TED2010
Christopher "moot" Poole: The case for anonymity online
Christopher "moot" Poole: Argumenti za anonimnost na mreži
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Osnivač stranice 4chan, kontroverznog, necenzuriranog Internetskog foruma sa slikama, opisuje njihovu supkulturu, neke od Internet "mema" koje su lansirali, i događaj kada su njihovi članovi uspjeli hakirati, vrlo javno i precizno, stranice jednog od velikih medija. Govor postavlja pitanja o moći -- i cijeni -- anonimnosti.
Christopher "moot" Poole - Founder, 4chan
Christopher "moot" Poole is founder of 4chan, an online imageboard whose anonymous denizens have spawned the web's most bewildering -- and influential -- subculture. Full bio
Christopher "moot" Poole is founder of 4chan, an online imageboard whose anonymous denizens have spawned the web's most bewildering -- and influential -- subculture. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:17
Tom Green: That's a 4chan thing.
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Tom Green: To je 4chan stvar.
00:19
These kids on the Internet, they have this group of kids
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Ta djeca na Internetu, imate tu skupinu djece
00:21
and they like to say funny words
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i oni vole koristiti čudne riječi
00:23
like "barrel roll."
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poput „kolut s cijevi“.
00:25
It's a video game move from "Star Fox."
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To je potez iz video igre "Star Fox".
00:27
"Star Fox 20"? (Assistant: "Star Fox 64.")
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"Star Fox 20"? (Pomoćnik: "Star Fox 64".)
00:30
Tom Green: Yeah. And they've been dogging me for a year.
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Tom Green: Da. I oni me proganjaju već godinu dana.
00:32
I got to tell you, it's driving me nuts, actually.
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Moram vam reći da me to zapravo izluđuje.
00:34
Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I scream,
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Katkada se probudim usred noći i vrištim,
00:37
"4chan!"
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"4chan!"
00:43
Christopher Poole: When I was 15,
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Christopher Poole: Kad sam imao 15 godina,
00:45
I found this website called Futaba Channel.
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pronašao sam Internet stranice Futaba Channel.
00:48
And it was a Japanese forum and imageboard.
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Bio je to japanski forum i panel sa slikama.
00:52
That format of forum, at that time,
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Takav oblik foruma, u to doba,
00:55
was not well-known outside of Japan.
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nije bio dobro poznat izvan Japana.
00:57
And so what I did is I took it, I translated it into English,
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Pa sam ga ja uzeo, preveo ga na engleski,
01:00
and I stuck it up for my friends to use.
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i postavio ga da ga moji prijatelji koriste.
01:03
Now, six and a half years later,
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Sada, šest i pol godina kasnije,
01:05
over seven million people are using it,
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preko 7 milijuna ljudi ga koristi,
01:07
contributing over 700,000 posts per day.
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pišući preko 700.000 postova dnevno.
01:10
And we've gone from one board
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Razvili smo se od jednog panela
01:12
to 48 boards.
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do 48 panela.
01:15
This is what it looks like.
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Evo kako to izgleda.
01:17
So, what's unique about the site
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Ono što je jedinstveno kod ovih stranica
01:19
is that it's anonymous,
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je to da su anonimne,
01:21
and it has no memory.
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i nemaju pamćenje.
01:23
There's no archive, there are no barriers, there's no registration.
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Ne postoji arhiva. Nema ograničenja. Nema registracije.
01:26
These things that we're used to with forums
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Sve to na što smo navikli kod foruma
01:28
don't exist on 4chan.
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ne postoji na stranicama 4chan.
01:30
And that's led to this
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I to rezultira diskusijama
01:32
discussion that's completely raw, completely unfiltered.
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koje su potpuno sirove, potpuno nefiltrirane.
01:37
What the site's known for,
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Stranica je poznata po tome,
01:39
because it has this environment,
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uslijed takvog okruženja,
01:41
is it's fostered the creation of a lot of
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da je odnjegovala nastanak mnogih
01:43
Internet phenomena, viral videos and whatnot, known as "memes."
