TED2010
Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish
丹鮑伯：愛上一條魚
Filmed:
Readability: 3.6
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主廚丹鮑伯指出，現今很多廚師都面臨了一個難題：如何持續供應魚類餐點？在深入的調查後，他以幽默的方式，講述了他尋找到一條他所喜愛的「可持續提供」的魚的故事。而自從他發現在西班牙，有一種極為美味的魚，以創新的方法養殖成功，他這個美食家又開始享受了美味之戀。
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
So, I've known a lot of fish in my life.
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我一生中接觸過很多魚，
00:20
I've loved only two.
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只有兩種是我的最愛。
00:23
That first one,
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第一種，
00:25
it was more like a passionate affair.
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是一種熱烈的情感，
00:28
It was a beautiful fish:
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那條美麗的魚，
00:30
flavorful, textured, meaty,
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美味、紋理、肉質都是一等，
00:33
a bestseller on the menu.
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是菜單上最暢銷的菜，
00:35
What a fish.
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多麼棒的魚呀！
00:37
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
00:40
Even better,
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更好的是，
00:42
it was farm-raised to the supposed highest standards
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它是由人工養殖場，所培育出可持續提供的
00:45
of sustainability.
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最高標準的魚，
00:48
So you could feel good about selling it.
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賣牠的人也會感到安心。
00:52
I was in a relationship with this beauty
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我曾經沉醉於這美麗的關係中，
00:54
for several months.
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大概維持了幾個月。
00:58
One day, the head of the company called
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有一天，這個公司的高層打電話給我，
01:00
and asked if I'd speak at an event
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希望我能針對這個養殖場持續提供漁源，
01:02
about the farm's sustainability.
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發表一場演說。
01:04
"Absolutely," I said.
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我說：「當然可以。」
01:06
Here was a company trying to solve
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這個公司正是要試圖解決一個
01:09
what's become this unimaginable problem for us chefs:
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對我們廚師來說，無法想像的問題：
01:13
How do we keep fish on our menus?
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如何持續供應魚類餐點？
01:17
For the past 50 years,
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在過去的50年中，
01:20
we've been fishing the seas
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我們從各個海洋中捕魚，
01:22
like we clear-cut forests.
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就像是砍伐樹木，
01:25
It's hard to overstate the destruction.
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我絕不是誇大它的破壞性。
01:30
Ninety percent of large fish, the ones we love --
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但我們喜愛的大型魚類裡，有90%的
01:33
the tunas, the halibuts, the salmons, swordfish --
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鮪魚,大比目魚,鮭魚,劍魚等，
01:36
they've collapsed.
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他們的生態遭受重創，
01:38
There's almost nothing left.
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幾乎沒有剩下多少了。
01:41
So, for better or for worse,
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所以，不管是好是壞，
01:44
aquaculture, fish farming, is going to be a part of our future.
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水產養殖業、人工漁場，都會成為我們未來的一部分。
01:47
A lot of arguments against it:
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有很多針對這個行業的爭論，
01:49
Fish farms pollute -- most of them do anyway --
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因為大部分養殖漁場都會污染環境，
01:52
and they're inefficient. Take tuna,
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而且效率很低。以鮪魚為例，
01:54
a major drawback.
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最主要的弊病是，
01:56
It's got a feed conversion ratio
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養殖鮪魚的飼料轉換率
01:58
of 15 to one.
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是15比1，
02:00
That means it takes fifteen pounds of wild fish
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意思是，你要用15磅的野生魚類當飼料，
02:02
to get you one pound of farm tuna.
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才能養出1磅的養殖鮪魚。
02:06
Not very sustainable.
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漁場不容易經營，
02:08
It doesn't taste very good either.
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魚也不好吃。
02:11
So here, finally,
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最後，
02:13
was a company trying to do it right.
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終於有一家公司想好好做事了，
02:15
I wanted to support them.
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我也想支持他們。
02:18
The day before the event,
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就在那次活動的前一天，
02:20
I called the head of P.R. for the company.
