TEDxGhent
Erin Marie Saltman: How young people join violent extremist groups -- and how to stop them
Erin Marie Saltman: Kako se mladi pridružuju nasilnim ekstremističkim skupinama i kako ih u tome spriječiti
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Nisu svi teroristi i ekstremisti prirodno nasilni sociopati; namjerno ih se regrutira i radikalizira u procesu koji se ne može jednostavno opisati. Erin Marie Saltman govori o čimbenicima poticanja i privlačenja koji ljude privlače u ekstremističke skupine te objašnjava inovativne načine sprječavanja radikalizacije, kao i suprotstavljanja istoj.
Erin Marie Saltman - Policy researcher
Dr. Erin Marie Saltman manages Facebook's counterterrorism and counter-extremism policy work for Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Full bio
Dr. Erin Marie Saltman manages Facebook's counterterrorism and counter-extremism policy work for Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So in 2011, I altered my name
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2011. godine promijenila sam ime
00:16
so that I could participate
in Far Right youth camp in Hungary.
in Far Right youth camp in Hungary.
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da bih se pridružila
desničarskom kampu mladih u Mađarskoj.
desničarskom kampu mladih u Mađarskoj.
00:20
I was doing a PhD looking at
youth political socialization --
youth political socialization --
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Radila sam na doktoratu
o političkoj socijalizaciji mladih...
o političkoj socijalizaciji mladih...
00:25
why young people were developing
political ideologies
political ideologies
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zašto mladi razvijaju političke ideologije
00:28
in a post-communist setting,
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u postkomunističkom okruženju,
00:30
and I saw that a lot
of young people I was talking to
of young people I was talking to
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i shvatila sam da se mnogi
mladi s kojima sam razgovarala
mladi s kojima sam razgovarala
00:33
were joining the Far Right,
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pridružuju radikalnoj desnici,
00:35
and this was astounding to me.
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što me zaprepastilo.
00:37
So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp
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Stoga sam se htjela uključiti u kamp
00:39
to get a better understanding
of why people were joining.
of why people were joining.
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kako bih razumjela zašto.
00:42
So a colleague enrolled me,
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Prijavila me kolegica,
00:44
and my last name sounds
a little bit too Jewish.
a little bit too Jewish.
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a moje prezime zvuči previše židovski.
00:47
So Erin got turned into Iréna,
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Tako je Erin postala Iréna,
00:50
and Saltman got turned into Sós,
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a Saltman Sós,
00:52
which means "salty" in Hungarian.
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što znači "slano" na mađarskom.
00:55
And in Hungarian,
your last name goes first,
your last name goes first,
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Na mađarskom se prezime
stavlja na prvo mjesto,
stavlja na prvo mjesto,
00:57
so my James Bond name
turned into "Salty Irena,"
turned into "Salty Irena,"
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tako da je moje ime u stilu Jamesa Bonda
postalo "Slana Irena",
postalo "Slana Irena",
01:02
which is not something
I would have naturally chosen for myself.
I would have naturally chosen for myself.
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što ne bih sama izabrala za sebe.
01:06
But going to this camp,
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Kada sam došla u kamp,
01:08
I was further shocked to realize
that it was actually really fun.
that it was actually really fun.
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dodatno me šokiralo to
što je zapravo bilo jako zabavno.
što je zapravo bilo jako zabavno.
01:13
They talked very little about politics.
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Vrlo se malo razgovaralo o politici.
01:15
It was mostly learning how to ride horses,
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Uglavnom se učilo jahanje,
01:18
shooting a bow and arrow,
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streličarstvo,
01:20
live music at night,
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bilo je žive glazbe navečer,
01:22
free food and alcohol,
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besplatne hrane i alkohola,
01:24
also some air-gun target practice
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pa učenje rukovanja zračnim pištoljem
01:26
using mainstream politicians'
faces as targets.
faces as targets.
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s licima poznatih političara kao metama.
