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Yanis Varoufakis: Capitalism will eat democracy -- unless we speak up
Yanis Varoufakis: Kapitalizam će pojesti demokraciju -- ukoliko ne dignemo glas
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Jeste li se upitali zašto političari nisu što su nekoć bili, zašto vlade izgledaju nesposobne za rješavanje stvarnih problema? Ekonomist Yanis Varoufakis, bivši ministar financija Grčke, kaže da je to zato što danas možete biti u politici, ali ne imati moć -- zato jer stvarna moć sada pripada onima koji kontroliraju ekonomiju. On vjeruje da mega-bogati i korporacije proždiru polititčku sferu uzrokujući financijske krize. U ovom govoru poslušajte njegov san o svijetu u kojem se kapital i rad više ne bore jedno protiv drugog, "svijet koji je istovremeno libertarijanski, marksistički i kejnzijanski."
Yanis Varoufakis - Economist and professor
Yanis Varoufakis thinks we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism. Full bio
Yanis Varoufakis thinks we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Demokracija.
00:13
Democracy.
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Mi na Zapadu
00:14
In the West,
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00:16
we make a colossal mistake
taking it for granted.
taking it for granted.
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činimo ogromnu grešku
uzimajući je kao gotovu činjenicu.
uzimajući je kao gotovu činjenicu.
00:20
We see democracy
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Demokraciju vidimo
00:21
not as the most fragile
of flowers that it really is,
of flowers that it really is,
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ne kao najkrhkiji cvijet,
što ona ustvari jeste,
što ona ustvari jeste,
00:26
but we see it as part
of our society's furniture.
of our society's furniture.
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već je vidimo kao dio
pokućstva našeg društva.
pokućstva našeg društva.
00:29
We tend to think of it
as an intransigent given.
as an intransigent given.
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Skloni smo o njoj misliti
kao o beskompromisnoj datosti.
kao o beskompromisnoj datosti.
00:34
We mistakenly believe that capitalism
begets inevitably democracy.
begets inevitably democracy.
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Pogrešno vjerujemo da kapitalizam
neizbježno rađa demokraciju.
neizbježno rađa demokraciju.
00:39
It doesn't.
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To nije tako.
00:41
Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew
and his great imitators in Beijing
and his great imitators in Beijing
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Singapurski Lee Kuan Yew
i njegovi veliki imitatori u Pekingu
i njegovi veliki imitatori u Pekingu
00:45
have demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt
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pokazali su, van svake sumnje,
00:48
that it is perfectly possible
to have a flourishing capitalism,
to have a flourishing capitalism,
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da je savršeno moguće
imati napredni kapitalizam,
imati napredni kapitalizam,
00:52
spectacular growth,
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spektakularni rast,
00:54
while politics remains democracy-free.
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dok politika ostaje bez demokracije.
00:58
Indeed, democracy is receding
in our neck of the woods,
in our neck of the woods,
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Uistinu, demokracija uzmiče
na našem terenu,
na našem terenu,
01:02
here in Europe.
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ovdje u Europi.
01:04
Earlier this year,
while I was representing Greece --
while I was representing Greece --
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Početkom ove godine,
dok sam predstavljao Grčku --
dok sam predstavljao Grčku --
01:07
the newly elected Greek government --
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novoizabranu grčku vladu --
01:10
in the Eurogroup as its Finance Minister,
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u Eurogrupi, kao ministar financija,
01:12
I was told in no uncertain terms
that our nation's democratic process --
that our nation's democratic process --
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izravno mi je rečeno
da demokratski proces naše zemlje --
da demokratski proces naše zemlje --
01:17
our elections --
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naši izbori --
01:19
could not be allowed to interfere
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ne smiju ometati
01:21
with economic policies
that were being implemented in Greece.
that were being implemented in Greece.
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ekonomske mjere
koje su se uvodile u Grčkoj.
koje su se uvodile u Grčkoj.
01:25
At that moment,
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U tom času sam pomislio
01:26
I felt that there could be no greater
vindication of Lee Kuan Yew,
vindication of Lee Kuan Yew,
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da ne može biti boljeg opravdanja
za Lee Kuan Yewa,
za Lee Kuan Yewa,
ili kinesku Komunističku partiju,
01:30
or the Chinese Communist Party,
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01:32
indeed of some recalcitrant
friends of mine who kept telling me
friends of mine who kept telling me
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zapravo i nekih mojih svojeglavih
prijatelja koji su mi stalno govorili
prijatelja koji su mi stalno govorili
01:36
that democracy would be banned
if it ever threatened to change anything.
if it ever threatened to change anything.
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da će demokracija biti zabranjena ako
ikada zaprijeti bilo kakvom promjenom.
ikada zaprijeti bilo kakvom promjenom.
Večeras vam ovdje želim predstaviti
01:41
Tonight, here, I want to present to you
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01:44
an economic case
for an authentic democracy.
for an authentic democracy.
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ekonomski primjer
jedne autentične demokracije.
jedne autentične demokracije.
01:48
I want to ask you
to join me in believing again
to join me in believing again
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Želim od vas zatražiti da mi se
pridružite u vjerovanju
pridružite u vjerovanju
01:53
that Lee Kuan Yew,
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da Lee Kuan Yew,
kineska Komunistička partija
01:56
the Chinese Communist Party
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01:57
and indeed the Eurogroup
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i zapravo Eurogrupa
01:59
are wrong in believing
that we can dispense with democracy --
that we can dispense with democracy --
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griješe vjerujući da
možemo bez demokracije --
možemo bez demokracije --
02:03
that we need an authentic,
boisterous democracy.
boisterous democracy.
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da nam je potrebna autentična,
glasna demokracija.
glasna demokracija.
02:07
And without democracy,
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A bez demokracije,
02:10
our societies will be nastier,
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naša će društva biti opasnija,
02:13
our future bleak
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naša budućnost mračna
02:15
and our great, new technologies wasted.
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i naše velike, nove tehnologije potraćene.
02:18
Speaking of waste,
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Govoreći o rasipanju,
02:19
allow me to point out
an interesting paradox
an interesting paradox
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dozvolite mi da istaknem
jedan zanimljiv paradoks
jedan zanimljiv paradoks
02:22
that is threatening
our economies as we speak.
our economies as we speak.
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koji prijeti našim ekonomijama
u ovom času dok pričamo.
u ovom času dok pričamo.
