TEDGlobal 2013
Elizabeth Loftus: How reliable is your memory?
Elizabet Loftus (Elizabeth Loftus): Fikcija pamćenja
Filmed:
Readability: 4.7
4,637,270 views
Psiholog Elizabet Loftus proučava sećanja. Tačnije, proučava lažna sećanja, kada se ljudi sećaju onoga što se nije desilo ili pamte drugačije od onog što je bilo. To je učestalije nego što možda mislite i Loftusova deli sa nama neke zapanjujuće priče i podatke, i otvara neka važna etička pitanja o kojima bi trebalo da razmislimo.
Elizabeth Loftus - False memories scholar
Memory-manipulation expert Elizabeth Loftus explains how our memories might not be what they seem -- and how implanted memories can have real-life repercussions. Full bio
Memory-manipulation expert Elizabeth Loftus explains how our memories might not be what they seem -- and how implanted memories can have real-life repercussions. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'd like to tell you about a legal case that I worked on
0
509
4332
Želela bih da vam ispričam
o pravnom slučaju na kom sam radila,
o pravnom slučaju na kom sam radila,
00:16
involving a man named Steve Titus.
1
4841
3563
u kom je učestvovao čovek
po imenu Stiv Tajtus.
po imenu Stiv Tajtus.
00:20
Titus was a restaurant manager.
2
8404
3029
On je bio upravnik restorana.
00:23
He was 31 years old, he lived in Seattle, Washington,
3
11433
4090
Imao je 31 godinu, živeo u Sijetlu,
država Vašington,
država Vašington,
00:27
he was engaged to Gretchen,
4
15523
1895
bio veren devojkom Grečen,
00:29
about to be married, she was the love of his life.
5
17418
2948
trebalo je da se venčaju,
bila je ljubav njegovog života.
bila je ljubav njegovog života.
00:32
And one night, the couple went out
6
20366
2284
Jedne večeri su izašli
00:34
for a romantic restaurant meal.
7
22650
3005
na romantičnu večeru u restoran.
00:37
They were on their way home,
8
25655
1648
Bili su na putu kući
00:39
and they were pulled over by a police officer.
9
27303
2950
i zaustavio ih je policajac.
00:42
You see, Titus' car sort of resembled
10
30253
3317
Vidite, Tajtusov auto je ličio
00:45
a car that was driven earlier in the evening
11
33570
3887
na jedan auto koji je vozio,
ranije te večeri,
ranije te večeri,
00:49
by a man who raped a female hitchhiker,
12
37457
3406
čovek koji je silovao
jednu ženu koja je stopirala,
jednu ženu koja je stopirala,
00:52
and Titus kind of resembled that rapist.
13
40863
3594
a Tajtus je ličio na tog čoveka.
00:56
So the police took a picture of Titus,
14
44457
2578
Policija ga je fotografisala,
00:59
they put it in a photo lineup,
15
47035
2767
stavila fotografiju u niz,
01:01
they later showed it to the victim,
16
49802
2160
pokazala ju je kasnije žrtvi
01:03
and she pointed to Titus' photo.
17
51962
2160
koja je pokazala baš tu fotografiju.
01:06
She said, "That one's the closest."
18
54122
3621
Rekla je: "Ovaj je najsličniji."
01:09
The police and the prosecution proceeded with a trial,
19
57743
3888
Policija i tužilaštvo
su pokrenuli proces,
su pokrenuli proces,
01:13
and when Steve Titus was put on trial for rape,
20
61631
3341
i kada je Stivu Tajtusu
suđeno za silovanje,
suđeno za silovanje,
01:16
the rape victim got on the stand
21
64972
2096
žrtva je svedočila
01:19
and said, "I'm absolutely positive that's the man."
22
67068
4342
i rekla: "Potpuno sam sigurna
da je to taj čovek."
da je to taj čovek."
01:23
And Titus was convicted.
23
71410
2926
I Tajtus je osuđen.
01:26
He proclaimed his innocence,
24
74336
1974
Objavio je svoju nevinost,
01:28
his family screamed at the jury,
25
76310
2582
njegova porodica je vrištala na porotu,
01:30
his fiancée collapsed on the floor sobbing,
26
78892
2871
verenica se, jecajući, srušila na pod,
01:33
and Titus is taken away to jail.
27
81763
3395
a Tajtus je odveden u zatvor.
01:37
So what would you do at this point?
28
85158
3458
Šta biste vi uradili
u tom trenutku?
u tom trenutku?
01:40
What would you do?
29
88616
1636
Šta biste uradili?
01:42
Well, Titus lost complete faith in the legal system,
30
90252
3768
Pa, Tajtus je potpuno izgubio veru
u pravni sistem,
u pravni sistem,
01:46
and yet he got an idea.
31
94020
2032
a ipak je imao ideju.
01:48
He called up the local newspaper,
32
96052
2431
Pozvao je lokalne novine,
01:50
he got the interest of an investigative journalist,
33
98483
3387
zainteresovao jednog
novinara istraživača,
novinara istraživača,
01:53
and that journalist actually found the real rapist,
34
101870
4736
koji je pronašao pravog silovatelja,
01:58
a man who ultimately confessed to this rape,
35
106606
3353
čoveka koji je na kraju
priznao ovo silovanje,
priznao ovo silovanje,
02:01
a man who was thought to have committed 50 rapes
36
109959
3292
čoveka za kog se smatralo
da je počinio 50 silovanja
da je počinio 50 silovanja
02:05
in that area,
37
113251
1332
u ovoj oblasti,
02:06
and when this information was given to the judge,
38
114583
3174
i kada su te informacije date sudiji,
02:09
the judge set Titus free.
