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Johann Hari: Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong
Johann Hari: Alt, hvad du tror du ved om misbrug, er forkert
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Hvad forårsager i virkeligheden misbrug - lige fra kokain til smartphones? Og hvordan kan vi løse det? Johann Hari har set vore nuværende metoder fejle, da han så sine elskede kæmpe med deres misbrug. Han undrede sig over hvorfor vi behandler misbrugere på den måde, vi gør - og tænkte at der måtte være en bedre måde. Som han fortæller i sin dybt personlige foredrag, tog hans spørgsmål ham over hele verden, og han opdagede nogle overraskende og håbefulde måder at forstå dette ældgamle problem.
Johann Hari - Journalist
Johann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is. Full bio
Johann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
One of my earliest memories
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Noget af det første jeg kan huske, var da
00:14
is of trying to wake up
one of my relatives and not being able to.
one of my relatives and not being able to.
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jeg ville vække et familiemedlem,
og var ikke i stand til det.
og var ikke i stand til det.
Jeg blot var et barn,
så jeg forstod det ikke rigtigt,
så jeg forstod det ikke rigtigt,
00:17
And I was just a little kid,
so I didn't really understand why,
so I didn't really understand why,
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men da jeg blev ældre, indså jeg,
00:20
but as I got older,
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00:21
I realized we had
drug addiction in my family,
drug addiction in my family,
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at vi havde stof-misbrug i min familie.
som senere inkluderede kokain-misbrug.
00:23
including later cocaine addiction.
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00:25
I'd been thinking about it a lot lately,
partly because it's now exactly 100 years
partly because it's now exactly 100 years
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Jeg har tænkt meget over det i den seneste tid,
til dels fordi det nu er præcis 100 år siden
til dels fordi det nu er præcis 100 år siden
00:30
since drugs were first banned
in the United States and Britain,
in the United States and Britain,
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stoffer blev forbudt i USA og Storbritannien
00:33
and we then imposed that
on the rest of the world.
on the rest of the world.
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og vi tvang resten af verden det.
00:36
It's a century since we made
this really fateful decision
this really fateful decision
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Det er et århundrede siden vi lavede
denne skæbnesvangre beslutning
denne skæbnesvangre beslutning
00:39
to take addicts and punish them
and make them suffer,
and make them suffer,
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at pågribe misbrugere og straffe dem
og lade dem lide,
og lade dem lide,
00:43
because we believed that would deter them;
it would give them an incentive to stop.
it would give them an incentive to stop.
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fordi vi mente at det ville afskrække dem -
det ville give dem et incitament til at holde op.
det ville give dem et incitament til at holde op.
00:48
And a few years ago, I was looking at
some of the addicts in my life who I love,
some of the addicts in my life who I love,
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Og for nogle få år siden undersøgte jeg
nogle misbrugere, som jeg holdt af,
nogle misbrugere, som jeg holdt af,
00:53
and trying to figure out
if there was some way to help them.
if there was some way to help them.
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og forsøgte at finde en måde at hjælpe dem.
00:56
And I realized there were loads
of incredibly basic questions
of incredibly basic questions
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Og jeg erkendte, at der var masser
af helt basale spørgsmål,
af helt basale spørgsmål,
00:59
I just didn't know the answer to,
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som jeg bare ikke havde svaret på,
01:01
like, what really causes addiction?
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som f.eks. hvad forårsager misbrug?
01:04
Why do we carry on with this approach
that doesn't seem to be working,
that doesn't seem to be working,
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Hvorfor fortsætter vi med den metode,
som ikke lader til at virke.
som ikke lader til at virke.
01:07
and is there a better way out there
that we could try instead?
that we could try instead?
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og findes der en bedre metode,
som vi kunne prøve i stedet for?
som vi kunne prøve i stedet for?
Så jeg læste en masse om det,
01:10
So I read loads of stuff about it,
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01:12
and I couldn't really find
the answers I was looking for,
the answers I was looking for,
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og jeg kunne ikke rigtigt finde de svar,
som jeg søgte.
som jeg søgte.
Så jeg tænkte, ok, jeg vil opsøge
de personer i verden,
de personer i verden,
01:14
so I thought, okay, I'll go and sit
with different people around the world
with different people around the world
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01:18
who lived this and studied this
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som beskæftigede sig med det her,
01:20
and talk to them and see
if I could learn from them.
if I could learn from them.
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for at tale med dem og se,
om jeg kunne lære noget af dem.
om jeg kunne lære noget af dem.
01:22
And I didn't realize I would end up
going over 30,000 miles at the start,
going over 30,000 miles at the start,
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Jeg vidste ikke
at jeg skulle rejse 50.000 km
at jeg skulle rejse 50.000 km
01:26
but I ended up going and meeting
loads of different people,
loads of different people,
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og ville møde mange forskellige mennesker,
01:29
from a transgender crack dealer
in Brownsville, Brooklyn,
in Brownsville, Brooklyn,
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lige fra en transseksuel drug-pusher
i Brownsville i Brooklyn,
i Brownsville i Brooklyn,
01:31
to a scientist who spends a lot of time
feeding hallucinogens to mongooses
feeding hallucinogens to mongooses
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til en forsker, som brugte meget tid
med at fodre mungoer med hallucinogener,
med at fodre mungoer med hallucinogener,
01:35
to see if they like them --
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for at se om de kunne li' dem
-- det viste sig, at det gjorde de,
men kun i særlige omstændigheder --
men kun i særlige omstændigheder --
01:36
it turns out they do, but only
in very specific circumstances --
in very specific circumstances --
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01:39
to the only country that's ever
decriminalized all drugs,
decriminalized all drugs,
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til det eneste land som nogensinde
har afkriminaliseret alle stoffer,
har afkriminaliseret alle stoffer,
01:42
from cannabis to crack, Portugal.
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fra cannabis til crack -- Portugal.
01:45
And the thing I realized
that really blew my mind is,
that really blew my mind is,
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Og den erkendelse, som virkelig tog mig,
01:47
almost everything we think
we know about addiction is wrong,
we know about addiction is wrong,
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var, at næsten alt det vi tror
om misbrug, er forkert.
om misbrug, er forkert.
