TEDGlobal 2013
George Papandreou: Imagine a European democracy without borders
乔治·帕潘德里欧: 乔治·帕潘德里欧: 设想一个跨国界的欧洲民主
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希腊已成为欧洲的经济危机的雏形，但前总理帕潘德里欧提出，希腊仅是对未来灾难的预演。 “我们的民主政治，”他说，“深陷于庞大得无法坍塌的体系中，抑或庞大得无法驾驭的系统中……像我这样的政治家已经失去了本国人民的信任。”如何解决呢？让公民更直接地重新参与到新的民主决策中来。
George Papandreou - Former Prime Minister of Greece
George Papandreou draws on lessons learned from the Greek debt crisis as he helps guide the EU through difficult waters. Full bio
George Papandreou draws on lessons learned from the Greek debt crisis as he helps guide the EU through difficult waters. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
This will not be a speech
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今天(的演讲)将不像我过去做的
00:14
like any one I have ever given.
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的任何一个演讲
今天我想给你们讲的是
00:17
I will talk to you today about
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00:21
the failure of leadership in global politics
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国际政治中失效的领导能力
和我们正走向国际化的经济
00:26
and in our globalizing economy.
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我不带给你们一些看似美好的现成解决方案
但最终我要敦促你们
00:29
And I won't provide some feel-good, ready-made solutions.
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反思并勇于承担风险,参与到
在我看来是全球范围的
00:36
But I will in the end urge you
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00:38
to rethink, actually take risks, and get involved
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民主变革中来
00:44
in what I see as a global evolution
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00:47
of democracy.
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00:50
Failure of leadership.
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（让我们来谈一下）失效的领导力
00:52
What is the failure of leadership today?
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在当今社会，什么是失效的领导力？
00:55
And why is our democracy not working?
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究竟为什么我们的民主政策不管用？
我认为失效的领导力指的是
00:58
Well, I believe that the failure of leadership is the fact
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我们没有把你们（公众）带入民主全球化的进程中
01:01
that we have taken you out of the process.
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01:05
So let me, from my personal experiences,
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好吧，让我从我个人的经历来
01:08
give you an insight, so that you can step back
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讲一下我的想法，借此你可以退一步
01:12
and maybe understand why it is so difficult to cope
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去理解为什么应对
当今社会的挑战是如此困难
01:16
with the challenges of today and why politics
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为什么政治正走向死胡同
01:18
is going down a blind alley.
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01:22
Let's start from the beginning.
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让我们从头来讲吧
01:24
Let's start from democracy.
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让我们从民主开始讲吧
01:28
Well, if you go back to the Ancient Greeks,
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嗯，如果你回到古希腊
01:30
it was a revelation, a discovery,
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它代表一种启示，一项发现
民主表明我们有潜力能够一起努力
01:33
that we had the potential, together,
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成为我们命运的主人
01:38
to be masters of our own fate,
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能够检验、学习、想象
01:41
to be able to examine, to learn, to imagine,
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01:44
and then to design a better life.
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然后一起设计一个更美好的生活
民主既是一个政治上的创新
01:48
And democracy was the political innovation
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同时也保护我们的自由生活
01:53
which protected this freedom,
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01:55
because we were liberated from fear
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（因为民主）我们能够从恐惧中解放出来
这样我们的内心坚定
02:01
so that our minds in fact,
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02:02
whether they be despots or dogmas,
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无论面临着专制主义或是教条主义的时候
02:05
could be the protagonists.
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（我们）都是自己的主人
02:09
Democracy was the political innovation that allowed us
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民主曾是一个政治创新，让我们得以
限制强权，无论它是来自恶势力
02:12
to limit the power, whether it was of tyrants
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或是大祭司
02:16
or of high priests,
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这些人的天性就是最大化他们的强权和财富
02:18
their natural tendency to maximize power and wealth.
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嗯，我最早意识到这一点
02:23
Well, I first began to understand this
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02:25
when I was 14 years old.
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是在我14岁的时候
02:27
I used to, to try to avoid homework,
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我为了逃避做作业
02:29
sneak down to the living room and listen to my parents
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遛到客厅去听我父母
和他们的朋友激烈辩论
02:34
and their friends debate heatedly.