39
117757
2936
Tajtus je bio oslobođen.
02:12
And really, that's where this case should have ended.
40
120693
4031
Stvarno, tu je slučaj
trebalo da se završi.
trebalo da se završi.
02:16
It should have been over.
41
124724
1123
Trebalo je da se završi.
02:17
Titus should have thought of this as a horrible year,
42
125847
2520
Tajtus je trebalo da ovo smatra
užasnom godinom,
užasnom godinom,
02:20
a year of accusation and trial, but over.
43
128367
3836
godinom optužbi i suđenja,
ali završenom.
ali završenom.
02:24
It didn't end that way.
44
132203
2047
Nije se tako završilo.
02:26
Titus was so bitter.
45
134250
2678
Tajtus je bio toliko ogorčen.
02:28
He'd lost his job. He couldn't get it back.
46
136928
2580
Izgubio je posao, nije mogao
da ga vrati.
da ga vrati.
02:31
He lost his fiancée.
47
139508
1843
Izgubio je verenicu.
02:33
She couldn't put up with his persistent anger.
48
141351
2906
Nije mogla da trpi njegov uporni bes.
02:36
He lost his entire savings,
49
144257
2146
Izgubio je celu ušteđevinu,
02:38
and so he decided to file a lawsuit
50
146403
2858
pa je odlučio da pokrene parnicu
02:41
against the police and others whom he felt
51
149261
2281
protiv policije i ostalih
za koje je mislio
za koje je mislio
02:43
were responsible for his suffering.
52
151542
2319
da su odgovorni za njegovu patnju.
02:45
And that's when I really started working on this case,
53
153861
4713
Tada sam stvarno počela
da radim na ovom slučaju,
da radim na ovom slučaju,
02:50
trying to figure out
54
158574
1961
pokušavajući da utvrdim
02:52
how did that victim go from
55
160535
2074
kako je žrtva došla sa
02:54
"That one's the closest"
56
162609
1528
"Taj je najsličniji"
02:56
to "I'm absolutely positive that's the guy."
57
164137
4750
do "Potpuno sam sigurna da je on".
03:00
Well, Titus was consumed with his civil case.
58
168887
3279
Tajtusa je ovaj slučaj progutao.
03:04
He spent every waking moment thinking about it,
59
172166
3034
Svakog trenutka je o njemu razmišljao
03:07
and just days before he was to have his day in court,
60
175200
4151
i nekoliko dana pre suđenja,
03:11
he woke up in the morning,
61
179351
2219
probudio se ujutru,
03:13
doubled over in pain,
62
181570
1808
presavio se od bola
03:15
and died of a stress-related heart attack.
63
183378
2694
i umro od srčanog udara
izazvanog stresom.
izazvanog stresom.
03:18
He was 35 years old.
64
186072
3187
Imao je 35 godina.
03:21
So I was asked to work on Titus' case
65
189259
4810
Pozvana sam da radim
na ovom slučaju
na ovom slučaju
03:26
because I'm a psychological scientist.
66
194069
2515
jer sam psiholog.
03:28
I study memory. I've studied memory for decades.
67
196584
3827
Proučavam pamćenje već decenijama.
03:32
And if I meet somebody on an airplane --
68
200411
3389
I ako upoznam nekoga u avionu -
03:35
this happened on the way over to Scotland --
69
203800
2096
ovo se desilo i na putu za Škotsku -
03:37
if I meet somebody on an airplane,
70
205896
1830
ako upoznam nekoga u avionu,
03:39
and we ask each other, "What do you do? What do you do?"
71
207726
3045
i pitamo jedno drugo:
"Čime se bavite?"
"Čime se bavite?"
03:42
and I say "I study memory,"
72
210771
1451
i kažem "Proučavam pamćenje",
03:44
they usually want to tell me how they have trouble remembering names,
73
212222
3380
oni obično žele da mi kažu
kako imaju poteškoća da zapamte imena
kako imaju poteškoća da zapamte imena
03:47
or they've got a relative who's got Alzheimer's
74
215602
2799
ili imaju rođaka koji pati
od Alchajmerove bolesti
od Alchajmerove bolesti
03:50
or some kind of memory problem,
75
218416
2065
ili nekog problema sa pamćenjem,
03:52
but I have to tell them
76
220481
2216
ali moram da im kažem
03:54
I don't study when people forget.
77
222697
3505
da ne proučavam ono kad
ljudi zaborave.
ljudi zaborave.
03:58
I study the opposite: when they remember,
78
226202
3002
Proučavam suprotno:
kada se sećaju,
kada se sećaju,
04:01
when they remember things that didn't happen
79
229204
2753
stvari koje se nisu desile
04:03
or remember things that were different
80
231957
1965
ili pamte stvari drugačijim
04:05
from the way they really were.
81
233922
2025
nego što su zaista bile.
04:07
I study false memories.
82
235947
4736
Proučavam lažna sećanja.
04:12
Unhappily, Steve Titus is not the only person
83
240683
4307
Nažalost, Stiv Tajtus
nije jedina osoba
nije jedina osoba
04:16
to be convicted based on somebody's false memory.