02:25
I call it the twin peaks paradox.
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Ja to nazivam paradoks
vrhova blizanaca.
vrhova blizanaca.
02:27
One peak you understand --
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Jedan vrh razumijete --
02:28
you know it, you recognize it --
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znate ga, prepoznajete ga --
02:30
is the mountain of debts
that has been casting a long shadow
that has been casting a long shadow
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je brdo dugova koje
baca dugačku sjenu
baca dugačku sjenu
02:35
over the United States,
Europe, the whole world.
Europe, the whole world.
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preko Sjedinjenih država, Europe,
cijelog svijeta.
cijelog svijeta.
02:38
We all recognize the mountain of debts.
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Svi mi prepoznajemo brdo dugova.
02:40
But few people discern its twin.
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Ali tek nekolicina razaznaju
njegovog blizanca.
njegovog blizanca.
02:45
A mountain of idle cash
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Brdo neaktivne gotovine
02:48
belonging to rich savers
and to corporations,
and to corporations,
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koja pripada bogatim štedišama
i korporacijama,
i korporacijama,
previše uplašenima da bi je investirali
02:53
too terrified to invest it
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02:55
into the productive activities
that can generate the incomes
that can generate the incomes
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u produktivne djelatnosti koje
mogu stvoriti dohotke
mogu stvoriti dohotke
02:59
from which you can extinguish
the mountain of debts
the mountain of debts
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od kojih možete iskorijeniti brdo dugova
03:02
and which can produce all those things
that humanity desperately needs,
that humanity desperately needs,
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i koji mogu proizvesti sve one stvari
koje čovječanstvo očajnički treba,
koje čovječanstvo očajnički treba,
03:06
like green energy.
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kao što je zelena energija.
03:07
Now let me give you two numbers.
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Dozvolite da vam dam dva broja.
03:10
Over the last three months,
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Tijekom zadnja tri mjeseca
03:11
in the United States,
in Britain and in the Eurozone,
in Britain and in the Eurozone,
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u Sjedinjenim državama,
u Britaniji i Eurozoni,
u Britaniji i Eurozoni,
03:14
we have invested, collectively,
3.4 trillion dollars
3.4 trillion dollars
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investirali smo, kolektivno,
3,4 trilijuna dolara
3,4 trilijuna dolara
03:18
on all the wealth-producing goods --
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u sve robe koje proizvode bogatstvo --
03:21
things like industrial plants, machinery,
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stvari poput industrijskih
postrojenja, strojeva,
postrojenja, strojeva,
03:24
office blocks, schools,
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poslovnih zgrada, škola,
03:26
roads, railways, machinery,
and so on and so forth.
and so on and so forth.
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cesta, pruga, strojeva
i tako dalje i tako dalje.
i tako dalje i tako dalje.
03:29
$3.4 trillion sounds like a lot of money
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3,4 trilijuna dolara
zvuči kao mnogo novca
zvuči kao mnogo novca
03:32
until you compare it to the $5.1 trillion
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dok to ne usporedite s 5,1 trilijun dolara
03:36
that has been slushing around
in the same countries,
in the same countries,
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koji su bili razbacani naokolo
u tim istim zemljama,
u tim istim zemljama,
03:39
in our financial institutions,
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u našim financijskim ustanovama,
03:41
doing absolutely nothing
during the same period
during the same period
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ne čineći apsolutno ništa
u tom istom razdoblju
u tom istom razdoblju
03:45
except inflating stock exchanges
and bidding up house prices.
and bidding up house prices.
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osim napuhavanja burzi
i podizanja cijena stanova.
i podizanja cijena stanova.
03:50
So a mountain of debt
and a mountain of idle cash
and a mountain of idle cash
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Tako brdo dugova i
brdo neaktivne gotovine
brdo neaktivne gotovine
03:55
form twin peaks,
failing to cancel each other out
failing to cancel each other out
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tvore vrhove blizance, koji se
ne uspijevaju međusobno poništiti
ne uspijevaju međusobno poništiti
03:59
through the normal
operation of the markets.
operation of the markets.
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kroz normalno funkcioniranje tržišta.
04:02
The result is stagnant wages,
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Rezultat je stagnacija plaća,
04:05
more than a quarter of 25- to 54-year-olds
in America, in Japan and in Europe
in America, in Japan and in Europe
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više od četvrtine ljudi u dobi od 25 do 45
u Americi, Japanu i Europi su
u Americi, Japanu i Europi su
04:11
out of work.
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bez posla.
04:12
And consequently, low aggregate demand,
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I stoga, niska agregatna potražnja,
04:14
which in a never-ending cycle,
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koja u beskonačnom ciklusu,
04:17
reinforces the pessimism of the investors,
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učvršćuje pesimizam investitora
koji je, bojeći se slabe potražnje,
reproduciraju ne investirajući --
reproduciraju ne investirajući --
04:20
who, fearing low demand,
reproduce it by not investing --
reproduce it by not investing --
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04:24
exactly like Oedipus' father,
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upravo kao Edipov otac
04:27
who, terrified
by the prophecy of the oracle
by the prophecy of the oracle
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koji je, užasnut proročanstvom
04:29
that his son would grow up to kill him,
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da će mu sin odrasti i ubiti ga,
04:32
unwittingly engineered the conditions
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nesvjesno isplanirao okolnosti
04:34
that ensured that Oedipus,
his son, would kill him.
his son, would kill him.
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koje su osigurale da ga Edip,
njegov sin, ubije.
njegov sin, ubije.
04:38
This is my quarrel with capitalism.
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To je moja svađa s kapitalizmom.
04:41
Its gross wastefulness,
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Njegova glupa rasipnost,
04:43
all this idle cash,
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sva ta neaktivna gotovina,
04:44
should be energized to improve lives,
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trebala bi biti aktivirana
za poboljšanje života,
za poboljšanje života,
04:49
to develop human talents,
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za razvoj ljudskih talenata,
04:50
and indeed to finance
all these technologies,
all these technologies,
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i ustvari za financiranje
svih tih tehnologija,
svih tih tehnologija,
04:53
green technologies,
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zelenih tehnologija,
04:54
which are absolutely essential
for saving planet Earth.
for saving planet Earth.
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koje su apsolutno ključne
za spašavanje planete Zemlje.
za spašavanje planete Zemlje.
04:58
Am I right in believing
that democracy might be the answer?
that democracy might be the answer?
