TEDSalon NY2011
Barry Schwartz: Using our practical wisdom
巴里•施瓦兹：运用我们的实用智慧
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Readability: 3.9
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在这个近距离的演讲中，巴里•施瓦兹深刻探讨了“我们怎样才能正确行事？”。在合作者肯尼斯· 夏普的帮助下， 他通过几个故事阐述了恪守规则和明智选择的不同。
Barry Schwartz - Psychologist
Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom. Full bio
Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:00
The first thing I want to do is say thank you to all of you.
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首先，我想要感谢大家
00:03
The second thing I want to do is introduce my co-author
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第二，我要介绍我的合著者
00:06
and dear friend and co-teacher.
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我亲密的朋友和合作老师，
00:08
Ken and I have been working together
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肯尼斯和我在一起工作
00:10
for almost 40 years.
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已经有将近40年了。
00:12
That's Ken Sharpe over there.
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肯尼斯·夏普就坐在那里。
00:14
(Applause)
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（掌声）
00:16
So there is among many people --
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很多人——
00:19
certainly me and most of the people I talk to --
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包括我，和大部份与我交谈过的人——
00:21
a kind of collective dissatisfaction
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有一种共同的不满:
00:24
with the way things are working,
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对社会上事情运作的方式,
00:26
with the way our institutions run.
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对于社会上机构运转的方式不满。
00:29
Our kids' teachers seem to be failing them.
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我们孩子的老师好象是辜负他们；
00:33
Our doctors don't know who the hell we are,
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我们的医生不知道我们究竟是谁，
00:36
and they don't have enough time for us.
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也没有足够的时间给我们。
00:38
We certainly can't trust the bankers,
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我们当然也不能信任银行家，
00:40
and we certainly can't trust the brokers.
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更不能相信股票经纪人，
00:43
They almost brought the entire financial system down.
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他们几乎弄垮了整个金融体系。
00:46
And even as we do our own work,
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甚至当我们只是做自己的工作时，
00:49
all too often,
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我们也常常会
00:51
we find ourselves having to choose
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会发现自己不得不选择，
00:54
between doing what we think is the right thing
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是做我们认为是正确的事，
00:57
and doing the expected thing,
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还是做被期望做的事，
00:59
or the required thing,
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或是做被要求做的事，
01:01
or the profitable thing.
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还是做有利益的事。
01:03
So everywhere we look,
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所以环顾周围，
01:05
pretty much across the board,
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基本上的情况都是，
01:07
we worry that the people we depend on
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我们担心我们所依靠的人
01:10
don't really have our interests at heart.
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并不真的在乎我们的利益；
01:14
Or if they do have our interests at heart,
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或者即使他们在心里面在乎，
01:17
we worry that they don't know us well enough
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我们担心他们不够了解我们
01:19
to figure out what they need to do
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来弄清他们该怎么做
01:21
in order to allow us
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才能让我们
01:23
to secure those interests.
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确保我们的利益和意愿。
01:25
They don't understand us.
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他们不理解我们。
01:27
They don't have the time to get to know us.
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他们也没有时间来认识我们。
01:29
There are two kinds of responses
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对这种普遍的不满足感，
01:31
that we make
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我们一般会有
01:33
to this sort of general dissatisfaction.
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两种反应。
01:37
If things aren't going right,
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如果事情出错了，
01:39
the first response is:
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第一种回应是：
01:41
let's make more rules,
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让我们制定更多的规则，
01:43
let's set up a set
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让我们设定一系列
01:45
of detailed procedures
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更详细的步骤和程序
01:47
to make sure that people will do the right thing.
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来确保人们做正确的事。
01:50
Give teachers scripts
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比如给老师能在课堂上
01:52
to follow in the classroom,
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遵守的教学守则，
01:54
so even if they don't know what they're doing
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那么即使他们不知道他们在做什么，
01:56
and don't care about the welfare of our kids,
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也不在乎我们孩子的福利和成长，
01:59
as long as they follow the scripts,
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只要他们遵守这些守则，
02:01
our kids will get educated.
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孩子们就能得到教育。
02:03
Give judges a list of mandatory sentences
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比如给法官一张必须执行的判罪清单
02:06
to impose for crimes,
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让他用来治罪
02:08
so that you don't need to rely
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所以你不再需要依赖
02:10
on judges using their judgment.
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法官们自己的判断。
02:13
Instead, all they have to do
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相反，他们所需做的一切
02:15
is look up on the list
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只是对照这个清单，
02:17
what kind of sentence goes with what kind of crime.
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看什么罪行应该给什么判决。
02:20
Impose limits
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比如规定
02:22
on what credit card companies can charge in interest
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信用卡公司能收取利息的范围，
02:25
and on what they can charge in fees.
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和什么方面能收取费用。
02:27
More and more rules
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有越来越多的条例
02:29
to protect us
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来保护我们
02:31
against an indifferent, uncaring
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来对付那些冷漠的没有人情味的
02:33
set of institutions we have to deal with.
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但是我们不得不面对的机构。
02:36
Or -- or maybe and --
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或者，或许应该说是并且，
02:38
in addition to rules,
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除了制定更多的规章条例之外，
02:40
let's see if we can come up
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看看我们还能不能想出
02:42
with some really clever incentives
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一些聪明的激励机制。
02:44
so that, even if the people we deal with
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那样即使如果我们面对的人
02:46
don't particularly want to serve our interests,
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并不特别想满足我们的意愿，
02:49
it is in their interest
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但是为了他们自己的利益
02:51
to serve our interest --
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他们也会来为我们服务--
02:53
the magic incentives
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也就是说，神奇的激励措施
02:55
that will get people to do the right thing
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能让人们纯粹出于私心
02:57
even out of pure selfishness.