01:51
and if we start to absorb
the new evidence about addiction,
the new evidence about addiction,
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og hvis vi begynder at absorbere
de nye beviser om afhængighed,
de nye beviser om afhængighed,
01:54
I think we're going to have to change
a lot more than our drug policies.
a lot more than our drug policies.
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så tror jeg, vi er nødt til at ændre
meget mere end vores narkotikapolitik.
meget mere end vores narkotikapolitik.
01:58
But let's start with what we think
we know, what I thought I knew.
we know, what I thought I knew.
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Men lad os starte med hvad vi tror vi ved,
og hvad jeg troede, jeg vidste.
og hvad jeg troede, jeg vidste.
02:01
Let's think about this middle row here.
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Lad os se på den midterste række her.
02:03
Imagine all of you, for 20 days now, went
off and used heroin three times a day.
off and used heroin three times a day.
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Forestil jer i gik i 20 dage og tog
heroin tre gange om dagen.
heroin tre gange om dagen.
Nogle af jer ser lidt mere entusiastiske ud
end andre ved den ide.
end andre ved den ide.
02:07
Some of you look a little more
enthusiastic than others at this prospect.
enthusiastic than others at this prospect.
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02:10
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
Bare rolig,
det er bare et tankeeksperiment.
det er bare et tankeeksperiment.
02:11
Don't worry,
it's just a thought experiment.
it's just a thought experiment.
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02:14
Imagine you did that, right?
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Forestil jer at i gør det.
02:16
What would happen?
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Hvad ville der ske?
Vi har en 100 år gammel fortælling om,
hvad der ville ske.
hvad der ville ske.
02:17
Now, we have a story about what would
happen that we've been told for a century.
happen that we've been told for a century.
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Vi tror, at fordi
der er kemiske kroge i heroin
der er kemiske kroge i heroin
02:21
We think, because there are
chemical hooks in heroin,
chemical hooks in heroin,
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02:23
as you took it for a while,
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når man har taget det i et stykke tid,
02:25
your body would become
dependent on those hooks,
dependent on those hooks,
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at kroppen vil blive afhængig
af disse kroge,
af disse kroge,
02:28
you'd start to physically need them,
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at man vil få et fysisk behov for dem,
02:29
and at the end of those 20 days,
you'd all be heroin addicts. Right?
you'd all be heroin addicts. Right?
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og at efter disse 20 dage
vil alle være heroin-misbrugere - ikke?
vil alle være heroin-misbrugere - ikke?
02:33
That's what I thought.
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Det var det jeg troede.
Det første, der gjorde mig
mistænksom ved den historie
mistænksom ved den historie
02:34
First thing that alerted me to the fact
that something's not right with this story
that something's not right with this story
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var, da jeg blev forklaret,
02:38
is when it was explained to me.
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02:40
If I step out of this TED Talk today
and I get hit by a car and I break my hip,
and I get hit by a car and I break my hip,
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at hvis jeg går ud og bliver ramt af en bil,
og brækker hoften,
og brækker hoften,
så vil jeg komme på hospitalet
og få en masse diacetylmorfin.
og få en masse diacetylmorfin.
02:43
I'll be taken to hospital
and I'll be given loads of diamorphine.
and I'll be given loads of diamorphine.
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02:47
Diamorphine is heroin.
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Diacetylmorfin er heroin.
02:48
It's actually much better heroin
than you're going to buy on the streets,
than you're going to buy on the streets,
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Det er faktisk en langt bedre heroin,
end den man køber på gaden
end den man køber på gaden
02:52
because the stuff you buy
from a drug dealer is contaminated.
from a drug dealer is contaminated.
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fordi det man køber hos
en drug-pusher er forurenet.
en drug-pusher er forurenet.
Faktisk er der kun lidt heroin i det,
02:55
Actually, very little of it is heroin,
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hvorimod det, som lægen giver dig er helt rent.
02:57
whereas the stuff you get
from the doctor is medically pure.
from the doctor is medically pure.
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Og man bliver givet det over ret lang tid.
02:59
And you'll be given it for quite
a long period of time.
a long period of time.
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Der er mange her i dette rum,
03:02
There are loads of people in this room,
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som ikke er klar over,
at de har taget end hel del heroin.
at de har taget end hel del heroin.
03:04
you may not realize it,
you've taken quite a lot of heroin.
you've taken quite a lot of heroin.
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03:07
And anyone who is watching this
anywhere in the world, this is happening.
anywhere in the world, this is happening.
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Det sker overalt i verden,
03:10
And if what we believe
about addiction is right --
about addiction is right --
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og hvis dét vi tror om afhængighed
er rigtigt,
er rigtigt,
03:13
those people are exposed
to all those chemical hooks --
to all those chemical hooks --
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så er alle disse mennesker udsat
for de kemiske kroge.
for de kemiske kroge.
Hvad burde så ske?
De burde blive misbrugere.
De burde blive misbrugere.
03:15
What should happen?
They should become addicts.
They should become addicts.
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03:18
This has been studied really carefully.
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Dette er blevet undersøgt meget grundigt.
Det sker ikke. Du har sikkert set,
at din bedstemor ikke kom ud
at din bedstemor ikke kom ud
03:20
It doesn't happen; you will have noticed
if your grandmother had a hip replacement,
if your grandmother had a hip replacement,
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efter en hofteoperation, som en junkie.
03:23
she didn't come out as a junkie.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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Da jeg hørte dette, virkede det så underligt
03:26
And when I learned this,
it seemed so weird to me,
it seemed so weird to me,
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03:29
so contrary to everything I'd been told,
everything I thought I knew,
everything I thought I knew,
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så modsat af, hvad jeg havde fået at vide
og hvad jeg troede jeg vidste.
og hvad jeg troede jeg vidste.
03:33
I just thought it couldn't be right,
until I met a man called Bruce Alexander.
until I met a man called Bruce Alexander.
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Jeg troede ikke, at det var rigtigt,
indtil jeg mødte Bruce Alexander.
indtil jeg mødte Bruce Alexander.
