TEDGlobalLondon
Johann Hari: Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong
约翰·哈里: 那些你所知道的有关上瘾的事都是错的
Filmed:
Readability: 3.8
15,145,979 views
什么会导致上瘾--所有的一切，从可卡因到智慧型手机？那我们要如何克服呢？约翰·哈里亲眼看到我们当今使用的方法失败了，他看着他的亲人朋友们挣扎着想要遏制自己的上瘾。他想，为什么要选择现在的方法--也许还有更好的方式。他分享了这个令人深思的演讲，他的问题带领他环游世界并发觉那些带来希望的奇特方法去思考，上瘾这个由来已久的问题。
Johann Hari - Journalist
Johann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is. Full bio
Johann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
One of my earliest memories
0
597
1741
我早年间的一个回忆
00:14
is of trying to wake up
one of my relatives and not being able to.
one of my relatives and not being able to.
1
2362
3096
就是试图去叫醒一个亲戚，但却叫不醒他
我当时只是一个小孩，并不知道为什么
00:17
And I was just a little kid,
so I didn't really understand why,
so I didn't really understand why,
2
5482
2953
当我长大了后
00:20
but as I got older,
3
8459
1310
00:21
I realized we had
drug addiction in my family,
drug addiction in my family,
4
9793
2143
我意识到我们家里有人吸毒上瘾了
到后来吸可卡因上瘾了
00:23
including later cocaine addiction.
5
11960
1834
00:25
I'd been thinking about it a lot lately,
partly because it's now exactly 100 years
partly because it's now exactly 100 years
6
13818
4779
我最近常常想这个问题，可能是因为现在是
毒品第一次在美国和英国被禁止的第100年
00:30
since drugs were first banned
in the United States and Britain,
in the United States and Britain,
7
18621
3046
00:33
and we then imposed that
on the rest of the world.
on the rest of the world.
8
21691
2515
我们接下来将这一项禁令推广到了全世界
我们做这一项生死攸关的决定已经有一个世纪了
00:36
It's a century since we made
this really fateful decision
this really fateful decision
9
24230
3496
00:39
to take addicts and punish them
and make them suffer,
and make them suffer,
10
27750
4053
对上瘾者进行惩罚，使他们痛苦
00:43
because we believed that would deter them;
it would give them an incentive to stop.
it would give them an incentive to stop.
11
31827
4387
因为我们认为这样能够阻止他们，给他们一个停下来的激励
00:48
And a few years ago, I was looking at
some of the addicts in my life who I love,
some of the addicts in my life who I love,
12
36238
4969
几年之前，我看着那些在我身边的至亲，饱受毒瘾困扰
00:53
and trying to figure out
if there was some way to help them.
if there was some way to help them.
13
41231
3389
想找到一些能够帮助他们的方法
00:56
And I realized there were loads
of incredibly basic questions
of incredibly basic questions
14
44644
3250
然后发现，有许多难以置信的问题
00:59
I just didn't know the answer to,
15
47918
1810
我不知道如何回答
01:01
like, what really causes addiction?
16
49752
2416
比如，什么造成了上瘾
01:04
Why do we carry on with this approach
that doesn't seem to be working,
that doesn't seem to be working,
17
52192
3416
为什么我们仍在使用这种看起来并不管用的方法
01:07
and is there a better way out there
that we could try instead?
that we could try instead?
18
55632
2905
是否还有一种更好的方法值得我们尝试？
我读了很多相关资料，
01:10
So I read loads of stuff about it,
19
58561
1690
01:12
and I couldn't really find
the answers I was looking for,
the answers I was looking for,
20
60275
2667
然而却不能找到我想要的答案
所以我想，好吧，就去见见那些世界上各种
01:14
so I thought, okay, I'll go and sit
with different people around the world
with different people around the world
21
62966
3536
以此为生的人和研究这些问题的专家
01:18
who lived this and studied this
22
66526
1664
和他们聊聊看是否能够从他们中找到答案
01:20
and talk to them and see
if I could learn from them.
if I could learn from them.
23
68214
2541
我一开始没想到自己最后竟然一走就是30,000多英里
01:22
And I didn't realize I would end up
going over 30,000 miles at the start,
going over 30,000 miles at the start,
24
70779
3477
遇见了许多不同的人
01:26
but I ended up going and meeting
loads of different people,
loads of different people,
25
74280
2884
从布鲁克林区布朗斯维尔的变性毒贩
01:29
from a transgender crack dealer
in Brownsville, Brooklyn,
in Brownsville, Brooklyn,
26
77188
2755
到花了许多时间喂猫鼬致幻剂，
01:31
to a scientist who spends a lot of time
feeding hallucinogens to mongooses
feeding hallucinogens to mongooses
27
79967
3554
看它们是否对此感兴趣的科学家
01:35
to see if they like them --
28
83545
1286
结果是它们确实对此感兴趣，但只在特定的情况下
01:36
it turns out they do, but only
in very specific circumstances --
in very specific circumstances --
29
84855
3081
我也去了唯一一个对所有毒品合法化的国家，葡萄牙
01:39
to the only country that's ever
decriminalized all drugs,
decriminalized all drugs,
30
87960
2771
在那从毒品到大麻都无罪
01:42
from cannabis to crack, Portugal.
