TEDGlobalLondon
Jon Ronson: When online shaming goes too far
強．朗森: 當網路霸凌走調失控時會怎樣呢?
Filmed:
Readability: 4.4
3,565,658 views
長久以來，強．朗森縱情於推特讓沈默的人有了聲音，該社群媒體平台給了我們所有人說出心底話，以及在發現不公不義時做回擊的機會。不過一路走來，事情逐漸逆轉，在這個熱情洋溢、深得人心的演說中，朗森討論我們往往表現的像叫囂的暴民。是重新思考如何與他人在網路上做互動的時候了。
Jon Ronson - Writer, filmmaker
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession. Full bio
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
In the early days of Twitter,
it was like a place of radical de-shaming.
it was like a place of radical de-shaming.
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在「推特」早先的日子裡
它像是一個徹底擺脫羞愧的地方，
它像是一個徹底擺脫羞愧的地方，
00:17
People would admit
shameful secrets about themselves,
shameful secrets about themselves,
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大家會招認有關自己丟臉的小祕密，
00:20
and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
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而其他人會說「我的天！
我完全一模一樣耶！」，
我完全一模一樣耶！」，
00:24
Voiceless people realized
that they had a voice,
that they had a voice,
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講話沒人在意者瞭解了
他們有個聲音能被聽到，
他們有個聲音能被聽到，
而且這聲音力量十足又深得人心，
00:27
and it was powerful and eloquent.
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00:30
If a newspaper ran some racist
or homophobic column,
or homophobic column,
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如果有報紙刊登某些種族主義
或是憎惡同性戀的專欄，
或是憎惡同性戀的專欄，
我們知道我們可以做點事情、
00:35
we realized we could do
something about it.
something about it.
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00:37
We could get them.
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我們可以逮住他們、
00:39
We could hit them with a weapon
that we understood but they didn't --
that we understood but they didn't --
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我們可以用我們比他們瞭解的武器來攻擊他們
－社群媒體霸凌。
00:42
a social media shaming.
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廣告主會撤走廣告。
00:45
Advertisers would withdraw
their advertising.
their advertising.
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00:48
When powerful people
misused their privilege,
misused their privilege,
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當有力人士濫用其權勢
我們將會逮住他們，
我們將會逮住他們，
00:51
we were going to get them.
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00:54
This was like the
democratization of justice.
democratization of justice.
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這就像是民主式的正義，
00:57
Hierarchies were being leveled out.
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階級被夷平了，
我們將會把事情做的更棒。
00:59
We were going to do things better.
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01:02
Soon after that, a disgraced
pop science writer called Jonah Lehrer --
pop science writer called Jonah Lehrer --
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沒多久，一名顏面盡失的流行科學寫手
喬納． 雷爾
喬納． 雷爾
01:06
he'd been caught plagiarizing
and faking quotes,
and faking quotes,
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他被抓到抄襲以及竄改引用資料，
01:10
and he was drenched in shame
and regret, he told me.
and regret, he told me.
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他跟我說他滿腹羞愧與懊悔；
而他有機會，
在一個午餐大會上公開道歉，
在一個午餐大會上公開道歉，
01:13
And he had the opportunity
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01:15
to publicly apologize
at a foundation lunch.
at a foundation lunch.
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01:19
This was going to be the most
important speech of his life.
important speech of his life.
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這將會是他這輩子最重要的發言，
01:22
Maybe it would win him some salvation.
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或許這會為他帶來一些救贖。
早在他抵達前他已經知道
01:25
He knew before he arrived
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01:26
that the foundation was going to be
live-streaming his event,
live-streaming his event,
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該大會打算線上直播他的道歉事件，
不過直到他抵達前他所不知道的事，
01:29
but what he didn't know
until he turned up,
until he turned up,
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01:31
was that they'd erected a giant screen
Twitter feed right next to his head.
Twitter feed right next to his head.
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是他們已經在他的頭旁邊豎立起
一個即時推特直播的大螢幕；
一個即時推特直播的大螢幕；
01:36
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:38
Another one in a monitor screen
in his eye line.
in his eye line.
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另一個螢幕就在他眼前。
我不認為大會這麼做是因為它們邪惡，
01:40
I don't think the foundation did this
because they were monstrous.
because they were monstrous.
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我認為他們純粹是搞不清楚狀況；
我認為那是一個特別的時刻，
我認為那是一個特別的時刻，
01:44
I think they were clueless:
I think this was a unique moment
I think this was a unique moment
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01:47
when the beautiful naivety of Twitter
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當推特美好的純真
正成為越來越恐怖的現實。
01:49
was hitting the increasingly
horrific reality.
horrific reality.
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01:53
And here were some of the Tweets
that were cascading into his eye line,
that were cascading into his eye line,
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當他想要道歉時，
這裡是湧入他眼簾的
某些推特推文 －
某些推特推文 －
01:57
as he was trying to apologize:
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01:58
"Jonah Lehrer, boring us
into forgiving him."
into forgiving him."
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「喬納． 雷爾想煩我們
煩到饒過他呢。」
煩到饒過他呢。」
（笑聲）
02:02
(Laughter)
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以及「喬納． 雷爾尚無法證明
他有羞恥心」，
他有羞恥心」，
02:03
And, "Jonah Lehrer has not proven
that he is capable of feeling shame."
that he is capable of feeling shame."
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02:08
That one must have been written
by the best psychiatrist ever,
by the best psychiatrist ever,
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那則推文必定是至今以來最棒的
精神科醫師所寫的，
精神科醫師所寫的，
才能看到人所不能見之事；
02:12
to know that about such
a tiny figure behind a lectern.
a tiny figure behind a lectern.
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02:16
And, "Jonah Lehrer is just
a frigging sociopath."
a frigging sociopath."
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還有「喬納． 雷爾不過就是個
該死的神經病！」，
該死的神經病！」，
02:19
That last word is a very human thing
to do, to dehumanize the people we hurt.
to do, to dehumanize the people we hurt.
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最後的用詞倒是非常人性，
人們往往先剝奪我們傷害對象的人性，
人們往往先剝奪我們傷害對象的人性，
02:25
It's because we want to destroy people
but not feel bad about it.
but not feel bad about it.
