TEDGlobal>London
Mathias Jud: Art that lets you talk back to NSA spies
馬蒂亞斯．猶: 讓你與國家安全局對話的藝術
Filmed:
Readability: 5.5
993,011 views
2013年，美國國安局和與英國政府通信總局，對德國政府的例行監聽事件舉世嘩然。在這一暴行下，藝術家 Mathias Jud和Christoph Wachter想到：好吧！如果他們正在監聽……讓我們與其對話吧。透過在柏林政府區的瑞士大使館屋頂上架設的天線，他們設置了一個開放的網絡，可以讓全世界向那些正在附近竊聽的英美間諜們發送訊息。在這次演講中，他們透過一段有趣的黑體文字、坦率的顛覆性作品，來質疑引起全世界日益不滿的監聽行為與封閉式網絡。
Mathias Jud - Artist
The work of artists Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter questions the limits of our communication possibilities and, therefore, of our identity. Full bio
The work of artists Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter questions the limits of our communication possibilities and, therefore, of our identity. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
A year ago, we were invited
by the Swiss Embassy in Berlin
by the Swiss Embassy in Berlin
0
999
3342
一年前，
我們應瑞士大使館的邀請，
我們應瑞士大使館的邀請，
00:16
to present our art projects.
1
4365
2023
在柏林展示我們的藝術作品。
00:18
We are used to invitations,
but this invitation really thrilled us.
but this invitation really thrilled us.
2
6999
4134
我們習慣了受邀，
但這次邀請卻真正讓我們激動不已。
但這次邀請卻真正讓我們激動不已。
00:23
The Swiss Embassy in Berlin is special.
3
11586
2841
柏林的瑞士大使館非常特別。
00:26
It is the only old building
in the government district
in the government district
4
14451
2968
它是政府區內唯一一座
00:29
that was not destroyed
during the Second World War,
during the Second World War,
5
17443
2956
沒有毀於二戰的古老建築，
00:32
and it sits right next
to the Federal Chancellery.
to the Federal Chancellery.
6
20423
2768
它就坐落在聯邦總理大樓的右邊。
00:35
No one is closer to Chancellor Merkel
than the Swiss diplomats.
than the Swiss diplomats.
7
23723
4116
沒有人比瑞士的外交官們
更貼近默克爾總理。
更貼近默克爾總理。
00:39
(Laughter)
8
27863
1976
（笑聲）
00:42
The government district in Berlin
also contains the Reichstag --
also contains the Reichstag --
9
30656
3819
柏林的政府區同樣包含了
00:46
Germany's parliament --
and the Brandenburg Gate,
and the Brandenburg Gate,
10
34499
2811
德國議會大廈（Reichstag）
和布蘭登堡門，
和布蘭登堡門，
00:49
and right next to the gate
there are other embassies,
there are other embassies,
11
37334
2941
而緊鄰布蘭登堡門右側的
是其他國家的大使館，
是其他國家的大使館，
00:52
in particular the US
and the British Embassy.
and the British Embassy.
12
40299
3397
主要是美國和英國大使館。
00:56
Although Germany is an advanced democracy,
13
44657
3216
即便德國是一個民主發達國家，
00:59
citizens are limited
in their constitutional rights
in their constitutional rights
14
47897
2961
但公民在政府區內
的憲法權益卻倍受約束。
01:02
in its government district.
15
50882
1393
01:04
The right of assembly and the right
to demonstrate are restricted there.
to demonstrate are restricted there.
16
52299
4387
集會權和遊行權
在這一區域是受限制的。
在這一區域是受限制的。
01:09
And this is interesting
from an artistic point of view.
from an artistic point of view.
17
57607
3668
以一個藝術家的角度來看
這十分耐人尋味。
這十分耐人尋味。
01:13
The opportunities to exercise
participation and to express oneself
participation and to express oneself
18
61299
4712
集會活動及表達自己的機會
01:18
are always bound to a certain order
19
66035
2240
常受限於某項命令
01:20
and always subject
to a specific regulation.
to a specific regulation.
20
68299
3475
且常受限於某些規定。
01:23
With an awareness of the dependencies
of these regulations,
of these regulations,
21
71798
4759
意識到對於這些規定的依賴性，
01:28
we can gain a new perspective.
22
76581
2694
我們能獲得一個新的觀點。
01:31
The given terms and conditions
shape our perception, our actions
shape our perception, our actions
23
79299
4654
這些給定的條款與限制
塑造了我們的看法、行為
塑造了我們的看法、行為
01:35
and our lives.