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02:36
You see, then Greece was
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你知道，希腊过去是
02:38
under control of a very powerful establishment
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在极强大的极权统治之下的
02:43
which was strangling the country,
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这种极权扼制了国家（的发展）
02:44
and my father was heading a promising movement
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我父亲当时在领导一个大有希望的（政治）运动
02:47
to reimagine Greece, to imagine a Greece
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来重新设想希腊，来设想
02:50
where freedom reigned and where, maybe,
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一个由自由主宰的，而且一个
由人民、公民来统治的国家
02:52
the people, the citizens, could actually rule their own country.
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我过去曾参与许多我父亲的竞选活动
02:56
I used to join him in many of the campaigns,
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02:58
and you can see me here next to him.
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你可以（从照片上看到）我站在他旁边
03:00
I'm the younger one there, to the side.
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我是他左边的那个少年
03:03
You may not recognize me because
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你可能认不出我来了，因为
我过去的发型与现在略有不同
03:06
I used to part my hair differently there.
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03:08
(Laughter)
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（观众笑声）
03:10
So in 1967, elections were coming,
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在1967年竞选时
竞选活动非常顺利
03:14
things were going well in the campaign,
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03:16
the house was electric.
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众议院是一片热闹的景象
03:18
We really could sense that there was going to be
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我们真的感觉到了
03:20
a major progressive change in Greece.
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这将使希腊迈出一大步
03:24
Then one night, military trucks drive up to our house.
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然而一个晚上，一辆军用卡车开到我家
士兵涌进门
03:29
Soldiers storm the door.
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他们在露台发现我
03:32
They find me up on the top terrace.
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03:36
A sergeant comes up to me with a machine gun,
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一个警官手提机枪走上前
03:38
puts it to my head, and says,
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顶着我的脑袋，说
03:40
"Tell me where your father is or I will kill you."
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“告诉我你爸在哪里，不然我杀了你”
我藏在一旁的父亲走了出来
03:44
My father, hiding nearby, reveals himself,
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即刻被他们押到了监狱
03:48
and was summarily taken to prison.
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我们活了下来，可惜民主没有
03:52
Well, we survived, but democracy did not.
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03:56
Seven brutal years of dictatorship
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残暴的独裁统治的7年里
03:59
which we spent in exile.
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我们在流亡中度过
04:02
Now, today, our democracies are again
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今天，我们的民主政治再次到了
04:05
facing a moment of truth.
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面临真理的时刻
04:07
Let me tell you a story.
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让我来给你们讲述一个故事
04:09
Sunday evening,
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一个星期日的晚上，
04:11
Brussels, April 2010.
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布鲁塞尔，2010年4月
我和一些欧盟同行坐在一起
04:14
I'm sitting with my counterparts in the European Union.
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04:18
I had just been elected prime minister,
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我刚刚被选为总理
身为总理我不幸地公布这样一个事实
04:21
but I had the unhappy privilege of revealing a truth
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04:25
that our deficit was not 6 percent,
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我们的财务亏损并不是6%
04:28
as had been officially reported only a few days earlier
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那个几天前
在竞选以前，由前任政府所公布的数据
04:32
before the elections by the previous government,
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04:35
but actually 15.6 percent.
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事实上，我们的财务亏损是15.6%
04:40
But the deficit was only the symptom
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但财务亏损仅是
希腊面临的更深层问题的一个体现
04:42
of much deeper problems that Greece was facing,
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04:44
and I had been elected on a mandate, a mission, actually,
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我当选之际，承担的一个使命就是
04:48
to tackle these problems,
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解决这些深层问题
04:50
whether it was lack of transparency
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不论是政府行政缺乏透明度
04:52
and accountability in governance,
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和责任感
04:55
or whether it was a clientelistic state
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还是一个地方保护主义的州政府
04:57
offering favors to the powerful -- tax avoidance
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让利给强权势力－给他们免税
05:02
abetted and aided by a global tax evasion system,
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被全球逃税体系和
特殊利益集团控制下的政界、媒体所怂恿教唆
05:07
politics and media captured by special interests.
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05:10
But despite our electoral mandate,
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尽管我们由选举授权
05:13
the markets mistrusted us.
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市场仍旧无法信任我们
我们的借贷利率仍旧疯涨
05:16
Our borrowing costs were skyrocketing,
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05:19
and we were facing possible default.
