ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Anote Tong - President of the Republic of Kiribati
Anote Tong has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change.

Why you should listen

His Excellency Anote Tong is the fourth President of the Republic of Kiribati. He was first elected as President on 10 July 2003 and subsequently won two more elections in 2007 and in 2012. He is now serving his last term, which will end in mid-2015. Under his leadership, President Anote Tong also holds the portfolio of Head of State and Minister of Foreign Affairs and Immigration.

Anote Tong was born in 1952 on Fanning Island (also known as Tabuaeran) in the Line Islands and is a member of the Kiribati House of Parliament from the constituency of Maiana Island in the central Kiribati group.

Educated in New Zealand and in England at the University of Canterbury and the London School of Economics respectively, President Tong holds a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Economics under his belt.

Since the beginning of his presidency, President Anote Tong has become a strong climate change advocate and has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change.

He has stated on many occasions that Kiribati may cease to exist altogether and that its entire population may need to be resettled not as climate change refugees but as citizens who migrate on merit and with dignity.

With one of the lowest carbon-emission footprints in the world, Tong has often described Kiribati as a “frontline country” that has been among the first to experience dramatic climate change impacts.

As an extraordinary measure to set an example for the rest of the world, President Tong created the Phoenix Islands Protected Area, one of the largest marine protected areas in the world with a size of 408,250 square kilometers which was inscribed as a United Nations World Heritage site in 2008.

President Tong has won a number of awards and recognition that acknowledges his contribution and leadership on climate change and ocean conservation.

More profile about the speaker
Anote Tong | Speaker | TED.com
Mission Blue II

Anote Tong: My country will be underwater soon -- unless we work together

湯安諾: 我的國家快被淹沒了,需要全球合作協助!