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也能做正确的事。
03:00
So we offer teachers bonuses
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所以我们给老师提供奖金，
03:02
if the kids they teach
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如果他们所教的学生
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score passing grades on these big test scores
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能通过那些
03:07
that are used to evaluate
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用来衡量学校质量的
03:09
the quality of school systems.
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大型考试。
03:12
Rules and incentives --
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规则和奖励 --
03:14
"sticks" and "carrots."
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大棒和萝卜。
03:16
We passed a bunch of rules
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在这次金融危机之后，
03:18
to regulate the financial industry
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我们已经又通过了一大把规则
03:20
in response to the recent collapse.
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来规范金融行业。
03:22
There's the Dodd-Frank Act,
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有多德-弗郞克（Dodd-Frank） 法案（美国华尔街改革和个人消费者保护法案），
03:24
there's the new Consumer Financial Protection Agency
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成立了新的暂时实际上由伊丽莎白·罗伦（Elizabeth Warren）
03:27
that is temporarily being headed through the backdoor
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主管的
03:30
by Elizabeth Warren.
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消费者金融保护局。
03:32
Maybe these rules
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也许这些条例
03:34
will actually improve
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真能改善
03:37
the way these financial services companies behave.
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那些金融服务公司的行为方式。
03:41
We'll see.
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我们还需拭目以待。
03:43
In addition, we are struggling
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另一方面， 我们努力
03:45
to find some way to create incentives
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寻找创建激励机制的方法
03:48
for people in the financial services industry
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使得金融服务业界的人
03:51
that will have them more interested
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能够更重视
03:53
in serving the long-term interests
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为长远的利益服务，
03:55
even of their own companies,
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哪怕仅仅是为他们自己的公司的长远利益，
03:57
rather than securing short-term profits.
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而不只是为了取得近期眼前的利润。
04:01
So if we find just the right incentives,
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那样如果我们能找到合适的奖励机制，
04:03
they'll do the right thing -- as I said -- selfishly,
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他们也会“自私地”，如我所讲，做正确的事情。
04:06
and if we come up with the right rules and regulations,
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所以如果我们能制定正确的规章条例，
04:09
they won't drive us all over a cliff.
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他们就不会把我们都拉下悬崖。
04:12
And Ken [Sharpe] and I certainly know
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然而肯尼斯和我当然知道
04:15
that you need to reign in the bankers.
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我们应该支配银行家的行为！
04:18
If there is a lesson to be learned from the financial collapse
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如果从这次金融危机中我们应该学到什么，
04:21
it is that.
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就是这个教训。
04:23
But what we believe,
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但是我们相信，
04:25
and what we argue in the book,
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也是我们这本书的观点，
04:27
is that there is no set of rules,
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那就是：没有任何规定，
04:30
no matter how detailed,
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无论多详细，
04:32
no matter how specific,
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无论多具体，
04:34
no matter how carefully monitored
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无论监管和
04:36
and enforced,
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执行实施多么有力，
04:38
there is no set of rules
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没有任何条例
04:40
that will get us what we need.
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能让我们得到我们起初所希望的。
04:42
Why? Because bankers are smart people.
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为什么？因为银行家很聪明，
04:46
And, like water,
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像水一样，
04:48
they will find cracks
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他们能从任何规定和条例中
04:50
in any set of rules.
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找到漏洞和可乘之机。
04:53
You design a set of rules that will make sure
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你设订一系列法案来确保
04:56
that the particular reason
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那个使整个金融系统
04:58
why the financial system "almost-collapse"
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几乎崩溃的特定原因
05:00
can't happen again.
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不再发生；
05:02
It is naive beyond description
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但如果你认为
05:04
to think that having blocked
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只要把这个导致金融危机的源头堵住了，
05:06
this source of financial collapse,
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就堵住了所有可能
05:08
you have blocked all possible sources of financial collapse.
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导致金融系统崩溃的源头，那未免太天真了。
05:11
So it's just a question of waiting for the next one
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所以这只是等待下一次危机，
05:14
and then marveling at how we could have been so stupid
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然后惊异于我们怎么这么愚蠢，
05:17
as not to protect ourselves against that.
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竟然没有防备到这一招，没有保护到自己。
05:20
What we desperately need,
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我们真正急需的，
05:22
beyond, or along with, better rules
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不光是更完善的制度，
05:25
and reasonably smart incentives,
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和聪明合理的激励，
05:27
is we need virtue.
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而是我们需要美德，
05:30
We need character.
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我们需要人格，
05:32
We need people who want to do the right thing.
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我们需要想要做正确的事的人。
05:35
And in particular,
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特别地，
05:37
the virtue that we need most of all
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我们最需要的美德
05:40
is the virtue that Aristotle called
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是亚里斯多德所称的
05:42
"practical wisdom."
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实用智慧。
05:45
Practical wisdom
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实用智慧-
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is the moral will
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是做正确的事
05:49
to do the right thing
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的道德意志；
05:51
and the moral skill
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是知道什么是正确的
05:53
to figure out what the right thing is.
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道德技巧。
05:56
So Aristotle was very interested in watching
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所以亚里斯多德对于观察
05:59
how the craftsmen around him worked.
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他周围的工匠如何工作很感兴趣。
06:02
And he was impressed
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他对于他们
06:04
at how they would improvise
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如何即兴针对
06:06
novel solutions to novel problems --
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他们也没意料的新问题想出
06:08
problems that they hadn't anticipated.
