TED2014
David Chalmers: How do you explain consciousness?
大卫·查默斯: 如何解释意识?
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意识是我们存在的根本，哲学家大卫·查默斯说：“没有什么是我们能更直接了解的……但同时它也是宇宙中最神秘的现象。”他分享了一些关于如何思考我们大脑中放映的电影的方法。
David Chalmers - Philosopher
In his work, David Chalmers explores the “hard problem of consciousness" -- the quest to explain our subjective experience. Full bio
In his work, David Chalmers explores the “hard problem of consciousness" -- the quest to explain our subjective experience. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Right now
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此时此刻
00:14
you have a movie playing inside your head.
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正有一部电影在你脑海中放映。
00:17
It's an amazing multi-track movie.
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这是一部奇妙的多轨道电影。
00:20
It has 3D vision and surround sound
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这部围绕着你正看到和听到的电影
00:23
for what you're seeing and hearing right now,
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拥有三维视觉和环绕立体声，
00:26
but that's just the start of it.
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但这仅仅是个开始。
00:28
Your movie has smell and taste and touch.
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你的电影有嗅觉、味觉和触觉。
00:33
It has a sense of your body,
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它拥有你的身体所拥有的感觉，
00:36
pain, hunger, orgasms.
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痛苦，饥饿，高潮。
00:40
It has emotions,
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它拥有情绪，
00:42
anger and happiness.
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愤怒和快乐。
00:46
It has memories, like scenes from your childhood
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它拥有记忆，就像你的童年
00:50
playing before you.
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正在你的面前放映。
00:52
And it has this constant voiceover narrative
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并且它在你的有意识的思维流中
00:57
in your stream of conscious thinking.
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拥有恒定的旁白。
01:01
At the heart of this movie is you
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这部电影的核心
01:06
experiencing all this directly.
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是你直接体验这一切。
01:11
This movie is your stream of consciousness,
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这部电影是你的意识流，
01:16
the subject of experience
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它是一部关于
01:18
of the mind and the world.
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对思想和世界的体验为主题的影片。
01:23
Consciousness is one of the fundamental facts
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意识是人类之所以存在
01:25
of human existence.
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的基本事实之一。
01:27
Each of us is conscious.
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我们每个人都是有意识的。
01:30
We all have our own inner movie,
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我们都有自己的内心电影，
01:33
you and you and you.
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包括你、你、还有你。
01:36
There's nothing we know about more directly.
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没有什么是我们能直接了解的。
01:39
At least, I know about my consciousness directly.
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至少，我能直接了解我的意识。
01:43
I can't be certain that you guys are conscious.
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我不确定你们是否也能意识到这点。
01:47
Consciousness also is what makes life worth living.
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意识也是一种让生命值得活下去的东西。
01:50
If we weren't conscious, nothing in our lives
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如果我们没有意识，那么我们生命中的任何事情
01:54
would have meaning or value.
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都失去了意义和价值。
01:57
But at the same time, it's the most
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同时，意识也是
01:58
mysterious phenomenon in the universe.
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最宇宙中最神秘的现象。
02:03
Why are we conscious?
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为什么我们会有意识？
02:06
Why do we have these inner movies?
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为什么我们会有这些内心电影？
02:07
Why aren't we just robots
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为什么我们不只是那种
02:10
who process all this input,
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处理输入
02:12
produce all that output,
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再输出结果
02:14
without experiencing the inner movie at all?
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而不会体验任何内心电影的机器人？
02:18
Right now, nobody knows the answers
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目前为止，没有人知道这个问题
02:20
to those questions.
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的答案。
02:22
I'm going to suggest that to integrate consciousness
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我想说如果要将意识整合
02:26
into science, some radical ideas may be needed.
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到科学中去，一些激进的想法也许是需要的。
02:31
Some people say a science of consciousness
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有人说意识科学
02:33
is impossible.
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是不可能存在的。
02:35
Science, by its nature, is objective.
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科学，从它的本质上来看，是客观的。
02:39
Consciousness, by its nature, is subjective.
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意识，从它的本质上来看，是主观的。
02:43
So there can never be a science of consciousness.
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所以，不可能会有意识科学。
02:47
For much of the 20th century, that view held sway.
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在20世纪的大部分时间里，这种观点占据统治地位。
02:50
Psychologists studied behavior objectively,
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心理学家客观地研究行为举止，
02:54
neuroscientists studied the brain objectively,
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神经科学家客观地研究大脑，
02:58
and nobody even mentioned consciousness.
