Mission Blue Voyage
Barton Seaver: Sustainable seafood? Let's get smart
Barton Seaver ：永續的海鮮？讓我們變得聰明一點吧
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廚師 Barton Seaver 點出了一個當今遇到的兩難問題：海鮮是我們比較健康的蛋白質來源之一，但是過度捕撈已經造成海洋很大的傷害。他建議了一種簡單的方式來讓魚能繼續出現在餐桌上，其中包括了媽媽們最常說的那句話 -- "多吃點蔬菜！"
Barton Seaver - Chef
Barton Seaver is an advocate of sustainable seafood and a chef in Washington DC. His work tells the story of our common resources through the communion we all share – dinner. Full bio
Barton Seaver is an advocate of sustainable seafood and a chef in Washington DC. His work tells the story of our common resources through the communion we all share – dinner. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Sustainability represents
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永續性是指
00:17
the what, the where and the how
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捕撈什麼、在哪裡捕撈，
00:19
of what is caught.
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以及怎麼去捕撈那東西。
00:21
The who and the why are what's important to me.
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對我來說，誰在捕撈以及為什麼捕撈是很重要的。
00:23
I want to know the people behind my dinner choices.
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我想知道在我的晚餐料理背後的那些人。
00:25
I want to know how I impact them.
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我想知道我對他們會有怎樣的影響。
00:27
I want to know how they impact me.
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我想知道他們會如何影響我。
00:29
I want to know why they fish.
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我想知道為什麼他們要捕魚。
00:31
I want to know how they rely on the water's bounty
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我想知道他們有多麼依賴大海的賜予
00:33
for their living.
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藉以謀生。
00:35
Understanding all of this enables us
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了解這些可以讓我們
00:37
to shift our perception of seafood
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將我們對於海鮮的認知
00:39
away from a commodity
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從單純的商品
00:41
to an opportunity
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轉變為可以讓生態系統
00:43
to restore our ecosystem.
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回復的機會。
00:45
It allows for us to celebrate the seafood
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了解這些可以讓我們慶幸
00:47
that we're also so fortunate to eat.
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自己還能吃到海鮮。
00:49
So what do we call this?
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所以，我們該稱之為什麼呢？
00:51
I think we call it restorative seafood.
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我想我們該稱之為恢復性海鮮。
00:54
Where sustainability is the capacity
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永續性是指
00:56
to endure and maintain,
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可以持續並進行修補的能力，
00:58
restorative is the ability to replenish and progress.
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恢復性則是指可以補充並增加的能力。
01:01
Restorative seafood allows for an evolving and dynamic system
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恢復性海鮮可以產生一個不停演化進展的系統，
01:04
and acknowledges our relationship with the ocean
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並且讓海洋能夠
01:06
as a resource,
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變成我們的一種資源，
01:08
suggesting that we engage to replenish the ocean
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促使我們去讓海洋得以補充，
01:11
and to encourage its resiliency.
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增加它的恢復力。
01:13
It is a more hopeful, it is a more human,
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這是一種比較有希望、比較人道，
01:16
and is a more useful way of understanding our environment.
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也比較有效的方式來了解我們的環境。
01:20
Wallet guides -- standard issue
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消費指南 -- 是由
01:23
by lots in the marine conservation world --
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世界海洋保護組織所制定的標準 --
01:25
are very handy; they're a wonderful tool.
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相當方便，是很棒的工具書。
01:28
Green, yellow and red lists [of] seafood species.
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用綠色、黃色和紅色來標示海鮮種類。
01:31
The association is very easy: buy green, don't buy red,
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很簡單的概念：買綠色的，不要買紅色的，
01:34
think twice about yellow.
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想買黃色的時候要三思。
01:36
But in my mind, it's really not enough
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但是對我來說，
01:38
to just eat green list.
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只吃綠色的作法還是不夠。
01:40
We can't sustain this without the measure of our success
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如果無法確認這樣能成功的改變
01:43
really changing the fate of the species
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那些黃色和紅色魚種的命運，
01:45
in the yellow and the red.
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就無法保持其永續性。
01:47
But what if we eat only in the green list?
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但是如果我們只吃綠色標示的魚呢？
01:50
You've got pole-caught yellowfin tuna here --
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這裡有專門捕撈的黃鰭金槍魚 --
01:53
comes from sustainable stocks.