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我們希望在摧毀他人的同時，
不要有什麼不好的感覺。
不要有什麼不好的感覺。
試想如果這是真實的法庭，
02:30
Imagine if this was an actual court,
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02:32
and the accused was in the dark,
begging for another chance,
begging for another chance,
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遭指控者非常惆悵、
冀求得到另一次機會，
冀求得到另一次機會，
02:35
and the jury was yelling out,
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而法官喝斥出：「煩死了！
神經病！」
神經病！」
02:37
"Bored! Sociopath!"
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（笑聲）
02:40
(Laughter)
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02:41
You know, when we watch
courtroom dramas, we tend to identify
courtroom dramas, we tend to identify
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你們也知道當我們在觀賞法庭劇時
02:44
with the kindhearted defense attorney,
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我們會認同好心腸的辯護律師，
02:47
but give us the power,
and we become like hanging judges.
and we become like hanging judges.
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不過給我們權力之後
我們變得喜歡奪人性命的法官。
我們變得喜歡奪人性命的法官。
02:51
Power shifts fast.
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權力移轉良快，
我們逮到喬納是因為
他被察覺濫用他的權勢，
他被察覺濫用他的權勢，
02:54
We were getting Jonah because he was
perceived to have misused his privilege,
perceived to have misused his privilege,
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不過後來他被整倒在地了
我們仍然不停攻擊，
我們仍然不停攻擊，
02:58
but Jonah was on the floor then,
and we were still kicking,
and we were still kicking,
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而且為了動手、出口而恭維自己。
03:02
and congratulating ourselves
for punching up.
for punching up.
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03:05
And it began to feel weird and empty
when there wasn't a powerful person
when there wasn't a powerful person
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當沒了我們可以逮住的
濫用權勢之有力人士，
濫用權勢之有力人士，
03:09
who had misused their privilege
that we could get.
that we could get.
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我們湧起一種怪異的空虛。
一天沒有羞辱人開始覺得
03:13
A day without a shaming
began to feel like a day
began to feel like a day
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03:16
picking fingernails and treading water.
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像是百般無聊的一天。
讓我來告訴你們一個故事，
03:21
Let me tell you a story.
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03:23
It's about a woman called Justine Sacco.
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是有關於一位叫做
「賈絲汀．薩科」的女人，
「賈絲汀．薩科」的女人，
03:26
She was a PR woman from New York
with 170 Twitter followers,
with 170 Twitter followers,
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她是位來自紐約的公關，
有 170 名推特追隨者，
有 170 名推特追隨者，
03:30
and she'd Tweet little
acerbic jokes to them,
acerbic jokes to them,
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她不時撰寫一些尖酸的短文給他們。
03:33
like this one on a plane
from New York to London:
from New York to London:
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像是這個在要從紐約到倫敦的
飛機上所「推」出的玩笑：
飛機上所「推」出的玩笑：
03:37
[Weird German Dude: You're in first class.
It's 2014. Get some deodorant."
It's 2014. Get some deodorant."
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［當吸到體臭味時 內心之獨白 －
怪異的德國佬，你就在頭等艙裡，
怪異的德國佬，你就在頭等艙裡，
現在是 2014 年了，用點除臭劑吧！
感謝上帝給了我們製藥廠！］
感謝上帝給了我們製藥廠！］
03:40
-Inner monologue as inhale BO.
Thank god for pharmaceuticals.]
Thank god for pharmaceuticals.]
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所以賈絲汀暗自竊笑並且按下送出，
但都沒有收到回應，
但都沒有收到回應，
03:44
So Justine chuckled to herself,
and pressed send, and got no replies,
and pressed send, and got no replies,
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而感受到當網路上沒有
恭維我們表現風趣時
恭維我們表現風趣時
03:47
and felt that sad feeling that we all feel
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03:49
when the Internet doesn't
congratulate us for being funny.
congratulate us for being funny.
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我們都會感受到的那種難過的感覺，
03:53
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
當網路上沒有人回話就是
毫無希望的靜寂。
毫無希望的靜寂。
03:54
Black silence when the Internet
doesn't talk back.
doesn't talk back.
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03:58
And then she got to Heathrow,
and she had a little time to spare
and she had a little time to spare
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後來她到了希斯洛機場，
在她最後一段飛航行程前
在她最後一段飛航行程前
04:01
before her final leg, so she thought up
another funny little acerbic joke:
another funny little acerbic joke:
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她有些許時間可以空出來，所以她想出
另一個好笑、有點尖酸的玩笑話：
另一個好笑、有點尖酸的玩笑話：
04:06
[Going to Africa. Hope I don't get AIDS.
Just kidding. I'm white!]
Just kidding. I'm white!]
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［要去非洲了，希望我不會得愛滋病！
耍你的啦，我是白人！］。
耍你的啦，我是白人！］。
然後她暗自竊笑、按下送出，
沒有人回覆，上了飛機，
沒有人回覆，上了飛機，
04:10
And she chuckled to herself, pressed send,
got on the plane, got no replies,
got on the plane, got no replies,
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04:16
turned off her phone, fell asleep,
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關掉手機睡著了；
十一個鐘頭後醒過來了，
04:19
woke up 11 hours later,
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04:21
turned on her phone while the plane
was taxiing on the runway,
was taxiing on the runway,
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當飛機正要停在跑道上時打開了手機，
隨即有個來自她從高中後
04:24
and straightaway there was
a message from somebody
a message from somebody
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就沒再說過話的某人所送出的訊息，
04:27
that she hadn't spoken
to since high school,
to since high school,
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寫道：「我是如此遺憾的看到
正發生在妳身上的事情」，
正發生在妳身上的事情」，
04:29
that said, "I am so sorry
to see what's happening to you."
to see what's happening to you."
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04:35
And then another message
from a best friend,
from a best friend,
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之後另一個來自最要好的朋友的訊息：
04:37
"You need to call me right now.
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「你馬上得打個電話給我！
04:39
You are the worldwide number one
trending topic on Twitter."
trending topic on Twitter."
