TED@BCG Paris
Lisa Dyson: A forgotten Space Age technology could change how we grow food
麗莎 · 戴森: 能改變農業的塵封太空科技
Filmed:
Readability: 5.1
1,425,721 views
面臨2050年即將到來的百億人口，如何供給人們足夠的糧食呢？麗莎 · 戴森重新發現美國太空總署在1960年代，為深度太空旅行所研發的點子，可能會是農業新頁的契機。
Lisa Dyson - Sustainability crusader
Lisa Dyson thinks a new class of crops might help us reinvent agriculture -- and feed the world. Full bio
Lisa Dyson thinks a new class of crops might help us reinvent agriculture -- and feed the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Imagine you are a part
of a crew of astronauts
of a crew of astronauts
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想像你是太空人團隊的一員，
00:18
traveling to Mars or some distant planet.
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正前往火星或某個遙遠的星球。
00:21
The travel time could take a year
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旅行時間可能需要一年
00:24
or even longer.
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或甚至更長。
00:26
The space on board and the resources
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太空艙的空間和資源有限。
00:29
would be limited.
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00:31
So you and the crew would have
to figure out how to produce food
to figure out how to produce food
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所以，你和組員必須有
以最小的投入來生產食物的方法。
以最小的投入來生產食物的方法。
00:35
with minimal inputs.
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00:38
What if you could bring with you
just a few packets of seeds,
just a few packets of seeds,
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如果你只能帶幾包種子，
00:42
and grow crops in a matter of hours?
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並且在幾個小時內種出農作物來？
00:46
And what if those crops
would then make more seeds,
would then make more seeds,
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如果這些作物生出更多的種子，
00:50
enabling you to feed the entire crew
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使你可以僅用最初的那幾包種子，
在旅程上充分供食給全體組員？
在旅程上充分供食給全體組員？
00:53
with just those few packets of seeds
for the duration of the trip?
for the duration of the trip?
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00:58
Well, the scientists at NASA actually
figured out a way to do this.
figured out a way to do this.
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美國太空總署的科學家已想出辦法。
01:03
What they came up with
was actually quite interesting.
was actually quite interesting.
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他們想出了挺有意思的辦法，
01:06
It involved microorganisms,
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牽涉到微生物，
01:08
which are single-celled organisms.
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是單細胞有機體，
01:10
And they also used hydrogen from water.
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而且用到水中的氫。
01:13
The types of microbes that they used
were called hydrogenotrophs,
were called hydrogenotrophs,
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他們用的微生物
被稱為「嗜氫菌」，
被稱為「嗜氫菌」，
01:17
and with these hydrogenotrophs,
you can create a virtuous carbon cycle
you can create a virtuous carbon cycle
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用這些嗜氫菌就可以
創建一個良性的「碳循環」，
創建一個良性的「碳循環」，
01:22
that would sustain life
onboard a spacecraft.
onboard a spacecraft.
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足以維持太空船上的生命。
01:26
Astronauts would breathe out
carbon dioxide,
carbon dioxide,
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太空人呼出二氧化碳，
01:30
that carbon dioxide would then
be captured by the microbes
be captured by the microbes
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然後微生物捕獲二氧化碳，
01:34
and converted into a nutritious,
carbon-rich crop.
carbon-rich crop.
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並轉換成富含營養與碳的作物。
01:38
The astronauts would then eat
that carbon-rich crop
that carbon-rich crop
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太空人吃下這些富含碳的作物，
01:41
and exhale the carbon out
in the form of carbon dioxide,
in the form of carbon dioxide,
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以二氧化碳的形式呼出碳來，
01:45
which would then be captured
by the microbes,
by the microbes,
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微生物再度捕獲這些二氧化碳，
01:48
to create a nutritious crop,
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製造出營養作物，
01:49
which then would be exhaled
in the form of carbon dioxide
in the form of carbon dioxide
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再經由太空人
以二氧化碳的形式呼出來。
以二氧化碳的形式呼出來。
01:52
by the astronauts.
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01:54
So in this way, a closed-loop
carbon cycle is created.
carbon cycle is created.
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如此，形成了封閉的碳循環。
01:57
So why is this important?