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新奇的解决方案印象深刻。
06:10
So one example is he sees these stonemasons
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举一个例子：他看到一些石匠
06:12
working on the Isle of Lesbos,
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在莱斯博斯岛做工，
06:15
and they need to measure out
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他们需要测量
06:17
round columns.
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那里的圆柱。
06:19
Well if you think about it,
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如果你想想的话，
06:21
it's really hard to measure out round columns using a ruler.
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用直尺量圆柱真的很难。
06:24
So what do they do?
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所以他们怎么办呢？
06:26
They fashion a novel solution to the problem.
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他们发明了一种新奇的手段。
06:29
They created a ruler that bends,
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他们制作了一种可以弯曲的尺，
06:32
what we would call these days a tape measure --
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也就是现在我们说的卷尺——
06:35
a flexible rule,
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一把灵活的尺
06:37
a rule that bends.
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可弯曲的尺。
06:39
And Aristotle said,
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亚里斯多德就说：
06:41
"Hah, they appreciated that sometimes
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哈，他们也知道有时候
06:44
to design rounded columns,
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要设计圆的柱子，
06:47
you need to bend the rule."
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你需要通融（放松规定）。
06:50
And Aristotle said
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亚里斯多德又说，
06:52
often in dealing with other people,
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对待别人
06:55
we need to bend the rules.
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我们也需要时常通融处理。
06:58
Dealing with other people
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与人相处
07:00
demands a kind of flexibility
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其实需要一定的灵活性，
07:03
that no set of rules can encompass.
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那是没有任何规章条例可以代替的。
07:06
Wise people know when and how
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聪明的人知道什么时候，怎么样
07:08
to bend the rules.
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去酌情处理，不完全遵守死规定。
07:10
Wise people know how to improvise.
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有智慧的人知道如何针对具体情况恰当地处理。
07:13
The way my co-author , Ken, and I talk about it,
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我的合著者肯尼斯和我说起这个，
07:16
they are kind of like jazz musicians.
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他们就像爵士音乐家；
07:18
The rules are like the notes on the page,
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规章制度就像纸上的音符，
07:20
and that gets you started,
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你先按照音符所定的曲调开始，
07:22
but then you dance around the notes on the page,
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但是然后你便在音符之间即兴发挥，
07:25
coming up with just the right combination
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与当时那些一起表演的人一起
07:27
for this particular moment
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跳出那些最符合当时那个时刻的
07:29
with this particular set of fellow players.
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最美妙的最佳配合。
07:32
So for Aristotle,
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所以对于亚里斯多德，
07:34
the kind
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这种
07:37
of rule-bending,
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酌情处理，
07:40
rule exception-finding and improvisation
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你从熟练工匠中
07:43
that you see in skilled craftsmen
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能看到的即兴发挥和不死板执行规定，
07:45
is exactly what you need
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正是你要成为一个道德层面的熟练工匠
07:47
to be a skilled moral craftsman.
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所需要的。
07:50
And in interactions with people,
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并且在对待他人
07:52
almost all the time,
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的几乎任何时候，
07:54
it is this kind of flexibility that is required.
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这种一定程度的灵活性是必须的。
07:56
A wise person knows when to bend the rules.
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聪明人知道什么时候不死板地按照规矩办事。
07:59
A wise person knows when to improvise.
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有智慧的人知道何时应该即兴发挥。
08:01
And most important,
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最重要的是，
08:03
a wise person does this improvising and rule-bending
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智慧的人做这种即兴发挥和酌情处理
08:06
in the service of the right aims.
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是为着正义的目的。
08:10
If you are a rule-bender and an improviser
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如果你不按章办事，灵活处理的目的
08:13
mostly to serve yourself,
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只是为了自己的利益，
08:15
what you get is ruthless manipulation of other people.
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你就只是对他人无情的控制和摆布。
08:18
So it matters that you do this wise practice
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所以重要的是你做这种灵活处理的行为
08:20
in the service of others
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是为他人服务，
08:22
and not in the service of yourself.
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而不是为自己。
08:24
And so the will to do the right thing
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所以想要做正义事情的愿望
08:27
is just as important as the moral skill
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与即兴发挥
08:29
of improvisation
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和特殊情况特殊处理
08:31
and exception-finding.
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的道德技巧一样重要。
08:33
Together they comprise practical wisdom,
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这些品质拼在一起就是实用智慧——
08:36
which Aristotle thought
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亚里斯多德认为的
08:38
was the master virtue.
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所有美德之核心。
08:40
So I'll give you an example
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让我来举一个
08:42
of wise practice in action.
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这种智慧实践的例子。
08:44
It's the case of Michael.
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这是迈克的故事。
08:47
Michael's a young guy.
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迈克是一个年轻人。
08:49
He had a pretty low-wage job.
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他有一份很低薪的工作，
08:51
He was supporting his wife and a child,
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得养活妻子和一个孩子，
08:54
and the child was going to parochial school.
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孩子将要上教区学校。
08:56
Then he lost his job.
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然而他丢了工作，
08:59
He panicked
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他极度惊慌担忧
09:01
about being able to support his family.
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能不能继续养家糊口。
09:04
One night, he drank a little too much,
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一天晚上，他喝的有点多，
09:07
and he robbed a cab driver --
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抢劫了一个出租司机，
09:09
stole 50 dollars.
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偷了50美金。
09:11
He robbed him at gunpoint.
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他是用枪来抢劫的，
09:13
It was a toy gun.
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用的是把玩具枪。
09:16
He got caught. He got tried.
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他被抓住了，被控告，
09:19
He got convicted.