01:30
And this seemed like a very,
actually, friendly, inclusive group
actually, friendly, inclusive group
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I ljudi su bili jako ljubazni
i tolerantni
i tolerantni
01:34
until you started talking or mentioning
anything to do with the Roma population,
anything to do with the Roma population,
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sve dok ne spomeneš Rome,
01:39
Jewish people or immigrants,
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Židove ili imigrante,
01:42
and then the discourse would become
very hate-based very quickly.
very hate-based very quickly.
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tu bi razgovor vrlo brzo skrenuo
u smjeru mržnje.
u smjeru mržnje.
01:46
So it led me into my work now,
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To me dovelo do današnjeg rada,
01:49
where we pose the question,
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u kojem postavljamo pitanje:
01:52
"Why do people join
violent extremist movements,
violent extremist movements,
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"Zašto se ljudi pridružuju
nasilnim ekstremističkim pokretima,
nasilnim ekstremističkim pokretima,
01:55
and how do we effectively
counter these processes?"
counter these processes?"
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i kako da učinkovito
suzbijemo te procese?"
suzbijemo te procese?"
01:58
In the aftermath of horrible
atrocities and attacks
atrocities and attacks
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Nakon svih strahota i napada
02:01
in places like Belgium, France,
but all over the world,
but all over the world,
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u Belgiji, Francuskoj i ostatku svijeta,
02:05
sometimes it's easier for us to think,
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ponekad nam je lakše razmišljati:
02:07
"Well, these must be sociopaths,
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"To su zasigurno sociopati,
02:09
these must be naturally
violent individuals.
violent individuals.
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to su prirodno nasilni pojedinci.
02:12
They must have something wrong
with their upbringing."
with their upbringing."
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Nešto nije bilo u redu
s njihovim odgojem."
s njihovim odgojem."
02:14
And what's really tragic
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A što je zaista tragično,
02:16
is that oftentimes there's no one profile.
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često se ne radi o jednom profilu ljudi.
02:19
Many people come
from educated backgrounds,
from educated backgrounds,
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Mnogi dolaze iz
obrazovanih sredina,
obrazovanih sredina,
02:22
different socioeconomic backgrounds,
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različitih društvenih
i ekonomskih sredina,
i ekonomskih sredina,
02:24
men and women, different ages,
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muškarci i žene, različitih dobi,
02:27
some with families, some single.
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jedni iz obitelji, drugi samci.
02:29
So why? What is this allure?
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Onda zašto? U čemu je čar?
02:32
And this is what
I want to talk you through,
I want to talk you through,
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I to je ono o čemu želim govoriti,
02:34
as well as how do we
challenge this in a modern era?
challenge this in a modern era?
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kao i o tome što možemo učiniti
da se tome danas suprotstavimo.
da se tome danas suprotstavimo.
02:38
We do know, through research,
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Istraživanja nam pokazuju
02:40
that there are quite a number
of different things
of different things
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da postoji cijeli niz čimbenika
02:42
that affect somebody's
process of radicalization,
process of radicalization,
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koji utječu na radikalizaciju osobe,
02:45
and we categorize these
into push and pull factors.
into push and pull factors.
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a koje kategoriziramo kao čimbenike
poticanja i privlačenja.
poticanja i privlačenja.
02:48
And these are pretty much similar
for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups
for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups
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I oni su otprilike isti kod
radikalno desnih, neonacista
radikalno desnih, neonacista
02:52
all the way to Islamist extremist
and terrorist groups.
and terrorist groups.
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pa sve do islamskih
ekstremističkih i terorističkih skupina.
ekstremističkih i terorističkih skupina.
02:55
And push factors are basically
what makes you vulnerable
what makes you vulnerable
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Čimbenici poticanja
čine vas osjetljivima
čine vas osjetljivima
02:59
to a process of radicalization,
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na postupak radikalizacije,
03:01
to joining a violent extremist group.
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pridruživanje
ekstremističkim skupinama.
ekstremističkim skupinama.
