Mission Blue II
Anote Tong: My country will be underwater soon -- unless we work together
Anote Tong: Moja zemlja će uskoro biti pod vodom - ako se ne udružimo
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Za ljude sa Kiribata klimatska promena nije nešto o čemu treba voditi debate, nešto što treba poreći ili doneti zakon protiv toga, već je to svakodnevna stvarnost. Zbog porasta nivoa mora, narod na nisko ležećim Pacifičkim ostrvima bi se uskoro mogao naći pod vodom. U ličnom razgovoru sa kustosom TED-a, Krisom Andersenom, predsednik Kiribata, Anote Tong, razmatra trenutnu klimatsku katastrofu u njegovoj državi, i njenu ugroženu budućnost. "Da bismo se bavili klimatskom promenom, moraju se podneti žrtve. Mora biti obavezivanja." - kaže on. "Moramo reći ljudima da se svet promenio."
Anote Tong - President of the Republic of Kiribati
Anote Tong has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change. Full bio
Anote Tong has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Chris Anderson: Perhaps we could start
by just telling us about your country.
by just telling us about your country.
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Kris Anderson: Mogli bismo početi
pričom o vašoj zemlji.
pričom o vašoj zemlji.
00:16
It's three dots there on the globe.
Those dots are pretty huge.
Those dots are pretty huge.
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To su tri tačke na zemaljskoj kugli.
Prilično velike tačke.
Prilično velike tačke.
00:20
I think each one
is about the size of California.
is about the size of California.
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Mislim da je svaka od njih
veličine kao Kalifornija.
veličine kao Kalifornija.
00:23
Tell us about Kiribati.
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Pričajte nam o Kiribatima.
00:25
Anote Tong: Well, let me first begin
by saying how deeply grateful I am
by saying how deeply grateful I am
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Anote Tong: Prvo da vam se zahvalim
zbog mogućnosti
zbog mogućnosti
00:29
for this opportunity to share my story
with people who do care.
with people who do care.
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da ispričam priču onima,
koje to zaista zanima.
koje to zaista zanima.
00:33
I think I've been sharing my story with
a lot of people who don't care too much.
a lot of people who don't care too much.
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Mnogima sam već ispričao priču,
ali nisu mnogo marili.
ali nisu mnogo marili.
00:39
But Kiribati is comprised
of three groups of islands:
of three groups of islands:
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Kiribati uključuju tri grupe ostrva:
00:43
the Gilbert Group on the west,
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na zapadu su ostrva Gilbert,
00:46
we have the Phoenix Islands in the middle,
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u sredini su ostrva Feniks,
00:49
and the Line Islands in the east.
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a na istoku su Linijska ostrva.
00:53
And quite frankly, Kiribati
is perhaps the only country
is perhaps the only country
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Iskreno rečeno, Kiribati su možda
jedina zemlja
jedina zemlja
00:57
that is actually
in the four corners of the world,
in the four corners of the world,
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koja se nalazi na četiri kraja sveta,
00:59
because we are in the Northern Hemisphere,
in the Southern Hemisphere,
in the Southern Hemisphere,
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jer se nalazimo i na severnoj
i na južnoj hemisferi,
i na južnoj hemisferi,
01:02
and also in the east and the west
of the International Date Line.
of the International Date Line.
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a takođe istočno i zapadno
od Međunarodne datumske granice.
od Međunarodne datumske granice.
01:05
These islands are entirely
made up of coral atolls,
made up of coral atolls,
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Ova ostrva su uglavnom atoli,
01:12
and on average about
two meters above sea level.
two meters above sea level.
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u proseku su na oko dva metara
nadmorske visine.
nadmorske visine.
01:17
And so this is what we have.
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To je ono što imamo.
01:20
Usually not more
than two kilometers in width.
than two kilometers in width.
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Ostrva nisu šira od dva kilometra.
01:25
And so, on many occasions,
I've been asked by people,
I've been asked by people,
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Bilo je mnogo slučajeva kada su me pitali:
01:28
"You know, you're suffering,
why don't you move back?"
why don't you move back?"
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"Vi se mučite. Zašto se ne povučete
malo nazad?"
malo nazad?"
01:30
They don't understand.
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Oni ne shvataju.
01:32
They have no concept
of what it is that's involved.
of what it is that's involved.
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Nemaju predstavu šta je sve upetljano.
01:35
With the rising sea, they say,
"Well, you can move back."
"Well, you can move back."
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Kada se podiže nivo mora, oni kažu:
"Možete se povući malo nazad."
"Možete se povući malo nazad."
01:39
And so this is what I tell them.
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Ja im odgovaram:
01:41
If we move back, we will fall off
on the other side of the ocean. OK?
on the other side of the ocean. OK?
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"Ako se povučemo, pašćemo u okean
sa druge strane, razumete?"
sa druge strane, razumete?"
01:45
But these are the kinds of issues
that people don't understand.
that people don't understand.
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Ovakve stvari ljudi ne razumeju.
01:50
CA: So certainly this is
just a picture of fragility there.
just a picture of fragility there.
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KA: Ovo oslikava veoma krhko stanje tamo.
01:54
When was it that you yourself realized
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Kada ste vi, sami, shvatili
01:57
that there might be
impending peril for your country?
impending peril for your country?
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da predstoji opasnost za vašu zemlju?
02:00
AT: Well, the story of climate change
has been one that has been going on
has been one that has been going on
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AT: Priča o klimatskoj promeni
02:04
for quite a number of decades.
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provlači se već decenijama.
02:05
And when I came into office in 2003,
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Kada sam stupio na dužnost 2003,
02:10
I began talking about climate change
at the United Nations General Assembly,
at the United Nations General Assembly,
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počeo sam priču o klimatskoj promeni
na Generalnoj skupštini UN,
na Generalnoj skupštini UN,
02:14
but not with so much passion,
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ali ne sa toliko strasti,
02:17
because then there was still
this controversy among the scientists
this controversy among the scientists
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jer je među naučnicima bilo neslaganja,
02:21
whether it was human-induced,
whether it was real or it wasn't.
whether it was real or it wasn't.
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da li ju je podstrekao čovek,
da li je stvarna ili nije.
da li je stvarna ili nije.
