TEDWomen 2010
Elizabeth Lesser: Take "the Other" to lunch
伊丽莎白·莱瑟：与“异见者”共进午餐
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紧张分裂的气氛会威胁并阻碍现代政治进程。伊丽莎白·莱瑟发掘出制造这种紧张气氛的人性两方面，并将它们分别称为“神秘者”和“战士”。她也分享了一个简单亲切的方法来展开一段实质性的对话——与跟你观点相左的人共进午餐，并通过询问他们三个问题来发现他们心里真正的想法。
Elizabeth Lesser - Wellness specialist
Elizabeth Lesser helps her readers and students transform their lives after brushes with pain, adversity and life's myriad problems. Full bio
Elizabeth Lesser helps her readers and students transform their lives after brushes with pain, adversity and life's myriad problems. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
This room may appear
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这个会场看起来
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to be holding 600 people,
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能容纳600人，
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but there's actually so many more,
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但事实上这里却有更多人，
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because in each one of us
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因为我们中的每一个人
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there is a multitude of personalities.
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都有多重性格。
00:26
I have two primary personalities
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从我还是个小女孩时起，我就有两个主要性格。
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that have been in conflict and conversation within me
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这两个性格在我体内
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since I was a little girl.
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不断有冲突与对话。
00:33
I call them "the mystic"
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我把它们称为“神秘者”
00:35
and "the warrior."
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和“战士”。
00:37
I was born into a family
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我出身于一个
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of politically active,
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在政治上十分活跃
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intellectual atheists.
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并信仰无神论的知识分子家庭。
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There was this equation in my family that went something like this:
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在我家有这样一个公式：
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if you are intelligent,
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如果你有才智，
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you therefore are not spiritual.
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那么你就不会是个精神丰富的人。
00:51
I was the freak of the family.
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我是家里的怪人。
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I was this weird little kid
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我是一个奇特的小孩，
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who wanted to have deep talks
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我想与
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about the worlds that might exist
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可能存在的另一个世界展开深入对话，
01:00
beyond the ones that we perceive with our senses.
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它超越了我们所能感知到的这个世界。
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I wanted to know
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我想知道
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if what we human beings see
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我们人类所看到、
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and hear and think
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听到和想到的，
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is a full and accurate picture
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是不是与事物的真相
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of reality.
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一模一样。
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So, looking for answers,
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为了寻找答案，
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I went to Catholic mass.
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我做过天主教弥撒；
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I tagged along with my neighbors.
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我尾随过我的邻居；
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I read Sartre and Socrates.
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我读过萨特和苏格拉底。
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And then a wonderful thing happened
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当我上高中时，
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when I was in high school:
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一件神奇的事情发生了：
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Gurus from the East
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东方的精神导师
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started washing up on the shores of America.
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开始席卷美国沿岸。
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And I said to myself,
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我对自己说，
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"I wanna get me one of them."
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“我想成为他们中的一员。”
01:35
And ever since,
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自从那以后，
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I've been walking the mystic path,
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我一直在神秘的道路上行进，
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trying to peer beyond
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努力摆脱
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what Albert Einstein called
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爱因斯坦所说的
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"the optical delusion
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“日常生活中的
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of everyday consciousness."
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错觉幻象。”
01:49
So what did he mean by this? I'll show you.
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他这是指什么呢？让我展示给你。
01:52
Take a breath right now
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请呼吸，
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of this clear air in this room.
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吸入房间里的新鲜空气。
01:58
Now, see this strange,
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现在，看到这个奇怪的，
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underwater,
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生活在水下，
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coral reef-looking thing?
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看上去像是珊瑚礁的东西了吗？
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It's actually a person's trachea,
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这其实是人的气管。
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and those colored globs
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而这些彩色水珠
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are microbes
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实际上是微生物，
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that are actually swimming around in this room
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它们现在就在这房间里，
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right now, all around us.