31
90755
2355
真正让我震惊的事情是
01:45
And the thing I realized
that really blew my mind is,
that really blew my mind is,
32
93134
2577
01:47
almost everything we think
we know about addiction is wrong,
we know about addiction is wrong,
33
95735
3784
我们对毒瘾的认知几乎是全部错误的
01:51
and if we start to absorb
the new evidence about addiction,
the new evidence about addiction,
34
99543
3087
如果我们开始吸纳关于毒瘾的新的证据
01:54
I think we're going to have to change
a lot more than our drug policies.
a lot more than our drug policies.
35
102654
3422
我认为我们得改变包括毒品政策在内的许多东西
01:58
But let's start with what we think
we know, what I thought I knew.
we know, what I thought I knew.
36
106100
3401
但让我们先从我们认识的，我之前所以为的开始
02:01
Let's think about this middle row here.
37
109525
2081
想象中间这一排
02:03
Imagine all of you, for 20 days now, went
off and used heroin three times a day.
off and used heroin three times a day.
38
111630
3762
想象你们从今天开始的20天，每天吸食海洛因三次
02:07
Some of you look a little more
enthusiastic than others at this prospect.
enthusiastic than others at this prospect.
39
115416
3445
有些人听到这看起来比较兴奋啊
02:10
(Laughter)
40
118885
1000
（笑声）
别担心，这只是假想试验
02:11
Don't worry,
it's just a thought experiment.
it's just a thought experiment.
41
119914
2200
02:14
Imagine you did that, right?
42
122180
2039
想象你们这么做，好吗？
02:16
What would happen?
43
124243
1150
会发生什么？
这样的后果——过去的一百年我们都是如此被告知的
02:17
Now, we have a story about what would
happen that we've been told for a century.
happen that we've been told for a century.
44
125428
3793
我们认为由于海洛因包含了化学致瘾剂
02:21
We think, because there are
chemical hooks in heroin,
chemical hooks in heroin,
45
129245
2497
02:23
as you took it for a while,
46
131766
1763
当你服用了一段时间之后
02:25
your body would become
dependent on those hooks,
dependent on those hooks,
47
133553
2554
你的身体就会对它形成依赖
02:28
you'd start to physically need them,
48
136131
1764
你开始从生理上需要它
02:29
and at the end of those 20 days,
you'd all be heroin addicts. Right?
you'd all be heroin addicts. Right?
49
137919
3324
20天后，你们所有人都会海洛因上瘾。对吗？
这是我过去认为的
02:33
That's what I thought.
50
141267
1232
第一件事，让我想到
02:34
First thing that alerted me to the fact
that something's not right with this story
that something's not right with this story
51
142523
3858
我们过去一直认为的后果其实是错误的
02:38
is when it was explained to me.
52
146405
1654
如果我今天走出TED Talk剧场，被车撞了，摔坏了髋关节
02:40
If I step out of this TED Talk today
and I get hit by a car and I break my hip,
and I get hit by a car and I break my hip,
53
148083
3715
我会被送到医院，注射很多的二乙酰吗啡
02:43
I'll be taken to hospital
and I'll be given loads of diamorphine.
and I'll be given loads of diamorphine.
54
151822
3313
02:47
Diamorphine is heroin.
55
155159
1562
二乙酰吗啡就是海洛因
02:48
It's actually much better heroin
than you're going to buy on the streets,
than you're going to buy on the streets,
56
156745
3434
甚至比你在街上买的品质更好
02:52
because the stuff you buy
from a drug dealer is contaminated.
from a drug dealer is contaminated.
57
160203
2932
因为你从毒贩那买的已经被污染了
事实上，只有一小部分是海洛因
02:55
Actually, very little of it is heroin,
58
163159
1824
然而你从医生那拿的是医用纯度的
02:57
whereas the stuff you get
from the doctor is medically pure.
from the doctor is medically pure.
59
165007
2816
而且你还需要用上很长一段时间
02:59
And you'll be given it for quite
a long period of time.
a long period of time.
60
167847
2572
这间房里有许多的人
03:02
There are loads of people in this room,
61
170443
1858
你们可能没有意识到你们已经摄入了很多的海洛因
03:04
you may not realize it,
you've taken quite a lot of heroin.
you've taken quite a lot of heroin.
62
172325
2961
屏幕前面的各位也是一样，这已经发生了
03:07
And anyone who is watching this
anywhere in the world, this is happening.
anywhere in the world, this is happening.
63
175310
3553
如果我们对毒瘾的想法是对的
03:10
And if what we believe
about addiction is right --
about addiction is right --
64
178887
2353
那些人都暴露在化学致瘾剂前
03:13
those people are exposed
to all those chemical hooks --
to all those chemical hooks --
65
181264
2572
会发生什么呢？他们应该成为瘾君子
03:15
What should happen?
They should become addicts.
They should become addicts.
66
183860
2210
这项研究非常谨慎
03:18
This has been studied really carefully.
67
186094
1942
你不会发现，当你的祖母换了一个髋关节后
03:20
It doesn't happen; you will have noticed
if your grandmother had a hip replacement,
if your grandmother had a hip replacement,
68
188060
3905
就成为了瘾君子（笑声）
03:23
she didn't come out as a junkie.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
69
191989
2024
当我知道这一点之后，我觉得很奇怪
03:26
And when I learned this,
it seemed so weird to me,
it seemed so weird to me,
70
194037
3589
与我之前所听的，所知道的都相反
03:29
so contrary to everything I'd been told,
everything I thought I knew,
everything I thought I knew,
71
197650
3506
我认为这不可能，直到我遇到一个叫布鲁斯·亚历山大的人
03:33
I just thought it couldn't be right,
until I met a man called Bruce Alexander.
until I met a man called Bruce Alexander.
