TEDGlobal 2010
Tim Jackson: An economic reality check
Filmed:
Readability: 4.6
1,082,826 views
As the world faces recession, climate change, inequity and more, Tim Jackson delivers a piercing challenge to established economic principles, explaining how we might stop feeding the crises and start investing in our future.
Tim Jackson - Economist
Tim Jackson is a British ecological economist and professor for sustainable development at the University of Surrey. He is the author of "Prosperity without Growth" and director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity. Full bio
Tim Jackson is a British ecological economist and professor for sustainable development at the University of Surrey. He is the author of "Prosperity without Growth" and director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I want to talk to you today about prosperity,
0
0
3000
00:18
about our hopes
1
3000
2000
00:20
for a shared and lasting prosperity.
2
5000
3000
00:23
And not just us,
3
8000
2000
00:25
but the two billion people worldwide
4
10000
2000
00:27
who are still chronically undernourished.
5
12000
3000
00:30
And hope actually is at the heart of this.
6
15000
3000
00:33
In fact, the Latin word for hope
7
18000
2000
00:35
is at the heart of the word prosperity.
8
20000
2000
00:37
"Pro-speras," "speras," hope --
9
22000
3000
00:40
in accordance with our hopes and expectations.
10
25000
3000
00:43
The irony is, though,
11
28000
2000
00:45
that we have cashed-out prosperity
12
30000
3000
00:48
almost literally in terms of money and economic growth.
13
33000
3000
00:51
And we've grown our economies so much
14
36000
2000
00:53
that we now stand
15
38000
2000
00:55
in a real danger
16
40000
2000
00:57
of undermining hope --
17
42000
3000
01:00
running down resources, cutting down rainforests,
18
45000
3000
01:03
spilling oil into the Gulf of Mexico,
19
48000
3000
01:06
changing the climate --
20
51000
2000
01:08
and the only thing that has actually
21
53000
2000
01:10
remotely slowed down the relentless rise
22
55000
2000
01:12
of carbon emissions over the last two to three decades
23
57000
3000
01:15
is recession.
24
60000
2000
01:17
And recession, of course,
25
62000
2000
01:19
isn't exactly a recipe for hope either,
26
64000
2000
01:21
as we're busy finding out.
27
66000
2000
01:23
So we're caught in a kind of trap.
28
68000
2000
01:25
It's a dilemma, a dilemma of growth.
29
70000
2000
01:27
We can't live with it; we can't live without it.
30
72000
2000
01:29
Trash the system or crash the planet --
31
74000
3000
01:32
it's a tough choice; it isn't much of a choice.
32
77000
3000
01:35
And our best avenue of escape from this actually
33
80000
3000
01:38
is a kind of blind faith
34
83000
3000
01:41
in our own cleverness and technology and efficiency
35
86000
3000
01:44
and doing things more efficiently.
36
89000
2000
01:46
Now I haven't got anything against efficiency.
37
91000
2000
01:48
And I think we are a clever species sometimes.
38
93000
3000
01:52
But I think we should also just check the numbers,
39
97000
3000
01:55
take a reality check here.
40
100000
2000
01:57
So I want you to imagine a world,
41
102000
2000
01:59
in 2050, of around nine billion people,
42
104000
3000
02:02
all aspiring to Western incomes,
43
107000
2000
02:04
Western lifestyles.
44
109000
3000
02:07
And I want to ask the question --
45
112000
2000
02:09
and we'll give them that two percent hike in income, in salary each year as well,
46
114000
3000
02:12
because we believe in growth.
47
117000
2000
02:14
And I want to ask the question:
48
119000
2000
02:16
how far and how fast would be have to move?
49
121000
3000
02:19
How clever would we have to be?
50
124000
2000
02:21
How much technology would we need in this world
51
126000
2000
02:23
to deliver our carbon targets?
52
128000
2000
02:25
And here in my chart --
53
130000
2000
02:27
on the left-hand side is where we are now.
54
132000
3000
02:30
This is the carbon intensity of economic growth
55
135000
2000
02:32
in the economy at the moment.