03:03
And these can be
a lot of different things,
a lot of different things,
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A to mogu biti različite stvari,
03:05
but roughly, a sense of alienation,
a sense of isolation,
a sense of isolation,
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ali uglavnom se svode
na osjećaj otuđivanja, izolacije,
na osjećaj otuđivanja, izolacije,
03:09
questioning your own identity,
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propitivanje vlastitog identiteta,
03:11
but also feeling that your in-group
is under attack,
is under attack,
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ali i osjećaj da je tvoja grupa napadnuta,
03:14
and your in group might be based
on a nationality or an ethnicity
on a nationality or an ethnicity
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a ta grupa može biti
vezana uz nacionalnost ili etnicitet
vezana uz nacionalnost ili etnicitet
03:18
or a religion,
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ili vjeru,
03:19
and feeling that larger powers around you
are doing nothing to help.
are doing nothing to help.
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te osjećaj da više sile koje te okružuju
ne čine ništa da bi pomogle.
ne čine ništa da bi pomogle.
03:24
Now, push factors alone
do not make you a violent extremist,
do not make you a violent extremist,
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Sami čimbenici poticanja
ne čine osobu nasilnim ekstremistom
ne čine osobu nasilnim ekstremistom
03:27
because if that were the fact,
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jer da je tomu tako,
03:28
those same factors would go
towards a group like the Roma population,
towards a group like the Roma population,
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jednaki čimbenici odnosili bi se
na romsku populaciju,
na romsku populaciju,
03:32
and they're not
a violently mobilized group.
a violently mobilized group.
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a oni nisu nasilno mobilizirana skupina.
03:35
So we have to look at the pull factors.
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Stoga treba pogledati
čimbenike privlačenja.
čimbenike privlačenja.
03:37
What are these violent
extremist organizations offering
extremist organizations offering
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Što te nasilne
ekstremističke organizacije nude,
ekstremističke organizacije nude,
03:40
that other groups are not offering?
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a da ostale skupine ne nude?
03:42
And actually, this is usually
very positive things,
very positive things,
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I zapravo se obično radi
o pozitivnim stvarima,
o pozitivnim stvarima,
03:45
very seemingly empowering things,
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naizgled osnažujućim stvarima,
03:47
such as brotherhood and sisterhood
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kao što su bratstva i sestrinstva
03:49
and a sense of belonging,
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i osjećaj pripadnosti,
03:51
as well as giving somebody
a spiritual purpose,
a spiritual purpose,
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kao i pružanje duhovnog smisla,
03:54
a divine purpose
to build a utopian society
to build a utopian society
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božanskog nauma da se izgradi
utopijsko društvo
utopijsko društvo
03:57
if their goals can be met,
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ako se njihovi ciljevi ispune,
03:59
but also a sense of empowerment
and adventure.
and adventure.
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ali i osjećaj osnaživanja i pustolovine.
04:02
When we look
at foreign terrorist fighters,
at foreign terrorist fighters,
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Kada pogledamo strane teroriste,
04:04
we see young men
with the wind in their hair
with the wind in their hair
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vidimo mladiće s vjetrom u kosi
04:07
out in the desert
and women going to join them
and women going to join them
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u pustinji kojima prilaze žene
04:09
to have nuptials out in the sunset.
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kako bi izrekli bračne zavjete
uz zalazak sunca.
uz zalazak sunca.
04:12
It's very romantic, and you become a hero.
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To je jako romantično i postajete junak.
04:16
For both men and women,
that's the propaganda being given.
that's the propaganda being given.
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I muškarcima i ženama
nudi se ta propaganda.
nudi se ta propaganda.
04:19
So what extremist groups are very good at
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Ekstremističke skupine vrlo su vješte
04:22
is taking a very complicated,
confusing, nuanced world
confusing, nuanced world
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u pretvaranju složenog,
zbunjujućeg, šarolikog svijeta
zbunjujućeg, šarolikog svijeta
04:27
and simplifying that world
into black and white,
into black and white,
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u pojednostavljen crno-bijeli svijet,
04:30
good and evil.
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u dobro i zlo.
04:31
And you become what is good,
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I vi postajete ono dobro
04:33
challenging what is evil.
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koje se odupire zlu.
