what people like Gayla Benefield do
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他們的所作所為
12:19
is they use the freedom that they have.
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代表他們真正行使了所擁有的自由
12:24
And what they're very prepared to do is recognize
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並且他們已經充分的意識到
12:27
that yes, this is going to be an argument,
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是的，那樣做將會面對爭議
12:30
and yes I'm going to have a lot of rows
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而且我的鄰居，同事和朋友
12:33
with my neighbors and my colleagues and my friends,
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都會反對自己
12:37
but I'm going to become very good at this conflict.
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但是在這個衝突中我會變得非常好
12:40
I'm going to take on the naysayers,
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我會面對那些反對者
12:42
because they'll make my argument better and stronger.
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因為他們會使我的論述
變得更好更完善
變得更好更完善
12:47
I can collaborate with my opponents
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我可以和反對者合作
12:50
to become better at what I do.
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來讓自己更善於處理我正著手在做的事
12:54
These are people of immense persistence,
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那些人有極大的持久力
12:57
incredible patience, and an absolute determination
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不可思議的耐心和不可動搖的決心
13:02
not to be blind and not to be silent.
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他們不願意視而不見
13:07
When I went to Libby, Montana,
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當我去Libby時
13:11
I visited the asbestosis clinic
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我拜訪了由蓋拉創建的
13:14
that Gayla Benefield brought into being,
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石棉沉滯症診所
13:18
a place where at first some of the people
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一開始有些人
13:21
who wanted help and needed medical attention
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想要得到幫助和醫療關注時
13:24
went in the back door
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都會從後門進入
13:27
because they didn't want to acknowledge
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因為他們不想承認
13:29
that she'd been right.
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蓋拉是正確的
13:31
I sat in a diner, and I watched
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我坐在餐廳裏觀察著
13:35
as trucks drove up and down the highway,
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卡車行駛在高速路
13:39
carting away the earth out of gardens
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一車車運走花園裏的土壤
13:43
and replacing it with fresh, uncontaminated soil.
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然後替換上新鮮的，無污染的土壤
13:50
I took my 12-year-old daughter with me,
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我和我12歲的女兒在一起
13:52
because I really wanted her to meet Gayla.
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因為我真心希望她見見蓋拉
13:55
And she said, "Why? What's the big deal?"
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女兒問道：爲什麽？這有什麼了不起的
13:58
I said, "She's not a movie star,
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我說：她不是一位影星
14:01
and she's not a celebrity, and she's not an expert,
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她也不是名人，更不是專家
14:05
and Gayla's the first person who'd say
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但是她是第一個說
14:08
she's not a saint.
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自己不是聖人的
14:11
The really important thing about Gayla
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蓋拉的閃亮之處
14:14
is she is ordinary.
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就在於她的平凡
14:16
She's like you, and she's like me.
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她和你一樣，也和我一樣
14:21
She had freedom, and she was ready to use it."
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她擁有自由，並善用了它
14:27
Thank you very much.
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非常感謝
14:29
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Margaret Heffernan - Management thinkerThe former CEO of five businesses, Margaret Heffernan explores the all-too-human thought patterns -- like conflict avoidance and selective blindness -- that lead organizations and managers astray.
Why you should listen
How do organizations think? In her book Willful Blindness, Margaret Heffernan examines why businesses and the people who run them often ignore the obvious -- with consequences as dire as the global financial crisis and Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster.
Heffernan began her career in television production, building a track record at the BBC before going on to run the film and television producer trade association IPPA. In the US, Heffernan became a serial entrepreneur and CEO in the wild early days of web business. She now blogs for the Huffington Post and BNET.com. Her latest book, Beyond Measure, a TED Books original, explores the small steps companies can make that lead to big changes in their culture.
Margaret Heffernan | Speaker | TED.com