TEDSalon NY2013
Esther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
Esther Perel: Tajna žudnje u dugovječnim odnosima
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U dugovječnim odnosima često očekujemo da nam naša voljena osoba bude i najbolji prijatelj i erotični partner. Ali, kao što Esther Perel tvrdi, dobar i predan seks zasniva se na dvije oprečne potrebe: potrebi za sigurnošću i potrebi za iznenađenjem. Dakle, kako održati želju? Duhovito i elokventno, Perel nas uvodi u čaroliju erotske inteligencije.
Esther Perel - Relationship therapist
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Psychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:17
So, why does good sex so often fade,
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Dakle, zašto dobar seks tako često blijedi,
00:20
even for couples who continue to love each other as much as ever?
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čak i kod parova koji se i danas vole kao nekad?
00:25
And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex,
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I zašto fina intimnost ne jamči dobar seks,
00:28
contrary to popular belief?
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suprotno popularnom uvjerenju?
00:31
Or, the next question would be,
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Ili, sljedeće bi pitanje bilo,
00:33
can we want what we already have?
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možemo li žudjeti za nečime što već imamo?
00:35
That's the million-dollar question, right?
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To je pitanje za milijun dolara, zar ne?
00:38
And why is the forbidden so erotic?
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I zašto je zabranjeno toliko erotično?
00:40
What is it about transgression that makes desire so potent?
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Zašto prijestup potiče žudnju?
00:44
And why does sex make babies,
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I zašto seks rezultira djecom,
00:46
and babies spell erotic disaster in couples?
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a djeca su katastrofa za žudnju u braku?
00:50
It's kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it?
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To je svojevrstan fatalni udarac na erotičnost, zar ne?
00:52
And when you love, how does it feel?
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Kad volite, kako se osjećate ?
00:55
And when you desire, how is it different?
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A kad osjećate žudnju, po čemu je to drugačije?
00:58
These are some of the questions
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To su neka od najvažnijih pitanja
01:00
that are at the center of my exploration
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mojih istraživanja
01:02
on the nature of erotic desire
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o prirodi erotske žudnje
01:05
and its concomitant dilemmas in modern love.
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i dilemama koje ju prate u suvremenom ljubavnom životu.
01:09
So I travel the globe,
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Putujem svijetom,
01:11
and what I'm noticing is that
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i primjećujem da,
01:13
everywhere where romanticism has entered,
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gdje god se pojavi romantika,
01:16
there seems to be a crisis of desire.
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čini se da je ugrožena žudnja.
01:19
A crisis of desire, as in owning the wanting --
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Kriza žudnje, kao osobnog osjećaja želje --
01:24
desire as an expression of our individuality,
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žudnje kao izričaja naše osobnosti,
01:27
of our free choice, of our preferences, of our identity --
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naše slobode izbora, našeg identiteta,
01:30
desire that has become a central concept
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žudnje koja je postala središnjim pojmom
01:34
as part of modern love and individualistic societies.
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suvremenog ljubavnog života i individualističkog društva.
01:37
You know, this is the first time in the history of humankind
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Znate, ovo je prvi put u ljudskoj povijesti
01:40
where we are trying to experience sexuality in the long term,
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da želimo iskusiti seksualnost kroz dugo razdoblje
01:46
not because we want 14 children,
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ne zato što želimo 14-ero djece,
01:50
for which we need to have even more because many of them won't make it,
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koje trebamo jer mnogi od njih neće preživjeti,
01:54
and not because it is exclusively a woman's marital duty.
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i ne zato što je to ženina bračna obveza,.
01:59
This is the first time that we want sex over time
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Ovo je prvi put da želimo seks na duge staze
02:03
about pleasure and connection that is rooted in desire.
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zbog užitka i povezanosti koji su ukorijenjeni u žudnji.
02:08
So what sustains desire, and why is it so difficult?
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Što održava žudnju živom i zašto je to tako teško?
02:11
And at the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship,
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Mislim da je bit održavanja žudnje u predanoj vezi,
02:16
I think is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs.
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u pomirenju dviju temeljnih ljudskih potreba.
02:22
On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability,
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S jedne strane želimo sigurnost, predvidljivost,
02:27
for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence --
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sigurnost, zavisnost, pouzdanost, trajnost ---
02:35
all these anchoring, grounding experiences of our lives
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sva ona temeljna iskustva našeg života
02:38
that we call home.
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koja zovemo domom.
02:39
But we also have an equally strong need -- men and women --
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Ali imamo jednako jaku potrebu -- i muškarci i žene --
02:44
for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger,
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za avanturom, novinama, rizikom,
tajanstvenošću, opasnošću,
tajanstvenošću, opasnošću,
02:49
for the unknown, for the unexpected, surprise --
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za nepoznatim, neočekivanim, za iznenađenjem --
02:53
you get the gist -- for journey, for travel.
