TEDSalon NY2014
Laurel Braitman: Depressed dogs, cats with OCD — what animal madness means for us humans
Lorel Brejtman (Laurel Braitman): Depresivni psi, mačke s OKP-om – šta životinjsko ludilo znači nama ljudima
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Readability: 4.3
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Iza smešnih video snimaka životinja, ponekad se kriju čudni problemi slični ljudskim. Lorel Brejtman izučava životinje koje pokazuju znakove mentalnih bolesti – od kompulsivnih medveda, preko autodestruktivnih miševa do majmuna s neverovatnim prijateljima. Brejtman se pita šta mi kao ljudi možemo da naučimo, posmatrajući životinje kako izlaze na kraj s depresijom, tugom i mnogim drugim isuviše ljudskim problemima.
Laurel Braitman - Science Historian + Writer
Science historian Laurel Braitman is the author of Animal Madness, a book that takes a close look at our non-human friends and their mental anxieties. Full bio
Science historian Laurel Braitman is the author of Animal Madness, a book that takes a close look at our non-human friends and their mental anxieties. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Oliver was an extremely dashing,
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Oliver je bio izuzetno zanosan,
00:17
handsome, charming and largely unstable male
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zgodan, šarmantan
i veoma nestabilan mužjak
i veoma nestabilan mužjak
00:21
that I completely lost my heart to.
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koji mi je potpuno ukrao srce.
00:25
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
00:28
He was a Bernese mountain dog,
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On je bio burmanski planinski pas,
00:29
and my ex-husband and I adopted him,
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koga smo moj bivši muž i ja usvojili
00:32
and about six months in,
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i nekih šest meseci kasnije
00:34
we realized that he was a mess.
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shvatili smo da je problematičan.
00:37
He had such paralyzing separation anxiety
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Imao je takav parališući
strah od odvajanja
strah od odvajanja
00:39
that we couldn't leave him alone.
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da nije smeo ostajati sam.
00:41
Once, he jumped out of our third floor apartment.
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Jednom je iskočio kroz prozor stana
na trećem spratu.
na trećem spratu.
00:44
He ate fabric. He ate things, recyclables.
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Jeo je tkaninu. Jeo je stvari,
one za reciklažu.
one za reciklažu.
00:49
He hunted flies that didn't exist.
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Lovio je nepostojeće muve.
00:50
He suffered from hallucinations.
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Patio je od halucinacija.
00:52
He was diagnosed with a canine compulsive disorder
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Dijagnostikovan mu je
pseći kompulsivni poremećaj,
pseći kompulsivni poremećaj,
00:55
and that's really just the tip of the iceberg.
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a to je zaista samo vrh ledenog brega.
00:59
But like with humans,
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Ali kao i sa ljudima,
01:03
sometimes it's six months in
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ponekad je potrebno da prođe šest meseci
01:06
before you realize that
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pre nego što shvatite
01:08
the person that you love has some issues.
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da osoba koju volite ima neke probleme.
01:11
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:12
And most of us do not take the person we're dating
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I većina nas ne vrati
osobu s kojom se zabavlja
osobu s kojom se zabavlja
01:16
back to the bar where we met them
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nazad u bar gde smo je i upoznali,
01:19
or give them back to the friend that introduced us,
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niti je vratimo prijatelju
koji nas je upoznao,
koji nas je upoznao,
01:23
or sign them back up on Match.com.
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niti ih pretplatimo ponovo
na sajt za upoznavanje.
na sajt za upoznavanje.
01:26
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:28
We love them anyway,
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Volimo ih uprkos svemu
01:30
and we stick to it,
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i držimo se svog izbora,
01:32
and that is what I did with my dog.
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i baš to sam ja uradila s mojim psom.
01:36
And I was a — I'd studied biology.
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Studirala sam biologiju.
01:40
I have a Ph.D. in history of science
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Imam doktorat iz istorije nauke
01:43
from MIT,
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sa MIT-a,
01:44
and had you asked me 10 years ago
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i da ste me pre deset godina pitali
01:46
if a dog I loved, or just dogs generally,
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da li pas kojeg volim,
ili da li uopšteno psi
ili da li uopšteno psi
01:48
had emotions, I would have said yes,
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imaju osećanja, rekla bih da imaju,
no nisam sigurna da bih vam rekla
01:50
but I'm not sure that I would have told you
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01:52
that they can also wind up with an anxiety disorder,
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da mogu da završe
s anksioznim poremećajem,
s anksioznim poremećajem,
01:54
a Prozac prescription and a therapist.
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receptom za prozak i terapeutom.
01:58
But then, I fell in love, and I realized that they can,
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No onda sam se zaljubila
i shvatila da mogu
i shvatila da mogu
02:02
and actually trying to help my own dog
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i, zapravo, pokušavajući
da pomognem svom psu
da pomognem svom psu
02:05
overcome his panic and his anxiety,
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da savlada paniku i anksioznost,
02:07
it just changed my life.
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to mi je prosto promenilo život.
02:10
It cracked open my world.
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Proširilo je moj svet.
02:12
And I spent the last seven years, actually,
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I provela sam poslednjih sedam godina
02:15
looking into this topic of
mental illness in other animals.
mental illness in other animals.
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istražujući oblast
mentalnih bolesti drugih životinja.
mentalnih bolesti drugih životinja.
Mogu li da budu bolesne kao ljudi
02:17
Can they be mentally ill like people,
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02:19
and if so, what does it mean about us?
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i, ako da, šta to govori o nama?
02:22
And what I discovered is that I do believe
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Otkrila sam da verujem
02:24
they can suffer from mental illness,
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da mogu da boluju od mentalnih bolesti
02:26
and actually looking and trying
to identify mental illness in them
to identify mental illness in them
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i zapravo, traganje i nastojanje
da identifikujemo njihove mentalne bolesti
da identifikujemo njihove mentalne bolesti
02:31
often helps us be better friends to them
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često nam pomaže
da budemo bolji prema njima
da budemo bolji prema njima
02:33
and also can help us better understand ourselves.
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i takođe nam može pomoći
da bolje razumemo nas same.
da bolje razumemo nas same.
02:37
So let's talk about diagnosis for a minute.
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Zato, hajde na kratko
da govorimo o dijagnozi.
da govorimo o dijagnozi.
