TED2016
Mary Norris: The nit-picking glory of The New Yorker's Comma Queen
玛丽 莫瑞斯: 纽约客逗号女王的挑剔荣耀
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玛丽莫瑞斯说，“为纽约客改稿子，就像是为职业棒球联盟打游击手一样。每一个微小的动作，都会被批评家们挑出刺儿来“，她已经在职三十多年了。在这段时间里，她以严厉著称，并且得到“逗号女王”的称号，但是她说这些从来没有被公诸于世。最重要的是，她的工作的唯一目的是：让作者看起来更完美。让我们一起跟随最懂行的人的演讲，去探寻纽约客最别具一格的风采吧。
Mary Norris - Copy editor
As a copy editor for the New Yorker, Mary Norris enforces some of the most authoritative (some might say eccentric) style rules in publishing. Full bio
As a copy editor for the New Yorker, Mary Norris enforces some of the most authoritative (some might say eccentric) style rules in publishing. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I have spent the past 38 years
trying to be invisible.
trying to be invisible.
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在过去38年的时间里，我都试图做一个隐形人
00:19
I'm a copy editor.
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我是一名审稿员
00:21
I work at The New Yorker,
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我在纽约客工作（美国知名杂志）
为纽约客改稿子
00:23
and copyediting for The New Yorker
is like playing shortstop
is like playing shortstop
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就像是为职业棒球联盟打游击手一样
00:27
for a Major League Baseball team:
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00:29
every little movement
gets picked over by the critics --
gets picked over by the critics --
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每一个微小的动作，都会被批评家们挑出刺儿来
00:33
God forbid you should commit an error.
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上帝禁止你出任何差错
00:37
Just to clarify: copy editors don't choose
what goes into the magazine.
what goes into the magazine.
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先澄清一点：审稿人并没有权利选择可以被发表的文章
00:41
We work at the level of the sentence,
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我们在句子层面工作
00:43
maybe the paragraph,
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也兼顾篇章
00:45
the words, the punctuation.
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我们看的是字词、标点
00:48
Our business is in the details.
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我们的工作主要集中于细节
00:50
We put the diaeresis, the double dot,
over the "i" in "naïve."
over the "i" in "naïve."
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我们加入分音符，就是在 "naïve"中字母i上面的两个点
00:56
We impose house style.
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我们做独特的印刷风格
00:58
Every publication has a house style.
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每一份出版刊物都有自己的印刷风格
01:01
The New Yorker's
is particularly distinctive.
is particularly distinctive.
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纽约客的风格更是别具一格
01:04
We sometimes get teased for our style.
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我们有时候会因为独特的风格而遭到嘲笑
01:07
Imagine -- we still spell
"teen-ager" with a hyphen,
"teen-ager" with a hyphen,
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设想一下，我们仍然在拼写“teen-ager”的时候加上连字符
01:11
as if that word had just been coined.
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就像这词才刚刚被造出来似的
01:14
But you see that hyphen in "teen-age"
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但是你一看到在“teen-age”里面的连字符
01:18
and that diaeresis over "coöperate,"
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和在“cöoperate”上面的分音符
01:21
and you know you're reading
The New Yorker.
The New Yorker.
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你就知道你正在读的是纽约客了
01:23
Copyediting at The New Yorker
is a mechanical process.
is a mechanical process.
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在纽约客做编辑是一个机械的过程
01:27
There is a related role called
query proofreading,
query proofreading,
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有一个与此相关的环节叫做查询校对
01:30
or page-OK'ing.
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或者叫“让这一页OK”
01:32
Whereas copyediting is mechanical,
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与机械性的编辑工作形成对照的是
01:35
query proofreading is interpretive.
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查询校对起到解释说明的作用
01:38
We make suggestions to the author
through the editor
through the editor
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我们通过编者来对作者提出建议
01:42
to improve the emphasis of a sentence
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以便能够加强句子语气
01:44
or point out unintentional repetitions
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或者指出无意识的重复
01:47
and supply compelling alternatives.
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也会提出更有力的替代选项
01:52
Our purpose is to make
the author look good.
the author look good.
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我们的目的是让作者看起来更完美
01:55
Note that we give our proofs
not directly to the author,
not directly to the author,
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既然我们不是把校对意见直接告诉作者
01:58
but to the editor.
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而是告诉编辑
02:00
This often creates
a good cop/bad cop dynamic
a good cop/bad cop dynamic
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这就会造成好人/坏人的动态转换
02:04
in which the copy editor -- I'll use that
as an umbrella term --
as an umbrella term --
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在这个过程中，审稿员-我来解释一下-
02:08
is invariably the bad cop.