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妳是推特上頭全世界
第一名的熱門話題」。
第一名的熱門話題」。
（笑聲）
04:43
(Laughter)
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04:46
What had happened is that one
of her 170 followers had sent the Tweet
of her 170 followers had sent the Tweet
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所發生之事就是她 170 位追隨者中的
一位送出該推文給 Gawker 的記者，
一位送出該推文給 Gawker 的記者，
04:49
to a Gawker journalist, and he
retweeted it to his 15,000 followers:
retweeted it to his 15,000 followers:
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而他再「推」給他一萬五千名的追隨者
04:55
[And now, a funny holiday joke
from IAC's PR boss]
from IAC's PR boss]
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［一個來自 ICA 公關總監
不得體的節慶笑話］，
不得體的節慶笑話］，
之後就像一道閃電般迅速蔓延開了。
04:57
And then it was like a bolt of lightning.
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幾個星期之後我跟該名記者談過，
04:59
A few weeks later, I talked
to the Gawker journalist.
to the Gawker journalist.
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05:02
I emailed him and asked him how it felt,
and he said, "It felt delicious."
and he said, "It felt delicious."
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我寄電子郵件給他詢問他有什麼感覺，
他說：「這感覺太愉悅了！」，
他說：「這感覺太愉悅了！」，
接著又說：「不過我肯定她好好的」；
05:06
And then he said,
"But I'm sure she's fine."
"But I'm sure she's fine."
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05:09
But she wasn't fine,
because while she slept,
because while she slept,
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但是她並不好過，
因為在她睡著時
因為在她睡著時
05:12
Twitter took control of her life
and dismantled it piece by piece.
and dismantled it piece by piece.
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推特掌控了她的生活、
將其粉碎瓦解。
將其粉碎瓦解。
05:19
First there were the philanthropists:
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起先是善心人士 －
05:21
[If @JustineSacco's unfortunate
words ... bother you,
words ... bother you,
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［如果賈絲汀不當的發文讓你擔心－
和我一起來援助 CARE
在非洲的工作］、
在非洲的工作］、
05:24
join me in supporting
@CARE's work in Africa.]
@CARE's work in Africa.]
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［因為令人做噁、種族主義的推文，
我今天將要捐錢給CARE］。
我今天將要捐錢給CARE］。
05:26
[In light of ... disgusting,
racist tweet, I'm donating to @care today]
racist tweet, I'm donating to @care today]
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接著變成感到震驚不已 －
05:30
Then came the beyond horrified:
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［對來自賈絲汀極度令人做噁之
種族主義者的下賤推文我無言以對，
種族主義者的下賤推文我無言以對，
05:31
[... no words for that horribly disgusting
racist as fuck tweet from Justine Sacco.
racist as fuck tweet from Justine Sacco.
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我感到震驚不已］。
有誰那晚在推特上嗎？
只有一些人呀！
只有一些人呀！
05:35
I am beyond horrified.]
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05:36
Was anybody on Twitter
that night? A few of you.
that night? A few of you.
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賈絲汀的玩笑話有沒有像我的
那樣淹沒掉你的推特時間軸呢？
那樣淹沒掉你的推特時間軸呢？
05:39
Did Justine's joke overwhelm
your Twitter feed the way it did mine?
your Twitter feed the way it did mine?
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05:42
It did mine, and I thought
what everybody thought that night,
what everybody thought that night,
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它就這樣淹沒了我的時間軸；
我想的跟那晚每個人想的一樣，
我想的跟那晚每個人想的一樣，
就是 －「 哇！有人完蛋了、
有人的日子不好過了」。
有人的日子不好過了」。
05:45
which was, "Wow, somebody's screwed!
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05:48
Somebody's life is about to get terrible!"
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05:50
And I sat up in my bed,
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我在我的床上坐了起來，
把枕頭放到腦後，
05:52
and I put the pillow behind my head,
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我接著在想 － 我不全然肯定那個
玩笑就是想表現出種族優越感，
玩笑就是想表現出種族優越感，
05:55
and then I thought, I'm not entirely sure
that joke was intended to be racist.
that joke was intended to be racist.
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也許炫燿權勢，
06:00
Maybe instead of gleefully
flaunting her privilege,
flaunting her privilege,
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06:03
she was mocking the gleeful
flaunting of privilege.
flaunting of privilege.
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反而是在嘲弄炫燿權勢，
這是一種喜劇傳統 －
06:05
There's a comedy tradition of this,
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06:07
like South Park or Colbert
or Randy Newman.
or Randy Newman.
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像是「南方四賤客」、
「荷伯報告」、蘭迪．紐曼。
「荷伯報告」、蘭迪．紐曼。
也許賈絲汀的罪過就是沒有表現得
像蘭迪．紐曼一樣好，
像蘭迪．紐曼一樣好，
06:11
Maybe Justine Sacco's crime was not being
as good at it as Randy Newman.
as good at it as Randy Newman.
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06:16
In fact, when I met Justine
a couple of weeks later in a bar,
a couple of weeks later in a bar,
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事實上當我幾個禮拜後與賈絲汀
在一間酒吧會面時她就是很受傷的，
在一間酒吧會面時她就是很受傷的，
06:19
she was just crushed,
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06:21
and I asked her to explain the joke,
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我請她為那個笑話做出解釋，
她說道：「當提到正發生在
第三世界的事情時，
第三世界的事情時，
06:23
and she said, "Living in America
puts us in a bit of a bubble
puts us in a bit of a bubble
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活在美國讓我們置身於
些微榮景的泡沫之中，
些微榮景的泡沫之中，
06:27
when it comes to what is going on
in the Third World.
in the Third World.
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我只是取笑那個泡沫罷了。」
06:29
I was making of fun of that bubble."
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06:32
You know, another woman on Twitter that
night, a New Statesman writer Helen Lewis,
night, a New Statesman writer Helen Lewis,
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知道嗎？那晚另一個在推特上的女人 －
「新政治家」的撰稿人海倫．路易斯，
「新政治家」的撰稿人海倫．路易斯，
06:36
she reviewed my book on public shaming
and wrote that she Tweeted that night,
and wrote that she Tweeted that night,
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她校對了我在公開羞辱議題上的書，
寫到她那晚的推文：
寫到她那晚的推文：
「我不確定她的玩笑話
是想表現出種族主義」，
是想表現出種族主義」，
06:40
"I'm not sure that her joke
was intended to be racist,"
was intended to be racist,"
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06:43
and she said straightaway she got
a fury of Tweets saying,
a fury of Tweets saying,
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她說馬上她就收到盛怒的推文寫道：
06:46
"Well, you're just
a privileged bitch, too."
a privileged bitch, too."