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被定罪了。
09:21
The Pennsylvania sentencing guidelines
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宾夕法尼亚的判决条例
09:24
required a minimum sentence for a crime like this
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要求对于这类罪行的处罚
09:27
of two years, 24 months.
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最低为两年，24个月。
09:29
The judge on the case, Judge Lois Forer
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这个案子的法官，法官罗易斯·佛热（Lois Forer）
09:32
thought that this made no sense.
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认为条例在这个案子上没有道理。
09:35
He had never committed a crime before.
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迈克以前没有过任何犯罪记录，
09:38
He was a responsible husband and father.
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他是一个负责任的丈夫和父亲，
09:41
He had been faced with desperate circumstances.
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他面对的是绝望的处境。
09:43
All this would do is wreck a family.
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条例所规定的判决只会毁了这个家，
09:46
And so she improvised a sentence -- 11 months,
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于是她酌情处理出一个判决——11个月。
09:49
and not only that,
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不仅那样，
09:51
but release every day to go to work.
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还每天把迈克释放出去让他去工作。
09:53
Spend your night in jail, spend your day holding down a job.
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晚上坐监，白天工作。
09:56
He did. He served out his sentence.
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迈克这么做了。他服完了他的判决。
09:59
He made restitution
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他做出了赔偿，
10:01
and found himself a new job.
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找到了新工作，
10:03
And the family was united.
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家庭复原了。
10:06
And it seemed on the road
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一切似乎在通往
10:08
to some sort of a decent life --
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一种得体生活的正轨上——
10:11
a happy ending to a story
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一个有智慧的法官
10:14
involving wise improvisation
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作了酌情处理之后的故事的
10:16
from a wise judge.
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完美结局。
10:19
But it turned out
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但是结果呢，
10:22
the prosecutor was not happy
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检察官不高兴，
10:25
that Judge Forer ignored the sentencing guidelines
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说佛热法官没有按照判决条例办事，
10:28
and sort of invented her own,
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而是随便发明了她自己的判决，
10:30
and so he appealed.
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所以他再上诉反对。
10:33
And he asked for the mandatory minimum sentence
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他要求按照持枪抢劫罪名的
10:36
for armed robbery.
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最低处罚来定罪。
10:38
He did after all have a toy gun.
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毕竟，迈克的确用了一把玩具枪。
10:41
The mandatory minimum sentence for armed robbery
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持枪抢劫的最低处罚
10:43
is five years.
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是 5 年。
10:46
He won the appeal.
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检察官赢了上诉。
10:48
Michael was sentenced to five years in prison.
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迈克被判坐监5年。
10:52
Judge Forer had to follow the law.
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佛热法官必须按法律办事。
10:56
And by the way, this appeal went through
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另外说一句， 上诉通过时，
10:58
after he had finished serving his sentence,
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是在迈克已经结束服刑之后，
11:00
so he was out and working at a job
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所以他已经在外开始工作，
11:03
and taking care of his family
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照料他的家庭，
11:05
and he had to go back into jail.
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但他现在得重返监狱。
11:07
Judge Forer did what she was required to do,
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佛热法官做了法律要求她做的，
11:10
and then she quit the bench.
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接着她辞职了。
11:14
And Michael disappeared.
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迈克呢，消失了。
11:18
So that is an example,
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所以这就是一个
11:20
both of wisdom in practice
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既有智慧的实践，
11:22
and the subversion of wisdom
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也有智慧被那些本来是
11:24
by rules that are meant, of course, to make things better.
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应该让事情更好的规定所颠覆推翻的例子。
11:27
Now consider Ms. Dewey.
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现在来讲杜伊（Dewey）女士的故事。
11:29
Ms. Dewey's a teacher in a Texas elementary school.
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杜伊女士是德州小学的一名教师。
11:32
She found herself listening to a consultant one day
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一天她在听一个咨询顾问
11:35
who was trying to help teachers
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给老师提建议
11:37
boost the test scores of the kids,
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来提高学生成绩，
11:39
so that the school
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那样学校
11:41
would reach the elite category
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就可以因为通过大型考试的学生的比例
11:44
in percentage of kids passing big tests.
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成为精英学校。
11:46
All these schools in Texas compete with one another
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所以这些在德州的学校相互竞争
11:48
to achieve these milestones,
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来达到这些通过指标，
11:50
and there are bonuses and various other treats
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并且如果你打败了其他学校
11:53
that come if you beat the other schools.
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你就能得到各种各样的奖励和优惠。
11:56
So here was the consultant's advice:
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所以咨询顾问的建议是：
11:59
first, don't waste your time on kids
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第一：不要在那些不管你做什么，都能够通过考试的
12:02
who are going to pass the test no matter what you do.
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学生身上浪费时间；
12:06
Second, don't waste your time
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第二，不要在不管你做什么
12:08
on kids who can't pass the test
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都通过不了考试的学生身上
12:11
no matter what you do.
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浪费时间；
12:13
Third, don't waste your time
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第三，不要在那些
12:15
on kids who moved into the district
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太迟进入这个学区，成绩不会记入评比系统的
12:18
too late for their scores to be counted.
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学生身上浪费时间。
12:21
Focus all of your time and attention
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集中所有你们的时间和注意力
12:24
on the kids who are on the bubble,
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在那些边界线上的孩子身上，
12:27
the so-called "bubble kids" --
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简称边界孩子——
12:29
kids where your intervention
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那些通过你们的介入和努力
12:31
can get them just maybe over the line
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也许能从不及格
12:33
from failing to passing.