Filmed:
1,133,033 views

對吉里巴斯人民而言,氣候變遷不再是受爭論、否認或立法反對的話題,而是日常生活要面對的現實問題。這個地處低窪的太平洋島國,拜海平面升高之賜,很快就要被水淹沒。吉里巴斯總統湯安諾在與 TED 總監克里斯·安德森的對談中,討論了他的國家面對氣候災難的現況,以及未來的危險。他說:「為了因應氣候變遷,勢必要有所犧牲,勢必要有所承諾。我們一定要告訴大家世界已經改變。」
- President of the Republic of Kiribati
Anote Tong has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: Perhaps也許 we could start開始
by just telling告訴 us about your country國家.
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克里斯安德森:
或許我們可以從介紹你的國家開始。
00:16
It's three dots there on the globe地球.
Those dots are pretty漂亮 huge巨大.
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就是地球上的那三個點。
這些點還相當大。
00:20
I think each one
is about the size尺寸 of California加州.
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我想每個點都相當於加州大。
00:23
Tell us about Kiribati基里巴斯.
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跟我們介紹一下吉里巴斯。
00:25
Anote一張紙條 Tong: Well, let me first begin開始
by saying how deeply grateful感激 I am
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湯安諾:首先容我表達
深深的感謝之意,
00:29
for this opportunity機會 to share分享 my story故事
with people who do care關心.
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能有機會對真正關心的人
分享我的故事。
00:33
I think I've been sharing分享 my story故事 with
a lot of people who don't care關心 too much.
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我想我已經對太多
不太關心的人說過我的故事。
00:39
But Kiribati基里巴斯 is comprised
of three groups of islands島嶼:
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吉里巴斯由三個群島組成:
00:43
the Gilbert吉爾伯特 Group on the west西,
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西邊的吉爾伯特群島,
00:46
we have the Phoenix鳳凰 Islands島嶼 in the middle中間,
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中間的鳳凰群島,
00:49
and the Line Islands島嶼 in the east.
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和東邊的萊恩群島。
00:53
And quite相當 frankly坦率地說, Kiribati基里巴斯
is perhaps也許 the only country國家
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坦白說,吉里巴斯或許是唯一
00:57
that is actually其實
in the four corners角落 of the world世界,
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佔據世界四個角落的國家,
00:59
because we are in the Northern北方 Hemisphere半球,
in the Southern南部的 Hemisphere半球,
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因為我們不但
坐落在北半球、南半球,
01:02
and also in the east and the west西
of the International國際 Date日期 Line.
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也在國際換日線的東西兩邊。
01:05
These islands島嶼 are entirely完全
made製作 up of coral珊瑚 atolls環礁,
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這些島嶼完全由珊瑚環礁組成,
01:12
and on average平均 about
two meters above以上 sea level水平.
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平均高於海平面二公尺。
01:17
And so this is what we have.
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這就是我們的情況。
01:20
Usually平時 not more
than two kilometers公里 in width寬度.
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通常不會超過兩公里寬。
01:25
And so, on many許多 occasions場合,
I've been asked by people,
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所以,很多時候大家問我:
01:28
"You know, you're suffering痛苦,
why don't you move移動 back?"
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「你們這麼痛苦,
為什麼你們不往內搬?」
01:30
They don't understand理解.
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他們不懂。
01:32
They have no concept概念
of what it is that's involved參與.
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他們一點都沒概念
這牽涉什麼。
01:35
With the rising升起 sea, they say,
"Well, you can move移動 back."
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隨著海平面上升,他們說:
「你們可以往內搬。」
01:39
And so this is what I tell them.
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這是我對他們的回答。
01:41
If we move移動 back, we will fall秋季 off
on the other side of the ocean海洋. OK?
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如果我們往內搬,
會從另一邊掉到海裡去,好嗎?
01:45
But these are the kinds of issues問題
that people don't understand理解.
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這些就是大家都不了解的問題。
01:50
CACA: So certainly當然 this is
just a picture圖片 of fragility脆弱性 there.
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克:這張照片無疑
顯示出你們的脆弱。
01:54
When was it that you yourself你自己 realized實現
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你從什麼時候領悟到
01:57
that there might威力 be
impending即將到來的 peril for your country國家?
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你的國家或許有危險逼近?
02:00
AT: Well, the story故事 of climate氣候 change更改
has been one that has been going on
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湯:氣候變遷的情況
02:04
for quite相當 a number of decades幾十年.
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已經流傳了幾十年。
02:05
And when I came來了 into office辦公室 in 2003,
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我於 2003 年當選總統時,
02:10
I began開始 talking about climate氣候 change更改
at the United聯合的 Nations國家 General一般 Assembly部件,
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開始在聯合國大會談論氣候變遷,
02:14
but not with so much passion,
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但是當時我並沒有太多熱情,
02:17
because then there was still
this controversy爭議 among其中 the scientists科學家們
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因為那時候科學界對此
仍然存有歧見,
02:21
whether是否 it was human-induced人類活動引起的,
whether是否 it was real真實 or it wasn't.
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到底是不是人為,
到底是真還是假。
02:26
But I think that that debate辯論
was fairly相當 much concluded總結 in 2007
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但是我想在 2007 年
爭議大抵結束,
02:32
with the Fourth第四 Assessment評定
Report報告 of the IPCCIPCC,
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《政府間氣候變化專門委員會
第四次評估報告》
02:38
which哪一個 made製作 a categorical明確的 statement聲明
that it is real真實, it's human-induced人類活動引起的,
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發表明確聲明,
指出此為真實、人為的情況,
02:45
and it's predicting預測
some very serious嚴重 scenarios場景
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並預測會有非常嚴重的情況發生在
02:48
for countries國家 like mine.
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像我們這樣的國家。
02:51
And so that's when I got very serious嚴重.
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那時我才開始認真起來。
02:54
In the past過去, I talked about it.
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過去我只是談論它。
02:58
We were worried擔心.
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我們很擔心。
03:00
But when the scenarios場景,
the predictions預測 came來了 in 2007,
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但在 2007 年發布預測情況時,
03:03
it became成為 a real真實 issue問題 for us.
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這變成我們真正的問題。
03:06
CACA: Now, those predictions預測 are,
I think, that by 2100,
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克:我想現在的預測是
到了 2100 年,
03:11
sea levels水平 are forecast預測 to rise上升
perhaps也許 three feet.
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海平面可能會升高三呎。
03:14
There's scenarios場景 where
it's higher更高 than that, for sure,
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還有一些預測說會比那還高,
03:17
but what would you say
to a skeptic懷疑論者 who said,
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但你要怎麼對懷疑論者解釋?
03:19
"What's three feet?
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他們說:「三呎又怎麼樣?
03:20
You're on average平均
six feet above以上 sea level水平.
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你們平均高於海平面六呎,
03:22
What's the problem問題?"
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哪裡有問題?」
03:24
AT: Well, I think
it's got to be understood了解
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湯:我想大家都必須了解
03:26
that a marginal邊緣 rise上升 in sea level水平
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沿岸的海平面上升,
03:28
would mean a loss失利 of a lot of land土地,
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代表你會失去很多土地,
03:31
because much of the land土地 is low.
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因為通常沿海的土地都很低。
03:34
And quite相當 apart距離 from that,
we are getting得到 the swells驟升 at the moment時刻.
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就算撇開這個不談,
我們現在也有湧浪,
03:39
So it's not about getting得到 two feet.
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所以這不僅僅是升高兩呎而已。
03:41
I think what many許多 people do not understand理解
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我想很多人不瞭解,
03:44
is they think climate氣候 change更改 is something
that is happening事件 in the future未來.
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他們以為氣候變遷是未來的事。
03:51
Well, we're at the very
bottom底部 end結束 of the spectrum光譜.