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我们那时正面临负债的可能
05:22
So I went to Brussels on a mission
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于是我带着一个使命来到布鲁塞尔
05:25
to make the case for a united European response,
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向欧盟叙述现状，以期得到回应
05:29
one that would calm the markets and give us the time
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从而稳定市场，并给我们时间
05:32
to make the necessary reforms.
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来进行必要的改革
05:35
But time we didn't get.
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但我们未得到（足够的）时间
05:38
Picture yourselves around the table in Brussels.
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想象一下你坐在布鲁赛尔的谈判桌上
05:41
Negotiations are difficult, the tensions are high,
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谈判很艰难，局势很紧张
05:44
progress is slow, and then, 10 minutes to 2,
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整个过程进行得十分缓慢，1点50分的时候
05:47
a prime minister shouts out,
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某国一总理喊起来
05:49
"We have to finish in 10 minutes."
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“我们必须10分钟内结束会议。”
05:51
I said, "Why? These are important decisions.
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我问，“为什么？这些是重要的决定。
05:54
Let's deliberate a little bit longer."
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我们再花点时间商议一下。“
05:56
Another prime minister comes in and says,
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另一国总理插话说，
”不行，我们不得不达成一致，
05:59
"No, we have to have an agreement now,
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06:03
because in 10 minutes,
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因为10分钟以后，
06:05
the markets are opening up in Japan,
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日本市场将开盘，
06:08
and there will be havoc in the global economy."
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全球经济将一片浩劫。”
我们迅速在10分钟内达成协议
06:13
We quickly came to a decision in those 10 minutes.
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这一次，不是军队
06:16
This time it was not the military,
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而是市场，用机枪顶住了我们所有人的脑袋
06:19
but the markets, that put a gun to our collective heads.
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06:25
What followed were the most difficult decisions in my life,
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接下来我做了一生最困难的决定
06:29
painful to me, painful to my countrymen,
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这不仅令我痛苦，也令我的国民痛苦
强行削减政策，财政紧缩
06:33
imposing cuts, austerity,
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06:37
often on those not to blame for the crisis.
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受重挫的往往是那些无辜的人们
06:40
With these sacrifices, Greece did avoid bankruptcy
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由于这样的牺牲，希腊确实没有破产
06:43
and the eurozone avoided a collapse.
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欧元体系也没有崩溃
06:46
Greece, yes, triggered the Euro crisis,
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希腊，是的，引起了欧元危机
06:49
and some people blame me for pulling the trigger.
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而且有些人埋怨是我扣动了扳机
06:52
But I think today that most would agree
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但我认为今天大多数人都同意
06:55
that Greece was only a symptom
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希腊(的问题）仅是一个表象
06:57
of much deeper structural problems in the eurozone,
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是一些在欧元区更深层、更本质问题的一个表象
07:01
vulnerabilities in the wider global economic system,
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是更大范围的全球经济系统漏洞的一个表象
07:05
vulnerabilities of our democracies.
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我们民主政治漏洞的一个表象。
07:08
Our democracies are trapped by systems too big to fail,
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我们的民主政治深陷于“强大得永不坍塌”的系统
或者，更准确地说，“强大得无法驾驭”的系统
07:12
or, more accurately, too big to control.
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07:15
Our democracies are weakened in the global economy
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我们的民主政治在全球经济环境中被削弱
07:18
with players that can evade laws, evade taxes,
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（民主）被那些逃避法律、逃避税收的人（所削弱）
（民主）被那些破坏环境和劳动力标准的人（所削弱）
07:21
evade environmental or labor standards.
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07:25
Our democracies are undermined
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我们的民主政治
07:27
by the growing inequality
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被日益加剧的不平等和
07:30
and the growing concentration of power and wealth,
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权富集中所削弱
政治游说、贪污腐败、市场化的进程
07:33
lobbies, corruption, the speed of the markets
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07:37
or simply the fact that we sometimes fear an impending disaster,
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或仅仅是我们面临灾难的那种恐惧
07:42
have constrained our democracies,
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制约了我们的民主
07:45
and they have constrained our capacity
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制约了我们
设想和发挥潜能的能力 你们的潜能
07:47
to imagine and actually use the potential, your potential,
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寻求解决方案的潜能
07:51
in finding solutions.