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是永恒不变的坏人
02:12
If we do our job well, we're invisible,
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如果我们把工作做好了，我们就能继续隐形
02:14
but as soon as we make a mistake,
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可是一旦我们犯了错
02:16
we copy editors become glaringly visible.
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我们审稿员就会成为众矢之的
02:21
Here is the most recent mistake
that was laid at my door.
that was laid at my door.
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这是我最近犯的错误
02:25
[Last Tuesday, Sarah Palin,
the pre-Trump embodiment
the pre-Trump embodiment
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【上周二，在共和党集会上
Sarah Palin在Trump之前已经成为no-nothingism无可知论的化身（应为“不可知论”）
02:29
of populist no-nothingism
in the Republican Party,
in the Republican Party,
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02:32
endorsed Trump.]
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支持Trump】
02:34
"Where were The New Yorker's fabled
copy editors?" a reader wrote.
copy editors?" a reader wrote.
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有读者问，“纽约客传说中的审稿员都干嘛去了”
02:39
"Didn't the writer mean
'know-nothingism'?"
'know-nothingism'?"
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“难道作者想说的不是know-knowingism(不可知论)吗？”
02:42
Ouch.
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哦==
02:44
There's no excuse for this mistake.
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犯这种错误是没有任何借口的
02:46
But I like it: "no-nothingism."
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但是我喜欢no-nothingism
02:49
It might be American
vernacular for "nihilism."
vernacular for "nihilism."
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这有可能是美国版的“虚无主义”呀
02:53
(Laughter)
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（笑）
02:57
Here, another reader quotes
a passage from the magazine:
a passage from the magazine:
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另一个读者引用杂志里的一段话
03:00
[Ruby was seventy-six, but she retained
her authoritative bearing;
her authoritative bearing;
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【Ruby已经76岁了，但她仍然保持权威的姿态
03:04
only her unsteady gait belied her age.]
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只有她蹒跚的步态与她的年龄不相符】
03:08
He added:
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他说
03:09
"Surely, someone at The New Yorker
knows the meaning of 'belied,'
knows the meaning of 'belied,'
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“当然了，纽约客里的人知道“belied（与...不相符）”的意思
03:13
and that it is the opposite
of how it is used in this sentence.
of how it is used in this sentence.
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但在这个句子里却完全把这个单词用反了
03:16
Come on! Get it together."
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别闹了！认真点行么！”
03:18
Belie: to give a false impression.
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Belie的意思是，给别人以错误的印象
03:22
It should have been "betrayed."
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在这儿应该用“暴露”这个词更加合适
03:25
E.B. White once wrote
of commas in The New Yorker:
of commas in The New Yorker:
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E.B. White有一次写到纽约客里的逗号，他说
03:28
"They fall with the precision
of knives outlining a body."
of knives outlining a body."
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“他们像用刀去描绘人体轮廓一样，精准的分毫不差”
03:33
(Laughter)
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（笑）
03:34
And it's true -- we get a lot
of complaints about commas.
of complaints about commas.
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这是事实，我们收到了好多关于逗号的投诉
03:38
"Are there really two commas
in 'Martin Luther King, Jr., Boulevard'?"
in 'Martin Luther King, Jr., Boulevard'?"
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“在'Martin Luther King, Jr., Boulevard'里
真的有两个逗号吗？”
真的有两个逗号吗？”
03:42
There may not be on the sign, but yes,
that is New Yorker style for "Jr."
that is New Yorker style for "Jr."
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也许没有明确的说明，
但是没错，这就是纽约客写 "Jr."的风格
但是没错，这就是纽约客写 "Jr."的风格
03:48
One wag wrote:
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有个爱开玩笑的人说
03:50
["Please, could you expel,
or, at least, restrain,
or, at least, restrain,
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【“拜托，你们可不可以杜绝，或者，至少，限制，一下
03:53
the comma-maniac,
on your editorial staff?"]
on your editorial staff?"]
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在你们的编辑中间那一股逗号狂热症，的存在？”】
03:56
(Laughter)
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（笑）
03:58
Ah, well.
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恩，好吧
03:59
In this case, those commas
are well-placed,
are well-placed,
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在这句话里，别的逗号放的都合情合理
04:01
except that there should not be one
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只是有一点
04:03
between "maniac" and "on."
