TEDGlobal>London
Mathias Jud: Art that lets you talk back to NSA spies
马蒂亚斯·犹: 让你与安全局间谍通话的艺术
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2013年，据全球所知，美国安全局与英国通信总局对德国政府进行了日常监听。愤怒之时，艺术家马蒂亚斯·犹和克里斯托夫·沃切特认为：那好，如果他们在监听---就让我们回答他们。通过在柏林政府区的瑞士大使馆屋顶上搭建的天线，他们设置了一个公共的网络，能使得全世界向在附近监听的美英间谍发送信息。此举有三层意义，很有趣，也的确具有颠覆性，同时也向世界对监控和封闭网络的日益不满提出了疑问。
Mathias Jud - Artist
The work of artists Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter questions the limits of our communication possibilities and, therefore, of our identity. Full bio
The work of artists Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter questions the limits of our communication possibilities and, therefore, of our identity. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
一年前，我们受
瑞士驻柏林大使馆邀请
瑞士驻柏林大使馆邀请
00:12
A year ago, we were invited
by the Swiss Embassy in Berlin
by the Swiss Embassy in Berlin
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00:16
to present our art projects.
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来展示我们的艺术作品。
00:18
We are used to invitations,
but this invitation really thrilled us.
but this invitation really thrilled us.
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我们习惯了受邀，
但这次邀请却真正让我们激动不已。
但这次邀请却真正让我们激动不已。
00:23
The Swiss Embassy in Berlin is special.
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瑞士驻柏林大使馆很特别。
00:26
It is the only old building
in the government district
in the government district
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它是二战中未受摧毁的
00:29
that was not destroyed
during the Second World War,
during the Second World War,
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政府区域中的唯一
一座老建筑，
一座老建筑，
00:32
and it sits right next
to the Federal Chancellery.
to the Federal Chancellery.
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而且它就坐落在
联邦总理府的右侧。
联邦总理府的右侧。
00:35
No one is closer to Chancellor Merkel
than the Swiss diplomats.
than the Swiss diplomats.
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瑞士外交官们是
离德国总理默克尔最近的人了。
离德国总理默克尔最近的人了。
00:39
(Laughter)
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(笑声）
00:42
The government district in Berlin
also contains the Reichstag --
also contains the Reichstag --
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柏林的政府区也
包括德国国会大厦--
包括德国国会大厦--
00:46
Germany's parliament --
and the Brandenburg Gate,
and the Brandenburg Gate,
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德国的议会---
和勃兰登堡门，
和勃兰登堡门，
00:49
and right next to the gate
there are other embassies,
there are other embassies,
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其右侧是其他的大使馆，
00:52
in particular the US
and the British Embassy.
and the British Embassy.
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主要是美国和英国大使馆。
00:56
Although Germany is an advanced democracy,
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尽管德国是先进的民主制，
00:59
citizens are limited
in their constitutional rights
in their constitutional rights
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但市民在政府区
01:02
in its government district.
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享有的宪法权利是有限的。
01:04
The right of assembly and the right
to demonstrate are restricted there.
to demonstrate are restricted there.
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集会权和游行权在这里是受限的。
01:09
And this is interesting
from an artistic point of view.
from an artistic point of view.
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而这点从艺术的角度来看是有趣的。
01:13
The opportunities to exercise
participation and to express oneself
participation and to express oneself
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参与活动与表达自己的机会
01:18
are always bound to a certain order
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经常与一定的秩序密切关联
01:20
and always subject
to a specific regulation.
to a specific regulation.
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而且经常受到某个规定的影响。
01:23
With an awareness of the dependencies
of these regulations,
of these regulations,
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意识到对于这些规定的依赖性，
01:28
we can gain a new perspective.
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我们能获得一个新的视角。
01:31
The given terms and conditions
shape our perception, our actions
shape our perception, our actions
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给定的条款和条件塑造了
我们的看法，我们的行为
我们的看法，我们的行为
01:35
and our lives.
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以及我们的生活。
01:38
And this is crucial in another context.
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并且这在其他的背景下是关键的。
01:41
Over the last couple of years,
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在过去的几年里，
01:42
we learned that from the roofs
of the US and the British Embassy,
of the US and the British Embassy,
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我们了解到从美国和
英国大使馆的屋顶上，
英国大使馆的屋顶上，
01:47
the secret services have been listening
to the entire district,
to the entire district,
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特勤人员已经监听了整个区域，
01:52
including the mobile phone
of Angela Merkel.
of Angela Merkel.
