TED2015
Martine Rothblatt: My daughter, my wife, our robot, and the quest for immortality
马蒂娜·罗斯布拉特: 我的女儿，我的妻子，我们的智能人，及对永生的追求
Filmed:
Readability: 4.4
1,489,265 views
天狼星XM卫星广播系统的创始人，马蒂娜·罗斯布拉特现在领导一家医药公司，生产治疗罕见病的特效药（其中一种药救了她自己的女儿）。与此同时，她致力于将自己深爱的女人的意识保存在数据文件中，并制造成机器人伴侣。在这场与TED的克里斯·安德森的对话中，罗斯布拉特分享了她富有感染力故事，关于爱情，身份，创造力，以及无尽的可能性。
Martine Rothblatt - Transhumanist
Whether she’s inventing satellite radio, developing life-saving drugs or digitizing the human mind, Martine Rothblatt has a knack for turning visionary ideas into commonplace technology. Full bio
Whether she’s inventing satellite radio, developing life-saving drugs or digitizing the human mind, Martine Rothblatt has a knack for turning visionary ideas into commonplace technology. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Chris Anderson: So I guess
what we're going to do is
what we're going to do is
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克里斯 安德森：我想我们这样
00:14
we're going to talk about your life,
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我们先谈谈你的生活，
00:17
and using some pictures
that you shared with me.
that you shared with me.
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跟大家分享一下
你之前给我看的一些照片。
你之前给我看的一些照片。
00:20
And I think we should start
right here with this one.
right here with this one.
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咱们就从这张开始。
00:23
Okay, now who is this?
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这位是谁？
00:26
Martine Rothblatt: This is me
with our oldest son Eli.
with our oldest son Eli.
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马蒂娜 罗斯布拉特：这是我
和我的大儿子以利。
和我的大儿子以利。
00:31
He was about age five.
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他那时大约五岁。
00:33
This is taken in Nigeria
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这是在尼日利亚照的，
00:35
right after having taken
the Washington, D.C. bar exam.
the Washington, D.C. bar exam.
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就在我刚刚参加完华盛顿特区的
律师资格考试。
律师资格考试。
00:39
CA: Okay. But this doesn't
really look like a Martine.
really look like a Martine.
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克：好的。但这看上去不太像马蒂娜。
00:44
MR: Right. That was myself as a male,
the way I was brought up.
the way I was brought up.
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马：是的。那时我还是男性，
我是作为男性出生长大。
我是作为男性出生长大。
那是在我做完变性手术，
从马丁变为马蒂娜之前。
从马丁变为马蒂娜之前。
00:51
Before I transitioned from male
to female and Martin to Martine.
to female and Martin to Martine.
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00:55
CA: You were brought up Martin Rothblatt.
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克：你是以马丁 罗斯布拉特的身份长大的。
00:57
MR: Correct.
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马：是的。
00:58
CA: And about a year after this picture,
you married a beautiful woman.
you married a beautiful woman.
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克：在拍完这张照片之后大概一年，
你迎娶了一位美丽的姑娘。
你迎娶了一位美丽的姑娘。
01:03
Was this love at first sight?
What happened there?
What happened there?
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是一见钟情么？
当时是什么情况？
当时是什么情况？
01:05
MR: It was love at the first sight.
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马：的确是一见钟情。
01:07
I saw Bina at a discotheque
in Los Angeles,
in Los Angeles,
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我是在洛杉矶的一个
迪斯科舞厅遇见的碧娜。
迪斯科舞厅遇见的碧娜。
01:12
and we later began living together,
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后来我们住在了一起，
01:15
but the moment I saw her,
I saw just an aura of energy around her.
I saw just an aura of energy around her.
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但从我见到她的那一刻起，
我就看到她所带着的能量。
我就看到她所带着的能量。
01:19
I asked her to dance.
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我请她跳舞。
01:21
She said she saw an aura
of energy around me.
of energy around me.
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她说她也看到我所带的能量。
01:24
I was a single male parent.
She was a single female parent.
She was a single female parent.
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我那时是个单身爸爸，
她是个单身妈妈。
她是个单身妈妈。
01:27
We showed each other
our kids' pictures,
our kids' pictures,
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我们给彼此看了孩子的照片，
01:30
and we've been happily married
for a third of a century now.
for a third of a century now.
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现在我们已经在婚姻里
幸福的度过了1/3个世纪。
幸福的度过了1/3个世纪。
01:34
(Applause)
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（掌声）
01:38
CA: And at the time, you were
kind of this hotshot entrepreneur,
kind of this hotshot entrepreneur,
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克：那时候你算是个炙手可热的创业者，
01:41
working with satellites.
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做卫星方面的工作。
01:43
I think you had two successful companies,
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你那时已经有了两个成功的公司，
01:45
and then you started
addressing this problem
addressing this problem
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然后你开始新的挑战，
01:47
of how could you use satellites
to revolutionize radio.
to revolutionize radio.
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思考如何通过卫星来变革广播。
01:52
Tell us about that.
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给我们讲讲这个。
01:53
MR: Right. I always
loved space technology,
loved space technology,
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马：是的。我一直热爱太空科技，
01:55
and satellites, to me, are sort of
like the canoes that our ancestors
like the canoes that our ancestors
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卫星对我而言，像是我们祖先
01:59
first pushed out into the water.