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但是我們最先受到影響。
03:53
It's already已經 with us.
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它已經影響了我們。
03:55
We have communities社區
who already已經 have been dislocated脫臼.
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我們已經有社區必須搬離。
03:58
They have had to move移動,
and every一切 parliament議會 session會議,
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他們必須搬遷,
每一次議會開議期間,
04:02
I'm getting得到 complaints投訴
from different不同 communities社區
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我都聽到來自不同社區的抱怨,
04:05
asking for assistance幫助 to build建立 seawalls海堤,
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要求援助蓋海堤,
04:08
to see what we can do
about the freshwater淡水 lens鏡片
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看我們能不能拯救淡水透鏡體,
04:10
because it's being存在 destroyed銷毀,
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因為這些都被破壞了,
04:12
and so in my trips旅行
to the different不同 islands島嶼,
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所以每次我到不同的島上,
04:15
I'm seeing眼看 evidence證據 of communities社區
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我都看到社區
04:18
which哪一個 are now having to cope應付
with the loss失利 of food餐飲 crops作物,
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現在必須面對糧食作物損失,
04:21
the contamination污染 of the water lenses鏡頭,
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及淡水透鏡體遭受汙染的證據,
04:25
and I see these communities社區
perhaps也許 leaving離開, having to relocate搬遷,
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我也看到這些社區
也許必須離開、遷移,
04:29
within five to 10 years年份.
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在五到十年內。
04:32
CACA: And then, I think the country國家
suffered遭遇 its first cyclone氣旋,
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克:之前這個國家
首次遭到氣旋侵襲,
04:36
and this is connected連接的, yes?
What happened發生 here?
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這些都有關連,對嗎?
怎麼會發生這種事?
04:39
AT: Well, we're on the equator赤道,
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湯:我們位於赤道上,
04:42
and I'm sure many許多 of you understand理解
that when you're on the equator赤道,
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我確信在座很多人瞭解
如果你位於赤道,
04:46
it's supposed應該 to be in the doldrums低迷.
We're not supposed應該 to get the cyclones旋風.
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就應該是在赤道無風帶上。
我們不應該有氣旋。
04:50
We create創建 them, and then we send發送 them
either north or south.
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應該是我們產生氣旋,
然後往北邊南邊送。
04:53
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
04:54
But they aren't supposed應該 to come back.
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但是它們不該跑回來。
04:56
But for the first time,
at the beginning開始 of this year,
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但這是破天荒頭一遭,
在今年年初,
04:59
the Cyclone氣旋 Pam帕姆,
which哪一個 destroyed銷毀 Vanuatu瓦努阿圖,
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熱帶氣旋帕姆摧毀了萬那杜,
05:02
and in the process處理,
the very edges邊緣 of it actually其實 touched感動
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這個氣旋肆虐期間,
邊緣其實掃過
05:06
our two southernmost最南端 islands島嶼,
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我們最南端的兩個島嶼,
05:08
and all of Tuvalu圖瓦盧 was underwater水下
when Hurricane颶風 Pam帕姆 struck來襲.
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帕姆颶風把整個吐瓦魯都淹沒了。
05:14
But for our two southernmost最南端 islands島嶼,
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但是我們兩個最南端的島嶼,
05:17
we had waves波浪 come over half the island,
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超過一半的島被巨浪吞噬,
05:21
and so this has never happened發生 before.
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這真是前所未見。
05:23
It's a new experience經驗.
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這是全新的經驗。
05:25
And I've just come back
from my own擁有 constituency選民,
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我才剛從我的選區回來,
05:30
and I've seen看到 these beautiful美麗 trees樹木
which哪一個 had been there for decades幾十年,
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我看到一些漂亮的樹
過去幾十年都屹立不搖,
05:34
they've他們已經 been totally完全 destroyed銷毀.
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卻被徹底摧毀。
05:36
So this is what's happening事件,
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所以這就是現況,
05:37
but when we talk
about the rising升起 sea level水平,
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但是當我們談海平面上升,
05:41
we think it's something
that happens發生 gradually逐漸.
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我們都以為這是慢慢發生的事。
05:44
It comes with the winds,
it comes with the swells驟升,
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它會隨著風來,
它會隨著湧浪來,
05:47
and so they can be magnified放大,
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所以會有放大的現象,
05:49
but what we are beginning開始 to witness見證
is the change更改 in the weather天氣 pattern模式,
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但是我們開始目睹天氣型態改變,
05:55
which哪一個 is perhaps也許 the more urgent緊急 challenge挑戰
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這也許是更緊急的挑戰,
05:58
that we will face面對 sooner
than perhaps也許 the rising升起 sea level水平.
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我們很快就要面對,
可能比海平面上升更緊急。
06:03
CACA: So the country國家
is already已經 seeing眼看 effects效果 now.
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克:所以這個國家
現在已經開始看到效應。
06:06
As you look forward前鋒,
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往未來看,
06:08
what are your options選項
as a country國家, as a nation國家?
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你們身為一個國家
有什麼樣的選擇?
06:12
AT: Well, I've been telling告訴
this story故事 every一切 year.
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湯:我每年都要說這個故事。
06:15
I think I visit訪問 a number of --
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我想我去過很多——
06:16
I've been traveling旅行 the world世界
to try and get people to understand理解.
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我拜訪全世界,
試著讓大家瞭解情況。
06:21
We have a plan計劃, we think we have a plan計劃.
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我們有個計畫,
我們認為我們有個計畫。
06:24
And on one occasion場合,
I think I spoke in Geneva日內瓦
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有一次我在日內瓦演說,
06:27
and there was a gentleman紳士
who was interviewing面試 me
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有位先生訪問我,
06:31
on something like this,
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就像現在這樣,
06:33
and I said, "We are looking
at floating漂浮的 islands島嶼,"
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我說:「我們想做漂浮島。」
06:36
and he thought it was funny滑稽,
but somebody said,
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他覺得很好笑,
但是有個人說:
06:38
"No, this is not funny滑稽.
These people are looking for solutions解決方案."
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「這一點都不好笑,
這些人在找解決方案。」
06:42
And so I have been looking
at floating漂浮的 islands島嶼.
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所以我在研究漂浮島。
06:45
The Japanese日本 are interested有興趣
in building建造 floating漂浮的 islands島嶼.
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日本對建造漂浮島很有興趣。
06:49
But, as a country國家,
we have made製作 a commitment承諾
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但是,身為一個國家,
我們做出了承諾,
06:52
that no matter what happens發生,
we will try as much as possible可能
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無論發生什麼事,
我們都要盡可能留在島上,
繼續以國家存在。
06:56
to stay and continue繼續 to exist存在 as a nation國家.
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07:00
What that will take,
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但是這個代價
07:02
it's going to be
something quite相當 significant重大,
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將會非常大,
07:05
very, very substantial大量的.
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非常、非常可觀。
07:07
Either we live生活 on floating漂浮的 islands島嶼,
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我們要不就在漂浮島上生活,
07:09
or we have to build建立 up the islands島嶼
to continue繼續 to stay out of the water
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要不就是增高島嶼,
讓我們不會被淹沒,
07:13
as the sea level水平 rises上升
and as the storms風暴 get more severe嚴重.
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因為海平面上升,
暴風也會愈來愈強烈。
07:18
But even that, it's going to be
very, very difficult
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即便如此,
我們也非常、非常難
07:20
to get the kind of resourcing資源配置
that we would need.
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取得所需的資源。