04:36
So I want to talk a little bit
about ISIS, Daesh,
about ISIS, Daesh,
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Htjela bih ovdje spomenuti
Islamsku državu ili ISIL
Islamsku državu ili ISIL
04:40
because they have been a game changer
in how we look at these processes,
in how we look at these processes,
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jer oni mijenjaju naše stajalište
prema tim procesima,
prema tim procesima,
04:44
and through a lot of the material
and their tactics.
and their tactics.
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raznovrsnim materijalima i taktikama.
04:48
They're very much a modern movement.
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To je vrlo moderan pokret.
04:50
One of the aspects is the internet
and the usage of social media,
and the usage of social media,
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To je donekle zbog interneta
i upotrebe društvenih mreža,
i upotrebe društvenih mreža,
04:55
as we've all seen in headlines
tweeting and videos of beheadings.
tweeting and videos of beheadings.
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kao što smo vidjeli u naslovima
i tvitovima s videozapisima dekapitacija.
i tvitovima s videozapisima dekapitacija.
04:59
But the internet alone
does not radicalize you.
does not radicalize you.
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No sam internet nije ono
što vas čini radikalnim.
što vas čini radikalnim.
05:02
The internet is a tool.
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Internet je sredstvo.
05:03
You don't go online shopping for shoes
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Ne ideš kupiti cipele putem interneta
05:05
and accidentally become a jihadist.
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i slučajno tako postaneš džihadist.
05:07
However, what the Internet
does do is it is a catalyst.
does do is it is a catalyst.
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Međutim, internet jest katalizator.
05:11
It provides tools and scale and rapidity
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Omogućuje alate, širinu i brzinu
05:15
that doesn't exist elsewhere.
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kakve ne postoje drugdje.
05:16
And with ISIS, all of a sudden,
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Uz ISIL se odjedanput
05:19
this idea of a cloaked, dark figure
of a jihadist changed for us.
of a jihadist changed for us.
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promijenilo ono kako zamišljamo
ogrnutog, mračnog džihadista.
ogrnutog, mračnog džihadista.
05:24
All of a sudden,
we were in their kitchens.
we were in their kitchens.
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Odjedanput smo se našli
u njihovim kuhinjama.
u njihovim kuhinjama.
05:26
We saw what they were eating for dinner.
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Vidjeli smo što večeraju.
05:28
They were tweeting.
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Tvitali su.
05:29
We had foreign terrorist fighters
tweeting in their own languages.
tweeting in their own languages.
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Gledamo kako teroristi
tvitaju na svom jeziku.
tvitaju na svom jeziku.
05:33
We had women going out there
talking about their wedding day,
talking about their wedding day,
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Gledamo kako žene
pričaju o svom vjenčanju,
pričaju o svom vjenčanju,
05:36
about the births of their children.
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rođenju svoje djece.
05:37
We had gaming culture, all of a sudden,
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Odjedanput se pojavila kultura igara
05:39
and references
to Grand Theft Auto being made.
to Grand Theft Auto being made.
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i povezivanje s igrom Grand Theft Auto.
05:43
So all of a sudden, they were homey.
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Odjedanput postali su nam bliski.
05:45
They became human.
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Postali su ljudi.
05:47
And the problem
is that trying to counter it,
is that trying to counter it,
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A problem je što su
taj problem
taj problem
05:49
lots of governments
and social media companies
and social media companies
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mnoge vlade i društvene mreže
pokušale riješiti cenzurom.
05:51
just tried to censor.
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05:52
How do we get rid of terrorist content?
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Kako se riješiti terorističkog sadržaja?
05:54
And it became a cat-and-mouse game
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Postala je to igra mačke i miša
05:56
where we would see accounts taken down
and they'd just come back up,
and they'd just come back up,
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u kojima se računi brišu
i ponovno pojavljuju
i ponovno pojavljuju
05:59
and an arrogance around somebody
having a 25th account
having a 25th account
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uz bahatost koja prati nekog
tko otvara 25. račun
tko otvara 25. račun
06:02
and material that was
disseminated everywhere.
disseminated everywhere.