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07:54
Greece, you see, was only a preview
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你所看到的希腊只是一场预演
07:56
of what is in store for us all.
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这是我们所有人都将面临的景象
07:59
I, overly optimistically, had hoped
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我曾天真地希望
08:01
that this crisis was an opportunity for Greece, for Europe,
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这个危机提供了一个机会，让希腊，让欧洲
08:04
for the world, to make radical democratic transformations
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进行全世界范围内大幅度的民主改革
08:09
in our institutions.
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改革我们的组织机构
08:11
Instead, I had a very humbling experience.
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可是正相反，我却有了一次非常屈辱的经历
08:15
In Brussels, when we tried desperately again and again
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在布鲁塞尔，当我们一次又一次绝望地努力着
08:19
to find common solutions,
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去寻求共同的解决方案（的时候）
08:21
I realized that not one, not one of us,
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我认识到，我们中没有一个人
08:25
had ever dealt with a similar crisis.
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曾处理过类似的危机
08:28
But worse, we were trapped by our collective ignorance.
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更糟糕的是，我们陷入共同的无知中
被恐惧牵着鼻子走
08:32
We were led by our fears.
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恐惧带着我们走向盲目的信念
08:36
And our fears led to a blind faith
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对紧缩政策的信奉
08:40
in the orthodoxy of austerity.
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08:43
Instead of reaching out to the common
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没有向大众
08:47
or the collective wisdom in our societies,
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抑或是社会集体智慧（求助）
08:50
investing in it to find more creative solutions,
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（没有）花时间寻找有创见性的解决方案
08:54
we reverted to political posturing.
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我们再次摆出了政治姿态
08:56
And then we were surprised when every
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接着我们惊讶地发现
08:58
ad hoc new measure didn't bring an end to the crisis,
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临时推出的方案未能结束危机
09:01
and of course that made it very easy
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当然了，这很容易（让我们）想找到
09:04
to look for a whipping boy
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寻找一个替罪羊
09:06
for our collective European failure,
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来为整个欧洲的失败买单
09:08
and of course that was Greece.
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毫无疑问，这替罪羊就是希腊
那些挥霍无度的、闲散的、一边畅饮茴香酒，一边狂跳左巴舞的希腊人
09:11
Those profligate, idle, ouzo-swilling, Zorba-dancing Greeks,
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09:16
they are the problem. Punish them!
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他们就是问题所在。惩罚他们！
这随便的毫无依据的陈旧思维
09:19
Well, a convenient but unfounded stereotype
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09:23
that sometimes hurt even more than austerity itself.
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往往比财政紧缩带来的危害更大
我要提醒你，这不仅是希腊的问题
09:27
But let me warn you, this is not just about Greece.
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09:31
This could be the pattern
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这可能是一个思维模式的问题
09:34
that leaders follow again and again
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使领导者们一次又一次遵循
09:36
when we deal with these complex, cross-border problems,
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处理复杂跨国问题固有的思维模式的问题
09:40
whether it's climate change, whether it's migration,
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不论是气候问题，是移民问题
09:43
whether it's the financial system.
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还是金融调解问题
09:47
That is, abandoning our collective power
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我们抛弃集体力量
09:49
to imagine our potential,
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不充分发挥我们的潜力
09:51
falling victims to our fears, our stereotypes, our dogmas,
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而选择成为恐惧，机械，教条的牺牲品
09:55
taking our citizens out of the process
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把公民排除在决策层之外
09:57
rather than building the process around our citizens.
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而不是以公民意见为核心来决策
10:02
And doing so will only test the faith
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这样做的结果是
考验了我们的公民、人民，甚至
10:04
of our citizens, of our peoples, even more
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（考验了）整个民主进程的信念
10:06
in the democratic process.
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难怪很多政治领导
10:09
It's no wonder that many political leaders,
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10:11
and I don't exclude myself,
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包括我自己
10:13
have lost the trust of our people.
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失去了人民的信任
警察需要从骚乱中保护国会
10:16
When riot police have to protect parliaments,
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10:20
a scene which is increasingly common around the world,
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这一场面在世界各地越来越常见
10:24
then there's something deeply wrong with our democracies.