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第一次推到水里的独木舟。
02:02
So it was exciting for me
to be part of the navigation
to be part of the navigation
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能够在浩瀚星海遨游，
02:05
of the oceans of the sky,
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特别让我激动。
02:07
and as I developed different types
of satellite communication systems,
of satellite communication systems,
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所以我开发了多种卫星通讯系统，
02:12
the main thing I did was to launch
bigger and more powerful satellites,
bigger and more powerful satellites,
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主要致力于发射
更大，更强的卫星，
更大，更强的卫星，
02:17
the consequence of which
was that the receiving antennas
was that the receiving antennas
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这样一来，接收天线
02:21
could be smaller and smaller,
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就可以越来越小，
02:23
and after going through
direct television broadcasting,
direct television broadcasting,
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在电视直播技术出现后，
02:27
I had the idea that if we could make
a more powerful satellite,
a more powerful satellite,
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我想到，如果能制造一颗
更加强大的卫星，
更加强大的卫星，
02:30
the receiving dish could be so small
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接收盘就可以做的特别小，
02:33
that it would just be a section
of a parabolic dish,
of a parabolic dish,
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尺寸只是抛物面反射器的一小部分，
02:36
a flat little plate embedded
into the roof of an automobile,
into the roof of an automobile,
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小到可以装在汽车顶部，
02:40
and it would be possible to have
nationwide satellite radio,
nationwide satellite radio,
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这样全国性的卫星广播就成为可能，
02:44
and that's Sirius XM today.
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这就是今天的“天狼星XM卫星广播系统”。
02:46
CA: Wow. So who here has used Sirius?
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克：哇。这里有人用过天狼星吗？
02:48
(Applause)
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（掌声）
02:51
MR: Thank you for
your monthly subscriptions.
your monthly subscriptions.
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马：谢谢你们每个月的会费。
02:53
(Laughter)
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（掌声）
02:56
CA: So that succeeded despite
all predictions at the time.
all predictions at the time.
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克：所以说，尽管那时有各种猜测，
但这件事成功了。
但这件事成功了。
03:00
It was a huge commercial success,
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是一次巨大的商业成功，
03:02
but soon after this, in the early 1990s,
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但没过多久，在90年代初，
03:07
there was this big transition in your life
and you became Martine.
and you became Martine.
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你的生活发生了巨变，
你成为了马蒂娜。
你成为了马蒂娜。
03:11
MR: Correct.
CA: So tell me, how did that happen?
CA: So tell me, how did that happen?
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马：是的。
克：能给我讲讲当时的情况吗？
克：能给我讲讲当时的情况吗？
03:17
MR: It happened in consultation with Bina
and our four beautiful children,
and our four beautiful children,
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马：我事先和碧娜以及
我们的四个可爱的孩子商量过
我们的四个可爱的孩子商量过
03:23
and I discussed with each of them
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我和他们单独讨论的。
03:28
that I felt my soul was always female,
and as a woman,
and as a woman,
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我一直觉得我的内心是女性，
03:34
but I was afraid people would
laugh at me if I expressed it,
laugh at me if I expressed it,
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可我又担心如果表达出来
会被人笑话，
会被人笑话，
03:39
so I always kept it bottled up
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所以我一直藏在心里
03:41
and just showed my male side.
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只表现我男性的一面。
03:44
And each of them
had a different take on this.
had a different take on this.
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每个人的反应都不一样。
03:48
Bina said, "I love your soul,
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碧娜说，“我爱你的灵魂，
03:52
and whether the outside
is Martin and Martine,
is Martin and Martine,
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至于外表上是马丁还是马蒂娜，
03:56
it doesn't it matter to me,
I love your soul."
I love your soul."
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我不在乎，我爱的是你的灵魂。”
03:58
My son said, "If you become a woman,
will you still be my father?"
will you still be my father?"
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我儿子说，“你变成女人后，
还是我爸爸吗？”
还是我爸爸吗？”
04:06
And I said, "Yes,
I'll always be your father,"
I'll always be your father,"
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我回答，“是，我永远是你的爸爸。“
04:09
and I'm still his father today.
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我今天依然是他的父亲。
04:12
My youngest daughter did an absolutely
brilliant five-year-old thing.
brilliant five-year-old thing.
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我的小女儿做了件特别棒的
五岁小孩做的事，
五岁小孩做的事，
04:17
She told people, "I love my dad
and she loves me."
and she loves me."
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她说，“我爱我爸爸，她也爱我。”
她对性别混淆什么的还挺接受。
04:23
So she had no problem
with a gender blending whatsoever.
with a gender blending whatsoever.
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04:28
CA: And a couple years after this,
you published this book:
you published this book:
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克：那之后一两年，
你出版了这本书：
你出版了这本书：
04:31
"The Apartheid of Sex."
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”性别上的种族隔离“
04:33
What was your thesis in this book?
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你这本书持什么论点呢？
04:35
MR: My thesis in this book is that there
are seven billion people in the world,
are seven billion people in the world,
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马：我的论点是，世界上有70亿人口，
04:39
and actually, seven billion unique ways
to express one's gender.
to express one's gender.
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就有70亿种独特的方式来展现性别。
04:45
And while people may have
the genitals of a male or a female,
the genitals of a male or a female,
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尽管人类有男性和女性两种生殖器官，
04:51
the genitals don't determine your gender
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但生殖器官并不决定你的性别
04:54
or even really your sexual identity.
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甚至你真正的性别身份。
04:57
That's just a matter of anatomy
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那是一个解剖学上的问题，
04:59
and reproductive tracts,
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生殖道的问题，
05:00
and people could choose
whatever gender they want
whatever gender they want
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人应该对他们的性别有选择权
05:04
if they weren't forced by society
into categories of either male or female
into categories of either male or female
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而不是被社会强行划分为男性或是女性
05:09
the way South Africa used to force people
into categories of black or white.
into categories of black or white.
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就像南非过去把人划分为黑人和白人。
05:13
We know from anthropological science
that race is fiction,
that race is fiction,
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从人类学的角度上讲，
种族是虚构的，
种族是虚构的，
05:17
even though racism is very, very real,
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尽管种族主义是千真万确的存在，
05:20
and we now know from cultural studies
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从文化研究的角度讲
05:23
that separate male or female genders
is a constructed fiction.
is a constructed fiction.
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男性和女性也是虚构的。
现实情况是性别是流动的，
05:27
The reality is a gender fluidity
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05:30
that crosses the entire continuum
from male to female.
from male to female.