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但是没有人哪怕是提到意识。
03:02
Even 30 years ago, when TED got started,
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即使30年前，当TED刚开始时，
03:04
there was very little scientific work
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也很少见到关于意识方面
03:07
on consciousness.
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的科学研究。
03:09
Now, about 20 years ago,
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大约在20年前，
03:11
all that began to change.
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所有这些都开始改变了。
03:14
Neuroscientists like Francis Crick
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像弗朗西斯·克里克这样的神经科学家
03:17
and physicists like Roger Penrose
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以及像罗杰·彭罗斯这样的物理学家
03:20
said now is the time for science
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都说现在正是科学向意识方面进攻
03:22
to attack consciousness.
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的时候。
03:25
And since then, there's been a real explosion,
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从那以来，
03:27
a flowering of scientific work
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关于意识方面的科学研究
03:29
on consciousness.
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遍地开花。
03:31
And this work has been wonderful. It's been great.
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这项研究很奇妙，很了不起。
03:33
But it also has some fundamental
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但是迄今为止它也还有一些
03:35
limitations so far.
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根本的局限性。
03:39
The centerpiece
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近几年
03:40
of the science of consciousness in recent years
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意识科学研究的核心
03:43
has been the search for correlations,
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是寻找相关性，
03:45
correlations between certain areas of the brain
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关于大脑的特定区域
03:49
and certain states of consciousness.
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和特定的意识状态之间的相关性。
03:53
We saw some of this kind of work
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我们看了南希·坎维舍
03:54
from Nancy Kanwisher and the wonderful work
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做的一些这方面的研究以及几分钟之前
03:55
she presented just a few minutes ago.
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她刚刚提交的精彩工作。
03:59
Now we understand much better, for example,
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现在我们有了更好的理解，例如，
04:02
the kinds of brain areas that go along with
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不同的大脑区域对应着不同
04:05
the conscious experience of seeing faces
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的意识体验：人脸识别
04:08
or of feeling pain
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或者感受痛苦
04:11
or of feeling happy.
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或者感受快乐。
04:14
But this is still a science of correlations.
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但这仍然是关于相关性的科学。
04:16
It's not a science of explanations.
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这不是意识科学。
04:20
We know that these brain areas
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我们知道这些大脑区域
04:22
go along with certain kinds of conscious experience,
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对应着特定的意识体验，
04:26
but we don't know why they do.
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但是我们不知道为什么会这样。
04:30
I like to put this by saying
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我想说的是，
04:32
that this kind of work from neuroscience
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神经科学方面的这种研究
04:36
is answering some of the questions
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正回答着那些
04:37
we want answered about consciousness,
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我们想要回答的关于意识、
04:39
the questions about what certain brain areas do
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关于某些特定大脑区域做些什么
04:43
and what they correlate with.
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以及对应哪种（意识体验）的问题。
04:45
But in a certain sense, those are the easy problems.
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但是从某种意义上来说，这些都是简单的问题。
04:48
No knock on the neuroscientists.
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都不是神经科学家想要研究的。
04:51
There are no truly easy
problems with consciousness.
problems with consciousness.
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没有真正的关于意识的简单问题。
04:53
But it doesn't address the real mystery
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它没能解开关于这个课题的核心
04:58
at the core of this subject:
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的真正谜团：
05:00
why is it that all that physical processing in a brain
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为什么大脑中所有的物理过程
05:04
should be accompanied by consciousness at all?
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必须伴随着意识？
05:07
Why is there this inner subjective movie?
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为什么会有这种内心的主观电影的存在？
05:10
Right now, we don't really have a bead on that.
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目前为止，我们对此还没有一点头绪。
05:13
And you might say,
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也许你会说，
05:15
let's just give neuroscience a few years.
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让我们再给神经科学几年时间。
05:19
It'll turn out to be another emergent phenomenon
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它会被证明是另一种涌现现象，
05:23
like traffic jams, like hurricanes,
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就像塞车、就像飓风、
05:28
like life, and we'll figure it out.
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就像生命一样，并且我们会弄明白它。
05:30
The classical cases of emergence
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所有涌现现象的经典案例
05:32
are all cases of emergent behavior,
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都是应急行为的表现，
05:36
how a traffic jam behaves,
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塞车是如何行成的，
05:38
how a hurricane functions,
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飓风是如何作用的，
05:40
how a living organism reproduces
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生物体是如何繁殖、
05:42
and adapts and metabolizes,
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适应环境和新陈代谢的，
05:45
all questions about objective functioning.