03:36
He's a professor
of psychology in Vancouver
of psychology in Vancouver
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Han er professor i psykologi i Vancouver,
03:39
who carried out an incredible experiment
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som har foretaget et utroligt eksperiment,
03:41
I think really helps us
to understand this issue.
to understand this issue.
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jeg synes virkelig hjælper os til
at forstå dette spørgsmål.
at forstå dette spørgsmål.
03:43
Professor Alexander explained to me,
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Professor Alexander forklarede mig
03:45
the idea of addiction we've all
got in our heads, that story,
got in our heads, that story,
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at den ide om afhængighed,
som vi alle har,
som vi alle har,
delvis stammer fra nogle eksperimenter,
03:48
comes partly from a series of experiments
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der blev udført tidligere
i det 20. århundrede.
i det 20. århundrede.
03:50
that were done earlier
in the 20th century.
in the 20th century.
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De var meget simple eksperimenter.
03:52
They're really simple.
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03:54
You can do them tonight at home
if you feel a little sadistic.
if you feel a little sadistic.
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Man kan selv lave dem derhjemme,
hvis man føler sig lidt sadistisk til mode.
hvis man føler sig lidt sadistisk til mode.
03:57
You get a rat and you put it in a cage,
and you give it two water bottles:
and you give it two water bottles:
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Man tager en rotte og sætter den i et bur
og giver den to vandflasker.
og giver den to vandflasker.
04:00
One is just water, and the other is water
laced with either heroin or cocaine.
laced with either heroin or cocaine.
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Den ene er bare vand og den anden
er tilsat heroin eller kokain.
er tilsat heroin eller kokain.
Rotten vil næsten altid
foretrække heroinen eller kokainen
foretrække heroinen eller kokainen
04:04
If you do that, the rat will almost always
prefer the drug water
prefer the drug water
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og vil næsten altid
slå sig selv ihjel ret hurtigt.
slå sig selv ihjel ret hurtigt.
04:07
and almost always
kill itself quite quickly.
kill itself quite quickly.
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04:09
So there you go, right?
That's how we think it works.
That's how we think it works.
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Det er sådan vi tror det fungerer - ikke?
Professor Alexander kiggede nærmere
på eksperimentet i 70'erne,
på eksperimentet i 70'erne,
04:12
In the '70s, Professor Alexander comes
along and he looks at this experiment
along and he looks at this experiment
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og han lagde mærke til noget.
04:15
and he noticed something.
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Han sagde "Aha,
man sætter rotten i et tomt bur."
man sætter rotten i et tomt bur."
04:17
He said ah, we're putting
the rat in an empty cage.
the rat in an empty cage.
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"Den har intet at foretage sig,
bortset fra at tage disse stoffer."
bortset fra at tage disse stoffer."
04:19
It's got nothing to do
except use these drugs.
except use these drugs.
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"Lad os gøre det lidt anderledes."
04:21
Let's try something different.
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Professor Alexander byggede så et bur,
som han kaldte 'Rotteparken',
som han kaldte 'Rotteparken',
04:23
So Professor Alexander built a cage
that he called "Rat Park,"
that he called "Rat Park,"
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som, dybest set, er himlen for rotter.
04:26
which is basically heaven for rats.
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04:28
They've got loads of cheese,
they've got loads of colored balls,
they've got loads of colored balls,
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De fik masser af ost,
de fik masser af farvede bolde,
de fik masser af farvede bolde,
de fik masser af tunneller,
04:31
they've got loads of tunnels.
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og, afgørende, de fik masser af venner.
De kunne have masser af sex.
De kunne have masser af sex.
04:33
Crucially, they've got loads of friends.
They can have loads of sex.
They can have loads of sex.
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Og de fik både rent vand og narko-vand.
04:36
And they've got both the water bottles,
the normal water and the drugged water.
the normal water and the drugged water.
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04:41
But here's the fascinating thing:
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Men her kommer det interessante,
04:44
In Rat Park, they don't
like the drug water.
like the drug water.
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i Rotteparken kunne de ikke
lide narko-vandet.
lide narko-vandet.
04:47
They almost never use it.
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De drak det næsten aldrig.
04:49
None of them ever use it compulsively.
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Ingen af dem drak det tvangsmæssigt.
04:51
None of them ever overdose.
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Ingen fik en overdosis.
04:53
You go from almost 100 percent overdose
when they're isolated
when they're isolated
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Man gik fra næsten 100 procent overdosis,
når de var isolerede,
når de var isolerede,
04:56
to zero percent overdose when they
have happy and connected lives.
have happy and connected lives.
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til nul procent,
når de er glade og forbundne.
når de er glade og forbundne.
04:59
Now, when he first saw this,
Professor Alexander thought,
Professor Alexander thought,
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Da professor Alexander første gang
så dette, tænkte han
så dette, tænkte han
05:03
maybe this is just a thing about rats,
they're quite different to us.
they're quite different to us.
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at måske gælder det bare rotter.
De er anderledes end os.
De er anderledes end os.
Måske alligevel ikke så forskellige,
som vi gerne vil tro.
som vi gerne vil tro.
05:06
Maybe not as different as we'd like,
but, you know --
but, you know --
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Heldigvis var der, på samme tid,
et eksperiment med mennesker,
et eksperiment med mennesker,
05:09
But fortunately, there was
a human experiment
a human experiment
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05:11
into the exact same principle happening
at the exact same time.
at the exact same time.
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efter nøjagtig samme princip.
05:14
It was called the Vietnam War.
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Det blev kaldt Vietnamkrigen.
05:16
In Vietnam, 20 percent of all American
troops were using loads of heroin,
troops were using loads of heroin,
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I Vietnam tog 20 procent af alle
amerikanske tropper masser af heroin,
amerikanske tropper masser af heroin,
05:20
and if you look at the news
reports from the time,
reports from the time,
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og når man læser aviser fra dengang,
05:23
they were really worried, because
they thought, my God, we're going to have
they thought, my God, we're going to have
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så var man meget bekymret,
fordi man troede "Åh Gud. Vi får
fordi man troede "Åh Gud. Vi får
05:27
hundreds of thousands of junkies
on the streets of the United States
on the streets of the United States
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hundredtusinder af junkier på gaderne
i USA, når krigen slutter".
i USA, når krigen slutter".