07:23
CACA: And then the only recourse追索權
is some form形成 of forced被迫 migration移民.
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克:要不然最後的手段
就是某種形式的強制遷移。
07:27
AT: Well, we are also looking at that
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湯:我們也在研究這個,
07:29
because in the event事件
that nothing comes forward前鋒
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因為在沒有國際協助的情況下,
07:32
from the international國際 community社區,
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07:34
we are preparing準備,
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我們要預備好,
07:35
we don't want to be caught抓住
like what's happening事件 in Europe歐洲.
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我們不想被困在
像歐洲現在的情況,
07:38
OK? We don't want to mass migrate遷移
at some point in time.
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好嗎?我們不想看到
大規模遷移發生。
07:41
We want to be able能夠
to give the people the choice選擇 today今天,
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我們希望今天能給人民選擇,
07:44
those who choose選擇
and want to do that, to migrate遷移.
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想要遷移的人可以遷移。
07:48
We don't want something to happen發生
that they are forced被迫 to migrate遷移
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我們不想看到大家被強制遷移,
07:53
without having been prepared準備 to do so.
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而且毫無防備。
07:56
Of course課程, our culture文化 is very different不同,
our society社會 is very different不同,
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當然,我們的文化很不一樣,
我們的社會很不一樣,
07:59
and once一旦 we migrate遷移
into a different不同 environment環境,
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一旦我們遷移進入不同的環境,
08:01
a different不同 culture文化,
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不同的文化,
08:03
there's a whole整個 lot
of adjustments調整 that are required需要.
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一定需要很多的調適。
08:06
CACA: Well, there's forced被迫 migration移民
in your country's past過去,
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克:過去你的國家
曾有過強制遷移,
08:09
and I think just this week,
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我想就在這個星期,
08:11
just yesterday昨天
or the day before yesterday昨天,
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就在昨天或前天,
08:14
you visited參觀 these people.
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你訪問了這些人。
08:16
What happened發生 here? What's the story故事 here?
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發生了什麼事?
是怎樣的情況?
08:18
AT: Yes, and I'm sorry,
I think somebody was asking
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湯:是,而且很抱歉,
我知道有人在問
08:21
why we were sneaking鬼鬼祟祟 off
to visit訪問 that place地點.
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為什麼我們要溜出去
訪問那個地方。
08:24
I had a very good reason原因, because we have
a community社區 of Kiribati基里巴斯 people
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我有個很好的理由,
因為有一群吉里巴斯人
08:28
living活的 in that part部分
of the Solomon所羅門 Islands島嶼,
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住在索羅門群島上那塊區域,
08:32
but these were people who were relocated搬遷
from the Phoenix鳳凰 Islands島嶼, in fact事實,
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但是他們其實是在 1960 年代
從鳳凰群島搬遷到那裡的。
08:36
in the 1960s.
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08:37
There was serious嚴重 drought乾旱, and the people
could not continue繼續 to live生活 on the island,
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那時有嚴重的乾旱,
人民無法繼續在島上生活,
08:42
and so they were moved移動
to live生活 here in the Solomon所羅門 Islands島嶼.
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所以他們搬到索羅門群島這裡。
08:45
And so yesterday昨天 it was very interesting有趣
to meet遇到 with these people.
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昨天與這些人會面很有意思。
08:48
They didn't know who I was.
They hadn't有沒有 heard聽說 of me.
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他們不知道我是誰。
他們沒聽過我。
08:51
Some of them later後來 recognized認可 me,
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有些人後來認出我,
08:53
but I think they were very happy快樂.
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但是我想他們都很高興。
08:57
Later後來 they really wanted to have
the opportunity機會 to welcome歡迎 me formally正式地.
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後來他們真的想要
辦一個正式的歡迎會。
09:01
But I think what I saw yesterday昨天
was very interesting有趣
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但是我想昨天
我看到的情況非常有意思,
09:05
because here I see our people.
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因為我在這裡看到我們的人民。
09:07
I spoke in our language語言, and of course課程
they spoke back, they replied回答,
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我用我們的語言與他們交談,
當然他們也用同樣的語言回答,
09:12
but their accent口音, they are beginning開始
not to be able能夠 to speak說話 Kiribati基里巴斯 properly正確.
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但是他們有口音,他們已經開始
講不太標準的吉里巴斯話。
09:17
I saw them, there was
this lady淑女 with red teeth.
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我看見他們,
有位女士有紅色的牙齒。
09:20
She was chewing咀嚼 betel nuts堅果,
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她在嚼檳榔,
09:22
and it's not something we do in Kiribati基里巴斯.
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我們在吉里巴斯不吃這個。
09:24
We don't chew betel nuts堅果.
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我們不嚼檳榔。
09:27
I met會見 also a family家庭 who have married已婚
the local本地 people here,
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5856
我也遇到一個家庭與當地人通婚,
09:33
and so this is what is happening事件.
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這就是實際情況。
09:37
As you go into another另一個 community社區,
there are bound to be changes變化.
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你進入另一個社區,
就會發生必然的改變。
09:40
There is bound to be
a certain某些 loss失利 of identity身分,
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4456
必然會喪失某種程度的認同感,
09:45
and this is what we will be
looking for in the future未來
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3456
這就是我們在未來會看到的現象,
09:48
if and when we do migrate遷移.
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如果我們選擇遷移。
09:51
CACA: It must必須 have been
just an extraordinarily異常 emotional情緒化 day
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克:那必定是非常激動的一天,
09:54
because of these questions問題 about identity身分,
178
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因為這些身分認同的問題,
09:57
the joy喜悅 of seeing眼看 you and perhaps也許
an emphasized強調 sense of what they had lost丟失.
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看到你的喜悅,
或許加強了他們的失落感。
10:02
And it's very inspiring鼓舞人心 to hear you say
you're going to fight鬥爭 to the end結束
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所以其實很讓人感動
聽到你說你要奮戰到底,
10:05
to try to preserve保留
the nation國家 in a location位置.
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試著讓這個國家保留在原地。
10:10
AT: This is our wish希望.
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1296
湯:這是我們的願望。
10:11
Nobody沒有人 wants ever to leave離開 their home,
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3056
沒有人想離開自己的家,
10:14
and so it's been
a very difficult decision決定 for me.
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3056
所以這對我是個很艱難的決定。
10:17
As a leader領導, you don't make plans計劃
to leave離開 your island, your home,
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你當領袖,不想計畫
離開你的島、你的家,
10:23
and so I've been asked
on a number of occasions場合,
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2256
我在不同的場合被問了好多次,
10:25
"So how do you feel?"
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「你有什麼感受?」
10:26
And it doesn't feel good at all.
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3136
這一點都不好受。
10:29
It's an emotional情緒化 thing,
and I've tried試著 to live生活 with it,
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3576
這是很感傷的事,
我一直試著與其共存,
10:33
and I know that on occasions場合, I'm accused被告
of not trying to solve解決 the problem問題
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4936
我知道有時候,
我被指責沒有試著解決問題,
10:38
because I can't solve解決 the problem問題.
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1976
因為我無法解決這個問題。
10:40
It's something that's got
to be doneDONE collectively.
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2816
這必須集體合作才做得到。
10:43
Climate氣候 change更改 is a global全球 phenomenon現象,
and as I've often經常 argued爭論,
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氣候變遷是全球現象,
正如我常提出的,
10:49
unfortunately不幸, the countries國家,