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就在我们周围。
02:18
If we're blind to this simple biology,
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如果我们对这种基础的生物学一无所知，
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imagine what we're missing
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想想看我们会错过多少
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at the smallest subatomic level right now
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在最微小的亚原子间
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and at the grandest cosmic levels.
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和在最壮观的宇宙间的发现。
02:30
My years as a mystic
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我作为一个神秘者的岁月
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have made me question
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几乎使我对自己所有的假设
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almost all my assumptions.
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都产生了疑问。
02:37
They've made me a proud I-don't-know-it-all.
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它们让我勇于承认自己的无知。
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Now when the mystic part of me
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当我身上的神秘部分
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jabbers on and on like this,
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含糊地这么说时，
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the warrior rolls her eyes.
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战士翻了一下眼睛。
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She's concerned
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她现在关心
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about what's happening in this world right now.
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这世上发生的事。
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She's worried.
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她很担忧。
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She says, "Excuse me, I'm pissed off,
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她说，“对不起，我很生气，
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and I know a few things,
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我知道一些事，
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and we better get busy about them right now."
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现在我们最好忙于此事。”
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I've spent my life as a warrior,
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我到目前为止都是一个战士，
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working for women's issues,
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为妇女权利而努力，
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working on political campaigns,
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从事政治活动，
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being an activist for the environment.
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成为一名保护环境的积极分子。
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And it can be sort of crazy-making,
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这可能有点疯狂，
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housing both the mystic and the warrior
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让神秘者和战士同时存在
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in one body.
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于我的身体内。
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I've always been attracted
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我一直被那些
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to those rare people
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杰出人物所吸引。
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who pull that off,
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他们把自己的一生
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who devote their lives to humanity
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都奉献给人道事业，
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with the grit of the warrior
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并能集战士的毅力
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and the grace of the mystic --
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和神秘者的魅力于一身。
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people like Martin Luther King, Jr.,
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像马丁·路德·金，
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who wrote, "I can never be
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他写道，“我永远无法成为
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what I ought to be
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我要成为的人，
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until you are
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直到你成为了
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what you ought to be.
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你想要成为的人。
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This," he wrote, "is the interrelated structure
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这就是真理之间
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of reality."
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相互关联的结构。“
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Then Mother Teresa, another mystic warrior,
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又例如特雷莎修女，另一个神秘家兼战士，
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who said, "The problem with the world
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她说，“这个世界上的问题
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is that we draw the circle of our family
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是我们对家人的定义
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too small."
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太小了。”
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And Nelson Mandela,
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又比如纳尔逊·曼德拉，
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who lives by the African concept
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他一直都信奉
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of "ubuntu,"
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非洲的Ubuntu概念，
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which means "I need you
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意思是我需要你
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in order to be me,
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才能成为我，
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and you need me in order to be you."
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你也需要我来完善你自己。
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Now we all love to trot out
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我们所有人都爱拿
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these three mystic warriors
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这三个神秘者兼战士举例，
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as if they were born
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好像他们自出生
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with the saint gene.
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就带有圣徒的印记。
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But we all actually have
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但是事实上我们每个人都有
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the same capacity that they do,
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和他们一样的能力，
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and we need to do
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我们现在需要
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their work now.
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继续他们的工作。
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I'm deeply disturbed
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我对于通过
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by the ways in which all of our cultures
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我们自身的文化来妖魔化那些
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are demonizing "the Other"
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与己不同的文化而深感不安，
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by the voice we're giving
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我们恶语相向，
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to the most divisive among us.
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在我们之中造成最大的分歧。
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Listen to these titles
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听听这些
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of some of the bestselling books
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畅销书的书名，
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from both sides of the political divide
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它们来自美国政治立场
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here in the U.S.
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的两方面。
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"Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder,"
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《自由主义是一种精神缺陷》
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"Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot,"
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《拉什·林堡是个大白痴》
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"Pinheads and Patriots,"
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《笨蛋与爱国者》
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"Arguing With Idiots."