56
137000
2000
02:34
It's around about 770 grams of carbon.
57
139000
3000
02:37
In the world I describe to you,
58
142000
2000
02:39
we have to be right over here at the right-hand side
59
144000
2000
02:41
at six grams of carbon.
60
146000
2000
02:43
It's a 130-fold improvement,
61
148000
2000
02:45
and that is 10 times further and faster
62
150000
2000
02:47
than anything we've ever achieved in industrial history.
63
152000
3000
02:50
Maybe we can do it, maybe it's possible -- who knows?
64
155000
2000
02:52
Maybe we can even go further
65
157000
2000
02:54
and get an economy that pulls carbon out of the atmosphere,
66
159000
3000
02:57
which is what we're going to need to be doing
67
162000
2000
02:59
by the end of the century.
68
164000
2000
03:01
But shouldn't we just check first
69
166000
3000
03:04
that the economic system that we have
70
169000
3000
03:07
is remotely capable of delivering
71
172000
2000
03:09
this kind of improvement?
72
174000
2000
03:11
So I want to just spend a couple of minutes on system dynamics.
73
176000
3000
03:14
It's a bit complex, and I apologize for that.
74
179000
2000
03:16
What I'll try and do, is I'll try and paraphrase it
75
181000
2000
03:18
is sort of human terms.
76
183000
2000
03:20
So it looks a little bit like this.
77
185000
3000
03:23
Firms produce goods for households -- that's us --
78
188000
2000
03:25
and provide us with incomes,
79
190000
2000
03:27
and that's even better, because we can spend those incomes
80
192000
3000
03:30
on more goods and services.
81
195000
2000
03:32
That's called the circular flow of the economy.
82
197000
3000
03:35
It looks harmless enough.
83
200000
2000
03:37
I just want to highlight one key feature of this system,
84
202000
2000
03:39
which is the role of investment.
85
204000
2000
03:41
Now investment constitutes
86
206000
2000
03:43
only about a fifth of the national income
87
208000
2000
03:45
in most modern economies,
88
210000
2000
03:47
but it plays an absolutely vital role.
89
212000
2000
03:49
And what it does essentially
90
214000
2000
03:51
is to stimulate further consumption growth.
91
216000
3000
03:54
It does this in a couple of ways --
92
219000
2000
03:56
chasing productivity,
93
221000
2000
03:58
which drives down prices and encourages us to buy more stuff.
94
223000
3000
04:01
But I want to concentrate
95
226000
2000
04:03
on the role of investment
96
228000
2000
04:05
in seeking out novelty,
97
230000
2000
04:07
the production and consumption of novelty.
98
232000
3000
04:10
Joseph Schumpeter called this
99
235000
2000
04:12
"the process of creative destruction."
100
237000
3000
04:15
It's a process of the production and reproduction of novelty,
101
240000
2000
04:17
continually chasing expanding consumer markets,
102
242000
3000
04:20
consumer goods, new consumer goods.
103
245000
2000
04:22
And this, this is where it gets interesting,
104
247000
2000
04:24
because it turns out that human beings
105
249000
3000
04:27
have something of an appetite for novelty.
106
252000
3000
04:30
We love new stuff --
107
255000
2000
04:32
new material stuff for sure --
108
257000
2000
04:34
but also new ideas, new adventures,
109
259000
2000
04:36
new experiences.
110
261000
2000
04:38
But the materiality matters too,
111
263000
2000
04:40
because in every society
112
265000
3000
04:43
that anthropologists have looked at,
113
268000
2000
04:45
material stuff
114
270000
2000
04:47
operates as a kind of language --
115
272000
2000
04:49
a language of goods,
116
274000
2000
04:51
a symbolic language
117
276000
2000
04:53
that we use to tell each other stories --
118
278000
2000
04:55
stories, for example,
119
280000
2000
04:57
about how important we are.
120
282000
2000
04:59
Status-driven, conspicuous consumption
121
284000
3000
05:02
thrives from the language
122
287000
3000
05:05
of novelty.