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（那是因为）我们的民主政治出现了深层的问题
10:29
That's why I called for a referendum to have the Greek people
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这就是为什么我主张公投，借此让希腊人民自己
10:33
own and decide on the terms of the rescue package.
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决定援救计划的各个条款
10:37
My European counterparts, some of them, at least,
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我的欧洲同行们，至少其中一部分说，
10:39
said, "You can't do this.
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“你不能这么做。
10:41
There will be havoc in the markets again."
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这样又会导致一场市场浩劫。”
我回答说，“我们需要这么做，在恢复对市场的信心以前，
10:45
I said, "We need to, before we restore confidence in the markets,
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我们需要恢复人民的信心与信任。”
10:50
we need to restore confidence and trust amongst our people."
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10:55
Since leaving office, I have had time to reflect.
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离政以后，我有时间来进行反思
10:58
We have weathered the storm, in Greece and in Europe,
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我们经受了在希腊和欧洲的风暴
11:03
but we remain challenged.
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但我们仍面临挑战
11:06
If politics is the power to imagine and use our potential,
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如果政治决策层拥有设想和发挥潜力的能力
11:09
well then 60-percent youth unemployment in Greece,
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那么在希腊以及其他国家60%的青年失业率
11:13
and in other countries, certainly is a lack of imagination
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证明了我们缺乏合理的设想
11:16
if not a lack of compassion.
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缺乏应有的同情心
11:19
So far, we've thrown economics at the problem,
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到现在为止，我们将这个问题归因于经济状况
11:21
actually mostly austerity,
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事实上绝大部分是由于财政紧缩
11:24
and certainly we could have designed alternatives,
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当然我们本可以想其他的办法
11:27
a different strategy, a green stimulus for green jobs,
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不同的策略，（比如）鼓励绿色产业刺激就业
11:30
or mutualized debt, Eurobonds which would
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或互惠借贷，用欧元债券
11:34
support countries in need from market pressures,
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帮助那些困于市场压力的国家
11:37
these would have been much more viable alternatives.
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这些应该是更可行的办法
11:40
Yet I have come to believe that the problem is not so much
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但我相信问题的根本不仅仅
是一个经济问题，而是一个民主问题
11:42
one of economics as it is one of democracy.
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让我们试试其他的办法
11:46
So let's try something else.
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11:48
Let's see how we can bring people back to the process.
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让我们把人民带入这个过程中来
11:51
Let's throw democracy at the problem.
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让我们用民主来解决问题
11:54
Again, the Ancient Greeks, with all their shortcomings,
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古希腊，即便有种种不足
11:57
believed in the wisdom of the crowd
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最辉煌的时期，他们相信群众的智慧
12:00
at their best moments. In people we trust.
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相信值得信赖的人民
12:03
Democracy could not work without the citizens
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民主需要人民通过
商议、辩论、承担公共事务中的责任
12:06
deliberating, debating, taking on public responsibilities
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对公共事务进行决策。
12:10
for public affairs.
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12:12
Average citizens often were chosen for citizen juries
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大多数公民常被选为公民陪审团
12:15
to decide on critical matters of the day.
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来裁决当日重要案件
12:19
Science, theater, research, philosophy,
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科技，戏剧，研究，哲学
12:22
games of the mind and the body,
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是心灵与身体的游戏
12:25
they were daily exercises.
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是一种日常演习
12:26
Actually they were an education for participation,
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事实上通过参与，公民得以进行自我教育
12:30
for the potential, for growing the potential of our citizens.
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因此提高我们公民的潜能
12:34
And those who shunned politics, well, they were idiots.
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那些避开政治的人是蠢货
12:38
You see, in Ancient Greece, in ancient Athens,
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蠢货一词源于古希腊和雅典
12:42
that term originated there.
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来自词根“idio"，意思是”自己“
12:44
"Idiot" comes from the root "idio," oneself.
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12:49
A person who is self-centered, secluded, excluded,
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一个自我为中心的、与世隔离，被排斥了的人
12:52
someone who doesn't participate or even examine public affairs.
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一个不参与或不思考公共事务的人
应该参与在集市中来。集市有两个意思
12:57
And participation took place in the agora, the agora having two meanings,
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13:00
both a marketplace and a place where there was political deliberation.