84
244990
4305
koja je osuđena na osnovu
nečijeg lažnog sećanja.
nečijeg lažnog sećanja.
04:21
In one project in the United States,
85
249295
3308
Jedan projekat u SAD-u
04:24
information has been gathered
86
252603
2252
prikupio je informacije
04:26
on 300 innocent people,
87
254855
3934
o 300 nevinih ljudi,
04:30
300 defendants who were convicted of crimes they didn't do.
88
258789
3895
300 osuđenih za zločine
koje nisu počinili.
koje nisu počinili.
04:34
They spent 10, 20, 30 years in prison for these crimes,
89
262684
5300
Proveli su 10, 20, 30 godina
u zatvoru za ove zločine,
u zatvoru za ove zločine,
04:39
and now DNA testing has proven
90
267984
2427
i onda je DNK testiranje dokazalo
04:42
that they are actually innocent.
91
270411
2916
da su u stvari nevini.
04:45
And when those cases have been analyzed,
92
273327
2521
Kada su ti slučajevi analizirani,
04:47
three quarters of them
93
275848
2141
tri četvrtine njih
04:49
are due to faulty memory, faulty eyewitness memory.
94
277989
5611
nastalo je zbog netačnog pamćenja,
netačnog pamćenja svedoka.
netačnog pamćenja svedoka.
04:55
Well, why?
95
283600
1263
Dakle, zašto?
04:56
Like the jurors who convicted those innocent people
96
284863
3451
Kao porotnici koji su osudili
te nevine ljude,
te nevine ljude,
05:00
and the jurors who convicted Titus,
97
288314
2284
kao i porotnici koji su osudili Tajtusa,
05:02
many people believe that memory
98
290598
2241
mnogi ljudi veruju da pamćenje
05:04
works like a recording device.
99
292839
1647
radi kao uređaj za snimanje.
05:06
You just record the information,
100
294486
2257
Samo snimite informacije,
05:08
then you call it up and play it back
101
296743
2647
potom ih prizovete i pustite
05:11
when you want to answer questions or identify images.
102
299390
3427
kada želite da odgovorite na pitanja
ili identifikujete slike.
ili identifikujete slike.
05:14
But decades of work in psychology
103
302817
2163
Ali decenije rada u psihologiji
05:16
has shown that this just isn't true.
104
304980
3153
pokazuju da ovo nije istina.
05:20
Our memories are constructive.
105
308133
2430
Naša sećanja su konstruktivna.
05:22
They're reconstructive.
106
310563
1569
I rekonstruktivna.
05:24
Memory works a little bit more like a Wikipedia page:
107
312132
3481
Pamćenje pre funkcioniše
kao stranica Vikipedije:
kao stranica Vikipedije:
05:27
You can go in there and change it, but so can other people.
108
315613
5113
možete mu pristupiti i promeniti ga,
ali to mogu i drugi ljudi.
ali to mogu i drugi ljudi.
05:32
I first started studying this constructive memory process
109
320726
5249
Prvi put sam počela da proučavam
proces konstruktivnog pamćenja
proces konstruktivnog pamćenja
05:37
in the 1970s.
110
325975
2415
sedamdesetih.
05:40
I did my experiments that involved showing people
111
328390
4423
Eksperimentisala sam puštajući ljudima
05:44
simulated crimes and accidents
112
332813
2505
simulirane zločine i nesreće
05:47
and asking them questions about what they remember.
113
335318
3518
i postavljajući im pitanja
o tome čega se sećaju.
o tome čega se sećaju.
05:50
In one study, we showed people a simulated accident
114
338836
3939
U jednom eksperimentu pokazali smo
simuliranu nesreću
simuliranu nesreću
05:54
and we asked people,
115
342775
1278
i pitali smo ljude
05:56
how fast were the cars going when they hit each other?
116
344053
2864
koliko brzo su automobili išli
kada su se sudarili.
kada su se sudarili.
05:58
And we asked other people,
117
346917
1634
Druge smo pitali
06:00
how fast were the cars going when they smashed into each other?
118
348551
3689
koliko brzo su automobili išli
kada su se razvalili.
kada su se razvalili.
06:04
And if we asked the leading "smashed" question,
119
352240
3002
Kada smo postavljali pitanje
sa "razvalili",
sa "razvalili",
06:07
the witnesses told us the cars were going faster,
120
355242
3285
svedoci su govorili
da su automobili išli brže,
da su automobili išli brže,
06:10
and moreover, that leading "smashed" question
121
358527
3997
štaviše, takvo pitanje
06:14
caused people to be more likely to tell us
122
362524
2860
je navelo ljude da nam kažu
06:17
that they saw broken glass in the accident scene
123
365384
3067
da su videli razbijeno staklo
na mestu nesreće,
na mestu nesreće,
06:20
when there wasn't any broken glass at all.
124
368451
3779
gde razbijenog stakla nije bilo.