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「很好！妳也不過是個
享有權勢的賤人罷了！」，
享有權勢的賤人罷了！」，
她羞愧地回應，
06:48
And so to her shame, she wrote,
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06:51
she shut up and watched
as Justine's life got torn apart.
as Justine's life got torn apart.
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她封口了、看著賈絲汀的人生被摧毀掉。
開始變得更威脅式的 －
06:57
It started to get darker:
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06:59
[Everyone go report
this cunt @JustineSacco]
this cunt @JustineSacco]
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「大家來舉發賈絲汀這個討厭鬼吧！」，
07:02
Then came the calls for her to be fired.
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後來變成訴求她被解職 －
「祝新的一年找工作順利
＃被人開除吧！」
＃被人開除吧！」
07:05
[Good luck with the job hunt
in the new year. #GettingFired]
in the new year. #GettingFired]
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全世界各地好幾千人打定主意
讓她被開除是他們的職責，
讓她被開除是他們的職責，
07:07
Thousands of people around the world
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07:09
decided it was their duty
to get her fired.
to get her fired.
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[賈絲汀為你的職涯最後推個文吧！
＃很遺憾並不感到遺憾］
＃很遺憾並不感到遺憾］
07:13
[@JustineSacco last tweet
of your career. #SorryNotSorry
of your career. #SorryNotSorry
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公司行號也來湊熱鬧了，
07:17
Corporations got involved,
hoping to sell their products
hoping to sell their products
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希望在對賈絲汀的抹殺
背後販售她們的產品 －
背後販售她們的產品 －
07:20
on the back of Justine's annihilation:
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07:22
[Next time you plan to tweet something
stupid before you take off,
stupid before you take off,
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［下次在你打算在起飛前推很白痴的文，
確保好你是上了 Gogo 航空！］，
07:25
make sure you are getting
on a @Gogo flight!]
on a @Gogo flight!]
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07:28
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
07:30
A lot of companies were making
good money that night.
good money that night.
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許多公司在那晚持續賺進大把鈔票，
07:33
You know, Justine's name was normally
Googled 40 times a month.
Googled 40 times a month.
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知道嗎？賈絲汀的名字通常
一個月被人 Google 了 40 次，
一個月被人 Google 了 40 次，
那一個月從十二月二十幾號到月底之間
07:37
That month, between December the 20th
and the end of December,
and the end of December,
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07:40
her name was Googled 1,220,000 times.
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她的名字被 Google 搜尋了122 萬次，
07:45
And one Internet economist told me
that that meant that Google made
that that meant that Google made
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而一位網路經濟專家告訴我
那代表了 Google
那代表了 Google
從賈絲汀的抹殺中賺進了十二萬到
四十六萬八千美元之間的某個數額，
四十六萬八千美元之間的某個數額，
07:49
somewhere between 120,000 dollars
and 468,000 dollars
and 468,000 dollars
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07:54
from Justine's annihilation, whereas
those of us doing the actual shaming --
those of us doing the actual shaming --
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在這邊那些做出實際羞辱的我們
什麼東西也沒拿到，
什麼東西也沒拿到，
07:58
we got nothing.
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07:59
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:00
We were like unpaid
shaming interns for Google.
shaming interns for Google.
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我們對 Google 而言就像是
免費的羞辱實習生。
免費的羞辱實習生。
08:04
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:07
And then came the trolls:
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接著出現了惹人生氣的網路留言 －
［我確實有點希望賈絲汀得愛滋病］，
08:09
[I'm actually kind of hoping
Justine Sacco gets aids? lol]
Justine Sacco gets aids? lol]
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另外的某人在那發言下面寫道：
08:12
Somebody else on that wrote,
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「帶有 HIV 病毒的人應該強姦這個婊子，
然後我們就會知道
然後我們就會知道
08:14
"Somebody HIV-positive should rape
this bitch and then we'll find out
this bitch and then we'll find out
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是否她的膚色能保護她不得愛滋病」，
08:17
if her skin color protects her from AIDS."
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而那個人取得特許通行權，
08:19
And that person got a free pass.
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08:22
Nobody went after that person.
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沒人去追查出那個人，
08:24
We were all so excited
about destroying Justine,
about destroying Justine,
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我們都是如此興高采烈的
要毀掉賈絲汀，
要毀掉賈絲汀，
08:26
and our shaming brains
are so simple-minded,
are so simple-minded,
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以及我們可笑的腦袋是如此少根筋，
08:29
that we couldn't also handle
destroying somebody
destroying somebody
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我們不能一併處理來摧毀過分地
摧毀賈絲汀的某人。
摧毀賈絲汀的某人。
08:31
who was inappropriately
destroying Justine.
destroying Justine.
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08:35
Justine was really uniting
a lot of disparate groups that night,
a lot of disparate groups that night,
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賈絲汀在那晚確實團結了
許許多多全然不同的團體 －
許許多多全然不同的團體 －
08:39
from philanthropists to "rape the bitch."
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從慈善家到「強姦這賤人」，
08:42
[@JustineSacco I hope you get fired!
You demented bitch...
You demented bitch...
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［賈絲汀我盼望你被革職！
你這發狂的賤人，
你這發狂的賤人，
就這麼讓世界知道你打算要去
非洲睡赤裸的黑人！］。
非洲睡赤裸的黑人！］。
08:46
Just let the world know you're planning
to ride bare back while in Africa.]
to ride bare back while in Africa.]
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08:50
Women always have it worse than men.
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女人總是有比男人更不堪的批評，
當一個男人被羞辱了，
那是「我會讓你被革職！」；
那是「我會讓你被革職！」；
08:52
When a man gets shamed, it's,
"I'm going to get you fired."
"I'm going to get you fired."
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08:55
When a woman gets shamed, it's,
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當一個女人被羞辱了，
08:57
"I'm going to get you fired
and raped and cut out your uterus."
and raped and cut out your uterus."
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那是「我會讓你被革職、
被強姦、割掉你的子宮！」；
被強姦、割掉你的子宮！」；
09:01
And then Justine's employers got involved:
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然後賈絲汀的雇主也淌進這渾水中了 －
09:04
[IAC on @JustineSacco tweet: This is an
outrageous, offensive comment.
outrageous, offensive comment.