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包括安格拉·默克尔的手机。
01:55
The antennas of the British GCHQ are
hidden in a white cylindrical radome,
hidden in a white cylindrical radome,
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英国国家通信总局的天线
藏在一个白色的圆筒形天线罩里，
藏在一个白色的圆筒形天线罩里，
02:00
while the listening post
of the American NSA
of the American NSA
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美国国家安全局的监听站
02:03
is covered by radio transparent screens.
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被无线电透明屏幕遮盖。
02:07
But how to address these hidden
and disguised forces?
and disguised forces?
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但是应该怎样与这些
隐藏的伪装势力对话呢？
隐藏的伪装势力对话呢？
02:10
With my colleague, Christoph Wachter,
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跟我的同事，克里斯托夫·沃切特一起，
02:13
we accepted the invitation
of the Swiss Embassy.
of the Swiss Embassy.
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我们接受了瑞士大使馆的邀请。
02:16
And we used this opportunity
to exploit the specific situation.
to exploit the specific situation.
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我们利用这次机会来探索
这个特殊情况。
这个特殊情况。
02:22
If people are spying on us,
it stands to reason
it stands to reason
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如果有人调查我们，
这应当意味着
这应当意味着
02:25
that they have to listen
to what we are saying.
to what we are saying.
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他们有不得不听的正当理由。
02:28
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:32
On the roof of the Swiss Embassy,
we installed a series of antennas.
we installed a series of antennas.
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在瑞士大使馆的屋顶上，
我们安装了一系列的天线。
我们安装了一系列的天线。
02:38
They weren't as sophisticated as those
used by the Americans and the British.
used by the Americans and the British.
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这些天线不如美国和英国
使用的那些先进。
使用的那些先进。
02:43
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:44
They were makeshift can antennas,
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这些天线凑合能用，
02:46
not camouflaged but totally
obvious and visible.
obvious and visible.
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也没有伪装和遮盖，
就完全是明显的可以看见的。
就完全是明显的可以看见的。
02:50
The Academy of Arts joined the project,
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艺术学院参与了这个项目，
02:52
and so we built another
large antenna on their rooftop,
large antenna on their rooftop,
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所以我们在它们的屋顶
建造了另一个大型天线，
建造了另一个大型天线，
02:56
exactly between the listening posts
of the NSA and the GCHQ.
of the NSA and the GCHQ.
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就正好在美国国家安全局
与英国国家通信总局的监听站中间。
与英国国家通信总局的监听站中间。
03:00
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:02
Never have we been observed in such detail
while building an art installation.
while building an art installation.
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我们从来都没试过在建造一个
艺术建筑时受到如此细致的观察。
艺术建筑时受到如此细致的观察。
03:07
A helicopter circled over our heads
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一架直升机在我们头顶盘旋，
03:09
with a camera registering
each and every move we made,
each and every move we made,
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一台摄像机记录了我们每个动作，
03:12
and on the roof of the US Embassy,
security officers patrolled.
security officers patrolled.
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而且在美国大使馆的屋顶上，
有保安人员在巡逻。
有保安人员在巡逻。
03:17
Although the government district
is governed by a strict police order,
is governed by a strict police order,
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虽然政府区由一个严格的
警察秩序在管理，
警察秩序在管理，
03:22
there are no specific laws
relating to digital communication.
relating to digital communication.
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但仍然没有数字通信相关的
特定法律。
特定法律。
03:27
Our installation
was therefore perfectly legal,
was therefore perfectly legal,
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因此我们的安装是完全合法的，
03:31
and the Swiss Ambassador
informed Chancellor Merkel about it.
informed Chancellor Merkel about it.
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而且瑞士大使把这件事
告知了默尔克总理。
告知了默尔克总理。
03:35
We named the project "Can You Hear Me?"
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我们把这个工程叫做
“你能听到我吗？”
“你能听到我吗？”
03:38
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:40
The antennas created an open
and free Wi-Fi communication network
and free Wi-Fi communication network
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我们的天线创造了一个公开
免费的无线通信网络
免费的无线通信网络
03:45
in which anyone who wanted to
would be able to participate
would be able to participate
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使得任何以前想或将要参与的人
03:48
using any Wi-Fi-enabled device
without any hindrance,
without any hindrance,
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能够使用任何的无线设备，
没有任何阻碍地
没有任何阻碍地
03:51
and be able to send messages
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发信息
03:53
to those listening on the frequencies
that were being intercepted.
that were being intercepted.