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我聯繫了公司的公關部門負責人，
02:23
Let's call him Don.
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就讓我們暫且稱呼他為“唐”吧...
02:27
"Don," I said, "just to get the facts straight, you guys are famous
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我說：“唐閣下，是這樣的，你們的人工養殖漁場
02:30
for farming so far out to sea, you don't pollute."
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最有名之處就是設置在遠洋，而且不會產生污染。"
02:33
"That's right," he said. "We're so far out,
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他回應：“你說的對。我們作業的地點很遠，
02:36
the waste from our fish gets distributed,
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我們漁場所產生的污染物都被稀釋掉了，
02:39
not concentrated."
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不會集中殘留在一個地方。"
02:41
And then he added,
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然後他補充，
02:43
"We're basically a world unto ourselves.
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“那是我們自己的漁場，
02:47
That feed conversion ratio? 2.5 to one," he said.
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飼料轉換率？2.5比1，” 他說。
02:50
"Best in the business."
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“業界中最好的。”
02:52
2.5 to one, great.
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2.5比 1，很好
02:54
"2.5 what? What are you feeding?"
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“2.5比什麼呢？你們餵什麼？”
02:56
"Sustainable proteins," he said.
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他回答道： “可持續性蛋白質。”
02:59
"Great," I said. Got off the phone.
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“很好。”然後我們掛了電話。
03:02
And that night, I was lying in bed, and I thought:
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結果那晚， 我躺在床上想：
03:05
What the hell is a sustainable protein?
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可持續性蛋白質是什麼鬼東西呀？
03:07
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:12
So the next day, just before the event, I called Don.
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所以第二天，就在那個活動之前，我打電話給唐，
03:14
I said, "Don, what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
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我問道："唐閣下，可持續性蛋白質大概是什麼東西啊？"
03:18
He said he didn't know. He would ask around.
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他說他不知道，他會去問問周圍的人。
03:21
Well, I got on the phone with a few people in the company;
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然後，我和這個公司裡的一些人通了電話，
03:23
no one could give me a straight answer
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但是沒有人能給我一個明確的答案。
03:26
until finally, I got on the phone
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直到最後， 我和他們的首席生物學家
03:29
with the head biologist.
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通上了電話。
03:31
Let's call him Don too.
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讓我也暫且叫他“唐"...
03:33
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
03:37
"Don," I said,
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我說："唐，"
03:39
"what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
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你能否舉例說明一下，可持續性蛋白質是些什麼東西嗎？"
03:42
Well, he mentioned some algaes
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然後，他提到一些藻類，
03:44
and some fish meals,
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還有一些魚肉，
03:46
and then he said chicken pellets.
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然後他提到雞肉丸，
03:48
I said, "Chicken pellets?"
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我說：“雞肉丸？“
03:50
He said, "Yeah, feathers, skin,
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他說：「是的，羽毛、雞皮、
03:52
bone meal, scraps,
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骨頭、剩料等，
03:54
dried and processed into feed."
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被曬乾加工後做成飼料。”
03:57
I said, "What percentage
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我說：“雞在你們的飼料中
03:59
of your feed is chicken?"
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所占的比例是多少？”
04:02
Thinking, you know, two percent.
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你知道，我心裡想大概是2%吧。
04:05
"Well, it's about 30 percent," he said.
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結果他說：“嗯，大概佔30%，”
04:08
I said, "Don, what's sustainable
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我說，“唐閣下，用雞餵魚，
04:11
about feeding chicken to fish?"
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這算什麼可持續性？”
04:13
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:18
There was a long pause on the line,
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電話的那邊安靜了很長時間，
04:21
and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world."
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然後他說，“世界上的雞真的太多了。”
04:24
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:30
I fell out of love with this fish.
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於是，我不再愛這魚了。
04:32
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:34
No, not because I'm some self-righteous,
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不，不是因為我是個自以為正直的
04:37
goody-two shoes foodie.