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［ IAC 集團在賈絲汀的推特上推文：
這是個讓人火大、令人不快的言論，
這是個讓人火大、令人不快的言論，
有爭議的員工最近出航國外無法洽找］。
09:07
Employee in question currently
unreachable on an intl flight.]
unreachable on an intl flight.]
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而這是當憤怒變得激憤 －
09:10
And that's when the anger
turned to excitement:
turned to excitement:
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［對聖誕節而言我所想要的一切 ，
就是看到當賈絲汀的飛機落地
就是看到當賈絲汀的飛機落地
09:12
[All I want for Christmas is to see
@JustineSacco's face when her plane lands
@JustineSacco's face when her plane lands
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她檢視收信匣、
語音留言時的表情＃被開除了］、
語音留言時的表情＃被開除了］、
［哎！老兄，當飛機落地了
賈絲汀即將要有
賈絲汀即將要有
09:16
and she checks
her inbox/voicemail. #fired]
her inbox/voicemail. #fired]
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至今為止最痛苦的接電話時間］、
09:18
[Oh man, @justinesacco
is going to have the most painful
is going to have the most painful
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［我們差不多要即時看到
賤人賈絲汀被開除了，
賤人賈絲汀被開除了，
09:21
phone-turning-on moment ever
when her plane lands.]
when her plane lands.]
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09:23
[We are about to watch this @JustineSacco
bitch get fired. In REAL time.
bitch get fired. In REAL time.
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早於甚至她清楚她正要被開除］。
我們有的是讓人開心的故事轉折，
09:27
Before she even KNOWS
she's getting fired.]
she's getting fired.]
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我們知道賈絲汀所不知道的一些事情，
09:29
What we had was
a delightful narrative arc.
a delightful narrative arc.
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你能想到任何比這個還不公平的事情嗎？
09:31
We knew something that Justine didn't.
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09:33
Can you think of anything
less judicial than this?
less judicial than this?
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賈絲汀在飛機上睡著了而且
沒有辦法為自己解釋，
沒有辦法為自己解釋，
09:35
Justine was asleep on a plane
and unable to explain herself,
and unable to explain herself,
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09:38
and her inability was
a huge part of the hilarity.
a huge part of the hilarity.
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而且她的無能為力
是這場鬧劇很大的一部分，
是這場鬧劇很大的一部分，
09:42
On Twitter that night, we were
like toddlers crawling towards a gun.
like toddlers crawling towards a gun.
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那晚在推特上我們像是走路不穩的
小孩正往著槍枝爬過去。
小孩正往著槍枝爬過去。
有人想出到底她是在哪一架飛機上頭，
09:47
Somebody worked out exactly
which plane she was on, so they linked
which plane she was on, so they linked
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09:50
to a flight tracker website.
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所以他們連結上一個航班追蹤的網站，
［英國航空 43 航班「準點」，
1 小時 34 分鐘內抵達］
1 小時 34 分鐘內抵達］
09:52
[British Airways Flight 43
On-time - arrives in 1 hour 34 minutes]
On-time - arrives in 1 hour 34 minutes]
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09:56
A hashtag began trending worldwide:
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一個主題標籤開始橫掃全世界：
09:58
# hasJustineLandedYet?
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＃賈絲汀落地了沒呀？
［這有點瘋狂，看到某人自我毀滅，
10:01
[It is kinda wild
to see someone self-destruct
to see someone self-destruct
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他們卻壓根不曉得這件事
＃賈絲汀落地了沒呀？］、
＃賈絲汀落地了沒呀？］、
10:03
without them even being aware of it.
#hasJustineLandedYet]
#hasJustineLandedYet]
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10:06
[Seriously. I just want to go home
to go to bed, but everyone at the bar
to go to bed, but everyone at the bar
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［不騙你我只是想回家、爬上床，
但是每個在酒吧的人是如此的投入在
但是每個在酒吧的人是如此的投入在
10:09
is SO into #HasJustineLandedYet.
Can't look away. Can't leave.]
Can't look away. Can't leave.]
193
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＃賈絲汀落地了沒呀？
沒辦法視若無睹、沒辦法脫身］、
沒辦法視若無睹、沒辦法脫身］、
［＃賈絲汀落地了沒呀？可能是我在
禮拜五晚上發生過最棒的事情吧！］、
禮拜五晚上發生過最棒的事情吧！］、
10:12
[#HasJustineLandedYet may be the best
thing to happen to my Friday night.]
thing to happen to my Friday night.]
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［在開普敦沒人打算去機場
推文她的抵達嗎？
推文她的抵達嗎？
推特快點！我想要照片阿］。
10:16
[Is no one in Cape Town going
to the airport to tweet her arrival?
to the airport to tweet her arrival?
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你猜怎麼著了，是的有人推文了！
10:19
Come on, twitter! I'd like pictures]
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［賈絲汀事實上已經降落在
開普敦國際機場了，」
開普敦國際機場了，」
10:20
And guess what? Yes there was.
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如果你想知道那看起來怎樣 －
10:22
[@JustineSacco HAS in fact landed
at Cape Town international.
at Cape Town international.
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發現你正因為被誤解了沒分寸的
笑話而受到強力抨擊，
笑話而受到強力抨擊，
10:25
And if you want to know
what it looks like to discover
what it looks like to discover
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10:27
that you've just been torn to shreds
because of a misconstrued liberal joke,
because of a misconstrued liberal joke,
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那不是妖魔鬼怪所為，
而是像我們一樣的好人做的，
而是像我們一樣的好人做的，
10:31
not by trolls, but by nice people like us,
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10:33
this is what it looks like:
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這就是看起來的樣子 －
「她決定用墨鏡來掩藏自己」
「她決定用墨鏡來掩藏自己」
10:35
[... She's decided to wear
sunnies as a disguise.]
sunnies as a disguise.]
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10:37
So why did we do it?
204
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那麼為什麼我們要這麼做呢？
10:39
I think some people were genuinely upset,
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我認為有些人真的非常生氣，
10:42
but I think for other people,
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1428
但是我想對其他人來說，
10:44
it's because Twitter is basically
a mutual approval machine.
a mutual approval machine.
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3023
因為推特基本上是一個
共同認可的機器，
共同認可的機器，
10:47
We surround ourselves with people
who feel the same way we do,
who feel the same way we do,
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我們讓與我們感覺一致的
人圍繞著自己，
人圍繞著自己，
10:50
and we approve each other,
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1263
而我們認可了彼此，
10:51
and that's a really good feeling.