123
290000
2000
05:07
And here, all of a sudden,
124
292000
2000
05:09
we have a system
125
294000
2000
05:11
that is locking economic structure with social logic --
126
296000
3000
05:14
the economic institutions, and who we are as people, locked together
127
299000
3000
05:17
to drive an engine of growth.
128
302000
3000
05:20
And this engine is not just economic value;
129
305000
2000
05:22
it is pulling material resources
130
307000
3000
05:25
relentlessly through the system,
131
310000
3000
05:28
driven by our own insatiable appetites,
132
313000
3000
05:31
driven in fact by a sense of anxiety.
133
316000
3000
05:34
Adam Smith, 200 years ago,
134
319000
2000
05:36
spoke about our desire
135
321000
2000
05:38
for a life without shame.
136
323000
2000
05:40
A life without shame:
137
325000
2000
05:42
in his day, what that meant was a linen shirt,
138
327000
3000
05:45
and today, well, you still need the shirt,
139
330000
2000
05:47
but you need the hybrid car,
140
332000
3000
05:50
the HDTV, two holidays a year in the sun,
141
335000
3000
05:53
the netbook and iPad, the list goes on --
142
338000
3000
05:56
an almost inexhaustible supply of goods,
143
341000
2000
05:58
driven by this anxiety.
144
343000
2000
06:00
And even if we don't want them,
145
345000
2000
06:02
we need to buy them,
146
347000
2000
06:04
because, if we don't buy them, the system crashes.
147
349000
2000
06:06
And to stop it crashing
148
351000
2000
06:08
over the last two to three decades,
149
353000
2000
06:10
we've expanded the money supply,
150
355000
2000
06:12
expanded credit and debt,
151
357000
2000
06:14
so that people can keep buying stuff.
152
359000
2000
06:16
And of course, that expansion was deeply implicated in the crisis.
153
361000
3000
06:19
But this -- I just want to show you some data here.
154
364000
2000
06:21
This is what it looks like, essentially,
155
366000
2000
06:23
this credit and debt system, just for the U.K.
156
368000
2000
06:25
This was the last 15 years before the crash,
157
370000
3000
06:28
and you can see there, consumer debt rose dramatically.
158
373000
3000
06:31
It was above the GDP for three years in a row
159
376000
2000
06:33
just before the crisis.
160
378000
2000
06:35
And in the mean time, personal savings absolutely plummeted.
161
380000
3000
06:38
The savings ratio, net savings,
162
383000
2000
06:40
were below zero in the middle of 2008,
163
385000
2000
06:42
just before the crash.
164
387000
2000
06:44
This is people expanding debt, drawing down their savings,
165
389000
3000
06:47
just to stay in the game.
166
392000
3000
06:50
This is a strange, rather perverse, story,
167
395000
3000
06:53
just to put it in very simple terms.
168
398000
2000
06:55
It's a story about us, people,
169
400000
3000
06:59
being persuaded
170
404000
2000
07:01
to spend money we don't have
171
406000
2000
07:03
on things we don't need
172
408000
2000
07:05
to create impressions that won't last
173
410000
2000
07:07
on people we don't care about.
174
412000
2000
07:09
(Laughter)
175
414000
2000
07:11
(Applause)
176
416000
4000
07:15
But before we consign ourselves to despair,
177
420000
3000
07:18
maybe we should just go back and say, "Did we get this right?
178
423000
2000
07:20
Is this really how people are?
179
425000
2000
07:22
Is this really how economies behave?"
180
427000
2000
07:24
And almost straightaway
181
429000
2000
07:26
we actually run up against a couple of anomalies.
182
431000
3000
07:29
The first one is in the crisis itself.
183
434000
2000
07:31
In the crisis, in the recession, what do people want to do?
184
436000
3000
07:34
They want to hunker down, they want to look to the future.
185
439000
3000
07:37
They want to spend less and save more.
186
442000
3000
07:40
But saving is exactly the wrong thing to do
187
445000
2000
07:42
from the system point of view.