24
83977
1587
以及我們的生活。
01:38
And this is crucial in another context.
25
86168
3107
而這在另一個背景裡是關鍵的。
01:41
Over the last couple of years,
26
89299
1478
過去的幾年裡，
01:42
we learned that from the roofs
of the US and the British Embassy,
of the US and the British Embassy,
27
90801
4474
我們了解到從美國和
英國大使館的屋頂上，
英國大使館的屋頂上，
01:47
the secret services have been listening
to the entire district,
to the entire district,
28
95299
4737
特務機關已經竊聽了整個區域，
01:52
including the mobile phone
of Angela Merkel.
of Angela Merkel.
29
100060
2696
包括安格拉．默克爾的手機。
01:55
The antennas of the British GCHQ are
hidden in a white cylindrical radome,
hidden in a white cylindrical radome,
30
103299
4976
英國政府通信總局的天線
藏在一個白色的圓柱形天線罩下，
藏在一個白色的圓柱形天線罩下，
02:00
while the listening post
of the American NSA
of the American NSA
31
108299
3017
而美國國安局的竊聽站
02:03
is covered by radio transparent screens.
32
111340
2959
被無線電透明屏幕遮蓋。
02:07
But how to address these hidden
and disguised forces?
and disguised forces?
33
115342
2933
但要如何解決這些
隱藏且偽裝的武力呢？
隱藏且偽裝的武力呢？
02:10
With my colleague, Christoph Wachter,
34
118903
2372
我和我的同事 Christoph Wachter，
02:13
we accepted the invitation
of the Swiss Embassy.
of the Swiss Embassy.
35
121299
2603
接受了瑞士大使館的邀約。
02:16
And we used this opportunity
to exploit the specific situation.
to exploit the specific situation.
36
124783
4103
我們利用這次機會
來探索這個特殊情況。
來探索這個特殊情況。
02:22
If people are spying on us,
it stands to reason
it stands to reason
37
130508
3142
如果有人要監聽我們，那是因為，
02:25
that they have to listen
to what we are saying.
to what we are saying.
38
133674
2601
他們有不得不聽的理由。
02:28
(Laughter)
39
136299
3976
（笑聲）
02:32
On the roof of the Swiss Embassy,
we installed a series of antennas.
we installed a series of antennas.
40
140299
4000
在瑞士大使館的屋頂，
我們安裝了一系列的天線。
我們安裝了一系列的天線。
02:38
They weren't as sophisticated as those
used by the Americans and the British.
used by the Americans and the British.
41
146729
4254
它們沒有美國和英國
用的那樣精密。
用的那樣精密。
02:43
(Laughter)
42
151007
1267
（笑聲）
02:44
They were makeshift can antennas,
43
152298
1723
這些臨時的天線湊合還能用，
02:46
not camouflaged but totally
obvious and visible.
obvious and visible.
44
154045
2989
沒有偽裝和遮蓋，
就完全是明顯可見的。
就完全是明顯可見的。
02:50
The Academy of Arts joined the project,
45
158299
2495
藝術學院參與了這個項目，
02:52
and so we built another
large antenna on their rooftop,
large antenna on their rooftop,
46
160818
3690
因此我們在學院屋頂上
架設了另一個大型天線，
架設了另一個大型天線，
02:56
exactly between the listening posts
of the NSA and the GCHQ.
of the NSA and the GCHQ.
47
164532
4018
恰好就在美國國安局和
英國通信總局的監聽站中間。
英國通信總局的監聽站中間。
03:00
(Laughter)
48
168574
1856
（笑聲）
03:02
Never have we been observed in such detail
while building an art installation.
while building an art installation.
49
170454
4821
我們從來沒有在創作一個藝術作品時
被觀察地那麼仔細。
被觀察地那麼仔細。
03:07
A helicopter circled over our heads
50
175299
2252
一架直升機在我們的頭頂盤旋，
03:09
with a camera registering
each and every move we made,
each and every move we made,
51
177575
3230
並用攝影機記錄下我們的一舉一動，
03:12
and on the roof of the US Embassy,
security officers patrolled.
security officers patrolled.