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shvaćate -- za putovanjem.
02:57
So reconciling our need for security
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Dakle, pokušaj da svoju potrebu za sigurnošću
02:59
and our need for adventure into one relationship,
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objedinimo s potrebom za avanturom
u jednoj romantičnoj vezi,
u jednoj romantičnoj vezi,
03:02
or what we today like to call a passionate marriage,
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odnosno ono što danas nazivamo strasnim brakom,
03:05
used to be a contradiction in terms.
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nekad su bili suprotni pojmovi.
03:07
Marriage was an economic institution
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Brak je bio ekonomska institucija
03:10
in which you were given a partnership for life
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koja vam je dala doživotno partnerstvo
03:14
in terms of children and social status
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u obliku djece, društvenog položaja,
03:16
and succession and companionship.
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prava nasljeđivanja i zajedništva.
03:19
But now we want our partner to still give us all these things,
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Danas od svog partnera još uvijek želimo sve to,
03:23
but in addition I want you to be my best friend
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ali još želim da mi budeš i najbolji prijatelj
03:26
and my trusted confidant and my passionate lover to boot,
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i osoba kojoj se mogu povjeriti i strastveni ljubavnik,
03:29
and we live twice as long.
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a još živimo i dvostruko duže.
03:30
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:33
So we come to one person, and we basically are asking them
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Od jedne osobe, zapravo, tražimo
03:37
to give us what once an entire village used to provide:
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ono što nam je nekad davalo cijelo selo:
03:41
Give me belonging, give me identity, give me continuity,
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daj mi osjećaj pripadnosti, identitet, trajnost,
03:45
but give me transcendence and mystery and awe all in one.
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ali daj mi i transcedenciju i zagonetnost
i zadivljenost, sve u jednom.
i zadivljenost, sve u jednom.
03:49
Give me comfort, give me edge.
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Utješi me, uzbudi me.
03:51
Give me novelty, give me familiarity.
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Daj mi nešto novo, daj mi nešto poznato.
03:52
Give me predictability, give me surprise.
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Budi predvidljiv, iznenadi me.
03:55
And we think it's a given, and toys and lingerie are going to save us with that.
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I mislimo da je to naprosto tako, da nam u tome
mogu pomoći igračke i ženstveno rublje.
mogu pomoći igračke i ženstveno rublje.
03:59
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
04:04
So now we get to the existential reality of the story, right?
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Sad dolazimo do sušte stvarnosti ove priče, zar ne?
04:08
Because I think, in some way -- and I'll come back to that --
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Ja vjerujem da je na neki način -- a vratit ću se još na to --
04:14
but the crisis of desire is often a crisis of the imagination.
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kriza žudnje često kriza mašte.
04:18
So why does good sex so often fade?
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No, dakle, zašto dobar seks često blijedi?
04:21
What is the relationship between love and desire?
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Kakav je odnos između ljubavi i žudnje?
04:24
How do they relate, and how do they conflict?
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Kako su povezane, a kako se razlikuju?
04:27
Because therein lies the mystery of eroticism.
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Jer u tome je tajna erotičnosti.
04:30
So if there is a verb, for me, that comes with love, it's "to have."
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Ako postoji glagol koji ide uz "ljubav",
za mene je to "imati".
za mene je to "imati".
04:34
And if there is a verb that comes with desire, it is "to want."
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A ako postoji glagol uz "žudnju", onda je to "željeti".
04:39
In love, we want to have, we want to know the beloved.
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U ljubavi, želimo imati, želimo poznavati ljubljenog.
04:42
We want to minimize the distance. We want to contract that gap.
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Želimo smanjiti međusobnu udaljenost, stisnuti razmak.
04:47
We want to neutralize the tensions. We want closeness.
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Želimo neutralizirati napetosti. Želimo bliskost.
04:51
But in desire, we tend to not really want to go back to the places we've already gone.
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Ali u žudnji nastojimo da baš ne idemo
opet na ista mjesta na kojima smo već bili.
opet na ista mjesta na kojima smo već bili.
04:56
Forgone conclusion does not keep our interest.
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Poznati zaključci nisu nam više zanimljivi,
ne zaokupljaju našu pažnju.
ne zaokupljaju našu pažnju.
05:00
In desire, we want an Other, somebody on the other side that we can go visit,
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U žudnji želimo Drugog, nekoga
na drugoj strani koga možemo posjetiti,
na drugoj strani koga možemo posjetiti,
05:05
that we can go spend some time with,
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s kime možemo provesti neko vrijeme,
05:07
that we can go see what goes on in their red light district.
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da vidimo što se događa u njihovoj "crvenoj četvrti".
05:11
In desire, we want a bridge to cross.
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U žudnji, tražimo most koji ćemo prijeći.
05:15
Or in other words, I sometimes say, fire needs air.
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Ili, drugim riječima, ja ponekad kažem: vatri treba zrak.