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《与白痴争论》
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They're supposedly tongue-in-cheek,
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它们大概是挖苦人的，
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but they're actually dangerous.
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但这么说却很危险。
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Now here's a title that may sound familiar,
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下面这个书名听上去或许觉得耳熟，
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but whose author may surprise you:
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但它的作者可能会把你吓一跳：
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"Four-and-a-Half-Years of Struggle
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《对抗谎言、愚蠢
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Against Lies, Stupidity
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和胆怯
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and Cowardice."
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的四年半》
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Who wrote that?
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这是谁写的？
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That was Adolf Hitler's first title
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这是阿道夫·希特勒
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for "Mein Kampf" -- "My Struggle" --
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《我的奋斗》的最初书名，
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the book that launched the Nazi party.
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一本由纳粹党发行的书。
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The worst eras in human history,
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人类历史上最糟糕的年代，
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whether in Cambodia or Germany
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无论是在柬埔寨、德国
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or Rwanda,
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或者卢旺达，
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they start like this, with negative other-izing.
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都是通过丑化异见人士而开始。
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And then they morph
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这之后就会升级
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into violent extremism.
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成为暴力的极端主义。
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This is why I'm launching a new initiative.
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这也是我有一个新举动的原因。
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And it's to help all of us,
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它对我们所有人都有益处，
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myself included,
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包括我自己，
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to counteract the tendency
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它可以抵消我们
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to "otherize."
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排斥异见者的趋势。
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And I realize we're all busy people,
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我意识到我们都是非常忙的人，
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so don't worry, you can do this on a lunch break.
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所以不必担心，你可以在午休时做这件事。
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I'm calling my initiative,
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我把这个举动称为
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"Take the Other to Lunch."
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“与异见者共进午餐”。
06:07
If you are
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如果你是
06:09
a Republican,
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一个共和党人，
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you can take a Democrat to lunch,
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你可以和一个民主党人一起吃午饭；
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or if you're a Democrat,
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又比如说
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think of it
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你是个民主党人，
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as taking a Republican to lunch.
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那就和一个共和党人一起吃午饭吧。
06:21
Now if the idea of taking any of these people to lunch
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如果和这些人一起吃午饭的想法
06:24
makes you lose your appetite,
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会使你失去胃口，
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I suggest you start more local,
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我建议你从身旁的人开始，
06:30
because there is no shortage of the Other
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因为你的左邻右舍中并不缺少
06:33
right in your own neighborhood.
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和你意见不同的人。
06:36
Maybe that person
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或许是一个
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who worships at the mosque,
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在清真寺做礼拜的人；
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or the church or the synagogue, down the street.
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或许是一个基督徒或犹太教徒；
06:43
Or someone from the other side
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或许那个人和你
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of the abortion conflict.
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对于堕胎持有不同意见；
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Or maybe your brother-in-law
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甚至可能是你姐姐的那位
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who doesn't believe in global warming.
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不相信全球变暖的丈夫；
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Anyone whose lifestyle may frighten you,
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或者一个与你的生活方式截然不同的人；
06:58
or whose point of view
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或者是一个人，他的观点
07:00
makes smoke come out of your ears.
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让你听了后会怒不可遏。
07:04
A couple of weeks ago,
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几个星期前，
07:06
I took a Conservative Tea Party woman to lunch.
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我与一个参加茶话会的保守党女人共进午餐。
07:11
Now on paper, she passed my smoking ears test.
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从表面上看，她的观点会让我怒不可遏。
07:15
She's an activist from the Right,
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她是一个右翼活动家，
07:17
and I'm an activist from the Left.
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而我是一个左翼活动家。
07:21
And we used some guidelines
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我们使用一些原则
07:23
to keep our conversation elevated,
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使得我们的对话进行下去，
07:25
and you can use them too,
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你也可以使用它们，
07:27
because I know you're all going
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因为我知道大家都会
07:29
to take an Other to lunch.