72
201180
3791
他是一个温哥华的心理学教授
正在进行一项不可思议的实验
03:36
He's a professor
of psychology in Vancouver
of psychology in Vancouver
73
204995
2598
这项实验可能帮助我们理解这个问题
03:39
who carried out an incredible experiment
74
207617
1915
亚历山大教授向我解释道，
03:41
I think really helps us
to understand this issue.
to understand this issue.
75
209556
2362
我们过去对毒瘾的了解
03:43
Professor Alexander explained to me,
76
211942
1738
03:45
the idea of addiction we've all
got in our heads, that story,
got in our heads, that story,
77
213704
2937
很多时候是因为在20世纪早期
做的一系列实验
03:48
comes partly from a series of experiments
78
216665
2027
实验都很简单
03:50
that were done earlier
in the 20th century.
in the 20th century.
79
218716
2086
你回家后今晚就可以做，如果你有一点虐待狂的话
03:52
They're really simple.
80
220826
1306
03:54
You can do them tonight at home
if you feel a little sadistic.
if you feel a little sadistic.
81
222156
2980
你把老鼠放到笼子里，给它两个水杯
03:57
You get a rat and you put it in a cage,
and you give it two water bottles:
and you give it two water bottles:
82
225160
3557
一杯放水，另一杯添加海洛因或可卡因
04:00
One is just water, and the other is water
laced with either heroin or cocaine.
laced with either heroin or cocaine.
83
228741
3744
如果你这么做，老鼠总是会选择有毒品的那一杯
04:04
If you do that, the rat will almost always
prefer the drug water
prefer the drug water
84
232509
3008
常常会导致自己死亡
04:07
and almost always
kill itself quite quickly.
kill itself quite quickly.
85
235541
2138
对吧，这就是我们如何上瘾的
04:09
So there you go, right?
That's how we think it works.
That's how we think it works.
86
237703
2477
在70年代，亚历山大教授开始注意这些实验
04:12
In the '70s, Professor Alexander comes
along and he looks at this experiment
along and he looks at this experiment
87
240204
3572
他发现了一些问题
04:15
and he noticed something.
88
243800
1256
他说，我们把老鼠放在了一个空的笼子里
04:17
He said ah, we're putting
the rat in an empty cage.
the rat in an empty cage.
89
245080
2479
它们除了毒品做不了别的事情
04:19
It's got nothing to do
except use these drugs.
except use these drugs.
90
247583
2233
让我试一试其它的事情
04:21
Let's try something different.
91
249840
1515
所以亚历山大教授建造了一个笼子，他称之为“老鼠公园”
04:23
So Professor Alexander built a cage
that he called "Rat Park,"
that he called "Rat Park,"
92
251379
2928
那是一个老鼠的天堂
04:26
which is basically heaven for rats.
93
254331
2516
04:28
They've got loads of cheese,
they've got loads of colored balls,
they've got loads of colored balls,
94
256871
3079
在那有很多的奶酪、彩球
还有很多的隧道
04:31
they've got loads of tunnels.
95
259974
1384
最重要的是，它们在那又很多的同伴，方便交配
04:33
Crucially, they've got loads of friends.
They can have loads of sex.
They can have loads of sex.
96
261382
3191
它们也有两个杯子，装着普通的水和有毒品的水
04:36
And they've got both the water bottles,
the normal water and the drugged water.
the normal water and the drugged water.
97
264597
4790
04:41
But here's the fascinating thing:
98
269411
2685
但有趣的事情是
04:44
In Rat Park, they don't
like the drug water.
like the drug water.
99
272120
3458
在老鼠公园，它们并不喜欢有毒品的水
04:47
They almost never use it.
100
275602
1689
它们基本上不喝
04:49
None of them ever use it compulsively.
101
277315
2553
它们中没有出现不得不喝的老鼠
04:51
None of them ever overdose.
102
279892
1401
也没有过量服用的
04:53
You go from almost 100 percent overdose
when they're isolated
when they're isolated
103
281317
3390
当他们被隔离时，百分之百的都过量服用了毒品
04:56
to zero percent overdose when they
have happy and connected lives.
have happy and connected lives.
104
284731
3226
而当它们过着开心并与外界交往的生活时，比例是零
04:59
Now, when he first saw this,
Professor Alexander thought,
Professor Alexander thought,
105
287981
3246
当亚历山大教授第一眼看到这个现象的时候想
也许这个只是老鼠的情况，与我们的不同
05:03
maybe this is just a thing about rats,
they're quite different to us.
they're quite different to us.
106
291251
3239
但也许并不是与我们想象的那样不同
05:06
Maybe not as different as we'd like,
but, you know --
but, you know --
107
294514
2477
但幸运的是，有一个人类实验
05:09
But fortunately, there was
a human experiment
a human experiment
108
297015
2111
05:11
into the exact same principle happening
at the exact same time.
at the exact same time.
109
299150
3105
基于同样的原则，在同一个时间
05:14
It was called the Vietnam War.
110
302279
1978
那就是越南战争
05:16
In Vietnam, 20 percent of all American
troops were using loads of heroin,
troops were using loads of heroin,
111
304281
4583
在越南，20%的美国军队使用了许多的海洛因
05:20
and if you look at the news
reports from the time,
reports from the time,
112
308888
2608
如果你看看当时的新闻报道
05:23
they were really worried, because
they thought, my God, we're going to have
they thought, my God, we're going to have
113
311520
3658
他们非常的担心，因为他们觉得战争结束以后
会有成百上千的瘾君子出现在美国的街头
05:27
hundreds of thousands of junkies
on the streets of the United States
on the streets of the United States
114
315202
3200
这些担心都是符合常理的
05:30
when the war ends; it made total sense.
