TEDxBerlin
Peter Eigen: How to expose the corrupt
Peter Ejgen (Peter Eigen): Kako ogoliti korumpirane
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Neke od svetskih socijalnih problema koji najviše zbunjuju, tvrdi Peter Ejgen, moguće je pripisati sistematskoj, pervazivnoj vladinoj korupciji, koja ide ruku pod ruku sa korupcijom globalnih kompanija. Na konferenciji TEDxBerlin, Ejgen opisuje uzbudljivi kontranapad njegove organizacije Transparency International.
Peter Eigen - Founder, Transparency International
As a director of the World Bank in Nairobi, Peter Eigen saw firsthand how devastating corruption can be. He's founder of Transparency International, an NGO that works to persuade international companies not to bribe. Full bio
As a director of the World Bank in Nairobi, Peter Eigen saw firsthand how devastating corruption can be. He's founder of Transparency International, an NGO that works to persuade international companies not to bribe. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I am going to speak about corruption,
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Govoriću o korupciji,
00:17
but I would like to juxtapose
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ali bih voleo da, u isto vreme,
00:20
two different things.
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govorim od dve različite stvari.
00:22
One is the large global economy,
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Jedna je globalna ekonomija,
00:27
the large globalized economy,
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ogromna globalizovana ekonomija,
00:30
and the other one is the small, and very limited,
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a druga je mali, veoma ograničeni
00:33
capacity of our traditional governments
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kapacitet naših tradicionalnih vlada
00:37
and their international institutions
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i internacionalnih institucija
00:39
to govern, to shape, this economy.
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da vode, oblikuju, pomenutu ekonomiju.
00:43
Because there is this asymmetry,
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Zbog postojanja ove asimetrije,
00:48
which creates, basically,
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dolazi do, u suštini,
00:51
failing governance.
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neuspeha vlade.
00:53
Failing governance in many areas:
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Neuspeh vlade ogleda se
u mnogim oblastima:
u mnogim oblastima:
00:55
in the area of corruption and the area of destruction of the environment,
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u oblasti korupcije,
uništavanja životne sredine
uništavanja životne sredine
00:59
in the area of exploitation of women and children,
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u oblasti eksploatacije žena i dece,
01:02
in the area of climate change,
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u oblasti klimatskih promena,
01:06
in all the areas in which we really need
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u svim onim oblastima
u kojima nam zaista treba
u kojima nam zaista treba
01:09
a capacity to reintroduce
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kapacitet za ponovnim uvođenjem
01:14
the primacy of politics
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primarnosti politike
01:17
into the economy,
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u ekonomiju
01:19
which is operating in a worldwide arena.
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koja pokreće svet.
01:24
And I think corruption,
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Mislim da je korupcija
01:26
and the fight against corruption,
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i borba protiv korupcije,
01:28
and the impact of corruption,
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kao i uticaj korupcije,
01:30
is probably one of the most interesting ways
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jedan od najinteresantnijih načina
01:32
to illustrate what I mean
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da ilustrujem ono na šta mislim
01:34
with this failure of governance.
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kada kažem neuspeh vlade.
01:37
Let me talk about my own experience.
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Dozvolite mi da govorim
o sopstvenom iskustvu.
o sopstvenom iskustvu.
01:41
I used to work as the director
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Radio sam kao direktor
01:44
of the World Bank office in Nairobi
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kancelarije Svetske banke u Najrobiju
01:47
for East Africa.
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za istočnu Afriku.
01:49
At that time, I noticed
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U to vreme, sam primetio
01:51
that corruption, that grand corruption,
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da korupcija, ona velika korupcija,
01:54
that systematic corruption,
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sistematska korupcija
01:56
was undermining everything we were trying to do.
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potkopava sve naše napore.
02:00
And therefore, I began
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I stoga sam započeo
02:02
to not only try to protect
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ne samo zaštitu
02:05
the work of the World Bank,
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rada Svetske banke
02:07
our own projects, our own programs
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naših projekata i sopstvenih programa
02:09
against corruption,
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protiv korupcije,
02:11
but in general, I thought, "We need a system
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nego sam pomislio: "Treba nam sistem
02:14
to protect the people
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koji bi zaštitio ljude
02:16
in this part of the world
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u ovom delu sveta
02:18
from the ravages of corruption."
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od pustošenja korupcije".