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给那些在监听截获频率的人。
03:58
Text messages, voice chat, file sharing --
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文字信息，语音聊天，文件共享---
04:01
anything could be sent anonymously.
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任何东西都可以匿名发送。
04:04
And people did communicate.
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而且人们也这样交流了。
04:07
Over 15,000 messages were sent.
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超过一万五千条的信息被发出。
04:10
Here are some examples.
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举几个例子。
04:13
"Hello world, hello Berlin,
hello NSA, hello GCHQ."
hello NSA, hello GCHQ."
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“世界你好，柏林你好，
国家安全总局你好，国家通信总局你好。“
国家安全总局你好，国家通信总局你好。“
04:19
"NSA Agents, Do the Right Thing!
Blow the whistle!"
Blow the whistle!"
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“安全局的人，做该做的事！
去告你的密吧！”
去告你的密吧！”
04:24
"This is the NSA. In God we trust.
All others we track!!!!!"
All others we track!!!!!"
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“这是国家安全总局。我们只相信上帝。
其他的我们都跟踪！！！”
其他的我们都跟踪！！！”
04:28
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:32
"#@nonymous is watching #NSA #GCHQ -
we are part of your organizations.
we are part of your organizations.
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“#@匿名者正在监视#国家安全总局
#国家通信总局-我们是你们的人。
#国家通信总局-我们是你们的人。
04:36
# expect us. We will #shutdown"
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#期待我们。我们会#关门大吉”
04:39
"This is the NSA's Achilles heel.
Open Networks."
Open Networks."
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“这是国家安全总局的弱点。
打开网络。”
打开网络。”
04:42
"Agents, what twisted story of yourself
will you tell your grandchildren?"
will you tell your grandchildren?"
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“间谍们，你将来会给你的孙子
讲什么关于自己的变态故事？”
讲什么关于自己的变态故事？”
04:48
"@NSA My neighbors are noisy.
Please send a drone strike."
Please send a drone strike."
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“国家安全总局，我的邻居太吵了。
请派一架无人机来袭击他们。”
请派一架无人机来袭击他们。”
04:52
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:56
"Make Love, Not cyberwar."
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“制造浪漫，但别制造网络战争。”
04:59
We invited the embassies
and the government departments
and the government departments
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我们也邀请了大使馆和政府部门
05:02
to participate in the open network, too,
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参与到公共的网络中，
05:05
and to our surprise, they did.
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令我们的惊讶的是，
它们竟然加入了。
它们竟然加入了。
05:07
Files appeared on the network,
including classified documents
including classified documents
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文件出现在网络上，
包括从议会调查委员会泄露出去的
包括从议会调查委员会泄露出去的
05:10
leaked from the parliamentary
investigation commission,
investigation commission,
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机密文件，
05:12
which highlights that the free exchange
and discussion of vital information
and discussion of vital information
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文件强调重要信息的
自由交流和讨论
自由交流和讨论
05:16
is starting to become difficult,
even for members of a parliament.
even for members of a parliament.
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开始变得困难，
即使是在议会成员中。
即使是在议会成员中。
05:21
We also organized guided tours
to experience and sound out
to experience and sound out
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我们还组织了导游
来体验和探索
来体验和探索
05:25
the power constellations on-site.
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现场的通信体系。
05:27
The tours visited the restricted zones
around the embassies,
around the embassies,
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参观团拜访了使馆
周围的限制区，
周围的限制区，
05:30
and we discussed the potential
and the highlights of communication.
and the highlights of communication.
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我们讨论了通信的潜力和重点。
05:36
If we become aware of the constellation,
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如果我们开始意识到通信的体系，
05:40
the terms and conditions of communication,
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条款和条件，
05:43
it not only broadens our horizon,
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这不仅能开阔我们的视野，
05:45
it allows us to look behind
the regulations that limit our worldview,
the regulations that limit our worldview,
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还能帮我们探寻
那些限制我们视角的规定的背后，
那些限制我们视角的规定的背后，
05:49
our specific social, political
or aesthetic conventions.
or aesthetic conventions.