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所有这些问题都是关于客观机能的。
05:48
You could apply that to the human brain
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你可以把它应用到人类的大脑上
05:51
in explaining some of the behaviors
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去解释为什么人类大脑的某些行为
05:52
and the functions of the human brain
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和功能
05:54
as emergent phenomena:
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跟涌现现象很像：
05:55
how we walk, how we talk, how we play chess,
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我们如何走路，如何谈话，如何下象棋，
06:00
all these questions about behavior.
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所有这些问题都是关于行为的。
06:02
But when it comes to consciousness,
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但是当谈到意识时，
06:04
questions about behavior
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关于行为的问题
06:06
are among the easy problems.
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只是一个简单的问题。
06:09
When it comes to the hard problem,
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当涉及到困难问题时，
06:10
that's the question of why is it
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问题就变成了为什么
06:13
that all this behavior
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所有的这些行为
06:14
is accompanied by subjective experience?
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都伴随着主观体验。
06:17
And here, the standard paradigm
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对此，涌现现象
06:19
of emergence,
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的标准范例，
06:21
even the standard paradigms of neuroscience,
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甚至神经科学的标准范例，
06:24
don't really, so far, have that much to say.
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到目前为止都没有太多可以说的。
06:28
Now, I'm a scientific materialist at heart.
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现在，我本质上是一个科学唯物主义者。
06:32
I want a scientific theory of consciousness
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我希望某种关于意识的科学理论
06:36
that works,
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能够奏效，
06:38
and for a long time, I banged my head
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在过去很长一段时间里，
06:41
against the wall
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我埋头苦干，
06:42
looking for a theory of consciousness
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努力寻找一种有效的
06:44
in purely physical terms
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单从物理的角度去解释的
06:46
that would work.
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关于意识的理论。
06:47
But I eventually came to the conclusion
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但我最终得出一个结论，
06:49
that that just didn't work for systematic reasons.
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那就是它不起作用只是因为系统性的原因。
06:53
It's a long story,
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说来话长，
06:55
but the core idea is just that what you get
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但是这个故事的核心就是
06:58
from purely reductionist explanations
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你从在物理方面，在基于大脑方面的
07:00
in physical terms, in brain-based terms,
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纯粹的还原论者的解释中得到的东西，
07:03
is stories about the functioning of a system,
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是关于一个系统的功能、
07:05
its structure, its dynamics,
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它的结构、它的动力、
07:07
the behavior it produces,
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以及它所产生的行为的，
07:09
great for solving the easy problems —
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它可以很好地解决简单问题——
07:11
how we behave, how we function —
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比如说我们如何表现，我们如何活动——
07:14
but when it comes to subjective experience —
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但是当它涉及到主观体验时——
07:17
why does all this feel like
something from the inside? —
something from the inside? —
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比如说为什么所有这些都感觉像是来自内心的某些东西？——
07:21
that's something fundamentally new,
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这是一些全新的东西，
07:23
and it's always a further question.
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并且它总会成为一个更深层次的问题。
07:27
So I think we're at a kind of impasse here.
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因此我想我们进入了僵局。
07:32
We've got this wonderful, great chain of explanation,
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我们已经有了一套美妙的、伟大的解释链，
07:35
we're used to it, where physics explains chemistry,
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我们已经习惯了它，那就是用用物理解释化学，
07:39
chemistry explains biology,
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用化学解释生物，
07:42
biology explains parts of psychology.
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用生物解释部分心理学。
07:46
But consciousness
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但是意识
07:48
doesn't seem to fit into this picture.
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似乎并不符合这种情形。
07:50
On the one hand, it's a datum
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一方面，它是一个已知数
07:52
that we're conscious.
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即我们是有意识的。
07:54
On the other hand, we don't know how
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另一方面，我们却并不知道
07:55
to accommodate it into our
scientific view of the world.
scientific view of the world.
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如何使它与我们的科学的世界观相适应。
07:59
So I think consciousness right now
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所以我认为就目前而言意识
08:01
is a kind of anomaly,
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是一种反常事物，
08:04
one that we need to integrate
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是一种需要我们将它整合到
08:06
into our view of the world, but we don't yet see how.