02:21
And as soon as I started this work,
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Čim sam započeo ovaj posao
02:24
I received a memorandum from the World Bank,
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stigao mi je memorandum Svetske banke,
02:27
from the legal department first,
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prvo iz kadrovske službe,
02:29
in which they said, "You are not allowed to do this.
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u kom su mi rekli:
"Nemaš dozvolu da to radiš.
"Nemaš dozvolu da to radiš.
02:31
You are meddling in the internal affairs of our partner countries.
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Mešaš se u unutrašnje poslove
zemalja partnera.
zemalja partnera.
02:35
This is forbidden by the charter of the World Bank,
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To zabranjuje povelja Svetske banke,
02:38
so I want you to stop your doings."
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tako da prestani sa tim radnjama".
02:41
In the meantime, I was chairing
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U međuvremenu, predsedavao sam
02:43
donor meetings, for instance,
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donatorskim skupovima, na primer,
02:45
in which the various donors,
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na kojima su različiti donatori,
02:47
and many of them like to be in Nairobi --
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a mnogi od njih
su voleli da budu u Najrobiju -
su voleli da budu u Najrobiju -
02:50
it is true, it is one of the
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istina je, to je jedan
02:52
unsafest cities of the world,
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od najnebezbednijih gradova na svetu,
02:54
but they like to be there because the other cities
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ali su voleli da budu tu,
jer su drugi gradovi
jer su drugi gradovi
02:56
are even less comfortable.
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bili još neugodniji.
02:59
And in these donor meetings, I noticed
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I na ovim donatorskim sastancima,
primetio sam
primetio sam
03:01
that many of the worst projects --
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da mnogo loših projekata -
03:03
which were put forward
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koji su gurani u prvi plan
03:05
by our clients, by the governments,
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od strane naših klijenata, vlada,
03:07
by promoters,
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promotera,
03:09
many of them representing
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od kojih su mnogi bili
03:11
suppliers from the North --
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dobavljači sa severa -
03:13
that the worst projects
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dakle najgori projekti
03:15
were realized first.
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bili su prvi realizovani.
03:17
Let me give you an example:
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Dozvolite da vam dam primer
03:19
a huge power project,
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ogroman projekat elektrane,
03:21
300 million dollars,
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300 miliona dolara,
03:24
to be built smack into
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ugraditi pravo u
03:26
one of the most vulnerable, and one of the most beautiful,
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jednu od najranjivijih
i jednu od najlepših,
i jednu od najlepših,
03:29
areas of western Kenya.
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oblasti zapadne Kenije.
03:32
And we all noticed immediately
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I svi smo odmah zapazili
03:34
that this project had no economic benefits:
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da ovaj projekat
nema nikakvu ekonomsku dobit:
nema nikakvu ekonomsku dobit:
03:37
It had no clients, nobody would buy the electricity there,
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nije bilo klijenata,
niko ne bi kupovao struju tu,
niko ne bi kupovao struju tu,
03:41
nobody was interested in irrigation projects.
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nikoga nisu zanimali irigacioni projekti.
03:43
To the contrary, we knew that this project
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Naprotiv, znali smo da će ovaj projekat
03:46
would destroy the environment:
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uništiti životnu sredinu:
03:48
It would destroy riparian forests,
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uništiće obalske šume,
03:50
which were the basis for
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koje su osnov za
03:52
the survival of nomadic groups,
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preživljavanje nomadskih grupa,
03:54
the Samburu and the Turkana in this area.
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u ovoj oblasti, grupa Samburu i Turkana.
03:58
So everybody knew this is a, not a useless project,
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Svi smo znali da je ovo,
ne beskoristan projekat,
ne beskoristan projekat,
04:01
this is an absolute damaging, a terrible project --
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već totalno uništavajući
i užasan projekat -
i užasan projekat -
04:04
not to speak about the future indebtedness of the country
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da ne govorim
o budućoj prezaduženosti zemlje
o budućoj prezaduženosti zemlje
04:08
for these hundreds of millions of dollars,
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za ove stotine miliona dolara,
04:10
and the siphoning off
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i krađi
04:13
of the scarce resources of the economy
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oskudnih izvora ekonomije
04:15
from much more important activities
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namenjene mnogo bitnijim aktivnostima
04:18
like schools, like hospitals and so on.
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kao što su škole, bolnice i slično.