06:24
In another study, we showed a simulated accident
125
372230
2889
U drugoj studiji,
prikazali smo simuliranu nesreću
prikazali smo simuliranu nesreću
06:27
where a car went through an intersection with a stop sign,
126
375119
3660
gde je auto prošao kroz raskrsnicu
sa "stop" znakom,
sa "stop" znakom,
06:30
and if we asked a question that insinuated it was a yield sign,
127
378779
4932
i kada smo postavili pitanje
koje insinuira da je u pitanju trougao,
koje insinuira da je u pitanju trougao,
06:35
many witnesses told us they remember seeing a yield sign
128
383711
3849
mnogi svedoci su rekli da se sećaju
da su videli trougao
da su videli trougao
06:39
at the intersection, not a stop sign.
129
387560
3457
na raskrsnici, a ne "stop".
06:43
And you might be thinking, well, you know,
130
391017
2189
Možda mislite
06:45
these are filmed events,
131
393206
1323
da su ovo snimljeni događaji,
06:46
they are not particularly stressful.
132
394529
1928
nisu naročito stresni.
06:48
Would the same kind of mistakes be made
133
396457
2734
Da li bi iste greške nastale
06:51
with a really stressful event?
134
399191
2951
sa zaista stresnim događajima?
06:54
In a study we published just a few months ago,
135
402142
3091
U jednoj studiji koju smo objavili
pre samo nekoliko meseci,
pre samo nekoliko meseci,
06:57
we have an answer to this question,
136
405233
2304
imamo odgovor na to pitanje,
06:59
because what was unusual about this study
137
407537
2764
jer ono što je neobično
u vezi sa ovom studijom,
u vezi sa ovom studijom,
07:02
is we arranged for people to have a very stressful experience.
138
410301
5632
je da smo namestili da ljudi dožive
izuzetno stresno iskustvo.
izuzetno stresno iskustvo.
07:07
The subjects in this study
139
415933
2229
Subjekti ove studije
07:10
were members of the U.S. military
140
418162
2510
bili su članovi američke vojske,
07:12
who were undergoing a harrowing training exercise
141
420672
4425
koji su prolazili kroz užasan trening
07:17
to teach them what it's going to be like for them
142
425097
2782
koji ih uči kako će im biti
07:19
if they are ever captured as prisoners of war.
143
427879
3918
ako ikada postanu ratni zarobljenici.
07:23
And as part of this training exercise,
144
431797
2430
Kao deo ove vežbe,
07:26
these soldiers are interrogated in an aggressive,
145
434227
3529
vojnici su ispitivani na agresivan,
07:29
hostile, physically abusive fashion for 30 minutes
146
437756
5086
neprijateljski, fizički nasilan način
30 minuta
30 minuta
07:34
and later on they have to try to identify
147
442842
2817
i kasnije treba da pokušaju
da identifikuju
da identifikuju
07:37
the person who conducted that interrogation.
148
445659
3023
osobu koja je sprovodila ispitivanje.
07:40
And when we feed them suggestive information
149
448682
3823
Kada im dajemo sugestivne informacije
07:44
that insinuates it's a different person,
150
452505
2778
koje navode na drugu osobu,
07:47
many of them misidentify their interrogator,
151
455283
4037
mnogi od njih pogrešno identifikuju
svog ispitivača,
svog ispitivača,
07:51
often identifying someone who doesn't even remotely
152
459320
3835
često identifikuju nekoga
ko nimalo ne liči
ko nimalo ne liči
07:55
resemble the real interrogator.
153
463155
3104
na pravog ispitivača.
07:58
And so what these studies are showing
154
466259
2301
Dakle, ove studije pokazuju
08:00
is that when you feed people misinformation
155
468560
3860
da, kada ljudima date
pogrešne informacije
pogrešne informacije
08:04
about some experience that they may have had,
156
472420
3380
o nekom iskustvu kroz koje
su možda prošli,
su možda prošli,
08:07
you can distort or contaminate or change their memory.
157
475800
5655
možete iskriviti ili zatrovati
ili promeniti njihovo pamćenje.
ili promeniti njihovo pamćenje.
08:13
Well out there in the real world,
158
481455
2200
Pa, pogrešne informacije
08:15
misinformation is everywhere.
159
483655
2891
postoje svuda, u stvarnom svetu.
08:18
We get misinformation
160
486546
1360
Pogrešne informacije dobijamo
08:19
not only if we're questioned in a leading way,
161
487906
2916
ne samo kad smo navođeni
u ispitivanju,
u ispitivanju,
08:22
but if we talk to other witnesses
162
490822
2447
nego i ako razgovaramo
sa drugim svedocima,
sa drugim svedocima,
08:25
who might consciously or inadvertently feed us
163
493269
3033
koji mogu svesno ili nesvesno
08:28
some erroneous information,
164
496302
2137
da nam daju neke pogrešne informacije,
08:30
or if we see media coverage about some event we might have experienced,
165
498439
4730
ili kada vidimo medijski izveštaj
o nekom događaju koji smo doživeli,
o nekom događaju koji smo doživeli,
08:35
all of these provide the opportunity
166
503169
2793
sve ovo pruža priliku
08:37
for this kind of contamination of our memory.
167
505962
4350
za menjanje našeg sećanja.
08:42
In the 1990s, we began to see
168
510312
3788
Devedesetih smo počinjali da viđamo
08:46
an even more extreme kind of memory problem.
169
514100
4683
ekstremniju vrstu problema
sa sećanjem.
sa sećanjem.