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偽善美食家，
04:39
I actually am.
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其實我是這樣的人沒錯。
04:41
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:43
No, I actually fell out of love with this fish because, I swear to God,
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不，我不再愛這個魚了，是因為，我向上帝發誓，
04:45
after that conversation, the fish tasted like chicken.
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在那次對話之後，那個魚嚐起來有雞的味道。
04:48
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:58
This second fish,
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這第二條魚，
05:01
it's a different kind of love story.
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它是另一種不同的愛情故事，
05:04
It's the romantic kind,
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是很浪漫的那種，
05:07
the kind where the more you get to know your fish,
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你愈了解那種魚，
05:10
you love the fish.
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你就會愈愛牠。
05:13
I first ate it at a restaurant
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我第一次是在西班牙南部的一個餐廳，
05:15
in southern Spain.
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吃到這種魚。
05:17
A journalist friend had been talking about this fish for a long time.
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有一個記者朋友已經和我提到這種魚很多次了，
05:20
She kind of set us up.
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她可以說是媒人。
05:22
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:24
It came to the table
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一條白色、
05:26
a bright, almost shimmering, white color.
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鮮亮透光的魚被端上桌來，
05:31
The chef had overcooked it.
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廚師煮得太熟了，
05:34
Like twice over.
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熟過頭二倍之多，
05:37
Amazingly, it was still delicious.
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但神奇的是，它還是很好吃。
05:40
Who can make a fish taste good
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誰可以做出這樣好吃的魚，
05:44
after it's been overcooked?
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而且還是煮過頭的魚？
05:46
I can't,
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我不能，
05:48
but this guy can.
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但這位廚師可以。
05:50
Let's call him Miguel --
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讓我們叫他米格爾，
05:52
actually his name is Miguel.
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其實他的名字就是米格爾。
05:54
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:57
And no, he didn't cook the fish, and he's not a chef,
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但是，他不是煮魚的人，他也不是個廚師，
05:59
at least in the way that you and I understand it.
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至少他不是你我認知的那種廚師，
06:03
He's a biologist
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他是在薇塔拉帕爾馬的
06:05
at Veta La Palma.
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一個生物學家。
06:07
It's a fish farm in the southwestern corner of Spain.
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薇塔拉帕爾馬是位於西班牙西南角的養殖漁場，
06:10
It's at the tip of the Guadalquivir river.
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就在高達爾克維爾河的末端。
06:13
Until the 1980s,
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直到1980年代，
06:15
the farm was in the hands of the Argentinians.
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這個漁場還是由阿根廷人管轄，
06:18
They raised beef cattle
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他們在這裡養牛，
06:20
on what was essentially wetlands.
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因為這裡原本是濕地。
06:23
They did it by draining the land.
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當時他們把水抽走，
06:25
They built this intricate series of canals,
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然後建造了錯綜複雜的運河，
06:28
and they pushed water off the land and out into the river.
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他們接著把這裡的水排入河流。
06:32
Well, they couldn't make it work,
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但是，他們沒有成功，
06:34
not economically.
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我是指經濟方面；
06:36
And ecologically, it was a disaster.
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在環境方面，則造成了巨大的災難，
06:39
It killed like 90 percent of the birds,
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差不多90%的鳥類都消失了，
06:41
which, for this place, is a lot of birds.
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原本這裡的鳥類是很多的。
06:44
And so in 1982,
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到了1982年，
06:46
a Spanish company with an environmental conscience
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一家具有環保意識的的西班牙公司，
06:48
purchased the land.
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購買了這塊地。
06:50
What did they do?
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他們做了什麼？
06:52
They reversed the flow of water.
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他們逆轉了水流的方向，
06:54
They literally flipped the switch.
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翻轉了開關，
06:56
Instead of pushing water out,
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把原本設計要排水的渠道，
06:58
they used the channels to pull water back in.
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反過來把水引進來，
07:00
They flooded the canals.