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到通过考试的孩子。
12:35
So Ms. Dewey heard this,
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那么杜伊女士听到了这个，
12:37
and she shook her head in despair
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她绝望地摇头，
12:40
while fellow teachers were sort of cheering each other on
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然而她的同事老师们却互相欢呼，
12:43
and nodding approvingly.
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赞许地点头，
12:45
It's like they were about to go play a football game.
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就好像他们正要去一场橄榄球比赛一样。
12:47
For Ms. Dewey,
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但是杜伊女士觉得，
12:49
this isn't why she became a teacher.
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这不是她成为老师的目的啊。
12:52
Now Ken and I are not naive,
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应该说，肯尼斯和我并不天真，
12:54
and we understand that you need to have rules.
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我们理解这个社会需要规章条例，
12:57
You need to have incentives.
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也需要刺激和奖励。
12:59
People have to make a living.
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人们需要谋生。
13:01
But the problem
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但是依赖规矩和激励
13:03
with relying on rules and incentives
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的问题在于
13:05
is that they demoralize
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它们使人们对工作
13:08
professional activity,
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觉得很没意思。
13:10
and they demoralize professional activity
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它们让人觉得职业活动很没意思
13:12
in two senses.
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有两方面。
13:14
First, they demoralize the people
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第一，他们使人们
13:16
who are engaged in the activity.
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工作起来觉得没劲。
13:18
Judge Forer quits,
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佛热法官辞职了，
13:20
and Ms. Dewey in completely disheartened.
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杜伊女士彻底沮丧。
13:22
And second,
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第二，
13:24
they demoralize the activity itself.
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他们使活动本身没有意思。
13:26
The very practice is demoralized,
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活动本身没劲，
13:29
and the practitioners are demoralized.
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参加的人沮丧。
13:31
It creates people --
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当你想通过不同的奖励
13:33
when you manipulate incentives to get people to do the right thing --
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来刺激人们做对的事时,
13:36
it creates people
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人们逐渐对
13:38
who are addicted to incentives.
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这些奖励上瘾。
13:40
That is to say, it creates people
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也就是说，它产生的是
13:42
who only do things for incentives.
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只为奖励做事的人。
13:44
Now the striking thing about this
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引人注目的是，
13:46
is that psychologists have known this
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心理学家知道这一点
13:48
for 30 years.
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已经有30年。
13:50
Psychologists have known
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心理学家已经知道
13:52
about the negative consequences of incentivizing everything
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把所有事情都用奖励来驱动的负面结果
13:55
for 30 years.
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有30年了。
13:57
We know that if you reward kids for drawing pictures,
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我们知道如果你奖励孩子画画，
14:00
they stop caring about the drawing
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他们停止关心画画本身，
14:02
and care only about the reward.
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而只在乎奖励；
14:04
If you reward kids for reading books,
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如果你奖励孩子读书，
14:06
they stop caring about what's in the books
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他们停止关心书的内容
14:09
and only care about how long they are.
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而只关心书有多厚；
14:11
If you reward teachers for kids' test scores,
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如果你为孩子的成绩奖励老师，
14:14
they stop caring about educating
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他们不再关心教育本身，
14:16
and only care about test preparation.
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而只是关心备考。
14:18
If you were to reward doctors
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如果你去奖励医生
14:20
for doing more procedures --
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走更多的检查程序，
14:22
which is the current system -- they would do more.
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现在的系统正是这样， 那他们就会去走更多的程序。
14:24
If instead you reward doctors for doing fewer procedures,
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如果你奖励他们走少些步骤，
14:27
they will do fewer.
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他们就会少走步骤。
14:29
What we want, of course,
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而我们需要的
14:31
is doctors who do just the right amount of procedures
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是医生提供恰如其分的检查步骤，
14:33
and do the right amount for the right reason --
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为了正当的理由做适量的工作，
14:36
namely, to serve the welfare of their patients.
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换句话说， 为病人的福利服务。
14:39
Psychologists have known this for decades,
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心理学家知道这个已经有几十年了，
14:41
and it's time for policymakers
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现在是政策制定者开始
14:44
to start paying attention
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关心这个的时候了，
14:46
and listen to psychologists a little bit,
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他们应该听听心理学家的，
14:49
instead of economists.
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而不只是经济学家的建议。
14:52
And it doesn't have to be this way.
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社会本来不必像现在这样，
14:54
We think, Ken and I, that there are real sources of hope.
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我和肯尼斯都认为希望是真的存在的。
14:57
We identify one set of people
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我们从所有这些领域中
14:59
in all of these practices
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发现有一批人，
15:01
who we call canny outlaws.
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一些我们称为精明的犯规者的人。
15:03
These are people
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这些
15:05
who, being forced to operate
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被逼在这个
15:08
in a system that demands rule-following
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要求照章办事
15:10
and creates incentives,
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和制造奖励机制的系统里工作的人
15:12
find away around the rules,
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在规范中钻空子，
15:14
find a way to subvert the rules.
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找到推倒规则的方法。
15:17
So there are teachers who have these scripts to follow,
377
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所以，需要按照教案上课的老师
15:19
and they know that if they follow these scripts, the kids will learn nothing.
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当他们知道用这些教案的话，孩子会一无所获时，
15:22
And so what they do is they follow the scripts,
379
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他们就要按照教案
15:25
but they follow the scripts at double-time
380
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3000
快速地走一遍，
15:28
and squirrel away little bits of extra time
381
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拐弯抹角地找出多余的时间，
15:31
during which they teach in the way
382
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来用他们知道的
15:33
that they actually know is effective.