08:50
Some patients were going into therapy with one problem --
170
518783
3096
Neki pacijenti su odlazili na terapiju
sa jednim problemom -
sa jednim problemom -
08:53
maybe they had depression, an eating disorder --
171
521879
2914
možda depresijom
ili poremećajem ishrane -
ili poremećajem ishrane -
08:56
and they were coming out of therapy
172
524793
2753
a sa terapije izlazili
08:59
with a different problem.
173
527546
2661
sa drugim problemom.
09:02
Extreme memories for horrific brutalizations,
174
530207
3701
Ekstremna sećanja
užasnih brutalizacija,
užasnih brutalizacija,
09:05
sometimes in satanic rituals,
175
533908
1983
ponekad satanističkih rituala,
09:07
sometimes involving really bizarre and unusual elements.
176
535891
4697
ponekad uključujući izuzetno bizarne
i neobične elemente.
i neobične elemente.
09:12
One woman came out of psychotherapy
177
540588
2554
Jedna žena je iz psihoterapije izašla
09:15
believing that she'd endured years
178
543142
2428
verujući da je pretrpela godine
09:17
of ritualistic abuse, where she was forced into a pregnancy
179
545570
3902
ritualističkih mučenja,
gde je naterana na trudnoću
gde je naterana na trudnoću
09:21
and that the baby was cut from her belly.
180
549472
2566
i gde joj je beba isečena iz stomaka.
09:24
But there were no physical scars
181
552038
2359
Ali nisu postojali fizički ožiljci
09:26
or any kind of physical evidence
182
554397
2026
ili bilo kakvi fizički dokazi
09:28
that could have supported her story.
183
556423
2881
koji bi potkrepili njenu priču.
09:31
And when I began looking into these cases,
184
559304
3008
Kada sam počela da istražujem
ove slučajeve,
ove slučajeve,
09:34
I was wondering,
185
562312
1450
pitala sam se,
09:35
where do these bizarre memories come from?
186
563762
2328
odakle dolaze ova bizarna sećanja?
09:38
And what I found is that most of these situations
187
566090
4387
Pronašla sam da većina ovih situacija
09:42
involved some particular form of psychotherapy.
188
570477
5491
uključuje neku određenu
vrstu psihoterapije.
vrstu psihoterapije.
09:47
And so I asked,
189
575968
1599
I pitala sam
09:49
were some of the things going on in this psychotherapy --
190
577567
3388
da li neke od stvari
koje se u toj psihoterapiji odvijaju -
koje se u toj psihoterapiji odvijaju -
09:52
like the imagination exercises
191
580955
2884
vežbe maštanja,
09:55
or dream interpretation,
192
583839
2057
interpretacije snova
09:57
or in some cases hypnosis,
193
585896
2132
ili u nekim slučajevima hipnoza,
10:00
or in some cases exposure to false information --
194
588028
3818
izlaganje lažnim informacijama -
10:03
were these leading these patients
195
591846
2787
da li to navodi pacijente
10:06
to develop these very bizarre,
196
594633
2677
da razviju ova bizarna,
10:09
unlikely memories?
197
597310
2931
neverovatna sećanja?
10:12
And I designed some experiments
198
600241
2159
Osmislila sam neke eksperimente
10:14
to try to study the processes that were being used
199
602400
5025
da pokušam da proučim procese
koji su se koristili
koji su se koristili
10:19
in this psychotherapy so I could study
200
607425
3073
u ovoj psihoterapiji,
da bih mogla da proučim
da bih mogla da proučim
10:22
the development of these very rich false memories.
201
610498
3551
razvoj ovih bogatih lažnih sećanja.
10:26
In one of the first studies we did,
202
614049
2408
U jednom od prvih eksperimenata,
10:28
we used suggestion,
203
616457
2353
koristili smo sugestiju,
10:30
a method inspired by the psychotherapy we saw in these cases,
204
618810
4063
metod inspirisan psihoterapijom
koju smo videli u ovim slučajevima,
koju smo videli u ovim slučajevima,
10:34
we used this kind of suggestion
205
622873
2110
koristili smo tu vrstu sugestije,
10:36
and planted a false memory
206
624983
1852
i usadili lažno sećanje,
10:38
that when you were a kid, five or six years old,
207
626835
3077
da ste se, kad ste bili dete,
sa pet ili šest godina,
sa pet ili šest godina,
10:41
you were lost in a shopping mall.
208
629912
2251
izgubili u tržnom centru.
10:44
You were frightened. You were crying.
209
632163
2500
Bili ste uplašeni.
Plakali ste.
Plakali ste.
10:46
You were ultimately rescued by an elderly person
210
634663
2514
Na kraju vas je spasila starija osoba
10:49
and reunited with the family.
211
637177
1852
i vratila vašoj porodici.
10:51
And we succeeded in planting this memory
212
639029
2608
Uspeli smo da usadimo ovo sećanje
10:53
in the minds of about a quarter of our subjects.
213
641637
4106
u umove otprilike četvrtine
naših subjekata.
naših subjekata.
10:57
And you might be thinking, well,
214
645743
2005
Možda mislite, pa dobro,
10:59
that's not particularly stressful.
215
647748
2346
to nije baš stresno.
11:02
But we and other investigators have planted
216
650094
3369
Ali mi i drugi istraživači smo usadili
11:05
rich false memories of things that were
217
653463
2758
bogata lažna sećanja
na stvari koje su bile
na stvari koje su bile
11:08
much more unusual and much more stressful.
218
656221
2915
mnogo neuobičajenije i mnogo stresnije.