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i materijale koji su posvuda prošireni.
06:06
But we also saw a dangerous trend --
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Ali vidjeli smo i opasan trend...
06:08
violent extremists know the rules
and regulations of social media, too.
and regulations of social media, too.
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i nasilni ekstremisti znaju
pravila i propise društvenih mreža.
pravila i propise društvenih mreža.
06:13
So we would see a banal
conversation with a recruiter
conversation with a recruiter
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Pa smo tako vidjeli
banalan razgovor s regrutom
banalan razgovor s regrutom
06:17
start on a mainstream platform,
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na popularnoj platformi,
06:19
and at the point
at which that conversation
at which that conversation
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a u trenutku kada razgovor
06:21
was going to become illegal,
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treba postati nezakonit,
06:22
they would jump to a smaller,
less regulated,
less regulated,
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prebacili bi se na manju
06:25
more encrypted platform.
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šifriraniju platformu.
06:26
So all of a sudden, we couldn't
track where that conversation went.
track where that conversation went.
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Odjedanput više ne možemo
pratiti kamo razgovor vodi.
pratiti kamo razgovor vodi.
06:30
So this is a problem with censorship,
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To je problem s cenzurom,
06:32
which is why we need to develop
alternatives to censorship.
alternatives to censorship.
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zbog čega moramo razviti
alternative cenzuri.
alternative cenzuri.
06:36
ISIS is also a game-changer
because it's state-building.
because it's state-building.
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ISIL se razlikuje i po tome
što nastoji stvoriti državu.
što nastoji stvoriti državu.
06:39
It's not just recruiting combatants;
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Nije da samo regrutiraju borce;
06:41
it's trying to build a state.
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pokušavaju izgraditi državu.
06:43
And what that means is all of a sudden,
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To odjedanput znači
06:45
your recruitment model is much more broad.
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da regrutiraš šire mase.
06:47
You're not just trying to get fighters --
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Ne trebaju ti samo borci...
06:49
now you need architects, engineers,
accountants, hackers and women.
accountants, hackers and women.
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trebaju ti arhitekti, inženjeri,
računovođe, hakeri i žene.
računovođe, hakeri i žene.
06:53
We've actually seen
a huge increase of women going
a huge increase of women going
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Značajno raste broj žena koje odlaze
06:56
in the last 24, but especially 12 months.
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u zadnjih 24, ali posebno
zadnjih 12 mjeseci.
zadnjih 12 mjeseci.
06:59
Some countries, one in four
of the people going over to join
of the people going over to join
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U nekim zemljama jedna od četiri
osobe koje se pridružuju
osobe koje se pridružuju
07:02
are now women.
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sada su žene.
07:03
And so, this really changes
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To mijenja
07:05
who we're trying to counter
this process with.
this process with.
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kome se ovdje suprotstavljamo.
07:08
Now, not all doom and gloom.
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No nije sve tako crno.
07:10
So the rest I'd like to talk about
some of the positive things
some of the positive things
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Voljela bih do kraja govoriti
o nekim pozitivnim stvarima
o nekim pozitivnim stvarima
07:13
and the new innovation in trying
to prevent and counter violent extremism.
to prevent and counter violent extremism.
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i novim inovacijama u pokušaju
sprječavanja nasilnog ekstremizma.
sprječavanja nasilnog ekstremizma.
07:17
Preventing is very different
than countering,
than countering,
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Sprječavanje nije isto kao
suprotstavljanje,
suprotstavljanje,
07:19
and actually, you can think of it
in medical terms.
in medical terms.
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a to se može pojasniti
medicinskim pojmovima.
medicinskim pojmovima.
07:22
So preventative medicine is,
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Preventivni lijekovi
07:24
how do we make it
so you are naturally resilient
so you are naturally resilient
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čine vas prirodno otpornima
07:27
to this process of radicalization,
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na proces radikalizacije,
07:30
whereas that is going to be different
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što se razlikuje od situacije
07:31
if somebody is already showing
a symptom or a sign
a symptom or a sign
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kada netko već pokazuje
simptom ili znak
simptom ili znak
07:34
of belonging to a violent
extremist ideology.
extremist ideology.