02:40
Many of us think that we can't know
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Mnogi od nas misle da ne mogu da znaju
02:43
what another animal is thinking,
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o čemu razmišljaju druge životinje
02:46
and that is true,
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i to je istina,
02:47
but any of you in relationships —
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ali svi vi koji ste u vezi -
02:49
at least this is my case —
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bar je tako u mom slučaju -
samo zato što ste pitali nekoga s kim ste
02:51
just because you ask someone that you're with
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02:53
or your parent or your child how they feel
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svog roditelja ili svoje dete,
kako se osećaju,
kako se osećaju,
02:55
doesn't mean that they can tell you.
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ne znači da mogu da vam odgovore.
02:57
They may not have words to explain
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Možda ne mogu rečima da objasne
02:59
what it is that they're feeling,
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šta tačno osećaju,
03:00
and they may not know.
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a možda čak ni ne znaju.
03:02
It's actually a pretty recent phenomenon
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To je zapravo skorašnji fenomen,
osećaj da moramo da razgovaramo s nekim
03:04
that we feel that we have to talk to someone
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03:06
to understand their emotional distress.
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kako bismo razumeli njihove emotivne muke.
03:08
Before the early 20th century,
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Pre ranog XX veka,
03:11
physicians often diagnosed emotional distress
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doktori su često dijagnostikovali
emotivne poremećaje
emotivne poremećaje
03:13
in their patients just by observation.
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kod svojih pacijenata, pukim posmatranjem.
03:17
It also turns out that thinking about
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I ispostavilo se da razmišljanje o
03:18
mental illness in other animals
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poremećajima kod drugih životinja
03:20
isn't actually that much of a stretch.
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i nije naročit poduhvat.
03:22
Most mental disorders in the United States
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Većina mentalnih poremećaja u SAD-u
03:24
are fear and anxiety disorders,
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su poremećaji
vezani za strah i anksioznost,
vezani za strah i anksioznost,
i kada razmišljate o tome,
strah i anksioznost
strah i anksioznost
03:27
and when you think about it, fear and anxiety
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03:29
are actually really extremely
helpful animal emotions.
helpful animal emotions.
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su zapravo izuzetno
korisne emocije kod životinja.
korisne emocije kod životinja.
03:33
Usually we feel fear and anxiety
in situations that are dangerous,
in situations that are dangerous,
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Obično osećamo strah i anksioznost
u opasnim situacijama
u opasnim situacijama
03:36
and once we feel them,
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i čim ih osetimo,
03:37
we then are motivated to move away
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motivisani smo da se sklonimo
03:39
from whatever is dangerous.
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od bilo čega što je opasno.
03:41
The problem is when we begin to feel fear
and anxiety in situations that don't call for it.
and anxiety in situations that don't call for it.
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Problem je kada počnemo da osećamo strah
i anksioznost i kada nema potrebe za tim.
i anksioznost i kada nema potrebe za tim.
03:46
Mood disorders, too, may actually just be
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Poremećaji raspoloženja,
takođe mogu da budu
takođe mogu da budu
03:49
the unfortunate downside of being a feeling animal,
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nesrećna posledica toga što smo
životinje sa osećanjima
životinje sa osećanjima
03:53
and obsessive compulsive disorders also
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i opsesivno kompulsivni poremećaji takođe
03:56
are often manifestations of
a really healthy animal thing
a really healthy animal thing
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su često ispoljavanja
uistinu zdrave životinjske navike,
uistinu zdrave životinjske navike,
03:59
which is keeping yourself clean and groomed.
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a to je održavanje higijene i timarenje.
04:02
This tips into the territory of mental illness
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Ovo prelazi u prostor mentalnih bolesti
04:04
when you do things like
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kada radite stvari,
04:05
compulsively over-wash your hands or paws,
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poput pretranog kompulsivnog
pranja ruku ili šapa,
pranja ruku ili šapa,
04:08
or you develop a ritual that's so extreme
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ili razvijete ritual do te krajnosti
04:10
that you can't sit down to a bowl of food
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da ne možete sesti ispred činije s hranom
04:12
unless you engage in that ritual.
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sve dok ne završite s ritualom.
04:15
So for humans, we have the
"Diagnostic and Statistical Manual,"
"Diagnostic and Statistical Manual,"
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Dakle, za ljude imamo
"Dijagnostički i statistički priručnik",
"Dijagnostički i statistički priručnik",
04:19
which is basically an atlas
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to je u suštini atlas
04:21
of the currently agreed-upon mental disorders.
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trenutno priznatih mentalnih poremećaja.
04:24
In other animals, we have YouTube.
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Za druge životinje imamo Jutjub.
04:27
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
04:29
This is just one search I did for "OCD dog"
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Ovo je samo jedna pretraga
za psa sa OKP-om,
za psa sa OKP-om,
04:32
but I encourage all of you
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ali sve vas ohrabrujem
04:33
to look at "OCD cat."
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da potražite mačke sa OKP-om.
04:36
You will be shocked by what you see.
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Bićete zapanjeni onim što pronađete.
04:40
I'm going to show you just a couple examples.
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Pokazaću vam samo nekoliko primera.
04:44
This is an example of shadow-chasing.
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Ovo je primer jurenja svoje senke.
04:47
I know, and it's funny and in some ways it's cute.
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Znam, smešno je i na neki način je slatko.
04:50
The issue, though, is that dogs
can develop compulsions like this
can develop compulsions like this
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Problem je što psi mogu
da razviju slična prinudna ponašanja
da razviju slična prinudna ponašanja
04:54
that they then engage in all day.
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kojima su zauzeti po celi dan.
04:56
So they won't go for a walk,
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Stoga ne idu u šetnju,
04:58
they won't hang out with their friends,
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ne druže se s prijateljima,
04:59
they won't eat.
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ne žele da jedu.
05:01
They'll develop fixations
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Razvijaju opsesije,
05:03
like chasing their tails compulsively.
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poput kompulsivnog
jurenja sopstvenog repa.
jurenja sopstvenog repa.
05:06
Here's an example of a cat named Gizmo.
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Ovde imamo primer mačka,
koji se zove Gizmo.
koji se zove Gizmo.
05:09
He looks like he's on a stakeout
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Izgleda kao da je u zasedi,
05:12
but he does this for many, many, many hours a day.
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no on to radi mnogo, mnogo,
mnogo sati dnevno.
mnogo sati dnevno.
05:16
He just sits there and he will paw and paw and paw
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Samo sedi tu i grebe i grebe i grebe
05:19
at the screen.