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Jesam li u pravu vjerujući
da bi demokracija mogla biti odgovor?
da bi demokracija mogla biti odgovor?
05:01
I believe so,
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Vjerujem da jesam,
no prije nego što nastavimo,
05:02
but before we move on,
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05:04
what do we mean by democracy?
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što mislimo pod demokracijom?
05:06
Aristotle defined democracy
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Aristotel je demokraciju definirao
05:08
as the constitution
in which the free and the poor,
in which the free and the poor,
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kao uređenje u kojem
slobodni i siromašni,
slobodni i siromašni,
05:13
being in the majority, control government.
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budući da su u većini, kontroliraju vladu.
05:17
Now, of course Athenian democracy
excluded too many.
excluded too many.
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Naravno da je atenska demokracija
isključivala previše njih.
isključivala previše njih.
05:20
Women, migrants and,
of course, the slaves.
of course, the slaves.
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Žene, migrante i, naravno, robove.
05:24
But it would be a mistake
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No bilo bi pogrešno
05:25
to dismiss the significance
of ancient Athenian democracy
of ancient Athenian democracy
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zanemariti značaj
drevne atenske demokracije
drevne atenske demokracije
05:28
on the basis of whom it excluded.
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na osnovu toga
koga je sve isključivala.
koga je sve isključivala.
Ono što je bilo značajnije,
05:31
What was more pertinent,
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05:32
and continues to be so
about ancient Athenian democracy,
about ancient Athenian democracy,
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a i dalje je tako,
za atensku demokraciju,
za atensku demokraciju,
05:36
was the inclusion of the working poor,
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bilo je uključivanje siromašnih radnika
05:40
who not only acquired
the right to free speech,
the right to free speech,
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koji, ne samo da su
stekli slobodu govora,
stekli slobodu govora,
05:45
but more importantly, crucially,
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već, što je još važnije, presudno,
05:47
they acquired the rights
to political judgments
to political judgments
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stekli su pravo na politička mišljenja
05:50
that were afforded equal weight
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koja su imala jednaku težinu
05:52
in the decision-making
concerning matters of state.
concerning matters of state.
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u donošenju odluka o državnim pitanjima.
05:56
Now, of course, Athenian
democracy didn't last long.
democracy didn't last long.
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Naravno, atenska demokracija
nije dugo trajala.
nije dugo trajala.
05:59
Like a candle that burns brightly,
it burned out quickly.
it burned out quickly.
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Kao svijeća koja jako gori,
brzo je izgorjela.
brzo je izgorjela.
06:03
And indeed,
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I, zapravo,
06:04
our liberal democracies today
do not have their roots in ancient Athens.
do not have their roots in ancient Athens.
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naše današnje liberalne demokracije
nemaju svoj korijen u drevnoj Ateni.
nemaju svoj korijen u drevnoj Ateni.
06:09
They have their roots in the Magna Carta,
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One imaju svoj korijen u
Velikoj povelji slobode, Magna carta,
Velikoj povelji slobode, Magna carta,
06:11
in the 1688 Glorious Revolution,
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u Slavnoj revoluciji 1688.,
06:14
indeed in the American constitution.
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ustvari u Američkom ustavu.
06:17
Whereas Athenian democracy
was focusing on the masterless citizen
was focusing on the masterless citizen
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Dok se atenska demokracija
fokusirala na građanina bez gospodara
fokusirala na građanina bez gospodara
06:22
and empowering the working poor,
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osnažujući siromašne radnike,
naše liberalne demokracije su utemeljene
na tradiciji Velike povelje slobode,
na tradiciji Velike povelje slobode,
06:25
our liberal democracies are founded
on the Magna Carta tradition,
on the Magna Carta tradition,
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koja je, naposljetku,
povelja za gospodare.
povelja za gospodare.
06:29
which was, after all,
a charter for masters.
a charter for masters.
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06:32
And indeed, liberal democracy
only surfaced when it was possible
only surfaced when it was possible
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I uistinu, liberalna demokracija
se pojavila tek kada je bilo moguće
se pojavila tek kada je bilo moguće
06:36
to separate fully the political sphere
from the economic sphere,
from the economic sphere,
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u potpunosti odvojiti političku sferu
od ekonomske sfere,
od ekonomske sfere,
06:40
so as to confine the democratic process
fully in the political sphere,
fully in the political sphere,
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kako bi se demokratski proces
u potpunosti ograničio na političku sferu,
u potpunosti ograničio na političku sferu,
06:45
leaving the economic sphere --
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ostavljajući sferu ekonomije --
06:47
the corporate world, if you want --
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svijet korporacija, ako želite --
06:49
as a democracy-free zone.
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kao zonu bez demokracije.
06:53
Now, in our democracies today,
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U našim današnjim demokracijama
06:56
this separation of the economic
from the political sphere,
from the political sphere,
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ovo odvajanje ekonomske
od političke sfere,
od političke sfere,
07:00
the moment it started happening,
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u trenutku kada se počelo događati,
07:02
it gave rise to an inexorable,
epic struggle between the two,
epic struggle between the two,
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uzrokovalo je neizbježnu,
epsku borbu između tih dviju sfera,
epsku borbu između tih dviju sfera,
07:06
with the economic sphere
colonizing the political sphere,
colonizing the political sphere,
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gdje je ekonomska sfera
kolonizirala političku sferu,
kolonizirala političku sferu,
07:10
eating into its power.
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nagrizajući njenu moć.
07:12
Have you wondered why politicians
are not what they used to be?
are not what they used to be?
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Jeste li se upitali zašto političari
više nisu što su nekad bili?
više nisu što su nekad bili?
07:16
It's not because their DNA
has degenerated.
has degenerated.
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To nije stoga što im je
DNA degenerirala.
DNA degenerirala.
07:19
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:20
It is rather because one can be
in government today and not in power,
in government today and not in power,
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To je zato što se danas
može biti u vladi i ne imati moć,
može biti u vladi i ne imati moć,
07:25
because power has migrated
from the political to the economic sphere,
from the political to the economic sphere,
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zato jer je moć migrirala iz
političke u ekonomsku sferu,
političke u ekonomsku sferu,
07:28
which is separate.
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koja je odvojena.
07:31
Indeed,
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Uistinu,
07:32
I spoke about my quarrel
with capitalism.
with capitalism.
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govorio sam o svojoj svađi
s kapitalizmom.
s kapitalizmom.