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我们的世界观中，而我们却还不知道如何整合的事物。
08:10
Faced with an anomaly like this,
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面对这样的反常事物，
08:12
radical ideas may be needed,
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我们可能需要一些激进的想法，
08:15
and I think that we may need one or two ideas
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并且我认为我们可能需要一两个
08:18
that initially seem crazy
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在我们可以科学地
08:20
before we can come to grips with consciousness
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面对意识之前
08:23
scientifically.
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看起来很疯狂的想法。
08:25
Now, there are a few candidates
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现在，对于这些疯狂的想法可能是什么
08:27
for what those crazy ideas might be.
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已经有了一些候选项。
08:29
My friend Dan Dennett, who's here today, has one.
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我的朋友丹·丹尼特就有一个这样的想法，他今天也在这里。
08:34
His crazy idea is that there is no hard problem
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他的疯狂想法是关于意识
08:36
of consciousness.
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的困难问题并不存在。
08:38
The whole idea of the inner subjective movie
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整个内心主观电影的想法
08:41
involves a kind of illusion or confusion.
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涉及一种幻觉或困惑。
08:46
Actually, all we've got to do is explain
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事实上，我们现在要做的就是解释
08:48
the objective functions, the behaviors of the brain,
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客观功能和大脑行为，
08:51
and then we've explained everything
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然后自然地我们就解释了
08:53
that needs to be explained.
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所有需要被解释的。
08:55
Well I say, more power to him.
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我想说，给他更多的能量。
08:58
That's the kind of radical idea
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这就是那种我们需要去探索的
09:00
that we need to explore
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激进想法，
09:02
if you want to have a purely reductionist
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如果你想获得关于意识的
09:04
brain-based theory of consciousness.
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纯还原论者的基于大脑的理论的话。
09:08
At the same time, for me and for many other people,
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2071
同时，对于我和其他很多人来说，
09:10
that view is a bit too close to simply
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这个观点有一点太接近于简单地
09:12
denying the datum of consciousness
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否认关于意识的已知资料
09:14
to be satisfactory.
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1503
而不能令人满意。
09:15
So I go in a different direction.
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因此我选择了另一个不同的方向。
09:18
In the time remaining,
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在余下的时间里，
09:19
I want to explore two crazy ideas
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我想探讨两个我认为可能有希望的
09:22
that I think may have some promise.
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疯狂想法。
09:26
The first crazy idea
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第一种疯狂想法是
09:28
is that consciousness is fundamental.
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意识是一种基本概念。
09:32
Physicists sometimes take
some aspects of the universe
some aspects of the universe
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物理学家有时候会把宇宙中的某些方面
09:35
as fundamental building blocks:
200
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2160
作为基本概念，如：
09:37
space and time and mass.
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空间、时间和质量。
09:41
They postulate fundamental laws governing them,
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他们设定了一些基本定律去管理它们，
09:45
like the laws of gravity or of quantum mechanics.
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例如重力定律和量子力学定律。
09:49
These fundamental properties and laws
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这些基本性质和定律
09:51
aren't explained in terms of anything more basic.
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不能解释一些更基础的东西。
09:54
Rather, they're taken as primitive,
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这相当于以它们为根本，
09:57
and you build up the world from there.
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然后你在它们的基础上建立这个世界。
10:00
Now sometimes, the list of fundamentals expands.
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现在，这张基本定律名单会不时扩大。
10:05
In the 19th century, Maxwell figured out
209
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2457
在19世纪，麦克斯韦断定
10:08
that you can't explain electromagnetic phenomena
210
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3168
你无法用当时存在的基本概念——
10:11
in terms of the existing fundamentals —
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空间、时间、质量、牛顿定律——
10:13
space, time, mass, Newton's laws —
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去解释电磁现象，
10:16
so he postulated fundamental laws
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2571
因此他设定了电磁学的
10:19
of electromagnetism
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基本定律，
10:21
and postulated electric charge
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2411
并且设定了电荷
10:23
as a fundamental element
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作为这些定律的
10:25
that those laws govern.
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基本元素。
10:28
I think that's the situation we're in
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我认为这与我们在研究意识上的
10:31
with consciousness.
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情形是一样的。
10:33
If you can't explain consciousness
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2485
如果我们不能用现存的基本概念——
10:35
in terms of the existing fundamentals —
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时间、空间、质量、电荷——
10:38
space, time, mass, charge —
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去解释意识，
10:40
then as a matter of logic,
you need to expand the list.
you need to expand the list.