04:20
And yet, we all rejected this project,
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Dakle, svi smo odbili projekat,
04:23
none of the donors was willing
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ni jedan od donatora nije bio voljan
04:25
to have their name connected with it,
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da mu se ime poveže sa tim projektom,
04:28
and it was the first project to be implemented.
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a to je, ujedno,
bio i prvi projekat koji je implementiran.
bio i prvi projekat koji je implementiran.
04:30
The good projects, which we as a donor community
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Dobri projekti,
koje bismo mi kao zajednica donatora,
koje bismo mi kao zajednica donatora,
04:33
would take under our wings,
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uzeli pod naše okrilje,
04:35
they took years, you know,
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tim projektima su bile potrebne
godine, znate,
godine, znate,
04:37
you had too many studies,
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bilo je previše izveštaja,
04:39
and very often they didn't succeed.
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i vrlo često nisu uspevali.
04:41
But these bad projects,
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Ali ovi loši projekti,
04:43
which were absolutely damaging -- for the economy
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koji su bili apsolutno upropašćavajući
- za ekonomiju
- za ekonomiju
04:45
for many generations, for the environment,
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za mnoge generacije, za životnu sredinu,
04:48
for thousands of families who had to be resettled --
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za hiljade porodica
koje je trebalo raseliti --
koje je trebalo raseliti --
04:51
they were suddenly put together
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odjednom su složeni
04:53
by consortia of banks,
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od strane konzorcijuma banaka,
04:56
of supplier agencies,
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agencija dobavljača,
04:58
of insurance agencies --
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osiguravajućih društava -
05:00
like in Germany, Hermes, and so on --
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kao u Nemačkoj, Hermes i slični -
05:03
and they came back very, very quickly,
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i ponovo su se pojavljivali, vrlo, vrlo brzo,
05:05
driven by an unholy alliance
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na čelu sa mračnim savezom
05:07
between the powerful elites
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između jakih elita,
05:11
in the countries there
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u tim zemljama,
05:13
and the suppliers from the North.
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i dobavljača sa severa.
05:15
Now, these suppliers
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Dakle, ti dobavljači
05:17
were our big companies.
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bili su naše velike kompanije.
05:19
They were the actors of this global market,
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To su bili igrači globalnog tržišta,
05:22
which I mentioned in the beginning.
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koje sam pomenuo na početku.
05:24
They were the Siemenses of this world,
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To su bili Simensi ovog sveta
05:27
coming from France, from the UK, from Japan,
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koji su dolazili iz Francuske,
Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva, Japana,
Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva, Japana,
05:29
from Canada, from Germany,
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iz Kanade, iz Nemačke,
05:31
and they were systematically driven
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i sistematski su vođeni,
05:34
by systematic, large-scale corruption.
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sveobuhvatajućom korupcijom
na svim nivoima.
na svim nivoima.
05:37
We are not talking about
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Ne govorimo
05:39
50,000 dollars here,
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o 50 000 dolara ovde,
05:41
or 100,000 dollars there, or one million dollars there.
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ili 100 000 dolara onde
ili milion dolara tamo.
ili milion dolara tamo.
05:44
No, we are talking about 10 million, 20 million dollars
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Ne, govorimo o 10, 20 miliona dolara
05:47
on the Swiss bank accounts,
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na bankovnim računima švajcarskih banaka,
05:49
on the bank accounts of Liechtenstein,
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na bankovnim računima u Lihtenštajnu,
05:51
of the president's ministers,
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na računima predsednikovih ministara,
05:55
the high officials in the para-statal sectors.
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visokih zvaničnika
u para-vladinim sektorima.
u para-vladinim sektorima.
05:58
This was the reality which I saw,
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Ovo je bila realnost koju sam video,
06:00
and not only one project like that:
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i ne samo jedan takav projekat:
06:02
I saw, I would say,
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video sam, rekao bih,
06:04
over the years I worked in Africa,
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za sve one godine
koliko sam radio u Africi,
koliko sam radio u Africi,
06:06
I saw hundreds of projects like this.
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video sam na stotine takvih projekata.