188
447000
2000
07:44
Keynes called this the "paradox of thrift" --
189
449000
2000
07:46
saving slows down recovery.
190
451000
2000
07:48
And politicians call on us continually
191
453000
3000
07:51
to draw down more debt,
192
456000
2000
07:53
to draw down our own savings even further,
193
458000
2000
07:55
just so that we can get the show back on the road,
194
460000
2000
07:57
so we can keep this growth-based economy going.
195
462000
2000
07:59
It's an anomaly,
196
464000
2000
08:01
it's a place where the system actually is at odds
197
466000
2000
08:03
with who we are as people.
198
468000
3000
08:06
Here's another one -- completely different one:
199
471000
2000
08:08
Why is it
200
473000
2000
08:10
that we don't do the blindingly obvious things we should do
201
475000
2000
08:12
to combat climate change,
202
477000
2000
08:14
very, very simple things
203
479000
2000
08:16
like buying energy-efficient appliances,
204
481000
2000
08:18
putting in efficient lights, turning the lights off occasionally,
205
483000
2000
08:20
insulating our homes?
206
485000
2000
08:22
These things save carbon, they save energy,
207
487000
2000
08:24
they save us money.
208
489000
3000
08:27
So is it that, though they make perfect economic sense,
209
492000
3000
08:30
we don't do them?
210
495000
2000
08:32
Well, I had my own personal insight into this
211
497000
2000
08:34
a few years ago.
212
499000
2000
08:36
It was a Sunday evening, Sunday afternoon,
213
501000
2000
08:38
and it was just after --
214
503000
2000
08:40
actually, to be honest, too long after --
215
505000
3000
08:43
we had moved into a new house.
216
508000
2000
08:45
And I had finally got around to doing some draft stripping,
217
510000
3000
08:48
installing insulation around the windows and doors
218
513000
2000
08:50
to keep out the drafts.
219
515000
2000
08:52
And my, then, five year-old daughter
220
517000
3000
08:55
was helping me in the way that five year-olds do.
221
520000
3000
08:58
And we'd been doing this for a while,
222
523000
3000
09:01
when she turned to me very solemnly and said,
223
526000
3000
09:05
"Will this really keep out the giraffes?"
224
530000
3000
09:08
(Laughter)
225
533000
2000
09:10
"Here they are, the giraffes."
226
535000
2000
09:12
You can hear the five-year-old mind working.
227
537000
2000
09:14
These ones, interestingly, are 400 miles north of here
228
539000
3000
09:17
outside Barrow-in-Furness in Cumbria.
229
542000
3000
09:20
Goodness knows what they make of the Lake District weather.
230
545000
3000
09:23
But actually that childish misrepresentation
231
548000
3000
09:26
stuck with me,
232
551000
2000
09:28
because it suddenly became clear to me
233
553000
3000
09:31
why we don't do the blindingly obvious things.
234
556000
2000
09:33
We're too busy keeping out the giraffes --
235
558000
2000
09:35
putting the kids on the bus in the morning,
236
560000
2000
09:37
getting ourselves to work on time,
237
562000
3000
09:40
surviving email overload
238
565000
2000
09:42
and shop floor politics,
239
567000
2000
09:44
foraging for groceries, throwing together meals,
240
569000
3000
09:47
escaping for a couple of precious hours in the evening
241
572000
3000
09:50
into prime-time TV
242
575000
2000
09:52
or TED online,
243
577000
2000
09:54
getting from one end of the day to the other,
244
579000
3000
09:57
keeping out the giraffes.
245
582000
2000
09:59
(Laughter)
246
584000
2000
10:01
What is the objective?
247
586000
2000
10:03
"What is the objective of the consumer?"
248
588000
3000
10:06
Mary Douglas asked in an essay on poverty
249
591000
3000
10:09
written 35 years ago.
250
594000
2000
10:11
"It is," she said,
251
596000
3000
10:14
"to help create the social world
252
599000
3000
10:17
and find a credible place in it."
253
602000
3000
10:20
That is a deeply humanizing
254
605000
3000
10:23
vision of our lives,
255
608000
2000
10:25
and it's a completely different vision
256
610000
3000
10:28
than the one that lies at the heart
257
613000
3000
10:31
of this economic model.