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用水填滿了這些運河，
07:02
They created a 27,000-acre fish farm --
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然後建立了一個2萬7千英畝的漁場，
07:06
bass, mullet,
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裡頭有鱸魚、梭魚、
07:08
shrimp, eel --
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蝦、鰻魚等。
07:11
and in the process, Miguel and this company
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在這個過程中，米格爾和這個公司
07:14
completely reversed the ecological destruction.
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挽救了這次生態災難。
07:18
The farm's incredible.
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這個漁場真的很棒！
07:20
I mean, you've never seen anything like this.
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我的意思是說，你從沒見過類似這樣的地方，
07:23
You stare out at a horizon
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當你凝視著一萬英哩之外
07:26
that is a million miles away,
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廣闊的地平線，
07:28
and all you see are flooded canals
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你眼前盡是充滿水的運河，
07:30
and this thick, rich marshland.
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還有富饒的沼澤溼地。
07:35
I was there not long ago with Miguel.
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不久前，我和米格爾去過那兒，
07:38
He's an amazing guy,
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他是個了不起的人，
07:41
like three parts Charles Darwin and one part Crocodile Dundee.
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¾是達爾文，¼是鱷魚先生鄧迪。
07:44
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
07:46
Okay? There we are slogging through the wetlands,
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我們步履艱難地進入了濕地，
07:50
and I'm panting and sweating, got mud up to my knees,
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我是氣喘吁吁加汗流浹背，淤泥淹到了我的膝蓋，
07:52
and Miguel's calmly conducting a biology lecture.
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米格爾則是平心靜氣地對我說著他的生物學。
07:56
Here, he's pointing out a rare Black-shouldered Kite.
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他一下指著一隻罕見的黑肩鳶，
07:59
Now, he's mentioning the mineral needs of phytoplankton.
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一下又提到可以滿足礦物質需求的浮游植物，
08:03
And here, here he sees a grouping pattern
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接著他又看到一組圖案，
08:06
that reminds him of the Tanzanian Giraffe.
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讓他聯想起坦桑尼亞的長頸鹿。
08:11
It turns out, Miguel spent the better part of his career
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原來，米格爾曾經花了很長時間，
08:14
in the Mikumi National Park in Africa.
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在非洲的米庫米國家公園工作。
08:17
I asked him how he became
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我問他是怎麼成為
08:19
such an expert on fish.
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一位魚類專家的，
08:21
He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish.
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他說： “魚？我不了解牠們，
08:24
I'm an expert in relationships."
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我只是一個生態關係專家。”
08:27
And then he's off, launching into more talk
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然後他談起了更多
08:29
about rare birds and algaes
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關於稀有鳥類和藻類，
08:31
and strange aquatic plants.
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還有特殊的水生植物。
08:33
And don't get me wrong, that was really fascinating, you know,
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請不要誤解，那樣的談話真的很吸引人，
08:36
the biotic community unplugged, kind of thing.
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他說的生態社群這一類的事情，
08:39
It's great, but I was in love.
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都很好， 但是我心另有所屬，
08:42
And my head was swooning over that
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我腦中始終惦記著那條
08:45
overcooked piece of delicious fish I had the night before.
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我前一晚品嚐過，被煮過頭的美味的魚。
08:48
So I interrupted him. I said,
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所以我打斷他，我說：
08:50
"Miguel, what makes your fish taste so good?"
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"米格爾，你的魚為什麼那麼好吃?"
08:52
He pointed at the algae.
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他指向藻類，
08:54
"I know, dude, the algae, the phytoplankton,
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“我知道， 兄弟，藻類、浮游植物、
08:57
the relationships: It's amazing.
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生態關係，這些都很神奇，
09:00
But what are your fish eating?
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但是你餵魚吃什麼？
09:02
What's the feed conversion ratio?"