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Internet fenomena, virusnih videa i drugog, poznatog kao „memi“.
01:46
Two of the largest memes that have come out of this site
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Dva najveća mema koja su proizišla s ovih stranica -
01:48
some of you might be familiar with are these LOLcats --
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neki od vas su možda upoznati s LOLmacama (LOLcats) --
01:51
just silly pictures of cats with text.
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luckastih slika mačaka s tekstom.
01:54
And this resonates with millions of people, apparently,
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I to dira neku žicu u ljudima, očito,
01:56
because there are tens of thousands of these,
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jer je nastalo na desetke tisuća tih mačaka,
01:58
and there is a whole blogging empire now
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i čitavo blogersko carstvo
02:00
dedicated to pictures like these.
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posvećeno slikama poput ovih.
02:03
And Rick Astley's kind of rebirth
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A i ponovno rođenje Ricka Astleya
02:06
these past two years ...
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u zadnje dvije godine ...
02:08
Rickroll was this bait and switch,
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Rickroll je bio taj mamac i zamka,
02:10
really simple, classic bait and switch.
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vrlo jednostavno, klasičan mamac i zamka.
02:12
Somebody says they're linking to something interesting,
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Netko kaže da pravi poveznicu na nešto zanimljivo,
02:15
and you get an '80s pop song. That's all it was.
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i dobijete pop pjesmu iz '80-tih. Samo to.
02:18
And it got big enough to the point where
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I to je postalo toliko veliko
02:20
there was a float last year at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade,
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da je na lanjskoj Macyjevoj paradi za Dan zahvalnosti postojala splav,
02:23
and Rick Astley pops out, and rickrolls
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i iskače Rick Astley i rickrolla
02:25
millions of people on television.
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na televiziji milijune ljudi.
02:27
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:30
There are thousands of memes that come out of the site.
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Na tisuće mema nastaju na stranicama.
02:32
There are a handful that have escaped into the mainstream,
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Neki su pobjegli u glavnu struju,
02:34
the ones I've just shown you,
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ti koje sam vam upravo pokazao,
02:36
but every day, every month,
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no svakoga dana, svakoga mjeseca,
02:39
people are producing thousands of these.
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ljudi stvaraju tisuće drugih.
02:43
So does a site like this have rules?
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No, imaju li stranice poput ovih neka pravila?
02:45
We do; they're the codified rules that I've come up with,
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Imamo; to su kodificirana pravila koja sam izmislio,
02:48
which are more-or-less ignored by the community.
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koja zajednica više-manje ignorira.
02:51
And so they've come up with their own set of rules,
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Pa su izmislili svoja vlastita pravila,
02:53
the "Rules of the Internet."
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„Pravila Interneta“.
02:55
And so there are three that I want to show you specifically.
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Postoje tri pravila koja vam želim posebno pokazati.
02:58
Rule one is you don't talk about /b/.
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Prvo pravilo je da ne pričate o /b/.
03:01
Two is you do not talk about /b/.
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Drugo je da ne pričate o /b/.
03:04
And this one's kind of interesting:
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A ovo je zanimljivo:
03:06
"If it exists, there is porn of it. No exceptions."
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"Ako postoji, netko je napravio pornić od toga. Bez izuzetaka".
03:09
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:11
And I will spare you that slide.
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I poštedjet ću vas toga slajda.
03:13
I assure you, it is very true.
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Uvjeravam vas, to je sasvim točno.
03:16
/b/ is the first board we started with,
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/b/ je prvi panel s kojim smo započeli,
03:19
and it is, in many ways,
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i on je, na mnogo načina,
03:21
the beating heart of the website.
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pulsirajuće srce sajta.
03:23
It is where a third of all the traffic is going.
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Ondje ide trećina prometa.
03:26
And /b/ is known for,
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A /b/ je poznat po,
03:28
more than anything,
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više od ičega drugoga,
03:30
not just the memes they've created, but the exploits.
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ne samo memima koje je stvorio, već i po upadima na stranice.
03:33
And Chris just touched on one of those a second ago,
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Chris je maločas naveo jedan od tih,
03:36
and that was the Time 100 poll.