258
616000
2000
10:33
So who are we?
259
618000
2000
10:35
Who are these people?
260
620000
3000
10:38
Are we these novelty-seeking, hedonistic,
261
623000
2000
10:40
selfish individuals?
262
625000
3000
10:43
Or might we actually occasionally be
263
628000
3000
10:46
something like the selfless altruist
264
631000
3000
10:49
depicted in Rembrandt's lovely, lovely sketch here?
265
634000
3000
10:52
Well psychology actually says
266
637000
2000
10:54
there is a tension --
267
639000
2000
10:56
a tension between self-regarding behaviors
268
641000
3000
10:59
and other regarding behaviors.
269
644000
2000
11:01
And these tensions have deep evolutionary roots,
270
646000
3000
11:04
so selfish behavior
271
649000
2000
11:06
is adaptive in certain circumstances --
272
651000
2000
11:08
fight or flight.
273
653000
2000
11:10
But other regarding behaviors
274
655000
2000
11:12
are essential to our evolution
275
657000
2000
11:14
as social beings.
276
659000
2000
11:16
And perhaps even more interesting from our point of view,
277
661000
2000
11:18
another tension between novelty-seeking behaviors
278
663000
3000
11:21
and tradition or conservation.
279
666000
3000
11:25
Novelty is adaptive when things are changing
280
670000
2000
11:27
and you need to adapt yourself.
281
672000
2000
11:29
Tradition is essential to lay down the stability
282
674000
3000
11:32
to raise families and form cohesive social groups.
283
677000
3000
11:35
So here, all of a sudden,
284
680000
2000
11:37
we're looking at a map of the human heart.
285
682000
3000
11:40
And it reveals to us, suddenly,
286
685000
3000
11:43
the crux of the matter.
287
688000
2000
11:45
What we've done is we've created economies.
288
690000
2000
11:47
We've created systems,
289
692000
2000
11:49
which systematically privilege, encourage,
290
694000
3000
11:52
one narrow quadrant
291
697000
2000
11:54
of the human soul
292
699000
2000
11:56
and left the others unregarded.
293
701000
3000
11:59
And in the same token, the solution becomes clear,
294
704000
3000
12:02
because this isn't, therefore,
295
707000
2000
12:04
about changing human nature.
296
709000
2000
12:06
It isn't, in fact, about curtailing possibilities.
297
711000
3000
12:09
It is about opening up.
298
714000
2000
12:11
It is about allowing ourselves the freedom
299
716000
2000
12:13
to become fully human,
300
718000
2000
12:15
recognizing the depth and the breadth
301
720000
2000
12:17
of the human psyche
302
722000
2000
12:19
and building institutions
303
724000
2000
12:21
to protect Rembrandt's fragile altruist within.
304
726000
4000
12:26
What does all this mean for economics?
305
731000
3000
12:29
What would economies look like
306
734000
2000
12:31
if we took that vision of human nature
307
736000
2000
12:33
at their heart
308
738000
2000
12:35
and stretched them
309
740000
2000
12:37
along these orthogonal dimensions
310
742000
2000
12:39
of the human psyche?
311
744000
2000
12:41
Well, it might look a little bit
312
746000
2000
12:43
like the 4,000 community-interest companies
313
748000
2000
12:45
that have sprung up in the U.K. over the last five years
314
750000
3000
12:48
and a similar rise in B corporations in the United States,
315
753000
3000
12:51
enterprises
316
756000
2000
12:53
that have ecological and social goals
317
758000
2000
12:55
written into their constitution
318
760000
2000
12:57
at their heart --
319
762000
2000
12:59
companies, in fact, like this one, Ecosia.
320
764000
3000
13:02
And I just want to, very quickly, show you this.
321
767000
2000
13:04
Ecosia is an Internet search engine.
322
769000
2000
13:06
Internet search engines work
323
771000
2000
13:08
by drawing revenues from sponsored links
324
773000
2000
13:10
that appear when you do a search.