when we come to the United聯合的 Nations國家 --
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4496
不幸的是,各國到聯合國開會時,
10:53
I was in a meeting會議 with
the Pacific和平的 Island Forum論壇 countries國家
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4896
我與太平洋島國論壇國家開會,
10:58
where Australia澳大利亞 and New Zealand新西蘭
are also members會員,
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2496
澳洲及紐西蘭也是論壇成員,
11:01
and we had an argument論據.
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1736
我們有一項爭執。
11:02
There was a bit of a story故事 in the news新聞
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2696
新聞曾經報過一點,
11:05
because they were arguing爭論
that to cut emissions排放,
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因為他們認為要減少排放量
11:09
it would be something
that they're unable無法 to do
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2256
是他們做不到的事情,
11:12
because it would affect影響 the industries行業.
201
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3216
因為那會影響產業。
11:15
And so here I was saying,
202
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1456
我當時就說,
11:16
OK, I hear you,
203
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2216
是,我懂你的意思,
11:19
I understand理解 what you're saying,
204
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1656
我知道你在說什麼,
11:20
but try also to understand理解 what I'm saying
205
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2256
但也請試著瞭解我在說什麼,
11:23
because if you do not cut your emissions排放,
206
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2616
因為如果你不減少排放量,
11:25
then our survival生存 is on the line.
207
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2376
那我們的生存就岌岌可危。
11:28
And so it's a matter for you
to weigh稱重 this, these moral道德 issues問題.
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所以這是你要權衡的問題,
這些道德問題。
11:32
It's about industry行業 as opposed反對 to
the survival生存 of a people.
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這是產業對上人民存亡。
11:36
CACA: You know, I ask you yesterday昨天
what made製作 you angry憤怒,
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克:昨天我問你,
是什麼讓你生氣,
11:39
and you said, "I don't get angry憤怒."
But then you paused暫停.
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3496
你說:「我沒有生氣。」
但是你馬上頓了一下。
11:42
I think this made製作 you angry憤怒.
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我想這就是讓你生氣的原因。
11:44
AT: I'd refer參考 you to my earlier
statement聲明 at the United聯合的 Nations國家.
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4896
湯:我要向你指出
早先我在聯合國發表的聲明,
11:49
I was very angry憤怒, very frustrated受挫
and then depressed鬱悶.
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4936
我很生氣,非常灰心,
而且很消沉沮喪。
11:54
There was a sense of futility無用
215
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1976
有一種徒勞無功的感覺,
11:56
that we are fighting戰鬥 a fight鬥爭
that we have no hope希望 of winning勝利.
216
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5456
好像我們在打一場
毫無勝算的仗。
12:01
I had to change更改 my approach途徑.
217
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2176
我必須改變我的做法。
12:03
I had to become成為 more reasonable合理
218
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2096
我必須變得更理性,
12:05
because I thought people would listen
to somebody who was rational合理的,
219
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3143
因為我認為大家會聽
理性的人說話,
12:09
but I remain radically根本 rational合理的,
whatever隨你 that is.
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2569
但是我保持「極其理性」,
不管這是什麼意思。
12:11
(Laughter笑聲)
221
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(笑聲)
12:13
CACA: Now, a core核心 part部分
of your nation's國家 identity身分 is fishing釣魚.
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3736
克:你的國家最主要的部分是漁業,
12:17
I think you said pretty漂亮 much everyone大家
is involved參與 in fishing釣魚 in some way.
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724920
3496
我想你說過幾乎每個人
都跟漁業有點關係。
12:20
AT: Well, we eat fish
every一切 day, every一切 day,
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2776
湯:我們每天都吃魚,
天天如此,
12:23
and I think there is no doubt懷疑
that our rate of consumption消費 of fish
225
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4536
而且我想我們吃魚的量
12:28
is perhaps也許 the highest最高 in the world世界.
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2136
無疑可說是世界最高的,
12:30
We don't have a lot of livestock家畜,
227
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2456
我們沒有很多家畜,
12:32
so it's fish that we depend依靠 on.
228
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2776
所以我們都靠魚維生。
12:35
CACA: So you're dependent依賴的 on fish,
both at the local本地 level水平
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3136
克:所以你們都靠魚維生,
無論是從地方層面,
12:38
and for the revenues收入
that the country國家 receives收到
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還是這個國家
12:41
from the global全球 fishing釣魚 business商業 for tuna金槍魚,
231
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2576
從全球鮪魚業收到的
收入都是如此,
12:43
and yet然而 despite儘管 that, a few少數 years年份 ago
you took a very radical激進 step.
232
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4896
儘管如此,幾年前你採取了
一個非常激進的手段。
12:48
Can you tell us about that?
233
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1376
可以說明一下嗎?
12:50
I think something happened發生
right here in the Phoenix鳳凰 Islands島嶼.
234
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3336
我想跟鳳凰群島這裡
發生的事有關。
12:53
AT: Let me give some of the background背景
of what fish means手段 for us.
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湯:容我說明一下
魚對我們有何意義。
12:58
We have one of the largest最大
tuna金槍魚 fisheries漁業 remaining其餘 in the world世界.
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我們的鮪魚漁場
是全球現存極少數的大漁場。
13:02
In the Pacific和平的, I think we own擁有
something like 60 percent百分
237
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我想我們在太平洋
擁有世界僅存約六成的鮪魚漁場,
13:05
of the remaining其餘 tuna金槍魚 fisheries漁業,
238
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1896
13:07
and it remains遺跡 relatively相對 healthy健康
for some species種類, but not all.
239
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這個漁場對某些魚種來說還算健康,
但不是全都這樣。
13:11
And Kiribati基里巴斯 is one of the three
major重大的 resource資源 owners擁有者,
240
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吉里巴斯是三大資源擁有國之一,
13:18
tuna金槍魚 resource資源 owners擁有者.
241
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鮪魚資源擁有國。
13:19
And at the moment時刻, we have been getting得到
242
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目前我們收到的收入,
13:23
something like 80 to 90
percent百分 of our revenue收入
243
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2896
大約八成到九成
13:26
from access訪問 fees費用, license執照 fees費用.
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是入漁費、捕撈執照費。
13:28
CACA: Of your national國民 revenue收入.
245
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1856
克:你是指國庫收入。
13:30
AT: National國民 revenue收入,
246
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1816
湯:國庫收入,
13:32
which哪一個 drives驅動器 everything that we do
247
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推動我們所做的一切,
13:35
in governments政府, hospitals醫院,
schools學校 and what have you.
248
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政府、醫院、學校諸如此類。
13:39
But we decided決定 to close this,
and it was a very difficult decision決定.
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但是我們決定要關掉這個漁場,
這是非常困難的決定。
13:44
I can assure保證 you, politically政治上,
locally本地, it was not easy簡單,
250
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我可以向你保證,在政治上、
在當地發展上,都很困難,
13:50
but I was convinced相信 that we had to do this
251
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但是我堅信我們必須這麼做,
13:54
in order訂購 to ensure確保
that the fishery漁業 remains遺跡 sustainable可持續發展.
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以確保漁場能永續發展。
13:58
There had been some indications適應症
that some of the species種類,
253
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已經有指標指出有些魚種,
14:01
in particular特定 the bigeye大眼睛,
was under serious嚴重 threat威脅.
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尤其是大目鮪面臨嚴重威脅。
14:05
The yellowfin was also heavily嚴重 fished捕魚.
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黃鰭鮪也過度捕撈。
14:09
Skipjack飛魚 remains遺跡 healthy健康.
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鰹鮪還算豐沛。
14:10
And so we had to do something like that,
and so that was the reason原因 I did that.
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所以我們必須採取措施,
這也就是我做出此項決定的原因。