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1651
那確實是個很好的感覺；
10:53
And if somebody gets in the way,
we screen them out.
we screen them out.
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而要是有人礙事我們就汰除掉他們，
10:55
And do you know what
that's the opposite of?
that's the opposite of?
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你知道這是什麼東西的相反嗎？
10:58
It's the opposite of democracy.
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那是民主的相反。
11:00
We wanted to show that we cared
about people dying of AIDS in Africa.
about people dying of AIDS in Africa.
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我們希望表達我們關心
在非洲正因愛滋病死去的眾人，
在非洲正因愛滋病死去的眾人，
11:04
Our desire to be seen to be compassionate
is what led us to commit
is what led us to commit
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我們想讓人當成是富有愛心的欲望
就是導致我們進行
就是導致我們進行
11:08
this profoundly un-compassionate act.
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這個極度一點愛心都沒有的行動。
11:11
As Meghan O'Gieblyn wrote
in the Boston Review,
in the Boston Review,
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如同梅根．歐基布林在
「波士頓評論」裡寫道：
「波士頓評論」裡寫道：
「這並不是社會公義，
這是宣洩情感的其他方式」。
這是宣洩情感的其他方式」。
11:14
"This isn't social justice.
It's a cathartic alternative."
It's a cathartic alternative."
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11:19
For the past three years,
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過去三年來我跑遍世界與
像賈絲汀遭遇的人碰面，
像賈絲汀遭遇的人碰面，
11:20
I've been going around the world
meeting people like Justine Sacco --
meeting people like Justine Sacco --
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相信我有著極多人就像賈絲汀這樣，
11:24
and believe me, there's a lot
of people like Justine Sacco.
of people like Justine Sacco.
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11:27
There's more every day.
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每一天都有更多；
11:28
And we want to think they're fine,
but they're not fine.
but they're not fine.
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我們想認為他們沒事，
但是他們並非沒事，
但是他們並非沒事，
11:32
The people I met were mangled.
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我遇見的人都被毀了，
11:34
They talked to me about depression,
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他們跟我談了關於抑鬱、
11:36
and anxiety and insomnia
and suicidal thoughts.
and suicidal thoughts.
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焦慮、失眠以及自殺的念頭。
11:40
One woman I talked to,
who also told a joke that landed badly,
who also told a joke that landed badly,
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有個和我說過話的女人
也講了個下場悽慘的笑話，
也講了個下場悽慘的笑話，
一年半的時間她走不出家門外，
11:44
she stayed home for a year and a half.
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在那之前她陪著
有學習障礙的成年人工作，
有學習障礙的成年人工作，
11:47
Before that, she worked with adults
with learning difficulties,
with learning difficulties,
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而且似乎在工作上確實表現很好。
11:51
and was apparently really good at her job.
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11:55
Justine was fired, of course,
because social media demanded it.
because social media demanded it.
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當然賈絲汀就被開除了，
因為是社交媒體強烈要求的，
因為是社交媒體強烈要求的，
但是事情卻更糟了，
11:59
But it was worse than that.
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12:01
She was losing herself.
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賈絲汀迷失了自己，
12:03
She was waking up in the middle
of the night, forgetting who she was.
of the night, forgetting who she was.
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她不斷在半夜醒過來還忘了自己是誰。
12:08
She was got because she was perceived
to have misused her privilege.
to have misused her privilege.
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她被逮到是因為她被當成濫用權勢，
12:12
And of course, that's a much better thing
to get people for than the things
to get people for than the things
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而且當然了比起我們以前
用來逮人的事由，
用來逮人的事由，
12:15
we used to get people for,
like having children out of wedlock.
like having children out of wedlock.
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像是使小孩子遠離婚姻枷鎖，
這是用來逮人強上許多的事由；
這是用來逮人強上許多的事由；
12:18
But the phrase "misuse of privilege"
is becoming a free pass
is becoming a free pass
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不過濫用權勢這個詞
正要變成一張特許通行證，
正要變成一張特許通行證，
12:21
to tear apart pretty much
anybody we choose to.
anybody we choose to.
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來摧毀極多我們挑出的任何人，
12:25
It's becoming a devalued term,
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它正變成了一個貶低的措辭，
12:27
and it's making us lose
our capacity for empathy
our capacity for empathy
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它正使得我們失去同情心的本能，
12:30
and for distinguishing between serious
and unserious transgressions.
and unserious transgressions.
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以及分辨出界於嚴重
與不嚴重之間的踰矩。
與不嚴重之間的踰矩。
12:36
Justine had 170 Twitter followers,
and so to make it work,
and so to make it work,
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賈絲汀有 170 名推特追隨者，
12:39
she had to be fictionalized.
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所以要讓行動成功的話
她得被虛構出故事，
她得被虛構出故事，
12:41
Word got around that she was the daughter
the mining billionaire Desmond Sacco.
the mining billionaire Desmond Sacco.
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外傳她是礦業億萬富豪
德斯蒙．薩科的女兒 －
德斯蒙．薩科的女兒 －
12:46
[Let us not be fooled by #JustineSacco
her father is a SA mining billionaire.
her father is a SA mining billionaire.
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［我們不要被賈絲汀耍了，
她父親是南非礦業的億萬富豪，
她父親是南非礦業的億萬富豪，
她並不遺憾，她老爸也一樣］。
我以為關於賈絲汀那是真的，
12:50
She's not sorry.
And neither is her father.]
And neither is her father.]
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等到我在一間酒吧跟她碰面了，
我問了她有關她億萬富豪的父親，
我問了她有關她億萬富豪的父親，
12:52
I thought that was true about Justine,
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12:54
until I met her at a bar, and I asked her
about her billionaire father,
about her billionaire father,
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而她說：「我父親是賣地毯的！」。
12:57
and she said, "My father sells carpets."
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12:59
And I think back on
the early days of Twitter,
the early days of Twitter,
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而我回想起在推特早期的日子裡，
13:01
when people would admit
shameful secrets about themselves,
shameful secrets about themselves,
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當有人承認關於自己丟臉的秘事時，
13:04
and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
"Oh my God, I'm exactly the same."