05:30
when the war ends; it made total sense.
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Det var helt logisk.
05:32
Now, those soldiers who were using
loads of heroin were followed home.
loads of heroin were followed home.
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De soldater, som tog masser
af heroin, blev fulgt hjem.
af heroin, blev fulgt hjem.
Archives of General Psychiatry udførte
en meget detaljeret undersøgelse.
en meget detaljeret undersøgelse.
05:35
The Archives of General Psychiatry
did a really detailed study,
did a really detailed study,
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Og hvad skete der med dem?
05:38
and what happened to them?
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05:40
It turns out they didn't go to rehab.
They didn't go into withdrawal.
They didn't go into withdrawal.
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Det viste sig, at de ikke gik til afvænning.
De gik ikke tilbage på stoffer.
De gik ikke tilbage på stoffer.
05:44
Ninety-five percent of them just stopped.
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95 procent holdt bare op.
05:47
Now, if you believe the story
about chemical hooks,
about chemical hooks,
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Historien om kemiske kroge
giver ingen mening.
giver ingen mening.
05:49
that makes absolutely no sense,
but Professor Alexander began to think
but Professor Alexander began to think
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Men professor Alexander tænkte,
at der kunne være en anden
forklaring på afhængighed.
forklaring på afhængighed.
05:53
there might be a different
story about addiction.
story about addiction.
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Han tænkte, "hvad hvis afhængighed
ikke skyldes kemiske kroge?"
ikke skyldes kemiske kroge?"
05:55
He said, what if addiction isn't
about your chemical hooks?
about your chemical hooks?
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05:58
What if addiction is about your cage?
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Hvad hvis misbruget skyldes buret?
06:01
What if addiction is an adaptation
to your environment?
to your environment?
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Hvad hvis afhængighed er
en tilpasning til miljøet?
en tilpasning til miljøet?
Professor Peter Cohen fra Holland
06:04
Looking at this,
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06:05
there was another professor
called Peter Cohen in the Netherlands
called Peter Cohen in the Netherlands
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kiggede på det, og sagde
at måske bør det
ikke engang kaldes misbrug.
ikke engang kaldes misbrug.
06:08
who said, maybe we shouldn't
even call it addiction.
even call it addiction.
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Måske bør vi kalde det tilknytning.
06:11
Maybe we should call it bonding.
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06:12
Human beings have a natural
and innate need to bond,
and innate need to bond,
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Mennesker har en naturlig
iboende trang til at tilknytte sig,
iboende trang til at tilknytte sig,
06:15
and when we're happy and healthy,
we'll bond and connect with each other,
we'll bond and connect with each other,
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og når vi er glade og sunde,
så knytter og forbinder vi os med hinanden.
så knytter og forbinder vi os med hinanden.
06:19
but if you can't do that,
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Men hvis man ikke kan gøre det,
06:22
because you're traumatized or isolated
or beaten down by life,
or beaten down by life,
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fordi man er traumatiseret
eller isoleret eller slået ud af livet,
eller isoleret eller slået ud af livet,
06:25
you will bond with something
that will give you some sense of relief.
that will give you some sense of relief.
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så vil man knytte sig til noget,
som giver én en følelse af lettelse.
som giver én en følelse af lettelse.
06:29
Now, that might be gambling,
that might be pornography,
that might be pornography,
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Det kan være spil,
det kan være pornografi,
det kan være pornografi,
det kan være kokain,
det kan være cannabis,
det kan være cannabis,
06:31
that might be cocaine,
that might be cannabis,
that might be cannabis,
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men man vil knytte sig til noget,
fordi det er ens natur.
fordi det er ens natur.
06:33
but you will bond and connect
with something because that's our nature.
with something because that's our nature.
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06:37
That's what we want as human beings.
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Det er det vi ønsker som mennesker.
06:40
And at first, I found this quite
a difficult thing to get my head around,
a difficult thing to get my head around,
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I starten, fandt jeg det svært
at få ind i mit hoved,
at få ind i mit hoved,
06:43
but one way that helped me
to think about it is,
to think about it is,
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men en måde,
som hjalp mig til at forstå det, er
som hjalp mig til at forstå det, er
06:46
I can see, I've got over by my seat
a bottle of water, right?
a bottle of water, right?
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jeg ser, at jeg har en flaske vand
på mit sæde, ikke?
på mit sæde, ikke?
06:49
I'm looking at lots of you, and lots
of you have bottles of water with you.
of you have bottles of water with you.
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Jeg ser at mange af jer,
har en flaske vand hos jer.
har en flaske vand hos jer.
Glem stofferne. Glem krigen mod drugs.
06:53
Forget the drugs. Forget the drug war.
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06:55
Totally legally, all of those bottles
of water could be bottles of vodka, right?
of water could be bottles of vodka, right?
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Alle disse flasker kunne, helt legalt,
være fyldt med vodka, ikke?
være fyldt med vodka, ikke?
06:59
We could all be getting drunk --
I might after this -- (Laughter) --
I might after this -- (Laughter) --
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Vi kunne alle blive fulde, (latter)
07:03
but we're not.
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men det bliver vi ikke.
Og da i har kunnet betale
det hvide ud øjnene
det hvide ud øjnene
07:04
Now, because you've been able to afford
the approximately gazillion pounds
the approximately gazillion pounds
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som det koster, at komme til TED talk,
så tror jeg,
så tror jeg,
07:08
that it costs to get into a TED Talk,
I'm guessing you guys could afford
I'm guessing you guys could afford
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at i også har råd til at drikke vodka
i de næste seks måneder.
i de næste seks måneder.
07:11
to be drinking vodka
for the next six months.
for the next six months.
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07:13
You wouldn't end up homeless.
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I ville ikke blive hjemløse.
07:15
You're not going to do that,
and the reason you're not going to do that
and the reason you're not going to do that
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Men i ville ikke gøre det,
og det skyldes ikke
og det skyldes ikke
07:19
is not because anyone's stopping you.
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at noget vil hindre jer.
Det er fordi i har tilknytninger
og forbindelser,
og forbindelser,
07:21
It's because you've got
bonds and connections
bonds and connections
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som i helst vil være til stede for.
07:23
that you want to be present for.