05:18
Desire needs space.
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Žudnja treba prostor.
05:20
And when it's said like that, it's often quite abstract.
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Kad se to tako kaže, često to zvuči apstraktno.
05:24
But then I took a question with me.
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Zato sam na put krenula s pitanjem .
05:25
And I've gone to more than 20 countries in the last few years
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U posljednjih nekoliko godina bila sam u više od 20 zemalja
05:28
with "Mating in Captivity," and I asked people,
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s knjigom "Parenje u zarobljeništvu" i pitala sam ljude:
05:31
when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner?
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U kojim situacijama osjećate
da vas vaš partner najviše privlači?
da vas vaš partner najviše privlači?
05:34
Not attracted sexually, per se, but most drawn.
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Ne mora to nužno biti seksualno, ali da vas jako privlači.
05:37
And across culture, across religion, and across gender --
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I bez obzira na kulturu, religiju, spol --
05:41
except for one -- there are a few answers that just keep coming back.
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osim u jednom slučaju -- nekoliko se
odgovora neprekidno ponavlja.
odgovora neprekidno ponavlja.
05:46
So the first group is: I am most drawn to my partner
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Prva je grupa: Partnerica me najviše privlači
05:51
when she is away, when we are apart, when we reunite.
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kad je na putu, kad smo odvojeni,
kad se ponovno sretnemo.
kad se ponovno sretnemo.
05:57
Basically, when I get back in touch
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Zapravo, kad ponovno oživim
06:01
with my ability to imagine myself with my partner,
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svoju sposobnost da se zamislim s partnerom,
06:05
when my imagination comes back in the picture,
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kad moja mašta proradi,
06:07
and when I can root it in absence and in longing,
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i proizlazi iz odsutnosti i čežnje,
06:12
which is a major component of desire.
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koja je glavni sastojak žudnje.
06:15
But then the second group is even more interesting:
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No, druga je grupa još zanimljivija:
06:18
I am most drawn to my partner
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Moj me partner najviše privlači
06:20
when I see him in the studio, when she is onstage,
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kad ga vidim u studiju, na pozornici,
06:24
when he is in his element, when she's doing something she's passionate about,
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kad je u svom elementu, kad radi nešto sa strašću,
06:28
when I see him at a party and other people are really drawn to him,
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kad ga vidim na zabavi kako plijeni pažnju drugih ljudi,
06:32
when I see her hold court.
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kad je gledam kako vlada situacijom.
06:34
Basically, when I look at my partner radiant and confident,
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Promatranje partnera kako zrači samopouzdanjem
06:38
probably the biggest turn-on across the board.
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vjerojatno pruža najveće od svih uzbuđenja.
06:42
Radiant, as in self-sustaining.
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Zrači, u smislu samodostatnosti.
06:44
I look at this person -- by the way, in desire
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Gledam tu osobu -- inače, u žudnji
06:47
people rarely talk about it, when we are blended into one,
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ljudi rijetko o tome govore, kad se stopimo u jedno,
06:50
five centimeters from each other. I don't know in inches how much that is.
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pet centimetara jedno od drugoga.
Ne znam koliko je to u inčima.
Ne znam koliko je to u inčima.
06:53
But it's also not when the other person is that far apart
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Ali to nije ni onda kad je ta osoba toliko daleko
06:57
that you no longer see them.
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da je više ne vidite.
06:58
It's when I'm looking at my partner from a comfortable distance,
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To se događa kad svog partnera
gledam s ugodne udaljenosti,
gledam s ugodne udaljenosti,
07:02
where this person that is already so familiar, so known,
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kad je ta osoba koja mi je već toliko poznata,
07:07
is momentarily once again somewhat mysterious, somewhat elusive.
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odjednom u trenutku ponovno
tajnovita, pomalo nedohvatljiva.
tajnovita, pomalo nedohvatljiva.
07:12
And in this space between me and the other lies the erotic élan,
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I upravo u tom prostoru između mene i drugog
nalazi se erotski elan,
nalazi se erotski elan,
07:16
lies that movement toward the other.
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nalazi se kretnja prema onom drugom.
07:19
Because sometimes, as Proust says,
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Jer ponekad, kako to kaže Proust,
07:21
mystery is not about traveling to new places,
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čarolija nije u putovanju u nove krajeve,
07:24
but it's about looking with new eyes.
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nego u novom pogledu na poznate stvari.
07:26
And so, when I see my partner on his own or her own,
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I zato, kad vidim svog partnera samostalnog,
07:30
doing something in which they are enveloped,
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kako radi nešto čime je potpuno obuzet ili obuzeta ,
07:32
I look at this person and I momentarily get a shift in perception,
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gledam tu osobu i u trenutku
dobivam pogled iz druge perspektive
dobivam pogled iz druge perspektive
07:37
and I stay open to the mysteries that are living right next to me.