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為什麼這很重要？
02:00
We need carbon to survive as humans,
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人類需要碳來維生，
02:02
and we get our carbon from food.
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並從食物中獲取碳。
02:05
On a long space journey,
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在漫長的太空旅程中，
02:06
you simply wouldn't be able to pick up
any carbon along the way,
any carbon along the way,
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根本無法沿途取得任何碳，
02:10
so you'd have to figure out
how to recycle it on board.
how to recycle it on board.
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所以必須想辦法在艙裡，
將碳回收再利用。
將碳回收再利用。
02:13
This is a clever solution, right?
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這是個聰明的解法，對吧？
02:16
But the thing is, that research
didn't really go anywhere.
didn't really go anywhere.
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但事實上，
這些研究並未獲得實證。
這些研究並未獲得實證。
02:20
We haven't yet gone to Mars.
We haven't yet gone to another planet.
We haven't yet gone to another planet.
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我們還沒去過火星，
還沒去過其他的星球。
還沒去過其他的星球。
02:24
And this was actually done
in the '60s and '70s.
in the '60s and '70s.
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這項研究實際上是在
60和70年代完成的。
60和70年代完成的。
02:27
So a colleague of mine,
Dr. John Reed, and I,
Dr. John Reed, and I,
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我的同事約翰 • 里德博士和我，
02:30
were interested, actually,
in carbon recycling here on Earth.
in carbon recycling here on Earth.
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對於地球的碳循環很有興趣。
02:34
We wanted to come up
with technical solutions
with technical solutions
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我們希望對於氣候變遷
提供技術解決方案。
提供技術解決方案。
02:36
to address climate change.
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02:38
And we discovered this research
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透過閱讀60年代已發表的論文
－自1967年以後的論文－
－自1967年以後的論文－
02:41
by reading some papers published
in the '60s -- 1967 and later --
in the '60s -- 1967 and later --
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我們發現了這項研究。
02:45
articles about this work.
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02:48
And we thought it was a really good idea.
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我們認為這是很棒的主意。
02:50
So we said, well, Earth
is actually like a spaceship.
is actually like a spaceship.
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地球其實像艘太空船。
02:54
We have limited space
and limited resources,
and limited resources,
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我們的空間和資源有限，
02:57
and on Earth, we really do
need to figure out
need to figure out
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我們確實需要在地球上找出
更有效的碳回收再利用法。
更有效的碳回收再利用法。
03:00
how to recycle our carbon better.
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03:03
So we had the idea,
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因此，我們有個想法：
03:05
can we take some of these
NASA-type ideas and apply them
NASA-type ideas and apply them
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是不是能採用某些太空總署的方法，
來解決地球的碳問題呢？
03:12
to our carbon problem here on Earth?
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03:14
Could we cultivate
these NASA-type microbes
these NASA-type microbes
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能不能培養太空總署類的微生物
03:17
in order to make
valuable products here on Earth?
valuable products here on Earth?
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做成對地球有價值的產品呢？
03:21
We started a company to do it.
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我們成立了公司，來實踐這個想法。
03:23
And in that company, we discovered
that these hydrogenotrophs --
that these hydrogenotrophs --
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我們公司發現這些嗜氫菌
03:28
which I'll actually call
nature's supercharged carbon recyclers --
nature's supercharged carbon recyclers --
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－我稱它們為大自然的
「超級碳回收員」－
「超級碳回收員」－
03:32
we found that they are a powerful
class of microbes
class of microbes
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我們發現這些在過去
03:35
that had been largely overlooked
and understudied,
and understudied,
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多半被忽略、缺少研究的
強大微生物，
強大微生物，
03:39
and that they could make
some really valuable products.
some really valuable products.
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可以被做成極有價值的產品。
03:42
So we began cultivating these products,
these microbes, in our lab.
these microbes, in our lab.
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於是我們開始在實驗室裡
培養這些微生物。
培養這些微生物。
03:47
We found that we can make
essential amino acids from carbon dioxide
essential amino acids from carbon dioxide
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我們發現能用這些微生物
把二氧化碳製成必需氨基酸。
把二氧化碳製成必需氨基酸。
03:50
using these microbes.