115
318426
1916
05:32
Now, those soldiers who were using
loads of heroin were followed home.
loads of heroin were followed home.
116
320366
3286
如今这些当年服用海洛因的士兵回家
普通心理学杂志做了一个详细的研究
05:35
The Archives of General Psychiatry
did a really detailed study,
did a really detailed study,
117
323676
2954
他们发生了什么？
05:38
and what happened to them?
118
326654
1904
结果是他们没有去戒毒中心
05:40
It turns out they didn't go to rehab.
They didn't go into withdrawal.
They didn't go into withdrawal.
119
328582
3560
05:44
Ninety-five percent of them just stopped.
120
332166
3286
95%的人就停止吸毒了
05:47
Now, if you believe the story
about chemical hooks,
about chemical hooks,
121
335476
2401
如果你相信化学制瘾的解释，这根本讲不通
05:49
that makes absolutely no sense,
but Professor Alexander began to think
but Professor Alexander began to think
122
337901
3464
但是亚历山大教授开始思考
也许上瘾可以有另一种解释
05:53
there might be a different
story about addiction.
story about addiction.
123
341389
2307
他说，如果上瘾与化学制瘾物无关呢？
05:55
He said, what if addiction isn't
about your chemical hooks?
about your chemical hooks?
124
343720
2841
05:58
What if addiction is about your cage?
125
346585
2646
如果上瘾是因为你的笼子呢？
06:01
What if addiction is an adaptation
to your environment?
to your environment?
126
349255
3114
如果上瘾其实是一种对环境的适应呢？
06:04
Looking at this,
127
352393
1150
看看接下来这个案例
另一个叫作彼得·科恩的荷兰教授
06:05
there was another professor
called Peter Cohen in the Netherlands
called Peter Cohen in the Netherlands
128
353547
3098
认为我们不应该称之为上瘾
06:08
who said, maybe we shouldn't
even call it addiction.
even call it addiction.
129
356669
2447
也许我们应该称之为依赖
06:11
Maybe we should call it bonding.
130
359140
1724
06:12
Human beings have a natural
and innate need to bond,
and innate need to bond,
131
360888
2899
人类对于依赖有一种先天与自然的需要
06:15
and when we're happy and healthy,
we'll bond and connect with each other,
we'll bond and connect with each other,
132
363811
3554
当我们开心并健康的时候，我们会与其他人建立一种依赖关系
06:19
but if you can't do that,
133
367389
2630
但是如果你做不到这一点
06:22
because you're traumatized or isolated
or beaten down by life,
or beaten down by life,
134
370043
3800
由于生活的创伤和隔离
06:25
you will bond with something
that will give you some sense of relief.
that will give you some sense of relief.
135
373867
3299
你会依赖其他给你安慰的东西
06:29
Now, that might be gambling,
that might be pornography,
that might be pornography,
136
377190
2572
这可能是赌博，可能是色情
可能是可卡因，可能是大麻
06:31
that might be cocaine,
that might be cannabis,
that might be cannabis,
137
379786
2152
但你会依赖一些事物，那是我们的天性
06:33
but you will bond and connect
with something because that's our nature.
with something because that's our nature.
138
381962
3630
06:37
That's what we want as human beings.
139
385616
2716
这是作为人类，我们所需要的
06:40
And at first, I found this quite
a difficult thing to get my head around,
a difficult thing to get my head around,
140
388356
3488
开始的时候，我很难想通这件事
06:43
but one way that helped me
to think about it is,
to think about it is,
141
391868
2431
但一个让我理解这件事的方法是
06:46
I can see, I've got over by my seat
a bottle of water, right?
a bottle of water, right?
142
394323
3389
我能看见，我座位上有一杯水，对吧
06:49
I'm looking at lots of you, and lots
of you have bottles of water with you.
of you have bottles of water with you.
143
397736
3524
我看见很多人都有一杯水
忘了毒品，忘了毒品战争
06:53
Forget the drugs. Forget the drug war.
144
401284
1815
06:55
Totally legally, all of those bottles
of water could be bottles of vodka, right?
of water could be bottles of vodka, right?
145
403123
4643
假设一种合法的情况，这些杯子里装的可能是伏特加，对吧?
06:59
We could all be getting drunk --
I might after this -- (Laughter) --
I might after this -- (Laughter) --
146
407790
3686
我们都可能会喝醉，节目结束了我可能就会去（笑声）
07:03
but we're not.
147
411500
1152
但我们没有
但由于你们能负担得起很贵的TED门票
07:04
Now, because you've been able to afford
the approximately gazillion pounds
the approximately gazillion pounds
148
412676
3477
07:08
that it costs to get into a TED Talk,
I'm guessing you guys could afford
I'm guessing you guys could afford
149
416177
3381
我猜你们能够付得起
喝6个月的伏特加
07:11
to be drinking vodka
for the next six months.
for the next six months.
150
419582
2354
07:13
You wouldn't end up homeless.
151
421960
1947
你不会因此无家可归
07:15
You're not going to do that,
and the reason you're not going to do that
and the reason you're not going to do that
152
423931
3601
你不会这么做，这样的原因
不是因为有人阻止你
07:19
is not because anyone's stopping you.