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來自於永續性放養池中。
01:55
Pole caught -- no bycatch.
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專門捕撈 -- 不是被誤補的。
01:57
Great for fishermen. Lots of money. Supporting local economies.
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對於漁民而言很棒。可以賺很多錢。可以促進地方經濟。
02:00
But it's a lion of the sea. It's a top predator.
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但是它是海裡的獅子。它是頂層掠食者。
02:03
What's the context of this meal?
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這一餐的含意是什麼？
02:05
Am I sitting down in a steakhouse to a 16-ounce portion of this?
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我會到牛排館點一份16盎司的黃鰭金槍魚嗎？
02:08
Do I do this three times a week?
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我會每個禮拜吃三次嗎？
02:10
I might still be in the green list,
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也許我仍然在吃綠色標示的魚，
02:12
but I'm not doing myself, or you,
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但是對我、對你，
02:14
or the oceans any favors.
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或是對海洋來說都沒有好處。
02:18
The point is that we have to have a context,
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重點是我們必須有一個概念，
02:20
a gauge for our actions in all this.
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對於我們所做的事情要有一個標準。
02:23
Example: I've heard that red wine is great for my health --
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舉例來說：我聽說紅酒對健康很好 --
02:26
antioxidants and minerals -- heart healthy.
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有抗氧化劑和礦物質 -- 對心臟很好。
02:28
That's great! I love red wine!
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太棒了！我愛紅酒！
02:30
I'm going to drink so much of it. I'm going to be so healthy.
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我要喝很多紅酒。我會變得非常健康。
02:33
Well, how many bottles is it
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那麼，在我喝出問題之前，
02:35
before you tell me that I have a problem?
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我可以喝多少瓶？
02:37
Well folks, we have a protein problem.
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朋友們，我們有個關於蛋白質的問題。
02:39
We have lost this sensibility
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當它牽涉到食物時，
02:41
when it regards our food,
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我們會失去對它的敏感度，
02:43
and we are paying a cost.
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而我們會因此付出代價。
02:45
The problem is we are hiding that cost beneath the waves.
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問題是，我們將這代價隱藏在這種風潮之下。
02:48
We are hiding that cost
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我們將這代價
02:50
behind the social acceptance of expanding waistlines.
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隱藏在社會接受腰圍變粗的現象之後。
02:52
And we are hiding that cost behind monster profits.
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我們將這代價隱藏在巨大商業利益之後。
02:56
So the first thing about this idea of restorative seafood
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所以，關於恢復性海鮮第一件事，
02:58
is that it really takes into account our needs.
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是必須了解我們真正需要的數量。
03:01
Restorative seafood might best be represented
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恢復性海鮮的最佳代表，
03:03
not by Jaws, or by Flipper, or the Gordon's fisherman,
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不是大白鯊、海豚或Gordon海鲜食品，
03:05
but rather, by the Jolly Green Giant.
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而是綠巨人。
03:08
Vegetables:
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也就是各種蔬菜：
03:10
they might yet save the oceans.
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它們也許能夠拯救海洋。
03:12
Sylvia likes to say that blue is the new green.
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Sylvia 喜歡說藍色是新的綠色。
03:14
Well I'd like to respectfully submit
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那麼，我想尊敬地提出，
03:16
that broccoli green might then be the new blue.
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花椰菜的綠色也許是新的藍色。
03:20
We must continue to eat
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我們必須持續地
03:22
the best seafood possible, if at all.
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去吃能吃到最好的海鮮。
03:25
But we also must eat it with a ton of vegetables.
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但是我們也必須配著大量的蔬菜一起吃。
03:28
The best part about restorative seafood though
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雖然這些恢復性海鮮最棒的吃法是
03:30
is that it comes on the half-shell
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用一半的貝殼將它裝盛上桌，
03:32
with a bottle of Tabasco and lemon wedges.
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再配上一瓶TABASCO辣椒醬和檸檬片。
03:34
It comes in a five-ounce portion of tilapia
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一份五盎司的鯛魚，
03:36
breaded with Dijon mustard and crispy, broiled breadcrumbs
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用 Dijon 芥末醬和烤得酥脆的土司碎片包覆著，
03:39
and a steaming pile of pecan quinoa pilaf
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加上一份山核桃藜麥燴飯
03:41
with crunchy, grilled broccoli
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搭配著酥脆的花椰菜，
03:43
so soft and sweet and charred and smoky on the outside
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外表是如此柔軟、甜美又帶點略焦的煙燻色澤，
03:45
with just a hint of chili flake.