06:08
And so, I became convinced
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I tako, postao sam ubeđen
06:11
that it is this systematic corruption
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da je ovakva sistemska korupcija
06:14
which is perverting economic policy-making in these countries,
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koja onemogućava stvaranje
ekonomske politike u ovim zemljama,
ekonomske politike u ovim zemljama,
06:17
which is the main reason
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glavni razlog
06:20
for the misery, for the poverty,
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bede, siromaštva,
06:23
for the conflicts, for the violence,
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konflikata, nasilja,
06:25
for the desperation
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očaja
06:27
in many of these countries.
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u mnogima od ovih zemalja.
06:29
That we have today
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Danas imamo
06:31
more than a billion people below the absolute poverty line,
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više od milijardu ljudi ispod granice
apsolutnog siromaštva,
apsolutnog siromaštva,
06:34
that we have more than a billion people
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više od milijardu ljudi
06:37
without proper drinking water in the world,
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bez ispravne pijaće vode na svetu,
06:39
twice that number,
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duplo veći broj,
06:41
more than two billion people
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više od dve milijarde ljudi
06:43
without sanitation and so on,
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bez sanitetskog čvora i sličnog,
06:45
and the consequent illnesses
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i bolestima koje su posledice svega
06:47
of mothers and children,
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bolesti majki i dece
06:50
still, child mortality of more than
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smrtnost dece je veća od
06:53
10 million people every year,
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10 miliona ljudi svake godine
06:55
children dying before they are five years old:
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deca koja umiru pre navršene pete godine:
06:57
The cause of this is, to a large extent,
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uzrok ovome, u ogromnoj meri,
07:00
grand corruption.
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jeste sistemska korupcija.
07:02
Now, why did the World Bank
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Dakle, zašto mi Svetska banka
07:05
not let me do this work?
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nije dozvolila da radim ovaj posao?
07:08
I found out afterwards,
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Saznao sam kasnije
07:11
after I left, under a big fight, the World Bank.
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kada sam napustio Svetsku banku,
usled velikog sukoba.
usled velikog sukoba.
07:14
The reason was that the members of the World Bank
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Razlog je što su članice Svetske banke
07:17
thought that foreign bribery was okay,
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smatrale da je inostrani mito OK,
07:20
including Germany.
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uključujući i Nemačku.
07:22
In Germany, foreign bribery was allowed.
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U Nemačkoj, inostrano mito je dozvoljeno.
07:24
It was even tax-deductible.
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Čak se odbijalo i od poreza.
07:27
No wonder that most of the most important
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Nije ni čudo da je većina od najvažnijih
07:29
international operators in Germany,
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međunarodnih poduhvata u Nemačkoj,
07:32
but also in France and the UK
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ali i u Francuskoj
i Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu
i Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu
07:34
and Scandinavia, everywhere, systematically bribed.
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i Skandinaviji, svuda,
bilo sistematski korumpirano.
bilo sistematski korumpirano.
07:36
Not all of them, but most of them.
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Ne sve, ali većina.
07:39
And this is the phenomenon
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I ovo je fenomen
07:41
which I call failing governance,
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koji ja nazivam neuspehom vlade,
07:44
because when I then came to Germany
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jer kada sam, onda, otišao u Nemačku
07:46
and started this little NGO
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i započeo malu NVO
07:48
here in Berlin, at the Villa Borsig,
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ovde u Berlinu, u vili Borsing,
07:52
we were told, "You cannot stop
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rečeno mi je: "Ne možeš zaustaviti
07:55
our German exporters from bribing,
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naše nemačke izvoznike u davanju mita,
07:57
because we will lose our contracts.
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jer ćemo izgubiti naše ugovore.
08:00
We will lose to the French,
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Dobiće ih Francuzi,
08:02
we will lose to the Swedes, we'll lose to the Japanese."
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dobiće ih Šveđani, Japanci".
08:05
And therefore, there was a indeed a prisoner's dilemma,
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I stoga, zaista je postojala
zatvorenička dilema,
zatvorenička dilema,
08:08
which made it very difficult
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što je veoma otežalo
08:10
for an individual company,
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pojedinačnim kompanijama
08:12
an individual exporting country
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i pojedinačnim zemljama izvoznicama
08:15
to say, "We are not going to
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da kažu: "Mi nećemo
08:17
continue this deadly, disastrous
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nastaviti ovu smrtonosnu, katastrofalnu
08:20
habit of large companies to bribe."
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naviku velikih kompanija, da podmićuju".