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anketu Time-a 100.
03:39
So somebody at Time, at the magazine,
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Netko je u časopisu Time,
03:41
thought it would be fun to nominate me
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pomislio da bi bilo zgodno da me nominiraju
03:43
for this thing they did last year.
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za taj izbor prošle godine.
03:46
And so they placed me on it,
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Pa su me stavili na popis,
03:48
and the Internet got wind of it. My community
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i Internet je to doznao. Moja zajednica
03:51
decided they wanted me to win it.
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je odlučila da žele da ja pobijedim.
03:54
I didn't instruct them to do it; they just decided that that's what they wanted.
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Nisam ih uputio da to čine; jednostavno su zaključili da to žele.
03:57
And so, you know, 390 percent approval rating ain't so bad.
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I tako, znate, podrška od 390 posto i nije tako loša.
04:00
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:02
So they broke that poll.
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Tako su skršili tu anketu.
04:05
And I ended up on top.
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A ja sam završio na vrhu.
04:07
I ended up at this really fancy party.
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Završio sam na tom stvarno šminkerskom tulumu.
04:10
But that's not what's interesting about this.
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Ali nije to zanimljivo ovdje.
04:13
It's that they weren't putting me at the top of this list;
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Nisu oni mene stavili na vrh popisa;
04:16
they were actually --
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oni su zapravo --
04:18
it got so sophisticated to the point where they gamed
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postalo je toliko sofisticirano da su aranžirali
04:20
all of the top 21 places
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svih 21 prvih mjesta
04:23
to spell "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."
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da ispišu "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."
04:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:29
The amount of time and effort that went into that
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Količina vremena i napora uloženog u to
04:32
is absolutely incredible.
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je apsolutno nevjerojatna.
04:34
And "marble cake" is significant because
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A "marble cake" (mramorni kolač) je važan jer je to
04:36
it is the channel that this group called Anonymous organized.
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kanal kojeg je uspostavila skupina Anonymous.
04:39
Anonymous is this group of people
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Anonymous su skupina ljudi
04:42
that protested, very famously,
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koji su prosvjedovali protiv, slavno,
04:45
Scientology.
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Scijentologije.
04:47
The story is,
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Priča glasi da je
04:49
Scientology had this embarrassing video of Tom Cruise. It went up online.
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Scijentologija imala taj neugodni snimak Toma Cruisea. Završio je na mreži.
04:52
They got it taken offline and managed to piss off part of the Internet.
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Oni su ga skinuli s Interneta i uspjeli naljutiti dio Interneta.
04:55
And so these people, over 7,000 people,
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I tako su se ti ljudi, preko 7.000 ljudi,
04:58
less than one month later,
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manje od mjesec dana kasnije,
05:00
organized in a hundred cities around the globe and --
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organizirali u stotinu gradova širom kugle i --
05:02
this is L.A. --
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ovo je Los Angeles --
05:04
protested the Church of Scientology,
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prosvjedovali protiv Scijentološke crkve,
05:07
and they have continued to do so,
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i nastavili su to činiti,
05:09
now, two full years after the fact.
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sada, pune dvije godine nakon toga.
05:11
They are still protesting.
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Protestiraju i dalje.
05:13
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:20
So we've got this activist group that's this grassroots group
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Tako da imamo tu aktivističku skupinu sastavljenu od malih ljudi
05:23
that's come out of the site.
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koja je nastala na stranicama.
05:25
And last, I'm going to show you the example,
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A pokazat ću vam i primjer,
05:27
the story of Dusty the cat.
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priču o mačku Dustyju.
05:29
Dusty is the name that we've given to this cat.
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Dusty je ime koje smo dali ovom mačku.
05:32
This young man
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Ovaj je mladić
05:34
posted a video
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postavio video
05:36
of him abusing his cat on YouTube.
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na YouTube u kojem zlostavlja svog mačka.
05:39
And, you know, this didn't sit well with people,
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I, znate, to ljudima baš nije „sjelo“,
05:42
and so there was this outpouring of support
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i zato je provalila potpora
05:46
for people to do something about this.