52
180829
3210
在美國大使館的屋頂上有
保全人員在巡邏。
保全人員在巡邏。
03:17
Although the government district
is governed by a strict police order,
is governed by a strict police order,
53
185499
5189
雖然政府區域有嚴苛的治安條令，
03:22
there are no specific laws
relating to digital communication.
relating to digital communication.
54
190712
4159
但卻沒有明確的條令限制
數位通訊，
數位通訊，
因此我們的安裝是完全合法的，
03:27
Our installation
was therefore perfectly legal,
was therefore perfectly legal,
55
195548
3483
03:31
and the Swiss Ambassador
informed Chancellor Merkel about it.
informed Chancellor Merkel about it.
56
199055
3197
而且瑞士大使也向總理
默克爾知會了此事。
默克爾知會了此事。
03:35
We named the project "Can You Hear Me?"
57
203101
2879
我們把這個項目定名為
“ 你能聽見我說話嗎？ ”
“ 你能聽見我說話嗎？ ”
03:38
(Laughter)
58
206004
1976
（笑聲）
03:40
The antennas created an open
and free Wi-Fi communication network
and free Wi-Fi communication network
59
208805
4261
我們的天線創造了一個公開
免費的無線通訊網絡，
免費的無線通訊網絡，
03:45
in which anyone who wanted to
would be able to participate
would be able to participate
60
213090
3185
任何想要連接上去的人，
03:48
using any Wi-Fi-enabled device
without any hindrance,
without any hindrance,
61
216299
3112
都可以用具有WIFI功能的設備
進行無障礙連接，
進行無障礙連接，
03:51
and be able to send messages
62
219435
1921
連接後就可以向
03:53
to those listening on the frequencies
that were being intercepted.
that were being intercepted.
63
221380
4080
正在監聽截獲頻率的人傳簡訊。
03:58
Text messages, voice chat, file sharing --
64
226510
2495
文字信息、語音聊天、文件共享---
04:01
anything could be sent anonymously.
65
229029
2649
任何東西都可以匿名傳送。
04:04
And people did communicate.
66
232852
2423
人們以此來傳達溝通，
04:07
Over 15,000 messages were sent.
67
235299
2976
傳送了超過1萬5千封簡訊。
04:10
Here are some examples.
68
238299
1752
這裡舉幾個例子。
04:13
"Hello world, hello Berlin,
hello NSA, hello GCHQ."
hello NSA, hello GCHQ."
69
241299
4512
“你好世界，你好柏林
你好美國國安局，你好英國通訊總局。”
你好美國國安局，你好英國通訊總局。”
04:19
"NSA Agents, Do the Right Thing!
Blow the whistle!"
Blow the whistle!"
70
247208
4091
“美國國安局的特工們，
做該做的事！去告密吧！”
做該做的事！去告密吧！”
04:24
"This is the NSA. In God we trust.
All others we track!!!!!"
All others we track!!!!!"
71
252884
3704
“這裡是美國國安局，我們只相信上帝。
其他的我們都跟踪！！！！！！”
其他的我們都跟踪！！！！！！”
04:28
(Laughter)
72
256612
2252
（笑聲）
04:32
"#@nonymous is watching #NSA #GCHQ -
we are part of your organizations.
we are part of your organizations.
73
260233
4042
“#@匿名者正在看著#美國國安局
#英國通訊總局—我們跟你是同夥的。
#英國通訊總局—我們跟你是同夥的。
04:36
# expect us. We will #shutdown"
74
264299
2000
#期待我們。我們會#死當”
04:39
"This is the NSA's Achilles heel.
Open Networks."
Open Networks."
75
267483
3460
“這裡是美國國安局阿基里斯的腳踝
（致命傷），開放網路。”
（致命傷），開放網路。”
04:42
"Agents, what twisted story of yourself
will you tell your grandchildren?"
will you tell your grandchildren?"
76
270967
4738
“特工們，你將來會給你的兒孫
講哪些自己的變態故事呢？”
講哪些自己的變態故事呢？”
04:48
"@NSA My neighbors are noisy.
Please send a drone strike."
Please send a drone strike."
77
276454
4416
“@美國國安局，我的鄰居太吵了。
請派一架無人機解決他們。”
請派一架無人機解決他們。”
04:52
(Laughter)
78
280894
2452
（笑聲）
04:56
"Make Love, Not cyberwar."
79
284529
2311
“要愛但不要網路戰爭。”
04:59
We invited the embassies
and the government departments
and the government departments
80
287602
2673
我們也邀請了大使館和政府部門
05:02
to participate in the open network, too,
81
290299
2806
參與到這個開放的網路中，
05:05
and to our surprise, they did.