07:35
If you think about it,
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Ako razmislite o tome,
07:36
it is a little bit like
a population of predators,
a population of predators,
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to je pomalo kao populacija predatora,
koja je tako uspješna u desetkovanju
plijena kojim se mora hraniti,
plijena kojim se mora hraniti,
07:41
that are so successful in decimating
the prey that they must feed on,
the prey that they must feed on,
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07:46
that in the end they starve.
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da na koncu umire od gladi.
07:48
Similarly,
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Slično tome,
ekonomska sfera je kolonizirala
i proždirala političku sferu
i proždirala političku sferu
07:49
the economic sphere has been colonizing
and cannibalizing the political sphere
and cannibalizing the political sphere
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07:53
to such an extent
that it is undermining itself,
that it is undermining itself,
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do te mjere da je samu sebe potkopala,
07:57
causing economic crisis.
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uzrokujući ekonomske krize.
07:58
Corporate power is increasing,
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Korporativna moć raste,
08:00
political goods are devaluing,
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politička dobra se obezvrijeđuju
08:03
inequality is rising,
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nejednakost raste,
08:05
aggregate demand is falling
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agregatna potražnja opada,
08:06
and CEOs of corporations are too scared
to invest the cash of their corporations.
to invest the cash of their corporations.
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a direktori su suviše preplašeni da bi
investirali gotovinu svojih korporacija.
investirali gotovinu svojih korporacija.
08:13
So the more capitalism succeeds
in taking the demos out of democracy,
in taking the demos out of democracy,
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Što je kapitalizam uspješniji u
uklanjanju demosa iz demokracije,
uklanjanju demosa iz demokracije,
08:20
the taller the twin peaks
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to su viši vrhovi blizanci
08:21
and the greater the waste
of human resources
of human resources
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i veće je rasipanje ljudskih resursa
08:25
and humanity's wealth.
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i bogatstva čovječanstva.
08:27
Clearly, if this is right,
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Jasno, ako je ovo točno,
08:30
we must reunite the political
and economic spheres
and economic spheres
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mi moramo ponovo ujediniti
političku i ekonomsku sferu
političku i ekonomsku sferu
08:33
and better do it
with a demos being in control,
with a demos being in control,
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i bolje da to učinimo
pod kontrolom demosa,
pod kontrolom demosa,
08:37
like in ancient Athens
except without the slaves
except without the slaves
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kao u drevnoj Ateni,
no bez robova ili
isključivanja žena i migranata.
isključivanja žena i migranata.
08:40
or the exclusion of women and migrants.
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Ovo nije originalna ideja.
08:44
Now, this is not an original idea.
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08:45
The Marxist left
had that idea 100 years ago
had that idea 100 years ago
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Marksistička ljevica imala je
tu ideju prije 100 godina
tu ideju prije 100 godina
08:48
and it didn't go very well, did it?
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i to nije baš dobro prošlo, zar ne?
08:50
The lesson that we learned
from the Soviet debacle
from the Soviet debacle
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Lekcija koju smo naučili
iz sovjetskog sloma je
iz sovjetskog sloma je
08:54
is that only by a miracle
will the working poor be reempowered,
will the working poor be reempowered,
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da će siromašni radnici jedino čudom
biti ponovo emancipirani,
biti ponovo emancipirani,
09:00
as they were in ancient Athens,
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kao što su bili u drevnoj Ateni,
09:02
without creating new forms
of brutality and waste.
of brutality and waste.
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bez stvaranja novih oblika
brutalnosti i rasipanja.
brutalnosti i rasipanja.
09:06
But there is a solution:
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No, postoji rješenje:
09:08
eliminate the working poor.
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eliminirati siromašne radnike.
09:11
Capitalism's doing it
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Kapitalizam to radi
09:12
by replacing low-wage workers
with automata, androids, robots.
with automata, androids, robots.
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zamjenjujući radnike s niskim prihodima
automatima, androidima, robotima.
automatima, androidima, robotima.
Problem je
09:19
The problem is
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da dokle god su ekonomska i
politička sfera odvojene,
politička sfera odvojene,
09:20
that as long as the economic
and the political spheres are separate,
and the political spheres are separate,
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09:23
automation makes the twin peaks taller,
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automatizacija čini
vrhove blizance još višima,
vrhove blizance još višima,
09:28
the waste loftier
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rasipanje obimnijim
09:30
and the social conflicts deeper,
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i društvene sukobe dubljima,
09:32
including --
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uključujući --
09:34
soon, I believe --
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vjerujem uskoro --
09:35
in places like China.
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i u područjima poput Kine.
09:38
So we need to reconfigure,
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Zato moramo preoblikovati,
09:41
we need to reunite the economic
and the political spheres,
and the political spheres,
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moramo ponovo ujediniti
ekonomsku i političku sferu,
ekonomsku i političku sferu,
09:44
but we'd better do it
by democratizing the reunified sphere,
by democratizing the reunified sphere,
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ali bilo bi bolje da to učinimo
demokratizacijom objedinjene sfere,
demokratizacijom objedinjene sfere,
09:50
lest we end up with
a surveillance-mad hyperautocracy
a surveillance-mad hyperautocracy
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kako ne bi na kraju imali
hiper-autokraciju opsjednutu nadzorom
hiper-autokraciju opsjednutu nadzorom
09:55
that makes The Matrix, the movie,
look like a documentary.
look like a documentary.
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u usporedbi s kojom film Matrix
izgleda kao dokumentarac.
izgleda kao dokumentarac.
10:00
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
10:01
So the question is not
whether capitalism will survive
whether capitalism will survive
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Dakle, pitanje nije hoće li
kapitalizam preživjeti
kapitalizam preživjeti
10:05
the technological innovations
it is spawning.
it is spawning.
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tehnološke inovacije čiji je začetnik.
10:07
The more interesting question
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Zanimljivije pitanje je
10:09
is whether capitalism will be succeeded
by something resembling a Matrix dystopia
by something resembling a Matrix dystopia
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hoće li nakon kapitalizma slijediti
nešto nalik na distopiju a la Matrix
nešto nalik na distopiju a la Matrix
10:15
or something much closer
to a Star Trek-like society,
to a Star Trek-like society,
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ili nešto puno bliže
društvu a la Star Trek
društvu a la Star Trek
10:19
where machines serve the humans
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gdje mašine služe ljudima
10:22
and the humans expend their energies
exploring the universe
exploring the universe
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a ljudi svoju energiju
ulažu u istraživanje svemira,
ulažu u istraživanje svemira,
10:26
and indulging in long debates
about the meaning of life
about the meaning of life
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prepuštajući se dugim
raspravama o značenju života
raspravama o značenju života
10:30
in some ancient, Athenian-like,
high tech agora.
high tech agora.