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ispred ekrana.
05:21
This is another example of what's considered
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Ovo je još jedan primer
nečega što se smatra
nečega što se smatra
05:23
a stereotypic behavior.
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stereotipskim ponašanjem.
05:25
This is a sun bear at the
Oakland Zoo named Ting Ting.
Oakland Zoo named Ting Ting.
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Ovo je sunčani medved Ting Ting,
u zoo vrtu u Oklandu.
u zoo vrtu u Oklandu.
05:28
And if you just sort of happened upon this scene,
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Ukoliko zateknete ovaj prizor
05:29
you might think that Ting Ting
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možete da pomislite
05:30
is just playing with a stick,
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da se Ting Ting igra sa štapom,
05:32
but Ting Ting does this all day,
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ali Ting Ting ovo radi po celi dan
05:34
and if you pay close attention
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i, ako budete pažljivo pratili,
05:36
and if I showed you guys
the full half-hour of this clip,
the full half-hour of this clip,
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kad bih vam pokazala
čitav polučasovni klip,
čitav polučasovni klip,
05:39
you'd see that he does the exact same thing
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videli biste da on radi istu stvar,
05:41
in the exact same order, and he spins the stick
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istim redosledom, okreće štap
05:43
in the exact same way every time.
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na isti način, svaki put.
05:46
Other super common behaviors that you may see,
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Neka od zajedničkih ponašanja
koja možete da vidite,
koja možete da vidite,
05:48
particularly in captive animals,
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naročito kod životinja u zatočeništvu,
05:50
are pacing stereotypies or swaying stereotypies,
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su stereotipni hod
ili stereotipno njihanje
ili stereotipno njihanje
05:55
and actually, humans do this too,
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i zapravo i ljudi to rade,
05:56
and in us, we'll sway,
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čak se i mi njišemo.
05:58
we'll move from side to side.
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Pokrećemo se levo-desno.
06:00
Many of us do this, and sometimes
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Mnogi od nas to rade, a ponekad
06:02
it's an effort to soothe ourselves,
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to je pokušaj da ugodimo sebi,
06:04
and I think in other animals
that is often the case too.
that is often the case too.
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i mislim da je tako
i kod drugih životinja.
i kod drugih životinja.
06:06
But it's not just stereotypic behaviors
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Ali nisu samo stereotipna ponašanja
06:08
that other animals engage in.
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ona kojima se životinje prepuštaju.
06:10
This is Gigi. She's a gorilla that lives
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Ovo je Điđi. Ona je gorila
koja živi u zoo vrtu Frenklin park,
u Bostonu.
u Bostonu.
06:12
at the Franklin Park Zoo in Boston.
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06:13
She actually has a Harvard psychiatrist,
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Dodeljen joj je psihijatar sa Harvarda
06:16
and she's been treated for a mood disorder
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da je leči od poremećaja rasploženja,
06:17
among other things.
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između ostalog.
06:19
Many animals develop mood disorders.
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Kod mnogih životinja se razviju
poremećaji raspoloženja.
poremećaji raspoloženja.
06:22
Lots of creatures —
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Mnoga stvorenja -
06:23
this horse is just one example —
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ovaj konj je samo jedan primer -
06:25
develop self-destructive behaviors.
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razviju autodestruktivna ponašanja.
06:27
They'll gnaw on things
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Glodaće stvari
06:28
or do other things that may also soothe them,
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ili će da rade nešto drugo da ugode sebi
06:30
even if they're self-destructive,
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čak i ako je to štetno po njih,
06:32
which could be considered similar
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što se može uporediti
06:33
to the ways that some humans cut themselves.
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s ljudima koji režu sami sebe.
06:37
Plucking.
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Čerupanje.
06:38
Turns out, if you have fur or feathers or skin,
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Izgleda da, ako imate krzno
ili perje ili kožu,
ili perje ili kožu,
06:42
you can pluck yourself compulsively,
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možete da se kompulsivno čupkate,
06:44
and some parrots actually have been studied
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i neki papagaji su zapravo izučavani
da bi se bolje razumela trihotilomanija,
kompulsivno čerupanje kod ljudi,
kompulsivno čerupanje kod ljudi,
06:46
to better understand trichotillomania,
or compulsive plucking in humans,
or compulsive plucking in humans,
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06:49
something that affects
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nešto što pogađa
06:51
20 million Americans right now.
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20 miliona Amerikanaca u ovom trenutku.
06:53
Lab rats pluck themselves too.
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Laboratorijski miševi se takođe čerupaju.
06:55
In them, it's called barbering.
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Kod njih se to zove berberinstvo.
06:57
Canine veterans of conflicts of Iraq and Afghanistan
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Psi veterani
iz iračkih i avganistanskih sukoba
iz iračkih i avganistanskih sukoba
07:00
are coming back with what's
considered canine PTSD,
considered canine PTSD,
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se vraćaju sa onim što se smatra
psećim Posttraumatskim stresom
psećim Posttraumatskim stresom
07:03
and they're having a hard time reentering civilian life
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i teško im je da se vrate civilnom životu,
kada se vrate s razvrstavanja.
07:06
when they come back from deployments.
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07:07
They can be too scared to
approach men with beards
approach men with beards
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Mogu da budu preplašeni
od muškaraca s bradama
od muškaraca s bradama
07:10
or to hop into cars.
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ili od uskakanja u automobile.
07:13
I want to be careful and be clear, though.
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Ipak, želim da budem oprezna i jasna.
07:15
I do not think that canine PTSD
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Ne mislim da je pseći PTSP
07:18
is the same as human PTSD.
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isto što i ljudski PTSP.
07:21
But I also do not think that my PTSD
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Ali takođe ne mislim da je moj PTSP,
07:23
is like your PTSD,
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poput vašeg PTSP-a
07:24
or that my anxiety or that my sadness is like yours.
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ili da je moja anksioznost
ili da je moja tuga poput vaše.
ili da je moja tuga poput vaše.
07:28
We are all different.
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Svi smo mi različiti.
07:30
We also all have very different susceptibilities.
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Svi smo mi osetljivi na različite stvari.
07:33
So two dogs, raised in the same household,
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Dva psa, odgajana u istom domaćinstvu,
07:36
exposed to the very same things,
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izložena istim stvarima,
07:39
one may develop, say, a
debilitating fear of motorcycles,
debilitating fear of motorcycles,
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jedan može da razvije, recimo,
parališući strah od motora
parališući strah od motora
07:43
or a phobia of the beep of the microwave,
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ili fobiju od zvuka mikrotalasne,
07:45
and another one is going to be just fine.