153
427556
1879
07:21
It's because you've got
bonds and connections
bonds and connections
154
429459
2193
这是因为你有着依赖和联系
那些你不希望错过的东西
07:23
that you want to be present for.
155
431676
1524
你有你热爱的工作，有你喜欢的人
07:25
You've got work you love.
You've got people you love.
You've got people you love.
156
433224
2477
你有着健康的人际关系
07:27
You've got healthy relationships.
157
435725
2021
07:29
And a core part of addiction,
158
437770
2646
而上瘾的核心
07:32
I came to think, and I believe
the evidence suggests,
the evidence suggests,
159
440440
2477
我认为，也是我坚信证据显示的
是对于现实生活的无奈
07:34
is about not being able to bear
to be present in your life.
to be present in your life.
160
442941
3814
07:38
Now, this has really
significant implications.
significant implications.
161
446779
2339
这对我们有着深远的启发
07:41
The most obvious implications
are for the War on Drugs.
are for the War on Drugs.
162
449142
3134
在对毒品的斗争中最为明显
07:44
In Arizona, I went out
with a group of women
with a group of women
163
452300
3536
在亚利桑那，我与一个女性团体出游
07:47
who were made to wear t-shirts
saying, "I was a drug addict,"
saying, "I was a drug addict,"
164
455860
3834
她们被要求穿着T恤，写着“我是瘾君子”
07:51
and go out on chain gangs and dig graves
while members of the public jeer at them,
while members of the public jeer at them,
165
459718
4753
排着队，被链子拴着，挖坟墓。而人们都取笑她们
07:56
and when those women get out of prison,
they're going to have criminal records
they're going to have criminal records
166
464495
3676
当这些女性从监狱出来，她们会有犯罪记录
08:00
that mean they'll never work
in the legal economy again.
in the legal economy again.
167
468195
2620
这意味着她们再也不能从事合法经济活动
当然，被铁链拴在一起使得这个例子有点极端
08:02
Now, that's a very extreme example,
obviously, in the case of the chain gang,
obviously, in the case of the chain gang,
168
470839
3697
但事实上，几乎在世界的任何一个角落
08:06
but actually almost
everywhere in the world
everywhere in the world
169
474560
2066
我们对瘾君子多少都是这样的
08:08
we treat addicts to some degree like that.
170
476650
2000
我们惩罚他们，污辱他们，给他们犯罪记录
08:10
We punish them. We shame them.
We give them criminal records.
We give them criminal records.
171
478674
2858
我们在他们重新与外界建立联系时施加阻碍
08:13
We put barriers between them reconnecting.
172
481556
2735
08:16
There was a doctor in Canada,
Dr. Gabor Maté, an amazing man,
Dr. Gabor Maté, an amazing man,
173
484315
2979
加拿大有一个教授，贾博.马特
他告诉我，如果你想要建立一个系统让上瘾变得更糕
08:19
who said to me, if you wanted to design
a system that would make addiction worse,
a system that would make addiction worse,
174
487318
3871
你就应该建议一个这样的系统
08:23
you would design that system.
175
491213
1607
而有一个地方决定建立一个完全相反的系统
08:24
Now, there's a place that decided
to do the exact opposite,
to do the exact opposite,
176
492844
2856
08:27
and I went there to see how it worked.
177
495724
1833
我去那边看了下那是否有用
在2000年的时候，葡萄牙有着欧洲最严重的毒品问题
08:29
In the year 2000, Portugal had
one of the worst drug problems in Europe.
one of the worst drug problems in Europe.
178
497581
3395
08:33
One percent of the population was addicted
to heroin, which is kind of mind-blowing,
to heroin, which is kind of mind-blowing,
179
501000
3975
百分之一的人海洛因上瘾，令人震惊
每年他们都尝试使用更加强硬的美国的方法
08:36
and every year, they tried
the American way more and more.
the American way more and more.
180
504999
2768
他们不断惩罚瘾君子，诬蔑并羞辱他们
08:39
They punished people and stigmatized them
and shamed them more,
and shamed them more,
181
507791
2953
但是每年这个问题都变得更加严重
08:42
and every year, the problem got worse.
182
510768
1819
有一天，首相和反对党领袖坐在一起
08:44
And one day, the Prime Minister and
the leader of the opposition got together,
the leader of the opposition got together,
183
512611
3711
大概是说，我们再也不能这样继续下去了
08:48
and basically said, look, we can't go on
184
516346
1979
那样全国会有越来越多的人海洛因上瘾
08:50
with a country where we're having
ever more people becoming heroin addicts.
ever more people becoming heroin addicts.
185
518349
3529
我们来建立一个由科学家和医生组成的小组
想一个能真正解决这个问题的办法
08:53
Let's set up a panel
of scientists and doctors
of scientists and doctors
186
521902
2159
08:56
to figure out what would
genuinely solve the problem.
genuinely solve the problem.
187
524085
2482
他们建立了一个由约翰·华谷劳博士领导的小组
08:58
And they set up a panel led by
an amazing man called Dr. João Goulão,
an amazing man called Dr. João Goulão,
188
526591
3249
审视所有的新证据
09:01
to look at all this new evidence,
189
529864
1626
最后他们说
09:03
and they came back and they said,
190
531514
1572
“将毒品合法化，不论是大麻还是毒品，但是
09:05
"Decriminalize all drugs
from cannabis to crack, but" --
from cannabis to crack, but" --
191
533110
4296
09:09
and this is the crucial next step --
192
537430
2270
最重要的一点
09:11
"take all the money we used to spend
on cutting addicts off,
on cutting addicts off,
193
539724
3621
撤回我们过去用来对付毒瘾的费用
撤回我们用来隔离瘾君子的费用
09:15
on disconnecting them,
194
543369
1397
09:16
and spend it instead
on reconnecting them with society."
on reconnecting them with society."