11:11
So in a study done in Tennessee,
219
659136
2539
U jednoj studiji u Tenesiju,
11:13
researchers planted the false memory
220
661675
2416
istraživači su usadili lažno sećanje
11:16
that when you were a kid, you nearly drowned
221
664091
2574
da ste se, kao mali,
skoro udavili
skoro udavili
11:18
and had to be rescued by a life guard.
222
666665
2507
i morao je da vam pomogne spasilac.
11:21
And in a study done in Canada,
223
669172
2303
U jednoj studiji u Kanadi,
11:23
researchers planted the false memory
224
671475
2524
istraživači su usadili lažno sećanje
11:25
that when you were a kid,
225
673999
1228
da vam se, kao detetu,
11:27
something as awful as being attacked by a vicious animal
226
675227
3730
desilo nešto strašno kao što je
11:30
happened to you,
227
678957
1382
napad divlje životinje,
11:32
succeeding with about half of their subjects.
228
680339
3422
i to je uspelo kod oko
polovine njihovih subjekata.
polovine njihovih subjekata.
11:35
And in a study done in Italy,
229
683761
2352
A u studiji u Italiji,
11:38
researchers planted the false memory,
230
686113
2658
istraživači su usadili lažno sećanje
11:40
when you were a kid, you witnessed demonic possession.
231
688771
5212
da ste, kao dete,
bili svedok demonske posednutosti.
bili svedok demonske posednutosti.
11:45
I do want to add that it might seem
232
693983
2207
Želim da dodam da možda izgleda
11:48
like we are traumatizing these experimental subjects
233
696190
3739
kao da traumatizujemo
ove subjekte
ove subjekte
11:51
in the name of science,
234
699929
1600
u ime nauke,
11:53
but our studies have gone through thorough evaluation
235
701529
4638
ali naše studije su prošle kroz
detaljnu evaluaciju
detaljnu evaluaciju
11:58
by research ethics boards
236
706167
1975
istraživačkih etičkih komisija,
12:00
that have made the decision
237
708142
2342
koje su odlučile
12:02
that the temporary discomfort that some
238
710484
3073
da je trenutna nelagoda
12:05
of these subjects might experience in these studies
239
713557
3084
koju neki od subjekata
možda osete u ovim studijama
možda osete u ovim studijama
12:08
is outweighed by the importance of this problem
240
716641
3900
nadjačana značajem ovog problema
12:12
for understanding memory processes
241
720541
3107
za razumevanje procesa pamćenja
12:15
and the abuse of memory that is going on
242
723648
3346
i zloupotrebe pamćenja
koje se dešava
koje se dešava
12:18
in some places in the world.
243
726994
3293
na nekim mestima u svetu.
12:22
Well, to my surprise,
244
730287
3038
Pa, na moje iznenađenje,
12:25
when I published this work and began to speak out
245
733325
3429
kada sam objavila ovaj rad
i počela da govorim
i počela da govorim
12:28
against this particular brand of psychotherapy,
246
736754
3895
protiv ove vrste psihoterapije,
12:32
it created some pretty bad problems for me:
247
740649
3980
to mi je stvorilo neke gadne probleme:
12:36
hostilities, primarily from the repressed memory therapists,
248
744629
4901
neprijateljstva, prvenstveno od
terapeuta potisnutih sećanja,
terapeuta potisnutih sećanja,
12:41
who felt under attack,
249
749530
1676
koji su se osetili napadnutim,
12:43
and by the patients whom they had influenced.
250
751206
3528
i od pacijenata na koje su uticali.
12:46
I had sometimes armed guards at speeches
251
754734
2937
Ponekada sam imala
naoružano obezbeđenje
naoružano obezbeđenje
12:49
that I was invited to give,
252
757671
1905
na govorima koje sam držala,
12:51
people trying to drum up letter-writing campaigns to get me fired.
253
759576
4217
ljudi su pokušavali da sprovedu kampanje
kojima bi me otpustili.
kojima bi me otpustili.
12:55
But probably the worst
254
763793
1981
Ali možda najgore,
12:57
was I suspected that a woman
255
765774
2767
sumnjala sam da je jedna žena
13:00
was innocent of abuse
256
768541
2424
nevina za zlostavljanje
13:02
that was being claimed by her grown daughter.
257
770965
2836
za koje ju je optužila
njena odrasla ćerka.
njena odrasla ćerka.
13:05
She accused her mother of sexual abuse
258
773801
3417
Optužila je majku
za seksualno zlostavljanje
za seksualno zlostavljanje
13:09
based on a repressed memory.
259
777218
1859
zasnovano na potisnutom sećanju.
13:11
And this accusing daughter had actually allowed her story
260
779077
2883
Ova ćerka je dozvolila
da se njena priča
da se njena priča
13:13
to be filmed and presented in public places.
261
781960
3434
snimi i prikazuje na javnim mestima.
13:17
I was suspicious of this story,
262
785394
2509
Posumnjala sam u tu priču
13:19
and so I started to investigate,
263
787903
2300
i počela da istražujem,
13:22
and eventually found information that convinced me
264
790203
4483
naposletku našavši informacije
koje su me ubedile
koje su me ubedile
13:26
that this mother was innocent.
265
794686
2289
da je ta majka nevina.