82
293129
1913
而另我們驚訝的是，
他們真的加入了。
他們真的加入了。
05:07
Files appeared on the network,
including classified documents
including classified documents
83
295066
2920
文件出現在網絡上，
包括從議會調查委員會
洩露出來的機密文件，
洩露出來的機密文件，
05:10
leaked from the parliamentary
investigation commission,
investigation commission,
84
298010
2618
05:12
which highlights that the free exchange
and discussion of vital information
and discussion of vital information
85
300652
3690
這也點出了自由地交換
和討論重要資訊
和討論重要資訊
05:16
is starting to become difficult,
even for members of a parliament.
even for members of a parliament.
86
304366
4340
開始變得困難，
即使是議會的成員。
即使是議會的成員。
05:21
We also organized guided tours
to experience and sound out
to experience and sound out
87
309746
3322
我們還組織了有解說的
遊覽行程來體驗和探索
遊覽行程來體驗和探索
現場的一系列的人事物。
05:25
the power constellations on-site.
88
313092
2050
05:27
The tours visited the restricted zones
around the embassies,
around the embassies,
89
315166
3337
參觀團拜訪了大使館
周圍的限制區，
周圍的限制區，
05:30
and we discussed the potential
and the highlights of communication.
and the highlights of communication.
90
318527
4399
我們討論了溝通的潛力和重要性。
如果我們開始了解
這些相關的人事物、
這些相關的人事物、
05:36
If we become aware of the constellation,
91
324299
4179
05:40
the terms and conditions of communication,
92
328502
2796
溝通的術語與環境條件，
05:43
it not only broadens our horizon,
93
331322
2331
它不僅開闊了我們的眼界，
05:45
it allows us to look behind
the regulations that limit our worldview,
the regulations that limit our worldview,
94
333677
3872
還能幫助我們回顧哪些規定
限制了我們的世界觀、
限制了我們的世界觀、
05:49
our specific social, political
or aesthetic conventions.
or aesthetic conventions.
95
337573
4126
我們的特定社群、政治或審美觀習俗。
05:54
Let's look at an actual example.
96
342461
1953
讓我們看一個真實的例子。
05:57
The fate of people living
in the makeshift settlements
in the makeshift settlements
97
345383
3087
那些住在巴黎郊區
臨時住區人們的命運，
臨時住區人們的命運，
06:00
on the outskirts of Paris
98
348494
1727
正被隱藏
06:02
is hidden and faded from view.
99
350245
2164
並從我們的視線逐漸消逝。
06:05
It's a vicious circle.
100
353299
1459
這是個惡性循環。
06:07
It's not poverty, not racism,
not exclusion that are new.
not exclusion that are new.
101
355299
3252
這無關貧困、無關種族主義，
也不是排外這類的新鮮事，
也不是排外這類的新鮮事，
06:10
What is new is how
these realities are hidden
these realities are hidden
102
358575
3518
新鮮事是
這些事實是如何被隱藏的，
這些事實是如何被隱藏的，
06:14
and how people are made invisible
103
362117
1628
那些人又是如何
06:15
in an age of global and overwhelming
communication and exchange.
communication and exchange.
104
363769
4096
在這樣一個全球化訊息流通的世代
被變不見的。
被變不見的。
06:20
Such makeshift settlements
are considered illegal,
are considered illegal,
105
368595
2835
這樣的臨時住區
被認為是非法的，
被認為是非法的，
06:23
and therefore those living in them
don't have a chance
don't have a chance
106
371454
3272
因此那些居住在裡面的人們沒有機會
06:26
of making their voices heard.
107
374750
1801
向世界發聲。
06:28
On the contrary, every time they appear,
every time they risk becoming visible,
every time they risk becoming visible,
108
376575
5426
矛盾的是，每一次他們的出現、
冒險逃離就變得看的很清楚，
冒險逃離就變得看的很清楚，
06:34
merely gives grounds
for further persecution,
for further persecution,
109
382025
2710
而這帶來的僅是更深重的迫害、
06:36
expulsion and suppression.
110
384759
2009
驅逐和鎮壓。
06:38
What interested us was how we could
come to know this hidden side.
come to know this hidden side.