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是在男性与女性之间的
一个连续统一体。
一个连续统一体。
05:34
CA: You yourself don't always
feel 100 percent female.
feel 100 percent female.
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克：你自己也并不是总是
百分之百感觉自己是女性
百分之百感觉自己是女性
05:37
MR: Correct. I would say in some ways
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马：对。从某种角度上说
05:40
I change my gender about as often
as I change my hairstyle.
as I change my hairstyle.
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我在性别上的变换和
我发型的变换同样频繁。
我发型的变换同样频繁。
05:43
CA: (Laughs) Okay, now, this is
your gorgeous daughter, Jenesis.
your gorgeous daughter, Jenesis.
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克：（笑）好吧。
这是你美丽的女儿，吉纳塞斯。
这是你美丽的女儿，吉纳塞斯。
05:51
And I guess she was about this age
when something pretty terrible happened.
when something pretty terrible happened.
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我猜她大概就是在这么大的时候
经历了一件可怕的事情。
经历了一件可怕的事情。
05:55
MR: Yes, she was finding herself
unable to walk up the stairs
unable to walk up the stairs
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马：对。她发现自己无法上楼
06:00
in our house to her bedroom,
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回到自己的卧室。
06:02
and after several months of doctors,
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看了几个月的医生以后，
06:04
she was diagnosed to have a rare,
almost invariably fatal disease
almost invariably fatal disease
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她被确诊患了一种罕见的
基本上是致命的疾病
基本上是致命的疾病
06:09
called pulmonary arterial hypertension.
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叫做肺动脉高压。
06:13
CA: So how did you respond to that?
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克：你当时做了些什么？
马：我们首先尽力
为她找最好的医生。
为她找最好的医生。
06:15
MR: Well, we first tried to get her
to the best doctors we could.
to the best doctors we could.
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06:19
We ended up at Children's National
Medical Center in Washington, D.C.
Medical Center in Washington, D.C.
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我们最终找到在华盛顿特区的
国家儿童医疗中心。
国家儿童医疗中心。
06:23
The head of pediatric cardiology
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儿科心脏病部的主任
06:25
told us that he was going to refer her
to get a lung transplant,
to get a lung transplant,
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告诉我们他会帮她安排肺移植，
06:30
but not to hold out any hope,
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但是希望不大，
06:31
because there are
very few lungs available,
very few lungs available,
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因为可移植的肺特别少，
06:34
especially for children.
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尤其是小孩的。
06:35
He said that all people
with this illness died,
with this illness died,
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他说所有得了这个病的人都去世了，
06:40
and if any of you have seen
the film "Lorenzo's Oil,"
the film "Lorenzo's Oil,"
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你们如果看过那个叫
“罗伦佐的油”的电影，
“罗伦佐的油”的电影，
06:44
there's a scene when the protagonist
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有一幕是主角从楼梯上滚下来，
06:46
kind of rolls down the stairway
crying and bemoaning the fate of his son,
crying and bemoaning the fate of his son,
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为他儿子的命运哭泣和哀叹，
06:53
and that's exactly
how we felt about Jenesis.
how we felt about Jenesis.
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我们当时对吉纳赛斯
的感受和他完全一样。
的感受和他完全一样。
克：但你并没有放弃，
没有觉得已经无能为力。
没有觉得已经无能为力。
06:56
CA: But you didn't accept that
as the limit of what you could do.
as the limit of what you could do.
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07:00
You started trying to research
and see if you could find a cure somehow.
and see if you could find a cure somehow.
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你开始尝试做研究，
看你能不能找到一个治疗方法。
看你能不能找到一个治疗方法。
07:04
MR: Correct. She was in the intensive
care ward for weeks at a time,
care ward for weeks at a time,
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马：是的。她在重症监护室一住就是好几周，
07:08
and Bina and I would tag team
to stay at the hospital
to stay at the hospital
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碧娜和我轮流在医院照看，
07:12
while the other watched
the rest of the kids,
the rest of the kids,
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另一个在家照看其他孩子，
07:15
and when I was in the hospital
and she was sleeping,
and she was sleeping,
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当我在医院值班时，
等吉纳赛斯睡着了之后，
等吉纳赛斯睡着了之后，
07:17
I went to the hospital library.
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我就跑去医院的图书馆。
07:19
I read every article that I could find
on pulmonary hypertension.
on pulmonary hypertension.
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我读了所有能找到的
关于肺动脉高压的文章。
关于肺动脉高压的文章。
07:24
I had not taken any biology,
even in college,
even in college,
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我在上大学的时候都没有修过生物，
07:27
so I had to go from a biology textbook
to a college-level textbook
to a college-level textbook
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所以我循序渐进，
从基础生物课本到大学课本，
从基础生物课本到大学课本，
07:33
and then medical textbook
and the journal articles, back and forth,
and the journal articles, back and forth,
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到医学院课本，到期刊文章
这样反复来读，
这样反复来读，
07:37
and eventually I knew enough to think
that it might be possible
that it might be possible
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在我了解了足够多的东西后，
我认为这个病
我认为这个病
07:41
that somebody could find a cure.
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是有可能治愈的。
07:43
So we started a nonprofit foundation.
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于是我们成立了一个非盈利的基金会。
07:47
I wrote a description
asking people to submit grants
asking people to submit grants
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我呼吁大家来捐款，
07:51
and we would pay for medical research.
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所得款项会用于医学研究。
07:54
I became an expert on the condition --
doctors said to me, Martine,
doctors said to me, Martine,
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我都成了这个病的专家了－
医生们对我说，马蒂娜，
医生们对我说，马蒂娜，
07:57
we really appreciate all the funding
you've provided us,
you've provided us,
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我们真的很感激你提供的这些资金，
08:01
but we are not going to be able
to find a cure in time
to find a cure in time
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但我们恐怕不能及时的
找到治疗的方法
找到治疗的方法
08:05
to save your daughter.