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u nekoj high-tech agori poput atenskih.
10:36
I think we can afford to be optimistic.
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Ja mislim da si možemo
dozvoliti da budemo optimistični.
dozvoliti da budemo optimistični.
10:41
But what would it take,
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No, što bi bilo potrebno,
10:42
what would it look like
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1976
kako bi to izgledalo
10:44
to have this Star Trek-like utopia,
instead of the Matrix-like dystopia?
instead of the Matrix-like dystopia?
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4880
da imamo utopiju a la Star Trek
umjesto distopiju a la Matrix?
umjesto distopiju a la Matrix?
10:50
In practical terms,
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U praksi,
10:51
allow me to share just briefly,
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dozvolite mi da ukratko izložim
10:53
a couple of examples.
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par primjera.
10:55
At the level of the enterprise,
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Na razini tvrtke,
10:56
imagine a capital market,
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zamislite tržište kapitala,
10:59
where you earn capital as you work,
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gdje radeći, istovremeno stječete kapital
11:02
and where your capital follows you
from one job to another,
from one job to another,
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i gdje vas vaš kapital slijedi
od jednog posla do drugog,
od jednog posla do drugog,
11:08
from one company to another,
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od jedne tvrtke do druge,
11:09
and the company --
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a tvrtka --
11:11
whichever one you happen
to work at at that time --
to work at at that time --
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za koju god radili u tom času --
11:14
is solely owned by those who happen
to work in it at that moment.
to work in it at that moment.
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je vlasništvo isključivo onih
koji u njoj u tom času rade.
koji u njoj u tom času rade.
11:19
Then all income stems
from capital, from profits,
from capital, from profits,
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Tada sav prihod proizlazi
iz kapitala, iz profita,
iz kapitala, iz profita,
11:24
and the very concept
of wage labor becomes obsolete.
of wage labor becomes obsolete.
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a sam koncept najamnog rada
zastarjeva.
zastarjeva.
11:28
No more separation between those
who own but do not work in the company
who own but do not work in the company
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Nema više razdvajanja između onih
koji posjeduju, ali ne rade u tvrtki
koji posjeduju, ali ne rade u tvrtki
11:35
and those who work
but do not own the company;
but do not own the company;
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i onih koji rade,
ali nisu vlasnici tvrtke;
ali nisu vlasnici tvrtke;
11:38
no more tug-of-war
between capital and labor;
between capital and labor;
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686440
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nema više potezanja konopa
između kapitala i rada;
između kapitala i rada;
11:42
no great gap between
investment and saving;
investment and saving;
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nema velikog jaza
između investiranja i štednje;
između investiranja i štednje;
11:46
indeed, no towering twin peaks.
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zapravo, nema visokih vrhova blizanaca.
11:50
At the level of the global
political economy,
political economy,
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Na razini globalne političke ekonomije
11:53
imagine for a moment
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zamislite na trenutak
11:54
that our national currencies
have a free-floating exchange rate,
have a free-floating exchange rate,
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da naše nacionalne valute
imaju fluktuirajući tečaj,
imaju fluktuirajući tečaj,
11:59
with a universal,
global, digital currency,
global, digital currency,
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s univerzalnom, globalnom,
digitalnom valutom
digitalnom valutom
12:03
one that is issued
by the International Monetary Fund,
by the International Monetary Fund,
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koju bi izdavao
Međunarodni monetarni fond,
Međunarodni monetarni fond,
12:07
the G-20,
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G-20,
12:09
on behalf of all humanity.
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u ime cijelog čovječanstva.
12:11
And imagine further
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I zamislite nadalje
12:12
that all international trade
is denominated in this currency --
is denominated in this currency --
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da se sva međunarodna trgovina
denominira u tu valutu --
denominira u tu valutu --
12:17
let's call it "the cosmos,"
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hajdemo je nazvati "kozmos",
12:19
in units of cosmos --
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u jedinice kozmosa --
i da svaka vlada pristane
uplaćivati u zajednički fond
uplaćivati u zajednički fond
12:21
with every government agreeing
to be paying into a common fund
to be paying into a common fund
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12:26
a sum of cosmos units proportional
to the country's trade deficit,
to the country's trade deficit,
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iznos jedinica kozmosa proporcionalan
trgovinskom deficitu dotične zemlje,
trgovinskom deficitu dotične zemlje,
12:31
or indeed to a country's trade surplus.
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ili trgovinskom suficitu te zemlje.
12:35
And imagine that that fund is utilized
to invest in green technologies,
to invest in green technologies,
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I zamislite da se taj fond koristi
za investiranje u zelene tehnologije,
za investiranje u zelene tehnologije,
12:40
especially in parts of the world
where investment funding is scarce.
where investment funding is scarce.
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posebno u dijelovima svijeta
s oskudnim investicijskim financiranjem.
s oskudnim investicijskim financiranjem.
12:46
This is not a new idea.
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Ovo nije nova ideja.
12:48
It's what, effectively,
John Maynard Keynes proposed
John Maynard Keynes proposed
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3336
To je, praktički, predlagao
John Maynard Keynes
John Maynard Keynes
12:51
in 1944 at the Bretton Woods Conference.
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1944. na konferenciji u Breton Woodsu.
12:56
The problem is
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Problem je u tome što
12:57
that back then, they didn't have
the technology to implement it.
the technology to implement it.
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u to vrijeme nisu imali tehnologiju
da bi to implementirali.
da bi to implementirali.
13:00
Now we do,
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Sada je imamo,
13:01
especially in the context
of a reunified political-economic sphere.
of a reunified political-economic sphere.
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posebno u kontekstu
objedinjene političko-ekonomske sfere.
objedinjene političko-ekonomske sfere.