111
386792
5204
我們感興趣的是我們如何
能知道這隱藏的一面。
能知道這隱藏的一面。
06:44
We were searching for an interface
and we found one.
and we found one.
112
392020
3389
我們當時在尋找一個對話窗口，
而且我們找到了一個。
而且我們找到了一個。
06:47
It's not a digital interface,
but a physical one: it's a hotel.
but a physical one: it's a hotel.
113
395433
4263
它不是數位對話方式，
而是一個實體；是一家旅館。
而是一個實體；是一家旅館。
06:51
We named the project "Hotel Gelem."
114
399720
2515
我們將這個計劃命名為
“Gelem旅館”
“Gelem旅館”
06:54
Together with Roma families,
we created several Hotel Gelems in Europe,
we created several Hotel Gelems in Europe,
115
402783
3833
我們與羅姆之家一起
在歐洲建立了幾處Gelem旅館，
在歐洲建立了幾處Gelem旅館，
06:58
for example, in Freiburg in Germany,
in Montreuil near Paris,
in Montreuil near Paris,
116
406640
2959
例如，德國的弗赖堡、
巴黎附近的蒙翠爾，
巴黎附近的蒙翠爾，
07:01
and also in the Balkans.
117
409623
1652
還有巴爾幹半島。
07:03
These are real hotels.
118
411299
1361
它們是真正的旅館。
07:04
People can stay there.
119
412684
1591
人們可以在此居住。
07:06
But they aren't a commercial enterprise.
120
414299
1976
但它們不是一個商業性的企業。
07:08
They are a symbol.
121
416299
1482
它們是一個象徵。
07:10
You can go online and ask
for a personal invitation
for a personal invitation
122
418575
3652
你可以在線上申請
Gelem旅館的個人招待，
Gelem旅館的個人招待，
07:14
to come and live for a few days
in the Hotel Gelem, in their homes,
in the Hotel Gelem, in their homes,
123
422251
4386
在Gelem旅館
他們的家園裡居住幾日，
他們的家園裡居住幾日，
07:18
eating, working and living
with the Roma families.
with the Roma families.
124
426661
3492
與羅姆之家的人們一起
吃飯、工作、生活。
吃飯、工作、生活。
07:22
Here, the Roma families
are not the travelers;
are not the travelers;
125
430748
3167
在這兒，羅姆之家並非旅行者；
07:25
the visitors are.
126
433939
1295
訪客們才是。
07:27
Here, the Roma families
are not a minority;
are not a minority;
127
435584
3055
在這兒，羅姆之家並非少數族群；
07:30
the visitors are.
128
438663
1294
訪客們才是。
07:33
The point is not to make judgments,
129
441833
3969
重點並不在於做出評判，
07:37
but rather to find out
about the context that determines
about the context that determines
130
445826
2754
反而是去探索那些
07:40
these disparate and seemingly
insurmountable contradictions.
insurmountable contradictions.
131
448604
3199
造成這些迥異和看似不可逾越
的矛盾的來龍去脈。
的矛盾的來龍去脈。
07:44
In the world of globalization,
132
452299
2240
在這個全球化的世界，
07:46
the continents are drifting
closer to each other.
closer to each other.
133
454563
2712
各大洲的距離正慢慢拉近。
07:49
Cultures, goods and people
are in permanent exchange,
are in permanent exchange,
134
457299
2524
文化、貨物和人們
在持續交流，
在持續交流，
07:51
but at the same time, the gap
between the world of the privileged
between the world of the privileged
135
459847
3254
但是與此同時，
世界特權與排外所造成
的隔閡正不斷地增長。
的隔閡正不斷地增長。
07:55
and the world of the excluded is growing.
136
463125
2848
07:59
We were recently in Australia.
137
467591
1684
我們最近去了澳洲。
08:01
For us, it was no problem
to enter the country.
to enter the country.
138
469299
2601
對我們而言，進入
這個國家毫無阻礙。
這個國家毫無阻礙。
08:03
We have European passports,
visas and air tickets.
visas and air tickets.
139
471924
2682
我們有歐洲護照，簽證和機票。
08:07
But asylum seekers who arrive
by boat in Australia
by boat in Australia
140
475059
3702
但是那些乘船到澳洲
尋求避難的人
尋求避難的人
08:10
are deported or taken to prison.
141
478785
2036
不是被驅逐就是被羈押。
08:13
The interception of the boats
142
481299
1475
那些被攔截的船隻
08:14
and the disappearance of the people
into the detention system
into the detention system
143
482798
3081
以及在拘留系統裡消失的人們
08:17
are veiled by the Australian authorities.