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da se nešto učini u vezi toga.
05:50
So what they did is they -- I mean, they put CSI to shame here --
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Ono što su učinili – mislim osramotili su one iz C.S.I. --
05:53
the Internet detectives came out.
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Internet detektivi su izronili.
05:55
They matched, they found his MySpace.
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Uspoređivali su, otkrili njegov MySpace.
05:58
They took the YouTube video and they mashed everything in the video.
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Uzeli su YouTube video i ubacili sve u video.
06:01
Within 24 hours,
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U roku od 24 sata,
06:03
they had his name,
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saznali su njegovo ime.
06:05
and within 48 hours, he was arrested.
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I, u roku od 48 sati, bio je uhićen.
06:09
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
06:16
And so, what I think is really intriguing
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I tako, ono što mislim da je zaista zanimljivo
06:18
about a community like 4chan
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kod zajednice kakva je 4chan
06:20
is just that it's this open place.
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je to da je riječ o otvorenom mjestu.
06:22
As I said, it's raw, it's unfiltered.
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Kao što rekoh, sirovo i nefiltrirano.
06:24
And sites like it are kind of
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A takve stranice nekako
06:26
going the way of the dinosaur right now.
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kao da upravo idu putem dinosaura.
06:28
They're endangered because we're moving
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U opasnosti su jer se krećemo
06:30
towards social networking.
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prema društvenim mrežama.
06:32
We're moving towards persistent identity.
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Krećemo se prema trajnom identitetu.
06:34
We're moving towards,
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Mičemo se prema,
06:37
you know, a lack of privacy, really.
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znate, nedostatku privatnosti, zapravo.
06:39
We're sacrificing a lot of that, and I think in doing so,
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Žrtvujemo mnogo privatnosti, i čineći tako,
06:42
moving towards those things, we're losing something valuable.
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idući prema tome, mislim da gubimo nešto vrijedno.
06:45
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
06:47
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
06:55
Chris Anderson: Thank you.
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Chris Anderson: Hvala vam.
06:57
Got a couple questions for you.
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Imam par pitanja za vas.
06:59
But if I ask them, is the TED website going to go down?
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Ali ako pitam, hoće li TED stranice biti srušene?
07:02
CP: You're lucky that this is not
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CP: Sretni ste da se ovo
07:04
being streamed to them live right now.
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ne prenosi njima uživo.
07:06
CA: Well, you never know. Some of them --
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CA: No, nikad ne znate. Neki od njih --
07:08
we've got people in 75 countries out there watching.
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gledaju nas ljudi iz 75 zemalja.
07:11
Don't tell.
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Nemojte im reći.
07:14
But seriously,
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Ali ozbiljno,
07:16
this issue on anonymity is --
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ovo pitanje anonimnosti je --
07:18
I mean, you made the case there.
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mislim, izložili ste argumente ovdje.
07:20
But anonymity basically allows people to say anything,
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Ali anonimnost omogućava ljudima da kažu što god hoće.
07:23
all the rules gone.
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Nema nikakvih pravila.
07:25
You've had to wrestle with issues like child pornography.
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Morate se boriti sa stvarima poput dječje pornografije.
07:27
And I'm just curious whether you
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I zanima me da li
07:30
sometimes lie awake in the night
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nekad ležite noću budni
07:32
worrying that you've opened Pandora's box.
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brinući se da ste otvorili Pandorinu kutiju.
07:36
CP: Yes and no.
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CP: Da i ne.
07:38
I mean, for as much good
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Koliko god dobra
07:40
that kind of comes out of this environment,
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proizlazi iz tog okružja,
07:42
there is plenty of bad.
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ima i puno toga lošeg.
07:44
There are plenty of downsides.
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Ima puno nedostataka.
07:46
But I think that the greater good
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Ali mislim da postižemo veće dobro
07:49
is being served here by just allowing people --
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time što jednostavno dopuštamo ljudima --
07:51
there are very few places, now, where you can go
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ima vrlo malo mjesta gdje sada možete otići
07:54
and not have identity, to be completely anonymous
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i nemati identitet, biti potpuno anonimni
07:56
and say whatever you'd like.