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再加上一點點的辣椒片。
03:47
Whooo!
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哇！
03:49
This is an easy sell.
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這肯定會熱賣。
03:51
And the best part is all of those ingredients are available
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最棒的是這些材料
03:53
to every family at the neighborhood Walmart.
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在每個家庭附近的超級市場都買得到。
03:56
Jamie Oliver is campaigning
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Jamie Oliver 正在發起一個
03:59
to save America from the way we eat.
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藉由改變飲食習慣的活動來拯救美國。
04:02
Sylvia is campaigning to save the oceans
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Sylvia 正在發起一個
04:05
from the way we eat.
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藉由飲食習慣的活動來拯救海洋。
04:07
There's a pattern here.
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這是一個很好的典範。
04:09
Forget nuclear holocaust;
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先忘記核子戰爭的災難；
04:11
it's the fork that we have to worry about.
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我們要擔心的不只是那件事。
04:14
We have ravaged our Earth
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我們已經破壞了地球生態，
04:16
and then used the food that we've sourced
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還將我們視為天然資源的食物
04:18
to handicap ourselves in more ways than one.
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在許多方面上困擾著我們自己。
04:21
So I think we have this whole eating thing wrong.
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所以我認為我們的飲食習慣是不對的。
04:24
And so I think it's time
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因此，我想現在正是時候
04:26
we change what we expect from our food.
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我們該改變我們對食物原有的看法。
04:28
Sustainability is complicated
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永續性是相當複雜的，
04:30
but dinner is a reality that we all very much understand.
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但晚餐對我們來說是比較能掌握的部分，
04:33
So let's start there.
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所以讓我們從這兒開始。
04:35
There's been a lot of movement recently in greening our food systems.
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最近，針對綠化我們的飲食系統有相當大的進展。
04:38
Dan Barber and Alice Waters
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Dan Barber 和 Alice Waters
04:40
are leading passionately the green food Delicious Revolution.
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正在熱烈地提倡一種美味綠色食物革命。
04:43
But green foods often represent
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但是綠色食物常常會代表一種
04:45
a way for us to disregard
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我們忽視了
04:47
the responsibility as eaters.
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身為飲食者的責任。
04:49
Just because it comes from a green source
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即使它來自於綠色資源，
04:51
doesn't mean we can treat it with disregard on the plate.
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並不代表我們可以隨便將它放到餐盤上。
04:55
We have eco-friendly shrimp.
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我們有環保蝦。
04:57
We can make them; we have that technology.
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我們有技術可以生產環保蝦。
04:59
But we can never have any eco-friendly all-you-can-eat shrimp buffet.
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但是不可能出現那種提供環保蝦吃到飽自助餐廳。
05:03
It doesn't work.
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這是不可行的。
05:05
Heart-healthy dinner is a very important part
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有益心臟健康的晚餐，
05:08
of restorative seafood.
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是恢復性海鮮重要的一部份。
05:10
While we try to manage declining marine populations,
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正當我們試著去控制海洋生物數量減少的問題時，
05:13
the media's recommending increased consumption of seafood.
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媒體還在建議大家多吃海鮮。
05:16
Studies say that tens of thousands
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各種研究告訴大家，
05:18
of American grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers and fathers
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成千上萬的美國祖父母和父母們，
05:20
might be around for another birthday
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可能可以活得更久，
05:22
if we included more seafood.
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只要我們多吃海鮮。
05:24
That's a reward I am not willing to pass up.
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這是我不想錯過的好事。
05:27
But it's not all about the seafood.
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但是這不單只是和海鮮有關。
05:29
It's about the way that we look at our plates.
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這還關係著我們怎麼看待我們餐盤裡的食物。
05:32
As a chef, I realize the easiest thing for me to do
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身為一個廚師，對我來說最簡單的作法，
05:34
is reduce the portion sizes on my plate.
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就是減少餐盤裡面食物的量。
05:37
A couple things happened.
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幾件事情會隨之而生。
05:39
I made more money.