14:15
Another另一個 reason原因 why I did that
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另一個我做出這個決定的原因,
14:19
was because I had been asking
the international國際 community社區
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是因為我被國際社會質問,
14:24
that in order訂購 to deal合同 with climate氣候 change更改,
in order訂購 to fight鬥爭 climate氣候 change更改,
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為了要因應氣候變遷,
要對抗氣候變遷,
14:28
there has got to be sacrifice犧牲,
there has got to be commitment承諾.
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一定得有所犧牲,
一定得有所承諾。
14:32
So in asking the international國際 community社區
to make a sacrifice犧牲,
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在要求國際社會犧牲的同時,
14:38
I thought we ourselves我們自己
need to make that sacrifice犧牲.
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我想我們自己也得有所犧牲。
14:41
And so we made製作 the sacrifice犧牲.
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所以我們作出犧牲。
14:42
And forgoing前述 commercial廣告 fishing釣魚
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停止商業捕撈
14:47
in the Phoenix鳳凰 Islands島嶼 protected保護 area
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在鳳凰群島保護海域
14:50
would mean a loss失利 of revenue收入.
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意味著損失收入。
14:52
We are still trying to assess評估
what that loss失利 would be
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我們還在評估損失情況,
14:54
because we actually其實 closed關閉 it off
at the beginning開始 of this year,
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因為我們今年初才關閉漁場,
15:00
and so we will see by the end結束 of this year
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我們到今年年底才會知道
15:02
what it means手段 in terms條款
of the lost丟失 revenue收入.
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到底損失層面有多大。
15:05
CACA: So there's so many許多 things
playing播放 into this.
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克:所以這牽涉很廣。
15:08
On the one hand,
it may可能 prompt提示 healthier健康 fisheries漁業.
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一方面,這可以促使漁場更豐沛。
15:15
I mean, how much are you able能夠
to move移動 the price價錢 up
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那你能調漲多少
15:17
that you charge收費 for the remaining其餘 areas?
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其它僅存的漁場入漁費上?
15:20
AT: The negotiations談判
have been very difficult,
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湯:這方面的協商極為困難,
15:24
but we have managed管理
to raise提高 the cost成本 of a vessel船隻 day.
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但是我們已經成功調漲
每艘船每天的捕撈費。
15:28
For any vessel船隻
to come in to fish for a day,
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我們對進來捕魚的船隻
每日所收的費用,
已從每艘六千到八千元
15:31
we have raised上調 the fee費用 from --
it was $6,000 and $8,000,
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15:34
now to $10,000, $12,000 per vessel船隻 day.
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提高到現在的
一萬到一萬二千元。
15:39
And so there's been
that significant重大 increase增加.
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漲幅很顯著。
15:42
But at the same相同 time,
what's important重要 to note注意 is,
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但同時,要注意的重點是,
15:47
whereas in the past過去 these fishing釣魚 boats
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以往這些捕魚船
15:51
might威力 be fishing釣魚 in a day
and maybe catch抓住 10 tons,
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一天可能捕到十噸的魚,
15:55
now they're catching maybe 100 tons
because they've他們已經 become成為 so efficient高效.
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現在他們能捕到約一百噸,
因為船隻的效能變得很高。
15:59
And so we've我們已經 got to respond響應 likewise同樣.
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所以我們也要有所因應。
16:02
We've我們已經 got to be very, very careful小心
because the technology技術 has so improved改善.
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我們必須非常非常小心,
因為科技如此進步。
16:06
There was a time when the Brazilian巴西人 fleet艦隊
moved移動 from the Atlantic大西洋 to the Pacific和平的.
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過去巴西船隊曾經
想從大西洋移到太平洋。
16:11
They couldn't不能.
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他們沒成功。
16:12
They started開始 experimenting試驗
if they could, per seSE.
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他們開始嘗試是否可行。
16:16
But now they've他們已經 got ways方法 of doing it,
and they've他們已經 become成為 so efficient高效.
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現在他們做到了,
而且變得非常高效能。
16:21
CACA: Can you give us a sense
of what it's like in those negotiations談判?
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克:你能讓我們瞭解一下
這些協商是什麼嗎?
16:24
Because you're up against反對 companies公司
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因為你起來對抗的公司
16:26
that have hundreds數以百計 of millions百萬
of dollars美元 at stake賭注, essentially實質上.
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基本上在這投注了上億美元。
16:29
How do you hold保持 the line?
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你如何堅持不讓步?
16:33
Is there any advice忠告 you can give
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你有沒有什麼建言
16:35
to other leaders領導者 who are dealing交易
with the same相同 companies公司
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給其他在跟同樣公司
打交道的領袖?
16:38
about how to get
the most for your country國家,
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怎樣為你的國家爭取到最大利益,
16:42
get the most for the fish?
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怎樣為魚類爭取到最大利益?
16:46
What advice忠告 would you give?
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你有什麼建議?
16:48
AT: Well, I think we focus焦點
too often經常 on licensing許可
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湯:我想我們太著重在
捕撈執照費上,
16:54
in order訂購 to get the rate of return返回,
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為了報酬率的關係。
16:56
because what we are getting得到
from license執照 fees費用
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因為捕撈執照費用所得
16:59
is about 10 percent百分
of the landed登陸 value of the catch抓住
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大約是捕獲魚類
上岸價格的一成,
17:01
on the side of the wharf碼頭,
not in the retail零售 shops商店.
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是在碼頭上岸的價格,
不是店裡販售的價格。
17:04
And we only get about 10 percent百分.
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而我們只拿到約一成。
17:08
What we have been trying
to do over the years年份
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我們過去一直試著
17:11
is actually其實 to increase增加
our participation參與 in the industry行業,
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要更加實際參與該行業,
17:15
in the harvesting收穫, in the processing處理,
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參與捕撈、參與加工,
17:17
and eventually終於, hopefully希望, the marketing營銷.
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並希望最終能參與行銷。
17:19
They're not easy簡單 to penetrate穿透,
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這些都不容易打通,
17:23
but we are working加工 towards that,
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但是我們在想辦法,
17:25
and yes, the answer回答 would be to enhance提高.
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所以是的,答案是「增加」。
17:28
In order訂購 to increase增加 our rate of return返回,
we have to become成為 more involved參與.
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1036319
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為了增加我們的報酬率,
我們要更積極參與。
17:32
And so we've我們已經 started開始 doing that,
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所以我們開始這麼做,
17:35
and we have to restructure重組 the industry行業.
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而且我們必須重整該行業。
17:40
We've我們已經 got to tell these people
that the world世界 has changed.
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我們必須告訴這些人
世界已經改變。
17:43
Now we want to produce生產 the fish ourselves我們自己.
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現在我們想要自己
生產魚類加工品。
17:46
CACA: And meanwhile與此同時,
for your local本地 fishermen漁民,
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克:同時,貴國當地的漁夫,
17:48
they are still able能夠 to fish,
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他們還是可以捕魚,
17:51
but what is business商業 like for them?
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這個產業對他們又是如何?
17:53
Is it getting得到 harder更難?
Are the waters水域 depleted耗盡?
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1061600
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更艱難了嗎?
水域資源是否枯竭?
17:56
Or is that being存在 run
on a sustainable可持續發展 basis基礎?