144
485903
2643
都被澳洲當局所掩蓋。
08:21
These procedures are declared
to be secret military operations.
to be secret military operations.
145
489062
3944
這些行動對外宣稱是
秘密的軍事行動。
秘密的軍事行動。
08:25
After dramatic escapes
from crisis zones and war zones,
from crisis zones and war zones,
146
493768
3144
當他們戲劇性地從
危險地帶和戰爭地帶逃出來時，
危險地帶和戰爭地帶逃出來時，
08:28
men, women and children
are detained by Australia without trial,
are detained by Australia without trial,
147
496936
4111
這些男人、婦女和小孩卻
受到了澳洲政府不加審訊地羈押，
受到了澳洲政府不加審訊地羈押，
08:33
sometimes for years.
148
501071
1973
有時一羈押就是好幾年。
08:37
During our stay, however,
149
505036
2096
然而，我們待在澳洲的那段期間，
08:39
we managed to reach out and work
with asylum seekers who were imprisoned,
with asylum seekers who were imprisoned,
150
507156
4119
儘管有嚴格的審查和隔離，
我們仍設法向那些被
羈押的尋求避難者伸出援手，
羈押的尋求避難者伸出援手，
08:43
despite strict screening and isolation.
151
511299
2202
08:46
From these contexts was born
an installation in the art space
an installation in the art space
152
514057
4109
在這樣的背景下，
一件裝置藝術
一件裝置藝術
08:50
of the Queensland University
of Technology in Brisbane.
of Technology in Brisbane.
153
518190
3085
誕生在昆士蘭大學
布利斯班科技學院的藝術空間中。
布利斯班科技學院的藝術空間中。
表面上看，它是個非常簡單的裝置。
08:54
On the face of it,
it was a very simple installation.
it was a very simple installation.
154
522635
3055
08:58
On the floor, a stylized compass
gave the direction
gave the direction
155
526182
3405
底部有一個特製的指南針，
09:01
to each immigration detention center,
156
529611
2008
指向每一個移民拘留中心，
09:03
accompanied by the distance
and the name of the immigration facility.
and the name of the immigration facility.
157
531643
4632
同時顯示出距離和移民署的名字。
09:08
But the exhibition step
came in the form of connectivity.
came in the form of connectivity.
158
536299
3976
但是這次藝展的流程是以
是以溝通的形式來呈現，
是以溝通的形式來呈現，
09:12
Above every floor marking,
there was a headset.
there was a headset.
159
540642
3633
在每個樓層標示上面有一副耳機。
09:16
Visitors were offered the opportunity
to talk directly to a refugee
to talk directly to a refugee
160
544299
4616
參訪者有機會直接與
剛被羈押或被羈押在拘留所
09:20
who was or had been imprisoned
161
548939
2336
09:23
in a specific detention facility
162
551299
2188
一段時間的難民們
09:25
and engage in a personal conversation.
163
553511
2421
展開一段私人的對話。
09:28
In the protected context
of the art exhibition,
of the art exhibition,
164
556916
2866
在受到此次藝展的保護下，
09:31
asylum seekers felt free
to talk about themselves,
to talk about themselves,
165
559806
2627
尋求庇護的難民
可以自由地談論自己、
可以自由地談論自己、
09:34
their story and their situation,
without fear of consequences.
without fear of consequences.
166
562457
3690
不必擔心後果講述
他們的故事和境遇。
他們的故事和境遇。
09:38
Visitors immersed themselves
in long conversations
in long conversations
167
566694
3012
參訪者感同身受沉浸在
那些漫長的交談中，
那些漫長的交談中，
09:41
about families torn apart,
about dramatic escapes from war zones,
about dramatic escapes from war zones,
168
569730
3753
談論關於難民的家破人亡、
戰區大逃亡、
戰區大逃亡、
09:45
about suicide attempts,
169
573507
1612
嘗試自殺、
09:47
about the fate of children in detention.
170
575143
2610
拘留所孩子們的命運。
09:50
Emotions ran deep. Many wept.
171
578618
1984
感人至深，許多人流下眼淚。
09:52
Several revisited the exhibition.
172
580626
2382
不少人甚至來了好幾次。
09:55
It was a powerful experience.