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i reći što god želite.
07:58
And saying whatever you like, I think, is powerful.
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A govoriti što želite, mislim da je moćno.
08:01
Doing whatever you like is now crossing a line.
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Ono što prelazi granicu je raditi što god hoćemo.
08:03
But I think it's important to have these places.
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Ali mislim da je važno da imamo takva mjesta.
08:06
When I get emails, people say, "Thank you for giving me this place,
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Kad primam e-mailove, ljudi kažu: „Hvala na ovom mjestu,
08:09
this outlet, where I can come after work
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ovom kutku gdje mogu doći nakon posla
08:11
and be myself."
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i biti svoj".
08:13
CA: But words, saying things,
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CA: Ali riječi, govorenje,
08:17
you know, can be constructive; it can be really damaging.
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može biti konstruktivno; može biti i razorno.
08:20
And if you cut the link between what is said
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I ako uklonite vezu između onoga što je rečeno
08:23
and any attribution back to you,
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i vas koji ste to rekli,
08:25
I mean, surely there are huge risks with that.
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mislim, sigurno tu postoje veliki rizici.
08:28
CP: There are, certainly.
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CP: Postoje, svakako.
08:30
But --
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Ali --
08:32
CA: Tell me about what -- I mean, I think you asked the board
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CA: Recite mi što -- mislim, pitali ste svoj panel
08:35
what you might say at TED, right?
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o čemu da pričate na TED-u, zar ne.
08:37
CP: Yeah, I posted a thread
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CP: Da, postavio sam diskusiju
08:39
on Sunday.
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u nedjelju.
08:41
And within 24 hours,
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U roku od 24 sata,
08:43
it had over 12,000 responses.
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dobio sam preko 12.000 odgovora.
08:45
And the thing is,
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Stvar je u tome,
08:48
I didn't make it into that presentation
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nisam vam održao tu prezentaciju
08:50
because I can't read to you anything that they said, more or less.
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jer više-manje vam ne mogu pročitati ništa od onoga što su rekli.
08:52
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:54
99 percent of it is just,
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99 posto toga je samo,
08:57
would have been, you know, bleeped out.
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bilo bi, znate, zvučno cenzurirano.
08:59
But there were some good things that came out of that too.
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Ali i neke su dobre stvari proizišle iz toga.
09:01
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:03
Love and peace were mentioned.
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Spomenuti su ljubav i mir.
09:05
CA: Love and peace were mentioned,
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CA: Ljubav i mir,
09:07
kind of with quote marks around them, right?
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kao u navodnicima, zar ne?
09:09
CP: Cats and dogs were mentioned too.
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CP: Mačke i psi su također spomenuti.
09:11
CA: And that content is all off the board now.
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CA: I taj sadržaj je sada maknut s panela.
09:14
Right, it's gone? Or is it still up there?
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Je li tako? Ili je još gore?
09:16
CP: I stuck that thread so it lasted a few days.
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CP: Postavio sam tu diskusiju tako da traje nekoliko dana.
09:18
It went up to about 16,000 posts,
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Dosegnula je oko 16.000 postova,
09:20
and now it has been taken off.
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i sada je maknuta.
09:23
CA: Okay, well.
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CA: Dobro.
09:27
Now, I'm not sure I would have necessarily recommended
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Nisam siguran da bih nužno preporučio
09:29
everyone at TED to go and check it out anyway.
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svakome na TED-u da ode i ipak to provjeri.
09:33
Chris, you yourself? I mean, you're a figure of some intrigue.
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Chris, a vi? Mislim, vi ste osoba određene tajanstvenosti.
09:36
You've got this surprising
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Imate taj iznenađujući
09:38
semi-underground influence,
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utjecaj na polu-podzemlje,
09:41
but it's not making you a lot of money, yet.
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ali od toga ne zarađujete puno, još.
09:45
What's the commercial picture here?