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那么从逻辑上而言，你需要去扩充这张名单。
10:44
The natural thing to do is to postulate
224
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接下来将意识本身设定为
10:46
consciousness itself as something fundamental,
225
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某种根本性的东西，
10:50
a fundamental building block of nature.
226
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作为自然界的基本概念就是一件自然而然的事。
10:53
This doesn't mean you suddenly
can't do science with it.
can't do science with it.
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这并不意味着突然间你不能用它来研究科学了。
10:56
This opens up the way for you to do science with it.
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这反而是为你开僻了一条用它来研究科学的道路。
10:59
What we then need is to study
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然后我们需要做的就是研究
11:01
the fundamental laws governing consciousness,
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那些掌控着意识的基本定律，
11:04
the laws that connect consciousness
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那些将意识与其它基本概念——
11:06
to other fundamentals: space, time, mass,
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2801
空间、时间、质量、物理过程——
11:09
physical processes.
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联系在一起的定律。
11:12
Physicists sometimes say
234
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2182
物理学家有时候说
11:14
that we want fundamental laws so simple
235
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2880
我们希望那些基本定律可以简单到
11:17
that we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.
236
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3802
能够把它们写在T恤上。
11:21
Well I think something like that is the situation
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1721
我想我们在对意识的研究上
11:23
we're in with consciousness.
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1868
也应该这样。
11:25
We want to find fundamental laws so simple
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2750
我希望我们发现的关于意识的基本定律也可以简单到
11:27
we could write them on the front of a t-shirt.
240
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2087
能够把它们写在T恤上。
11:29
We don't know what those laws are yet,
241
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我们现在还不知道这些定律是什么，
11:31
but that's what we're after.
242
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4027
但这是我们正在寻找的。
11:35
The second crazy idea
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2417
第二个疯狂的想法
11:37
is that consciousness might be universal.
244
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3478
是意识也许是普通存在的。
11:41
Every system might have some degree
245
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也许每个系统都有某种程度的
11:44
of consciousness.
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3725
意识。
11:48
This view is sometimes called panpsychism:
247
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这种观点有时被称作泛心论：
11:51
pan for all, psych for mind,
248
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3002
万物皆有精神或心理活动，
11:54
every system is conscious,
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1771
每个系统都具有意识，
11:55
not just humans, dogs, mice, flies,
250
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4247
不仅是人类、狗、老鼠、苍蝇，
12:00
but even Rob Knight's microbes,
251
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2577
甚至连罗伯·奈特的微生物、
12:02
elementary particles.
252
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2187
基本粒子都具有意识。
12:04
Even a photon has some degree of consciousness.
253
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2713
甚至连一个光子都有某种程度的意识。
12:07
The idea is not that photons are intelligent
254
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3779
这个观点不是说光子是智能的
12:11
or thinking.
255
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1077
或者能思考的。
12:12
It's not that a photon
256
720561
1430
不是说一个光子
12:13
is wracked with angst
257
721991
1445
会由于焦虑而被破坏，
12:15
because it's thinking, "Aww, I'm always
buzzing around near the speed of light.
buzzing around near the speed of light.
258
723436
3292
而这种焦虑是因为它想着“哦，我总是以接近光速的速度
12:18
I never get to slow down and smell the roses."
259
726728
2992
紧张地跑来跑去，从来没有放慢速度来闻一闻玫瑰花香“。
12:21
No, not like that.
260
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2144
不，事情不是这样子的。
12:23
But the thought is maybe photons might have
261
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3048
这种观点想要表达的是也许光子可能会有
12:26
some element of raw, subjective feeling,
262
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2623
一些原始的、主观的体验，
12:29
some primitive precursor to consciousness.
263
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4152
一些原始的意识的前兆。
12:33
This may sound a bit kooky to you.
264
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2854
对你来说，这听起来可能有点怪。
12:36
I mean, why would anyone think such a crazy thing?
265
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2783
我的意思是，为什么不可以有人思考这样疯狂的事呢？
12:39
Some motivation comes from the first crazy idea,
266
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3560
有一些动机来自第一个疯狂想法，
12:42
that consciousness is fundamental.
267
750884
2146
即意识是基本概念。
12:45
If it's fundamental, like space and time and mass,
268
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4375
如果它是基本概念，就像空间、时间和质量一样，
12:49
it's natural to suppose that it might be universal too,
269
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2665
那么很自然地可以假定它也可能具有普遍性，
12:52
the way they are.