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我们特定的社会，政治
或者审美的惯例。
或者审美的惯例。
05:54
Let's look at an actual example.
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我们来看一个实际例子。
05:57
The fate of people living
in the makeshift settlements
in the makeshift settlements
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在巴黎郊区
06:00
on the outskirts of Paris
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的临时定居点生活的
人们的命运
人们的命运
06:02
is hidden and faded from view.
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被隐藏并逐渐从人们的视角
中消褪。
中消褪。
06:05
It's a vicious circle.
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这是一个恶性循环。
06:07
It's not poverty, not racism,
not exclusion that are new.
not exclusion that are new.
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新鲜的不是贫穷，不是种族主义，
也不是被排外。
也不是被排外。
06:10
What is new is how
these realities are hidden
these realities are hidden
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新鲜的是这些事实是如何被隐藏的，
06:14
and how people are made invisible
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新鲜的是在这个全球通信交流
如此发达的时代，
如此发达的时代，
06:15
in an age of global and overwhelming
communication and exchange.
communication and exchange.
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这些人是如何变隐形的。
06:20
Such makeshift settlements
are considered illegal,
are considered illegal,
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这样的临时定居点
被看作是非法的，
被看作是非法的，
06:23
and therefore those living in them
don't have a chance
don't have a chance
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因此住在这里的人
没有机会
没有机会
06:26
of making their voices heard.
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发出自己的声音。
06:28
On the contrary, every time they appear,
every time they risk becoming visible,
every time they risk becoming visible,
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相反，每次他们的出现，
每次他们冒着暴露的危险，
每次他们冒着暴露的危险，
06:34
merely gives grounds
for further persecution,
for further persecution,
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仅仅是给出更多的理由
去进一步迫害，
去进一步迫害，
06:36
expulsion and suppression.
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驱逐和压制他们。
06:38
What interested us was how we could
come to know this hidden side.
come to know this hidden side.
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我们感兴趣的是我们如何
能去了解这隐藏的一面。
能去了解这隐藏的一面。
06:44
We were searching for an interface
and we found one.
and we found one.
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我们在寻找一个接口，
而且我们找到了一个。
而且我们找到了一个。
06:47
It's not a digital interface,
but a physical one: it's a hotel.
but a physical one: it's a hotel.
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这并不是一个数字接口，
而是一个存在的实体：是一个旅馆。
而是一个存在的实体：是一个旅馆。
06:51
We named the project "Hotel Gelem."
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我们把这个项目起名为
“Gelem 旅馆”
“Gelem 旅馆”
06:54
Together with Roma families,
we created several Hotel Gelems in Europe,
we created several Hotel Gelems in Europe,
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与罗姆人家庭一起，
我们在欧洲创建了几个Gelem 旅馆，
我们在欧洲创建了几个Gelem 旅馆，
06:58
for example, in Freiburg in Germany,
in Montreuil near Paris,
in Montreuil near Paris,
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比如，在德国的弗赖堡，
在巴黎附近的蒙特勒伊，
在巴黎附近的蒙特勒伊，
07:01
and also in the Balkans.
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在巴尔干也有。
07:03
These are real hotels.
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这是真正的旅馆。
07:04
People can stay there.
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人们可以住在那里。
07:06
But they aren't a commercial enterprise.
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但是它们不是一个商业性的企业。
07:08
They are a symbol.
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它们是一个象征。
07:10
You can go online and ask
for a personal invitation
for a personal invitation
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你可以在网上进行个人预约，
07:14
to come and live for a few days
in the Hotel Gelem, in their homes,
in the Hotel Gelem, in their homes,
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预约来旅馆住上几天，
07:18
eating, working and living
with the Roma families.
with the Roma families.
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在这里吃，工作，
与罗姆人家庭一起生活。
与罗姆人家庭一起生活。
07:22
Here, the Roma families
are not the travelers;
are not the travelers;
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在这里，罗姆人家庭不是旅行者；
07:25
the visitors are.
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而参观者们是。
07:27
Here, the Roma families
are not a minority;
are not a minority;
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在这里，罗姆人家庭不是少数民族；
07:30
the visitors are.
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而参观者们是。
07:33
The point is not to make judgments,
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意义并不在于做出评判，
07:37
but rather to find out
about the context that determines
about the context that determines
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而在于找出那些能确定
07:40
these disparate and seemingly
insurmountable contradictions.
insurmountable contradictions.