383
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有效的办法来教学。
15:36
So these are little ordinary, everyday heroes,
384
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这些人是平常人物，是日常生活中的英雄，
15:39
and they're incredibly admirable,
385
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但是极其令人钦佩。
15:41
but there's no way that they can sustain this kind of activity
386
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3000
但是他们不可能保持这样的做法太久，
15:44
in the face of a system
387
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因为他们面对的是一个系统，
15:46
that either roots them out
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这个系统不是将他们剔除出去
15:48
or grinds them down.
389
948000
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就是把他们磨碎让他们屈服。
15:50
So canny outlaws are better than nothing,
390
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但是有这些精明的犯规者比没有要好，
15:52
but it's hard to imagine any canny outlaw
391
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但是很难想象这样的犯规
15:54
sustaining that for an indefinite period of time.
392
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行为能长期持续。
15:57
More hopeful
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更有希望的
15:59
are people we call system-changers.
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是那些我们称之为改变系统的人。
16:01
These are people who are looking
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这些人不是
16:03
not to dodge the system's rules and regulations,
396
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3000
躲避系统规则和制度，
16:06
but to transform the system,
397
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而是寻求改变系统的方法。
16:08
and we talk about several.
398
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我们讲几个这样的例子。
16:10
One in particular
399
970000
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其中特别要提到的
16:12
is a judge named Robert Russell.
400
972000
3000
是一个叫罗伯特·罗素（Robert Russel）的法官。
16:15
And one day he was faced
401
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2000
有一天他接了
16:17
with the case of Gary Pettengill.
402
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3000
加里·佩腾吉（Gary Pettengill）的案子。
16:20
Pettengill was a 23-year-old vet
403
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佩腾吉是一个23岁的老兵，
16:23
who had planned to make the army a career,
404
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他原来想在军队里发展职业生涯，
16:25
but then he got a severe back injury in Iraq,
405
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但是在伊拉克受了严重的背伤
16:27
and that forced him to take a medical discharge.
406
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而被迫病退。
16:30
He was married, he had a third kid on the way,
407
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他结了婚， 第三个孩子就要出生，
16:33
he suffered from PTSD, in addition to the bad back,
408
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除了背伤之外， 他还得了创伤后应激障碍，
16:36
and recurrent nightmares,
409
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会反复做恶梦。
16:38
and he had started using marijuana
410
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他开始用大麻
16:40
to ease some of the symptoms.
411
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来帮助减轻一些症状，
16:43
He was only able to get part-time work because of his back,
412
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因为背伤，他只能做一些兼职工作，
16:46
and so he was unable to earn enough to put food on the table
413
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所以他赚的钱不够
16:49
and take care of his family.
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养家糊口，
16:51
So he started selling marijuana.
415
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所以他开始卖大麻。
16:53
He was busted in a drug sweep.
416
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他在一次扫毒活动中被抓获。
16:56
His family was kicked out of their apartment,
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他的全家被赶出了公寓，
16:58
and the welfare system
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福利系统
17:00
was threatening to take away his kids.
419
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要把他的孩子带走。
17:02
Under normal sentencing procedures,
420
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如果按正常的审判过程，
17:04
Judge Russell would have had little choice
421
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罗素法官别无选择，
17:07
but to sentence Pettengill to serious jail-time
422
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只能把佩腾吉当作毒品犯人
17:09
as a drug felon.
423
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判他蹲很多年监狱。
17:12
But Judge Russell did have an alternative.
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但是法官罗素有另外一条途径，
17:15
And that's because he was in a special court.
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因为他是在一个特殊的法庭，
17:18
He was in a court called the Veterans' Court.
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他所在的法庭是老兵法庭。
17:21
In the Veterans' Court --
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在老兵法庭——
17:23
this was the first of its kind in the United States.
428
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这是美国的第一个这类的法庭，
17:26
Judge Russell created the Veterans' Court.
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法官罗素创立了这个老兵法庭，
17:28
It was a court only for veterans
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专门给触犯法律的
17:30
who had broken the law.
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老兵用的法庭。
17:33
And he had created it exactly because
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他之所以创立这个法庭正是因为
17:35
mandatory sentencing laws
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强制性判刑的法律
17:37
were taking the judgment out of judging.
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使得判刑过程中已经不用作判断。
17:40
No one wanted non-violent offenders --
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没有人真的想把非暴力的犯罪分子——
17:43
and especially non-violent offenders who were veterans to boot --
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特别是非暴力的犯了罪的老兵——
17:46
to be thrown into prison.
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送进监狱。
17:48
They wanted to do something about what we all know,
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他们想要做一点我们称之为
17:51
namely the revolving door of the criminal justice system.
439
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刑事司法系统的旋转大门的事情。
17:54
And what the Veterans' Court did,
440
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而老兵法庭所做的
17:56
was it treated each criminal as an individual,
441
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就是把每个罪犯都当人看，
17:59
tried to get inside their problems,
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试图弄清楚他们的问题，
18:02
tried to fashion responses to their crimes
443
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试图针对他们的罪行找到某种方式
18:05
that helped them to rehabilitate themselves,
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来帮助他们改造自己，
18:07
and didn't forget about them once the judgment was made.
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而不是一旦判了刑就忘了他们。
18:10
Stayed with them, followed up on them,
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而是和他们一起， 跟踪他们的发展，
18:13
made sure that they were sticking to whatever plan
447
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保证他们在按共同制定的计划
18:15
had been jointly developed
448
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在改造，
18:17
to get them over the hump.
449
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以帮他们度过难关。
18:19
There are now 22 cities
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现在已经有22个城市
18:21
that have Veterans' Courts like this.