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i otvaram se tajnama koje žive tu, pored mene.
07:42
And then, more importantly, in this description about the other
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I onda, još važnije, u tom opisivanju drugoga
07:47
or myself -- it's the same -- what is most interesting
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ili sebe -- jer to je isto -- najzanimljivije je to
07:51
is that there is no neediness in desire.
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da u žudnji nema potrebe.
07:53
Nobody needs anybody.
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Nitko nikoga ne treba.
07:55
There is no caretaking in desire.
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Nema brižnosti u žudnji.
07:58
Caretaking is mightily loving. It's a powerful anti-aphrodisiac.
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Brižnost je moćna ljubav. Ona je snažan anti-afrodizijak.
08:03
I have yet to see somebody who is so turned on
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Još nisam srela nekog tko je uzbuđen
08:05
by somebody who needs them.
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nekime tko ga treba.
08:07
Wanting them is one thing. Needing them is a shutdown,
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Željeti ga je jedna stvar. Ali potreba je hladan tuš,
08:10
and women have known that forever,
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a to je ženama oduvijek poznato,
08:12
because anything that will bring up parenthood
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jer svako spominjanje roditeljstva
08:15
will usually decrease the erotic charge.
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u pravilu će smanjiti erotski naboj.
08:18
For good reasons, right?
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S razlogom, zar ne?
08:20
And then the third group of answers usually would be
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Treća skupina odgovora glasi:
08:24
when I'm surprised, when we laugh together,
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Kad sam iznenađena, kad se smijemo zajedno,
08:28
as somebody said to me in the office today,
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kao što mi je netko u uredu danas rekao,
08:30
when he's in his tux, so I said, you know,
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kad je u smokingu, na što sam odgovorila:
08:32
it's either the tux or the cowboy boots.
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ili je smoking ili su kaubojske čizme.
08:35
But basically it's when there is novelty.
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No u osnovi, to je onda kad postoji nešto novo.
08:39
But novelty isn't about new positions. It isn't a repertoire of techniques.
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Ali ne radi se o novim seksualnim pozama.
Ne radi se o repertoaru tehnika.
Ne radi se o repertoaru tehnika.
08:43
Novelty is, what parts of you do you bring out?
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Novost je: Koji dio sebe prikazujete?
08:47
What parts of you are just being seen?
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Koji se dio vas upravo sad može vidjeti?
08:50
Because in some way one could say
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Jer, na neki se način može reći:
08:52
sex isn't something you do, eh?
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Seks nije nešto što radiš, zar ne?
08:54
Sex is a place you go. It's a space you enter
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Seks je mjesto na koje ideš. To je prostor u koji ulaziš
08:57
inside yourself and with another, or others.
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u sebi i s drugim, ili drugima.
09:00
So where do you go in sex?
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Kamo vi idete u seksu?
09:03
What parts of you do you connect to?
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S kojim se dijelovima sebe povezujete?
09:05
What do you seek to express there?
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Što ondje želite izraziti?
09:07
Is it a place for transcendence and spiritual union?
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Je li to mjesto za transcedenciju i duhovno ujedinjenje?
09:10
Is it a place for naughtiness and is it a place to be safely aggressive?
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Je li to mjesto za nestašnost i mjesto
gdje na siguran način možete biti agresivni?
gdje na siguran način možete biti agresivni?
09:15
Is it a place where you can finally surrender
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Je li to mjesto na kojem se napokon možeš predati
09:17
and not have to take responsibility for everything?
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bez preuzimanja odgovornosti za sve?
09:20
Is it a place where you can express your infantile wishes?
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Je li to mjesto gdje možeš izraziti svoje djetinjaste želje?
09:23
What comes out there? It's a language.
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Što se ondje ispoljava? To je jezik.
09:25
It isn't just a behavior.
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To nije samo ponašanje.
09:28
And it's the poetic of that language that I'm interested in,
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Mene zanima poetičnost tog jezika.
09:31
which is why I began to explore this concept of erotic intelligence.
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Zbog toga sam počela istraživati
koncept erotske inteligencije.
koncept erotske inteligencije.
09:35
You know, animals have sex.
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Znate, životinje imaju seks.
09:37
It's the pivot, it's biology, it's the natural instinct.
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Oko toga se sve vrti, to je biologija, to je prirodni instinkt.
09:40
We are the only ones who have an erotic life,
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Mi smo jedini koji imamo erotski život,
09:43
which means that it's sexuality transformed by the human imagination.
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To znači da ljudska mašta preobražava seksualnost.
09:49
We are the only ones who can make love for hours,
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Mi smo jedini koji satima možemo voditi ljubav,
09:53
have a blissful time, multiple orgasms,
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osjećati se blaženo, doživljavati višestruke orgazme,
09:56
and touch nobody, just because we can imagine it.
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a da nikog ne dodirnemo, jer sve to samo zamišljamo.