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既指市场，
又指政治商酌的地方
13:07
You see, markets and politics then were one, unified,
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你看，市场和政治是实际上是统一的
13:11
accessible, transparent, because they gave power to the people.
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是可接近的，透明的，因为他们同样给人民以力量
让他们为民主服务
13:14
They serve the demos, democracy.
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（让民主）高于政府，高于市场
13:19
Above government, above markets
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13:22
was the direct rule of the people.
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由人民直接统治
13:24
Today we have globalized the markets
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今天我们已经有了全球化市场
13:27
but we have not globalized our democratic institutions.
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但是我们还没有全球化的民主组织
13:32
So our politicians are limited to local politics,
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所以我们的政治家仍旧局限于本地政治
即便人民可以看到更美好的希望
13:36
while our citizens, even though they see a great potential,
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13:40
are prey to forces beyond their control.
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仍旧被强权所吞噬
13:44
So how then do we reunite the two halves of the agora?
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那么我们怎样重新整合市场经济和政治体系呢？
13:47
How do we democratize globalization?
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我们怎样将全球化民主化呢？
13:49
And I'm not talking about the necessary reforms
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我不是在讨论如何
13:52
of the United Nations or the G20.
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对联合国或G20进行必要的改革
13:55
I'm talking about, how do we secure the space,
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我是在说，我们怎样保留
13:57
the demos, the platform of values,
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民主和价值体系的平台
14:00
so that we can tap into all of your potential?
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在此之基础上我们可以挖掘全部的潜能
这恰恰是欧洲的情况
14:05
Well, this is exactly where I think Europe fits in.
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14:09
Europe, despite its recent failures,
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2400
欧洲，尽管近来失利，
14:11
is the world's most successful cross-border peace experiment.
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仍旧是世界最成功的跨国和平共处的实验平台
14:16
So let's see if it can't be an experiment
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所以让我们来看一看它是否也可以成为
全球民主的实验地，一种新的民主
14:19
in global democracy, a new kind of democracy.
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14:23
Let's see if we can't design a European agora,
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让我们看看是否我们可以设计一个欧洲集市
14:27
not simply for products and services,
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不仅是提供产品和服务的集市
14:29
but for our citizens, where they can work together,
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也是人民进行交流的集市
14:32
deliberate, learn from each other,
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互相讨论，相互学习
14:34
exchange between art and cultures,
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进行艺术与文化的交流
14:37
where they can come up with creative solutions.
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在这里他们可以提出有创意的解决方案
14:41
Let's imagine that European citizens
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让我们想象一下”欧洲公民“
14:44
actually have the power to vote directly
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可以投票
14:46
for a European president,
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直选出一个”欧洲主席“
14:49
or citizen juries chosen by lottery
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或者抽签选出陪审团
14:53
which can deliberate on critical and controversial issues,
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商酌重要的有争议的问题
在欧洲范围内公投，我们的公民
14:57
a European-wide referendum where our citizens,
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作为法律的制定者，为未来的法律条约投票
15:00
as the lawmakers, vote on future treaties.
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15:05
And here's an idea:
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我有个想法
15:07
Why not have the first truly European citizens
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能不能有第一批真正的“欧洲公民”
15:10
by giving our immigrants,
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2020
给各地移民一个“欧洲公民”的身份
15:12
not Greek or German or Swedish citizenship,
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4112
不是希腊公民、德国公民、瑞典公民，
15:16
but a European citizenship?
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3623
而是”欧洲公民“？
15:20
And make sure we actually empower
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保证他们的权利
让失业人士拥有”奖学金券“
15:23
the unemployed by giving them a voucher scholarship
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2779
15:26
where they can choose to study anywhere in Europe.
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3469
让他们随意选择在欧洲的任何地方进行深造
15:29
Where our common identity is democracy,
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4481
这样我们共同的身份是民主
15:34
where our education is through participation,
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这样我们的教育是通过参与
15:39
and where participation builds trust
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3473
这种参与能够建立信任、团结
15:42
and solidarity rather than exclusion and xenophobia.
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而不是排斥与仇外
15:46
Europe of and by the people,
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1662
欧洲属于人民，由人民统治
15:48
a Europe, an experiment in deepening and widening
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在欧洲，推行更深更广的
15:52
democracy beyond borders.