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飼料轉換率是多少？”
09:05
Well, he goes on to tell me
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然後，他繼續告訴我，
09:09
it's such a rich system
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這是一個很富饒的系統，
09:11
that the fish are eating what they'd be eating in the wild.
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這些魚吃的就是它們在野外吃的東西
09:14
The plant biomass, the phytoplankton,
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植物、浮游植物、
09:17
the zooplankton, it's what feeds the fish.
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浮游生物等，都是魚的飼料。
09:19
The system is so healthy,
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這個系統非常健康，
09:21
it's totally self-renewing.
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會進行自我更新，
09:23
There is no feed.
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不需要任何飼料。
09:26
Ever heard of a farm that doesn't feed its animals?
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有聽說過哪一個農場不需要餵動物飼料的嗎？
09:33
Later that day, I was driving around this property with Miguel,
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那天稍晚時，我和米格爾開著車在附近兜風，
09:35
and I asked him, I said, "For a place that seems so natural,
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我問他，“像這樣一個自然的地方，
09:39
unlike like any farm I'd ever been at,
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不像其它任何一個我曾經見過的農場，
09:44
how do you measure success?"
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你如何衡量成功？"
09:47
At that moment, it was as if
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就在那時，
09:50
a film director called for a set change.
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彷彿有一位電影導演突然要求改變場景，
09:52
And we rounded the corner
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我們轉過彎，
09:54
and saw the most amazing sight:
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看到最美的畫面，
09:56
thousands and thousands of pink flamingos,
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成千上萬的粉紅色火鶴，
09:59
a literal pink carpet for as far as you could see.
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就像一張粉紅色的地毯舖向遙遠的盡頭。
10:03
"That's success," he said.
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他說，“那就是成功。
10:06
"Look at their bellies, pink.
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看看他們的腹部，粉紅色的，
10:08
They're feasting."
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他們正在享受盛宴。“
10:10
Feasting? I was totally confused.
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盛宴？我不知道他在說什麼。
10:12
I said, "Miguel, aren't they feasting on your fish?"
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我說，“米格爾，他們的盛宴不正是你的魚嗎？”
10:14
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:16
"Yes," he said.
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“正是," 他說，
10:18
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:24
"We lose 20 percent of our fish
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“鳥類會吃掉我們20%的魚，
10:26
and fish eggs to birds.
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還有魚卵，
10:30
Well, last year, this property
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而且，去年這個漁場裡
10:32
had 600,000 birds on it,
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有60萬隻鳥，
10:34
more than 250 different species.
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有超過250種不同的種類。
10:36
It's become, today, the largest
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今天，這裡已經成為全歐洲
10:39
and one of the most important
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最大且最重要的
10:42
private bird sanctuaries in all of Europe."
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私人鳥類自然保護區之一。"
10:46
I said, "Miguel, isn't a thriving bird population
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我說，“米格爾，在養殖漁場裡，
10:49
like the last thing you want on a fish farm?"
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不是最不想見到這麼多鳥嗎？”
10:51
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:53
He shook his head, no.
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“不“，他搖搖頭，
10:55
He said, "We farm extensively,
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他說,“我們養殖很多生物，
10:58
not intensively.
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不是集中養殖某一種。
11:01
This is an ecological network.
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這是一個生態網絡，
11:04
The flamingos eat the shrimp.
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這些火鶴吃掉蝦子，
11:06
The shrimp eat the phytoplankton.
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蝦子吃浮游動物；
11:08
So the pinker the belly,
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所以他們的腹部愈粉紅，
11:10
the better the system."
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就代表這個生態越好。"
11:13
Okay, so let's review:
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好的，讓我們重新審視一下,
11:15
a farm that doesn't feed its animals,
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這個農場不需要餵食動物，
11:18
and a farm that measures its success
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它衡量成功的方式
11:21
on the health of its predators.
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是根據它的掠食者的健康狀態。
11:23
A fish farm, but also a bird sanctuary.