325
775000
2000
13:12
And Ecosia works in pretty much the same way.
326
777000
3000
13:16
So we can do that here --
327
781000
2000
13:18
we can just put in a little search term.
328
783000
2000
13:20
There you go, Oxford, that's where we are. See what comes up.
329
785000
3000
13:23
The difference with Ecosia though
330
788000
2000
13:25
is that, in Ecosia's case,
331
790000
2000
13:27
it draws the revenues in the same way,
332
792000
3000
13:30
but it allocates
333
795000
2000
13:32
80 percent of those revenues
334
797000
3000
13:35
to a rainforest protection project in the Amazon.
335
800000
2000
13:37
And we're going to do it.
336
802000
2000
13:39
We're just going to click on Naturejobs.uk.
337
804000
2000
13:41
In case anyone out there is looking for a job in a recession,
338
806000
2000
13:43
that's the page to go to.
339
808000
2000
13:45
And what happened then was
340
810000
2000
13:47
the sponsor gave revenues to Ecosia,
341
812000
3000
13:50
and Ecosia is giving 80 percent of those revenues
342
815000
2000
13:52
to a rainforest protection project.
343
817000
2000
13:54
It's taking profits from one place
344
819000
2000
13:56
and allocating them
345
821000
2000
13:58
into the protection of ecological resources.
346
823000
2000
14:00
It's a different kind of enterprise
347
825000
2000
14:02
for a new economy.
348
827000
2000
14:04
It's a form, if you like,
349
829000
2000
14:06
of ecological altruism --
350
831000
2000
14:08
perhaps something along those lines. Maybe it's that.
351
833000
3000
14:11
Whatever it is,
352
836000
2000
14:13
whatever this new economy is,
353
838000
3000
14:16
what we need the economy to do, in fact,
354
841000
3000
14:19
is to put investment
355
844000
2000
14:21
back into the heart of the model,
356
846000
2000
14:23
to re-conceive investment.
357
848000
2000
14:25
Only now, investment
358
850000
2000
14:27
isn't going to be
359
852000
2000
14:29
about the relentless and mindless
360
854000
2000
14:31
pursuit of consumption growth.
361
856000
2000
14:33
Investment has to be a different beast.
362
858000
3000
14:36
Investment has to be,
363
861000
2000
14:38
in the new economy,
364
863000
2000
14:40
protecting and nurturing
365
865000
2000
14:42
the ecological assets on which our future depends.
366
867000
3000
14:45
It has to be about transition.
367
870000
2000
14:47
It has to be investing in low-carbon technologies
368
872000
2000
14:49
and infrastructures.
369
874000
2000
14:51
We have to invest, in fact,
370
876000
3000
14:54
in the idea of a meaningful prosperity,
371
879000
3000
14:57
providing capabilities
372
882000
3000
15:00
for people to flourish.
373
885000
3000
15:03
And of course, this task has material dimensions.
374
888000
2000
15:05
It would be nonsense to talk about people flourishing
375
890000
3000
15:08
if they didn't have food, clothing and shelter.
376
893000
2000
15:10
But it's also clear that prosperity goes beyond this.
377
895000
3000
15:13
It has social and psychological aims --
378
898000
3000
15:16
family, friendship,
379
901000
2000
15:18
commitments, society,
380
903000
2000
15:20
participating in the life of that society.
381
905000
3000
15:23
And this too
382
908000
2000
15:25
requires investment,
383
910000
3000
15:28
investment -- for example, in places --
384
913000
2000
15:30
places where we can connect,
385
915000
2000
15:32
places where we can participate,
386
917000
2000
15:34
shared spaces,
387
919000
2000
15:36
concert halls, gardens,
388
921000
2000
15:38
public parks,
389
923000
2000
15:40
libraries, museums, quiet centers,
390
925000
2000
15:42
places of joy and celebration,
391
927000
3000
15:45
places of tranquility and contemplation,
392
930000
3000
15:48
sites for the "cultivation
393
933000
2000
15:50
of a common citizenship,"
394
935000
3000
15:53
in Michael Sandel's lovely phrase.