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pripadnosti nasilnoj
ekstremističkoj ideologiji.
ekstremističkoj ideologiji.
07:37
And so in preventative measures,
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Kod preventivnih mjera
07:39
we're talking more
about really broad groups of people
about really broad groups of people
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mislimo na vrlo široke skupine ljudi
07:41
and exposure to ideas
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i izloženost idejama
07:43
to make them resilient.
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koje ih čine otpornima.
07:45
Whereas it's very different
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A velika je razlika
07:46
if somebody is starting to question
and agree with certain things online,
and agree with certain things online,
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kada netko tek počinje propitivati
neke stvari na internetu,
neke stvari na internetu,
i kada netko već ima tetovažu svastike
07:50
and it's also very different
if somebody already has a swastika tattoo
if somebody already has a swastika tattoo
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07:54
and is very much embedded within a group.
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i uklapa se u skupinu.
07:56
How do you reach them?
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Kako doprijeti do njih?
07:58
So I'd like to go through three examples
of each one of those levels
of each one of those levels
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Prikazala bih tri primjera
za svaku od tih razina
za svaku od tih razina
08:02
and talk you through
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i objasnila
08:03
what some of the new ways
of engaging with people are becoming.
of engaging with people are becoming.
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neke nove načine angažmana s ljudima.
08:07
One is "Extreme Dialogue,"
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Prvi je "ekstremni dijalog",
08:08
and it's an educational program
that we helped develop.
that we helped develop.
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to je obrazovni program
koji smo pomogli razviti.
koji smo pomogli razviti.
08:11
This one is from Canada,
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Dolazi iz Kanade
08:14
and it's meant to create dialogues
within a classroom setting,
within a classroom setting,
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i cilj mu je stvoriti dijalog u razredu,
08:18
using storytelling,
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koristeći prepričavanje
08:19
because violent extremism
can be very hard to try to explain,
can be very hard to try to explain,
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jer nasilni ekstremizam
zna biti teško objašnjiv,
zna biti teško objašnjiv,
08:23
especially to younger individuals.
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pogotovo mlađim pojedincima.
08:25
So we have a network of former extremists
and survivors of extremism
and survivors of extremism
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Imamo mrežu bivših ekstremista
i onih koji su preživjeli ekstremizam
i onih koji su preživjeli ekstremizam
08:29
that tell their stories through video
and create question-giving to classrooms,
and create question-giving to classrooms,
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koji kroz videozapise pričaju priče
i postavljaju pitanja
i postavljaju pitanja
08:33
to start a conversation about the topic.
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kojima se pokreće
razgovor o temi u razredu.
razgovor o temi u razredu.
08:35
These two examples show Christianne,
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Ova dva primjera prikazuju Christianne,
08:38
who lost her son,
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koja je izgubila sina
08:39
who radicalized and died
fighting for ISIS,
fighting for ISIS,
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koji je postao radikal
i poginuo za ISIL,
i poginuo za ISIL,
08:41
and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi
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te Daniela, bivšeg neonacista,
08:43
who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi,
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iznimno nasilnog neonacista,
08:45
and they pose questions about their lives
and where they're at and regret,
and where they're at and regret,
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i oni postavljaju pitanja o životu,
o tome gdje su sada i za čim žale,
o tome gdje su sada i za čim žale,
08:50
and force a classroom
to have a dialogue around it.
to have a dialogue around it.
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te potiču raspravu o tome u razredu.
08:53
Now, looking at that middle range
of individuals,
of individuals,
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Sada razmotrimo tu srednju razinu
pojedinaca,
pojedinaca,
08:56
actually, we need a lot
of civil society voices.
of civil society voices.
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tu nam treba puno
građanskih glasova.
građanskih glasova.