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一個漁場，同時也是個鳥類庇護所，
11:26
Oh, and by the way, those flamingos,
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喔，而且那些火鶴，
11:28
they shouldn't even be there in the first place.
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他們原先就不應該出現在那裡，
11:30
They brood in a town
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牠們的窩巢是在
11:32
150 miles away,
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240公里外的地方，
11:34
where the soil conditions
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那裡的土壤狀況
11:36
are better for building nests.
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較適合築巢，
11:38
Every morning, they fly
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他們每天早上
11:40
150 miles into the farm.
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都要飛行240公里來到這個漁場，
11:44
And every evening, they fly 150 miles back.
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到了晚上，再飛行240公里回家。
11:47
(Laughter)
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（笑聲)
11:54
They do that because they're able to follow
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因為他們這樣才能
11:57
the broken white line
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順著A92號
11:59
of highway A92.
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高速公路的白線飛...
12:01
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:03
No kidding.
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這不是開玩笑。
12:05
I was imagining a "March of the Penguins" thing,
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我一直在腦海中想像類似企鵝行進的事，
12:08
so I looked at Miguel.
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我看著米格爾，
12:10
I said, "Miguel, do they fly
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我說，“米格爾，它們飛行240公里
12:12
150 miles to the farm,
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來到漁場，
12:14
and then do they fly
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然後它們晚上
12:16
150 miles back at night?
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再飛240公里回去嗎？
12:18
Do they do that for the children?"
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它們這麼做是為了孩子嗎？"
12:21
He looked at me like I had just quoted a Whitney Houston song.
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他看著我就像是我剛剛引用了惠特尼休斯頓的歌，
12:24
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:28
He said, "No; they do it because the food's better."
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他說，“不，他們這麼做是因為這裡的食物更好。”
12:31
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:33
I didn't mention the skin of my beloved fish,
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我還沒有提到我最愛的魚的皮吧？
12:41
which was delicious -- and I don't like fish skin;
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真的是很美味，但我以前不喜歡魚皮，
12:43
I don't like it seared, I don't like it crispy.
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我不喜歡烤的，也不喜歡脆的，
12:46
It's that acrid, tar-like flavor.
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魚皮有腥味，像柏油的味道，
12:50
I almost never cook with it.
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我從不把它和魚一起烹煮。
12:53
Yet, when I tasted it at that restaurant in southern Spain,
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但是，當我在西班牙南部的那個餐館嚐到它的時候，
12:56
it tasted not at all like fish skin.
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嚐起來一點都不像是魚皮，
12:59
It tasted sweet and clean,
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它嚐起來微甜而且乾淨，
13:02
like you were taking a bite of the ocean.
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就像你嚐了一口海洋自然的味道一樣。
13:05
I mentioned that to Miguel, and he nodded.
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我向米格爾提到我的想法，他點點頭，
13:07
He said, "The skin acts like a sponge.
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他說，“魚皮的作用就像是海綿，
13:09
It's the last defense before anything enters the body.
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它是阻止物質進入到體內的最後的防線，
13:12
It evolved to soak up impurities."
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它的作用是吸收雜質，"
13:14
And then he added,
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他繼續說,
13:16
"But our water has no impurities."
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“但是我們的水沒有雜質。”
13:22
OK. A farm that doesn't feed its fish,
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好的。這個漁場不需要餵養它的魚，
13:26
a farm that measures its success
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它衡量成功的方式，
13:29
by the success of its predators.
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是看它的掠食者是否成功生存。
13:31
And then I realized when he says,
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然後我發現，當他說
13:33
"A farm that has no impurities,"
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這個漁場沒有雜質時，
13:36
he made a big understatement,
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他說得其實太保守了，
13:38
because the water that flows through that farm
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因為在漁場中流過的水，
13:40
comes in from the Guadalquivir River.
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是來自高達爾克維爾河，
13:43
It's a river that carries with it
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那條河中含有
13:45
all the things that rivers tend to carry these days:
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現在所有的河流都有的成份，
13:48
chemical contaminants,
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像是化學污染物及
13:50
pesticide runoff.