270
760070
1900
就像其它的基本概念一样。
12:53
It's also worth noting that although the idea
271
761970
1949
还有一点值得注意的是虽然这个想法
12:55
seems counterintuitive to us,
272
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2024
对我们来说是违反直觉的，
12:57
it's much less counterintuitive to people
273
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2744
但对来自其他文化的人来说
13:00
from different cultures,
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768687
1731
可能就不是那么违反直觉了，
13:02
where the human mind is seen as much more
275
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1520
那些（其他文化的）人的心灵
13:03
continuous with nature.
276
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3072
跟自然联系在一起的时间更长。
13:07
A deeper motivation comes from the idea that
277
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3734
从这个想法中得到的一个更深的动机是
13:10
perhaps the most simple and powerful way
278
778744
2009
也许找出将意识与物理过程
13:12
to find fundamental laws connecting consciousness
279
780753
2234
联系在一起的
13:14
to physical processing
280
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1980
最简单和最有力的方式
13:16
is to link consciousness to information.
281
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3095
就是将意识与信息相结合。
13:20
Wherever there's information processing,
282
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2011
有信息处理的地方
13:22
there's consciousness.
283
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1065
就有意识。
13:23
Complex information processing, like in a human,
284
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2540
复杂的信息处理，比如说人类的信息处理，
13:25
complex consciousness.
285
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1532
伴随着复杂的意识。
13:27
Simple information processing,
286
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2129
简单的信息处理，
13:29
simple consciousness.
287
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1958
伴随着简单的意识。
13:31
A really exciting thing is in recent years
288
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2331
一件令人很兴奋的事是最近几年
13:33
a neuroscientist, Giulio Tononi,
289
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3265
有一个神经科学家，朱利奥·托诺尼
13:36
has taken this kind of theory
290
804903
1243
采用了这种理论
13:38
and developed it rigorously
291
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2075
并且严格按照数学理论
13:40
with a mathematical theory.
292
808221
1849
的方式发展了它。
13:42
He has a mathematical measure
293
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1517
他有一个关于信息整合
13:43
of information integration
294
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1730
的数学测量，
13:45
which he calls phi,
295
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1919
他称之为phi，
13:47
measuring the amount of information
296
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1607
他用它来测量
13:48
integrated in a system.
297
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1620
一个系统中的信息整合的量。
13:50
And he supposes that phi goes along
298
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2369
他推断phi
13:52
with consciousness.
299
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1438
是与意识相关的。
13:54
So in a human brain,
300
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1321
所以在人类的大脑中，
13:55
incredibly large amount of information integration,
301
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2519
有着令人难以置信的信息整合量，
13:58
high degree of phi,
302
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2034
高度的phi值，
14:00
a whole lot of consciousness.
303
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1549
一大堆的意识。
14:01
In a mouse, medium degree
of information integration,
of information integration,
304
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3693
在老鼠的大脑中，有中度的信息整合量，
14:05
still pretty significant,
305
833386
1019
但仍然数目庞大，
14:06
pretty serious amount of consciousness.
306
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2025
仍然具有大量的意识。
14:08
But as you go down to worms,
307
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2265
但是当你将研究目标降至蠕虫、
14:10
microbes, particles,
308
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3477
微生物、粒子，
14:14
the amount of phi falls off.
309
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1534
phi的值就会跌落。
14:15
The amount of information integration falls off,
310
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2433
信息整合量会跌落，
14:18
but it's still non-zero.
311
846139
1448
但不会为零。
14:19
On Tononi's theory,
312
847587
1939
在托诺尼的理论中，
14:21
there's still going to be a non-zero degree
313
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2207
意识程度
14:23
of consciousness.
314
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1829
也不会降为零。
14:25
In effect, he's proposing a fundamental law
315
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2539
事实上，他正在提出这样一个关于意识的
14:28
of consciousness: high phi, high consciousness.
316
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3384
基本定律：phi值越高，意识度也越高。
14:31
Now, I don't know if this theory is right,
317
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2622
现在，我不知道这个理论是否正确，
14:34
but it's actually perhaps the leading theory right now
318
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3211
但是实际上或许它正处于
14:37
in the science of consciousness,
319
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1386
意识科学的理论前沿，
14:38
and it's been used to integrate a whole range
320
866704
2231
并且它已经被用于整合
14:40
of scientific data,
321
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2387
各方面的科学数据，
14:43
and it does have a nice property
that it is in fact simple enough
that it is in fact simple enough
322
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2243
它还有一个很好的属性就是它足够简单，
14:45
you can write it on the front of a t-shirt.