02:26
But I think that that debate
was fairly much concluded in 2007
was fairly much concluded in 2007
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Ta debata je okončana 2007,
02:32
with the Fourth Assessment
Report of the IPCC,
Report of the IPCC,
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Četvrtim Izveštajem o oceni IPCC,
gde je kategorički izjavljeno
gde je kategorički izjavljeno
02:38
which made a categorical statement
that it is real, it's human-induced,
that it is real, it's human-induced,
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da je ona stvarna,
prouzrokovana od strane ljudi
prouzrokovana od strane ljudi
02:45
and it's predicting
some very serious scenarios
some very serious scenarios
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i predviđa veoma ozbiljna scenarija
02:48
for countries like mine.
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za zemlje kao što je moja.
02:51
And so that's when I got very serious.
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Tada sam to ozbiljno shvatio.
02:54
In the past, I talked about it.
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Pričao sam o tome i u prošlosti.
02:58
We were worried.
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Bili smo zabrinuti.
03:00
But when the scenarios,
the predictions came in 2007,
the predictions came in 2007,
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Ali, kada su se pojavili scenariji
i predviđanja 2007,
i predviđanja 2007,
03:03
it became a real issue for us.
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to je za nas postala realnost.
03:06
CA: Now, those predictions are,
I think, that by 2100,
I think, that by 2100,
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KA: Prema tim predviđanjima, do 2100,
03:11
sea levels are forecast to rise
perhaps three feet.
perhaps three feet.
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nivo mora će se podići skoro za metar.
03:14
There's scenarios where
it's higher than that, for sure,
it's higher than that, for sure,
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Neki predviđaju i više,
03:17
but what would you say
to a skeptic who said,
to a skeptic who said,
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ali šta biste vi rekli skeptiku
koji kaže:
koji kaže:
03:19
"What's three feet?
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"Šta je jedan metar?
03:20
You're on average
six feet above sea level.
six feet above sea level.
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Vi ste u proseku tri metra
iznad nivoa mora.
iznad nivoa mora.
03:22
What's the problem?"
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U čemu je problem?"
03:24
AT: Well, I think
it's got to be understood
it's got to be understood
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AT: Mora da se shvati
03:26
that a marginal rise in sea level
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da bi i neznatni porast nivoa mora
03:28
would mean a loss of a lot of land,
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značio gubitak velikog dela zemljišta,
03:31
because much of the land is low.
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jer većina zemljišta je nisko.
03:34
And quite apart from that,
we are getting the swells at the moment.
we are getting the swells at the moment.
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Pored toga, već je sve natopljeno.
03:39
So it's not about getting two feet.
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Nije u pitanju samo pola metra.
03:41
I think what many people do not understand
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Mnogi ne shvataju
03:44
is they think climate change is something
that is happening in the future.
that is happening in the future.
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da klimatska promena nije nešto
što će se desiti u budućnosti.
što će se desiti u budućnosti.
03:51
Well, we're at the very
bottom end of the spectrum.
bottom end of the spectrum.
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Već smo na samom dnu dešavanja.
03:53
It's already with us.
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Ona je već sa nama.
03:55
We have communities
who already have been dislocated.
who already have been dislocated.
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Neke zajednice su već dislocirane.
03:58
They have had to move,
and every parliament session,
and every parliament session,
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Morali su da se presele,
i na svakom zasedanju Skupštine
i na svakom zasedanju Skupštine
04:02
I'm getting complaints
from different communities
from different communities
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ljudi se žale,
04:05
asking for assistance to build seawalls,
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traže pomoć za podizanje nasipa,
04:08
to see what we can do
about the freshwater lens
about the freshwater lens
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žele da vide šta radimo sa resursima vode,
04:10
because it's being destroyed,
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jer se one uništavaju.
04:12
and so in my trips
to the different islands,
to the different islands,
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Na svojim putovanjima na razna ostrva
04:15
I'm seeing evidence of communities
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vidim da se neke zajednice
04:18
which are now having to cope
with the loss of food crops,
with the loss of food crops,
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bore sa gubitkom useva,
04:21
the contamination of the water lenses,
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zagađenjem vodenih resursa,
04:25
and I see these communities
perhaps leaving, having to relocate,
perhaps leaving, having to relocate,
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i vidim da će zadeset godina
možda morati da odu,
možda morati da odu,
04:29
within five to 10 years.
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da budu preseljene.
04:32
CA: And then, I think the country
suffered its first cyclone,
suffered its first cyclone,
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KA: Mislim da ste pretrpeli i prvi ciklon,
04:36
and this is connected, yes?
What happened here?
What happened here?
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a to je sve povezano.
Šta se desilo?
Šta se desilo?
04:39
AT: Well, we're on the equator,
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AT: Mi smo na ekvatoru,
04:42
and I'm sure many of you understand
that when you're on the equator,
that when you're on the equator,
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i siguran sam da mnogi misle
da smo u stagnaciji,
da smo u stagnaciji,
04:46
it's supposed to be in the doldrums.
We're not supposed to get the cyclones.
We're not supposed to get the cyclones.
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da nismo izloženi ciklonima.
04:50
We create them, and then we send them
either north or south.
either north or south.
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Mi ih stvaramo i onda ih šaljemo
na sever ili na jug.
na sever ili na jug.
04:53
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
04:54
But they aren't supposed to come back.
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Ne bi trebalo da nam se vrate.
04:56
But for the first time,
at the beginning of this year,
at the beginning of this year,
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Ali, prvi put početkom ove godine,
04:59
the Cyclone Pam,
which destroyed Vanuatu,
which destroyed Vanuatu,
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ciklon Pam, koji je uništio Vanuatu,
05:02
and in the process,
the very edges of it actually touched
the very edges of it actually touched
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njegovi obodi su dotakli
05:06
our two southernmost islands,
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dva naša najjužnija ostrva,
05:08
and all of Tuvalu was underwater
when Hurricane Pam struck.
when Hurricane Pam struck.
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tako da je ceo Tuvalu bio pod vodom
kad je udario ciklon Pam.
kad je udario ciklon Pam.
05:14
But for our two southernmost islands,
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Na dva najjužnija ostrva
05:17
we had waves come over half the island,
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talasi su dopreli do polovine ostrva,
a i više,
a i više,
05:21
and so this has never happened before.
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to se ranije nikad nije dogodilo.
05:23
It's a new experience.
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To je novo iskustvo.