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農藥等，
13:52
And when it works its way through the system
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當河水進入這個系統，
13:55
and leaves,
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之後再離開時，
13:57
the water is cleaner than when it entered.
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水質會變得比來時更乾淨。
13:59
The system is so healthy, it purifies the water.
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這個系統很健康，它可以過濾水，
14:03
So, not just a farm that doesn't feed its animals,
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所以，這個漁場不只是不餵食動物，
14:05
not just a farm that measures its success
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也不只是根據掠食者的健康狀況
14:08
by the health of its predators,
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來衡量它的成功，
14:10
but a farm that's literally a water purification plant --
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它還是一個污水淨化廠，
14:16
and not just for those fish,
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不只是為那些魚淨化水質，
14:19
but for you and me as well.
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更是為了你和我。
14:21
Because when that water leaves, it dumps out into the Atlantic.
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因為當水離開這裡時，它會流入大西洋，
14:26
A drop in the ocean, I know,
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雖然我知道那是滄海一粟，
14:28
but I'll take it, and so should you,
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但是我很重視它，而且你們也應該重視，
14:31
because this love story,
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因為這個愛的故事，
14:35
however romantic,
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不但浪漫，
14:37
is also instructive.
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而且有教育意義。
14:39
You might say it's a recipe
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你也許會說它是
14:41
for the future of good food,
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未來美食的食譜，
14:43
whether we're talking about bass or beef cattle.
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不管我們是在說鱸魚還是牛肉，
14:47
What we need now is
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我們現在需要的是，
14:49
a radically new conception of agriculture,
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一個全新的農業概念，
14:52
one in which the food actually tastes good.
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能夠培養出真正美食的農業概念。
14:54
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
14:56
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
15:02
But for a lot people,
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但是對很多人來說，
15:04
that's a bit too radical.
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這有點激進。
15:07
We're not realists, us foodies;
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我們美食家不是現實主義者，
15:09
we're lovers.
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我們是美食愛好者。
15:11
We love farmers' markets,
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我們愛農夫們自己籌組的市場，
15:13
we love small family farms,
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我們愛小型的家庭農場，
15:16
we talk about local food,
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我們談論本地的食物，
15:18
we eat organic.
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我們吃有機食品。
15:21
And when you suggest these are the things
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而當你提到這樣做
15:23
that will ensure the future of good food,
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才能保證未來有美好的食物時，
15:27
someone, somewhere stands up and says,
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某個地方的某人就會站起來說，
15:29
"Hey guy, I love pink flamingos,
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"嘿，我愛粉紅色的火鶴，
15:33
but how are you going to feed the world?"
333
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但是你打算怎麼填飽世人的肚子？"
15:36
How are you going to feed the world?
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怎麼填飽世人的肚子？
15:39
Can I be honest?
335
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我可以坦白的說嗎？
15:41
I don't love that question.
336
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我不喜歡你的問題，
15:44
No, not because we already produce
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不，不是因為我們已經生產了
15:46
enough calories to more than feed the world.
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遠遠超出我們這個世界需要的卡路里，
15:49
One billion people will go hungry today.
339
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而今天仍有十億人在餓著肚子。
15:52
One billion -- that's more than ever before --
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十億--史上最多的人數，
15:56
because of gross inequalities in distribution,
341
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根本原因在於總體上的分配不平衡，
15:59
not tonnage.
342
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不是數量多寡的問題。
16:02
Now, I don't love this question because it's determined the logic
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我不喜歡這個問題，是因為他假定了一個
16:04
of our food system for the last 50 years.
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存在於過去五十年的食物系統的邏輯，
16:07
Feed grain to herbivores,
345
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就是把穀物餵給食草動物，
16:10
pesticides to monocultures, chemicals to soil,
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在單一品種作物上施打農藥，在土壤上灑化學藥劑，
16:12
chicken to fish,
347
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拿鷄餵魚...