08:24
So this is what I mean
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Dakle, evo kako ja to vidim
08:26
with a failing governance structure,
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sa strukturom vlade koja je podbacila,
08:29
because even the powerful government,
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jer i najsnažnija vlada
08:31
which we have in Germany, comparatively,
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koju imamo u Nemačkoj, relativno,
08:34
was not able to say,
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nije u mogućnosti da kaže:
08:36
"We will not allow our companies to bribe abroad."
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"Nećemo dozvoliti našim kompanijama
da daju mito u inostranstvu".
da daju mito u inostranstvu".
08:39
They needed help,
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Bila im je potrebna pomoć,
08:41
and the large companies themselves
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i same velike kompanije
08:43
have this dilemma.
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imaju ovu dilemu.
08:45
Many of them didn't want to bribe.
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Mnoge od njih nisu želele da nude mito.
08:47
Many of the German companies, for instance,
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Mnoge od nemačkih kompanija, na primer,
08:49
believe that they are really
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veruju da zaista
08:51
producing a high-quality product
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proizvode visokokvalitetni proizvod
08:53
at a good price, so they are very competitive.
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po dobroj ceni,
tako da su vrlo kompetitivne.
tako da su vrlo kompetitivne.
08:56
They are not as good at bribing
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One nisu toliko dobre u podmićivanju
08:59
as many of their international competitors are,
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kao što su suparničke
međunarodne kompanije
međunarodne kompanije
09:01
but they were not allowed
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ali nije im dozvoljeno
09:03
to show their strengths,
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da pokažu svoje snage
09:05
because the world was eaten up
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zato što je svet izjeden
09:08
by grand corruption.
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sistemskom korupcijom.
09:10
And this is why I'm telling you this:
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I zato vam sve ovo pričam:
09:14
Civil society rose to the occasion.
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Građansko društvo je podiglo svoj glas.
09:18
We had this small NGO,
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Imali smo ovu malu NVO
09:20
Transparency International.
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Transparency International.
09:22
They began to think of
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A oni su počeli da razmišljaju
09:24
an escape route from this prisoner's dilemma,
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o razrešavanju zatvoreničke dileme,
09:27
and we developed concepts
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i mi smo razvili koncepte
09:31
of collective action,
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grupne akcije,
09:33
basically trying to bring various competitors
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u suštini privlačeći različite nadmetače
09:35
together around the table,
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na jedno mesto,
09:37
explaining to all of them
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i objašnjavajući im
09:39
how much it would be in their interests
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koliko je zaista u njihovom interesu
09:41
if they simultaneously would stop bribing,
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da u isto vreme prestanu sa podmićivanjem,
09:43
and to make a long story short,
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i da skratim priču,
09:46
we managed to eventually
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uspesli smo da napokon
09:48
get Germany to sign
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pridobijemo Nemačku da potpiše,
09:50
together with the other OECD countries
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zajedno sa ostalim OECD zemljama
09:52
and a few other exporters.
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i par drugih izvoznika,
09:54
In 1997, a convention,
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1997. godine, konvenciju pod nadzorom
09:57
under the auspices of the OECD,
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Organizacije za ekonomsku saradnju
i razvoj,
i razvoj,
09:59
which obliged everybody
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koja obavezuje sve
10:01
to change their laws
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da promene svoje zakone
10:03
and criminalize foreign bribery.
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i kriminaliziju inostrano podmićivanje.
10:05
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
10:09
Well, thank you. I mean, it's interesting,
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Hvala vam, vidite interesantno je,
10:11
in doing this,
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da smo radili ovo
10:13
we had to sit together with the companies.
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zajedno sa kompanijama.
10:16
We had here in Berlin, at the Aspen Institute on the Wannsee,
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Imali smo ovde u Berlinu,
na Institutu Aspen u Vanzeju,
na Institutu Aspen u Vanzeju,
10:19
we had sessions with about
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sastanke sa oko
10:21
20 captains of industry,
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20 glavešina u industriji,
10:23
and we discussed with them
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i sa njima smo diskutovali
10:25
what to do about international bribery.
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šta raditi po pitanju
međunarodnog podmićivanja.
međunarodnog podmićivanja.
10:27
In the first session -- we had three sessions
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Na prvom sastanku - a imali smo ih tri
10:29
over the course of two years.
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u periodu od dve godine.