13:08
The world that I am describing to you
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Svijet koji vam opisujem
13:11
is simultaneously libertarian,
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istovremeno je libertarijanski,
13:13
in that it prioritizes
empowered individuals,
empowered individuals,
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po tome što daje prednost
emancipiranim pojedincima,
emancipiranim pojedincima,
13:18
Marxist,
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marksistički,
13:19
since it will have confined
to the dustbin of history
to the dustbin of history
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budući da će zatvoriti
u ropotarnicu povijesti
u ropotarnicu povijesti
13:22
the division between capital and labor,
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podjelu između kapitala i rada,
13:25
and Keynesian,
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i kejnzianski,
13:27
global Keynesian.
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globalno kejnzianski.
13:30
But above all else,
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No, prije svega,
13:31
it is a world in which we will be able
to imagine an authentic democracy.
to imagine an authentic democracy.
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to je svijet u kojem ćemo moći
zamisliti autentičnu demokraciju.
zamisliti autentičnu demokraciju.
13:37
Will such a world dawn?
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Hoće li takav svijet osvanuti?
13:40
Or shall we descend
into a Matrix-like dystopia?
into a Matrix-like dystopia?
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Ili ćemo se spustiti u
distopiju a la Matrix?
distopiju a la Matrix?
13:44
The answer lies in the political choice
that we shall be making collectively.
that we shall be making collectively.
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Odgovor leži u političkom izboru
koji ćemo kolektivno činiti.
koji ćemo kolektivno činiti.
13:49
It is our choice,
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To je naš izbor,
13:51
and we'd better make it democratically.
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i bolje bi nam bilo da ga
načinimo demokratski.
načinimo demokratski.
13:54
Thank you.
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Hvala.
13:55
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
14:01
Bruno Giussani: Yanis ...
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Bruno Giussani: Yanis ...
14:03
It was you who described yourself
in your bios as a libertarian Marxist.
in your bios as a libertarian Marxist.
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U svojoj biografiji sami ste se opisali
kao libertarijanski marksist.
kao libertarijanski marksist.
14:10
What is the relevance
of Marx's analysis today?
of Marx's analysis today?
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Koja je važnost
marksističke analize danas?
marksističke analize danas?
Yanis Varoufakis: Pa, ako ima
ikakve važnosti u onome
ikakve važnosti u onome
14:14
Yanis Varoufakis: Well, if there was
any relevance in what I just said,
any relevance in what I just said,
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što sam upravo rekao
onda je Marx važan.
onda je Marx važan.
14:17
then Marx is relevant.
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Zato jer je cijela poanta objedinjavanja
političkog i ekonomskog --
političkog i ekonomskog --
14:18
Because the whole point of reunifying
the political and economic is --
the political and economic is --
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ako to ne učinimo,
14:22
if we don't do it,
269
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14:23
then technological innovation
is going to create
is going to create
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tehnološke inovacije će stvoriti
14:25
such a massive fall in aggregate demand,
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takav masivni pad agregatne potražnje,
14:27
what Larry Summers
refers to as secular stagnation.
refers to as secular stagnation.
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kojeg Larry Summers naziva
sekularna stagnacija.
sekularna stagnacija.
14:32
With this crisis migrating
from one part of the world,
from one part of the world,
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S ovom krizom koja migrira
iz jednog dijela svijeta,
iz jednog dijela svijeta,
14:35
as it is now,
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kao što je to sada,
14:37
it will destabilize
not only our democracies,
not only our democracies,
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to će destabilizirati
ne samo naše demokracije,
ne samo naše demokracije,
14:39
but even the emerging world that is not
that keen on liberal democracy.
that keen on liberal democracy.
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nego čak svijet koji nastaje, a koji
nije baš sklon liberalnoj demokraciji.
nije baš sklon liberalnoj demokraciji.
14:44
So if this analysis holds water,
then Marx is absolutely relevant.
then Marx is absolutely relevant.
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Pa, ako ova analiza ima smisla,
onda je Marx apsolutno relevantan.
onda je Marx apsolutno relevantan.
14:48
But so is Hayek,
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Ali isto tako je i Hayek,
zbog toga sam ja
libertarijanski marksista,
libertarijanski marksista,
14:49
that's why I'm a libertarian Marxist,
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14:51
and so is Keynes,
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a isto tako i Keynes,
14:52
so that's why I'm totally confused.
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pa sam zato potpuno zbunjen.
14:54
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:56
BG: Indeed, and possibly we are too, now.
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BG: Zaista, i vjerojatno nas je sad dvoje.
14:58
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:59
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
15:01
YV: If you are not confused,
you are not thinking, OK?
you are not thinking, OK?
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YV: Ako niste zbunjeni,
onda ne mislite, zar ne?
onda ne mislite, zar ne?
15:04
BG: That's a very, very Greek
philosopher kind of thing to say --
philosopher kind of thing to say --
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BG: To ste rekli baš kao grčki filozof --
15:07
YV: That was Einstein, actually --
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YV: Ustvari, to je bio Einstein --
15:09
BG: During your talk
you mentioned Singapore and China,
you mentioned Singapore and China,
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BG: U svom govoru
spomenuli ste Singapur i Kinu,
spomenuli ste Singapur i Kinu,
15:11
and last night at the speaker dinner,
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a jučer na večeri za govornike,
15:13
you expressed a pretty strong opinion
about how the West looks at China.
about how the West looks at China.
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izniijeli ste prilično čvrst stav
o tome kako Zapad gleda na Kinu.
o tome kako Zapad gleda na Kinu.
15:18
Would you like to share that?
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Biste li ga podijelili s nama?
15:20
YV: Well, there's a great
degree of hypocrisy.
degree of hypocrisy.
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YV: Pa, postoji visok stupanj licemjerja.
15:23
In our liberal democracies,
we have a semblance of democracy.
we have a semblance of democracy.
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U našim liberalnim demokracijama
mi imamo privid demokracije.
mi imamo privid demokracije.
15:27
It's because we have confined,
as I was saying in my talk,
as I was saying in my talk,
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To je zato jer smo ograničili,
kao što sam već rekao,
kao što sam već rekao,
15:30
democracy to the political sphere,
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demokraciju na političku sferu,
15:32
while leaving the one sphere
where all the action is --
where all the action is --
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ostavljajući onu sferu
u kojoj se sve zbiva --
u kojoj se sve zbiva --
15:35
the economic sphere --
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ekonomsku sferu --
15:36
a completely democracy-free zone.
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zonom potpuno lišenom demokracije.
15:39
In a sense,
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Na neki način,
15:40
if I am allowed to be provocative,
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ako smijem biti provokativan,
15:43
China today is closer to Britain
in the 19th century.
in the 19th century.