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I har et arbejde i holder af.
I har nogle i holder.
I har nogle i holder.
07:25
You've got work you love.
You've got people you love.
You've got people you love.
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I har sunde relationer.
07:27
You've got healthy relationships.
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07:29
And a core part of addiction,
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Og en central del af afhængighed,
tror jeg nu
tror jeg nu
07:32
I came to think, and I believe
the evidence suggests,
the evidence suggests,
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og jeg mener at beviserne bekræfter,
at det drejer sig om dette, ikke at kunne bære,
at være til stede i ens liv.
at være til stede i ens liv.
07:34
is about not being able to bear
to be present in your life.
to be present in your life.
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3814
07:38
Now, this has really
significant implications.
significant implications.
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Det har rigtigt store følgevirkninger.
07:41
The most obvious implications
are for the War on Drugs.
are for the War on Drugs.
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Den mest indlysende følgevirkning gælder
for Krigen mod Drugs.
for Krigen mod Drugs.
07:44
In Arizona, I went out
with a group of women
with a group of women
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I Arizona, var jeg ude sammen med
en gruppe kvinder,
en gruppe kvinder,
07:47
who were made to wear t-shirts
saying, "I was a drug addict,"
saying, "I was a drug addict,"
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som skulle bære T-shirts
med påskriften 'Jeg var en misbruger',
med påskriften 'Jeg var en misbruger',
07:51
and go out on chain gangs and dig graves
while members of the public jeer at them,
while members of the public jeer at them,
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og gå lænkede i kæder og grave grøfter,
mens folk spottede dem.
mens folk spottede dem.
Når disse kvinder kommer ud af fængslet,
så har de en plettet straffeattest,
så har de en plettet straffeattest,
07:56
and when those women get out of prison,
they're going to have criminal records
they're going to have criminal records
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som betyder, at de aldrig vil arbejde
i den legale økonomi igen.
i den legale økonomi igen.
08:00
that mean they'll never work
in the legal economy again.
in the legal economy again.
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Dette er et meget ekstremt eksempel
med lænkede kvinder,
med lænkede kvinder,
08:02
Now, that's a very extreme example,
obviously, in the case of the chain gang,
obviously, in the case of the chain gang,
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08:06
but actually almost
everywhere in the world
everywhere in the world
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men over stort set hele verden,
behandler vi, til en vis grad,
misbrugere på denne måde.
misbrugere på denne måde.
08:08
we treat addicts to some degree like that.
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Vi straffer dem. Vi skammer dem.
Vi giver dem en plettet straffeattest.
Vi giver dem en plettet straffeattest.
08:10
We punish them. We shame them.
We give them criminal records.
We give them criminal records.
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Vi sætter hindringer op
mod dannelse af ny tilknytning.
mod dannelse af ny tilknytning.
08:13
We put barriers between them reconnecting.
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08:16
There was a doctor in Canada,
Dr. Gabor Maté, an amazing man,
Dr. Gabor Maté, an amazing man,
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Der var en doktor i Canada, Dr. Gabor Maté,
en forbløffende mand,
en forbløffende mand,
08:19
who said to me, if you wanted to design
a system that would make addiction worse,
a system that would make addiction worse,
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som fortalte mig, at hvis man ville lave
et system, som vil gøre misbruget værre,
et system, som vil gøre misbruget værre,
08:23
you would design that system.
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så ville man lave dette system.
Nuvel, der findes et sted,
som besluttede at gøre det stik modsatte,
som besluttede at gøre det stik modsatte,
08:24
Now, there's a place that decided
to do the exact opposite,
to do the exact opposite,
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08:27
and I went there to see how it worked.
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og jeg tog dertil
for at se hvordan det virkede.
for at se hvordan det virkede.
08:29
In the year 2000, Portugal had
one of the worst drug problems in Europe.
one of the worst drug problems in Europe.
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I år 2000 havde Portugal én af
de værste problemer med drugs i Europa.
de værste problemer med drugs i Europa.
08:33
One percent of the population was addicted
to heroin, which is kind of mind-blowing,
to heroin, which is kind of mind-blowing,
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Én procent af befolkningen var misbrugere
af heroin, hvilket er vanvittigt mange.
af heroin, hvilket er vanvittigt mange.
08:36
and every year, they tried
the American way more and more.
the American way more and more.
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Og hvert år forsøgte de sig mere og mere
med ´the American Way´,
med ´the American Way´,
08:39
They punished people and stigmatized them
and shamed them more,
and shamed them more,
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Man straffede folk og stigmatiserede dem
og skammede dem
og skammede dem
08:42
and every year, the problem got worse.
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og hvert år blev problemet værre.
08:44
And one day, the Prime Minister and
the leader of the opposition got together,
the leader of the opposition got together,
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En dag stak Premierministeren og
lederen af oppositionen hovedet sammen,
lederen af oppositionen hovedet sammen,
08:48
and basically said, look, we can't go on
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og sagde "Det ikke længere kan gå"
"med at land, hvor man har stadig flere,
som bliver heroinmisbrugere."
som bliver heroinmisbrugere."
08:50
with a country where we're having
ever more people becoming heroin addicts.
ever more people becoming heroin addicts.
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"Lad os nedsætte et videnskabeligt panel"
08:53
Let's set up a panel
of scientists and doctors
of scientists and doctors
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"som skal finde ud af,
hvad der virkelig vil løse problemet."
hvad der virkelig vil løse problemet."
08:56
to figure out what would
genuinely solve the problem.
genuinely solve the problem.
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Og panelet blev sat op og ledt af
en utrolig mand, Dr. João Goulão,
en utrolig mand, Dr. João Goulão,
08:58
And they set up a panel led by
an amazing man called Dr. João Goulão,
an amazing man called Dr. João Goulão,
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som skulle skaffe klarhed over
al den ny viden
al den ny viden
09:01
to look at all this new evidence,
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1626
09:03
and they came back and they said,
190
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Man kom tilbage og sagde
09:05
"Decriminalize all drugs
from cannabis to crack, but" --
from cannabis to crack, but" --
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4296
"Afkriminaliser alle stoffer
fra cannabis til crack, men"
fra cannabis til crack, men"
09:09
and this is the crucial next step --
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-- og det er det væsentlige --
09:11
"take all the money we used to spend
on cutting addicts off,
on cutting addicts off,
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"brug alle de penge, som vi brugte
på at bekæmpe stofmisbrugere,"
på at bekæmpe stofmisbrugere,"
09:15
on disconnecting them,
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1397
"og hindre nye tilknytninger,"
09:16
and spend it instead
on reconnecting them with society."
on reconnecting them with society."