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来挽救你女儿的生命。
08:07
However, there is a medicine
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但是，有这样一种药
08:09
that was developed at the
Burroughs Wellcome Company
Burroughs Wellcome Company
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是由伯勒斯威康公司研发的，
08:14
that could halt the progression
of the disease,
of the disease,
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它可能有一定疗效，
可以阻止病情恶化，
可以阻止病情恶化，
08:17
but Burroughs Wellcome has just
been acquired by Glaxo Wellcome.
been acquired by Glaxo Wellcome.
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可是伯勒斯威康刚被
葛兰素威康收购了。
葛兰素威康收购了。
08:22
They made a decision not to develop
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他们决定停止开发
08:24
any medicines for rare
and orphan diseases,
and orphan diseases,
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治疗罕见病的药品，
08:28
and maybe you could use your expertise
in satellite communications
in satellite communications
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或许你可以用你在
卫星通讯上的专长
卫星通讯上的专长
08:32
to develop this cure
for pulmonary hypertension.
for pulmonary hypertension.
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来开发肺动脉高压的医治方法。
08:37
CA: So how on earth did you get
access to this drug?
access to this drug?
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克：那你到底是怎么拿到这个药的呢？
08:40
MR: I went to Glaxo Wellcome
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马：我去了葛兰素威康
08:42
and after three times being rejected
and having the door slammed in my face
and having the door slammed in my face
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吃了三次闭门羹，
08:47
because they weren't going
to out-license the drug
to out-license the drug
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因为他们不愿意把药品许可证
08:51
to a satellite communications expert,
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发给一个卫星通讯专家，
08:54
they weren't going to send the drug
out to anybody at all,
out to anybody at all,
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其实是不想发给任何人，
09:00
and they thought
I didn't have the expertise,
I didn't have the expertise,
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而且他们觉得
我没有这方面的专业知识，
我没有这方面的专业知识，
09:03
finally I was able to persuade
a small team of people to work with me
a small team of people to work with me
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最后我说服了一小队人马跟我一起干，
09:10
and develop enough credibility.
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赢得了一定的信誉。
09:12
I wore down their resistance,
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我打消了他们的疑虑，
09:14
and they had no hope this drug
would even work, by the way,
would even work, by the way,
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其实他们对这个药也没抱希望，
09:18
and they tried to tell me,
"You're just wasting your time.
"You're just wasting your time.
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他们试图告诉我，
“你是在浪费时间。
“你是在浪费时间。
09:20
We're sorry about your daughter."
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我们为你的女儿感到遗憾。”
09:22
But finally, for 25,000 dollars
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但是最终，以25000美元的价格，
09:25
and agreement to pay 10 percent
of any revenues we might ever get,
of any revenues we might ever get,
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以及10%的收入分成，
09:29
they agreed to give me
worldwide rights to this drug.
worldwide rights to this drug.
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他们把这个药的全球使用权给了我。
09:34
CA: And so you put this drug on the market
in a really brilliant way,
in a really brilliant way,
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克：然后你非常聪明的把这个药推到了市场上，
09:40
by basically charging what it would take
to make the economics work.
to make the economics work.
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而且只收成本价。
09:45
MR: Oh yes, Chris, but this really wasn't
a drug that I ended up --
a drug that I ended up --
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马：是的，克里斯，但我
当时买下来的并不是个成品药－
当时买下来的并不是个成品药－
09:49
after I wrote the check for 25,000,
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我签了那两万五的支票后，
09:52
and I said, "Okay, where's
the medicine for Jenesis?"
the medicine for Jenesis?"
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我说，“好吧，吉纳塞斯的药在哪儿呢？”
09:54
they said, "Oh, Martine,
there's no medicine for Jenesis.
there's no medicine for Jenesis.
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他们说，“哦，马蒂娜，吉纳塞斯的药就不存在。
09:58
This is just something we tried in rats."
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我们只在老鼠身上试过这东西。”
10:00
And they gave me, like,
a little plastic Ziploc bag
a little plastic Ziploc bag
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然后他们给我这个小的密封袋
10:04
of a small amount of powder.
167
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里面有一点点粉末。
10:05
They said, "Don't give it to any human,"
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他们说，“不要给人吃啊，”
10:08
and they gave me a piece of paper
which said it was a patent,
which said it was a patent,
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3808
然后给了我一张纸，
说是专利证书，
说是专利证书，
10:12
and from that, we had to figure out
a way to make this medicine.
a way to make this medicine.
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从那开始，我们得想办法把药生产出来。
10:16
A hundred chemists in the U.S.
at the top universities
at the top universities
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来自美国顶尖大学的多名化学家
10:19
all swore that little patent
could never be turned into a medicine.
could never be turned into a medicine.
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都不认为这个小小的专利能做成药。
10:23
If it was turned into a medicine,
it could never be delivered
it could never be delivered
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就算是做成药，也不可能售卖
10:27
because it had a half-life
of only 45 minutes.
of only 45 minutes.
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因为它的半衰期只有45分钟。
10:30
CA: And yet, a year or two later,
you were there with a medicine
you were there with a medicine
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克：即使如此，在一两年之后，
你把它做成药了，
你把它做成药了，
10:34
that worked for Jenesis.
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而且还治好了吉纳塞斯。
10:38
MR: Chris, the astonishing thing
is that this absolutely worthless
is that this absolutely worthless
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马：克里斯，令人意想不到的是，
那个毫无价值的
那个毫无价值的
10:44
piece of powder
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小小粉末
10:45
that had the sparkle of a promise
of hope for Jenesis
of hope for Jenesis
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曾经是吉纳塞斯的唯一希望
10:49
is not only keeping Jenesis
and other people alive today,
and other people alive today,
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如今不但救了吉纳塞斯和其他人的命，
10:54
but produces almost a billion
and a half dollars a year in revenue.
and a half dollars a year in revenue.