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4416
Kina je danas bliža Britaniji
u 19. stoljeću.
u 19. stoljeću.
15:48
Because remember,
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Jer, sjećate se,
mi smo skloni liberalizam
povezivati sa demokracijom --
povezivati sa demokracijom --
15:49
we tend to associate
liberalism with democracy --
liberalism with democracy --
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15:51
that's a mistake, historically.
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to je pogrešno, povijesno.
15:53
Liberalism, liberal,
it's like John Stuart Mill.
it's like John Stuart Mill.
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Liberalizam, liberal,
to je kao John Stuart Mill.
to je kao John Stuart Mill.
15:56
John Stuart Mill was particularly
skeptical about the democratic process.
skeptical about the democratic process.
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John Stuart Mill je bio posebno
skeptičan u vezi demokratskog procesa.
skeptičan u vezi demokratskog procesa.
16:00
So what you are seeing now in China
is a very similar process
is a very similar process
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Pa ono što danas vidite u Kini
je vrlo sličan proces
je vrlo sličan proces
16:06
to the one that we had in Britain
during the Industrial Revolution,
during the Industrial Revolution,
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onome što smo imali u Britaniji
tijekom Industrijske revolucije,
tijekom Industrijske revolucije,
16:09
especially the transition
from the first to the second.
from the first to the second.
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posebno prijelaza iz prve u drugu.
16:12
And to be castigating China
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I kažnjavanje Kine
16:15
for doing that which the West did
in the 19th century,
in the 19th century,
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jer radi ono što je Zapad
radio u 19. stoljeću,
radio u 19. stoljeću,
16:18
smacks of hypocrisy.
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1320
miriše na licemjerje.
16:21
BG: I am sure that many people here
are wondering about your experience
are wondering about your experience
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BG: Siguran sam da mnoge ljude ovdje
zanima vaše iskustvo
zanima vaše iskustvo
16:25
as the Finance Minister of Greece
earlier this year.
earlier this year.
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kao ministra financija Grčke,
ranije ove godine.
ranije ove godine.
YV: Znao sam da ovo slijedi.
16:27
YV: I knew this was coming.
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16:29
BG: Yes.
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BG: Da.
16:30
BG: Six months after,
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1336
BG: Šest mjeseci poslije,
16:32
how do you look back
at the first half of the year?
at the first half of the year?
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2400
kako gledate unazad na
prvu polovinu godine?
prvu polovinu godine?
16:35
YV: Extremely exciting,
from a personal point of view,
from a personal point of view,
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2616
YV: Izuzetno uzbudljivo,
s mog osobnog stanovišta,
s mog osobnog stanovišta,
16:38
and very disappointing,
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i vrlo razočaravajuće,
16:39
because we had an opportunity
to reboot the Eurozone.
to reboot the Eurozone.
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3896
jer smo imali priliku
iznova pokrenuti Eurozonu.
iznova pokrenuti Eurozonu.
16:43
Not just Greece, the Eurozone.
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Ne samo Grčku, Eurozonu.
16:45
To move away from the complacency
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Odmaknuti se od samodopadnosti
16:48
and the constant denial
that there was a massive --
that there was a massive --
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2456
i stalnog poricanja da postoji masivni --
16:51
and there is a massive
architectural fault line
architectural fault line
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2856
a postoji masivni arhitektonski rasjed
16:54
going through the Eurozone,
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2176
kroz Eurozonu
16:56
which is threatening, massively,
the whole of the European Union process.
the whole of the European Union process.
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4416
koji je ozbiljna prijetnja
cijelom procesu Europske unije.
cijelom procesu Europske unije.
17:00
We had an opportunity
on the basis of the Greek program --
on the basis of the Greek program --
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3176
Mi smo imali priliku da
na temelju grčkog programa
na temelju grčkog programa
17:04
which by the way,
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koji je, usput rečeno,
17:05
was the first program
to manifest that denial --
to manifest that denial --
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4376
bio prvi program koji je
pokazao to poricanje --
pokazao to poricanje --
17:09
to put it right.
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1216
to ispravimo.
17:11
And, unfortunately,
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1216
I, nažalost,
17:12
the powers in the Eurozone,
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1816
moćnici u Eurozoni,
17:14
in the Eurogroup,
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1200
u Eurogrupi,
17:16
chose to maintain denial.
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1024079
1977
odabrali su nastaviti poricanje.
17:18
But you know what happens.
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No, znate što se događa.
17:19
This is the experience
of the Soviet Union.
of the Soviet Union.
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1027359
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To je iskustvo Sovjetskog saveza.
17:21
When you try to keep alive
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1029440
2495
Kada pokušavate održati na životu
17:23
an economic system
that architecturally cannot survive,
that architecturally cannot survive,
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3879
ekonomski sustav
koji arhitektonski ne može preživjeti,
koji arhitektonski ne može preživjeti,
17:28
through political will
and through authoritarianism,
and through authoritarianism,
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2655
kroz političku volju
i kroz autoritarnost,
i kroz autoritarnost,
17:31
you may succeed in prolonging it,
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možda ćete uspjeti produžiti ga,
17:32
but when change happens
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no kada se dogode promjene
17:34
it happens very abruptly
and catastrophically.
and catastrophically.
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to se događa vrlo naglo i katastrofično.
17:37
BG: What kind of change
are you foreseeing?
are you foreseeing?
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1045000
2007
BG: Kakvu vrstu promjene predviđate?
17:39
YV: Well, there's no doubt
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1254
YV: Pa, nema sumnje
17:40
that if we don't change
the architecture of the Eurozone,
the architecture of the Eurozone,
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2667
da ako ne promijenimo
arhitekturu Eurozone,
arhitekturu Eurozone,
17:43
the Eurozone has no future.
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1051001
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Eurozona nema budućnosti.
17:44
BG: Did you make any mistakes
when you were Finance Minister?
when you were Finance Minister?
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BG: Jeste li činili greške
dok ste bili ministar financija?
dok ste bili ministar financija?
17:47
YV: Every day.
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YV: Svaki dan.
17:49
BG: For example?
YV: Anybody who looks back --
YV: Anybody who looks back --
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2536
BG: Na primjer?
YV: Svatko tko pogleda unazad --
YV: Svatko tko pogleda unazad --
17:51
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
17:56
No, but seriously.
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1376
Ne, ozbiljno.