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与持有不同观点的人共进午餐。
07:31
So first of all, decide on a goal:
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首先，确定一个目标：
07:34
to get to know one person
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那就是要去了解一个人，
07:36
from a group you may have negatively stereotyped.
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并且你对他所在的团体有成见。
07:41
And then, before you get together,
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然后，在你们见面之前，
07:43
agree on some ground rules.
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就这些基本原则达成一致。
07:45
My Tea Party lunchmate and I
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我的午饭伙伴和我
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came up with these:
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一同想出这些原则：
07:50
don't persuade, defend
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不要试图说服、捍卫
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or interrupt.
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或者中途打断。
07:54
Be curious;
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要保有好奇，
07:56
be conversational; be real.
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要有真诚的交流，
07:58
And listen.
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要聆听。
08:00
From there, we dove in.
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达成一致后，我们用下面几个问题
08:02
And we used these questions:
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开始深入交流：
08:04
Share some of your life experiences with me.
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请和我分享一些你的生活经历。
08:07
What issues
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你最关注
08:09
deeply concern you?
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哪些事件？
08:11
And what have you always wanted to ask
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你一直想从与你不同的人
08:13
someone from the other side?
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身上了解什么？
08:16
My lunch partner and I
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我和我午饭伙伴
08:18
came away with some really important insights,
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得出一些重要的启示，
08:20
and I'm going to share just one with you.
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我想和大家分享其中的一个。
08:23
I think it has relevance
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我想这个观点
08:25
to any problem
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与人们之间的问题
08:27
between people anywhere.
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无论何时何地都有关联。
08:29
I asked her why her side
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我问她为什么她所在的阵营
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makes such outrageous allegations
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对我们进行无理的指控
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and lies about my side.
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以及编造谎言。
08:37
"What?" she wanted to know.
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她想知道具体的例子。
08:39
"Like we're a bunch
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“好像我们是一群
08:41
of elitist,
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道德败坏
08:43
morally-corrupt terrorist-lovers."
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爱好恐怖主义的精英。”
08:45
Well, she was shocked.
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她相当震惊。
08:47
She thought my side
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她认为是我们
08:49
beat up on her side way more often,
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更经常地抨击他们。
08:52
that we called them brainless,
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比如我们称他们为无脑的
08:54
gun-toting racists,
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持枪种族主义者。
08:57
and we both marveled
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我们都惊讶于
08:59
at the labels that fit
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这些标签
09:01
none of the people
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不适用于
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we actually know.
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我们认识的任何一个人。
09:05
And since we had established some trust,
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因为我们已建立起某种信任，
09:07
we believed in each other's sincerity.
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我们相信彼此的真诚。
09:11
We agreed we'd speak up in our own communities
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我们都同意当下次
09:14
when we witnessed
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在自己所在的阵营里听到
09:16
the kind of "otherizing" talk
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可能造成伤害或过于偏执
09:18
that can wound
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甚至被别有用心的人利用
09:20
and fester into paranoia
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进而煽动人群的排他言论时，
09:22
and then be used by those on the fringes
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我们要出言制止
09:25
to incite.
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这种情况。
09:27
By the end of our lunch,
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在我们的午餐结束时，
09:29
we acknowledged each other's openness.
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我们感谢彼此的坦诚。
09:31
Neither of us had tried to change the other.
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我们谁也不试图去改变对方。
09:34
But we also hadn't pretended
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但我们也不必假装
09:37
that our differences were just going to melt away
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彼此间的差异会随着午餐而
09:40
after a lunch.
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消失不见。
09:45
Instead, we had taken
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相反，我们一同
09:47
first steps together,
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迈出了第一步，
09:49
past our knee-jerk reactions,
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突破我们的下意识反应，
09:51
to the ubuntu place,
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来到一个Ubuntu的境界，
09:53
which is the only place
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只有这样，
09:55
where solutions
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我们才能找到
09:57
to our most intractable-seeming problems
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解决表面上最棘手的问题
10:01
will be found.