395
938000
3000
15:56
An investment -- investment, after all, is just such a basic economic concept --
396
941000
4000
16:00
is nothing more nor less
397
945000
2000
16:02
than a relationship
398
947000
2000
16:04
between the present and the future,
399
949000
2000
16:06
a shared present and a common future.
400
951000
3000
16:09
And we need that relationship to reflect,
401
954000
2000
16:11
to reclaim hope.
402
956000
3000
16:15
So let me come back, with this sense of hope,
403
960000
3000
16:18
to the two billion people
404
963000
2000
16:20
still trying to live each day
405
965000
2000
16:22
on less than the price of a skinny latte
406
967000
3000
16:25
from the cafe next door.
407
970000
2000
16:27
What can we offer those people?
408
972000
2000
16:29
It's clear that we have a responsibility
409
974000
2000
16:31
to help lift them out of poverty.
410
976000
2000
16:33
It's clear that we have a responsibility
411
978000
2000
16:35
to make room for growth
412
980000
2000
16:37
where growth really matters in those poorest nations.
413
982000
3000
16:40
And it's also clear that we will never achieve that
414
985000
3000
16:43
unless we're capable of redefining
415
988000
3000
16:46
a meaningful sense of prosperity in the richer nations,
416
991000
3000
16:49
a prosperity that is more meaningful
417
994000
2000
16:51
and less materialistic
418
996000
2000
16:53
than the growth-based model.
419
998000
2000
16:55
So this is not just
420
1000000
2000
16:57
a Western post-materialist fantasy.
421
1002000
3000
17:00
In fact, an African philosopher wrote to me,
422
1005000
3000
17:03
when "Prosperity Without Growth" was published,
423
1008000
2000
17:05
pointing out the similarities
424
1010000
2000
17:07
between this view of prosperity
425
1012000
2000
17:09
and the traditional African concept of ubuntu.
426
1014000
3000
17:12
Ubuntu says, "I am
427
1017000
3000
17:15
because we are."
428
1020000
2000
17:17
Prosperity is a shared endeavor.
429
1022000
3000
17:20
Its roots are long and deep --
430
1025000
2000
17:22
its foundations, I've tried to show,
431
1027000
2000
17:24
exist already, inside each of us.
432
1029000
3000
17:27
So this is not about
433
1032000
2000
17:29
standing in the way of development.
434
1034000
2000
17:31
It's not about
435
1036000
2000
17:33
overthrowing capitalism.
436
1038000
2000
17:35
It's not about
437
1040000
2000
17:37
trying to change human nature.
438
1042000
2000
17:39
What we're doing here
439
1044000
2000
17:41
is we're taking a few simple steps
440
1046000
2000
17:43
towards an economics fit for purpose.
441
1048000
3000
17:46
And at the heart of that economics,
442
1051000
3000
17:49
we're placing a more credible,
443
1054000
2000
17:51
more robust,
444
1056000
2000
17:53
and more realistic vision
445
1058000
3000
17:56
of what it means to be human.
446
1061000
3000
17:59
Thank you very much.
447
1064000
2000
18:01
(Applause)
448
1066000
9000
18:10
Chris Anderson: While they're taking the podium away, just a quick question.
449
1075000
3000
18:13
First of all, economists aren't supposed to be inspiring,
450
1078000
3000
18:16
so you may need to work on the tone a little.
451
1081000
2000
18:18
(Laughter)
452
1083000
2000
18:20
Can you picture the politicians ever buying into this?
453
1085000
2000
18:22
I mean, can you picture
454
1087000
2000
18:24
a politician standing up in Britain and saying,
455
1089000
3000
18:27
"GDP fell two percent this year. Good news!
456
1092000
3000
18:30
We're actually all happier, and a country's more beautiful,
457
1095000
2000
18:32
and our lives are better."
458
1097000
2000
18:34
Tim Jackson: Well that's clearly not what you're doing.
459
1099000
2000
18:36
You're not making news out of things falling down.