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在maniac和on之间，不应该有逗号出现
04:05
(Laughter)
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（笑）
04:06
Also, if we must have commas
around "at least,"
around "at least,"
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同样，如果在“at least (至少)”这个短语周围需要逗号的话
04:10
we might change it up
by using dashes around that phrase:
by using dashes around that phrase:
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我们通常会改用破折号
04:14
"... -- or, at least, restrain --"
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“...--或者，至少，限制--”
04:18
Perfect.
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完美
04:19
(Applause)
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（掌声）
04:21
Then there's this:
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还有这种：
04:22
"Love you, love your magazine,
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“爱你们，也爱你们的杂志，
04:24
but can you please stop writing
massive numbers as text?"
massive numbers as text?"
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但是能不能不要在文章里写出巨额数字了？”
04:29
[two and a half million ...]
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【二百五十万...三百八十五万...】
04:30
No.
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不行
04:31
(Laughter)
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（笑）
04:34
One last cri de coeur
from a spelling stickler:
from a spelling stickler:
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最后的强烈抗议是针对拼写的细节
04:37
["Those long stringy things
are vocal cords, not chords."]
are vocal cords, not chords."]
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【“那些细长的像绳子一样的东西是声带(cord)，不是和弦(chord)”】
04:42
The outraged reader added,
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愤怒的读者说
04:44
"I'm sure I'm not the first to write
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“我确信我肯定不是第一个
04:46
regarding this egregious
proofreading error,
proofreading error,
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来指出这些超乎寻常的审阅纰漏的人，
04:49
but I'm equally sure I won't be the last.
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但我可以肯定，我也不是最后一个，
04:52
Fie!"
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呸！”
04:53
(Laughter)
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（笑）
04:55
I used to like getting mail.
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我是真喜欢收信呐！
04:59
There is a pact
between writers and editors.
between writers and editors.
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在作者和编辑之间有一种契约
05:01
The editor never sells out the writer,
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编辑从来不会出卖作者
05:04
never goes public about bad jokes
that had to be cut
that had to be cut
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也不会把剪掉的不好玩的笑话
05:07
or stories that went on too long.
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和冗长的故事告诉别人
05:10
A great editor saves a writer
from her excesses.
from her excesses.
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伟大的编辑通过适当的删减
来拯救作者
来拯救作者
05:15
Copy editors, too, have a code;
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审稿人也有我们的执业准则
05:17
we don't advertise our oversights.
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我们不会到处宣讲我们对文章的监管
05:20
I feel disloyal divulging them here,
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在这儿泄露这些秘密，我觉得自己不太忠诚
05:23
so let's have look at what we do right.
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所以来一起看看我们做的合适的事儿
05:27
Somehow, I've gotten
a reputation for sternness.
a reputation for sternness.
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不知为啥，我这个人以严厉著名
05:31
But I work with writers who know
how to have their way with me.
how to have their way with me.
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但是跟我一起共事的作者都知道该怎么跟我相处
05:35
I've known Ian Frazier, or "Sandy,"
since the early 80s.
since the early 80s.
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我在八十年代初就认识了Ian Frazier，我也叫他"Sandy"
05:39
And he's one of my favorites,
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他是我最喜欢的作者之一
05:41
even though he sometimes writes a sentence
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尽管有时候他写出来的句子
05:44
that gives a copy editor pause.
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会让审稿员头疼
05:46
Here is one from a story
about Staten Island
about Staten Island
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这是风暴Sandy过后
05:49
after Hurricane Sandy:
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他写的关于斯塔恩岛的文字
05:52
[A dock that had been broken
in the middle and lost its other half
in the middle and lost its other half
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【一个从中间部分折断，塌了一半的码头
05:56
sloped down toward the water,
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朝水面倾斜
05:58
its support pipes and wires
leaning forward
leaning forward
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支撑它的管道和线缆向前倾
06:02
like when you open a box
of linguine and it slides out.]
of linguine and it slides out.]
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就像你打开一盒意大利扁面，而面条滑出来的样子】
06:06
(Laughter)
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（笑）
06:07
This would never have got past
the grammarian in the days of yore.
the grammarian in the days of yore.
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这要是放在从前，文法老师才不会允许这么写东西呢
06:12
But what could I do?
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但是我能做什么呢？
06:13
Technically, the "like" should be an "as,"
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事实上，“like（像）”这个单词应该被替换为
“as（当...时）”
“as（当...时）”
06:16
but it sounds ridiculous,
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但是听上去很滑稽
06:17
as if the author were about to embark
on an extended Homeric simile --
on an extended Homeric simile --
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就像作者即将登上荷马时期明喻的巨轮
06:22
"as when you open a box of linguine."