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a drugi može da bude u redu.
07:47
So one thing that people ask me pretty frequently:
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Nešto što me ljudi često pitaju je:
07:50
Is this just an instance of humans
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da li ovde imamo slučaj da ljudi
07:52
driving other animals crazy?
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izluđuju druge životinje?
07:54
Or, is animal mental illness just
a result of mistreatment or abuse?
a result of mistreatment or abuse?
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Ili su životinjske mentalne bolesti samo
rezultat loše nege ili zlostavljanja?
rezultat loše nege ili zlostavljanja?
07:58
And it turns out we're actually
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I izgleda da smo zapravo
07:59
so much more complicated than that.
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mnogo složenji od toga.
08:03
So one great thing that has happened to me
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Nešto izuzetno mi se desilo,
08:06
is recently I published a book on this,
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nedavno sam objavila knjigu o ovome,
08:09
and every day now that I open my email
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i sada, svaki dan kada otvorim moj imejl
08:13
or when I go to a reading
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ili kad predstavljam knjigu,
08:14
or even when I go to a cocktail party,
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pa čak i kad odem na koktel,
08:16
people tell me their stories
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ljudi mi pričaju svoje priče
08:18
of the animals that they have met.
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o životinjama koje su upoznali.
08:20
And recently, I did a reading in California,
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Nedavno sam
predstavljala knjigu u Kaliforniji
predstavljala knjigu u Kaliforniji
08:23
and a woman raised her hand
after the talk and she said,
after the talk and she said,
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i žena je podigla ruku,
nakon govora, i rekla:
nakon govora, i rekla:
08:25
"Dr. Braitman, I think my cat has PTSD."
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"Dr Brejtman, mislim
da moja mačka ima PTSP."
da moja mačka ima PTSP."
08:29
And I said, "Well, why? Tell me a little bit about it."
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A ja sam rekla: "Zašto?
Ispričajte mi malo više o tome."
Ispričajte mi malo više o tome."
08:32
So, Ping is her cat. She was a rescue,
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Ping je njena mačka. Uzeta je iz azila,
08:35
and she used to live with an elderly man,
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a nekada je živela sa starijim čovekom.
08:38
and one day the man was vacuuming
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Jednoga dana čovek je usisavao
08:40
and he suffered a heart attack, and he died.
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kada je doživeo infarkt i umro.
08:43
A week later, Ping was discovered in the apartment
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Nedelju dana kasnije,
Ping je pronađena u stanu
Ping je pronađena u stanu
08:46
alongside the body of her owner,
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514661
1994
pored tela svog vlasnika,
08:48
and the vacuum had been running the entire time.
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a usisivač je radio sve vreme.
08:52
For many months, up to I think
two years after that incident,
two years after that incident,
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Mnogo meseci, čini mi se
skoro dve godine nakon incidenta,
skoro dve godine nakon incidenta,
bila je toliko uplašena da nije mogla
biti u kući kad neko čisti.
biti u kući kad neko čisti.
08:57
she was so scared she couldn't be in
the house when anyone was cleaning.
the house when anyone was cleaning.
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08:59
She was quite literally a scaredy cat.
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Bukvalno je bila plašljivica cica.
09:01
She would hide in the closet.
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Sakrila bi se u orman,
09:04
She was un-self-confident and shaky,
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1802
izgubila bi samopouzdanje i drhtala,
09:05
but with the loving support of her family,
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ali uz ljubav i podršku njene porodice,
09:08
a lot of a time, and their patience,
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uz mnogo vremena i njihovog strpljenja,
09:10
now, three years later,
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sada, tri godine kasnije,
09:11
she's actually a happy, confident cat.
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ona je zapravo srećna, samopouzdana mačka.
09:15
Another story of trauma and
recovery that I came across
recovery that I came across
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Još jedna priča o traumi i izlečenju,
na koju sam naletela,
na koju sam naletela,
09:18
was actually a few years ago.
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desila se pre nekoliko godina.
09:19
I was in Thailand to do some research.
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Bila sam na Tajlandu,
radila neko istraživanje.
radila neko istraživanje.
09:21
I met a monkey named Boonlua,
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3094
Upoznala sam majmuna, pod imenom Bunlua,
09:25
and when Boonlua was a baby,
219
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a kada je Bunlua bio mladunče,
09:27
he was attacked by a pack of dogs,
220
555282
2014
napao ga je čopor pasa,
09:29
and they ripped off both of his legs and one arm,
221
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4844
koji su mu istrgli obe noge i ruku.
09:34
and Boonlua dragged himself to a monastery,
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Bunlua se odvukao do manastira,
09:37
where the monks took him in.
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gde su ga sveštenici prihvatili.
09:38
They called in a veterinarian,
who treated his wounds.
who treated his wounds.
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Pozvali su veterinara,
koji mu je tretirao rane.
koji mu je tretirao rane.
09:41
Eventually, Boonlua wound up
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2215
Na kraju je Bunlua završio
09:43
at an elephant facility,
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1793
u skloništu za slonove,
09:45
and the keepers really decided
to take him under their wing,
to take him under their wing,
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a čuvari su odlučili
da ga uzmu pod svoje okrilje.
da ga uzmu pod svoje okrilje.
09:48
and they figured out what he liked,
228
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1363
Otkrili su šta voli,
09:49
which, it turned out, was mint Mentos
229
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2019
ispostavilo se da su to
bombone od mentola,
bombone od mentola,
09:51
and Rhinoceros beetles and eggs.
230
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3477
nosorog bube i jaja.
09:55
But they worried, because he
was social, that he was lonely,
was social, that he was lonely,
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3172
Ali su se brinuli, jer je bio druželjubiv,
da je usamljen,
da je usamljen,
a nisu ga želeli smestiti s majmunom
09:58
and they didn't want to put
him in with another monkey,
him in with another monkey,
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1767
jer s jednom rukom
10:00
because they thought with just one arm,
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1203
10:01
he wouldn't be able to defend himself or even play.
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2795
ne bi mogao da se brani, niti igra.
10:04
And so they gave him a rabbit,
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Zato su mu dali zeca
10:06
and Boonlua was immediately a different monkey.