08:58
How do you interact with people
that are looking for information online,
that are looking for information online,
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Kako komunicirati s ljudima
koji traže informacije na internetu,
koji traže informacije na internetu,
09:02
that are starting to toy with an ideology,
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koji se počinju poigravati ideologijom,
09:04
that are doing those searching
identity questions?
identity questions?
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koji traže odgovore
na pitanja o identitetu?
na pitanja o identitetu?
09:07
How do we provide alternatives for that?
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Kako pružiti alternative za to?
09:09
And that's when we combine
large groups of civil society voices
large groups of civil society voices
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I tu moramo kombinirati
velike skupine građanskih udruga
velike skupine građanskih udruga
09:13
with creatives, techies,
app developers, artists, comedians,
app developers, artists, comedians,
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sastavljene od kreativaca, tehničara,
programera, umjetnika, komičara,
programera, umjetnika, komičara,
09:17
and we can create really specified content
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i možemo stvoriti konkretan sadržaj
09:20
and actually, online, disseminate it
to very strategic audiences.
to very strategic audiences.
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koji bi se strateški širio
na internetu.
na internetu.
09:24
So one example would be
creating a satirical video
creating a satirical video
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Na primjer, izradimo satiričan video
09:27
which makes fun of Islamophobia,
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koji ismijava islamofobe
09:30
and targeting it
to 15- to 20-year-olds online
to 15- to 20-year-olds online
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i koji je namijenjen osobama
od 15 do 20 godina na internetu
od 15 do 20 godina na internetu
09:34
that have an interest in white power music
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koje se zanimaju za nacističku glazbu
09:36
and live specifically in Manchester.
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i konkretno žive u Manchesteru.
09:38
We can use these marketing tools
to be very specific,
to be very specific,
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Takve promidžbene alate
možemo izraditi da budu konkretni
možemo izraditi da budu konkretni
09:42
so that we know
when somebody's viewing, watching
when somebody's viewing, watching
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i da znamo kada netko gleda
09:44
and engaging with that content,
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i postaje angažiran,
09:46
it's not just the average person,
it's not me or you --
it's not me or you --
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ne radi se o prosječnoj osobi,
o meni ili vama...
o meni ili vama...
09:48
it's a very specific audience
that we are looking to engage with.
that we are looking to engage with.
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radi se o konkretnoj publici
koju želimo angažirati.
koju želimo angažirati.
09:52
Even more downstream, we developed
a pilot program called "One to One,"
a pilot program called "One to One,"
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Još konkretnije, razvili smo
probni program "Jedan na jedan",
probni program "Jedan na jedan",
09:56
where we took former extremists
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u kojem bivše ekstremiste
09:58
and we had them reach out directly
to a group of labeled neofascists
to a group of labeled neofascists
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tražimo da se izravno obrate
skupini poznatih neofašista,
skupini poznatih neofašista,
10:02
as well as Islamist extremists,
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kao i islamističkim ekstremistima,
10:04
and put direct messages through Facebook
Messenger into their inbox, saying,
Messenger into their inbox, saying,
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te pošalju izravne poruke putem
Facebook Messengera, u kojima kažu:
Facebook Messengera, u kojima kažu:
10:08
"Hey, I see where you're going.
I've been there.
I've been there.
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"Hej, vidim kamo ideš.
Bio sam tamo.
Bio sam tamo.
10:10
If you want to talk, I'm here."
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Ako želiš razgovarati, tu sam."
10:12
Now, we kind of expected death threats
from this sort of interaction.
from this sort of interaction.
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Na neki smo način očekivali prijetnje
u takvoj vrsti komunikacije.
u takvoj vrsti komunikacije.
10:15
It's a little alarming to have
a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?"
a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?"
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Zvuči opasno kada ti bivši neonacist
kaže: "Hej, kako si?"
kaže: "Hej, kako si?"