13:28
I published an exposé on the case,
266
796975
2961
Objavila sam izveštaj o slučaju,
13:31
and a little while later, the accusing daughter
267
799936
3444
i malo kasnije, ta ćerka
13:35
filed a lawsuit.
268
803380
1521
je podigla tužbu.
13:36
Even though I'd never mentioned her name,
269
804901
2355
Iako nikad nisam pomenula njeno ime,
13:39
she sued me for defamation and invasion of privacy.
270
807256
4362
tužila me je za povredu časti
i privatnosti.
i privatnosti.
13:43
And I went through nearly five years
271
811618
2723
Prošla sam kroz skoro 5 godina
13:46
of dealing with this messy, unpleasant litigation,
272
814341
6552
borbe sa tom haotičnom,
neprijatnom parnicom,
neprijatnom parnicom,
13:52
but finally, finally, it was over and I could really
273
820893
3674
ali konačno je sve bilo gotovo
13:56
get back to my work.
274
824567
2424
i mogla sam da se vratim svom poslu.
13:58
In the process, however, I became part
275
826991
2485
Međutim, u tom procesu
sam postala deo
sam postala deo
14:01
of a disturbing trend in America
276
829476
2654
uznemiravajućeg trenda u Americi,
14:04
where scientists are being sued
277
832130
2107
gde se naučnici tuže
14:06
for simply speaking out on matters of great public controversy.
278
834237
4599
zbog iznošenja mišljenja o stvarima
velike javne kontraverze.
velike javne kontraverze.
14:10
When I got back to my work, I asked this question:
279
838836
3358
Kada sam se vratila poslu,
postavila sam sledeće pitanje:
postavila sam sledeće pitanje:
14:14
if I plant a false memory in your mind,
280
842194
2398
ako u vaš um ubacim lažno sećanje,
14:16
does it have repercussions?
281
844592
1844
da li to ima posledica?
14:18
Does it affect your later thoughts,
282
846436
1959
Da li utiče na vaše kasnije misli,
14:20
your later behaviors?
283
848395
2101
vaša kasnija ponašanja?
14:22
Our first study planted a false memory
284
850496
2027
Naš prvi eksperiment
ubacio je lažno sećanje
ubacio je lažno sećanje
14:24
that you got sick as a child eating certain foods:
285
852523
3326
da ste se kao dete razboleli
jedući određenu hranu;
jedući određenu hranu;
14:27
hard-boiled eggs, dill pickles, strawberry ice cream.
286
855849
2999
tvrdo kuvana jaja, turšiju,
sladoled od jagoda.
sladoled od jagoda.
14:30
And we found that once we planted this false memory,
287
858848
3190
Otkrili smo da, kada ubacimo
ova sećanja,
ova sećanja,
14:34
people didn't want to eat the foods as much
288
862038
2451
ljudi na pikniku nisu više želeli
14:36
at an outdoor picnic.
289
864489
2260
da jedu tu hranu.
14:38
The false memories aren't necessarily bad or unpleasant.
290
866749
3873
Lažna sećanja nisu obavezno
loša ili neprijatna.
loša ili neprijatna.
14:42
If we planted a warm, fuzzy memory
291
870622
2358
Ako ubacimo toplo, prijatno sećanje
14:44
involving a healthy food like asparagus,
292
872980
3021
koje uključuje zdravu hranu
kao što je špargla,
kao što je špargla,
14:48
we could get people to want to eat asparagus more.
293
876001
3475
možemo navesti ljude da žele
da jedu više špargle.
da jedu više špargle.
14:51
And so what these studies are showing
294
879476
2374
Ove studije pokazuju
14:53
is that you can plant false memories
295
881850
2115
da možete ubaciti lažna sećanja
14:55
and they have repercussions
296
883965
1413
i ona imaju posledice
14:57
that affect behavior long after the memories take hold.
297
885378
5085
na ponašanje mnogo vremena kasnije.
15:02
Well, along with this ability
298
890463
2424
Pa, sa ovom sposobnošću
15:04
to plant memories and control behavior
299
892887
2923
za postavljanjem sećanja
i kontrolisanjem ponašanja,
i kontrolisanjem ponašanja,
15:07
obviously come some important ethical issues,
300
895810
4181
očigledno dolaze i neka važna
etička pitanja,
etička pitanja,
15:11
like, when should we use this mind technology?
301
899991
3059
na primer, kada bi trebalo
da koristimo ovu tehnologiju uma?
da koristimo ovu tehnologiju uma?
15:15
And should we ever ban its use?
302
903050
3680
Da li bi trebalo da zabranimo
njenu upotrebu?
njenu upotrebu?
15:18
Therapists can't ethically plant false memories
303
906730
2783
Terapeuti ne mogu etički
da ubacuju lažna sećanja
da ubacuju lažna sećanja
15:21
in the mind of their patients
304
909513
1587
u umove pacijenata,
15:23
even if it would help the patient,
305
911100
2564
čak i kada bi to pacijentu pomoglo,
15:25
but there's nothing to stop a parent
306
913664
1622
ali ništa ne sprečava roditelja
15:27
from trying this out on their overweight or obese teenager.
307
915286
4449
da ovo isproba
na svom gojaznom tinejdžeru.
na svom gojaznom tinejdžeru.
15:31
And when I suggested this publicly,
308
919735
2605
Kada sam ovo javno rekla,
15:34
it created an outcry again.