460
1101000
2000
18:38
You're making news out of the things that tell you that we're flourishing.
461
1103000
3000
18:41
Can I picture politicians doing it?
462
1106000
2000
18:43
Actually, I already am seeing a little bit of it.
463
1108000
2000
18:45
When we first started this kind of work,
464
1110000
3000
18:48
politicians would stand up, treasury spokesmen would stand up,
465
1113000
2000
18:50
and accuse us of wanting to go back and live in caves.
466
1115000
3000
18:53
And actually in the period
467
1118000
2000
18:55
through which we've been working over the last 18 years --
468
1120000
2000
18:57
partly because of the financial crisis
469
1122000
2000
18:59
and a little bit of humility in the profession of economics --
470
1124000
3000
19:02
actually people are engaging in this issue
471
1127000
3000
19:05
in all sorts of countries around the world.
472
1130000
2000
19:07
CA: But is it mainly politicians who are going to have to get their act together,
473
1132000
3000
19:10
or is it going to be more just civil society and companies?
474
1135000
3000
19:13
TJ: It has to be companies. It has to be civil society.
475
1138000
3000
19:16
But it has to have political leadership.
476
1141000
3000
19:19
This is a kind of agenda,
477
1144000
2000
19:21
which actually politicians themselves
478
1146000
2000
19:23
are kind of caught in that dilemma,
479
1148000
2000
19:25
because they're hooked on the growth model themselves.
480
1150000
2000
19:27
But actually opening up the space
481
1152000
2000
19:29
to think about different ways of governing,
482
1154000
2000
19:31
different kinds of politics,
483
1156000
2000
19:33
and creating the space
484
1158000
2000
19:35
for civil society and businesses to operate differently --
485
1160000
2000
19:37
absolutely vital.
486
1162000
2000
19:39
CA: And if someone could convince you
487
1164000
2000
19:41
that we actually can make the -- what was it? --
488
1166000
2000
19:43
the 130-fold improvement in efficiency,
489
1168000
2000
19:45
of reduction of carbon footprint,
490
1170000
2000
19:47
would you then actually like that picture of economic growth
491
1172000
3000
19:50
into more knowledge-based goods?
492
1175000
2000
19:52
TJ: I would still want to know that you could do that
493
1177000
2000
19:54
and get below zero by the end of the century,
494
1179000
2000
19:56
in terms of taking carbon out of the atmosphere,
495
1181000
2000
19:58
and solve the problem of biodiversity
496
1183000
2000
20:00
and reduce the impact on land use
497
1185000
2000
20:02
and do something about the erosion of topsoils and the quality of water.
498
1187000
3000
20:05
If you can convince me we can do all that,
499
1190000
2000
20:07
then, yes, I would take the two percent.
500
1192000
3000
20:11
CA: Tim, thank you for a very important talk. Thank you.
501
1196000
3000
20:14
(Applause)
502
1199000
3000
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Tim Jackson - EconomistTim Jackson is a British ecological economist and professor for sustainable development at the University of Surrey. He is the author of "Prosperity without Growth" and director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity.
Why you should listen
Tim Jackson has been at the forefront of international debates about sustainable development for 30 years and has worked closely with the UK Government, the United Nations Environment Programme and numerous private companies and NGOs to bring social science research into sustainability. During five years at the Stockholm Environment Institute in the early 1990s, he pioneered the concept of preventative environmental management outlined in his 1996 book Material Concerns: Pollution, Profit and Quality of Life. He worked for over a decade pioneering alternative measures of economic progress, and he has written extensively about the meaning function of consumerism in modern society. For seven years, he served as economics commissioner on the UK government's Sustainable Development Commission and led its Redefining Prosperity programme.
He is the director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity, a multi-disciplinary, international research consortium which aims to understand the economic, social and political dimensions of sustainable prosperity. In 2016 he received the Hillary Laureate for exceptional mid-career Leadership.
In addition to his scientific work, Jackson is an award-winning professional playwright with numerous BBC radio-writing credits to his name.
Tim Jackson | Speaker | TED.com