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更创造了近15亿美元的年收入。
10:59
(Applause)
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（掌声）
克：太棒了。
11:02
CA: So here you go.
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2531
11:05
So you took this company public, right?
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3553
然后你的公司上市了，是吗？
11:09
And made an absolute fortune.
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2530
还赚了大钱。
11:11
And how much have you paid Glaxo,
by the way, after that 25,000?
by the way, after that 25,000?
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3994
那除了那两万五之外，
你一共付了葛兰素多少钱？
你一共付了葛兰素多少钱？
11:15
MR: Yeah, well, every year we pay them
10 percent of 1.5 billion,
10 percent of 1.5 billion,
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马：喔，每年我们付15亿的百分之十，
11:19
150 million dollars,
last year 100 million dollars.
last year 100 million dollars.
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3715
就是一亿五千万，去年是一亿。
11:23
It's the best return on investment
they ever received. (Laughter)
they ever received. (Laughter)
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3111
是他们有史以来最赚的一笔投资。（笑）
11:26
CA: And the best news of all, I guess,
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克：我猜最好的好消息
11:28
is this.
191
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1857
还是这个。
11:30
MR: Yes. Jenesis is an absolutely
brilliant young lady.
brilliant young lady.
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4273
马：是的。吉纳塞斯是个出色的姑娘。
11:34
She's alive, healthy today at 30.
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2623
她今年30岁了，身体健康。
11:36
You see me, Bina and Jenesis there.
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2462
那是我，碧娜和吉纳塞斯。
11:39
The most amazing thing about Jenesis
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2879
对于吉纳塞斯而言最棒的是
11:42
is that while she could do
anything with her life,
anything with her life,
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2902
她可以尽情选择做任何事，
11:45
and believe me, if you grew up
your whole life with people
your whole life with people
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3696
相信我，如果你
从小到大都听人说，
从小到大都听人说，
11:48
in your face saying
that you've got a fatal disease,
that you've got a fatal disease,
198
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2922
你得了一种致命疾病，
11:51
I would probably run to Tahiti and just
not want to run into anybody again.
not want to run into anybody again.
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4713
我大概会跑到大溪地去，躲开这些人。
11:56
But instead she chooses to work
in United Therapeutics.
in United Therapeutics.
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但她却选择在“联合治疗”公司工作。
11:59
She says she wants to do all she can
to help other people
to help other people
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她说她要尽力帮助其他
12:03
with orphan diseases get medicines,
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2218
患有罕见疾病的人开发药物，
12:05
and today, she's our project leader
for all telepresence activities,
for all telepresence activities,
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4690
如今，她是我们所有远程活动的项目负责人，
12:10
where she helps digitally unite
the entire company to work together
the entire company to work together
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3529
以数字化的方式整合公司，开展合作
12:13
to find cures for pulmonary hypertension.
205
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寻找肺动脉高压的治愈方式。
12:16
CA: But not everyone who has this disease
has been so fortunate.
has been so fortunate.
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3297
克：但不是每个患有这种病的人都这么幸运。
12:19
There are still many people dying,
and you are tackling that too. How?
and you are tackling that too. How?
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4455
还是有很多人死于这个病，而你也在着力
解决这个难题。你是怎么做的？
解决这个难题。你是怎么做的？
12:24
MR: Exactly, Chris. There's some 3,000
people a year in the United States alone,
people a year in the United States alone,
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马：对级了，克里斯。
仅在美国每年就大约有三千人，
仅在美国每年就大约有三千人，
12:28
perhaps 10 times that number worldwide,
209
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2879
而全世界每年大约有三万人，
12:31
who continue to die of this illness
210
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2155
死于这种疾病。
12:33
because the medicines
slow down the progression
slow down the progression
211
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2530
因为药物只能减缓病情恶化
12:36
but they don't halt it.
212
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1695
并不能完全治愈。
12:38
The only cure for pulmonary hypertension,
pulmonary fibrosis,
pulmonary fibrosis,
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4739
唯一能治愈肺动脉高压，肺纤维化，
12:42
cystic fibrosis, emphysema,
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2436
囊性纤维化，肺气肿，
12:45
COPD, what Leonard Nimoy just died of,
215
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2995
慢性阻塞性肺病 ——伦纳德 尼莫尔刚刚死于这个病，
12:48
is a lung transplant,
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2508
只有进行肺移植，
12:50
but sadly, there are only enough
available lungs for 2,000 people
available lungs for 2,000 people
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但可悲的是，在美国，
每年可用于移植的肺
每年可用于移植的肺
12:55
in the U.S. a year
to get a lung transplant,
to get a lung transplant,
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2902
只够两千人进行手术，
12:58
whereas nearly a half
million people a year
million people a year
219
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3297
而每年有将近五十万人
死于晚期肺功能衰竭。
13:01
die of end-stage lung failure.
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2299
13:04
CA: So how can you address that?
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克：你打算如何解决这个问题？
13:06
MR: So I conceptualize the possibility
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马：我在思考这样一种可能性，
13:09
that just like we keep cars and planes
223
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3413
我们之所以能够让汽车，飞机，
13:12
and buildings going forever
224
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2392
建筑永久存在，
13:15
with an unlimited supply
of building parts and machine parts,
of building parts and machine parts,
225
783104
4227
是因为我们能够无限制的提供
楼房机器的零件，
楼房机器的零件，
13:19
why can't we create an unlimited supply
of transplantable organs
of transplantable organs
226
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3190
我们为何不制造无限量的
可移植器官
可移植器官
13:22
to keep people living indefinitely,
227
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2938
来让人类永生呢，
13:25
and especially people with lung disease.