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2813
i Bunlua je istog časa
postao drugi majmun.
postao drugi majmun.
10:09
He was extremely happy to be with this rabbit.
237
597517
1982
Bio je izuzetno srećan sa svojim zecom.
10:11
They groomed each other,
they become close friends,
they become close friends,
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Timarili su jedno drugo,
postali bliski prijatelji,
postali bliski prijatelji,
10:13
and then the rabbit had bunnies,
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2703
a onda je zec dobio zečiće.
10:16
and Boonlua was even happier than he was before,
240
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Bunlua je bio čak i srećniji nego ranije,
10:19
and it had in a way given him
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2250
to mu je, na neki način, dalo
10:21
a reason to wake up in the morning,
242
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1845
razlog da se budi ujutru,
10:23
and in fact it gave him such a reason to wake up
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1754
i zapravo, toliko mu je to značilo
10:25
that he decided not to sleep.
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2003
da je odlučio da ne spava.
10:27
He became extremely protective of these bunnies,
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3619
Toliko je postao
zaštitnički nastrojen prema zečićima
zaštitnički nastrojen prema zečićima
10:30
and he stopped sleeping,
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1248
da je prestao da spava,
10:32
and he would sort of nod off
247
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1441
samo bi otkunjao,
10:33
while trying to take care of them.
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1891
pokušavajući da se brine o njima.
10:35
In fact, he was so protective and so affectionate
249
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2443
Zapravo, toliko je štitio i voleo
10:37
with these babies that the sanctuary
250
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1755
ovu mladunčad, da su iz skloništa
10:39
eventually had to take them away from him
251
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2362
na kraju morali da mu ih oduzmu.
Bio je toliko zaštitnički nastrojen
da je brinuo
da je brinuo
10:41
because he was so protective, he was worried
252
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1935
10:43
that their mother might hurt them.
253
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1879
da bi ih majka mogla povrediti.
Kada su mu ih oduzeli, ljudi u sklonštu
10:45
So after they were taken away, the sanctuary staff
254
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1844
10:47
worried that he would fall into a depression,
255
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1609
su brinuli da ne upadne u depresiju
10:49
and so to avoid that,
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i, kako bi to izbegli,
10:50
they gave him another rabbit friend.
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2998
dali su mu novog zeca za prijatelja.
10:53
(Laughter)
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3357
(Smeh)
10:56
My official opinion is that
he does not look depressed.
he does not look depressed.
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2705
Moj zvanični stav je
da ne izgleda depresivno.
da ne izgleda depresivno.
10:59
(Laughter)
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1950
(Smeh)
11:01
So one thing that I would really like people to feel
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4362
Nešto što bih želela da ljudi osete
11:05
is that you really should feel empowered
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3079
jeste da biste trebali
da se osetite ohrabrenim
da se osetite ohrabrenim
11:08
to make some assumptions
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2473
da donosite pretpostavke
11:11
about the creatures that you know well.
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1823
o bićima koja poznajete dobro.
11:13
So when it comes to your dog
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1800
Zato, kada je u pitanju vaš pas
11:14
or your cat or maybe your one-armed monkey
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2318
ili mačka ili možda vaš jednoruki majmun
11:17
that you happen to know,
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1428
koga poznajete,
11:18
if you think that they are traumatized or depressed,
268
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3795
ako mislite da su istraumirani
ili depresivni,
ili depresivni,
11:22
you're probably right.
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2126
verovatno ste u pravu.
11:24
This is extremely anthropomorphic,
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2808
Ovo je krajnja personifikacija,
11:27
or the assignation of human characteristics
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2993
iliti pripisivanje ljudskih osobina
11:30
onto non-human animals or things.
272
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3652
neljudskim bićima ili stvarima.
11:34
I don't think, though, that that's a problem.
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2141
Smatram da to nije problem.
11:36
I don't think that we can not anthropomorphize.
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2092
Mislim da mi ne možemo
da ne personifikujemo.
da ne personifikujemo.
11:38
It's not as if you can take your
human brain out of your head
human brain out of your head
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2902
Ne možete da izvadite
svoj ljudski mozak iz glave,
svoj ljudski mozak iz glave,
11:41
and put it in a jar and then use it
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2104
da ga stavite u teglu
i da ga onda koristite
i da ga onda koristite
11:43
to think about another animal thinking.
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da razmišljate
kako razmišljaju druge životinje.
kako razmišljaju druge životinje.
11:45
We will always be one animal wondering
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2598
Uvek ćemo da budemo
životinja koju interesuju
životinja koju interesuju
11:48
about the emotional experience of another animal.
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2520
emotivna iskustva drugih životinja.
11:50
So then the choice becomes, how
do you anthropomorphize well?
do you anthropomorphize well?
280
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2993
Onda se izbor svodi na to
kako da dobro personifikujete?
kako da dobro personifikujete?
11:53
Or do you anthropomorphize poorly?
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2260
Ili da li vi loše personifikujete?
11:55
And anthropomorphizing poorly
282
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2284
A loša personifikacija
11:58
is all too common.
283
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2165
je prečesta.
12:00
(Laughter)
284
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1632
(Smeh)
12:02
It may include dressing your corgis
up and throwing them a wedding,
up and throwing them a wedding,
285
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2604
To može da bude svečano oblačenje
vašeg korgija za svadbu
vašeg korgija za svadbu
12:04
or getting too close to exotic wildlife because
286
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2656
ili prevelika bliskost
sa egzotičnom divljinom
sa egzotičnom divljinom
12:07
you believe that you had a spiritual connection.
287
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1956
zbog ubeđenja da ste duhovno povezani.
12:09
There's all manner of things.
288
717228
1978
Ima tu dosta toga.
12:11
Anthropomorphizing well, however, I believe is based
289
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3906
Dobra personifikacija,
verujem da se zasniva
verujem da se zasniva
12:15
on accepting our animal
similarities with other species
similarities with other species
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2718
na prihvatanju naših životinjskih
sličnosti s drugim vrstama
sličnosti s drugim vrstama
12:17
and using them to make assumptions
291
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2807
i njihovo korišćenje
za pravljenje pretpostavki
za pravljenje pretpostavki
12:20
that are informed about other
animals' minds and experiences,
animals' minds and experiences,
292
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3639
koje nas informišu o umovima
i iskustvima drugih životinja,
i iskustvima drugih životinja,
12:24
and there's actually an entire industry
293
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2546
i zapravo, postoji čitava industrija
12:26
that is in some ways based
on anthropomorphizing well,
on anthropomorphizing well,
294
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2970
koja je na neki način, zasnovana
na dobroj personifikaciji,
na dobroj personifikaciji,
12:29
and that is the psychopharmaceutical industry.