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“当你打开一盒意大利扁面”
06:25
(Laughter)
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（笑）
06:26
I decided that the hurricane
conferred poetic justice on Sandy
conferred poetic justice on Sandy
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我决定让暴风授予Sandy以诗歌上的公正
06:31
and let the sentence stand.
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然后让句子保持原样
06:33
(Laughter)
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（笑）
06:34
Generally, if I think something is wrong,
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通常情况下，我如果觉得什么地方不太对
06:36
I query it three times.
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我都会看三遍
06:37
I told Sandy that not long ago
in a moment of indiscretion and he said,
in a moment of indiscretion and he said,
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不久之前有一次我跟Sandy聊到关于严谨的话题时
我把这事儿告诉了他
我把这事儿告诉了他
06:41
"Only three?"
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“只有三次？”
06:43
So, he has learned to hold out.
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所以，他学会了坚持
06:45
Recently, he wrote a story
for "Talk of the Town,"
for "Talk of the Town,"
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最近，他给“城镇说”写了个故事
06:47
that's the section
at the front of the magazine
at the front of the magazine
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故事被放到杂志首页
06:49
with short pieces on subjects
ranging from Ricky Jay's exhibit
ranging from Ricky Jay's exhibit
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首页上还有其他主题
06:52
at the Metropolitan Museum
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从Ricky Jay在大都市博物馆的展品
06:54
to the introduction
of doggie bags in France.
of doggie bags in France.
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到对于法国食品袋（用于顾客打包带走）的介绍
06:57
Sandy's story was about
the return to the Bronx
the return to the Bronx
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Sandy写的是关于最高法院法官Sonia Sotomayor
07:00
of Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
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回到布朗克斯的故事
07:02
There were three things
in it that I had to challenge.
in it that I had to challenge.
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在文章里有三个地方我觉得需要改进
07:05
First, a grammar query.
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第一个疑问是关于语法的
07:06
The justice was wearing black
and Sandy wrote,
and Sandy wrote,
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法官穿了黑衣服，所以Sandy写到
07:09
[Her face and hands stood out
like in an old, mostly dark painting.]
like in an old, mostly dark painting.]
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【她的脸和手很突出，好像在古老的，全黑的画作里】
07:15
Now, unlike with the hurricane,
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不像是描述风暴时使用的“like”
07:17
with this "like," the author
didn't have the excuse
didn't have the excuse
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这一次，作者没什么理由
07:19
of describing hurricane damage.
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使用“like（好像）”这个词
07:21
"Like" in this sense is a preposition,
and a preposition takes an object,
and a preposition takes an object,
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“like”在这儿是个介词，介词后面得是一个物体
07:25
which is a noun.
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也就是个名词
07:26
This "like" had to be an "as."
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这里的“like”得换成“as”
07:29
"As in an old, mostly dark painting."
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“如同存在于古老的，黑色的画作之中”
07:32
Second, a spelling issue.
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第二个是拼写问题
07:34
The author was quoting someone
who was assisting the justice:
who was assisting the justice:
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作者引用了某个助手的一句话
07:37
["It will be just a minute.
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【“马上就好，
07:39
We are getting the justice mic'ed,"]
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我们即将扩音（mic'ed）正义”】
07:43
Mic'ed?
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Mic‘ed?
07:44
The music industry spells it "mic"
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音乐人把话筒（microphone）拼写成“mic”
07:47
because that's how it's spelled
on the equipment.
on the equipment.
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因为在设备上印的就是“mic”三个字母
07:49
I'd never seen it used
as a verb with this spelling,
as a verb with this spelling,
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但是我从来没见过这个单词被用作动词
07:51
and I was distraught
to think that "mic'ed"
to think that "mic'ed"
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一想到"mic'ed"要出现在我审阅过的杂志里
07:54
would get into the magazine on my watch.
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我真的会抓狂
07:56
(Laughter)
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（笑）
07:57
New Yorker style for "microphone"
in its abbreviated form is "mike."
in its abbreviated form is "mike."
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纽约客把“microphone”简写成“mike”
08:02
Finally, there was a sticky
grammar and usage issue
grammar and usage issue
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最后，还有一个很麻烦的语法和使用问题
08:05
in which the pronoun has to have
the same grammatical number
the same grammatical number
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代词跟先行词要在语法数量上
08:08
as its antecedent.