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我會賺更多的錢。
05:41
People started buying appetizers and salads,
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人們開始購買開胃菜和沙拉，
05:43
because they knew they weren't going to fill up on the entrees alone.
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因為他們知道只有主菜是吃不飽的。
05:46
People spent more time engaging in their meals,
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人們會花更多時間在用餐上面，
05:48
engaging with each other over their meals.
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藉由用餐而和別人有更多交流。
05:51
People got, in short, more of what they came there for
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簡單來說，人們來這兒會得到比他們想要的還更多，
05:54
even though they got less protein.
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即使他們會攝取較少的蛋白質。
05:56
They got more calories over the course of a diversified meal.
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但他們在吃下各種餐點的過程中會獲得更多熱量。
05:59
They got healthier. I made more money.
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他們會更健康，我賺更多的錢。
06:01
This is great.
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真是太棒了。
06:03
Environmental consideration was served with every plate,
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每道菜在上桌之前都先評估過對環境的影響，
06:06
but it was served with a heaping mound
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同時，也考慮到許多
06:08
of consideration for human interests at the same time.
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關於人們利益的部份。
06:12
One of the other things we did
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我們所做的另外一件事是，
06:14
was begin to diversify the species that we served --
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將我們所提供的食材種類多樣化 --
06:17
small silverfish, anchovies, mackerel, sardines were uncommon.
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小銀魚、鯷魚、鯖魚、沙丁魚都很常見。
06:20
Shellfish, mussels, oysters,
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貝類、蚌類、牡蠣、
06:22
clams, tilapia, char -- these were the common species.
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蛤蠣、鯛魚、嘉魚 -- 這些都是常見的魚類。
06:25
We were directing tastes
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我們讓這些口味
06:27
towards more resilience, more restorative options.
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傾向比較有彈性、比較具有恢復性的選擇。
06:31
This is what we need to favor.
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這是我們應該偏好的選擇。
06:33
This is what the green list says.
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這才是綠色標示的意義。
06:35
But this is also how we can actually begin to restore our environment.
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這也是我們開始讓環境恢復的方法。
06:38
But what of those big predators,
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至於那些大型掠食者，
06:40
those fashionable species,
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那些很流行的魚類，
06:42
that green list tuna that I was talking about earlier?
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剛剛所提到在綠色標示中的金槍魚呢？
06:45
Well, if you must, I have a recipe for you.
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如果你一定要吃的話，我有一份食譜可以提供給你。
06:48
It pretty much works with any big fish in the ocean,
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它適用於各種海洋中的大魚，
06:50
so here we go.
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開始嚕。
06:52
Start with a 16-ounce portion of big fish.
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首先拿一隻16盎司的大魚。
06:55
Get a knife. Cut it into four portions.
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用刀將它切成四份。
06:58
Put it on four plates.
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分別放到四個盤子上。
07:00
Mound up those four plates with vegetables
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把四個盤子都裝滿蔬菜，
07:02
and then open up the very best bottle of Burgundy you have,
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然後開一瓶你現有最棒的勃艮第紅葡萄酒，
07:04
light the candles and celebrate it.
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點起蠟燭來慶祝。
07:07
Celebrate the opportunity you have to eat this.
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慶幸你有這個機會來吃它。
07:09
Invite your friends and neighbors over
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邀請你的朋友或鄰居來享用，
07:11
and repeat once a year,
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每年舉辦一次，
07:14
maybe.
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也許啦。
07:16
I expect a lot from food.
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我對食物的期待很多。
07:18
I expect health
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我期望健康，
07:20
and joy and family and community.
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期望家庭與社區的歡樂。
07:22
I expect that producing ingredients,
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我希望製作食材原料，
07:24
preparing dishes and eating meals
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準備餐盤和用餐這些事情，
07:27
is all part of the communion of human interests.
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都是人們共同利益的一部分。
07:30
I was lucky enough that my father was a fantastic cook.
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我很幸運，我的父親是一位很棒的廚師。
07:32
And he taught me very early on
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他很早就開始教導我
07:34
about the privilege that eating represents.
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飲食所代表的權利。
07:37
I remember well the meals of my childhood.
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我記得很清楚兒時用餐的內容。
07:39
They were reasonable portions of protein
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總是有適量的蛋白質搭配著
07:41
served with copious quantities of vegetables
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大量的蔬菜，
07:43
and small amounts of starch, usually rice.