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的方法。
10:03
Who should you invite to lunch?
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那么你会和谁共进午餐呢？
10:06
Next time you catch yourself
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下一次当你碰到
10:08
in the act of otherizing,
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某种排他行为时，
10:10
that will be your clue.
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那会是一个提示。
10:12
And what might happen at your lunch?
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在你午饭时会发生什么？
10:15
Will the heavens open
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天堂会敞开吗？
10:17
and "We Are the World" play over the restaurant sound system?
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音响里会传来“四海一家”的音乐吗？
10:20
Probably not.
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很可能不会。
10:22
Because ubuntu work is slow,
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因为Ubuntu的进程十分缓慢，
10:24
and it's difficult.
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并且很难。
10:26
It's two people
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要有两个人
10:28
dropping the pretense
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解除无所不知
10:30
of being know-it-alls.
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的伪装；
10:32
It's two people,
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要有两个人，
10:34
two warriors,
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两个战士，
10:36
dropping their weapons
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放下他们的武器
10:38
and reaching toward each other.
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彼此互相接近。
10:41
Here's how the great Persian poet Rumi put it:
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伟大的波斯诗人鲁米是这么说的：
10:45
"Out beyond ideas
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“超越思想上的
10:48
of wrong-doing and right-doing,
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坏与好，
10:51
there is a field.
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有一片天地，
10:53
I'll meet you there."
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你我将会相遇。”
10:55
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Elizabeth Lesser - Wellness specialistElizabeth Lesser helps her readers and students transform their lives after brushes with pain, adversity and life's myriad problems.
Why you should listen
Elizabeth Lesser is a bestselling author and the cofounder of Omega Institute, the renowned conference and retreat center located in Rhinebeck, New York. Lesser's first book, The Seeker's Guide, chronicles her years at Omega and distills lessons learned into a potent guide for growth and healing. Her New York Times bestselling book, Broken Open: How Difficult Times Can Help Us Grow (Random House), has sold more than 300,000 copies and has been translated into 20 languages. Her latest book, Marrow: A Love Story (Harper Collins/September 2016), is a memoir about Elizabeth and her younger sister, Maggie, and the process they went through when Elizabeth was the donor for Maggie’s bone marrow transplant.
Lesser cofounded Omega Institute in 1977 -- a time when a variety of fresh ideas were sprouting in American culture. Since then, the institute has been at the forefront of holistic education, offering workshops and trainings in: integrative medicine, prevention, nutrition, and the mind/body connection; meditation and yoga; cross-cultural arts and creativity; ecumenical spirituality; and social change movements like women's empowerment and environmental sustainability. Lesser is also the cofounder of Omega's Women's Leadership Center, which grew out of the popular Women & Power conference series featuring women leaders, activists, authors and artists from around the world. Each year more than 30,000 people participate in Omega's programs on its campus in Rhinebeck, New York and at urban and travel sites, and more than a million people visit its website for online learning.
A student of the Sufi master, Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan, for many years, Lesser has also studied with spiritual teachers, healers, psychologists and philosophers from other traditions. In 2008 she helped Oprah Winfrey produce a ten-week online seminar based on Eckhart Tolle's book, A New Earth. The webinar was viewed by more than 8 million people worldwide. She was a frequent host on Oprah's "Soul Series," a weekly radio show on Sirius/XM, and a guest on Oprah's "Super Soul Sunday." In 2011, she gave a TED Talk, "Take 'the Other' to lunch ," in which she called for civility and understanding as we negotiate our differences as human beings.
Lesser attended Barnard College, where she studied literature, and San Francisco State University, where she received a teaching degree. In 2011 she received an honorary doctorate from the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, in Palo Alto, California. Early in her career she was a midwife and birth educator. Today, besides writing and her work at Omega Institute, she lends her time to social and environmental causes and is an avid walker, cook and gardener. She lives with her family in New York's Hudson River Valley.
Elizabeth Lesser | Speaker | TED.com