10:31
And President von Weizsäcker, by the way,
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Predsednik fon Vajczeker je, uzgred,
10:34
chaired one of the sessions, the first one,
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predsedavao prvim sastankom,
10:36
to take the fear away
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da bi otklonio strah
10:38
from the entrepreneurs,
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preduzetnicima,
10:41
who were not used to deal
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koji nisu navikli da se hvataju u koštac
10:43
with non-governmental organizations.
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sa nevladinim organizacijama.
10:45
And in the first session, they all said,
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I na prvom sastanku su svi oni rekli,
10:48
"This is not bribery, what we are doing." This is customary there.
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"Ovo nije mito, ovo što mi radimo".
To je tamošnji običaj.
To je tamošnji običaj.
10:51
This is what these other cultures demand.
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To je ono što kulture
zemalja domaćina zahtevaju.
zemalja domaćina zahtevaju.
10:54
They even applaud it.
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Oni to čak i podstiču.
10:56
In fact, [unclear]
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Zapravo
10:58
still says this today.
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i danas se to govori.
11:00
And so there are still a lot of people
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Dakle, i dalje je mnogo ljudi
11:02
who are not convinced that you have to stop bribing.
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koji nisu ubeđeni da je neophodno
zaustaviti podmićivanje.
zaustaviti podmićivanje.
11:05
But in the second session,
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Ali na drugom sastanku,
11:07
they admitted already that they would never do this,
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priznali su da se time više neće baviti,
11:09
what they are doing in these other countries,
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tim nezakonitim poslovima
u drugim zemljama,
u drugim zemljama,
11:12
here in Germany, or in the U.K., and so on.
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niti u Nemačkoj,
Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu, ni drugde.
Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu, ni drugde.
11:14
Cabinet ministers would admit this.
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Kabinetski ministri su ovo izjavili.
11:17
And in the final session, at the Aspen Institute,
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A na poslednjem sastanku
u Institutu Aspen,
u Institutu Aspen,
11:20
we had them all sign an open letter
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svi su potpisali otvoreno pismo
11:23
to the Kohl government, at the time,
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vladi premijera Kola,
premijera u tom periodu,
premijera u tom periodu,
11:25
requesting that they
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zahtevajući da
11:27
participate in the OECD convention.
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učestvuju u OECD konvenciji.
11:29
And this is, in my opinion,
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I ovo je, po mom mišljenju,
11:32
an example of soft power,
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primer "meke" snage,
11:34
because we were able to convince them
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jer smo uspeli da ih ubedimo
11:36
that they had to go with us.
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da moraju da se slože sa nama,
11:38
We had a longer-term time perspective.
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U vidu smo imali dugoročnu perspektivu.
11:41
We had a broader,
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Imali smo širi,
11:43
geographically much wider,
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geografski mnogo širi,
11:45
constituency we were trying to defend.
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ustavni poredak koji smo
pokuašavli da odbranimo.
pokuašavli da odbranimo.
11:47
And that's why the law has changed.
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I zato je zakon promenjen.
11:49
That's why Siemens is now in the trouble they are in
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Zbog toga je Simens danas
u problemu u kom jeste
u problemu u kom jeste
11:52
and that's why MIN is in the trouble they are in.
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i zbog toga je i MIN u problemu.
11:55
In some other countries, the OECD convention
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U nekom drugim zemljama, OECD konvencija
11:58
is not yet properly enforced.
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još uvek nije u potpunosti primenjena.
12:00
And, again, civil societies
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I opet, građansko društvo
12:02
breathing down the neck of the establishment.
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stoji za vratom vladama.
12:05
In London, for instance,
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U Londonu, na primer,
12:07
where the BAE got away
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BAE je uspela da se izvuče
12:09
with a huge corruption case,
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iz ogromnog korupcijskog slučaja,
12:11
which the Serious Fraud Office tried to prosecute,
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koji je gonila Kancelarija
protiv ozbiljnih prevara,
protiv ozbiljnih prevara,
12:15
100 million British pounds,
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100 miliona funti,
12:17
every year for ten years,
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svake godine, proteklih deset godina,
12:19
to one particular official of one particular friendly country,
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davano je jednom određenom funkcioneru
jedne određene prijateljske zemlje
jedne određene prijateljske zemlje
12:22
who then bought for
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koji je od tog novca kupio
12:24
44 billion pounds of military equipment.
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44 milijarde funti vrednu vojnu opremu.