228
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2647
特别是那些患有肺病的人。
13:28
So we've teamed up with the decoder
of the human genome, Craig Venter,
of the human genome, Craig Venter,
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5526
所以我们与人类基因组的
解码专家克雷格·文特尔
解码专家克雷格·文特尔
13:33
and the company he founded
230
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1812
以及他与“神秘奖”公司创始人，
13:35
with Peter Diamandis,
the founder of the X Prize,
the founder of the X Prize,
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3506
彼得·迪曼蒂斯共同组建的公司合作
13:38
to genetically modify
232
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2066
来从基因上改变
13:41
the pig genome
233
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1695
猪的基因组
13:42
so that the pig's organs will not
be rejected by the human body
be rejected by the human body
234
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4505
这样人的身体就不会对
猪的器官产生排异反应
猪的器官产生排异反应
13:47
and thereby to create an unlimited supply
235
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3111
这样来创造无限数量的
13:50
of transplantable organs.
236
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2415
可移植器官。
13:52
We do this through our company,
United Therapeutics.
United Therapeutics.
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2972
我们通过我们的公司“联合治疗”来做这件事。
13:55
CA: So you really believe that within,
what, a decade,
what, a decade,
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克：而且你坚信在十年之内，
13:58
that this shortage of transplantable lungs
maybe be cured, through these guys?
maybe be cured, through these guys?
239
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4481
可以以此来解决可供移植的肺的短缺问题。
14:03
MR: Absolutely, Chris.
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马：绝对的，克里斯。
14:04
I'm as certain of that as I was
of the success that we've had
of the success that we've had
241
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3692
我非常确定，正如我以前
坚信电视直播和天狼星卫星广播
会成功一样。
会成功一样。
14:08
with direct television
broadcasting, Sirius XM.
broadcasting, Sirius XM.
242
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3088
14:11
It's actually not rocket science.
243
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2206
这其实没有那么高深。
14:13
It's straightforward engineering away
one gene after another.
one gene after another.
244
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3459
就是一个个基因进行搭建。
14:17
We're so lucky to be born in the time
that sequencing genomes
that sequencing genomes
245
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4342
我们很幸运处于这样
一个时代，基因组测序
一个时代，基因组测序
14:21
is a routine activity,
246
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2659
是一件很平常的事，
14:24
and the brilliant folks
at Synthetic Genomics
at Synthetic Genomics
247
852285
2438
“合成基因”公司那些杰出的科学家们
14:26
are able to zero in on the pig genome,
248
854723
2206
能够专注研究猪的基因组，
14:28
find exactly the genes
that are problematic, and fix them.
that are problematic, and fix them.
249
856929
3392
准确的找到有问题的基因，
然后修复它们。
然后修复它们。
14:32
CA: But it's not just bodies that --
though that is amazing.
though that is amazing.
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3039
克：而且不仅仅是身体——
当然这已经相当神奇了。
当然这已经相当神奇了。
14:35
(Applause)
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（掌声）
14:38
It's not just long-lasting bodies
that are of interest to you now.
that are of interest to you now.
252
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4295
你已经不光满足于
身体上的长寿。
身体上的长寿。
14:42
It's long-lasting minds.
253
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2032
还想要思想永存。
14:45
And I think this graph for you
says something quite profound.
says something quite profound.
254
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我想这幅图对你而言意义深远。
14:50
What does this mean?
255
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1184
它讲的是什么？
14:52
MR: What this graph means,
and it comes from Ray Kurzweil,
and it comes from Ray Kurzweil,
256
880032
3648
马：这幅图是雷·克兹维尔的作品，
意思是说
意思是说
14:55
is that the rate of development
in computer processing
in computer processing
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计算机处理的发展速度
15:00
hardware, firmware and software,
258
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无论是硬件，固件，还是软件，
15:03
has been advancing along a curve
259
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2995
都是一个曲线发展的过程
15:06
such that by the 2020s, as we saw
in earlier presentations today,
in earlier presentations today,
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到2020年代，就像我们
在今天早些时候的演讲中看到的，
在今天早些时候的演讲中看到的，
15:10
there will be information technology
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信息技术将发展到很高水平
15:13
that processes information
and the world around us
and the world around us
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（计算机）处理信息和应对外界反应的速度
15:17
at the same rate as a human mind.
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将与人脑毫无二致。
15:20
CA: And so that being so, you're actually
getting ready for this world
getting ready for this world
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克：因此你现在已经开始着手准备
15:24
by believing that we will soon
be able to, what,
be able to, what,
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因为你相信我们很快就能，
15:28
actually take the contents of our brains
and somehow preserve them forever?
and somehow preserve them forever?
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将我们大脑里的东西
永久保存下来？
永久保存下来？
15:34
How do you describe that?
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给我们解释一下。
15:36
MR: Well, Chris, what we're working on
is creating a situation
is creating a situation
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马：克里斯，我们现在做的这个
是在创造一个环境
是在创造一个环境
15:40
where people can create a mind file,
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在那里人们可以创建一个思维文档，
15:43
and a mind file is the collection
of their mannerisms, personality,
of their mannerisms, personality,
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这个思维文档收集
人们的举止，个性，
人们的举止，个性，
15:47
recollection, feelings,
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回忆，感觉，
15:49
beliefs, attitudes and values,
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信仰，态度及价值观，
15:50
everything that we've poured today
into Google, into Amazon, into Facebook,
into Google, into Amazon, into Facebook,
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我们今天一股脑儿告诉
谷歌，亚马逊，脸书的一切信息，
谷歌，亚马逊，脸书的一切信息，
15:56
and all of this information stored there
will be able, in the next couple decades,
will be able, in the next couple decades,
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所有信息都存储在那里，
几十年后，
几十年后，
16:03
once software is able
to recapitulate consciousness,
to recapitulate consciousness,
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当软件技术（发展到）可以
捕捉意识，
捕捉意识，
16:07
be able to revive the consciousness
which is imminent in our mind file.
which is imminent in our mind file.
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我们就可以从思维文档中
还原出我们的意识。
还原出我们的意识。
16:12
CA: Now you're not just
messing around with this.
messing around with this.
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克：你并没有在开玩笑，
16:15
You're serious. I mean, who is this?