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或是以永續基礎經營?
17:59
AT: For the artisanal手工 fishery漁業,
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湯:對傳統捕撈漁業,
18:01
we do not participate參加
in the commercial廣告 fishing釣魚 activity活動
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我們不參與商業的漁業活動,
18:04
except only to supply供應 the domestic國內 market市場.
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我們只供應國內市場。
18:07
The tuna金槍魚 fishery漁業 is really
entirely完全 for the foreign國外 market市場,
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鮪魚工業其實
完全是針對國外市場,
18:10
mostly大多 here in the US, Europe歐洲, Japan日本.
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絕大部分是在美國這裡,
還有歐洲、日本。
18:17
So I am a fisherman, very much,
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我自己可說是漁夫,
18:21
and I used to be able能夠 to catch抓住 yellowfin.
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以前我還能捕到黃鰭鮪。
18:24
Now it's very, very rare罕見
to be able能夠 to catch抓住 yellowfin
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現在很難捕到黃鰭鮪,
18:27
because they are being存在 lifted取消
out of the water by the hundreds數以百計 of tons
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因為現在都是以圍網漁船
從水中吊起幾百噸的魚。
18:30
by these purse錢包 seiners圍網.
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18:34
CACA: So here's這裡的 a couple一對
of beautiful美麗 girls女孩 from your country國家.
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克:這裡有幾位貴國的漂亮女孩。
18:39
I mean, as you think about their future未來,
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我想問,當你想到她們的未來,
18:42
what message信息 would you have for them
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你會跟她們說什麼?
18:45
and what message信息
would you have for the world世界?
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你會跟這個世界說什麼?
18:48
AT: Well, I've been telling告訴 the world世界
that we really have to do something
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湯:我一直對世界說
我們真的該採取行動
18:51
about what is happening事件 to the climate氣候
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1119733
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來因應氣候變遷,
18:53
because for us, it's about
the future未來 of these children孩子.
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因為對我們而言,
這是為了這些孩子的未來。
18:56
I have 12 grandchildren孫子, at least最小.
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我有 12 個孫子,至少吧?
18:58
I think I have 12, my wife妻子 knows知道.
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2016
我想我有 12 個,
我太太才知道。
19:00
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
19:02
And I think I have eight children孩子.
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我想我有 8 個孩子。
19:05
It's about their future未來.
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這是為了他們的未來。
19:07
Every一切 day I see my grandchildren孫子,
about the same相同 age年齡 as these young年輕 girls女孩,
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每天我都見到我的孫子,
跟這幾個小女孩差不多大,
19:10
and I do wonder奇蹟,
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我真的在想,
19:13
and I get angry憤怒 sometimes有時, yes I do.
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有時候我也很生氣,真的。
19:15
I wonder奇蹟 what is to become成為 of them.
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我在想他們會變成什麼樣。
19:17
And so it's about them
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所以這是為了他們,
19:20
that we should be telling告訴 everybody每個人,
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我們必須告訴每一個人,
19:23
that it's not about
their own擁有 national國民 interest利益,
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這不是為了他們自己國家的利益,
19:25
because climate氣候 change更改,
regrettably很遺憾, unfortunately不幸,
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因為氣候變遷,
很遺憾,很不幸
19:29
is viewed觀看 by many許多 countries國家
as a national國民 problem問題. It's not.
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被許多國家視為國家的問題。
並非如此。
19:33
And this is the argument論據
we got into recently最近 with our partners夥伴,
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1161000
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這是我們最近與
論壇夥伴爭論的問題,
19:36
the Australians澳大利亞人 and New Zealanders新西蘭人,
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就是澳洲人及紐西蘭人,
19:37
because they said,
"We can't cut any more."
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1165744
3312
因為他們說:
「我們不能再減了。」
19:41
This is what one of the leaders領導者,
the Australian澳大利亞 leader領導, said,
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1169080
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其中一位領袖,
澳洲領導人這麼說,
19:44
that we've我們已經 doneDONE our part部分,
we are cutting切割 back.
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我們盡了自己的責任,
我們都在縮減。
19:49
I said, What about the rest休息?
Why don't you keep it?
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我說,那其它的呢?
你為什麼不自己留著?
19:52
If you could keep
the rest休息 of your emissions排放
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如果你把你其它的排放物
19:55
within your boundaries邊界,
within your borders國界,
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1183400
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留在自己的疆界內,
留在你的邊界內,
19:57
we'd星期三 have no question.
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1185720
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我們就沒有問題。
19:59
You can go ahead as much as you like.
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你要怎麼排放都可以。
20:01
But unfortunately不幸,
you're sending發出 it our way,
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但不幸的是,
你把它排到我這裡,
20:03
and it's affecting影響
the future未來 of our children孩子.
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2191
而這會影響我們孩子的未來。
20:05
And so surely一定 I think that is the heart
of the problem問題 of climate氣候 change更改 today今天.
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1193735
5041
我很確定這就是今天
氣候變遷的核心問題所在。
20:11
We will be meeting會議 in Paris巴黎
at the end結束 of this year,
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我們今年年底將在巴黎開會,
20:14
but until直到 we can think of this
as a global全球 phenomenon現象,
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但是除非我們能視其為全球現象,
20:18
because we create創建 it,
individually個別地, as nations國家,
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因為雖然我們
是以各國為單位製造出,
20:21
but it affects影響 everybody每個人 else其他,
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1209120
1936
但這會影響其他每個人,
20:23
and yet然而, we refuse垃圾
to do anything about it,
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1211080
3616
然而,我們拒絕做任何事情,
20:26
and we deal合同 with it as a national國民 problem問題,
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2456
我們也認為這是各國的問題,
20:29
which哪一個 it is not -- it is a global全球 issue問題,
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並非如此,這是全球議題,
20:31
and it's got to be
dealt處理 with collectively.
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必須全球集思廣益。
20:35
CACA: People are incredibly令人難以置信 bad
at responding響應 to graphs and numbers數字,
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4336
克:大家對圖表及數字的反應很差,
20:39
and we shut關閉 our minds頭腦 to it.
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3776
我們的頭腦在這方面不太靈光。
20:43
Somehow不知何故, to people, we're slightly better
at responding響應 to that sometimes有時.
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6256
好像大家對人物比較有反應。
20:49
And it seems似乎 like it's
very possible可能 that your nation國家,
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2936
現在看來,你的國家似乎會
20:52
despite儘管, actually其實 because of
the intense激烈 problems問題 you face面對,
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——儘管其實是因為
你們面對極為棘手的問題——
20:57
you may可能 yet然而 be the warning警告 light
to the world世界 that shines most visibly明顯地,
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你們會成為這世界最閃亮、
21:02
most powerfully有力.
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1249920
1976
最有力的警告之光。
21:04
I just want to thank you,
I'm sure, on behalf代表 of all of us,
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我僅代表在座各位
在此對你致謝,
21:06
for your extraordinary非凡 leadership領導
and for being存在 here.
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謝謝你非凡的領導,
也謝謝你撥冗參加。
21:09
Mr先生. President主席, thank you so much.
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總統先生,非常謝謝你。
21:11
AT: Thank you.
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773
湯:謝謝!
21:11
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Regina Chu
Reviewed by Marssi Draw