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3161
a to je industrija psihofarmaceutika.
12:32
One in five Americans is currently
taking a psychopharmaceutical drug,
taking a psychopharmaceutical drug,
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4520
Jedan od pet Amerikanaca
trenutno uzima psihofarmaceutski lek,
trenutno uzima psihofarmaceutski lek,
12:37
from the antidepressants
and antianxiety medications
and antianxiety medications
297
745473
2655
od antidepresiva,
preko lekova za anksioznost
preko lekova za anksioznost
12:40
to the antipsychotics.
298
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1822
do antipsihotika.
12:41
It turns out that we owe this
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1834
Izgleda da dugujemo
12:43
entire psychopharmaceutical arsenal
300
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2373
čitav ovaj arsenal psihofarmaceutika
12:46
to other animals.
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1732
drugim životinjama.
12:47
These drugs were tested in non-human animals first,
302
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2510
Ovi lekovi su prvo testirani
na neljudskim životinjama,
na neljudskim životinjama,
12:50
and not just for toxicity but for behavioral effects.
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3936
ne samo zbog otrovnosti,
već i zbog uticaja na ponašanje.
već i zbog uticaja na ponašanje.
12:54
The very popular antipsychotic Thorazine
304
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3184
Veoma popularni antipsihotik, torazin,
12:57
first relaxed rats before it relaxed people.
305
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3746
prvo je opuštao miševe,
pre nego što je opuštao ljude.
pre nego što je opuštao ljude.
13:01
The antianxiety medication Librium
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2161
Lek protiv anksioznosti, librijum,
13:03
was given to cats selected for
their meanness in the 1950s
their meanness in the 1950s
307
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3823
dat je 1950. mačkama,
izabranim zbog svoje zlobe
izabranim zbog svoje zlobe
13:07
and made them into peaceable felines.
308
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2391
i napravio je od njih miroljubive mace.
13:09
And even antidepressants
were first tested in rabbits.
were first tested in rabbits.
309
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4560
Čak su i antidepresivi
prvo testirani na zečevima.
prvo testirani na zečevima.
13:14
Today, however, we are not just giving these drugs
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2904
Danas, pak, ne dajemo ove lekove
13:17
to other animals as test subjects,
311
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2351
drugim životinjama kao zamorcima,
13:19
but they're giving them these drugs as patients,
312
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2491
već im dajemo ove lekove kao pacijentima,
13:21
both in ethical and much less ethical ways.
313
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4483
kako iz etičkih,
tako i iz manje etičkih razloga.
tako i iz manje etičkih razloga.
13:26
SeaWorld gives mother orcas
antianxiety medications
antianxiety medications
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3870
Sivorld daje majkama orkama
lekove za anksioznost
lekove za anksioznost
13:30
when their calves are taken away.
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2644
kada ih odvoje od mladih.
13:32
Many zoo gorillas have been given antipsychotics
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2283
Mnoge gorile iz zoo vrtova
dobijaju antipsihotike
dobijaju antipsihotike
13:35
and antianxiety medications.
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2066
i lekove protiv anksioznosti.
13:37
But dogs like my own Oliver
318
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2873
Ali psi, poput mog Olivera,
13:40
are given antidepressants and
some antianxiety medications
some antianxiety medications
319
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3239
dobijaju antidepresive
i neke lekove za anksioznost
i neke lekove za anksioznost
13:43
to keep them from jumping out of buildings
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kako ne bi skakali sa zgrada
13:45
or jumping into traffic.
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ili pod automobile.
13:47
Just recently, actually, a study came out in "Science"
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Nedavno je u "Sajensu"
objavljeno istraživanje
objavljeno istraživanje
koje pokazuje da čak i slatkovodni rakovi
13:50
that showed that even crawdads
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13:52
responded to antianxiety medication.
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reaguju na lekove protiv anksioznosti.
13:54
It made them braver, less skittish,
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Od njih su postajali hrabriji,
manje plašljivi
manje plašljivi
13:56
and more likely to explore their environment.
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i raspoloženiji za istraživanje okoline.
Teško je znati koliko je
životinja na ovim lekovima,
životinja na ovim lekovima,
14:01
It's hard to know how many
animals are on these drugs,
animals are on these drugs,
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14:04
but I can tell you that the
animal pharmaceutical industry
animal pharmaceutical industry
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ali mogu da vam kažem
da je industrija farmaceutika za životinje
da je industrija farmaceutika za životinje
14:07
is immense and growing,
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ogromna i da je u porastu,
14:09
from seven billion dollars in 2011
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od sedam milijardi dolara u 2011.
14:12
to a projected 9.25 billion by the year 2015.
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do projektovanih 9.25 milijardi
do 2015. godine.
do 2015. godine.
14:17
Some animals are on these drugs indefinitely.
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Neke životinje su
na ovim lekovima do daljnjeg.
na ovim lekovima do daljnjeg.
14:21
Others, like one bonobo who lives in Milwaukee
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Druge, poput jednog bonoboa
koji živi u Milvokiju,
koji živi u Milvokiju,
14:25
at the zoo there was on them
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u zoo vrtu, bio je na njima
14:27
until he started to save his Paxil prescription
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dok nije počeo da
štedi svoj propisani paksil
štedi svoj propisani paksil
14:29
and then distribute it among the other bonobos.
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kako bi ga kasnije delio drugim bonoboima.
14:31
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smeh) (Aplauz)
14:36
More than psychopharmaceuticals, though,
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Korisnije od farmaceutika
14:39
there are many, many, many other
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su mnoge, mnoge, mnoge druge
terapeutske intervencije,
koje mogu pomoći drugim bićima.
koje mogu pomoći drugim bićima.
14:42
therapeutic interventions that help other creatures.
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14:44
And here is a place where I think actually
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A tu, mislim da zapravo
14:47
that veterinary medicine can teach something
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veterinarska medicina
može podučiti nečemu
može podučiti nečemu
14:49
to human medicine,
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ljudsku medicinu.