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而是认真的。这是谁？
16:18
MR: This is a robot version of
my beloved spouse, Bina.
my beloved spouse, Bina.
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马：这是我的爱人碧娜的机器人版本。
16:22
And we call her Bina 48.
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她叫碧娜48.
16:25
She was programmed
by Hanson Robotics out of Texas.
by Hanson Robotics out of Texas.
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她是由德克萨斯的
汉森机器人公司制造的。
汉森机器人公司制造的。
16:28
There's the centerfold
from National Geographic magazine
from National Geographic magazine
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这是（发表）在国家地理杂志
中心插页（的一幅照片）
中心插页（的一幅照片）
16:31
with one of her caregivers,
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（碧娜）和她的护理人员在一起，
16:34
and she roams the web
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她在上网
16:36
and has hundreds of hours
of Bina's mannerisms, personalities.
of Bina's mannerisms, personalities.
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5254
她拥有几百小时
有关碧娜举止和个性（的信息）。
有关碧娜举止和个性（的信息）。
16:41
She's kind of like a two-year-old kid,
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她像是个两岁的小孩，
16:43
but she says things
that blow people away,
that blow people away,
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但她讲的话往往出人意表，
16:46
best expressed by perhaps
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可能最好的表达
16:49
a New York Times Pulitzer Prize-winning
journalist Amy Harmon
journalist Amy Harmon
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来自纽约时报的
普利策获奖记者艾米·哈蒙
普利策获奖记者艾米·哈蒙
16:53
who says her answers
are often frustrating,
are often frustrating,
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她说，她的回答经常令人哭笑不得，
16:55
but other times as compelling as those
of any flesh person she's interviewed.
of any flesh person she's interviewed.
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6199
但有时又精彩绝伦，
丝毫不逊色于她采访过的有血有肉的真人
丝毫不逊色于她采访过的有血有肉的真人
17:02
CA: And is your thinking here,
part of your hope here, is that
part of your hope here, is that
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克：你认为，或者你希望，
17:06
this version of Bina can in a sense
live on forever, or some future upgrade
live on forever, or some future upgrade
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6445
这个版本的碧娜，或者将来升级版本的碧娜，
可以永生？
17:13
to this version can live on forever?
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马：对，但不仅仅是碧娜，所有人。
17:15
MR: Yes. Not just Bina, but everybody.
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17:17
You know, it costs us virtually nothing
to store our mind files
to store our mind files
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实际上，将我们的
思维文档保存的成本几乎为零
思维文档保存的成本几乎为零
17:21
on Facebook, Instagram, what-have-you.
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你可以上传到脸书，Instagram，或者其他地方。
17:24
Social media is I think one of the most
extraordinary inventions of our time,
extraordinary inventions of our time,
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我认为社交媒体是我们
这个时代最杰出的发明之一，
这个时代最杰出的发明之一，
17:28
and as apps become available
that will allow us
that will allow us
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随着客户端应用的发展，
Siri一类的应用会越来越好，
17:32
to out-Siri Siri, better and better,
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3088
17:35
and develop consciousness
operating systems,
operating systems,
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并进一步发展出
具有意识的操作系统，
具有意识的操作系统，
17:38
everybody in the world,
billions of people,
billions of people,
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世界上的每一个人，
数十亿的人，
数十亿的人，
可以复制自己的思维
17:41
will be able to develop
mind clones of themselves
mind clones of themselves
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3738
17:45
that will have their own life on the web.
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2554
在网上拥有生命。
17:47
CA: So the thing is, Martine,
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1454
克：问题是，马蒂纳，
17:49
that in any normal conversation,
this would sound stark-staring mad,
this would sound stark-staring mad,
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4123
如果我们仅仅是在聊天（而不是TED Talk），
这些事听起来就太疯狂了，
这些事听起来就太疯狂了，
17:53
but in the context of your life,
what you've done,
what you've done,
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3354
但结合你的生活，
你取得的成就，
你取得的成就，
17:56
some of the things we've heard this week,
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2090
我们这礼拜所听到的其他演讲，
17:58
the constructed realities
that our minds give,
that our minds give,
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2196
人类思维所构建的现实，
18:00
I mean, you wouldn't bet against it.
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3794
我们没法说它不可能实现。
18:04
MR: Well, I think it's really nothing
coming from me.
coming from me.
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2856
马：是，其实我并没有做什么。
18:07
If anything, I'm perhaps a bit
of a communicator of activities
of a communicator of activities
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6664
如果有的话，我只是做了些牵线搭桥的事
18:14
that are being undertaken
by the greatest companies
by the greatest companies
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3390
为那些伟大的公司牵线搭桥
18:17
in China, Japan, India, the U.S., Europe.
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3320
它们来自中国，日本，印度，
美国，欧洲。
美国，欧洲。
18:21
There are tens of millions of people
working on writing code
working on writing code
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4703
有上千万的人在编写代码
18:25
that expresses more and more aspects
of our human consciousness,
of our human consciousness,
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3715
意图更全面地描述人类意识
18:29
and you don't have to be a genius
to see that all these threads
to see that all these threads
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5085
普通人也能预测到，
这些线索最终
这些线索最终
18:34
are going to come together
and ultimately create human consciousness,
and ultimately create human consciousness,
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4132
会汇聚起来，最终形成人类意识，
18:38
and it's something we'll value.
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这对我们而言很重要。
18:40
There are so many things
to do in this life,
to do in this life,
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2438
人的一生中有太多的事要做，
18:43
and if we could have a simulacrum,
a digital doppelgänger of ourselves
a digital doppelgänger of ourselves
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4603
如果我们有一个仿真的自己
18:47
that helps us process books, do shopping,
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2897
来帮助我们读书，购物，
18:50
be our best friends,
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1950
成为我们的好朋友，
18:52
I believe our mind clones,
these digital versions of ourselves,
these digital versions of ourselves,
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3042
我相信我们的思维克隆体，
数字版的我们，
数字版的我们，
18:55
will ultimately be our best friends,
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2601
最终会成为我们最好的朋友，
对我自己和碧娜个人而言，
18:58
and for me personally and Bina personally,
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2020
19:00
we love each other like crazy.