05:25
And I've just come back
from my own constituency,
from my own constituency,
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Upravo sam se vratio
iz svoje izborne jedinice,
iz svoje izborne jedinice,
05:30
and I've seen these beautiful trees
which had been there for decades,
which had been there for decades,
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i video sam ovo divno drveće,
koje se decenijama nalazi ovde,
koje se decenijama nalazi ovde,
05:34
they've been totally destroyed.
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potpuno uništeno.
05:36
So this is what's happening,
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Evo, to se događa,
05:37
but when we talk
about the rising sea level,
about the rising sea level,
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ali kada govorimo
o porastu nivoa mora,
o porastu nivoa mora,
05:41
we think it's something
that happens gradually.
that happens gradually.
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mislimo da se to dešava postepeno.
05:44
It comes with the winds,
it comes with the swells,
it comes with the swells,
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Dolazi sa vetrovima, natapa se,
05:47
and so they can be magnified,
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dolazi do uvećanja,
05:49
but what we are beginning to witness
is the change in the weather pattern,
is the change in the weather pattern,
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ali ono čemu smo svedoci,
to je promena modela vremena,
to je promena modela vremena,
05:55
which is perhaps the more urgent challenge
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a to je gorući izazov
05:58
that we will face sooner
than perhaps the rising sea level.
than perhaps the rising sea level.
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sa kojim ćemo se suočiti
pre nego sa povećanjem nivoa mora.
pre nego sa povećanjem nivoa mora.
06:03
CA: So the country
is already seeing effects now.
is already seeing effects now.
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KA: Znači, država već vidi posledice.
06:06
As you look forward,
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U budućnosti,
06:08
what are your options
as a country, as a nation?
as a country, as a nation?
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koje su vaše opcije kao države,
kao naroda?
kao naroda?
06:12
AT: Well, I've been telling
this story every year.
this story every year.
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AT: Ja ponavljam ovu priču svake godine.
06:15
I think I visit a number of --
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Putujem svetom,
06:16
I've been traveling the world
to try and get people to understand.
to try and get people to understand.
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trudim se da ljudi shvate.
06:21
We have a plan, we think we have a plan.
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Mislim da imamo plan.
06:24
And on one occasion,
I think I spoke in Geneva
I think I spoke in Geneva
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Jednom prilikom sam govorio u Ženevi,
06:27
and there was a gentleman
who was interviewing me
who was interviewing me
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jedan gospodin
06:31
on something like this,
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me je intervjuisao o ovome,
06:33
and I said, "We are looking
at floating islands,"
at floating islands,"
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a ja sam rekao da mi
tražimo plutajuća ostrva,
tražimo plutajuća ostrva,
06:36
and he thought it was funny,
but somebody said,
but somebody said,
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njemu je to bilo smešno,
ali je neko rekao:
ali je neko rekao:
06:38
"No, this is not funny.
These people are looking for solutions."
These people are looking for solutions."
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"Ovo nije smešno. Ljudi traže rešenja."
06:42
And so I have been looking
at floating islands.
at floating islands.
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Tražim plutajuća ostrva.
06:45
The Japanese are interested
in building floating islands.
in building floating islands.
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Japanci su zainteresovanI
za izgradnju.
za izgradnju.
06:49
But, as a country,
we have made a commitment
we have made a commitment
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Kao država opredelili smo se.
06:52
that no matter what happens,
we will try as much as possible
we will try as much as possible
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Bez obzira šta se dešava,
pokušaćemo koliko god možemo
pokušaćemo koliko god možemo
06:56
to stay and continue to exist as a nation.
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da ostanemo i nastavimo opstanak
kao narod.
kao narod.
07:00
What that will take,
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Kako ćemo izdržati,
07:02
it's going to be
something quite significant,
something quite significant,
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to će biti nešto veoma značajno,
07:05
very, very substantial.
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veoma, veoma suštinsko.
07:07
Either we live on floating islands,
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Živećemo na plutajućim ostrvima
07:09
or we have to build up the islands
to continue to stay out of the water
to continue to stay out of the water
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ili ćemo nadgraditi ostrva da bismo bili
iznad vode
iznad vode
07:13
as the sea level rises
and as the storms get more severe.
and as the storms get more severe.
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kad more nadolazi i kad budu
žestoke oluje.
žestoke oluje.
07:18
But even that, it's going to be
very, very difficult
very, very difficult
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Bez obzira, biće jako, jako teško
07:20
to get the kind of resourcing
that we would need.
that we would need.
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nabaviti sredstva za ono što nam treba.
07:23
CA: And then the only recourse
is some form of forced migration.
is some form of forced migration.
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KA: Onda, jedini izlaz
je prisilna migracija.
je prisilna migracija.
07:27
AT: Well, we are also looking at that
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AT: Razmatramo i to,
07:29
because in the event
that nothing comes forward
that nothing comes forward
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jer u slučaju da ne stigne ništa
07:32
from the international community,
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iz međunarodne zajednice,
07:34
we are preparing,
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pripremamo se,
07:35
we don't want to be caught
like what's happening in Europe.
like what's happening in Europe.
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ne smemo biti zatečeni
poput onoga što se dešava u Evropi.
poput onoga što se dešava u Evropi.
07:38
OK? We don't want to mass migrate
at some point in time.
at some point in time.
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Ne želimo da masovno migriramo
u nekom momentu.
u nekom momentu.
07:41
We want to be able
to give the people the choice today,
to give the people the choice today,
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Želimo da pružimo šansu ljudima danas,
07:44
those who choose
and want to do that, to migrate.
and want to do that, to migrate.
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oni koji žele to da učine,
neka migriraju.
neka migriraju.
07:48
We don't want something to happen
that they are forced to migrate
that they are forced to migrate
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Ne želimo da se nešto desi
i da budu prisiljeni da se sele,
i da budu prisiljeni da se sele,
07:53
without having been prepared to do so.
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a da za to nisu spremni.
07:56
Of course, our culture is very different,
our society is very different,
our society is very different,
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Naša kultura je veoma različita,
naše društvo je veoma različito,
naše društvo je veoma različito,
07:59
and once we migrate
into a different environment,
into a different environment,
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i kad se preselimo u drugačije okruženje,
08:01
a different culture,
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u drugačiju kulturu,
08:03
there's a whole lot
of adjustments that are required.
of adjustments that are required.