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保持一致
08:11
[everyone in the vicinity
held their breath]
held their breath]
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【每一个在附近的人，都屏住了他们的呼吸】
08:15
"Their" is plural and "everyone,"
its antecedent, is singular.
its antecedent, is singular.
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“他们的”是复数形式，而作为先行词的“每个人”是单数
08:19
You would never say,
"Everyone were there."
"Everyone were there."
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你永远不会说
“每个人一起在”
“每个人一起在”
08:22
Everyone was there. Everyone is here.
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每个人曾经在，每个人现在在
08:26
But people say things like,
"Everyone held their breath" all the time.
"Everyone held their breath" all the time.
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但是人们总在说“每个人屏住他们的呼吸”
08:30
To give it legitimacy,
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为了让这些句子看起来更合理
08:31
copy editors call it
"the singular 'their,'"
"the singular 'their,'"
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审稿员给它们取了个名字，叫做“单数的他们”
08:34
as if calling it singular
makes it no longer plural.
makes it no longer plural.
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就好像把它叫做单数，这个词就不再是复数了一样
08:37
(Laughter)
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（笑）
08:39
It is my job when I see it in print
to do my best to eliminate it.
to do my best to eliminate it.
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我的工作就是当我看到这种句子被印出来的时候
尽可能的去消除它们
尽可能的去消除它们
08:45
I couldn't make it,
"Everyone held her breath,"
"Everyone held her breath,"
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我不能把句子改成“每个人都屏住她的呼吸”
08:47
or "Everyone held his breath,"
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或者是“每个人都屏住他的呼吸”
08:49
or "Everyone held his or her breath."
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或者“每个人都屏住他的或她的呼吸”
08:52
Whatever I suggested had to blend in.
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我提的建议得让句子融到一起
08:55
I asked, through the editor,
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我通过编辑来询问
08:56
if the author would consider changing it
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作者愿不愿意把句子改成
08:58
to "All in the vicinity
held their breath,"
held their breath,"
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“所有在附近的人都屏住了他们的呼吸”
09:01
because "all" is plural.
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因为“所有人”是复数
09:02
Nope.
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不行
09:04
I tried again: "All those present
held their breath?"
held their breath?"
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我再问
“所有出席的人都屏住了他们的呼吸？”
“所有出席的人都屏住了他们的呼吸？”
09:07
I thought this sounded vaguely judicial.
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我觉得这个听起来模模糊糊还算公正
09:09
But the editor pointed out
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但是编辑说
09:10
that we could not have "present"
and "presence"
and "presence"
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我们不能把“出席的(present)”和“出席(presence)”
09:13
in the same sentence.
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放到一个句子里
09:15
When the final proof came back,
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校对过的最后版本出来时
09:16
the author had accepted "as" for "like,"
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作者接受了把“like”换成“as”
09:19
and "miked" for "mic'ed."
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1935
也把“mic'ed”换成了"miked"
09:21
But on "Everyone held their breath,"
he stood his ground.
he stood his ground.
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但是在“每个人都屏住了他们的呼吸”这个句子上
作者维持原状
作者维持原状
09:25
Two out of three isn't bad.
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三个改了两个，也还不错吧
09:28
In the same issue,
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同样的
09:29
in that piece on doggie bags in France,
195
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在那个讲法国食品袋的文章里
09:31
there was the gratuitous use
of the f-word by a Frenchman.
of the f-word by a Frenchman.
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法国人无缘无故的说了好多脏话
09:36
I wonder, when the mail comes in,
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我很好奇，再次受到来信的时候，
09:38
which will have offended the readers more.
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到底是哪一个会让读者更加愤怒
09:41
(Laughter)
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（笑）
09:43
Thank you.
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谢谢大家
09:44
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mary Norris - Copy editorAs a copy editor for the New Yorker, Mary Norris enforces some of the most authoritative (some might say eccentric) style rules in publishing.
Why you should listen
Mary Norris settled into her 30-year New Yorker copy-editing post almost by accident -- and after a picaresque series of occupations ranging from checking feet at a Cleveland swimming pool to driving a milk truck. Over the years, she has mustered her skills in the service of such storied writers as Philip Roth, Pauline Kael and George Saunders.
In her book Between You & Me, Norris reflects on her career, the oft-debated quirks of New Yorker style, the serial comma and the joys of a well-sharpened pencil.
Mary Norris | Speaker | TED.com