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3640
"og brug i stedet pengene på
at genskabe tilknytning til samfundet."
at genskabe tilknytning til samfundet."
09:20
And that's not really what we think of
as drug treatment
as drug treatment
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Det er ikke lige det,
vi forstår ved misbrugsbehandling
vi forstår ved misbrugsbehandling
09:25
in the United States and Britain.
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i USA og Storbritannien.
09:26
So they do do residential rehab,
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Så de brugte misbrugscentre,
09:28
they do psychological therapy,
that does have some value.
that does have some value.
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2808
de brugte psykologhjælp,
der har nogen virkning.
der har nogen virkning.
09:31
But the biggest thing they did
was the complete opposite of what we do:
was the complete opposite of what we do:
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Men det største, som de gjorde,
var det stik modsatte af hvad vi gør:
var det stik modsatte af hvad vi gør:
09:34
a massive program
of job creation for addicts,
of job creation for addicts,
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Et kæmpeprogram
for jobskabelse for misbrugere,
for jobskabelse for misbrugere,
og mikrolån for misbrugere,
så de kan starte en mindre forretning.
så de kan starte en mindre forretning.
09:37
and microloans for addicts
to set up small businesses.
to set up small businesses.
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09:39
So say you used to be a mechanic.
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Lad os sige,
at én havde været mekaniker,
at én havde været mekaniker,
09:41
When you're ready, they'll go
to a garage, and they'll say,
to a garage, and they'll say,
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Når man er klar,
så ville man besøge et værksted og sige
så ville man besøge et værksted og sige
09:44
if you employ this guy for a year,
we'll pay half his wages.
we'll pay half his wages.
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"hvis du ansætter denne fyr i et år,
så vil vi betale halvdelen af hans løn".
så vil vi betale halvdelen af hans løn".
09:47
The goal was to make sure
that every addict in Portugal
that every addict in Portugal
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Målet var at give
alle misbrugere i Portugal
alle misbrugere i Portugal
09:50
had something to get out
of bed for in the morning.
of bed for in the morning.
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noget at stå op til om morgenen.
Da jeg mødte misbrugerne i Portugal,
09:52
And when I went and met the addicts
in Portugal,
in Portugal,
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09:55
what they said is,
as they rediscovered purpose,
as they rediscovered purpose,
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2254
sagde de, at de genfandt formål i livet,
de genfandt tilknytninger og relationer
med det omkringliggende samfund.
med det omkringliggende samfund.
09:57
they rediscovered bonds
and relationships with the wider society.
and relationships with the wider society.
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10:01
It'll be 15 years this year
since that experiment began,
since that experiment began,
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Der er nu gået 15 år siden
det eksperiment begyndte,
det eksperiment begyndte,
og resultatet kan nu ses:
10:03
and the results are in:
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1643
10:05
injecting drug use is down in Portugal,
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1858
Brug af sprøjte er
i henhold til 'The British Journal of Ciminology'
10:07
according to the British
Journal of Criminology,
Journal of Criminology,
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10:09
by 50 percent, five-zero percent.
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2563
nede på 50 procent, fem-nul procent.
10:12
Overdose is massively down,
HIV is massively down among addicts.
HIV is massively down among addicts.
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Overdosis'er er reduceret voldsomt.
HIV er reduceret voldsomt.
HIV er reduceret voldsomt.
Alle undersøgelser viser
et betydeligt mindre misbrug.
et betydeligt mindre misbrug.
10:16
Addiction in every study
is significantly down.
is significantly down.
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10:18
One of the ways you know it's worked
so well is that almost nobody in Portugal
so well is that almost nobody in Portugal
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3839
Den måde man ved,
at det har virket så godt,
at det har virket så godt,
er, at kun få vil tilbage
til det gamle system.
til det gamle system.
10:22
wants to go back to the old system.
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10:24
Now, that's the political implications.
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Dette er den politiske implikation.
10:26
I actually think there's a layer
of implications
of implications
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Jeg mener faktisk, at der under den,
findes et lag af implikationer
findes et lag af implikationer
10:29
to all this research below that.
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under dette, til al den forskning.
10:30
We live in a culture where people
feel really increasingly vulnerable
feel really increasingly vulnerable
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Vi lever i en kultur, hvor befolkningen,
i stigende grad, føler sig sårbar
i stigende grad, føler sig sårbar
10:33
to all sorts of addictions,
whether it's to their smartphones
whether it's to their smartphones
224
621970
2956
til afhængighed af alt muligt,
hvad enten det er deres smartphone,
hvad enten det er deres smartphone,
10:36
or to shopping or to eating.
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1334
eller det er shopping eller spisning.
10:38
Before these talks began --
you guys know this --
you guys know this --
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Før disse foredrag -- det ved i --
10:40
we were told we weren't allowed
to have our smartphones on,
to have our smartphones on,
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2840
fik vi at vide,
at vi ikke måtte tage smartphones med,
at vi ikke måtte tage smartphones med,
og jeg må nok sige,
at der var mange af jer, som lignede
at der var mange af jer, som lignede
10:43
and I have to say, a lot of you
looked an awful lot like
looked an awful lot like
228
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2621
10:46
addicts who were told their dealer
was going to be unavailable
was going to be unavailable
229
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2985
misbrugere, som får at vide,
at deres pusher var borte
at deres pusher var borte
i et par timer. (latter)
10:49
for the next couple of hours. (Laughter)
230
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1905
Mange af os føler det sådan,
og det lyder måske mærkeligt at sige det,
og det lyder måske mærkeligt at sige det,
10:51
A lot of us feel like that,
and it might sound weird to say,
and it might sound weird to say,
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at jeg har talt om hvordan manglende
tilknytning, er en stor drivkraft bag misbrug,
tilknytning, er en stor drivkraft bag misbrug,
10:53
I've been talking about how disconnection
is a major driver of addiction
is a major driver of addiction
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3393
og det er mærkeligt,
at sige at det er stigende,
at sige at det er stigende,
10:57
and weird to say it's growing,
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1429
fordi man tror, at vi er det mest
sammenknyttede samfund i verden - med rette.
sammenknyttede samfund i verden - med rette.