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跨国界的民主政治实验
15:55
Now, some might accuse me of being naive,
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3838
或许有人认为我天真地
15:59
putting my faith in the power and the wisdom of the people.
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4871
过度信赖于人民的力量与智慧
16:03
Well, after decades in politics, I am also a pragmatist.
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有了几十年参政经验的我，也已经变成了一个实用主义者
16:08
Believe me, I have been,
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相信我，我曾经是
16:11
I am, part of today's political system,
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3660
现在仍是当今政治体系中一部分
16:14
and I know things must change.
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4637
我知道这一切必须改变
16:19
We must revive politics as the power to imagine,
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我们必须将政治的复兴作为一种力量来设想
16:23
reimagine, and redesign for a better world.
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来重新设想、设计出一个更美好的世界
16:29
But I also know that this disruptive force of change
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2814
但我也知道这种改变的颠覆性力量
16:31
won't be driven by the politics of today.
300
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不是来自于目前的政治决策层
16:34
The revival of democratic politics
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民主政治的复兴
16:37
will come from you, and I mean all of you.
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4420
将来自你们，我指你们所有人
16:41
Everyone who participates in this global exchange of ideas,
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全球每一个参与交流的人
16:45
whether it's here in this room
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1049
不管是今天到场的人
16:46
or just outside this room
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2213
还是场外的人
16:48
or online or locally, where everybody lives,
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3834
网络上的人，还是住在某地的人，
16:52
everyone who stands up to injustice and inequality,
307
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3320
每个反对不公正不平等的人
16:56
everybody who stands up to those who preach
308
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2720
每个反对
16:58
racism rather than empathy,
309
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2264
那些宣扬种族歧视、无同情心的人
17:01
dogma rather than critical thinking,
310
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2816
那些教条主义、无辩证思考的人
17:03
technocracy rather than democracy,
311
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2316
那些官僚的、无民主思想的人
17:06
everyone who stands up to the unchecked power,
312
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2975
每一个反对不受制约的强权的人
17:09
whether it's authoritarian leaders,
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2121
不论是专制的领导人
17:11
plutocrats hiding their assets in tax havens,
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3436
还是逃税来隐藏资产的财阀
还是保护一小撮强权者的政治说客
17:14
or powerful lobbies protecting the powerful few.
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3920
17:18
It is in their interest that all of us are idiots.
316
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5433
这些人希望我们所有人都是蠢货
17:24
Let's not be.
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我们偏不！
17:25
Thank you.
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1240
谢谢
17:26
(Applause)
319
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11910
（观众掌声）
17:38
Bruno Giussani: You seem to describe a political leadership
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1913
（主持人）你似乎描述了一个政治家
17:40
that is kind of unprepared
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2185
有点措手不及地
17:42
and a prisoner of the whims of the financial markets,
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2782
深陷于金融市场风暴的囹圄中
17:45
and that scene in Brussels that you describe, to me,
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2360
你描述的布鲁塞尔的场面对于我来说
一个普通公民来说确实够可怕的
17:47
as a citizen, is terrifying.
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2503
请描述一下您做出决定以后的心情
17:50
Help us understand how you felt after the decision.
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4299
17:54
It was not a good decision, clearly,
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1568
显然那不是好决定
17:56
but how do you feel after that, not as the prime minister,
327
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2584
但你心情是怎样的？不是作为总理
17:58
but as George?
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2189
而是作为乔治（你自己）？
18:01
George Papandreou: Well, obviously there were constraints
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2542
（乔治·帕潘德里欧）显然当时确实有这样的困难
18:03
which didn't allow me or others to make
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3926
令我以及其他人无法做出
18:07
the types of decisions we would have wanted,
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1440
我们想要做的决定
18:09
and obviously I had hoped that we would have the time
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2765
我当然希望我们有时间
18:11
to make the reforms which would have dealt
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1707
通过改革来处理财务亏损
18:13
with the deficit rather than trying to cut the deficit
334
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2493
而不是试图消减财务亏损
18:15
which was the symptom of the problem.