451
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有类似的老兵法庭了。
18:23
Why has the idea spread?
452
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为什么这个点子会得到传播呢？
18:26
Well, one reason is
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一个原因
18:28
that Judge Russell
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是罗素法官到今年2月份为止，
18:30
has now seen 108 vets
455
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已经在老兵法庭
18:32
in his Veterans' Court
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处理了
18:34
as of February of this year,
457
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108个老兵的案子，
18:36
and out of 108,
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108个案子中，
18:38
guess how many have gone back through
459
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你们猜猜有几个重新
18:40
the revolving door of justice
460
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走进审判的大门
18:42
into prison.
461
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被投入监狱的呢？
18:44
None. None.
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一个也没有，一个也没有。
18:46
Anyone would glom onto
463
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任何人做梦都希望
18:49
a criminal justice system
464
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刑事司法系统
18:51
that has this kind of a record.
465
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能有这样的记录。
18:53
So here's is a system-changer, and it seems to be catching.
466
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所以这是一个改造系统者，其成果令人瞩目。
18:56
There's a banker
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另外有一个银行家，
18:58
who created a for-profit community bank
468
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创造了营利的社区银行，
19:00
that encouraged bankers -- I know this is hard to believe --
469
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鼓励银行家，我知道这个难以置信
19:03
encouraged bankers who worked there to do well
470
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鼓励在那里工作的银行家门通过帮助
19:06
by doing good for their low-income clients.
471
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低收入的顾客来达成自己的工作目标。
19:09
The bank helped finance the rebuilding
472
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那家银行帮助筹资重建了
19:12
of what was otherwise a dying community.
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一个原本快要垮了的社区。
19:15
Though their loan recipients were high-risk by ordinary standards,
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虽然按常规来讲给他们的贷款对象贷款的风险很高，
19:18
the default rate was extremely low.
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但是事实上违约率却很低。
19:21
The bank was profitable.
476
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3000
这家银行盈利不错。
19:24
The bankers stayed with their loan recipients.
477
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2000
那些银行家们与贷款客户一起，
19:26
They didn't make loans and then sell the loans.
478
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他们并不只是制造和出售贷款，
19:28
They serviced the loans.
479
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2000
他们是给贷款服务，
19:30
They made sure that their loan recipients
480
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2000
他们保证他们的贷款人
19:32
were staying up with their payments.
481
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3000
有能力持续还贷。
19:35
Banking hasn't always been
482
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银行业并不一直是
19:38
the way we read about it now in the newspapers.
483
1178000
4000
象我们现在报纸里读到的那样。
19:42
Even Goldman Sachs
484
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即便是高盛，
19:44
once used to serve clients,
485
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在变成一个只给自己服务的机构之前
19:47
before it turned into an institution
486
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3000
也曾经是为客户
19:50
that serves only itself.
487
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2000
提供服务的。
19:52
Banking wasn't always this way,
488
1192000
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银行业以前并不像现在，
19:54
and it doesn't have to be this way.
489
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也不必须是现在这个样子。
19:59
So there are examples like this in medicine --
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在医学界也有这样的例子——
20:02
doctors at Harvard
491
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在哈佛的博士们
20:04
who are trying to transform medical education,
492
1204000
2000
正在尝试医学教育改革，
20:06
so that you don't get a kind of ethical erosion
493
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2000
让你不会像现在的医学院学生一样，
20:08
and loss of empathy,
494
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在接受专业训练的过程中
20:10
which characterizes most medical students
495
1210000
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道德标准降低，
20:12
in the course of their medical training.
496
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同情心磨灭。
20:14
And the way they do it is to give third-year medical students
497
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他们用的方法是为三年级的学生
20:17
patients who they follow for an entire year.
498
1217000
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分配病人，他们要跟踪病人一整年。
20:19
So the patients are not organ systems,
499
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2000
这样病人就不只是器官组成的系统而已，
20:21
and they're not diseases;
500
1221000
2000
不只是疾病，
20:23
they're people, people with lives.
501
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2000
他们是人， 是有血有肉的活人。
20:25
And in order to be an effective doctor,
502
1225000
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想成为一个成功有效的医生，
20:27
you need to treat people who have lives and not just disease.
503
1227000
3000
对待病人应该像对待一个有生命的人，而不只是带有疾病的人。
20:30
In addition to which there's an enormous amount of back and forth,
504
1230000
3000
另外， 还有很多来回的反复
20:33
mentoring of one student by another,
505
1233000
2000
让学生互相辅导，
20:35
of all the students by the doctors,
506
1235000
3000
让医生指导所有的学生，
20:38
and the result is a generation -- we hope -- of doctors
507
1238000
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这样做的结果是——我们希望——下一代的医生
20:41
who do have time for the people they treat.
508
1241000
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能为他们治疗的病人付出病人需要的时间。
20:43
We'll see.
509
1243000
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我们拭目以待。
20:45
So there are lots of examples like this that we talk about.
510
1245000
3000
还有很多类似我们讲的事例。
20:48
Each of them shows that it is possible
511
1248000
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每个事例都告诉我们
20:50
to build on and nurture character
512
1250000
3000
树立和培养人格，
20:53
and keep a profession
513
1253000
2000
同时，让所有职业都忠实于其真正的使命——
20:55
true to its proper mission --
514
1255000
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就是亚里斯多德所说的“真正终级目标”——
20:57
what Aristotle would have called its proper telos.
515
1257000
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是可能的。
21:01
And Ken and I believe
516
1261000
2000
肯尼斯和我都相信
21:03
that this is what practitioners actually want.