10:19
But actually, we found
that around 60 percent
that around 60 percent
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Ali zapravo je oko 60 posto
10:22
of the people reached out to responded,
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ljudi kojima smo se obratili odgovorilo,
10:24
and of that, around another 60 percent
had sustained engagement,
had sustained engagement,
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i oko 60 posto od tih ljudi
reagiralo je na angažman,
reagiralo je na angažman,
10:28
meaning that they were
having conversations
having conversations
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odnosno razgovaralo se
10:30
with the hardest people to reach
about what they were going through,
about what they were going through,
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s ljudima do kojih je najteže doprijeti
o tome što im se događa,
o tome što im se događa,
10:34
planting seeds of doubt
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sijalo se sjeme sumnje
10:35
and giving them alternatives
for talking about these subjects,
for talking about these subjects,
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i davale su im se alternative
vezane uz te predmete,
vezane uz te predmete,
10:38
and that's really important.
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a to je jako važno.
10:41
So what we're trying to do
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Ono što pokušavamo postići
10:43
is actually bring
unlikely sectors to the table.
unlikely sectors to the table.
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jest dovesti neočekivano za stol.
10:46
We have amazing activists
all over the world,
all over the world,
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Imamo sjajne aktiviste diljem svijeta,
10:48
but oftentimes,
their messages are not strategic
their messages are not strategic
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ali njihove poruke često nisu strateške
10:50
or they don't actually reach
the audiences they want to reach.
the audiences they want to reach.
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ili ne dopiru do ljudi do kojih žele.
10:53
So we work with networks
of former extremists.
of former extremists.
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Zato radimo s mrežama bivših ekstremista.
10:56
We work with networks of young people
in different parts of the world.
in different parts of the world.
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Radimo s mrežama mladih
u različitim dijelovima svijeta.
u različitim dijelovima svijeta.
10:59
And we work with them
to bring the tech sector to the table
to bring the tech sector to the table
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I radimo tako da okupljamo tehničare,
11:02
with artists and creatives
and marketing expertise
and marketing expertise
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umjetnike, kreativce
s iskustvom u marketingu
s iskustvom u marketingu
11:05
so that we can actually have
a more robust and challenging of extremism
a more robust and challenging of extremism
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tako da još čvršće izazovemo ekstremizam
11:10
that works together.
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kroz međusobnu suradnju.
11:12
So I would say
that if you are in the audience
that if you are in the audience
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Ako ste sada u publici,
11:14
and you happen to be a graphic designer,
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a grafički ste dizajner,
11:17
a poet, a marketing expert,
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pjesnik, stručnjak za marketing,
11:19
somebody that works in PR,
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radite u odnosima s javnošću,
11:21
a comedian --
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komičar...
11:22
you might not think
that this is your sector,
that this is your sector,
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možda mislite da ovo nije vaš sektor,
11:25
but actually, the skills
that you have right now
that you have right now
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no zapravo vještine koje imate
11:27
might be exactly what is needed
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možda su upravo ono što nam treba
11:29
to help challenge extremism effectively.
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da se učinkovito
suprotstavimo ekstremizmu.
suprotstavimo ekstremizmu.
11:32
Thank you.
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Hvala.
11:33
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Erin Marie Saltman - Policy researcherDr. Erin Marie Saltman manages Facebook's counterterrorism and counter-extremism policy work for Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
Why you should listen
Dr. Erin Marie Saltman's background and expertise includes both Far Right and Islamist extremist processes of radicalization within a range of regional and socio-political contexts. Her research and publications have focused on the evolving nature of online extremism and terrorism, gender dynamics within violent extremist organizations and youth radicalization. Saltman has previously held senior research positions at Quilliam Foundation and the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, where she managed international programs. She has also worked with local activists, artists and techies to challenge violent extremism.
As Facebook's Counterterrorism Policy Manager based in London, Saltman regularly speaks with both governments and NGOs on issues related to how Facebook counters terrorism and violent extremism. She has also helped establish the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism, bringing together leading industry partners (Facebook, Google, Microsoft and Twitter) with smaller startups and tech companies to create cross-platform knowledge sharing, technology solutions and research.
Saltman remains a Research Fellow at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue. She is a graduate of Columbia University (BA) and University College London (MA and PhD). View her articles and publications here.
Erin Marie Saltman | Speaker | TED.com