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Anote Tong - President of the Republic of Kiribati
Anote Tong has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change.

Why you should listen

His Excellency Anote Tong is the fourth President of the Republic of Kiribati. He was first elected as President on 10 July 2003 and subsequently won two more elections in 2007 and in 2012. He is now serving his last term, which will end in mid-2015. Under his leadership, President Anote Tong also holds the portfolio of Head of State and Minister of Foreign Affairs and Immigration.

Anote Tong was born in 1952 on Fanning Island (also known as Tabuaeran) in the Line Islands and is a member of the Kiribati House of Parliament from the constituency of Maiana Island in the central Kiribati group.

Educated in New Zealand and in England at the University of Canterbury and the London School of Economics respectively, President Tong holds a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Economics under his belt.

Since the beginning of his presidency, President Anote Tong has become a strong climate change advocate and has built worldwide awareness of the potentially devastating impacts of climate change.

He has stated on many occasions that Kiribati may cease to exist altogether and that its entire population may need to be resettled not as climate change refugees but as citizens who migrate on merit and with dignity.

With one of the lowest carbon-emission footprints in the world, Tong has often described Kiribati as a “frontline country” that has been among the first to experience dramatic climate change impacts.

As an extraordinary measure to set an example for the rest of the world, President Tong created the Phoenix Islands Protected Area, one of the largest marine protected areas in the world with a size of 408,250 square kilometers which was inscribed as a United Nations World Heritage site in 2008.

President Tong has won a number of awards and recognition that acknowledges his contribution and leadership on climate change and ocean conservation.

More profile about the speaker
Anote Tong | Speaker | TED.com