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这些不同的而且看似不可逾越的
矛盾的相关因素。
矛盾的相关因素。
07:44
In the world of globalization,
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在全球化的世界里，
07:46
the continents are drifting
closer to each other.
closer to each other.
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各大洲的距离在拉近。
07:49
Cultures, goods and people
are in permanent exchange,
are in permanent exchange,
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文化，商品和人
在进行永恒的交流，
在进行永恒的交流，
07:51
but at the same time, the gap
between the world of the privileged
between the world of the privileged
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但与此同时，存在于特权世界
07:55
and the world of the excluded is growing.
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和被排外世界之间的差距在增长。
07:59
We were recently in Australia.
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最近我们在澳大利亚。
08:01
For us, it was no problem
to enter the country.
to enter the country.
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对于我们来说，
进入这个国家不难。
进入这个国家不难。
08:03
We have European passports,
visas and air tickets.
visas and air tickets.
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我们有欧洲护照，
签证和机票。
签证和机票。
08:07
But asylum seekers who arrive
by boat in Australia
by boat in Australia
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但是那些乘船到澳大利亚
寻求避难的人
寻求避难的人
08:10
are deported or taken to prison.
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会被驱逐或关进监狱。
08:13
The interception of the boats
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船只的截获
08:14
and the disappearance of the people
into the detention system
into the detention system
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以及人们在拘留所里消失
的事实
的事实
08:17
are veiled by the Australian authorities.
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都被澳大利亚政府隐藏了。
08:21
These procedures are declared
to be secret military operations.
to be secret military operations.
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这些行动对外宣称是
秘密的军事行动。
秘密的军事行动。
08:25
After dramatic escapes
from crisis zones and war zones,
from crisis zones and war zones,
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在经历过从危机和战争区
的大逃亡后，
的大逃亡后，
08:28
men, women and children
are detained by Australia without trial,
are detained by Australia without trial,
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男人，女人和孩子们
在没有审判的情况下被澳拘留，
在没有审判的情况下被澳拘留，
08:33
sometimes for years.
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有时一拘就是几年。
08:37
During our stay, however,
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然而，在我们停留的时候，
08:39
we managed to reach out and work
with asylum seekers who were imprisoned,
with asylum seekers who were imprisoned,
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虽然有严格的筛选和隔离
08:43
despite strict screening and isolation.
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我们仍设法联系并见到了
被拘禁的寻求避难者。
被拘禁的寻求避难者。
08:46
From these contexts was born
an installation in the art space
an installation in the art space
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在这样的背景下，一件作品
08:50
of the Queensland University
of Technology in Brisbane.
of Technology in Brisbane.
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在布里斯班的昆士兰科技大学
的艺术广场诞生了。
的艺术广场诞生了。
08:54
On the face of it,
it was a very simple installation.
it was a very simple installation.
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从正面看，
这是一个很简单的装置。
这是一个很简单的装置。
08:58
On the floor, a stylized compass
gave the direction
gave the direction
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在地面上，一个程式化的指南针
给出方向，
给出方向，
09:01
to each immigration detention center,
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指向每一个移民拘留中心，
09:03
accompanied by the distance
and the name of the immigration facility.
and the name of the immigration facility.
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并伴有移民局的距离和名称。
09:08
But the exhibition step
came in the form of connectivity.
came in the form of connectivity.
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但是展览梯是以连通的形式呈现的。
09:12
Above every floor marking,
there was a headset.
there was a headset.
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在每个楼层标识上，
都有一个耳麦装置。
都有一个耳麦装置。
09:16
Visitors were offered the opportunity
to talk directly to a refugee
to talk directly to a refugee
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参观者有机会直接与难民对话，
09:20
who was or had been imprisoned
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这些难民都是在某个拘留所
09:23
in a specific detention facility
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被监禁或已被监禁很久的，
09:25
and engage in a personal conversation.
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参观者可与他们进行个人对话。
09:28
In the protected context
of the art exhibition,
of the art exhibition,
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在受艺术展览保护的情况下，
09:31
asylum seekers felt free
to talk about themselves,
to talk about themselves,
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寻求避难者可以自由地谈论自己，
09:34
their story and their situation,
without fear of consequences.
without fear of consequences.