517
1263000
3000
这就是实践者真正想要的。
21:06
People want to be allowed
518
1266000
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人们希望能够
21:08
to be virtuous.
519
1268000
2000
做有品德的人，
21:10
They want to have permission to do the right thing.
520
1270000
3000
他们希望得到允许做正确的事情。
21:13
They don't want to feel
521
1273000
2000
他们不想
21:15
like they need to take a shower
522
1275000
2000
每天下班回家以后感觉好像都要冲一个澡来
21:17
to get the moral grime off their bodies everyday
523
1277000
3000
冲刷干净他们身上的
21:20
when they come home from work.
524
1280000
3000
道德污垢。
21:23
Aristotle thought that practical wisdom
525
1283000
2000
亚里斯多德认为酌情处理的智慧
21:25
was the key to happiness,
526
1285000
2000
是快乐幸福的关键，
21:27
and he was right.
527
1287000
3000
他是对的。
21:30
There's now a lot of research being done in psychology
528
1290000
3000
心理学已经做了大量的研究
21:33
on what makes people happy,
529
1293000
2000
来证明什么使得人们幸福，
21:35
and the two things that jump out in study after study --
530
1295000
3000
两样东西在研究中一再凸显，
21:38
I know this will come as a shock to all of you --
531
1298000
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我知道这会让你们大吃一惊，
21:40
the two things that matter most to happiness
532
1300000
3000
对幸福度最有影响的两个东西是：
21:43
are love and work.
533
1303000
3000
爱和工作。
21:46
Love: managing successfully
534
1306000
3000
爱，就是成功地处理
21:49
relations with the people who are close to you
535
1309000
2000
和你亲近的人的关系，
21:51
and with the communities of which you are a part.
536
1311000
3000
和你所处群体的关系。
21:54
Work: engaging in activities
537
1314000
3000
工作：就是投入到
21:57
that are meaningful and satisfying.
538
1317000
3000
有意义和令你感到满足的活动中去。
22:00
If you have that, good close relations with other people,
539
1320000
3000
如果你拥有了亲和的关系，
22:03
work that's meaningful and fulfilling,
540
1323000
3000
工作富有意义，
22:06
you don't much need anything else.
541
1326000
3000
你其实已经不再需要多少其他东西。
22:09
Well, to love well and to work well,
542
1329000
3000
然而，要能做到好好爱，好好工作，
22:12
you need wisdom.
543
1332000
2000
你需要智慧。
22:14
Rules and incentives don't tell you
544
1334000
2000
规则和奖励机制不会告诉你
22:16
how to be a good friend, how to be a good parent,
545
1336000
3000
怎样成为一个好朋友，怎样成为好的家长，
22:19
how to be a good spouse,
546
1339000
2000
怎样成为一个好的配偶，
22:21
or how to be a good doctor or a good lawyer
547
1341000
2000
怎样成为一个好的医生，好的律师，
22:23
or a good teacher.
548
1343000
2000
好的老师。
22:25
Rules and incentives
549
1345000
2000
规则和奖励
22:27
are no substitutes for wisdom.
550
1347000
2000
绝对不是智慧的替代品。
22:29
Indeed, we argue,
551
1349000
2000
事实上，我们的观点是：
22:31
there is no substitute for wisdom.
552
1351000
3000
智慧没有替代品。
22:34
And so practical wisdom
553
1354000
2000
因此实用智慧
22:36
does not require
554
1356000
2000
不需要
22:38
heroic acts of self-sacrifice
555
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3000
实践者做出
22:41
on the part of practitioners.
556
1361000
3000
自我牺牲的英雄壮举。
22:44
In giving us the will and the skill
557
1364000
2000
实用智慧不仅赋予我们愿望和技巧
22:46
to do the right thing -- to do right by others --
558
1366000
3000
去做正确的事情——让他人做正确的事情——
22:49
practical wisdom also gives us
559
1369000
2000
也赋予了我们
22:51
the will and the skill
560
1371000
2000
愿望和技巧
22:53
to do right by ourselves.
561
1373000
3000
来自己做正确的事情。
22:56
Thanks.
562
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谢谢。
22:58
(Applause)
563
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(掌声)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Barry Schwartz - PsychologistBarry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom.
Why you should listen
In his 2004 book The Paradox of Choice, Barry Schwartz tackles one of the great mysteries of modern life: Why is it that societies of great abundance — where individuals are offered more freedom and choice (personal, professional, material) than ever before — are now witnessing a near-epidemic of depression? Conventional wisdom tells us that greater choice is for the greater good, but Schwartz argues the opposite: He makes a compelling case that the abundance of choice in today's western world is actually making us miserable.
Infinite choice is paralyzing, Schwartz argues, and exhausting to the human psyche. It leads us to set unreasonably high expectations, question our choices before we even make them and blame our failures entirely on ourselves. His relatable examples, from consumer products (jeans, TVs, salad dressings) to lifestyle choices (where to live, what job to take, who and when to marry), underscore this central point: Too much choice undermines happiness.
Schwartz's previous research has addressed morality, decision-making and the varied inter-relationships between science and society. Before Paradox he published The Costs of Living, which traces the impact of free-market thinking on the explosion of consumerism -- and the effect of the new capitalism on social and cultural institutions that once operated above the market, such as medicine, sports, and the law.
Both books level serious criticism of modern western society, illuminating the under-reported psychological plagues of our time. But they also offer concrete ideas on addressing the problems, from a personal and societal level.
Schwartz is the author of the TED Book, Why We Work.
Barry Schwartz | Speaker | TED.com