10:00
We can hint at it. We don't even have to do it.
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Dovoljno je naslućivati. Ne moramo to uopće raditi.
10:03
We can experience that powerful thing called anticipation,
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Možemo iskusiti onu snažnu stvar koja se zove iščekivanje,
10:06
which is a mortar to desire,
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ona je građevni element žudnje,
10:09
the ability to imagine it, as if it's happening,
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sposobnost da zamislimo nešto, kao da se stvarno događa,
10:12
to experience it as if it's happening, while nothing is happening
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da doživimo nešto kao da se
stvarno događa, dok se u isto vrijeme
stvarno događa, dok se u isto vrijeme
10:16
and everything is happening at the same time.
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i ništa ne događa, i sve se događa.
10:19
So when I began to think about eroticism,
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Zato kad sam počela razmišljati o eroticizmu,
10:21
I began to think about the poetics of sex,
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počela sam razmišljati o poetičnosti seksa,
10:25
and if I look at it as an intelligence,
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pa ako na to gledam kao na inteligenciju,
10:27
then it's something that you cultivate.
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onda je to nešto što razvijate.
10:29
What are the ingredients? Imagination, playfulness,
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Koji su sastojci? Mašta, zaigranost,
10:34
novelty, curiosity, mystery.
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novine, znatiželja, tajanstvenost,
10:37
But the central agent is really that piece called the imagination.
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No, središnji je dio onaj koji nazivamo maštovitost.
10:42
But more importantly, for me to begin to understand
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No, još važnije, da bih počela uviđati
10:45
who are the couples who have an erotic spark,
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koji su to parovi koji imaju iskru erotike,
10:48
what sustains desire, I had to go back
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što to održava žudnju, morala sam se vratiti
10:50
to the original definition of eroticism,
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izvornoj definiciji eroticizma,
10:53
the mystical definition, and I went through it
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mističnoj definiciji, i to sam napravila
10:56
through a bifurcation by looking actually at trauma,
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kroz razdvajanje, kroz promatranje traume,
10:59
which is the other side, and I looked at it
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koja je njeno naličje. Promatrala sam
11:02
looking at the community that I had grown up in,
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zajednicu u kojoj sam odrastala,
11:04
which was a community in Belgium, all Holocaust survivors,
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zajednicu u Belgiji, u kojoj su svi preživjeli Holokaust,
11:08
and in my community there were two groups:
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i u toj su zajednici bile dvije grupe ljudi:
11:11
those who didn't die, and those who came back to life.
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oni koji nisu umrli i oni koji su se ponovno rodili.
11:15
And those who didn't die lived often very tethered to the ground,
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Oni koji nisu umrli često su živjeli čvrsto prizemljeni,
11:18
could not experience pleasure, could not trust,
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nisu mogli doživjeti užitak, povjerenje,
11:22
because when you're vigilant, worried, anxious,
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jer kad ste na oprezu, zabrinuti, napeti
11:24
and insecure, you can't lift your head
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i nesigurni, ne možete podići glavu
11:27
to go and take off in space and be playful and safe and imaginative.
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i poletjeti u slobodan prostor, biti zaigrani, sigurni i maštoviti.
11:32
Those who came back to life were those
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Oni koji su se ponovno rodili bili su oni
11:35
who understood the erotic as an antidote to death.
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koji su doživljavali erotičnost kao protuotrov smrti.
11:38
They knew how to keep themselves alive.
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Znali su kako da se održe živima.
11:41
And when I began to listen to the sexlessness of the couples that I work with,
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Kad su mi parovi s kojima sam radila
govorili o nedostatku seksa
govorili o nedostatku seksa
11:45
I sometimes would hear people say, "I want more sex,"
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ponekad bih čula ljude da kažu: "Želim više seksa",
11:48
but generally people want better sex,
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ali ljudi uglavnom žele bolji seks,
11:51
and better is to reconnect with that quality of aliveness,
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a "bolje" znači ponovno se povezati
s onom kvalitetom životnosti,
s onom kvalitetom životnosti,
11:54
of vibrancy, of renewal, of vitality, of eros, of energy
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živosti, obnove, živahnosti, erosa, energije
11:58
that sex used to afford them, or that they've hoped
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koje im je seks nekad donosio, ili koje su se nadali
12:01
it would afford them.
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da će im seks donijeti.
12:03
And so I began to ask a different question.
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Onda sam počela postavljati drugačije pitanje.
12:06
"I shut myself off when ..." began to be the question.
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Pitanje je počelo s: "Isključim se kad ..."
12:11
"I turn off my desires when ..." which is not the same question as,
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"Svoju žudnju isključim kad ..." nije isto pitanje kao
12:14
"What turns me off is ..." and "You turn me off when ..."
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"Moju žudnju gasi ..." ili "Ti me gasiš kad ..."