323
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3495
简单到你可以将它写在T恤上。
14:49
Another final motivation is that
324
877060
2625
另外一个最终动机就是
14:51
panpsychism might help us to integrate
325
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2051
泛心论可以帮助我们
14:53
consciousness into the physical world.
326
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3214
将意识和物理世界相结合。
14:56
Physicists and philosophers have often observed
327
884950
3177
物理学家和哲学家经常注意到
15:00
that physics is curiously abstract.
328
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2441
物理学是深奥抽象的。
15:02
It describes the structure of reality
329
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2148
它用一连串的方程式
15:04
using a bunch of equations,
330
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2084
去描述现实结构，
15:06
but it doesn't tell us about the reality
331
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3024
但是它又不告诉我们
15:09
that underlies it.
332
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1568
构成它的现实基础。
15:11
As Stephen Hawking puts it,
333
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1897
正如史蒂芬·霍金所说，
15:13
what puts the fire into the equations?
334
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4054
是什么将火放进方程式的？
15:17
Well, on the panpsychist view,
335
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2618
而在泛心论者看来，
15:19
you can leave the equations of physics as they are,
336
907961
2639
物理方程可以是它现在的样子，
15:22
but you can take them to be describing
337
910600
1564
但是你也可以用它来描述
15:24
the flux of consciousness.
338
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1674
意识的量。
15:25
That's what physics really is ultimately doing,
339
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2038
这是物理学最终要做的，
15:27
describing the flux of consciousness.
340
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2329
描述意识的量。
15:30
On this view, it's consciousness
341
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1653
用这种观点看来，是意识
15:31
that puts the fire into the equations.
342
919858
4246
将火放到了方程中。
15:36
On that view, consciousness doesn't dangle
343
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1660
在那种观点看来，意识
15:37
outside the physical world
344
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1676
不是晃荡在物质世界之外
15:39
as some kind of extra.
345
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1418
的特别的东西。
15:40
It's there right at its heart.
346
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3456
它存在于物质世界的核心。
15:44
This view, I think, the panpsychist view,
347
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2874
我认为，这种泛心论者的观点，
15:47
has the potential to transfigure our relationship
348
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3301
有那种使我们对我们与自然的关系产生改观
15:50
to nature,
349
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1495
的潜能，
15:51
and it may have some pretty serious social
350
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2235
并且它可能产生一些相当严重的
15:54
and ethical consequences.
351
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3693
社会和伦理方面的后果。
15:57
Some of these may be counterintuitive.
352
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2159
它们当中的一些可能是违反直觉的。
16:00
I used to think I shouldn't eat anything
353
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3071
我曾经想我不可以
16:03
which is conscious,
354
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2462
吃任何有意识的东西，
16:05
so therefore I should be vegetarian.
355
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2604
因此我要做一个素食主义者。
16:08
Now, if you're a panpsychist and you take that view,
356
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2567
但是现，如果你是一个泛心论者并且采用这种观点，
16:10
you're going to go very hungry.
357
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2730
你只能挨饿。
16:13
So I think when you think about it,
358
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1288
因此我想当你思考它的时候，
16:14
this tends to transfigure your views,
359
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2167
这将会使你有改变观点的倾向，
16:16
whereas what matters for ethical purposes
360
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2243
然而对于伦理目标
16:19
and moral considerations,
361
967203
1274
和道德考量来说
16:20
not so much the fact of consciousness,
362
968477
3077
最重要的不是关于意识的事实，
16:23
but the degree and the complexity of consciousness.
363
971554
3956
而是意识的程度和复杂性。
16:27
It's also natural to ask about consciousness
364
975510
1938
探讨其它系统，比如说电脑中的意识
16:29
in other systems, like computers.
365
977448
3050
也是一件很自然的事情。
16:32
What about the artificially intelligent system
366
980498
1789
比如说电影《她》中的
16:34
in the movie "Her," Samantha?
367
982287
3442
人工智能系统萨曼莎是什么情况？
16:37
Is she conscious?
368
985729
1400
她有意识吗？
16:39
Well, if you take the informational,
369
987129
1431
如果你用这种信息性的，
16:40
panpsychist view,
370
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1180
泛心论者的角度来看，
16:41
she certainly has complicated information processing
371
989740
3471
她的确能进行复杂的信息处理
16:45
and integration,
372
993211
1421
和整合，
16:46
so the answer is very likely yes, she is conscious.