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03:52
And we even made a protein-rich meal
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我們甚至做出了富含蛋白質的餐點，
03:55
that has an amino acid profile
similar to what you might find
similar to what you might find
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其中含有類似動物蛋白的氨基酸。
04:00
in some animal proteins.
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04:02
We began cultivating them even further,
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我們進一步培養它們，
04:04
and we found that we can make oil.
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發現能製出油來。
04:06
Oils are used to manufacture
many products.
many products.
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油可用於製造許多產品。
04:09
We made an oil that was similar
to a citrus oil,
to a citrus oil,
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我們做出類似柑橘油的油品，
04:13
which can be used for flavoring
and for fragrances,
and for fragrances,
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可用於調味和當作香料，
04:16
but it also can be used
as a biodegradable cleaner
as a biodegradable cleaner
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也可當作可生物分解的清潔劑，
04:18
or even as a jet fuel.
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甚至做為噴射機的燃料。
04:21
And we made an oil
that's similar to palm oil.
that's similar to palm oil.
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我們做出了類似棕櫚油的油品。
04:24
Palm oil is used to manufacture
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棕櫚油被用來製成
各式各樣的消費品和工業產品。
各式各樣的消費品和工業產品。
04:26
a wide range of consumer
and industrial goods.
and industrial goods.
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04:30
We began working with manufacturers
to scale up this technology,
to scale up this technology,
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我們開始與廠商合作，拓展技術，
04:35
and we're currently working with them
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目前我們正合作
要將一些產品上市。
04:37
to bring some of these products to market.
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04:40
We believe this type of technology
can indeed help us
can indeed help us
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我們相信這一類技術確能幫助我們
04:43
profitably recycle carbon dioxide
into valuable products --
into valuable products --
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回收二氧化碳
做成有價值且能獲利的產品，
做成有價值且能獲利的產品，
04:47
something that's beneficial
for the planet
for the planet
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對地球和企業都有益的產品。
04:49
but also beneficial for business.
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04:52
That's what we're doing today.
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這就是我們現今正在做的事情。
04:54
But tomorrow, this type of technology
and using these types of microbes
and using these types of microbes
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但未來，這類型的技術
和微生物的應用，
和微生物的應用，
04:58
actually could help us
do something even greater
do something even greater
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可幫助我們成就更大的事業，
05:01
if we take it to the next level.
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如果我們將它提昇到另一層次。
05:04
We believe that this type of technology
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我們認為這類型的技術，
05:06
can actually help us address
an issue with agriculture
an issue with agriculture
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將能幫助我們解決農業問題，
05:09
and allow us to create
a type of agriculture that's sustainable,
a type of agriculture that's sustainable,
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建立可永續經營的農業形態，
05:14
that will allow us to scale
to meet the demands of tomorrow.
to meet the demands of tomorrow.
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擴展產能以滿足未來的需求。
05:18
And why might we need
a sustainable agriculture?
a sustainable agriculture?
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為何我們需要可永續經營的農業呢？
05:22
Well, actually, it is estimated
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事實上，預測顯示：
05:24
that the population will reach
about 10 billion by 2050,
about 10 billion by 2050,
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到2050年，
世界將達到百億人口，
世界將達到百億人口，
05:29
and we're projecting that we will need
to increase food production
to increase food production
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預期我們需增加
70%的糧食產能。
70%的糧食產能。
05:33
by 70 percent.
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05:35
In addition, we will need many more
resources and raw materials
resources and raw materials
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此外，我們還需要更多的
資源和原物料，
資源和原物料，
05:38
to make consumer goods
and industrial goods.
and industrial goods.
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來製造消費品和工業產品。
05:41
So how will we scale to meet that demand?
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因此，我們要如何擴展產能
以滿足需求呢？
以滿足需求呢？
05:44
Well, modern agriculture simply cannot
sustainably scale to meet that demand.
sustainably scale to meet that demand.
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現代農業根本無法持續擴展，
以滿足此一需求。
以滿足此一需求。
05:50
There are a number of reasons why.
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有許多的原因 :
05:53
One of them is that modern agriculture
is one of the largest emitters
is one of the largest emitters
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其中一個原因是，現代農業
是最大的溫室氣體排放源之一。
是最大的溫室氣體排放源之一。
05:58
of greenhouse gases.