309
922340
3346
to je ponovo stvorilo pobunu.
15:37
"There she goes. She's advocating that parents lie to their children."
310
925686
4033
"Evo je opet. Zagovara da roditelji
lažu svoju decu".
lažu svoju decu".
15:41
Hello, Santa Claus. (Laughter)
311
929719
2245
Zdravo, Deda Mraze.
(Smeh)
(Smeh)
15:43
I mean, another way to think about this is,
312
931964
9497
Mislim, možete se i zapitati
15:53
which would you rather have,
313
941461
2033
šta biste radije imali,
15:55
a kid with obesity, diabetes, shortened lifespan,
314
943494
3029
dete sa gojaznošću, dijabetesom,
kraćim životnim vekom
kraćim životnim vekom
15:58
all the things that go with it,
315
946523
1532
i svime što sa tim ide
16:00
or a kid with one little extra bit of false memory?
316
948055
3016
ili dete sa jednim
lažnim sećanjem više?
lažnim sećanjem više?
16:03
I know what I would choose for a kid of mine.
317
951071
3391
Znam šta bih ja izabrala
za svoje dete.
za svoje dete.
16:06
But maybe my work has made me different from most people.
318
954462
3977
Ali možda je mene moj posao
učinio drugačijom od većine.
učinio drugačijom od većine.
16:10
Most people cherish their memories,
319
958439
2079
Većina voli svoja sećanja,
16:12
know that they represent their identity,
320
960518
2154
zna da ona predstavljaju
njihov identitet,
njihov identitet,
16:14
who they are, where they came from.
321
962672
2025
ono ko su i odakle dolaze.
16:16
And I appreciate that. I feel that way too.
322
964697
2858
Ja poštujem to.
I ja se tako osećam.
I ja se tako osećam.
16:19
But I know from my work
323
967555
2205
Ali iz svog posla znam
16:21
how much fiction is already in there.
324
969760
4481
koliko je fikcije već prisutno tu.
16:26
If I've learned anything from these decades
325
974241
2732
Ako sam išta naučila iz ovih decenija
16:28
of working on these problems, it's this:
326
976973
2410
rada na ovim problema,
to je ovo:
to je ovo:
16:31
just because somebody tells you something
327
979383
2211
samo zato što vam neko nešto kaže
16:33
and they say it with confidence,
328
981594
1575
i to čini sa poverenjem,
16:35
just because they say it with lots of detail,
329
983169
2680
samo zato što to kaže
sa mnogo detalja
sa mnogo detalja
16:37
just because they express emotion when they say it,
330
985849
2759
i sa mnogo emocija,
16:40
it doesn't mean that it really happened.
331
988608
3202
ne znači da se to zaista dogodilo.
16:43
We can't reliably distinguish true memories from false memories.
332
991810
3865
Ne možemo pouzdano razlikovati
istinita od lažnih sećanja.
istinita od lažnih sećanja.
16:47
We need independent corroboration.
333
995675
3548
Potrebni su nam nezavisni dokazi.
16:51
Such a discovery has made me more tolerant
334
999223
3090
To otkriće me je učinilo tolerantnijom
16:54
of the everyday memory mistakes
335
1002313
2139
na svakodnevne greške u pamćenju
16:56
that my friends and family members make.
336
1004452
2914
koje čine moji prijatelji i porodica.
16:59
Such a discovery might have saved Steve Titus,
337
1007366
4534
Takvo otkriće je moglo
da spase Stiva Tajtusa,
da spase Stiva Tajtusa,
17:03
the man whose whole future was snatched away
338
1011900
3576
čoveka čiju celu budućnost
je oduzelo
je oduzelo
17:07
by a false memory.
339
1015476
2238
jedno lažno sećanje.
17:09
But meanwhile, we should all keep in mind,
340
1017714
2816
Ali u međuvremenu,
trebalo bi da zapamtimo,
trebalo bi da zapamtimo,
17:12
we'd do well to,
341
1020530
1636
bolje da zapamtimo,
17:14
that memory, like liberty,
342
1022166
3871
da je pamćenje, kao sloboda,
17:18
is a fragile thing.
343
1026037
3694
osetljiva stvar.
17:21
Thank you. Thank you.
344
1029731
2938
Hvala vam.
17:24
Thank you. (Applause)
345
1032669
2728
Hvala vam.
(Aplauz)
(Aplauz)
17:27
Thanks very much. (Applause)
346
1035397
3719
Hvala vam mnogo.
(Aplauz)
(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Elizabeth Loftus - False memories scholarMemory-manipulation expert Elizabeth Loftus explains how our memories might not be what they seem -- and how implanted memories can have real-life repercussions.
Why you should listen
Elizabeth Loftus altered the course of legal history by revealing that memory is not only unreliable, but also mutable. Since the 1970s, Loftus has created an impressive body of scholarly work and has appeared as an expert witness in hundreds of courtrooms, bolstering the cases of defendants facing criminal charges based on eyewitness testimony, and debunking “recovered memory” theories popular at the time, as in her book The Myth of Repressed Memory: False Memories and Allegations of Sexual Abuse (with Katherine Ketcham).
Since then, Loftus has dedicated herself to discovering how false memories can affect our daily lives, leading her to surprising therapeutic applications for memory modification -- including controlling obesity by implanting patients with preferences for healthy foods.
Elizabeth Loftus | Speaker | TED.com