195
544790
3640
用这些钱来帮助他们回到社会”
09:20
And that's not really what we think of
as drug treatment
as drug treatment
196
548454
4572
这并不是我们认为的解决毒瘾的方法
09:25
in the United States and Britain.
197
553050
1858
不论是在美国还是英国
09:26
So they do do residential rehab,
198
554932
1581
他们也确实在家里做康复治疗
09:28
they do psychological therapy,
that does have some value.
that does have some value.
199
556537
2808
他们也做心理指导，这有些帮助
09:31
But the biggest thing they did
was the complete opposite of what we do:
was the complete opposite of what we do:
200
559369
3383
但最重要的事情与我们过去做的完全不同
就是为瘾君子创立大量就业机会
09:34
a massive program
of job creation for addicts,
of job creation for addicts,
201
562776
2494
09:37
and microloans for addicts
to set up small businesses.
to set up small businesses.
202
565294
2596
提供微型贷款以帮助他们做小本生意
09:39
So say you used to be a mechanic.
203
567914
1641
假设你过去曾是一个机械工人
09:41
When you're ready, they'll go
to a garage, and they'll say,
to a garage, and they'll say,
204
569579
2797
当你准备好了后，他们会去你工作的车库，说
如果你们雇佣这个人满一年，我们会付他一半的薪水
09:44
if you employ this guy for a year,
we'll pay half his wages.
we'll pay half his wages.
205
572400
2887
这个方法是为了确保葡萄牙的每一个瘾君子
09:47
The goal was to make sure
that every addict in Portugal
that every addict in Portugal
206
575311
2733
在早上起床之后都有一些事情可做
09:50
had something to get out
of bed for in the morning.
of bed for in the morning.
207
578068
2381
当我在葡萄牙去探访那些瘾君子时
09:52
And when I went and met the addicts
in Portugal,
in Portugal,
208
580473
3171
他们说的是，由于他们重新找到了目标，
09:55
what they said is,
as they rediscovered purpose,
as they rediscovered purpose,
209
583668
2254
他们重新找到了与外界社会的依赖和关系
09:57
they rediscovered bonds
and relationships with the wider society.
and relationships with the wider society.
210
585946
3105
今年是这个实验开始的第15个年头
10:01
It'll be 15 years this year
since that experiment began,
since that experiment began,
211
589075
2620
结果是
10:03
and the results are in:
212
591719
1643
10:05
injecting drug use is down in Portugal,
213
593386
1858
注射毒品在葡萄牙的使用量降低了，
根据英国犯罪学杂志的统计
10:07
according to the British
Journal of Criminology,
Journal of Criminology,
214
595268
2591
10:09
by 50 percent, five-zero percent.
215
597883
2563
50%，也就是一半
10:12
Overdose is massively down,
HIV is massively down among addicts.
HIV is massively down among addicts.
216
600470
3676
过量服用毒品的案例大量减少，毒品导致的艾滋病毒传播减少
10:16
Addiction in every study
is significantly down.
is significantly down.
217
604170
2351
在每个研究中上瘾指标都大量下降
10:18
One of the ways you know it's worked
so well is that almost nobody in Portugal
so well is that almost nobody in Portugal
218
606545
3839
一个比较令人信服的说明这很有用的事实就是
在葡萄要几乎没有人想要回到原来的系统里去
10:22
wants to go back to the old system.
219
610408
1681
10:24
Now, that's the political implications.
220
612113
1864
这是一个政治上的影响
10:26
I actually think there's a layer
of implications
of implications
221
614001
2999
事实上，我开始思考又一个层面的影响
10:29
to all this research below that.
222
617024
1636
所有的研究都会受之影响
10:30
We live in a culture where people
feel really increasingly vulnerable
feel really increasingly vulnerable
223
618684
3262
我们生活在这样一种文化之中，人们对各种上瘾源
10:33
to all sorts of addictions,
whether it's to their smartphones
whether it's to their smartphones
224
621970
2956
越来越脆弱，不管是智能手机
还是购物或者饮食
10:36
or to shopping or to eating.
225
624950
1334
10:38
Before these talks began --
you guys know this --
you guys know this --
226
626308
2307
在这个演讲开始之前，你们知道
我们被告知关掉智能手机
10:40
we were told we weren't allowed
to have our smartphones on,
to have our smartphones on,
227
628639
2840
我得说，你们中的许多人看看起来很失落
10:43
and I have to say, a lot of you
looked an awful lot like
looked an awful lot like
228
631503
2621
就好像瘾君子被告知在接下来的几个小时
10:46
addicts who were told their dealer
was going to be unavailable
was going to be unavailable
229
634148
2985
都不能见到毒贩了一样（笑声）
10:49
for the next couple of hours. (Laughter)
230
637157
1905
许多的人觉得，听起来可能有点怪
10:51
A lot of us feel like that,
and it might sound weird to say,
and it might sound weird to say,
231
639086
2847
我一直在谈与外界的失联是导致上瘾的主要因素
10:53
I've been talking about how disconnection
is a major driver of addiction
is a major driver of addiction
232
641957
3393
非常奇怪的是这种现象正在增长
10:57
and weird to say it's growing,
233
645374
1429
因为我们都以为自己正处于联系最紧密的社会
10:58
because you think we're the most connected
society that's ever been, surely.
society that's ever been, surely.