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potrebno je mnogo prilagođavanja.
08:06
CA: Well, there's forced migration
in your country's past,
in your country's past,
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KA: Postoji prisilno preseljenje
u vašoj državi,
u vašoj državi,
08:09
and I think just this week,
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i ove nedelje ste,
08:11
just yesterday
or the day before yesterday,
or the day before yesterday,
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juče ili prekjuče,
08:14
you visited these people.
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posetili te ljude.
08:16
What happened here? What's the story here?
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Šta se desilo? Šta kažu?
08:18
AT: Yes, and I'm sorry,
I think somebody was asking
I think somebody was asking
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AT: Da, žao mi je, mislim da me je
neko pitao
neko pitao
08:21
why we were sneaking off
to visit that place.
to visit that place.
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zašto smo umakli sa tog mesta.
08:24
I had a very good reason, because we have
a community of Kiribati people
a community of Kiribati people
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Imali smo dobar razlog, jer imamo
zajednicu ljudi sa Kiribata,
zajednicu ljudi sa Kiribata,
08:28
living in that part
of the Solomon Islands,
of the Solomon Islands,
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koji žive u tom delu Solomonskih ostrva,
08:32
but these were people who were relocated
from the Phoenix Islands, in fact,
from the Phoenix Islands, in fact,
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a ovo su bili ljudi
dislocirani sa ostrva Feniks
dislocirani sa ostrva Feniks
08:36
in the 1960s.
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60-tih godina.
08:37
There was serious drought, and the people
could not continue to live on the island,
could not continue to live on the island,
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Desila se ozbiljna suša, ljudi nisu mogli
živeti više na ostrvu,
živeti više na ostrvu,
08:42
and so they were moved
to live here in the Solomon Islands.
to live here in the Solomon Islands.
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bili su preseljeni na Solomonska ostrva.
08:45
And so yesterday it was very interesting
to meet with these people.
to meet with these people.
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Bio je veoma zanimljiv susret
sa tim ljudima juče.
sa tim ljudima juče.
08:48
They didn't know who I was.
They hadn't heard of me.
They hadn't heard of me.
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Nisu znali ko sam. Nisu čuli za mene.
08:51
Some of them later recognized me,
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Neki su me kasnije prepoznali,
08:53
but I think they were very happy.
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mislim da su bili veoma srećni.
08:57
Later they really wanted to have
the opportunity to welcome me formally.
the opportunity to welcome me formally.
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Kasnije su hteli da mi prirede
i formalnu dobrodošlicu.
i formalnu dobrodošlicu.
09:01
But I think what I saw yesterday
was very interesting
was very interesting
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Ono što sam juče video
bilo je veoma zanimljivo,
bilo je veoma zanimljivo,
09:05
because here I see our people.
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jer ovde vidim naše ljude.
09:07
I spoke in our language, and of course
they spoke back, they replied,
they spoke back, they replied,
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Govorim našim jezikom, i naravno
oni tako uzvraćaju,
oni tako uzvraćaju,
09:12
but their accent, they are beginning
not to be able to speak Kiribati properly.
not to be able to speak Kiribati properly.
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ali drugačijim akcentom, oni još malo
i neće govoriti ispravno Kiribati.
i neće govoriti ispravno Kiribati.
09:17
I saw them, there was
this lady with red teeth.
this lady with red teeth.
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Video sam ih, bila je ova žena
sa crvenim zubima.
sa crvenim zubima.
09:20
She was chewing betel nuts,
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Žvakala je betel,
09:22
and it's not something we do in Kiribati.
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a mi to na Kiribatima ne činimo.
09:24
We don't chew betel nuts.
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Ne žvaćemo betel.
09:27
I met also a family who have married
the local people here,
the local people here,
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Neki se žene i udaju za meštane ovde,
09:33
and so this is what is happening.
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evo, to se dešava.
09:37
As you go into another community,
there are bound to be changes.
there are bound to be changes.
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Kada odete u drugu zajednicu,
obavezno se dešavaju promene.
obavezno se dešavaju promene.
09:40
There is bound to be
a certain loss of identity,
a certain loss of identity,
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Obavezno se desi određeni
gubitak identiteta,
gubitak identiteta,
09:45
and this is what we will be
looking for in the future
looking for in the future
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time ćemo se suočiti u budućnosti,
09:48
if and when we do migrate.
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ako i kada budemo migrirali.
09:51
CA: It must have been
just an extraordinarily emotional day
just an extraordinarily emotional day
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KA: Mora da je bio izuzetno emotivan dan,
09:54
because of these questions about identity,
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zbog ovih pitanja o identitetu,
09:57
the joy of seeing you and perhaps
an emphasized sense of what they had lost.
an emphasized sense of what they had lost.
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zbog radosti što vas vide, i zbog
naglašenog osećanja gubitka.
naglašenog osećanja gubitka.
10:02
And it's very inspiring to hear you say
you're going to fight to the end
you're going to fight to the end
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Vrlo je inspirativno čuti
da ćete se boriti do kraja
da ćete se boriti do kraja
10:05
to try to preserve
the nation in a location.
the nation in a location.
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da sačuvate narod na svom ognjištu.
10:10
AT: This is our wish.
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AT: To je naša želja.
10:11
Nobody wants ever to leave their home,
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Niko nikad ne želi napustiti svoj dom,
10:14
and so it's been
a very difficult decision for me.
a very difficult decision for me.
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i to je veoma teška odluka za mene.
10:17
As a leader, you don't make plans
to leave your island, your home,
to leave your island, your home,
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Kao lider, ne planirate da napustite
vaše ostrvo, vaš dom,
vaše ostrvo, vaš dom,
10:23
and so I've been asked
on a number of occasions,
on a number of occasions,
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i mnogo puta su me pitali:
10:25
"So how do you feel?"
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"Pa, kako se osećate?"
10:26
And it doesn't feel good at all.
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Uopšte mi nije bilo prijatno.
10:29
It's an emotional thing,
and I've tried to live with it,
and I've tried to live with it,
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To je stvar osećanja,
pokušavam da živim s time,
pokušavam da živim s time,
10:33
and I know that on occasions, I'm accused
of not trying to solve the problem
of not trying to solve the problem
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i znam da me u nekim prilikama osuđuju
da ne pokušavam da rešim problem,
da ne pokušavam da rešim problem,
10:38
because I can't solve the problem.