173
583032
2340
這是個非常有影響力的體驗。
09:58
Europe is now facing a stream of migrants.
174
586459
4272
歐洲正面臨著一大批移民。
這些尋求庇護者的情況，
因為敵對的政策
因為敵對的政策
10:03
The situation for the asylum seekers
is made worse by contradictory policies
is made worse by contradictory policies
175
591413
3862
和武力回應的煽動
而變得更糟。
而變得更糟。
10:07
and the temptation
of militarized responses.
of militarized responses.
176
595299
3295
我們同樣在遙遠的瑞士
和希臘的難民中心
和希臘的難民中心
10:11
We have also established
communication systems
communication systems
177
599299
2690
10:14
in remote refugee centers
in Switzerland and Greece.
in Switzerland and Greece.
178
602013
3068
架設了通訊系統。
10:17
They are all about providing
basic information -- medical costs,
basic information -- medical costs,
179
605692
3161
它們旨在提供一些
基礎信息——醫療費用、
基礎信息——醫療費用、
10:20
legal information, guidance.
180
608877
1874
法律信息、指導。
10:23
But they are significant.
181
611163
1691
但它們至關重要。
10:25
Information on the Internet
182
613211
1318
網路上那些能確保
10:26
that could ensure survival
along dangerous routes
along dangerous routes
183
614553
2730
在危險路途上生存的資訊
10:29
is being censored,
184
617307
1393
已經受到了審查，
10:30
and the provision of such information
is becoming increasingly criminalized.
is becoming increasingly criminalized.
185
618724
4687
而且提供這種信息的行為
開始被視作為犯罪。
開始被視作為犯罪。
這帶我們回到那個
10:36
This brings us back to our network
and to the antennas
and to the antennas
186
624601
3050
安裝在瑞士柏林
大使館上的網路天線
大使館上的網路天線
10:39
on the roof of the Swiss Embassy in Berlin
187
627675
2230
10:41
and the "Can You Hear Me?" project.
188
629929
2074
和 “你能聽見我說話嗎？”的 那個項目。
10:44
We should not take it for granted
to be boundlessly connected.
to be boundlessly connected.
189
632725
3210
我們不應該將無國界連接
視為理所當然。
視為理所當然。
10:47
We should start making
our own connections,
our own connections,
190
635959
2033
我們應該開始建立我們自己的連結，
10:50
fighting for this idea of an equal
and globally interconnected world.
and globally interconnected world.
191
638016
4500
為一個平等的、全球互相扶持的
理想世界而奮鬥。
理想世界而奮鬥。
10:54
This is essential to overcome
our speechlessness
our speechlessness
192
642540
2735
這對克服我們的沉默
10:57
and the separation provoked
by rival political forces.
by rival political forces.
193
645299
3120
以及由敵對政治勢力引發的分化
來說至關重要。
來說至關重要。
11:00
It is only in truly exposing ourselves
194
648839
3191
只有將我們自己真正地暴露於
11:04
to the transformative power
of this experience
of this experience
195
652054
2866
這種改革力量的經歷，
11:06
that we can overcome
prejudice and exclusion.
prejudice and exclusion.
196
654944
3331
我們才能克服偏見與排外。
11:10
Thank you.
197
658299
1154
謝謝。
11:11
(Applause)
198
659477
5334
（掌聲）
11:16
Bruno Giussani: Thank you, Mathias.
199
664835
1687
Bruno Giussani: 謝謝你，Mathis。
11:18
The other half of your
artistic duo is also here.
artistic duo is also here.
200
666546
2325
你的另一位藝術拍檔也來到了現場。
11:20
Christoph Wachter, come onstage.
201
668895
1637
Christoph Wachter請到台上來。
11:22
(Applause)
202
670556
5358
（掌聲）
11:27
First, tell me just a detail:
203
675938
1405
首先，告訴我一點細節：
11:29
the name of the hotel
is not a random name.
is not a random name.
204
677367
2079
那個旅館的名字並非隨機得來的。
11:31
Gelem means something specific
in the Roma language.
in the Roma language.
205
679470
3261
Gelem 在羅馬語中有特殊意義。
11:34
Mathias Jud: Yes, "Gelem, Gelem"
is the title of the Romani hymn,
is the title of the Romani hymn,
206
682755
4818
Mathias Jud: 是的，「Gelem，Gelem」
是羅姆讚聖歌的名稱，
是羅姆讚聖歌的名稱，
11:39
the official, and it means
"I went a long way."