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其他人會說：「我的天呀！
我完全一模一樣耶！」；
我完全一模一樣耶！」；
13:07
These days, the hunt is on
for people's shameful secrets.
for people's shameful secrets.
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這些日子以來搜尋眾人
丟臉的秘事是不停歇的，
丟臉的秘事是不停歇的，
13:11
You can lead a good, ethical life,
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你可以過著良好、有道德的生活，
13:13
but some bad phraseology in a Tweet
can overwhelm it all,
can overwhelm it all,
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但是一些推特裡的惡劣措辭
可以把它給全部淹蓋掉，
可以把它給全部淹蓋掉，
13:18
become a clue to your secret inner evil.
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變成一個你暗藏邪惡秘事的線索。
13:21
Maybe there's two types
of people in the world:
of people in the world:
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也許世界上有著兩種類型的人 －
13:24
those people who favor
humans over ideology,
humans over ideology,
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喜愛人遠過於意識形態的那些人
13:27
and those people who favor
ideology over humans.
ideology over humans.
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和喜愛意識形態遠過於人的那些人，
13:31
I favor humans over ideology,
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我喜愛人多過於意識形態；
13:33
but right now, the ideologues are winning,
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不過現在意識形態奉行者是贏家，
13:36
and they're creating a stage
for constant artificial high dramas
for constant artificial high dramas
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而且他們正在創造一個舞台
給一成不變的虛假大戲，
給一成不變的虛假大戲，
13:41
where everybody's either
a magnificent hero
a magnificent hero
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在那裡每個人可能是令人景仰的英雄，
13:43
or a sickening villain,
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或是讓人厭惡的惡棍，
13:45
even though we know that's not true
about our fellow humans.
about our fellow humans.
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即便如此我們知道有關於我們的
人類同伴那不是真實的。
人類同伴那不是真實的。
13:48
What's true is that
we are clever and stupid;
we are clever and stupid;
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事實是我們是聰明又愚笨的，
13:52
what's true is that we're grey areas.
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事實是我們在灰色地帶。
13:55
The great thing about social media
was how it gave a voice
was how it gave a voice
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有關社交媒體最棒的事情
13:58
to voiceless people,
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是它如何給了說話沒人在意者
能被聽見的聲音，
能被聽見的聲音，
13:59
but we're now creating
a surveillance society,
a surveillance society,
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但是我們現在正在
創造一個監控式社會，
創造一個監控式社會，
14:02
where the smartest way to survive
is to go back to being voiceless.
is to go back to being voiceless.
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在那裡要活下去最聰明的辦法就是
回去做沒有聲音的人。
回去做沒有聲音的人。
14:07
Let's not do that.
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我們千萬不要那樣做！
14:08
Thank you.
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謝謝大家！
14:10
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
14:21
Bruno Giussani: Thank you, Jon.
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布魯諾．裘薩尼：辛苦你了！
14:22
Jon Ronson: Thanks, Bruno.
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強．朗森：謝謝！
14:24
BG: Don't go away.
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裘薩尼：別走開喔，
14:26
What strikes me about Justine's story
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關於賈絲汀的故事震撼到我的是
假如你今天去谷歌搜尋她的名字，
假如你今天去谷歌搜尋她的名字，
14:28
is also the fact that if you
Google her name today,
Google her name today,
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14:31
this story covers the first
100 pages of Google results --
100 pages of Google results --
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也是這個故事佔滿了前 100 頁的
搜尋成果清單的事實，
搜尋成果清單的事實，
14:33
there is nothing else about her.
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再沒有其他任何事情是和她相關的。
14:36
In your book, you mention another story
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在你的書裡面你提到
另一個受害人的故事，
另一個受害人的故事，
14:38
of another victim who actually got
taken on by a reputation management firm,
taken on by a reputation management firm,
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此人實際上是被一間
聲譽管理顧問公司所雇用，
聲譽管理顧問公司所雇用，
14:43
and by creating blogs and posting nice,
innocuous stories about her love for cats
innocuous stories about her love for cats
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透過開創部落格和張貼
有關她對貓咪的愛、 節慶以及餡料
有關她對貓咪的愛、 節慶以及餡料
14:48
and holidays and stuff,
managed to get the story
managed to get the story
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良好、無敗害的文章，
14:51
off the first couple pages of Google
results, but it didn't last long.
results, but it didn't last long.
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3923
企圖讓該故事消失在前幾頁的谷歌搜尋
成果清單上，不過並沒維持多久，
成果清單上，不過並沒維持多久，
14:55
A couple of weeks later, they started
creeping back up to the top result.
creeping back up to the top result.
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幾個禮拜後它們又上升竄回
最上方的搜尋結果，
最上方的搜尋結果，
15:00
Is this a totally lost battle?
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這是一場徹底輸了的戰爭嗎？
朗森：要是你看見了一種不公平
或是不甚明確的霸凌，
或是不甚明確的霸凌，
15:02
Jon Ronson: You know, I think
the very best thing we can do,
the very best thing we can do,
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15:05
if you see a kind of unfair
or an ambiguous shaming,
or an ambiguous shaming,
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4574
我認為我們最好就是把話說出來。
15:09
is to speak up, because I think
the worst thing that happened to Justine
the worst thing that happened to Justine
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3400
因為我認為發生在賈絲汀身上
最慘的事情就是沒有人支持她，
最慘的事情就是沒有人支持她，
15:13
was that nobody supported her --
like, everyone was against her,
like, everyone was against her,
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就像是每一個人都在抵制她，
15:16
and that is profoundly traumatizing,
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那是深深地精神上令人受傷的，
15:18
to be told by tens of thousands of people
that you need to get out.
that you need to get out.
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被成千上萬的人要求辭職。
15:21
But if a shaming happens and there's
a babble of voices, like in a democracy,
a babble of voices, like in a democracy,
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不過要是一件羞辱人的事發生
而有著像在民主國家亂烘烘的聲音，
而有著像在民主國家亂烘烘的聲音，
15:26
where people are discussing it,
I think that's much less damaging.
I think that's much less damaging.
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大家都在討論這件事，
我想那會不傷人得多。
我想那會不傷人得多。
15:29
So I think that's the way forward,
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所以我認為是有再進步的地方，
15:30
but it's hard, because if you do
stand up for somebody,
stand up for somebody,
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2596
但是不容易做到，
因為要是你支持某人，
因為要是你支持某人，
15:33
it's incredibly unpleasant.