17:57
If there's any Minister of Finance,
or of anything else for that matter,
or of anything else for that matter,
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3576
Ako postoji ijedan ministar financija,
ili bilo čega drugog,
ili bilo čega drugog,
18:01
who tells you after six months in a job,
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2216
koji vam kaže,
nakon šest mjeseci na poslu,
nakon šest mjeseci na poslu,
18:03
especially in such a stressful situation,
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3696
pogotovo u tako stresnoj situaciji,
da nije učinio niti jednu grešku,
to je opasan čovjek.
to je opasan čovjek.
18:07
that they have made no mistake,
they're dangerous people.
they're dangerous people.
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Naravno da sam činio greške.
18:09
Of course I made mistakes.
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Najveća greška bila je potpisivanje molbe
18:11
The greatest mistake
was to sign the application
was to sign the application
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18:13
for the extension of a loan agreement
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2096
za produljenje sporazuma o zajmu
18:16
in the end of February.
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1616
krajem veljače.
18:17
I was imagining
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1216
Ja sam zamišljao
18:18
that there was a genuine interest
on the side of the creditors
on the side of the creditors
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2976
da postoji istinski interes
na strani kreditora
na strani kreditora
da se nađe zajedničko rješenje.
18:21
to find common ground.
364
1089960
1256
18:23
And there wasn't.
365
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1216
A nije ga bilo.
18:24
They were simply interested
in crushing our government,
in crushing our government,
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2616
Njih je zanimalo samo
da sruše našu vladu,
da sruše našu vladu,
18:27
just because they did not want
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1456
samo zato jer nisu željeli
18:28
to have to deal with
the architectural fault lines
the architectural fault lines
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3136
da se moraju baviti
arhitektonskim rasjedima
arhitektonskim rasjedima
18:31
that were running through the Eurozone.
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2016
koji se se protezali kroz Europu.
18:33
And because they didn't want to admit
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1101800
1816
I zato jer nisu željeli priznati
18:35
that for five years they were implementing
a catastrophic program in Greece.
a catastrophic program in Greece.
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3616
da su pet godina provodili
katastrofalni program u Grčkoj.
katastrofalni program u Grčkoj.
Mi smo izgubili trećinu
našeg nominalnog BDP-a.
našeg nominalnog BDP-a.
18:39
We lost one-third of our nominal GDP.
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2896
18:42
This is worse than the Great Depression.
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1936
To je gore od Velike depresije.
A nitko nije priznao,
18:44
And no one has come clean
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18:45
from the troika of lenders
that have been imposing this policy
that have been imposing this policy
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od trojke zajmodavaca
koja je nametala te mjere,
koja je nametala te mjere,
18:48
to say, "This was a colossal mistake."
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i rekao, "Ovo je bila ogromna greška."
BG: Unatoč svemu tomu,
18:51
BG: Despite all this,
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1216
i unatoč agresivnosti diskusije,
18:52
and despite the aggressiveness
of the discussion,
of the discussion,
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2336
vi izgleda ostajete prilično pro-europski.
18:55
you seem to be remaining
quite pro-European.
quite pro-European.
379
1123000
2416
18:57
YV: Absolutely.
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1216
YV: Apsolutno.
18:58
Look, my criticism
of the European Union and the Eurozone
of the European Union and the Eurozone
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4136
Gledajte, moj kriticizam
Europske unije i Eurozone
Europske unije i Eurozone
19:02
comes from a person
who lives and breathes Europe.
who lives and breathes Europe.
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4040
dolazi od osobe koja živi i diše Europu.
19:07
My greatest fear is that
the Eurozone will not survive.
the Eurozone will not survive.
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3576
Moj najveći strah je
da Eurozona neće preživjeti.
da Eurozona neće preživjeti.
19:11
Because if it doesn't,
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1456
Zato jer ako neće,
19:12
the centrifugal forces
that will be unleashed
that will be unleashed
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1140760
2856
centrifugalne sile koje
će biti oslobođene
će biti oslobođene
19:15
will be demonic,
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1696
bit će demonske,
19:17
and they will destroy the European Union.
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1976
i uništiti će Europsku uniju.
19:19
And that will be catastrophic
not just for Europe
not just for Europe
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2416
I to će biti katastrofalno,
ne samo za Europu
ne samo za Europu
19:21
but for the whole global economy.
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1149800
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nego za cijelu globalnu ekonomiju.
19:23
We are probably the largest
economy in the world.
economy in the world.
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4096
Mi smo vjerojatno
najveća ekonomija na svijetu.
najveća ekonomija na svijetu.
I ako si mi dozvolimo
19:27
And if we allow ourselves
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1155560
1736
19:29
to fall into a route
of the postmodern 1930's,
of the postmodern 1930's,
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2816
da upadnemo u pravac
postmodernih 1930.-tih,
postmodernih 1930.-tih,
19:32
which seems to me to be what we are doing,
393
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2656
a meni se čini da je to ono što radimo,
19:34
then that will be detrimental
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1816
tada će to biti na uštrb
19:36
to the future of Europeans
and non-Europeans alike.
and non-Europeans alike.
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1164680
3416
budućih Europljana
kao i ne-europljana.
kao i ne-europljana.
19:40
BG: We definitely hope
you are wrong on that point.
you are wrong on that point.
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1168120
2416
BG: Definitivno se nadamo
da ste u krivu o tome.
da ste u krivu o tome.
19:42
Yanis, thank you for coming to TED.
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Yanis, hvala na dolasku na TED.
19:44
YV: Thank you.
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1216
YV: Hvala vama.
19:45
(Applause)
399
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Yanis Varoufakis - Economist and professorYanis Varoufakis thinks we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism.
Why you should listen
Yanis Varoufakis describes himself as a "libertarian Marxist," although, he says, "It is not something that I volunteer to talk about much, because the very mention of Marx switches audiences off." He teaches economic theory at the University of Athens, where he challenges mainstream notions -- arguing that after the financial crash of 2008 we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism.
He became widely known in the first half of 2015 when, as Minister of Finance of the newly formed Greek government, he was a leading, outspoken and much-discussed figure in the renegotiations of Greece's debt.
In May 2017, Varoufakis released Adults in The Room: My Battle With Europe’s Deep Establishment, a personal account of Europe's hidden agenda and an urgent wake-up call to renew European democracy.
Yanis Varoufakis | Speaker | TED.com