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1976
ali ja ne mogu da rešim problem.
10:40
It's something that's got
to be done collectively.
to be done collectively.
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To se mora uraditi na kolektivnom nivou.
10:43
Climate change is a global phenomenon,
and as I've often argued,
and as I've often argued,
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Klimatska promena je globalna pojava,
često sam tvrdio,
često sam tvrdio,
10:49
unfortunately, the countries,
when we come to the United Nations --
when we come to the United Nations --
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nažalost, kada smo dolazili u UN,
10:53
I was in a meeting with
the Pacific Island Forum countries
the Pacific Island Forum countries
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susretao sam se
sa Forumom Pacifičkih država,
sa Forumom Pacifičkih država,
10:58
where Australia and New Zealand
are also members,
are also members,
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čiji su članovi kako Australija,
tako i Novi Zeland,
tako i Novi Zeland,
11:01
and we had an argument.
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imali smo raspravu.
11:02
There was a bit of a story in the news
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Bilo je o tome nešto malo u vestima,
11:05
because they were arguing
that to cut emissions,
that to cut emissions,
199
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jer su tvrdili
da je smanjenje emisija emoguće,
da je smanjenje emisija emoguće,
11:09
it would be something
that they're unable to do
that they're unable to do
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da je to nešto što ne bi mogli da urade,
11:12
because it would affect the industries.
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jer bi to uticalo na industriju.
11:15
And so here I was saying,
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Na to sam rekao:
11:16
OK, I hear you,
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U redu,
11:19
I understand what you're saying,
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razumem šta kažete,
11:20
but try also to understand what I'm saying
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ali pokušajte i vi da shvatite
šta ja govorim,
šta ja govorim,
11:23
because if you do not cut your emissions,
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jer ako ne smanjite emisije,
11:25
then our survival is on the line.
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naš opstanak je na granici.
11:28
And so it's a matter for you
to weigh this, these moral issues.
to weigh this, these moral issues.
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Na vama je da procenite
ova moralna pitanja.
ova moralna pitanja.
11:32
It's about industry as opposed to
the survival of a people.
the survival of a people.
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Ovde je industrija naspram
preživljavanja ljudi.
preživljavanja ljudi.
11:36
CA: You know, I ask you yesterday
what made you angry,
what made you angry,
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KA: Pitao sam juče
zašto ste ljutiti,
zašto ste ljutiti,
11:39
and you said, "I don't get angry."
But then you paused.
But then you paused.
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a vi ste odgovorili da niste,
pa ste zastali.
pa ste zastali.
11:42
I think this made you angry.
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Mislim da ste zbog ovog ljuti.
11:44
AT: I'd refer you to my earlier
statement at the United Nations.
statement at the United Nations.
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AT: Pozvao bih se na svoju raniju izjavu
u Ujedinjenim nacijama.
u Ujedinjenim nacijama.
11:49
I was very angry, very frustrated
and then depressed.
and then depressed.
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Bio sam veoma ljut, frustriran i utučen.
11:54
There was a sense of futility
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1976
Osećala se uzaludnost borbe koju vodimo,
11:56
that we are fighting a fight
that we have no hope of winning.
that we have no hope of winning.
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5456
bez nade da ćemo pobediti.
12:01
I had to change my approach.
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Morao sam da promenim svoj pristup.
12:03
I had to become more reasonable
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Morao sam postati umereniji
12:05
because I thought people would listen
to somebody who was rational,
to somebody who was rational,
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3143
jer sam mislio da će ljudi slušati one,
koji su racionalni,
koji su racionalni,
12:09
but I remain radically rational,
whatever that is.
whatever that is.
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ali sam ostao skroz racionalan,
šta god to znači.
šta god to znači.
12:11
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
12:13
CA: Now, a core part
of your nation's identity is fishing.
of your nation's identity is fishing.
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KA: Suštinski deo identiteta vašeg naroda
je ribolov.
je ribolov.
12:17
I think you said pretty much everyone
is involved in fishing in some way.
is involved in fishing in some way.
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Skoro svi su vezani za ribolov
na neki način.
na neki način.
12:20
AT: Well, we eat fish
every day, every day,
every day, every day,
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AT: Da, jedemo ribu svakodnevno,
12:23
and I think there is no doubt
that our rate of consumption of fish
that our rate of consumption of fish
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nema sumnje da je naša stopa
potrošnje ribe
potrošnje ribe
12:28
is perhaps the highest in the world.
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možda najviša na svetu.
12:30
We don't have a lot of livestock,
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Nemamo veliki stočni fond,
12:32
so it's fish that we depend on.
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mi zavisimo od ribe.
12:35
CA: So you're dependent on fish,
both at the local level
both at the local level
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3136
KA: Prema tome, vi zavisite od ribe,
kako na lokalnom nivou,
kako na lokalnom nivou,
12:38
and for the revenues
that the country receives
that the country receives
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tako i po prihodima koje država ostvaruje
12:41
from the global fishing business for tuna,
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od ulova tuna,
12:43
and yet despite that, a few years ago
you took a very radical step.
you took a very radical step.
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a ipak, pre nekoliko godina ste preduzeli
jedan veoma radikalan korak.
jedan veoma radikalan korak.
12:48
Can you tell us about that?
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Recite nam nešto o tome.
12:50
I think something happened
right here in the Phoenix Islands.
right here in the Phoenix Islands.
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Mislim da se nešto desilo baš ovde,
na ostrvu Feniks.
na ostrvu Feniks.
12:53
AT: Let me give some of the background
of what fish means for us.
of what fish means for us.
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AT: Hajde da vam otkrijem
šta riba znači za nas.
šta riba znači za nas.
12:58
We have one of the largest
tuna fisheries remaining in the world.
tuna fisheries remaining in the world.
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Imamo najveći prostor
za izlov tune na svetu.
za izlov tune na svetu.
13:02
In the Pacific, I think we own
something like 60 percent
something like 60 percent
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U Tihom okeanu posedujemo
oko šezdeset posto
oko šezdeset posto
13:05
of the remaining tuna fisheries,
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preostalog lovišta,
13:07
and it remains relatively healthy
for some species, but not all.
for some species, but not all.
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4256
i ono ostaje relativno bezbedno
za neke vrste, ali ne za sve.
za neke vrste, ali ne za sve.