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這會是極度令人不開心的事。
15:35
BG: So let's talk about your experience,
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裘薩尼：那麼讓我們來談你的經驗吧，
15:37
because you stood up by writing this book.
302
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2008
因為你透過寫這本書挺身而出，
15:39
By the way, it's mandatory
reading for everybody, okay?
reading for everybody, okay?
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2589
順帶一提這對每個人來說
都是指定讀物對吧，
都是指定讀物對吧，
15:41
You stood up because the book
actually puts the spotlight on shamers.
actually puts the spotlight on shamers.
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4310
你挺身而出因為本書的確把焦點
放在霸凌者的身上，
放在霸凌者的身上，
15:46
And I assume you didn't only
have friendly reactions on Twitter.
have friendly reactions on Twitter.
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而我猜想在推特上你不是
只有友善的回應而已。
只有友善的回應而已。
15:49
JR: It didn't go down that well
with some people.
with some people.
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2680
朗森：我和有些人之間
不是很好誘發反應的，
不是很好誘發反應的，
15:51
(Laughter)
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1001
（笑聲）
15:52
I mean, you don't want
to just concentrate --
to just concentrate --
308
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2104
我是指你不想要只專注在
15:55
because lots of people understood,
and were really nice about the book.
and were really nice about the book.
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3397
因為很多人都知道了、
而且對本書很滿意。
而且對本書很滿意。
15:58
But yeah, for 30 years I've been writing
stories about abuses of power,
stories about abuses of power,
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不過三十年來我已經不斷寫出
有關濫用權力的故事，
有關濫用權力的故事，
16:01
and when I say the powerful people
over there in the military,
over there in the military,
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3280
而當我說有力人士就就在軍隊裡面、
16:05
or in the pharmaceutical industry,
everybody applauds me.
everybody applauds me.
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2768
或是在藥廠行業裡，
每一個人都在讚揚我；
每一個人都在讚揚我；
16:07
As soon as I say, "We are the powerful
people abusing our power now,"
people abusing our power now,"
313
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當我一說了：「我們就是有力人士，
現在正在濫用權力！」，
現在正在濫用權力！」，
16:12
I get people saying,
"Well you must be a racist too."
"Well you must be a racist too."
314
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2724
就有人對我說著：「很好！你必定
是一個種族主義者吧！」
是一個種族主義者吧！」
16:15
BG: So the other night --
yesterday -- we were at dinner,
yesterday -- we were at dinner,
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裘薩尼：另一晚上我們在用
晚餐 － 就是昨天啦，
晚餐 － 就是昨天啦，
16:17
and there were two discussions going on.
316
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1915
有兩個持續進行的討論，
16:19
On one side you were talking
with people around the table --
with people around the table --
317
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3048
這一邊你和同桌的人在聊天
16:22
and that was a nice,
constructive discussion.
constructive discussion.
318
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2163
而且是個愉快、有建設性的討論；
16:24
On the other, every time
you turned to your phone,
you turned to your phone,
319
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2347
在另一邊每次你回看手機
都有著大量的謾罵發言。
都有著大量的謾罵發言。
16:27
there is this deluge of insults.
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1561
16:28
JR: Yeah. This happened last night.
We had like a TED dinner last night.
We had like a TED dinner last night.
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朗森：是啊就發生在昨晚，
我們有個像 TED 大會的晚宴，
我們有個像 TED 大會的晚宴，
16:32
We were chatting and it was lovely
and nice, and I decided to check Twitter.
and nice, and I decided to check Twitter.
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我們一直在聊天而且友善又愉快的，
而我決定去查看一下我的推特，
而我決定去查看一下我的推特，
16:36
Somebody said, "You are
a white supremacist."
a white supremacist."
323
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某人說：「你是個白人至上主義者！」。
16:38
And then I went back and had
a nice conversation with somebody,
a nice conversation with somebody,
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2974
接著我回到聊天裡而且和某人
有著很愉快的對話，
有著很愉快的對話，
接著我回到推特上，
16:41
and then I went back to Twitter,
325
989334
1541
有人說我的存在把世界弄成了
一個更糟糕的地方。
一個更糟糕的地方。
16:42
somebody said my very existence
made the world a worse place.
made the world a worse place.
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3088
16:46
My friend Adam Curtis says
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2747
我的朋友亞當．科提斯說了
16:48
that maybe the Internet is like
a John Carpenter movie from the 1980s,
a John Carpenter movie from the 1980s,
328
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3808
也許網路就像約翰．卡本特
來自八零年代的一部電影，
來自八零年代的一部電影，
16:52
when eventually everyone
will start screaming at each other
will start screaming at each other
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當最終每個人將會開始
監視彼此、射殺彼此，
監視彼此、射殺彼此，
16:55
and shooting each other,
and then eventually everybody
and then eventually everybody
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之後最終每個人會逃離到
比較安全的某個地方。
比較安全的某個地方。
16:58
would flee to somewhere safer,
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我開始在想那確實是個美好的選項！
17:00
and I'm starting to think of that
as a really nice option.
as a really nice option.
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17:04
BG: Jon, thank you.
JR: Thank you, Bruno.
JR: Thank you, Bruno.
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1953
布魯諾：謝謝你！
強：謝謝你布魯諾！
強：謝謝你布魯諾！
17:06
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jon Ronson - Writer, filmmakerJon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession.
Why you should listen
For his latest book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, Jon Ronson spent three years traveling the world and talking to people who'd been subjected to high-profile public shamings. Whatever their transgression, the response was to be faced by an angry mob, as Ronson calls them "collective outrage circles" devoted to tearing down said person from any position of power. It does not, Ronson suggests gently, reflect so well on society as a whole.
In a previous book, The Psychopath Test, Ronson explored the unnerving world of psychopaths -- a group that includes both incarcerated killers and, one of his subjects insists, plenty of CEOs. In his books, films and articles, Ronson explores madness and obsession of all kinds, from the US military's experiments in psychic warfare to the obscene and hate-filled yet Christian rap of the Insane Clown Posse. He wrote a column for the Guardian, hosted an essay program on Radio 4 in the United Kingdom, and contributes to This American Life.
Jon Ronson | Speaker | TED.com