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以及少量的澱粉，通常是米飯。
07:45
This is still how I largely eat today.
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這依然是我每天的主食。
07:48
I get sick when I go to steakhouses.
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每次去牛排館時，我就會不舒服。
07:51
I get the meat sweats.
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我會出現肉類盜汗症。
07:53
It's like a hangover from protein.
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那就像是蛋白質引起的宿醉，
07:55
It's disgusting.
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感覺很噁心。
07:58
But of all the dire news that you'll hear
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但是關於那些未來你將會聽見，
08:01
and that you have heard about the state of our oceans,
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以及你現在已經聽見那些海洋不好的消息，
08:03
I have the unfortunate burden of delivering to you
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我有責任讓大家知道，
08:05
possibly the very worst of it
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狀況可能會有多糟糕，
08:07
and that is this whole time
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也就是今天所說過的內容，
08:09
your mother was right.
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你的媽媽是正確的。
08:11
Eat your vegetables.
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多吃蔬菜吧。
08:14
It's pretty straightforward.
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就是這麼簡單。
08:16
So what are we looking for in a meal?
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那麼，我們在食物中找尋的是什麼？
08:18
Well for health, I'm looking for wholesome ingredients
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為了健康，我在找尋那些
08:21
that are good for my body.
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對我身體有益的健康成份。
08:23
For joy, I'm looking for butter and salt
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為了開心，我在找尋奶油、鹽、
08:25
and sexy things that make things taste less like penance.
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以及美味的東西，讓東西吃起來不會太糟糕。
08:28
For family, I'm looking for recipes
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為了家人，我在找尋合乎
08:31
that genuflect to my own personal histories.
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我個人經歷的食譜。
08:34
For community though, we start at the very beginning.
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為了社區，雖然我們已經開始努力了。
08:37
There's no escaping the fact
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事實上沒有例外，
08:39
that everything we eat has a global impact.
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我們所吃的每一樣東西都有全球性的影響。
08:41
So try and learn as best you can what that impact is
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所以，試著學習去了解這影響會是什麼，
08:43
and then take the first step to minimize it.
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然後開始試著去將它降到最低。
08:47
We've seen an image of our blue planet,
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我們已經看見我們這個藍色的地球，
08:49
our world bank.
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這個世界銀行的景象。
08:51
But it is more than just a repository of our resources;
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但它不僅是我們自己的資源儲藏室;
08:54
it's also the global geography
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它也是全球在進行
08:57
of the communion we call dinner.
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食物交流的地方。
09:00
So if we all take only what we need,
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所以如果我們只拿取我們所需要的部份，
09:02
then we can begin to share the rest,
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我們就可以將剩餘的和大家分享，
09:05
we can begin to celebrate,
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我們可以開始去慶祝，
09:07
we can begin to restore.
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資源也將得以恢復。
09:09
We need to savor vegetables.
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我們要多吃蔬菜，
09:11
We need to savor smaller portions of seafood.
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我們要少吃一點海鮮。
09:14
And we need to save dinner.
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我們必須將食物節省下來。
09:16
Thank you.
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謝謝大家。
09:18
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Barton Seaver - ChefBarton Seaver is an advocate of sustainable seafood and a chef in Washington DC. His work tells the story of our common resources through the communion we all share – dinner.
Why you should listen
Barton Seaver has been at the helm of some of Washington, DC’s most acclaimed restaurants. He brought the idea of sustainable seafood to DC at Hook restaurant in Georgetown. After Hook, he opened Blue Ridge restaurant, where he was named as Esquire’s 2009 Chef of the Year.
His focus now is on larger issues of ocean sustainability as it relates to eating. He was recently named a Fellow with the Blue Ocean Institute, to help link the environmental community with real-life, delicious applications of an eco-friendly ethic. He works with the Ocean Now program at the National Geographic Society to influence the practices of large corporations and consumers alike toward a more responsible and sustainable sourcing ethic. Barton is an appointed member of the Mayor's Council on Nutrition in Washington, DC, where he is helping to craft a wellness policy for District residents.
His new cookbook is For Cod and Country: Simple, Delicious, Sustainable Cooking >>
Barton Seaver | Speaker | TED.com