16:15
and all along agribusiness
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然後各類農業開發企業
16:18
has simply asked,
349
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就會問：
16:20
"If we're feeding more people more cheaply,
350
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“如果我們用更便宜的方法養活更多的人，
16:22
how terrible could that be?"
351
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有什麼不對的呢？”
16:25
That's been the motivation,
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這就是動機，
16:27
it's been the justification:
353
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也是合理的藉口，
16:29
it's been the business plan
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這已經成了美國農業的
16:32
of American agriculture.
355
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營運計畫。
16:34
We should call it what it is:
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我們應該為它正名，
16:36
a business in liquidation,
357
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這是快要倒閉的生意，
16:39
a business that's quickly eroding
358
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這種生意快速地侵蝕了我們的
16:42
ecological capital that makes that very production possible.
359
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生態資本，只為了大量生產。
16:45
That's not a business,
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那不是生意，
16:47
and it isn't agriculture.
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也不是農業。
16:49
Our breadbasket is threatened today,
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今日我們的存糧正受到嚴重威脅，
16:52
not because of diminishing supply,
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不是因為供給的遞減，
16:54
but because of diminishing resources.
364
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而是因為資源的遞減。
16:57
Not by the latest combine and tractor invention,
365
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存糧的增加不能只靠最新發明的收割機與拖拉機，
17:00
but by fertile land;
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而是要有肥沃的土壤；
17:02
not by pumps, but by fresh water;
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不能只靠幫浦，而是要有新鮮的水源；
17:05
not by chainsaws, but by forests;
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不能只靠電鋸，而是要有森林；
17:08
and not by fishing boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.
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不能只靠漁船和漁網，而是要有魚在海裡游。
17:11
Want to feed the world?
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怎麼填飽世人的肚子？
17:13
Let's start by asking: How are we going to feed ourselves?
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我們該先問：怎麼填飽自己的肚子？
17:17
Or better: How can we create conditions
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或者更進一步問，怎麼建立一種環境，
17:20
that enable every community
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可以讓每一個物種
17:23
to feed itself?
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養活自己？
17:25
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
17:32
To do that,
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要做到那樣，
17:34
don't look at the agribusiness model for the future.
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就不要指望未來還沿用現在的農業模型，
17:37
It's really old, and it's tired.
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它已經過時了，而且很疲乏了，
17:39
It's high on capital, chemistry and machines,
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它過度依賴資金、化學和機械，
17:43
and it's never produced anything really good to eat.
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而且它生產不出來真正好的食物。
17:48
Instead, let's look to the ecological model.
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相反的，讓我們看看生態系統，
17:52
That's the one that relies on two billion years
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這個系統已經實地演練過
17:55
of on-the-job experience.
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20億年了。
17:58
Look to Miguel,
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看看米格爾，
18:00
farmers like Miguel.
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像米格爾這樣的農民，
18:02
Farms that aren't worlds unto themselves;
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他們的農場不是只屬於自己，
18:05
farms that restore instead of deplete;
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他們能自我恢復，而不單只是消耗資源而已；
18:10
farms that farm extensively
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他們養殖很多物種，
18:12
instead of just intensively;
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而不是集中養殖單一物種；
18:14
farmers that are not just producers,
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農民不再只是生產者，
18:17
but experts in relationships.
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而是生態關係專家，
18:19
Because they're the ones
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因為他們同時也是
18:21
that are experts in flavor, too.
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美味的專家。
18:24
And if I'm going to be really honest,
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如果要我說實話，
18:26
they're a better chef than I'll ever be.
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他們是比我更好的廚師。
18:29
You know, I'm okay with that,
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我可以接受他們比我優秀，
18:32
because if that's the future of good food, it's going to be delicious.
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因為如果未來的優質食物是如此，那肯定是非常美味的。
18:35
Thank you.
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謝謝大家。
18:37
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - ChefDan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.
Why you should listen
Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.
Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.
In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com