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谈论自己的故事，现状，
不用惧怕由此产生的后果。
不用惧怕由此产生的后果。
09:38
Visitors immersed themselves
in long conversations
in long conversations
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参观者都投入到对话很久，
09:41
about families torn apart,
about dramatic escapes from war zones,
about dramatic escapes from war zones,
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谈论关于家破人亡，
关于从战争区的大逃亡，
关于从战争区的大逃亡，
09:45
about suicide attempts,
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关于难民的自杀倾向，
09:47
about the fate of children in detention.
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关于在拘禁中的儿童的命运。
09:50
Emotions ran deep. Many wept.
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感情至深处，很多人都哭了。
09:52
Several revisited the exhibition.
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很多人再次造访展览。
09:55
It was a powerful experience.
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这是一次很有影响力的经历。
09:58
Europe is now facing a stream of migrants.
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欧洲正面临着一大批移民。
10:03
The situation for the asylum seekers
is made worse by contradictory policies
is made worse by contradictory policies
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寻求避难者的现状因为
10:07
and the temptation
of militarized responses.
of militarized responses.
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矛盾的政策以及军事化反应
的推动变得更糟。
的推动变得更糟。
10:11
We have also established
communication systems
communication systems
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我们已经在瑞士和希腊
的偏远难民营
的偏远难民营
10:14
in remote refugee centers
in Switzerland and Greece.
in Switzerland and Greece.
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建立了通信系统。
10:17
They are all about providing
basic information -- medical costs,
basic information -- medical costs,
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这些系统的作用在于
提供基本信息---医疗费用，
提供基本信息---医疗费用，
10:20
legal information, guidance.
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法律信息，指导。
10:23
But they are significant.
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但这些信息很重要。
10:25
Information on the Internet
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网络上的那些
10:26
that could ensure survival
along dangerous routes
along dangerous routes
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能确保在危险路径
上传播的信息
上传播的信息
10:29
is being censored,
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受到了审查，
10:30
and the provision of such information
is becoming increasingly criminalized.
is becoming increasingly criminalized.
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而且提供这种信息的行为
逐渐变成一种犯罪。
逐渐变成一种犯罪。
10:36
This brings us back to our network
and to the antennas
and to the antennas
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这使得我们回到我们在
10:39
on the roof of the Swiss Embassy in Berlin
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驻柏林瑞士大使馆屋顶上
建造的网络和天线，
建造的网络和天线，
10:41
and the "Can You Hear Me?" project.
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回到我们的“你能听到我吗？”
这个项目。
这个项目。
10:44
We should not take it for granted
to be boundlessly connected.
to be boundlessly connected.
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我们不应该将无限连接
视为理所当然。
视为理所当然。
10:47
We should start making
our own connections,
our own connections,
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我们应该开始制造
自己的连接，
自己的连接，
10:50
fighting for this idea of an equal
and globally interconnected world.
and globally interconnected world.
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为建立一个平等的
全球互联的世界而奋斗。
全球互联的世界而奋斗。
10:54
This is essential to overcome
our speechlessness
our speechlessness
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这对于战胜我们的话语无能，
10:57
and the separation provoked
by rival political forces.
by rival political forces.
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战胜由对立的政治力量
造成的分化非常重要。
造成的分化非常重要。
11:00
It is only in truly exposing ourselves
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只有将我们自己真正暴露于
11:04
to the transformative power
of this experience
of this experience
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这种经历的变革力量面前，
11:06
that we can overcome
prejudice and exclusion.
prejudice and exclusion.
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我们才能够战胜偏见和排外。
11:10
Thank you.
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谢谢大家。
11:11
(Applause)
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（观众鼓掌）
11:16
Bruno Giussani: Thank you, Mathias.
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布鲁诺·朱萨尼：谢谢你，马蒂亚斯
11:18
The other half of your
artistic duo is also here.
artistic duo is also here.
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与你一起创造艺术的同事
也在这里。
也在这里。
11:20
Christoph Wachter, come onstage.
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克里斯托夫·沃切特，请到台上来。
11:22
(Applause)
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（观众鼓掌）
11:27
First, tell me just a detail:
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首先，告诉我一个细节：
11:29
the name of the hotel
is not a random name.
is not a random name.
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旅馆的名字不是一个随便起的名字。
11:31
Gelem means something specific
in the Roma language.
in the Roma language.