14:51
which is, if you take your dog, who is, say,
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A to je, ako povedete psa koji, recimo,
14:53
compulsively chasing his tail,
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kompulsivno juri svoj rep,
14:55
into the veterinary behaviorist,
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kod biheviorističkog veterinara,
14:56
their first action isn't to reach
for the prescription pad;
for the prescription pad;
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njegova prva reakcija neće biti
posezanje za blokom za recepte,
posezanje za blokom za recepte,
14:59
it's to ask you about your dog's life.
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već će vas pitati za život vašeg psa.
15:02
They want to know how often your dog gets outside.
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Želeće da zna koliko često
vaš pas izlazi napolje.
vaš pas izlazi napolje.
15:05
They want to know how much
exercise your dog is getting.
exercise your dog is getting.
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Želeće da zna koliko je
vaš pas fizički aktivan.
vaš pas fizički aktivan.
15:08
They want to know how much social time
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Želeće da zna koliko se druži
15:09
with other dogs and other humans.
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s drugim psima i drugim ljudima.
15:12
They want to talk to you
about what sorts of therapies,
about what sorts of therapies,
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Želeće da razgovara sa vama
o tipovima terapija,
o tipovima terapija,
15:14
largely behavior therapies,
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uglavnom biheviorističkih terapija,
15:16
you've tried with that animal.
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2260
koje ste isprobali s tom životinjom.
15:19
Those are the things that
often tend to help the most,
often tend to help the most,
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2397
Ove stvari često najviše pomažu,
15:21
especially when combined with
psychopharmaceuticals.
psychopharmaceuticals.
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naročito kada se kombinuju
sa psihofarmaceuticima.
sa psihofarmaceuticima.
15:24
The thing, though, I believe, that helps the most,
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2453
Ono što, pak, mislim da najviše pomaže,
15:27
particularly with social animals,
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915344
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naročito kod društvenih životinja,
15:29
is time with other social animals.
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917301
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je druženje
sa drugim društvenim životinjama.
sa drugim društvenim životinjama.
15:32
In many ways, I feel like I became a service animal
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920439
3908
Na razne načine, osećam
da sam postala uslužna životinja
da sam postala uslužna životinja
15:36
to my own dog,
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2504
svom psu,
15:38
and I have seen parrots do it for people
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4027
a videla sam da to papagaji rade za ljude
15:42
and people do it for parrots
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930878
1710
i ljudi za papagaje,
15:44
and dogs do it for elephants
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1538
psi to rade za slonove,
15:46
and elephants do it for other elephants.
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3178
slonovi za druge slonove.
15:49
I don't know about you;
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1333
Ne znam za vas,
15:50
I get a lot of Internet forwards
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2580
meni na internetu prosleđuju mnogo primera
15:53
of unlikely animal friendships.
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2216
neverovatnih životinjskih prijateljstava.
15:55
I also think it's a huge part of Facebook,
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3287
Mislim da to sačinjava
veliki deo Fejsbuka,
veliki deo Fejsbuka,
15:58
the monkey that adopts the cat
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2877
majmun koji je usvojio mačku
16:01
or the great dane who adopted the orphaned fawn,
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949597
4636
ili danska doga
koja je usvojila siroče lane
koja je usvojila siroče lane
16:06
or the cow that makes friends with the pig,
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954233
3004
ili krava
koja se sprijateljila s prasetom,
koja se sprijateljila s prasetom,
16:09
and had you asked me eight,
nine years ago, about these,
nine years ago, about these,
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957237
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i da ste me o ovome pitali
pre osam, devet godina,
pre osam, devet godina,
16:13
I would have told you that they
were hopelessly sentimental
were hopelessly sentimental
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2490
rekla bih vam da je sve to
beznadežna sentimentalnost,
beznadežna sentimentalnost,
16:15
and maybe too anthropomorphic in the wrong way
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3123
a možda i suviše naopaka personifikacija,
16:18
and maybe even staged, and what I can tell you now
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možda je to sve čak i izrežirano,
danas vam mogu reći
danas vam mogu reći
16:21
is that there is actually something to this.
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2952
da tu ima istine.
16:24
This is legit. In fact, some interesting studies
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3595
Ovo je stvarno. Zapravo,
neka zanimljiva istraživanja
neka zanimljiva istraživanja
16:28
have pointed to oxytocin levels,
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1926
su ukazala na nivo oksitocina,
16:30
which are a kind of bonding hormone
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2596
što je neka vrsta hormona za zbližavanje,
16:32
that we release when we're having sex or nursing
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2406
koji se oslobađa prilikom seksa
ili dojenja
ili dojenja
16:35
or around someone that we care for extremely,
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2589
ili kada smo pored nekoga
do koga nam je izuzetno stalo,
do koga nam je izuzetno stalo,
16:37
oxytocin levels raising in both humans and dogs
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985629
2492
nivo oksitocina je u porastu,
i kod ljudi i kod pasa
i kod ljudi i kod pasa
16:40
who care about each other
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988121
1394
koji brinu jedni za druge
16:41
or who enjoy each other's company,
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1660
ili koji uživaju kad su zajedno,
16:43
and beyond that, other studies show that oxytocin
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2309
a i druga istraživanja
pokazuju da je oksitocin
pokazuju da je oksitocin
16:45
raised even in other pairs of animals,
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993484
2136
u porastu i kod drugih parova životinja,
16:47
so, say, in goats and dogs who were
friends and played with each other,
friends and played with each other,
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995620
3605
recimo, kod koza i pasa,
koji su se družili i igrali zajedno,
koji su se družili i igrali zajedno,
16:51
their levels spiked afterwards.
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4459
nivo oksitocina je posle naglo skakao.
16:55
I have a friend who really showed me that
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2767
Imam prijatelja koji mi je pokazao
16:58
mental health is in fact a two-way street.
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2424
da je mentalno zdravlje
zapravo dvosmerna ulica.
zapravo dvosmerna ulica.
17:00
His name is Lonnie Hodge,
and he's a veteran of Vietnam.
and he's a veteran of Vietnam.
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3999
Njegovo ime je Loni Hodž
i on je veteran iz Vijetnama.
i on je veteran iz Vijetnama.
17:04
When he returned, he started working
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1012874
2622
Kada se vratio, počeo je da radi
17:07
with survivors of genocide and a lot of people
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1015496
2643
sa ljudima koji su preživeli genocid
i mnogim drugim
i mnogim drugim
17:10
who had gone through war trauma.
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1528
koji su preživeli ratne traume.