10:58
because you think we're the most connected
society that's ever been, surely.
society that's ever been, surely.
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Men jeg er i stigende grad begyndt
at mene, at de tilknytninger vi har
at mene, at de tilknytninger vi har
11:02
But I increasingly began to think
that the connections we have
that the connections we have
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eller tror vi har, er lidt af en parodi
på menneskelig tilknytning.
på menneskelig tilknytning.
11:05
or think we have, are like a kind
of parody of human connection.
of parody of human connection.
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Hvis du har en krise i livet,
så vil du opdage
så vil du opdage
11:08
If you have a crisis in your life,
you'll notice something.
you'll notice something.
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at det ikke er dine Twitter-followers,
som kommer for at besøge dig.
som kommer for at besøge dig.
11:11
It won't be your Twitter followers
who come to sit with you.
who come to sit with you.
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Det er ikke dine Facebook-venner,
som hjælper dig til at få det til at løbe rundt.
som hjælper dig til at få det til at løbe rundt.
11:14
It won't be your Facebook friends
who help you turn it round.
who help you turn it round.
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11:17
It'll be your flesh and blood friends
who you have deep and nuanced
who you have deep and nuanced
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Det er der kun dine venner af kød og blod,
som du har en dyb, nuanceret
som du har en dyb, nuanceret
11:20
and textured, face-to-face
relationships with,
relationships with,
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og rig ansigt-til-ansigt forhold til.
11:22
and there's a study I learned about from
Bill McKibben, the environmental writer,
Bill McKibben, the environmental writer,
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Der er en undersøgelse
af miljøforfatteren Bill McKibben,
af miljøforfatteren Bill McKibben,
11:27
that I think tells us a lot about this.
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som jeg synes fortæller
en hel del om dette.
en hel del om dette.
11:29
He looked at the number of close friends
the average American believes
the average American believes
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Han så på det antal af nære venner,
som den gennemsnitlige amerikaner tror
som den gennemsnitlige amerikaner tror
11:32
they can call on in a crisis.
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de kan stole på i en krisesituation.
11:34
That number has been declining
steadily since the 1950s.
steadily since the 1950s.
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Antallet har været jævnt faldende
siden 1950'erne.
siden 1950'erne.
11:37
The amount of floor space
an individual has in their home
an individual has in their home
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Antallet af kvadratmetre i deres hjem
11:40
has been steadily increasing,
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har været konstant stigende,
11:42
and I think that's like a metaphor
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og jeg mener at det er et udtryk
11:44
for the choice we've made as a culture.
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for det valg vi har gjort som en kultur.
11:46
We've traded floorspace for friends,
we've traded stuff for connections,
we've traded stuff for connections,
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Vi har handlet kvadratmetre for venner.
Vi har handlet ragelse for tilknytninger,
Vi har handlet ragelse for tilknytninger,
og resultatet er, at vi er et af de
ensomste samfund, der nogensinde har været.
ensomste samfund, der nogensinde har været.
11:51
and the result is we are one of the
loneliest societies there has ever been.
loneliest societies there has ever been.
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11:54
And Bruce Alexander, the guy who did
the Rat Park experiment, says,
the Rat Park experiment, says,
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Og Bruce Alexander, ham der lavede
Rottepark eksperimentet, siger
Rottepark eksperimentet, siger
11:58
we talk all the time in addiction
about individual recovery,
about individual recovery,
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at om misbrug, taler vi hele tiden
om individuel genopretning,
om individuel genopretning,
12:01
and it's right to talk about that,
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og det er rigtigt at tale om det,
12:03
but we need to talk much more
about social recovery.
about social recovery.
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men vi må tale langt mere
om social genopretning.
om social genopretning.
12:06
Something's gone wrong with us,
not just with individuals but as a group,
not just with individuals but as a group,
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Noget er gået galt med os, ikke blot
som individer, men som gruppe.
som individer, men som gruppe.
Vi har skabt et samfund hvor livet
- for manges vedkommende -
- for manges vedkommende -
12:09
and we've created a society where,
for a lot of us,
for a lot of us,
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12:12
life looks a whole lot more
like that isolated cage
like that isolated cage
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i høj grad ligner et isoleret bur
12:14
and a whole lot less like Rat Park.
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og langt mindre en Rottepark.
Når jeg skal være ærlig, så er dette ikke
grunden til at jeg begyndte på det her.
grunden til at jeg begyndte på det her.
12:16
If I'm honest, this isn't
why I went into it.
why I went into it.
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12:19
I didn't go in to the discover
the political stuff, the social stuff.
the political stuff, the social stuff.
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Jeg gik ikke ind i det, for at lære
om det politiske og det sociale.
om det politiske og det sociale.
12:23
I wanted to know how to help
the people I love.
the people I love.
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Jeg ønskede at vide, hvordan man
hjalp de mennesker jeg holdt af.
hjalp de mennesker jeg holdt af.
12:25
And when I came back from this
long journey and I'd learned all this,
long journey and I'd learned all this,
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Da jeg kom tilbage fra denne
lange rejse, og havde lært alt dette,
lange rejse, og havde lært alt dette,
så kiggede jeg på misbrugerne i mit liv,
12:28
I looked at the addicts in my life,
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12:31
and if you're really candid,
it's hard loving an addict,
it's hard loving an addict,
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og hvis du skal være helt ærlig,
så er det svært at elske en misbruger,
så er det svært at elske en misbruger,
12:36
and there's going to be lots of people
who know in this room.
who know in this room.
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og der er mange i dette rum som ved det.
Man bliver ofte vred,
12:39
You are angry a lot of the time,
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12:41
and I think one of the reasons
why this debate is so charged
why this debate is so charged
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og jeg tror, at en af grundene til,
at denne debat er så ladet,
at denne debat er så ladet,
12:45
is because it runs through the heart
of each of us, right?
of each of us, right?