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05:59
In fact, it emits more greenhouse gases
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事實上，農業排放的溫室氣體，
06:03
than our cars, our trucks, our planes
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比我們汽車、卡車、飛機與火車
加總的排放量還要多。
加總的排放量還要多。
06:06
and our trains combined.
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06:09
Another reason is that modern ag
simply takes up a whole lot of land.
simply takes up a whole lot of land.
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另一原因是，現代農業
使用大量的土地。
使用大量的土地。
06:14
We have cleared 19.4 million square miles
for crops and livestock.
for crops and livestock.
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我們已用了1,940萬平方英里
的土地來種作物和養牲畜。
的土地來種作物和養牲畜。
06:21
What does that look like?
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那有多大呢？
06:23
Well, that's roughly the size
of South America and Africa combined.
of South America and Africa combined.
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面積約為南美洲和非洲的總和。
06:29
Let me give you a specific example.
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讓我給你一個具體的例子。
06:31
In Indonesia, an amount
of virgin rainforest was cleared
of virgin rainforest was cleared
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在印尼，約當愛爾蘭
面積大小的原始熱帶雨林
面積大小的原始熱帶雨林
06:36
totaling the size
of approximately Ireland,
of approximately Ireland,
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在2000至2012年間被剷除。
06:39
between 2000 and 2012.
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06:42
Just think of all
of the species, the diversity,
of the species, the diversity,
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試想，在這過程中
所傷害的各式物種與其多樣性，
所傷害的各式物種與其多樣性，
06:45
that was removed in the process,
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06:47
whether plant life, insects
or animal life.
or animal life.
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無論是植物，昆蟲，或動物。
06:51
And a natural carbon sink
was also removed.
was also removed.
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而且，天然的碳匯也被破壞了。
06:54
So let me make this real for you.
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讓我為你呈現真實的樣貌。
06:56
This clearing happened primarily
to make room for palm plantations.
to make room for palm plantations.
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剷除這些雨林地，主要是為了
騰出空間來種植棕櫚樹。
騰出空間來種植棕櫚樹。
07:01
And as I mentioned before,
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正如我前面所提到的，
07:02
palm oil is used
to manufacture many products.
to manufacture many products.
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棕櫚油用來製造許多產品。
07:06
In fact, it is estimated
that over 50 percent of consumer products
that over 50 percent of consumer products
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事實上，估計顯示
超過50％的消費產品
超過50％的消費產品
07:10
are manufactured using palm oil.
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是以棕櫚油為生產原料。
07:13
And that includes things
like ice cream, cookies ...
like ice cream, cookies ...
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包括：冰淇淋、餅乾、
07:17
It includes cooking oils.
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食用油、
07:19
It also includes detergents,
lotions, soaps.
lotions, soaps.
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清潔劑、乳液、肥皂。
07:23
You and I both
probably have numerous items
probably have numerous items
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在你我的廚房和浴室中，
07:28
in our kitchens and our bathrooms
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可能都有許多棕櫚油的製成品。
07:30
that were manufactured using palm oil.
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07:33
So you and I are direct beneficiaries
of removed rainforests.
of removed rainforests.
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所以，你和我皆是
消失雨林的直接受益者。
消失雨林的直接受益者。
07:39
Modern ag has some problems,
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現代農業存在一些問題，
07:41
and we need solutions
if we want to scale sustainably.
if we want to scale sustainably.
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必須有解決方案才能
擴大和永續經營。
擴大和永續經營。
07:47
I believe that microbes
can be a part of the answer --
can be a part of the answer --
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我相信微生物是答案的一部分；
07:51
specifically, these supercharged
carbon recyclers.
carbon recyclers.
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尤其是這些超級碳回收員，
07:55
These supercharged carbon recyclers,
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這些超級碳回收員，
07:58
like plants, serve as
the natural recyclers
the natural recyclers
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像植物一樣，
在它們活躍的生態系統中，
扮演著自然資源回收者的角色。
扮演著自然資源回收者的角色。
08:02
in their ecosystems where they thrive.
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08:04
And they thrive in exotic places on Earth,
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它們活躍在地球上特異的地方，
08:06
like hydrothermal vents and hot springs.