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Gelem 在罗马语中有特殊意义。
11:34
Mathias Jud: Yes, "Gelem, Gelem"
is the title of the Romani hymn,
is the title of the Romani hymn,
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马蒂亚斯·犹：是的，"Gelem, Gelem"
是罗姆赞歌的标题，
是罗姆赞歌的标题，
11:39
the official, and it means
"I went a long way."
"I went a long way."
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官方的标题，而且它的意思是
“我走了很长的路”。
“我走了很长的路”。
11:42
BG: That's just to add
the detail to your talk.
the detail to your talk.
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布鲁诺·朱萨尼：这只是给
你的演讲补充了一个细节。
你的演讲补充了一个细节。
11:45
But you two traveled
to the island of Lesbos
to the island of Lesbos
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但是你们俩去了莱斯沃斯岛，
11:47
very recently, you're just back
a couple of days ago,
a couple of days ago,
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就在最近，你们刚回来几天，
11:50
in Greece, where thousands
of refugees are arriving
of refugees are arriving
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在希腊，成千上万的难民
陆续抵达，
陆续抵达，
11:53
and have been arriving
over the last few months.
over the last few months.
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在过去的几个月里一直有。
11:55
What did you see there
and what did you do there?
and what did you do there?
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你们在那里看到了什么，
做了什么？
做了什么？
11:57
Christoph Wachter: Well, Lesbos is one
of the Greek islands close to Turkey,
of the Greek islands close to Turkey,
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克里斯托夫·沃切特：莱斯沃斯岛
是希腊群岛中比较接近土耳其的，
是希腊群岛中比较接近土耳其的，
12:01
and during our stay,
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我们在那的时候，
12:03
many asylum seekers arrived by boat
on overcrowded dinghies,
on overcrowded dinghies,
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很多难民乘坐
拥挤的小艇到达，
拥挤的小艇到达，
12:08
and after landing, they were left
completely on their own.
completely on their own.
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登陆后，他们就只能靠自己了。
12:12
They are denied many services.
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很多服务都拒绝提供给他们。
12:16
For example, they are not allowed
to buy a bus ticket
to buy a bus ticket
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例如，他们不能买公交车票，
12:18
or to rent a hotel room,
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不能租住旅馆房间，
12:19
so many families literally
sleep in the streets.
sleep in the streets.
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因此很多家庭直接
就睡在马路上。
就睡在马路上。
12:24
And we installed networks there
to allow basic communication,
to allow basic communication,
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然后我们在那安装了网络
进行最基本的通信，
进行最基本的通信，
12:29
because I think, I believe,
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因为我认为，我相信，
12:31
it's not only that we have to speak
about the refugees,
about the refugees,
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5439
不仅是因为我们要做
关于难民的演讲，
关于难民的演讲，
12:36
I think we need to start talking to them.
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我想我们要开始与他们对话。
12:40
And by doing so, we can realize
that it is about human beings,
that it is about human beings,
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通过与他们对话，我们能认识到
这有关人类，
这有关人类，
12:44
about their lives
and their struggle to survive.
and their struggle to survive.
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有关他们的生活，
而且有关他们为生存进行的斗争。
而且有关他们为生存进行的斗争。
12:47
BG: And allow them to talk as well.
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布鲁诺·朱萨尼：
同时也让他们拥有话语权。
同时也让他们拥有话语权。
12:49
Christoph, thank you for coming to TED.
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克里斯托夫，感谢你来到TED。
12:50
Mathias, thank you for coming to TED
and sharing your story.
and sharing your story.
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马蒂亚斯，感谢你来到TED
跟大家分享你们的故事。
跟大家分享你们的故事。
12:54
(Applause)
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（观众鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mathias Jud - ArtistThe work of artists Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter questions the limits of our communication possibilities and, therefore, of our identity.
Why you should listen
Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter combine the power of online collaboration with activism to produce their artistic vision.
In Berlin (where they live), they created an open mesh network in the government district, allowing citizens to send messages to the NSA and GCHQ, whose known listening posts are there. With their "Hotel Gelem" project, the duo commented on racism and exclusion by inviting visitors to stay in the homes of Roma families -- a culture familiar with the idea of displacement. And in Australia at the Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, the two created an installation which allowed visitors to interract with refugees detained in the country.
"We should start making our own connections, fighting for this idea of an equal and globally interconnected world," Jud says. "This is essential to overcome our speechlessness and the separation provoked by rival political forces."
Mathias Jud | Speaker | TED.com