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Koja je komercijalna ideja ovdje?
09:48
CP: The commercial picture is that there really isn't
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CP: Komercijalna ideja je ta da i nema
09:50
much of one, I guess.
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puno komercijalne ideje.
09:52
The site has adult content on it.
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Stranica ima i sadržaj za odrasle.
09:55
I mean, obviously, it's got some very offensive, obscene content on it,
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Mislim, očito, ima vrlo opscenog sadržaja gore,
09:57
just in terms of language alone.
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čak i kad govorimo samo o jeziku.
09:59
And when you've got that, you've pretty much sacrificed
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A kad to imate, uglavnom ste žrtvovali
10:02
any hope of making lots of money.
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svaku nadu da ćete puno zaraditi.
10:05
CA: But you still live at home, right?
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CA: Još uvijek živite kod kuće, zar ne?
10:08
CP: I actually moved out recently.
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CP: Nedavno sam se iselio.
10:10
CA: That's very cool.
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CA: To je dobro.
10:12
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
10:14
CP: I got out of Mom's, and I'm back in school right now.
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CP: Odselio sam od mame i vratio se u školu.
10:17
CA: But what conversations did you or do you
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CA: Kakve razgovore vodiš ili si vodio
10:19
have with your mother about 4chan?
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s mamom o stranicama 4chan?
10:22
CP: At first, very kind of pained,
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CP: Isprva, mučne,
10:24
awkward conversations.
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neugodne razgovore.
10:26
The content is not dinner table conversation in the least.
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Sadržaj ni najmanje nije za razgovor za stolom.
10:30
But my parents -- I think part of why
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Ali moji roditelji -- mislim da je dio razloga
10:33
they kind of are able to appreciate it
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zašto oni to mogu cijeniti
10:36
is because they don't understand it.
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taj što oni to ne razumiju.
10:38
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
10:41
CA: And they were probably pleased to see you
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CA: A vjerojatno su bili zadovoljni
10:44
on top of the Time poll.
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da te vide na vrhu Timeove ankete.
10:46
CP: Yeah. They still didn't know what to think of that though.
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CP: Da. Ali još uvijek ne znaju što da o tome misle.
10:49
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
10:51
CA: And so, in 10 years' time,
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CA: I tako, za 10 godina,
10:53
what do you picture yourself doing?
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kako se vidiš, što ćeš raditi?
10:56
CP: That's a good question.
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CP: Dobro pitanje.
10:58
As I said, I just went back to school,
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Kao što sam rekao, vratio sam se u školu,
11:00
and I am considering
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i razmišljam
11:02
majoring in urban studies
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studirati gradske studije,
11:04
and then going on to urban planning,
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a zatim ići u urbano planiranje,
11:06
kind of taking whatever I've learned from online communities
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iskoristiti sve što sam naučio od Internet zajednica
11:09
and trying to adapt that
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i pokušati to prilagoditi
11:11
to a physical community.
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fizičkim zajednicama.
11:14
CA: Chris, thank you. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for coming to TED.
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CA: Chris, hvala. Apsolutno fascinantno. Hvala što te došli na TED.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Christopher "moot" Poole - Founder, 4chanChristopher "moot" Poole is founder of 4chan, an online imageboard whose anonymous denizens have spawned the web's most bewildering -- and influential -- subculture.
Why you should listen
Since its inception in 2003, Christopher "moot" Poole's controversial imageboard, 4chan, has gained worldwide notoriety as a breeding ground for many of the most recognizable Internet "memes" (think LOLcats). It was also the source of a high-profile hack of a mainstream media website and at least one spirited -- if morally inscrutable -- activist campaign in the real world.
Despite the server-crippling traffic it attracts, this last major enclave of the untamed Internet terrifies advertisers, and moot struggles to keep it afloat. Though you might regard much of its content as obscene or just plain weird, it's become a fixture on the fringe of the mainstream -- and a cultural force all its own.
In January 2015 Poole stepped down from 4chan after eleven and a half years as its founding administrator.
Christopher "moot" Poole | Speaker | TED.com