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像是深海溫泉區和溫泉中。
08:09
In those ecosystems,
they take carbon and recycle it
they take carbon and recycle it
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在這些生態系統中，
它們將碳回收再利用，
它們將碳回收再利用，
08:12
into the nutrients needed
for those ecosystems.
for those ecosystems.
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轉換成這些生態系統
所需的養分。
所需的養分。
08:15
And they're rich in nutrients,
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而它們含豐富的營養成分，
08:17
such as oils and proteins,
minerals and carbohydrates.
minerals and carbohydrates.
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例如：油、蛋白質、
礦物質，和碳水化合物。
礦物質，和碳水化合物。
08:24
And actually, microbes are already
an integral part of our everyday lives.
an integral part of our everyday lives.
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事實上，微生物已是我們
日常生活中不可或缺的一部分。
日常生活中不可或缺的一部分。
08:29
If you enjoy a glass of pinot noir
on a Friday night,
on a Friday night,
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如果你喜歡在星期五晚上
喝杯黑皮諾紅酒，
喝杯黑皮諾紅酒，
08:33
after a long, hard work week,
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以犒賞一週工作的辛苦，
08:35
then you are enjoying
a product of microbes.
a product of microbes.
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那你即是在享受微生物的作品。
08:39
If you enjoy a beer
from your local microbrewery --
from your local microbrewery --
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若你喜飲本地小酒廠釀製的啤酒，
08:41
a product of microbes.
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那也是微生物的產物。
08:43
Or bread, or cheese, or yogurt.
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其他像是麵包、乳酪、優酪乳，
08:47
These are all products of microbes.
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也都是微生物的產品。
08:49
But the beauty and power associated
with these supercharged carbon recyclers
with these supercharged carbon recyclers
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但是，這些超級碳回收員的力與美，
08:55
lies in the fact that they can
actually produce in a matter of hours
actually produce in a matter of hours
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在於它們能夠在
短短的數小時內產出產品，
短短的數小時內產出產品，
而不是耗費幾個月。
09:00
versus months.
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09:01
That means we can make crops
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這意味著我們可以遠比今日
09:03
much faster than we're making them today.
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更快的速度來生產作物。
09:07
They grow in the dark,
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它們毋需陽光生長，
09:09
so they can grow in any season
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所以它們可以在任何季節、
09:11
and in any geography and any location.
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任何區域或地點生長。
09:15
They can grow in containers
that require minimal space.
that require minimal space.
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它們可以在極小的容器中生長。
09:19
And we can get to a type
of vertical agriculture.
of vertical agriculture.
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我們可以進行垂直型農業。
09:23
Instead of our traditional
horizontal agriculture
horizontal agriculture
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不同於我們傳統的水平型農業，
09:26
that requires so much land,
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垂直型所需的土地不多，
09:27
we can scale vertically,
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可垂直擴展，
09:29
and as a result
produce much more product per area.
produce much more product per area.
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結果是每單位面積
能生產更多的產品。
能生產更多的產品。
09:36
If we implement this type of approach
and use these carbon recyclers,
and use these carbon recyclers,
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如果施行這類型的農法，
並且使用這些碳回收員，
並且使用這些碳回收員，
09:40
then we wouldn't have to remove
any more rainforests
any more rainforests
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就毋需砍伐更多的熱帶雨林，
09:43
to make the food and the goods
that we consume.
that we consume.
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來供給我們的食品與貨物的消耗。
09:48
Because, at a large scale,
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因為，若大規模生產，
09:50
you can actually make 10,000 times
more output per land area
more output per land area
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每單位土地面積將有萬倍的產出；
09:56
than you could -- for instance,
if you used soybeans --
if you used soybeans --
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例如，如果種植大豆，
09:59
if you planted soybeans
on that same area of land
on that same area of land
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在同一塊土地上種植一年後，
10:02
over a period of a year.
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10:04
Ten thousand times
over a period of a year.
over a period of a year.
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一年會有一萬倍的產出。
10:08
So this is what I mean
by a new type of agriculture.
by a new type of agriculture.
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這是我要傳達的新型農業，
10:12
And this is what I mean
by developing a system
by developing a system
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是個能夠永續經營，
10:15
that allows us to sustainably scale
to meet the demands of 10 billion.
to meet the demands of 10 billion.