13:11
And Kiribati is one of the three
major resource owners,
major resource owners,
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Kiribati su jedan od tri
najveća vlasnika ovih resursa,
najveća vlasnika ovih resursa,
13:18
tuna resource owners.
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resursa tuna.
13:19
And at the moment, we have been getting
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3576
Sada dobijamo
13:23
something like 80 to 90
percent of our revenue
percent of our revenue
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oko osamdeset do devedeset posto prihoda
13:26
from access fees, license fees.
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od naknada za pristup i licencu.
13:28
CA: Of your national revenue.
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KA: Govorite o državnom dohotku?
13:30
AT: National revenue,
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AT: O državnom dohotku,
13:32
which drives everything that we do
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koji je pokretač svega što imamo
i radimo u vladi,
i radimo u vladi,
13:35
in governments, hospitals,
schools and what have you.
schools and what have you.
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bolnicama, školama.
13:39
But we decided to close this,
and it was a very difficult decision.
and it was a very difficult decision.
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5216
Ipak smo odlučili da to okončamo
i bila je to veoma teška odluka.
i bila je to veoma teška odluka.
13:44
I can assure you, politically,
locally, it was not easy,
locally, it was not easy,
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Uveravam vas da to nije bilo lako
ni politički, ni na lokalu,
ni politički, ni na lokalu,
13:50
but I was convinced that we had to do this
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ali sam bio ubeđen da to moramo učiniti,
13:54
in order to ensure
that the fishery remains sustainable.
that the fishery remains sustainable.
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da bismo bili sigurni
da je ribarstvo održivo.
da je ribarstvo održivo.
13:58
There had been some indications
that some of the species,
that some of the species,
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Bilo je naznaka da su neke vrste tuna
14:01
in particular the bigeye,
was under serious threat.
was under serious threat.
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4136
ozbiljno ugrožene,
naročito velikooka.
naročito velikooka.
14:05
The yellowfin was also heavily fished.
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Previše se izlovljava
i tuna sa žutim perajima.
i tuna sa žutim perajima.
14:09
Skipjack remains healthy.
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Riba skakavica je bezbedna.
14:10
And so we had to do something like that,
and so that was the reason I did that.
and so that was the reason I did that.
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Ovo su bili razlozi da učinimo nešto.
14:15
Another reason why I did that
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Drugi razlog je bio to,
14:19
was because I had been asking
the international community
the international community
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što sam zamolio međunarodnu zajednicu,
14:24
that in order to deal with climate change,
in order to fight climate change,
in order to fight climate change,
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da se žrtvujemo i obavezujemo,
14:28
there has got to be sacrifice,
there has got to be commitment.
there has got to be commitment.
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da bismo se bavili klimatskom promenom,
da bismo se borili pritiv nje.
da bismo se borili pritiv nje.
14:32
So in asking the international community
to make a sacrifice,
to make a sacrifice,
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Da bih zamolio međunarodnu zajednicu
za požrtvovanje,
za požrtvovanje,
14:38
I thought we ourselves
need to make that sacrifice.
need to make that sacrifice.
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mislio sam da prvo mi sami moramo
da se žrtvujemo.
da se žrtvujemo.
14:41
And so we made the sacrifice.
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1816
To smo i uradili.
14:42
And forgoing commercial fishing
265
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Prestanak komercijalnog lova
14:47
in the Phoenix Islands protected area
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na zaštićenom području Ostrva Feniks
14:50
would mean a loss of revenue.
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značiće gubitak dohotka.
14:52
We are still trying to assess
what that loss would be
what that loss would be
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Još uvek procenjujemo gubitak,
14:54
because we actually closed it off
at the beginning of this year,
at the beginning of this year,
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5235
jer smo istrajali od početka godine,
15:00
and so we will see by the end of this year
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2336
videćemo krajem godine
15:02
what it means in terms
of the lost revenue.
of the lost revenue.
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3496
šta to znači u smislu gubitka dohotka.
15:05
CA: So there's so many things
playing into this.
playing into this.
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KA: Mnogo toga je ovde u igri.
15:08
On the one hand,
it may prompt healthier fisheries.
it may prompt healthier fisheries.
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U jednu ruku, to može pokrenuti
zdravije ribarstvo.
zdravije ribarstvo.
15:15
I mean, how much are you able
to move the price up
to move the price up
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Koliko možete podići cene
15:17
that you charge for the remaining areas?
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koje naplaćujete za ostala područja?
15:20
AT: The negotiations
have been very difficult,
have been very difficult,
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AT: Pregovori su bili vrlo teški,
15:24
but we have managed
to raise the cost of a vessel day.
to raise the cost of a vessel day.
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ali smo uspeli podići cenu dnevne dozvole.
15:28
For any vessel
to come in to fish for a day,
to come in to fish for a day,
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Za brod koji dolazi u jednodnevni ribolov
15:31
we have raised the fee from --
it was $6,000 and $8,000,
it was $6,000 and $8,000,
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podigli smo cenu - bila je
od 6 do 8 hiljada dolara -
od 6 do 8 hiljada dolara -
15:34
now to $10,000, $12,000 per vessel day.
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sada je od 10 do 12 hiljada dolara
po danu.
po danu.
15:39
And so there's been
that significant increase.
that significant increase.
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Porast je značajan.
15:42
But at the same time,
what's important to note is,
what's important to note is,
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Važno je napomenuti
15:47
whereas in the past these fishing boats
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da su u prošlosti ribarski brodovi
15:51
might be fishing in a day
and maybe catch 10 tons,
and maybe catch 10 tons,
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mogli da izlove 10 tona dnevno,
15:55
now they're catching maybe 100 tons
because they've become so efficient.
because they've become so efficient.
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a sada možda i 100 tona,
toliko su postali efikasni.
toliko su postali efikasni.
15:59
And so we've got to respond likewise.
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Morali smo na isti način odgovoriti.
16:02
We've got to be very, very careful
because the technology has so improved.
because the technology has so improved.
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Morali smo biti veoma obazrivi,
jer je tehnologija mnogo napredovala.
jer je tehnologija mnogo napredovala.
16:06
There was a time when the Brazilian fleet
moved from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
moved from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
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Jedno vreme se brazilska flota
preselila sa Atlantika na Tihi okean.
preselila sa Atlantika na Tihi okean.