234
646827
3572
但我逐渐开始思考，我们拥有的这种联系
11:02
But I increasingly began to think
that the connections we have
that the connections we have
235
650423
2933
或我们以为的联系，就像是对人际关系的一种拙劣的模仿
11:05
or think we have, are like a kind
of parody of human connection.
of parody of human connection.
236
653480
3000
如果你在生活中遭遇了危机，你总会注意到一些事情
11:08
If you have a crisis in your life,
you'll notice something.
you'll notice something.
237
656504
2837
你推特上的粉丝不会坐在你身边
11:11
It won't be your Twitter followers
who come to sit with you.
who come to sit with you.
238
659365
2910
你脸书上的伙伴不会帮你走出困境
11:14
It won't be your Facebook friends
who help you turn it round.
who help you turn it round.
239
662299
2858
只有你血肉相连的朋友，那些与你关系很深，细致入微
11:17
It'll be your flesh and blood friends
who you have deep and nuanced
who you have deep and nuanced
240
665181
3143
那些与你有着藕断丝连，面对面关系的朋友才会来帮你
11:20
and textured, face-to-face
relationships with,
relationships with,
241
668348
2242
11:22
and there's a study I learned about from
Bill McKibben, the environmental writer,
Bill McKibben, the environmental writer,
242
670614
4535
环境作家比尔·麦克有一个研究让我受益匪浅
11:27
that I think tells us a lot about this.
243
675173
2183
它告诉我们很多相关的道理
11:29
He looked at the number of close friends
the average American believes
the average American believes
244
677380
3374
他调查了美国人平均拥有的在危急时可以
11:32
they can call on in a crisis.
245
680778
1927
电话求助的亲密朋友的数量
11:34
That number has been declining
steadily since the 1950s.
steadily since the 1950s.
246
682729
2994
这个数量自从1950年就开始下降
11:37
The amount of floor space
an individual has in their home
an individual has in their home
247
685747
2850
而每个人在家里的空间
11:40
has been steadily increasing,
248
688621
2043
却一直稳定地增长
11:42
and I think that's like a metaphor
249
690688
1880
我认为这更像一个隐喻
11:44
for the choice we've made as a culture.
250
692592
1858
就是做选择的文化
我们拿朋友交换房屋面积，拿联系交换物品
11:46
We've traded floorspace for friends,
we've traded stuff for connections,
we've traded stuff for connections,
251
694474
4851
11:51
and the result is we are one of the
loneliest societies there has ever been.
loneliest societies there has ever been.
252
699349
3597
结果就是我们成为了最孤独的社会中人
11:54
And Bruce Alexander, the guy who did
the Rat Park experiment, says,
the Rat Park experiment, says,
253
702970
3167
那个做了老鼠公园实验的布鲁斯·亚历山大说
11:58
we talk all the time in addiction
about individual recovery,
about individual recovery,
254
706161
3547
我们一直在讨论个人层面的上瘾恢复
12:01
and it's right to talk about that,
255
709732
1903
这是正确的
12:03
but we need to talk much more
about social recovery.
about social recovery.
256
711659
2531
但我们更应该讨论社会层面上的恢复
12:06
Something's gone wrong with us,
not just with individuals but as a group,
not just with individuals but as a group,
257
714214
3629
我们出问题了，不仅仅是个人，更是整个集体
12:09
and we've created a society where,
for a lot of us,
for a lot of us,
258
717867
2409
我们创造了一个社会，对于许多人来说
12:12
life looks a whole lot more
like that isolated cage
like that isolated cage
259
720300
2461
生活就像一个孤立的笼子
12:14
and a whole lot less like Rat Park.
260
722785
2047
远远不如老鼠公园
12:16
If I'm honest, this isn't
why I went into it.
why I went into it.
261
724856
3032
诚实地说，这并不是我深入调查这些的原因
12:19
I didn't go in to the discover
the political stuff, the social stuff.
the political stuff, the social stuff.
262
727912
3306
我当时并未想去探索这些政治和社会相关的问题
12:23
I wanted to know how to help
the people I love.
the people I love.
263
731242
2339
我只想知道如何去帮助那些我爱的人
12:25
And when I came back from this
long journey and I'd learned all this,
long journey and I'd learned all this,
264
733605
3239
而当我结束了这段漫长的旅程，我却学到了这么多
我想着自己生命中的那些上瘾者
12:28
I looked at the addicts in my life,
265
736868
2708
12:31
and if you're really candid,
it's hard loving an addict,
it's hard loving an addict,
266
739600
4506
如果你真的够坦率，会承认爱一个上瘾者很困难
12:36
and there's going to be lots of people
who know in this room.
who know in this room.
267
744130
2858
这里会有很多人都知道这件事情
你常常生气
12:39
You are angry a lot of the time,
268
747012
2224
12:41
and I think one of the reasons
why this debate is so charged
why this debate is so charged
269
749260
4001
我认为，这个讨论如此热烈的原因之一在于
12:45
is because it runs through the heart
of each of us, right?
of each of us, right?
270
753285
2800
因为我们每一个人都在心里思考过这个问题
12:48
Everyone has a bit of them
that looks at an addict and thinks,
that looks at an addict and thinks,
271
756109
2947
每一个都多少会看着上瘾的人想
12:51
I wish someone would just stop you.