12:28
This case, they are not prosecuting in the UK.
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Ovaj slučaj se ne tereti
u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.
u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.
12:30
Why? Because they consider this
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Zašto? Zato što ovo smatraju
12:32
as contrary to the security interest
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suprotno bezbednosnim interesima
12:35
of the people of Great Britain.
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naroda Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva.
12:37
Civil society is pushing, civil society
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Građansko društvo je uporno,
građansko društvo
građansko društvo
12:39
is trying to get a solution to this problem,
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pokušava da nađe rešenje ovog problema,
12:42
also in the U.K.,
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kako u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu,
12:44
and also in Japan, which is not properly enforcing,
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tako i u Japanu,
a to nije dovoljno dobro podržano,
a to nije dovoljno dobro podržano,
12:46
and so on.
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i tako dalje.
12:48
In Germany, we are pushing
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U Nemačkoj, trudimo se
12:50
the ratification of the UN convention,
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da ratifikujemo konvenciju UN,
12:52
which is a subsequent convention.
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a to je konvencija koja je usledila.
12:54
We are, Germany, is not ratifying.
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Mi, u Nemačkoj, je nismo ratifikovali.
12:56
Why? Because it would make it necessary
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Zašto? Zato što bi nas to obavezalo
12:59
to criminalize the corruption
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da kriminalizujemo korupciju
13:02
of deputies.
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poslanika.
13:04
In Germany, we have a system where
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U Nemačkoj, imamo sistem koji
13:06
you are not allowed to bribe a civil servant,
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ne dozvoljava da podmitiš
državnog službenika,
državnog službenika,
13:09
but you are allowed to bribe a deputy.
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ali smeš da podmitiš poslanika.
13:12
This is, under German law, allowed,
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Ovo je dozvoljeno
u nemačkom zakonodavstvu,
u nemačkom zakonodavstvu,
13:15
and the members of our parliament don't want to change this,
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i članovi našeg Parlamenta
ne žele da to menjaju,
ne žele da to menjaju,
13:17
and this is why they can't sign
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i to je razlog zašto ne potpisuju
13:19
the U.N. convention against foreign bribery --
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konvenciju UN protiv
inostranog podmićivanja -
inostranog podmićivanja -
13:22
one of they very, very few countries
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jedna smo od vrlo retkih zemalja
13:24
which is preaching honesty and good governance everywhere in the world,
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koje zagovaraju poštene
i dobre vlade širom sveta,
i dobre vlade širom sveta,
13:27
but not able to ratify the convention,
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ali ne ratifikuju konvenciju,
13:29
which we managed to get on the books
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koju smo uspeli da uvedemo u zakonodavstvo
13:32
with about 160 countries all over the world.
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preko 160 zemalja širom sveta.
13:35
I see my time is ticking.
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Vidim da mi vreme ističe.
13:37
Let me just try to
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Dozvolite da samo pokušam
13:39
draw some conclusions from what has happened.
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da izvedem neke zaključke
iz ovoga što se zbilo.
iz ovoga što se zbilo.
13:42
I believe that what we managed to achieve
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Verujem da smo uspeli da postignemo
13:46
in fighting corruption,
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u borbi protiv korupcije,
13:49
one can also achieve
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ono što se može postići
13:51
in other areas of failing governance.
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u drugim oblastima neuspelih vlada.
13:53
By now, the United Nations
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Do sada, Ujedinjene nacije
13:55
is totally on our side.
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u potpunosti su na našoj strani.
13:57
The World Bank has turned from Saulus to Paulus; under Wolfensohn,
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Svetska banka se pretvorila
iz Savla u Pavla, pod Volfensonom,
iz Savla u Pavla, pod Volfensonom,
14:01
they became, I would say, the strongest
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postali su, rekao bih, najjača
14:04
anti-corruption agency in the world.
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anti-korupcijska agencija na svetu.
14:06
Most of the large companies
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Većina velikih kompanija
14:08
are now totally convinced
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sada su potpuno ubeđene
14:10
that they have to put in place
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da moraju primeniti
14:12
very strong policies
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veoma jaka pravila
14:14
against bribery and so on.
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protiv podmićivanja i sličnog.