16:11
They couldn't.
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Nisu mogli.
16:12
They started experimenting
if they could, per se.
if they could, per se.
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Samoinicijativno su počeli
da eksperimentišu mogu li.
da eksperimentišu mogu li.
16:16
But now they've got ways of doing it,
and they've become so efficient.
and they've become so efficient.
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Sada su našli načina,
zato su tako efikasni.
zato su tako efikasni.
16:21
CA: Can you give us a sense
of what it's like in those negotiations?
of what it's like in those negotiations?
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KA: Možete li nam dočarati kakvi su
ti pregovori?
ti pregovori?
16:24
Because you're up against companies
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Jer ste vi ustali protiv kompanija
16:26
that have hundreds of millions
of dollars at stake, essentially.
of dollars at stake, essentially.
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koje imaju stotine miliona
dolara u igri.
dolara u igri.
16:29
How do you hold the line?
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Kako održavate sadašnje stanje?
16:33
Is there any advice you can give
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Imate li savet
16:35
to other leaders who are dealing
with the same companies
with the same companies
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drugim liderima, koji se bave
istim kompanijama,
istim kompanijama,
16:38
about how to get
the most for your country,
the most for your country,
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kako da izvuku najviše za državu,
16:42
get the most for the fish?
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za ribolov?
16:46
What advice would you give?
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Koji biste savet dali?
16:48
AT: Well, I think we focus
too often on licensing
too often on licensing
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AT: Previše se fokusiramo
na davanje dozvola
na davanje dozvola
16:54
in order to get the rate of return,
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da bismo ostvarili dobit,
16:56
because what we are getting
from license fees
from license fees
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jer je dobit od naknade za licencu
16:59
is about 10 percent
of the landed value of the catch
of the landed value of the catch
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iznosi oko deset posto izlova,
17:01
on the side of the wharf,
not in the retail shops.
not in the retail shops.
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na doku, ne u maloprodajnim objektima.
17:04
And we only get about 10 percent.
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Mi dobijamo samo oko deset posto.
17:08
What we have been trying
to do over the years
to do over the years
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Godinama pokušavamo
17:11
is actually to increase
our participation in the industry,
our participation in the industry,
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da povećamo udeo u industriji,
17:15
in the harvesting, in the processing,
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u prehrani, u preradi,
17:17
and eventually, hopefully, the marketing.
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i, nadamo se, u marketingu.
17:19
They're not easy to penetrate,
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Nije lako probiti se,
17:23
but we are working towards that,
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ali idemo u tom pravcu,
17:25
and yes, the answer would be to enhance.
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odgovor je u napredovanju,
17:28
In order to increase our rate of return,
we have to become more involved.
we have to become more involved.
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da bismo povećali dohodak,
moramo se više uključiti.
moramo se više uključiti.
17:32
And so we've started doing that,
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Počeli smo već sa time,
17:35
and we have to restructure the industry.
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moramo preurediti industriju.
17:40
We've got to tell these people
that the world has changed.
that the world has changed.
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Moramo objasniti ljudima
da se svet promenio.
da se svet promenio.
17:43
Now we want to produce the fish ourselves.
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Sada želimo sami
da proizvodimo ribu.
da proizvodimo ribu.
17:46
CA: And meanwhile,
for your local fishermen,
for your local fishermen,
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KA: U međuvremenu, lokalni ribari
17:48
they are still able to fish,
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još uvek mogu loviti ribu,
17:51
but what is business like for them?
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kako se njima čini posao?
17:53
Is it getting harder?
Are the waters depleted?
Are the waters depleted?
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Da li postaje teži?
Da li su vode osiromašene?
Da li su vode osiromašene?
17:56
Or is that being run
on a sustainable basis?
on a sustainable basis?
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Ili je sve to održivo?
17:59
AT: For the artisanal fishery,
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AT: Zanatlijsko ribarstvo
18:01
we do not participate
in the commercial fishing activity
in the commercial fishing activity
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ne učestvuje u komercijalnom ribarstvu,
18:04
except only to supply the domestic market.
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ono snabdeva samo domaće tržište.
18:07
The tuna fishery is really
entirely for the foreign market,
entirely for the foreign market,
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Izlov tune je za strano tržište,
18:10
mostly here in the US, Europe, Japan.
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uglavnom za SAD, Evropu i Japan.
18:17
So I am a fisherman, very much,
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I sam sam ribar,
18:21
and I used to be able to catch yellowfin.
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nekada sam lovio tune sa žutim perajima.
18:24
Now it's very, very rare
to be able to catch yellowfin
to be able to catch yellowfin
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Sada je retkost uloviti tu vrstu,
18:27
because they are being lifted
out of the water by the hundreds of tons
out of the water by the hundreds of tons
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jer su vađene na stotine tona
18:30
by these purse seiners.
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kružnim mrežama.
18:34
CA: So here's a couple
of beautiful girls from your country.
of beautiful girls from your country.
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KA: Evo par lepih devojaka iz vaše zemlje.
18:39
I mean, as you think about their future,
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Razmišljajući o njihovoj budućnosti,
18:42
what message would you have for them
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šta im poručujete,
18:45
and what message
would you have for the world?
would you have for the world?
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a šta biste poručili svetu?
18:48
AT: Well, I've been telling the world
that we really have to do something
that we really have to do something
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AT: Govorim svetu da zaista moramo
učiniti nešto
učiniti nešto
18:51
about what is happening to the climate
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zbog dešavanja sa klimom,
18:53
because for us, it's about
the future of these children.
the future of these children.
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jer od toga zavisi budućnost naše dece.
18:56
I have 12 grandchildren, at least.
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Ja imam najmanje dvanaestoro unučadi.
18:58
I think I have 12, my wife knows.
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Mislim da imam 12,
ali to moja supruga bolje zna.
ali to moja supruga bolje zna.
19:00
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
19:02
And I think I have eight children.
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Mislim da imam osmoro dece.
19:05
It's about their future.
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Moram misliti i na njih.
19:07
Every day I see my grandchildren,
about the same age as these young girls,
about the same age as these young girls,
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Svakog dana vidim svoju unučad,
otprilike su godišta ovih devojčica,
otprilike su godišta ovih devojčica,
19:10
and I do wonder,
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i zaista se pitam,
19:13
and I get angry sometimes, yes I do.
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ponekad se i naljutim.