272
759080
1751
我希望有人可以阻止你
我们被告知对待生活中上瘾者的办法，
12:52
And the kind of scripts we're told for how
to deal with the addicts in our lives
to deal with the addicts in our lives
273
760855
3762
一种非常典型的办法其实来自，我认为
12:56
is typified by, I think,
274
764641
1172
真人秀“介入”，不知你们看过没有
12:57
the reality show "Intervention,"
if you guys have ever seen it.
if you guys have ever seen it.
275
765837
2953
我认为生活中任何事都能在真人秀中反映出来
13:00
I think everything in our lives
is defined by reality TV,
is defined by reality TV,
276
768814
2674
不过这是另一个Ted演讲的内容了
13:03
but that's another TED Talk.
277
771512
1445
如果你曾经看过“介入”节目
13:04
If you've ever seen
the show "Intervention,"
the show "Intervention,"
278
772981
2188
一个非常简单的假定：
13:07
it's a pretty simple premise.
279
775193
1456
找一个上瘾者，以及他们生活中的所有人，聚到一起
13:08
Get an addict, all the people
in their life, gather them together,
in their life, gather them together,
280
776673
3096
就他上瘾的事情对他说，如果你不戒掉
13:11
confront them with what they're doing,
and they say, if you don't shape up,
and they say, if you don't shape up,
281
779793
3632
我们就疏离你
13:15
we're going to cut you off.
282
783449
1338
他们所做的就是拿其与上瘾者的联系
13:16
So what they do is they take
the connection to the addict,
the connection to the addict,
283
784811
2715
来威胁他；结果取决于
13:19
and they threaten it,
they make it contingent
they make it contingent
284
787550
2096
上瘾者会不会按他们想的去做
13:21
on the addict behaving the way they want.
285
789670
2378
13:24
And I began to think, I began to see
why that approach doesn't work,
why that approach doesn't work,
286
792072
3727
我开始思考，意识到为什么这种方法不起作用
13:27
and I began to think that's almost like
the importing of the logic of the Drug War
the importing of the logic of the Drug War
287
795823
4550
我想这就好像是引入了毒品战争中的逻辑
13:32
into our private lives.
288
800397
1857
到我们的私人生活中来
13:34
So I was thinking,
how could I be Portuguese?
how could I be Portuguese?
289
802278
3668
我当时想，我如何才能像葡萄牙人那么做？
13:37
And what I've tried to do now,
and I can't tell you I do it consistently
and I can't tell you I do it consistently
290
805970
3505
如今我已尝试过的，也不能说很好地坚持了
13:41
and I can't tell you it's easy,
291
809499
1949
因为这一点也不简单
13:43
is to say to the addicts in my life
292
811472
2484
是对那些在我生活中的瘾君子说
13:45
that I want to deepen
the connection with them,
the connection with them,
293
813980
2226
我想要加深与他们的联系
13:48
to say to them, I love you
whether you're using or you're not.
whether you're using or you're not.
294
816230
3670
告诉他们，我爱你，不管你是否还在服毒
13:51
I love you, whatever state you're in,
295
819924
2832
我爱你，不管你在什么阶段
13:54
and if you need me,
I'll come and sit with you
I'll come and sit with you
296
822780
2391
如果你需要的话，我可以随时来到你身边
13:57
because I love you and I don't
want you to be alone
want you to be alone
297
825195
2600
因为我爱你，不希望你独自一人
13:59
or to feel alone.
298
827819
1996
或是感到孤单
14:01
And I think the core of that message --
299
829839
2042
我认为这条讯息
14:03
you're not alone, we love you --
300
831905
2669
“你并不是孤身一人，我们爱你”的核心
14:06
has to be at every level
of how we respond to addicts,
of how we respond to addicts,
301
834598
3065
是它必须体现在我们对待瘾君子的每一个层面上
14:09
socially, politically and individually.
302
837687
2623
社会层面、政治层面及个人层面
14:12
For 100 years now, we've been singing
war songs about addicts.
war songs about addicts.
303
840334
4248
我们向瘾君子们宣战了100年
14:16
I think all along we should have been
singing love songs to them,
singing love songs to them,
304
844606
3900
我认为从一开始我们就应该对瘾君子展示关怀
14:20
because the opposite of addiction
is not sobriety.
is not sobriety.
305
848530
4248
因为上瘾的对立面，不是清醒
14:24
The opposite of addiction is connection.
306
852802
3831
而是联系
14:28
Thank you.
307
856657
1949
谢谢
14:30
(Applause)
308
858630
7000
（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Johann Hari - JournalistJohann Hari spent three years researching the war on drugs; along the way, he discovered that addiction is not what we think it is.
Why you should listen
British journalist Johann Hari is the author of the New York Times best-selling book Chasing The Scream, from which his talk on addiction was adapted and for which he spent three years researching the war on drugs and questioning the ways in which we treat addiction.
He has written for many of the world’s leading newspapers and magazines, including The New York Times, Le Monde, The Guardian, New Republic, The Nation, Slate.com, and The Sydney Morning Herald. He was a columnist for the British newspaper The Independent for nine years.
Hari was twice named National Newspaper Journalist of the Year by Amnesty International, was named Gay Journalist of the Year at the Stonewall Awards -- and won the Martha Gellhorn Prize for political writing.
Johann Hari | Speaker | TED.com