"I went a long way."
207
687597
2678
它的意思是
“我走了一段漫長的旅途。”
“我走了一段漫長的旅途。”
11:42
BG: That's just to add
the detail to your talk.
the detail to your talk.
208
690980
2219
BG：這只是補充你剛才演講的細節。
11:45
But you two traveled
to the island of Lesbos
to the island of Lesbos
209
693223
2684
但你們倆最近好像去了萊斯博斯島
11:47
very recently, you're just back
a couple of days ago,
a couple of days ago,
210
695931
2691
幾天前才回來，
11:50
in Greece, where thousands
of refugees are arriving
of refugees are arriving
211
698646
2408
在希臘，過去幾個月，
11:53
and have been arriving
over the last few months.
over the last few months.
212
701078
2288
有成千上萬的難民陸續抵達，
11:55
What did you see there
and what did you do there?
and what did you do there?
213
703390
2442
你們在那裡看到了什麼？
又做了什麼呢？
又做了什麼呢？
11:57
Christoph Wachter: Well, Lesbos is one
of the Greek islands close to Turkey,
of the Greek islands close to Turkey,
214
705856
3801
CW：是的，萊斯博斯
是希臘離土耳其很近的一個島嶼，
是希臘離土耳其很近的一個島嶼，
12:01
and during our stay,
215
709681
1395
我們在這那停留的期間，
12:03
many asylum seekers arrived by boat
on overcrowded dinghies,
on overcrowded dinghies,
216
711100
5421
許多尋求庇護的難民
乘坐擁擠的小艇到來，
乘坐擁擠的小艇到來，
12:08
and after landing, they were left
completely on their own.
completely on their own.
217
716545
3659
抵達后，他們必須獨自離開。
12:12
They are denied many services.
218
720228
3791
他們被各種服務機構拒之門外。
12:16
For example, they are not allowed
to buy a bus ticket
to buy a bus ticket
219
724043
2494
例如，他們不允許購買公車票
12:18
or to rent a hotel room,
220
726561
1405
或者不允許在旅店住宿。
12:19
so many families literally
sleep in the streets.
sleep in the streets.
221
727990
4686
無數家庭露宿街頭。
12:24
And we installed networks there
to allow basic communication,
to allow basic communication,
222
732700
4636
然後我們在那安裝了網絡
讓他們進行最基本的通信，
讓他們進行最基本的通信，
12:29
because I think, I believe,
223
737360
2103
因為我認為，我堅信，
12:31
it's not only that we have to speak
about the refugees,
about the refugees,
224
739487
5439
我們不僅僅需要談論難民，
12:36
I think we need to start talking to them.
225
744950
3325
我認為我們需要開始與他們對話。
12:40
And by doing so, we can realize
that it is about human beings,
that it is about human beings,
226
748655
3620
透過對話，我們才會了解到
這些事情與人類、
這些事情與人類、
12:44
about their lives
and their struggle to survive.
and their struggle to survive.
227
752299
2763
他們的生命、他們為生存
所做的奮鬥有關。
所做的奮鬥有關。
12:47
BG: And allow them to talk as well.
228
755086
1910
BG：並且要讓他們發聲。
12:49
Christoph, thank you for coming to TED.
229
757020
1915
Christoph，謝謝你來到TED。
12:50
Mathias, thank you for coming to TED
and sharing your story.
and sharing your story.
230
758959
3018
Mathias，謝謝你來到TED
並且分享你們自己的故事。
並且分享你們自己的故事。
12:54
(Applause)
231
762001
2131
（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Mathias Jud - ArtistThe work of artists Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter questions the limits of our communication possibilities and, therefore, of our identity.
Why you should listen
Mathias Jud and Christoph Wachter combine the power of online collaboration with activism to produce their artistic vision.
In Berlin (where they live), they created an open mesh network in the government district, allowing citizens to send messages to the NSA and GCHQ, whose known listening posts are there. With their "Hotel Gelem" project, the duo commented on racism and exclusion by inviting visitors to stay in the homes of Roma families -- a culture familiar with the idea of displacement. And in Australia at the Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, the two created an installation which allowed visitors to interract with refugees detained in the country.
"We should start making our own connections, fighting for this idea of an equal and globally interconnected world," Jud says. "This is essential to overcome our speechlessness and the separation provoked by rival political forces."
Mathias Jud | Speaker | TED.com