12:18
And people began to say, "I turn myself off when
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Pa su ljudi počinjali govoriti; "Ugasim se
12:21
I feel dead inside, when I don't like my body,
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kad se osjećam mrtvim iznutra, kad ne volim svoje tijelo,
12:24
when I feel old, when I haven't had time for myself,
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kad se osjećam starim, kad nemam vremena za sebe,
12:27
when I haven't had a chance to even check in with you,
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kad nemam vremena da vidim što se događa s tobom,
12:30
when I don't perform well at work,
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kad nisam uspješan na poslu,
12:31
when I feel low self esteem, when I don't have a sense of self-worth,
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kad nemam samopoštovanja,
kad imam osjećaj da ništa ne vrijedim,
kad imam osjećaj da ništa ne vrijedim,
12:35
when I don't feel like I have a right to want, to take,
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kad imam osjećaj da nemam pravo željeti, uzimati,
12:38
to receive pleasure."
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dobivati užitak."
12:40
And then I began to ask the reverse question.
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A onda sam počela postavljati obrnuto pitanje.
12:43
"I turn myself on when ..." Because most of the time,
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"Uzbudim se kad ...", jer najčešće
12:45
people like to ask the question, "You turn me on,
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ljudi vole pitati: "Ti me uzbuđuješ kad ..."
12:48
what turns me on," and I'm out of the question. You know?
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pa iz pitanja nestaje "JA". Razumijete?
12:52
Now, if you are dead inside, the other person can do a lot of things for Valentine's.
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Jer, ako ste iznutra mrtvi, onaj drugi
može za Valentinovo učiniti bilo što,
može za Valentinovo učiniti bilo što,
12:56
It won't make a dent. There is nobody at the reception desk.
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ali to neće promijeniti baš ništa. Jer nema nikog na recepciji.
12:59
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:00
So I turn myself on when,
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Dakle, uzbudim se kad,
13:03
I turn my desires, I wake up when ...
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aktiviram svoju žudnju, probudim se kad...
13:07
Now, in this paradox between love and desire,
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No, postoji paradoks između ljubavi i žudnje.
13:12
what seems to be so puzzling is that the very ingredients
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Zbunjuje činjenica da isti sastojci
13:15
that nurture love -- mutuality, reciprocity,
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koji hrane ljubav -- uzajamnost, recipročnost,
13:20
protection, worry, responsibility for the other --
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zaštita, brižnost, odgovornost za drugoga --
13:24
are sometimes the very ingredients that stifle desire.
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ponekad su isti oni sastojci koji guše žudnju.
13:28
Because desire comes with a host of feelings
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Jer žudnja često dolazi s pregršt osjećaja
13:32
that are not always such favorites of love:
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koji nisu uvijek miljenici ljubavi:
13:36
jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, power, dominance,
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ljubomora, posesivnost, agresivnost, moć, dominacija,
13:40
naughtiness, mischief.
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zločestoća, nestašnost.
13:42
Basically most of us will get turned on at night
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U osnovi, većinu nas noću će uzbuditi iste one stvari
13:45
by the very same things that we will demonstrate against during the day.
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protiv kojih ćemo se buniti danju.
13:49
You know, the erotic mind is not very politically correct.
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Erotičan mozak baš i nije politički korektan.
13:52
If everybody was fantasizing on a bed of roses,
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Kad bismo svi maštali o krevetu
prekrivenom ružinim laticama
prekrivenom ružinim laticama
13:55
we wouldn't be having such interesting talks about this.
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ne bismo imali toliko zanimljivih razgovora o ovoj temi.
13:59
But no, in our mind up there
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Ali ne, u našem umu
14:01
are a host of things going on that we don't always know
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događa se pregršt stvari za koje ni ne znamo
14:05
how to bring to the person that we love,
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kako da ih kažemo osobi koju volimo,
14:07
because we think love comes with selflessness
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jer mislimo da je ljubav nesebična,
14:10
and in fact desire comes with a certain amount of selfishness
251
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ali žudnja zapravo dolazi s određenom dozom sebičnosti,
14:14
in the best sense of the word:
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u najboljem smislu te riječi:
14:15
the ability to stay connected to one's self
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sposobnost da ostanemo povezani sa svojom biti
14:18
in the presence of another.
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u prisustvu drugih ljudi.
14:20
So I want to draw that little image for you,
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Sad bih vam htjela pokazati na primjeru,
14:23
because this need to reconcile these two sets of needs,
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jer mi se rađamo s težnjom
14:27
we are born with that.
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da pomirimo te dvije grupe potreba,
14:28
Our need for connection, our need for separateness,
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potrebu za povezivanjem, potrebu za odvojenošću,
14:31
or our need for security and adventure,
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odnosno potrebu za sigurnošću i potrebu za avanturom,
14:33
or our need for togetherness and for autonomy,
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potrebu za zajedništvom i za samostalnošću.