14:16
And this is possible because civil society
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A ovo je moguće, jer građansko društvo
14:19
joined the companies
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zajedno sa kompanijama
14:21
and joined the government
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i zajedno sa vladama
14:23
in the analysis of the problem,
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analizira problem
14:25
in the development of remedies,
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i pronalazi rešenja,
14:27
in the implementation of reforms,
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implementira reforme
14:30
and then later, in the monitoring of reforms.
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i kasnije, prati delovanje reformi.
14:33
Of course, if civil society organizations
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Naravno, ukoliko organizacije
građanskog društva
građanskog društva
14:36
want to play that role,
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žele da imaju ovu ulogu,
14:38
they have to grow into this responsibility.
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moraju dorasti ovakvoj odgovornosti.
14:42
Not all civil society organizations are good.
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Nisu sve organizacije
civilnog društva dobre.
civilnog društva dobre.
14:45
The Ku Klux Klan is an NGO.
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Kju kluks klan je nevladina organizacija.
14:48
So, we must be aware
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Dakle, moramo biti obazrivi
14:50
that civil society
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da građansko društvo
14:52
has to shape up itself.
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mora samo sebe oblikovati.
14:54
They have to have a much more
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Moraju imati mnogo
14:56
transparent financial governance.
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transparentnije finansijsko poslovanje.
14:58
They have to have a much more participatory governance
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Moraju imati participatorno upravljanje
15:01
in many civil society organizations.
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u mnogim organizacijama civilnog društva.
15:04
We also need much more competence of civil society leaders.
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Lideri građanskih inicijativa
moraju imati dosta kompetencija.
moraju imati dosta kompetencija.
15:07
This is why we have set up the governance school
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Zato smo napravili školu upravljanja
15:10
and the Center for Civil Society here in Berlin,
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i Centar za građansko društvo,
ovde u Berlinu,
ovde u Berlinu,
15:12
because we believe most of our educational
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zato što verujemo
da većina naših obrazovnih
da većina naših obrazovnih
15:15
and research institutions in Germany
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i istraživačkih institucija u Nemačkoj
15:17
and continental Europe in general,
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i kontinentalnoj oblasti Evrope,
15:19
do not focus enough, yet,
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još uvek ne obraćaju dovoljno pažnje
15:21
on empowering civil society
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na osnaživanje građanskog društva
15:23
and training the leadership of civil society.
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i edukovanje lidera građanskog društva.
15:26
But what I'm saying from my very practical experience:
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Ali ono što vam govorim iz ličnog
i veoma praktičnog, iskustva:
i veoma praktičnog, iskustva:
15:29
If civil society does it right
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ukoliko građansko društvo
dobro obavi svoj posao
dobro obavi svoj posao
15:32
and joins the other actors --
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i uključi druge aktere -
15:35
in particular, governments,
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posebno vlade,
15:37
governments and their international institutions,
369
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vlade i njihove međunarodne institucije,
15:40
but also large international actors,
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ali i velike međunarodne igrače,
15:43
in particular those which have committed themselves
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posebno one koji su se već posvetili
15:45
to corporate social responsibility --
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korporativnoj socijalnoj odgovornosti -
15:47
then in this magical triangle
373
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onda u ovom magičnom trouglu
15:50
between civil society,
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između građanskog društva,
15:52
government and private sector,
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vlade i privatnog sektora,
15:54
there is a tremendous chance
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ogromna je šansa
15:56
for all of us to create a better world.
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za sve nas, da kreiramo bolji svet.
16:00
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
16:02
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Peter Eigen - Founder, Transparency InternationalAs a director of the World Bank in Nairobi, Peter Eigen saw firsthand how devastating corruption can be. He's founder of Transparency International, an NGO that works to persuade international companies not to bribe.
Why you should listen
From the website of Transparency International comes this elegant definition: What is corruption? Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. It hurts everyone whose life, livelihood or happiness depends on the integrity of people in a position of authority.
Peter Eigen knows this. He worked in economic development for 25 years, mainly as a World Bank manager of programs in Africa and Latin America. Among his assignments, he served as director of the regional mission for Eastern Africa from 1988 to 1991. Stunned by the depth and pervasiveness -- and sheer destructiveness -- of the corruption he encountered, he formed the group Transparency International to take on some of the main players in deals with corrupt officials: multinational corporations.
Eigen believes that the best way to root out corruption is to make it known. Thus, Transparency International works to raises awareness of corruption, and takes practical action to address it, including public hearings.
Peter Eigen | Speaker | TED.com