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滿足百億人口需求的農業。
10:22
And what would be the products
of this new type of agriculture?
of this new type of agriculture?
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這種新型農業
生產什麼樣的產品呢？
生產什麼樣的產品呢？
10:26
Well, we've already made a protein meal,
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我們已經做出了蛋白粉，
10:28
so you can imagine something
similar to a soybean meal,
similar to a soybean meal,
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所以不難想像
我們可做出類似大豆粉、
我們可做出類似大豆粉、
10:31
or even cornmeal, or wheat flour.
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玉米粉或甚至麵粉。
10:34
We've already made oils,
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我們已做出油，
10:35
so you can imagine something
similar to coconut oil
similar to coconut oil
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所以不難想像
亦可做出類似於椰子油、
亦可做出類似於椰子油、
10:39
or olive oil or soybean oil.
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橄欖油，或大豆油的東西。
10:42
So this type of crop can
actually produce the nutrients
actually produce the nutrients
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這類型的作物真能產生營養成分，
10:46
that would give us pasta and bread,
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供應我們麵條、麵包、
10:48
cakes, nutritional items of many sorts.
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蛋糕，和許多種類的營養品。
10:52
Furthermore, since oil is used
to manufacture multiple other goods,
to manufacture multiple other goods,
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此外，因為油被廣泛用來
製造許多其他商品、
製造許多其他商品、
10:59
industrial products and consumer products,
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工業產品和消費類產品，
11:01
you can imagine being able to make
detergents, soaps, lotions, etc.,
detergents, soaps, lotions, etc.,
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可想像用這類作物來製造
清潔劑、肥皂、乳液等。
清潔劑、肥皂、乳液等。
11:06
using these types of crops.
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11:09
Not only are we running out of space,
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總而言之，不僅地球
所剩的空間有限，
所剩的空間有限，
11:12
but if we continue to operate
under the status quo
under the status quo
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若我們繼續以現狀施行農法，
11:15
with modern agriculture,
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11:16
we run the risk of robbing our progeny
of a beautiful planet.
of a beautiful planet.
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我們將面臨剝奪後代
擁有美麗地球的風險。
擁有美麗地球的風險。
11:22
But it doesn't have to be this way.
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但是毋需這樣，
11:24
We can imagine a future of abundance.
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我們可以想像豐饒的未來。
11:28
Let us create systems that keep
planet Earth, our spaceship,
planet Earth, our spaceship,
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讓我們創造一個不僅讓地球
－我們的太空船－
－我們的太空船－
11:34
not only from not crashing,
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免於崩潰的系統，
11:36
but let us also develop systems
and ways of living
and ways of living
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也發展益於我們自己、
11:40
that will be beneficial
to the lives of ourselves
to the lives of ourselves
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益於2050年後的百億地球人
11:44
and the 10 billion that will
be on this planet by 2050.
be on this planet by 2050.
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所生存的生活方式與系統。
11:48
Thank you very much.
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非常感謝你。
11:50
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Lisa Dyson - Sustainability crusaderLisa Dyson thinks a new class of crops might help us reinvent agriculture -- and feed the world.
Why you should listen
Dr. Lisa Dyson is the CEO of Kiverdi, a technology company with a mission to develop innovations that go beyond traditional agriculture to help us feed and power a growing world, one that will include 3 billion more people by 2050. Kiverdi's bio-process uses natural microbes to convert CO2 into the proteins and oils that are the same as the ones we use today for sustenance and to power industry.
Dyson holds a PhD in physics from MIT and has done research in bioengineering, energy and physics at Stanford University, UC Berkeley and Princeton University, among others. She was a Fulbright Scholar at the Imperial College London in the United Kingdom, where she received a master of science, and has degrees in physics and mathematics from Brandeis University.
Dyson has broad business experience developing corporate strategies in a number of industries including in chemicals, packaging, energy, automotive, telecommunications and non-profits. While at The Boston Consulting Group, Dyson worked with executives at multi-national corporations to help them solve strategic business problems including cutting operational costs, expanding internationally, franchising, developing governance structures, designing effective organizations and developing market entry strategies.
Lisa Dyson | Speaker | TED.com