14:36
and if you think about the little kid who sits on your lap
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Ako zamislite dijete koje vam sjedi u krilu,
14:39
and who is cozily nested here and very secure and comfortable,
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koje se udobno smjestilo, vrlo sigurno i udobno,
14:43
and at some point all of us need to go out into the world
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i onda u jednom trenutku svatko od nas
ima potrebu otići u svijet,
ima potrebu otići u svijet,
14:47
to discover and to explore.
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otkrivati i istraživati.
14:50
That's the beginning of desire,
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To je početak žudnje,
14:51
that exploratory needs curiosity, discovery.
266
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istraživanje treba znatiželju, otkrića,
14:56
And then at some point they turn around and they look at you,
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I onda se ta djeca u jednom trenutku okrenu prema vama,
15:00
and if you tell them,
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i ako im kažete:
15:02
"Hey kiddo, the world's a great place. Go for it.
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"Hej, klinci, svijet je super mjesto. Krenite.
15:04
There's so much fun out there,"
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Čeka vas toliko zabave",
15:06
then they can turn away and they can experience
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oni mogu otići i istovremeno
15:09
connection and separateness at the same time.
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Iskusiti i povezanost i odvojenost.
15:11
They can go off in their imagination, off in their body,
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Mogu otići iživjeti maštu, tjelesnost,
15:14
off in their playfulness, all the while knowing
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zaigranost, cijelo vrijeme znajući
15:17
that there's somebody when they come back.
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da ih netko čeka kad se vrate.
15:20
But if on this side there is somebody who says,
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No, ako je s ove strane netko tko kaže:
15:22
"I'm worried. I'm anxious. I'm depressed.
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3827
"Ja sam zabrinut. Ja sam napet. Ja sam deprimiran.
15:26
My partner hasn't taken care of me in so long.
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2034
Moj se partner već dugo ne brine za mene.
15:28
What's so good out there? Don't we have everything
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Što je tako važno negdje drugdje? Zar nemamo
15:31
you need together, you and I?"
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sve što nam treba ovdje, zajedno?"
15:33
then there are a few little reactions
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Ima nekoliko reakcija na to,
15:35
that all of us can pretty much recognize.
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koje svi mi dobro poznajemo.
15:38
Some of us will come back, came back a long time ago,
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4792
Neki od nas će se vratiti, vratili smo se odavno.
15:43
and that little child who comes back
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Ono malo dijete koje se vrati
15:45
is the child who will forgo a part of himself
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dijete je koje će se odreći dijela sebe
15:48
in order not to lose the other.
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2416
kako ne bi izgubilo onog drugoga.
15:51
I will lose my freedom in order not to lose connection.
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Izgubit ću svoju slobodu kako ne bih izgubio povezanost.
15:54
And I will learn to love in a certain way
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2682
I naučit ću voljeti na način
15:57
that will become burdened with extra worry
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opterećen dodatnom zabrinutošću,
16:01
and extra responsibility and extra protection,
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dodatnom odgovornošću i dodatnom zaštitom,
16:05
and I won't know how to leave you
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i neću znati kako da te ostavim
16:07
in order to go play, in order to go experience pleasure,
292
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da bih se išao igrati, da bih osjetio užitak,
16:11
in order to discover, to enter inside myself.
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da bih otkrivao, da bih ušao u samog sebe.
16:14
Translate this into adult language.
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2884
Prevedimo to na jezik odraslih.
16:17
It starts very young. It continues into our sex lives
295
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Počinje dok smo vrlo mladi i nastavlja se
16:21
up to the end.
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kroz naš seksualni život do samoga kraja.
16:22
Child number two comes back
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Drugo dijete se vraća,
16:25
but looks like that over their shoulder all the time.
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ali se stalno osvrće preko ramena.
16:27
"Are you going to be there?
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"Hoćeš li me čekati?
16:30
Are you going to curse me? Are you going to scold me?
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Hoćeš li me psovati? Hoćeš li me grditi?
16:31
Are you going to be angry with me?"
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1998
Hoćeš li se ljutiti na mene?"
16:33
And they may be gone, but they're never really away,
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Oni možda i odu, ali nikad nisu stvarno otišli,
16:37
and those are often the people that will tell you,
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i to su oni koji će vam često reći:
16:39
in the beginning it was super hot.
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2329
"Na početku je bilo sjajno."
16:41
Because in the beginning, the growing intimacy
305
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3576
Jer na početku sve veća intimnost
16:45
wasn't yet so strong
306
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1898
još nije bila toliko jaka
16:47
that it actually led to the decrease of desire.
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3063
da smanji žudnju.
16:50
The more connected I became, the more responsible I felt,
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Što sam se povezanijom osjećala,
to sam se više odgovornom osjećala,
to sam se više odgovornom osjećala,
16:54
the less I was able to let go in your presence.
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to sam se teže mogla opustiti u tvojoj prisutnosti.