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er fordi dette går lige til hjertet, ikke?
Alle har det ligesom dem,
der kigger på en misbruger og tænker,
der kigger på en misbruger og tænker,
12:48
Everyone has a bit of them
that looks at an addict and thinks,
that looks at an addict and thinks,
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12:51
I wish someone would just stop you.
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bare nogen kunne stoppe dig.
Den slags recepter vi får, på hvordan
vi skal omgås misbrugerne i vores liv
vi skal omgås misbrugerne i vores liv
12:52
And the kind of scripts we're told for how
to deal with the addicts in our lives
to deal with the addicts in our lives
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synes jeg, er karakteriseret ved
12:56
is typified by, I think,
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realityshowet 'Intervention',
hvis i har set den.
hvis i har set den.
12:57
the reality show "Intervention,"
if you guys have ever seen it.
if you guys have ever seen it.
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Jeg synes alt i vores liv,
er bestemt af reality TV,
er bestemt af reality TV,
13:00
I think everything in our lives
is defined by reality TV,
is defined by reality TV,
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men det er en anden TED Talk.
13:03
but that's another TED Talk.
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13:04
If you've ever seen
the show "Intervention,"
the show "Intervention,"
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Hvis du har set 'Intervention'.
13:07
it's a pretty simple premise.
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Den har en ret simpel grundide.
13:08
Get an addict, all the people
in their life, gather them together,
in their life, gather them together,
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Få fat i en misbruger
og alle personer i hans liv.
og alle personer i hans liv.
Saml dem og konfronter ham med hvad han gør,
og sig, at hvis du ikke tager dig sammen,
og sig, at hvis du ikke tager dig sammen,
13:11
confront them with what they're doing,
and they say, if you don't shape up,
and they say, if you don't shape up,
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13:15
we're going to cut you off.
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så er det helt farvel.
13:16
So what they do is they take
the connection to the addict,
the connection to the addict,
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De tager misbrugerens tilknytninger,
og truer ham, og gør det betinget af,
13:19
and they threaten it,
they make it contingent
they make it contingent
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at misbrugeren opfører sig som de ønsker.
13:21
on the addict behaving the way they want.
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13:24
And I began to think, I began to see
why that approach doesn't work,
why that approach doesn't work,
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Jeg begyndte at forstå, hvorfor
den fremgangsmåde ikke virker,
den fremgangsmåde ikke virker,
13:27
and I began to think that's almost like
the importing of the logic of the Drug War
the importing of the logic of the Drug War
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og jeg begyndte at se, at det er næsten
som en kopiering af logikken i War on Drugs
som en kopiering af logikken i War on Drugs
13:32
into our private lives.
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ind i vore private liv.
13:34
So I was thinking,
how could I be Portuguese?
how could I be Portuguese?
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Jeg begyndte at tænke
'hvordan bliver jeg Portugiser'?
'hvordan bliver jeg Portugiser'?
Hvad jeg har forsøgt indtil nu,
13:37
And what I've tried to do now,
and I can't tell you I do it consistently
and I can't tell you I do it consistently
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- og jeg kan ikke sige, at jeg gør det konsekvent
- og jeg kan ikke sige at det er nemt,
- og jeg kan ikke sige at det er nemt,
13:41
and I can't tell you it's easy,
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13:43
is to say to the addicts in my life
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er at sige til misbrugerne i mit liv,
13:45
that I want to deepen
the connection with them,
the connection with them,
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at jeg ønsker
at udbygge forbindelsen med dem,
at udbygge forbindelsen med dem,
13:48
to say to them, I love you
whether you're using or you're not.
whether you're using or you're not.
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at sige, at jeg holder af dem,
uanset hvad du tager.
uanset hvad du tager.
13:51
I love you, whatever state you're in,
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så jeg holder af dig,
ligegyldig hvilken tilstand du er i,
ligegyldig hvilken tilstand du er i,
13:54
and if you need me,
I'll come and sit with you
I'll come and sit with you
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og hvis du har brug for mig,
så kommer jeg og sidder hos dig,
så kommer jeg og sidder hos dig,
13:57
because I love you and I don't
want you to be alone
want you to be alone
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fordi jeg holder af dig, og ikke vil,
at du er alene
at du er alene
13:59
or to feel alone.
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eller føler dig alene.
14:01
And I think the core of that message --
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Og jeg tror at budskabets kerne
14:03
you're not alone, we love you --
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-- du er ikke alene, vi holder af dig --
14:06
has to be at every level
of how we respond to addicts,
of how we respond to addicts,
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skal altid findes, når vi omgås misbrugere,
14:09
socially, politically and individually.
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socialt, politisk og individuelt.
14:12
For 100 years now, we've been singing
war songs about addicts.
war songs about addicts.
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Vi har sunget krigssange
om misbrugere i 100 år.
om misbrugere i 100 år.
14:16
I think all along we should have been
singing love songs to them,
singing love songs to them,
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Jeg synes, vi skulle have sunget
kærlighedssange i stedet,
kærlighedssange i stedet,
14:20
because the opposite of addiction
is not sobriety.
is not sobriety.
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fordi det modsatte af misbrug
er ikke stoffri.
er ikke stoffri.
14:24
The opposite of addiction is connection.
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Det modsatte af misbrug er tilknytning.
14:28
Thank you.
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Mange tak.
14:30
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Johann Hari - JournalistJohann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is.
Why you should listen
British journalist Johann Hari is the author of the New York Times best-selling book Chasing The Scream, from which his talk on addiction was adapted and for which he spent three years researching the war on drugs and questioning the ways in which we treat addiction.
He has written for many of the world’s leading newspapers and magazines, including The New York Times, Le Monde, The Guardian, New Republic, The Nation, Slate.com, and The Sydney Morning Herald. He was a columnist for the British newspaper The Independent for nine years.
Hari was twice named National Newspaper Journalist of the Year by Amnesty International, was named Gay Journalist of the Year at the Stonewall Awards -- and won the Martha Gellhorn Prize for political writing.
Johann Hari | Speaker | TED.com