19:15
I wonder what is to become of them.
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Šta će od njih postati?
19:17
And so it's about them
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Zbog njih bi trebalo
19:20
that we should be telling everybody,
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svako da zna
19:23
that it's not about
their own national interest,
their own national interest,
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da se ne radi o nacionalnom interesu,
19:25
because climate change,
regrettably, unfortunately,
regrettably, unfortunately,
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jer klimatsku promenu, nažalost,
19:29
is viewed by many countries
as a national problem. It's not.
as a national problem. It's not.
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mnoge zemlje smatraju
nacionalnim problemom. A nije.
nacionalnim problemom. A nije.
19:33
And this is the argument
we got into recently with our partners,
we got into recently with our partners,
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Ovaj argument razmatramo od skoro
sa našim partnerima
sa našim partnerima
19:36
the Australians and New Zealanders,
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iz Australije, sa Novog Zelanda,
19:37
because they said,
"We can't cut any more."
"We can't cut any more."
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jer oni ponavljaju:
"Mi više ne možemo smanjiti emisije."
"Mi više ne možemo smanjiti emisije."
19:41
This is what one of the leaders,
the Australian leader, said,
the Australian leader, said,
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Jedan Australijski lider je rekao
19:44
that we've done our part,
we are cutting back.
we are cutting back.
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da su oni uradili svoj deo
i time su završili.
i time su završili.
19:49
I said, What about the rest?
Why don't you keep it?
Why don't you keep it?
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A šta je sa ostalima?
Zašto oni ne nastave?
Zašto oni ne nastave?
19:52
If you could keep
the rest of your emissions
the rest of your emissions
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Kada biste zadržali ostatak emisija
19:55
within your boundaries,
within your borders,
within your borders,
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unutar vaših granica,
19:57
we'd have no question.
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ne bismo postavljali pitanje.
19:59
You can go ahead as much as you like.
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Onda napredujte koliko hoćete.
20:01
But unfortunately,
you're sending it our way,
you're sending it our way,
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Nažalost, emisije šaljete prema nama,
20:03
and it's affecting
the future of our children.
the future of our children.
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one utiču na budućnost naše dece.
20:05
And so surely I think that is the heart
of the problem of climate change today.
of the problem of climate change today.
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Mislim da je to suština
klimatske promene danas.
klimatske promene danas.
20:11
We will be meeting in Paris
at the end of this year,
at the end of this year,
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Krajem godine srešćemo se u Parizu,
20:14
but until we can think of this
as a global phenomenon,
as a global phenomenon,
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ali i do tada možemo razmišljati
o ovoj globalnoj pojavi,
o ovoj globalnoj pojavi,
20:18
because we create it,
individually, as nations,
individually, as nations,
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jer ih mi stvaramo kao pojedinci,
kao narodi,
kao narodi,
20:21
but it affects everybody else,
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1936
ali ona utiče na svakog,
20:23
and yet, we refuse
to do anything about it,
to do anything about it,
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pa ipak odbijamo da uradimo nešto
po tom pitanju,
po tom pitanju,
20:26
and we deal with it as a national problem,
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i smatramo da je to nacionalni problem,
20:29
which it is not -- it is a global issue,
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ali nije, nego je globalni,
20:31
and it's got to be
dealt with collectively.
dealt with collectively.
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i time se moramo baviti zajednički.
20:35
CA: People are incredibly bad
at responding to graphs and numbers,
at responding to graphs and numbers,
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KA: Ljudi veoma loše reaguju
na grafikone i brojke,
na grafikone i brojke,
20:39
and we shut our minds to it.
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zatvaramo oči pred time.
20:43
Somehow, to people, we're slightly better
at responding to that sometimes.
at responding to that sometimes.
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Naše reagovanje na ljude je ponekad
za nijansu bolje.
za nijansu bolje.
20:49
And it seems like it's
very possible that your nation,
very possible that your nation,
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Izgleda da ste za vaš narod,
20:52
despite, actually because of
the intense problems you face,
the intense problems you face,
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uprkos silnim problemima
sa kojima se suočavate,
sa kojima se suočavate,
20:57
you may yet be the warning light
to the world that shines most visibly,
to the world that shines most visibly,
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lampica upozorenja svetu,
21:02
most powerfully.
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najsjajnija, najmoćnija.
21:04
I just want to thank you,
I'm sure, on behalf of all of us,
I'm sure, on behalf of all of us,
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Želim da vam se zahvalim
u ime svih nas,
u ime svih nas,
21:06
for your extraordinary leadership
and for being here.
and for being here.
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za vaše izuzetno liderstvo
i za to, što ste ovde.
i za to, što ste ovde.
21:09
Mr. President, thank you so much.
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Gospodine Predsedniče, hvala vam.
21:11
AT: Thank you.
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AT: Hvala.
21:11
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Anote Tong - President of the Republic of KiribatiAnote Tong has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change.
Why you should listen
His Excellency Anote Tong is the fourth President of the Republic of Kiribati. He was first elected as President on 10 July 2003 and subsequently won two more elections in 2007 and in 2012. He is now serving his last term, which will end in mid-2015. Under his leadership, President Anote Tong also holds the portfolio of Head of State and Minister of Foreign Affairs and Immigration.
Anote Tong was born in 1952 on Fanning Island (also known as Tabuaeran) in the Line Islands and is a member of the Kiribati House of Parliament from the constituency of Maiana Island in the central Kiribati group.
Educated in New Zealand and in England at the University of Canterbury and the London School of Economics respectively, President Tong holds a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Economics under his belt.
Since the beginning of his presidency, President Anote Tong has become a strong climate change advocate and has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change.
He has stated on many occasions that Kiribati may cease to exist altogether and that its entire population may need to be resettled not as climate change refugees but as citizens who migrate on merit and with dignity.
With one of the lowest carbon-emission footprints in the world, Tong has often described Kiribati as a “frontline country” that has been among the first to experience dramatic climate change impacts.
As an extraordinary measure to set an example for the rest of the world, President Tong created the Phoenix Islands Protected Area, one of the largest marine protected areas in the world with a size of 408,250 square kilometers which was inscribed as a United Nations World Heritage site in 2008.
President Tong has won a number of awards and recognition that acknowledges his contribution and leadership on climate change and ocean conservation.
Anote Tong | Speaker | TED.com