16:57
The third child doesn't really come back.
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Treće se dijete zapravo ne vraća.
17:00
So what happens, if you want to sustain desire,
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Dakle, što treba učiniti da bi se održala žudnja?
17:03
it's that real dialectic piece.
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To je dijalektični dio.
17:05
On the one hand you want the security in order to be able to go.
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S jedne strane, želite sigurnost da biste mogli otići.
17:09
On the other hand if you can't go, you can't have pleasure,
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S druge strane, ako ne možete otići, ne možete uživati,
17:13
you can't culminate, you don't have an orgasm,
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ne možete doći do vrhunca, ne možete doživjeti orgazam,
17:16
you don't get excited because you spend your time
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ne možete se uzbuditi jer vrijeme provodite
17:18
in the body and the head of the other and not in your own.
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u tijelu i umu onog drugog, a ne u vlastitome.
17:21
So in this dilemma about reconciling
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Dakle, u dilemi oko pomirenja
17:25
these two sets of fundamental needs,
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ovih dviju grupa temeljnih potreba,
17:28
there are a few things that I've come to understand erotic couples do.
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uvidjela sam nekoliko stvari koje rade erotični parovi.
17:32
One, they have a lot of sexual privacy.
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Prvo, imaju mnogo seksualne privatnosti.
17:35
They understand that there is an erotic space
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Razumiju da postoji erotični prostor
17:37
that belongs to each of them.
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koji pripada svakome od njih zasebno.
17:40
They also understand that foreplay is not something you do
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Također razumiju da predigra nije nešto što radite
17:43
five minutes before the real thing.
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pet minuta prije "prave stvari".
17:45
Foreplay pretty much starts at the end of the previous orgasm.
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Predigra manje-više počinje
odmah nakon prethodnog orgazma.
odmah nakon prethodnog orgazma.
17:48
They also understand that an erotic space
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Također razumiju da erotični prostor
17:51
isn't about, you begin to stroke the other.
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nije mjesto na kojemu počnete maziti jedno drugo.
17:53
It's about you create a space where you leave Management Inc.,
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To je stvaranje prostora bez kočnica
17:57
maybe where you leave the agile program,
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gdje napuštate ambiciozan program.
18:00
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
18:01
and you actually just enter that place
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Ulazite u prostor u kojemu
18:04
where you stop being the good citizen
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prestajete biti uzoran građanin
18:07
who is taking care of things and being responsible.
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koji brine za stvari i odgovoran je.
18:09
Responsibility and desire just butt heads.
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Odgovornost i žudnja se ne slažu .
18:13
They don't really do well together.
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Ne idu skupa.
18:15
Erotic couples also understand that passion waxes and wanes.
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Erotični parovi također razumiju da strast sjaji i blijedi.
18:20
It's pretty much like the moon. It has intermittent eclipses.
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Prilično sliči mjesecu: ima naizmjenična pomračenja.
18:23
But what they know is they know how to resurrect it.
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Ali oni je znaju i oživjeti.
18:26
They know how to bring it back,
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Znaju kako je vratiti.
18:28
and they know how to bring it back
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A znaju kako je vratiti
18:29
because they have demystified one big myth,
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jer su demistificirali jedan velik mit:
18:31
which is the myth of spontaneity, which is
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mit o spontanosti,
18:34
that it's just going to fall from heaven while you're folding the laundry
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ideju da će im strast pasti iz vedra neba, dok glačaju rublje,
18:38
like a deus ex machina, and in fact they understood
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kao duh iz boce, i oni zapravo razumiju
18:41
that whatever is going to just happen
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da što god se samo tako može dogoditi,
18:43
in a long-term relationship already has.
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u dugotrajnoj se vezi već dogodilo.
18:46
Committed sex is premeditated sex.
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Seks u trajnoj vezi uvijek je seks s predumišljajem.
18:49
It's willful. It's intentional.
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Promišljen je. Namjeran je.
18:52
It's focus and presence.
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Tajna je u usredotočenosti i prisutnosti.
18:55
Merry Valentine's.
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Sretno Valentinovo.
18:57
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Esther Perel - Relationship therapistPsychotherapist Esther Perel is changing the conversation on what it means to be in love and have a fulfilling sex life.
Why you should listen
For the first time in human history, couples aren’t having sex just to have kids; there’s room for sustained desire and long-term sexual relationships. But how? Perel, a licensed marriage and family therapist with a practice in New York, travels the world to help people answer this question. For her research she works across cultures and is fluent in nine languages. She coaches, consults and speaks regularly on erotic intelligence, trauma, sexual honesty and conflict resolution. She is the author of Mating in Captivity: Reconciling the Erotic and the Domestic. Her latest work focuses on infidelity: what it is, why happy people do it and how couples can recover from it. She aims to locate this very personal experience within a larger cultural context.
Esther Perel | Speaker | TED.com