373
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2667
所以答案很有可能是“是”，她是有意识的。
16:49
If that's right, it raises pretty serious
374
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2938
如果这个答案正确的话，
16:52
ethical issues about both the ethics
375
1000237
2365
那么不管是开发智能计算机系统
16:54
of developing intelligent computer systems
376
1002602
3521
或者关闭他们
16:58
and the ethics of turning them off.
377
1006123
2736
都会引起严重的伦理问题。
17:00
Finally, you might ask about the consciousness
378
1008859
2500
最后，你可能会询问
17:03
of whole groups,
379
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1882
集体意识、
17:05
the planet.
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行星的意识。
17:07
Does Canada have its own consciousness?
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加拿大有它自己的意识吗？
17:10
Or at a more local level,
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或者在一个更地方的层面来说，
17:12
does an integrated group
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一个由一场TED大会的听众
17:13
like the audience at a TED conference,
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所组成的集体
17:15
are we right now having a
collective TED consciousness,
collective TED consciousness,
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拥有集体的TED意识吗，
17:19
an inner movie
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这个TED集体
17:20
for this collective TED group
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的内在电影
17:23
which is distinct from the inner movies
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是与我们每个人自己
17:24
of each of our parts?
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的内在电影不同吗？
17:26
I don't know the answer to that question,
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我不知道这个问题的答案，
17:28
but I think it's at least one
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但我觉得至少它
17:29
worth taking seriously.
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值得重视。
17:32
Okay, so this panpsychist vision,
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好了，这就是泛心论者的观点，
17:34
it is a radical one,
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它是一个激进的想法，
17:36
and I don't know that it's correct.
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而我不知道它是否正确。
17:38
I'm actually more confident about
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事实上我对第一个疯狂想法
17:40
the first crazy idea,
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即意识是一种基本概念，
17:41
that consciousness is fundamental,
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要比对第二个疯狂想法
17:44
than about the second one,
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即意识是普遍存在的
17:45
that it's universal.
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要更有把握。
17:48
I mean, the view raises any number of questions,
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我的意思是，这个观点引起了很多问题，
17:50
has any number of challenges,
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拥有很多挑战，
17:51
like how do those little bits
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比如说那些小的意识
17:53
of consciousness add up
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是如何添加到
17:54
to the kind of complex consciousness
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我们了解和喜爱
17:57
we know and love.
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的复杂意识中去的。
17:59
If we can answer those questions,
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如果我们能够回答这些问题，
18:00
then I think we're going to be well on our way
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那么我想我们就会在通往
18:02
to a serious theory of consciousness.
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关于意识的严肃理论的道路上顺利走下去。
18:05
If not, well, this is the hardest problem perhaps
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如果不能，那么这可能成为
18:08
in science and philosophy.
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科学上和哲学上最难解的问题。
18:10
We can't expect to solve it overnight.
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我们不能期盼一个晚上就能解决这个问题。
18:14
But I do think we're going to figure it out eventually.
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但是我相信我们终将弄明白它。
18:17
Understanding consciousness is a real key, I think,
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我想，理解意识是
18:20
both to understanding the universe
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我们理解宇宙
18:23
and to understanding ourselves.
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和理解我们自己的一个关键。
18:25
It may just take the right crazy idea.
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而做到这一点也许只需要我们采用正确的疯狂想法。
18:28
Thank you.
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谢谢。
18:30
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David Chalmers - PhilosopherIn his work, David Chalmers explores the “hard problem of consciousness" -- the quest to explain our subjective experience.
Why you should listen
David Chalmers is a philosopher at the Australian National University and New York University. He works in philosophy of mind and in related areas of philosophy and cognitive science. While he's especially known for his theories on consciousness, he's also interested (and has extensively published) in all sorts of other issues in the foundations of cognitive science, the philosophy of language, metaphysics and epistemology.
Chalmers placed the "hard problem" of consciousness firmly on the philosophical map. He famously challenges materialist conceptions of mind, arguing for an "explanatory gap" between our brains’ physical properties and our minds’ qualia. Elsewhere he has championed the notion of the "extended mind," which argues that the mind is not confined to skin or skull, but plausibly may extend beyond them.
David Chalmers | Speaker | TED.com