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1788
我们疯狂的爱着对方。
19:02
Each day, we are always saying, like,
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每一天，我们都要说，
“哇，我甚至比30年前还要爱你。
19:03
"Wow, I love you even more
than 30 years ago.
than 30 years ago.
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2535
19:06
And so for us, the prospect of mind clones
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3146
所以对我们来说，思维复制的可能性，
19:09
and regenerated bodies
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2044
和身体的再生
19:11
is that our love affair, Chris,
can go on forever.
can go on forever.
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3090
会让我们的爱情故事，克里斯，
持续到永远。
持续到永远。
19:14
And we never get bored of each other.
I'm sure we never will.
I'm sure we never will.
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3202
我们从来不觉得彼此无聊。
我肯定以后也不会的。
我肯定以后也不会的。
19:17
CA: I think Bina's here, right?
MR: She is, yeah.
MR: She is, yeah.
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2372
克：碧娜在场，是吧？
马：她在，是的。
马：她在，是的。
19:20
CA: Would it be too much, I don't know,
do we have a handheld mic?
do we have a handheld mic?
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克：我不知道这个要求是否过分，
我们有话筒么？
我们有话筒么？
19:23
Bina, could we invite you to the stage?
I just have to ask you one question.
I just have to ask you one question.
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碧娜，我们能请你上台么？
我有一个问题非问不可。
我有一个问题非问不可。
19:27
Besides, we need to see you.
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此外，我们很想见见你。
19:28
(Applause)
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2949
（掌声）
19:35
Thank you, thank you.
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1556
谢谢，谢谢。
19:36
Come and join Martine here.
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来，和马蒂娜坐在一起。
19:39
I mean, look, when you got married,
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你看，当你结婚的时候，
19:44
if someone had told you that,
in a few years time,
in a few years time,
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3089
如果有人告诉你，
几年之内，
几年之内，
19:47
the man you were marrying
would become a woman,
would become a woman,
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2298
你嫁的这个男人
会变成一个女人，
会变成一个女人，
19:49
and a few years after that,
you would become a robot --
you would become a robot --
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然后再过几年，
你会变成一个机器人 ——
你会变成一个机器人 ——
19:52
(Laughter) --
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（笑声）
19:55
how has this gone? How has it been?
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3285
跟我们讲讲，你是怎么看待这些的？
19:59
Bina Rothblatt: It's been really
an exciting journey,
an exciting journey,
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2566
碧娜·罗斯布拉特：这是一段
令人兴奋的旅程，
令人兴奋的旅程，
20:01
and I would have never
thought that at the time,
thought that at the time,
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2340
我以前也从来没想过，
20:04
but we started making goals
and setting those goals
and setting those goals
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3837
但当我们开始制定目标，并为之努力，
20:07
and accomplishing things,
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1271
最后完成一些事情，
20:09
and before you knew it,
we just keep going up and up
we just keep going up and up
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2467
我们没有多想，
只是不断前行
只是不断前行
直到现在我们也没有停止，
所以还是很棒的。
所以还是很棒的。
20:11
and we're still not stopping,
so it's great.
so it's great.
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20:14
CA: Martine told me something
really beautiful,
really beautiful,
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3065
克：马蒂娜告诉我一件很美好的事，
20:17
just actually on Skype before this,
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2759
是之前我们通过Skype通话的时候，
20:20
which was that he wanted
to live for hundreds of years
to live for hundreds of years
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5831
她说她希望能够活上几百年
20:25
as a mind file,
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2326
通过思维文档的形式，
20:28
but not if it wasn't with you.
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3132
但如果没有你的话，
她就不会去做这个事。
她就不会去做这个事。
20:31
BR: That's right,
we want to do it together.
we want to do it together.
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2108
碧：是的，
我们想一起做这个事。
我们想一起做这个事。
20:33
We're cryonicists as well,
and we want to wake up together.
and we want to wake up together.
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3253
我们还支持人体冷冻技术，
希望能够一起醒来。
希望能够一起醒来。
20:36
CA: So just so as you know,
from my point of view,
from my point of view,
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克：我就想告诉你们，
从我的角度讲，
从我的角度讲，
20:39
this isn't only one of the most
astonishing lives I have heard,
astonishing lives I have heard,
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3715
这不仅是我听过的
最精彩的人生故事，
最精彩的人生故事，
20:42
it's one of the most astonishing
love stories I've ever heard.
love stories I've ever heard.
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3004
也是我听过的
最精彩的爱情故事。
最精彩的爱情故事。
20:45
It's just a delight to have you
both here at TED.
both here at TED.
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非常高兴你们二位能来TED
20:48
Thank you so much.
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1346
非常感谢。
20:49
MR: Thank you.
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马：谢谢。
20:51
(Applause)
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6641
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Martine Rothblatt - TranshumanistWhether she’s inventing satellite radio, developing life-saving drugs or digitizing the human mind, Martine Rothblatt has a knack for turning visionary ideas into commonplace technology.
Why you should listen
After creating satellite radio with a startup that went on to become Sirius XM, Martine Rothblatt was on the verge of retirement. But her daughter’s rare lung disease inspired her to start United Therapeutics and develop an oral medication that changed the lives of thousands of patients. Now with the Terasem Foundation, she’s researching the digital preservation of personality as a means to enable the contents of our minds to outlast our bodies.
Rothblatt’s books include The Apartheid of Sex, which (inspired by her experiences as a transgendered woman) takes on conventional wisdom surrounding gender. Her latest book, Virtually Human, explores human rights for the digital lifeforms just over the horizon.
Martine Rothblatt | Speaker | TED.com