335
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1715
那只是问题的表象
18:17
And that hurt. That hurt because that, first of all,
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2199
这么做是不利的。不利是因为，首先
18:19
hurt the younger generation, and not only,
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3504
对年轻一代不利
而且他们很多人在外示威
18:23
many of them are demonstrating outside,
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1937
但我认为这是问题之一
18:25
but I think this is one of our problems.
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1624
18:26
When we face these crises, we have kept the potential,
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5232
当我们面临危机时，我们忽略了我们的潜力
18:32
the huge potential of our society out of this process,
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3135
忽略了此过程中来自社会的巨大潜力
我们封闭在政治之中
18:35
and we are closing in on ourselves in politics,
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2824
我认为我们就是需要改变这个，寻求
18:38
and I think we need to change that, to really find
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2746
18:40
new participatory ways using the great capabilities
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4173
一种以新的方式来参与决策的能力
18:45
that now exist even in technology but not only in technology,
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3150
（这种能力）现在甚至存在于科技中，不仅是科技
18:48
the minds that we have, and I think we can find solutions
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也存在于我们的信念中。我认为我们可以找到
更好的解决方式，但是我们一定需要有开放的心态
18:51
which are much better, but we have to be open.
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1807
18:53
BG: You seem to suggest that the way forward
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（主持人）你似乎建议下一步
18:54
is more Europe, and that is not to be an easy discourse
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主要是欧洲开始施行（民主政治），这可不太容易做到
18:58
right now in most European countries.
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特别是现在的一些欧洲国家
19:00
It's rather the other way -- more closed borders
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它们正好相反，他们开始封闭国界
19:03
and less cooperation and maybe even stepping out
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减少合作，甚至将退出
某些欧盟内的组织
19:06
of some of the different parts of the European construction.
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19:10
How do you reconcile that?
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您是怎样看待这个问题的呢？
19:11
GP: Well, I think one of the worst things that happened
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(乔治·帕潘德里欧) 我认为在危机发生后的恶果之一
19:14
during this crisis is that we started a blame game.
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就是我们开始了相互责备
19:16
And the fundamental idea of Europe is that
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欧盟最基本的观念是
19:20
we can cooperate beyond borders,
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我们可以跨越国界合作
19:22
go beyond our conflicts and work together.
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抛开分歧，共同努力
19:24
And the paradox is that, because we have this blame game,
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然而矛盾的是，因为我们开始了相互责备
19:30
we have less the potential to convince our citizens
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我们失去了赢得人心的机会
19:33
that we should work together,
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19:35
while now is the time when we really need
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现在正是我们需要
19:37
to bring our powers together.
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齐心协力的时刻
19:39
Now, more Europe for me is not simply
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现在，欧洲不需要把
19:42
giving more power to Brussels.
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权利交给布鲁塞尔
19:43
It is actually giving more power to the citizens of Europe,
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而是要交给欧洲人民
19:47
that is, really making Europe a project of the people.
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让欧洲成为一个“人民工程”
所以我认为，可以通过这个来回应
19:51
So that, I think, would be a way to answer
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19:53
some of the fears that we have in our society.
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一些社会上的恐慌
（主持人）感谢您光临Ted讲台
19:56
BG: George, thank you for coming to TED.
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19:58
GP: Thank you very much.BG: Thank you.(Applause)
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（乔治·帕潘德里欧）十分感谢。（主持人）谢谢。（观众掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
George Papandreou - Former Prime Minister of GreeceGeorge Papandreou draws on lessons learned from the Greek debt crisis as he helps guide the EU through difficult waters.
Why you should listen
George Papandreou, a third-generation scion of Greece’s defining political dynasty, entered the global spotlight with his attempts to re-invent his country during the darkest hours of the European debt crisis. Upon becoming Prime Minister in 2009, his government inherited a deficit that was much larger than had been reported. As PM, he implemented major changes and reforms, but was overtaken by events beyond his government's control.
Papandreou resigned his Prime Minister post in November 2011 as part of a deal to pave the way for a coalition government to restore Grecian stability, but remains a powerful figure as an MP and as President of the Socialist International.
As he says: “We do have a choice. Either we empower Europe and its citizens and become a catalyst for humanizing our global economy, or globalization will dehumanize our societies and undermine the European project. As a citizen of Europe, I vote for the first choice."
George Papandreou | Speaker | TED.com