17:11
And he had PTSD and also a fear of heights,
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2484
On je imao PTSP, kao i strah od visine
17:14
because in Vietnam, he had been
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1022151
1899
jer je u Vijetnamu
17:16
rappelling backwards out of helicopters
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1024050
2245
iskakao unatraške iz helikoptera
17:18
over the skids,
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1026295
1435
klizeći niz užad.
17:19
and he was givena service dog
named Gander, a labradoodle,
named Gander, a labradoodle,
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1027730
3069
Dodeljen mu je uslužni pas,
po imenu Gander, labradudla,
po imenu Gander, labradudla,
17:22
to help him with PTSD and his fear of heights.
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1030799
3451
kako bi mu pomogao sa PTSP-om
i strahom od visine.
i strahom od visine.
17:26
This is them actually on the first day that they met,
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1034250
2660
Ovo su oni
prvog dana kada su se upoznali,
prvog dana kada su se upoznali,
17:28
which is amazing, and since then,
404
1036910
2592
neverovatno je, i od tad
17:31
they've spent a lot of time together
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1039502
1765
su proveli mnogo vremena zajedno,
17:33
visiting with other veterans
suffering from similar issues.
suffering from similar issues.
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4250
posećujući druge veterane
koji pate od sličnih problema.
koji pate od sličnih problema.
17:37
But what's so interesting to me about
Lonnie and Gander's relationship
Lonnie and Gander's relationship
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1045517
3062
Ali ono što je meni zanimljivo
u Lonijevom i Genderovom odnosu
u Lonijevom i Genderovom odnosu
17:40
is about a few months in,
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1048579
1778
je da se pre nekih par meseci,
17:42
Gander actually developed a fear of heights,
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1050357
3327
kod Gendera razvio strah od visine,
17:45
probably because he was
watching Lonnie so closely.
watching Lonnie so closely.
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1053684
4297
verovatno zato što je
tako pomno pazio Lonija.
tako pomno pazio Lonija.
17:49
What's pretty great about this, though,
is that he's still a fantastic service dog,
is that he's still a fantastic service dog,
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Ono što je divno u svemu tome
je da je on i dalje odličan uslužni pas,
je da je on i dalje odličan uslužni pas,
17:53
because now, when they're both at a great height,
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1061450
2535
jer sad, kada se obojica
nalaze na velikoj visini,
nalaze na velikoj visini,
17:55
Lonnie is so concerned with Gander's well-being
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3358
Loni je toliko zabrinut za Gendera
17:59
that he forgets to be scared of the heights himself.
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1067343
5974
da zaboravlja da se i sam plaši visine.
18:05
Since I've spent so much time with these stories,
415
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3281
Kako sam provela mnogo vremena
s ovim pričama,
s ovim pričama,
18:08
digging into archives,
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1076598
1404
kopajući po arhivima,
18:10
I literally spent years doing this research,
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1078002
2454
bukvalno sam provela godine
radeći na ovom istraživanju,
radeći na ovom istraživanju,
18:12
and it's changed me.
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2300
i ono me je promenilo.
18:14
I no longer look at animals at the species level.
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3936
Više ne gledam na životinje
iz ugla vrste kojoj pripadaju.
iz ugla vrste kojoj pripadaju.
18:18
I look at them as individuals,
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2228
Posmatram ih kao pojedince,
18:20
and I think about them as creatures
421
1088920
1572
i mislim o njima kao bićima
18:22
with their own individual weather systems
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2759
sa sopstvenim
ličnim meteorološkim sistemima
ličnim meteorološkim sistemima
18:25
guiding their behavior and informing
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1712
koji upravljaju njihovim ponašanjem
18:26
how they respond to the world.
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2309
i informišu ih kako da reaguju na svet.
18:29
And I really believe that this has made me
425
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2888
Zaista verujem da sam
zahvaljujući tome postala
zahvaljujući tome postala
18:32
a more curious and a more empathetic person,
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1100160
2364
znatiželjnija i saosećajnija osoba,
18:34
both to the animals that share my bed
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3443
kako prema životinjama
s kojim delim postelju
s kojim delim postelju
18:37
and occasionally wind up on my plate,
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1105967
2126
i onima koje ponekad završe u mom tanjiru,
18:40
but also to the people that I know
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2850
tako i prema ljudima koje poznajem,
18:42
who are suffering from anxiety
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2951
a koji boluju od anksioznosti
18:45
and from phobias and all manner of other things,
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1113894
2627
i od fobija i raznih drugih stvari.
18:48
and I really do believe that
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1116521
1975
I zaista verujem da,
18:50
even though you can't know exactly
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2248
iako ne možete sa sigurnošću da znate
18:52
what's going on in the mind of a pig
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3387
šta se dešava u umu svinje
18:56
or your pug or your partner,
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1124131
2107
ili vašeg štenca ili vašeg partnera,
18:58
that that shouldn't stop you
from empathizing with them.
from empathizing with them.
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1126248
3807
da vas to ne bi trebalo da spreči
da saosećate s njima.
da saosećate s njima.
19:02
The best thing that we could do for our loved ones
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1130055
2489
Najbolje što možemo da učinimo
za one koje volimo
za one koje volimo
19:04
is, perhaps, to anthropomorphize them.
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4296
je, možda, da ih personifikujemo.
19:08
Charles Darwin's father once told him
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3501
Čarlsu Darvinu je otac jednom rekao
19:12
that everybody could lose their mind at some point.
440
1140341
5219
da svako u jednom momentu
može da izgubi razum.
može da izgubi razum.
19:17
Thankfully, we can often find them again,
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2831
Na sreću, često možemo
ponovo da ga pronađemo,
ponovo da ga pronađemo,
19:20
but only with each other's help.
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2171
ali samo uz međusobnu pomoć.
19:22
Thank you.
443
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Hvala.
19:24
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Laurel Braitman - Science Historian + WriterScience historian Laurel Braitman is the author of Animal Madness, a book that takes a close look at our non-human friends and their mental anxieties.
Why you should listen
Laurel Braitman is a science historian who wants to know: Why is your cat so sad? For her book Animal Madness, the TED Fellow delves into the history of mental illness in animals, revealing a world of parrots that pluck themselves, cats with PTSD and donkeys with deep neuroses. Braitman holds a PhD in history and anthropology of science from MIT and works as an affiliate artist at the Headlands Center for the Arts.
More profile about the speakerLaurel Braitman | Speaker | TED.com