TED@NYC
Joy Sun: Should you donate differently?
孫久瑩: 我們該換個方式捐款嗎？
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科技讓我們能直接捐款給世界上最窮的人。但我們該這麼做嗎？在這則發人省思的演說中，資歷豐富的救援人員孫久瑩深入探討兩種幫助窮人的方式。
Joy Sun - Veteran aid worker
TED Fellow Joy Sun helped to launch a rare type of charity. GiveDirectly lets donors transfer money directly into the hands of impoverished people — empowering them to set their own goals and priorities. Full bio
TED Fellow Joy Sun helped to launch a rare type of charity. GiveDirectly lets donors transfer money directly into the hands of impoverished people — empowering them to set their own goals and priorities. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I suspect that
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我懷疑
00:14
every aid worker in Africa
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每位在非洲的救援人員
00:16
comes to a time in her career
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職業生涯中都會有段時間
00:17
when she wants to take all
the money for her project —
the money for her project —
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想把所有計畫的經費，
00:20
maybe it's a school or a training program —
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也許是支付學校或訓練的費用，
00:24
pack it in a suitcase,
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全都放進皮箱裡，
00:25
get on a plane flying over the
poorest villages in the country,
poorest villages in the country,
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搭上飛機，飛到全國最窮的村子裡，
00:29
and start throwing that money out the window.
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然後開始把錢丟出窗外。
00:33
Because to a veteran aid worker,
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因為對經驗豐富的救援人員來說，
00:35
the idea of putting cold, hard cash
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把白花花的現金送到
00:38
into the hands of the poorest people on Earth
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地球上最窮的人手上
00:41
doesn't sound crazy,
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聽起來不怎麼瘋狂，
00:42
it sounds really satisfying.
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反而非常大快人心。
00:46
I had that moment right about the 10-year mark,
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我大概在工作滿十年的時候
有這種感覺，
有這種感覺，
00:49
and luckily, that's also when I learned
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幸運的是，我正好在那個時候發現
00:52
that this idea actually exists,
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這種想法真的存在現實生活中，
00:55
and it might be just what the aid system needs.
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而那也許符合救援機構的需求。
00:59
Economists call it an unconditional cash transfer,
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經濟學家稱這種方式為現金移轉
(unconditional cash transfer)。
(unconditional cash transfer)。
01:02
and it's exactly that: It's cash given
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意思是：沒有任何條件就直接提供現金。
01:04
with no strings attached.
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01:06
Governments in developing countries
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發展中國家的政府
01:08
have been doing this for decades,
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做這件事已經幾十年了，
01:10
and it's only now, with more evidence
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直到現在才有更多證據
01:12
and new technology that it's possible
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和新興科技顯示
01:15
to make this a model for delivering aid.
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這種捐助方式可行。
01:20
It's a pretty simple idea, right?
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這是個很簡單的概念，對吧？
01:23
Well, why did I spend a decade doing other stuff
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那為什麼我還花了十年做其他的事
01:27
for the poor?
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來幫助窮人？
01:29
Honestly, I believed that I could do more good
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老實說，我以前相信
我比窮人更擅於管理錢，
01:32
with money for the poor
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01:34
than the poor could do for themselves.
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比他們自己處理得更好。
01:37
I held two assumptions:
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我假設兩件事：
01:38
One, that poor people are poor in part
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第一，窮人之所以窮，
有一部分是因為他們沒有受教育，
01:41
because they're uneducated and
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而且不懂得做出好選擇；
01:43
don't make good choices;
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01:45
two is that we then need people like me
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第二，我們需要像我這樣的人，
01:47
to figure out what they need and get it to them.
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設想他們需要什麼，並提供他們所需。
01:51
It turns out, the evidence says otherwise.
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結果事實證明完全相反。
01:55
In recent years, researchers have been studying
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最近幾年，調查員一直研究
01:58
what happens when we give poor people cash.
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我們給窮人現金之後的發展。
02:02
Dozens of studies show across the board
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許多研究都顯示
02:04
that people use cash transfers
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大家把現金用在
02:07
to improve their own lives.
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改善自己的生活。
02:09
Pregnant women in Uruguay buy better food
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烏拉圭的孕婦會買好一點的食物，
02:12
and give birth to healthier babies.
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生下的嬰兒就會比較健康。
02:14
Sri Lankan men invest in their businesses.
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斯里蘭卡男性則投資在自己的生意上。
02:17
Researchers who studied our work in Kenya
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調查員研究我們在肯亞做的服務，
02:20
found that people invested in a range of assets,
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發現大家投資在各種財產上，
02:23
from livestock to equipment
to home improvements,
to home improvements,
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從家畜、設備到改善家園，
02:27
and they saw increases in income
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而且他們還看見收入的成長，
02:30
from business and farming
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從經商到務農都獲利，
02:32
one year after the cash was sent.
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成效就出現在他們送出錢的一年後。
02:36
None of these studies found that people
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沒有任何研究顯示
02:38
spend more on drinking or smoking
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大家花更多錢去抽煙、喝酒，
02:41
or that people work less.
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也沒有人因此減少工作。
02:43
In fact, they work more.
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事實上，他們做得更多。
02:47
Now, these are all material needs.
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前面談到的都是物質需求。
02:50
In Vietnam, elderly recipients used
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在越南，年長的受助者
把現金拿來買棺材。
02:54
their cash transfers to pay for coffins.
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02:58
As someone who wonders if Maslow got it wrong,
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就像有人懷疑馬斯洛的理論是否錯了，
03:02
I find this choice to prioritize spiritual needs
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我發現這個優先滿足精神需求的選擇
03:07
deeply humbling.
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著實令人感到謙遜。
03:09
I don't know if I would have chosen to give food
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我不知道我會選擇提供食物、
03:11
or equipment or coffins,
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設備還是棺材，
03:15
which begs the question:
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這就回到最關鍵的問題：
03:17
How good are we at allocating resources
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我們有多擅於分配資源
03:20
on behalf of the poor?
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來為窮人爭取利益？
03:22
Are we worth the cost?
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我們值那些錢嗎？
03:25
Again, we can look at empirical evidence
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同樣的，我們可以檢視過去的經驗，
03:27
on what happens when we give people stuff
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看看給窮人我們選擇的東西之後，
03:30
of our choosing.
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發生了什麼事。
03:32
One very telling study looked at a program in India
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有份很有說服力的研究
檢視印度做的計畫顯示
檢視印度做的計畫顯示
03:35
that gives livestock to the so-called ultra-poor,
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給所謂的赤貧者牲畜之後，
03:39
and they found that 30 percent of recipients
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他們發現有 30% 的受助者
03:43
had turned around and sold the
livestock they had been given
livestock they had been given
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情況大幅好轉，並賣出得到的牲畜
03:47
for cash.
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來換取現金。
03:50
The real irony is,
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很諷刺的是，
03:52
for every 100 dollars worth of assets
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價值 100 美元的資產
03:54
this program gave someone,
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透過計畫提供給受助者，
03:56
they spent another 99 dollars to do it.
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他們還要多花 99 美元才能有收穫。
04:01
What if, instead, we use technology to put cash,
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有沒有可能，我們換個方式運用科技捐款，
04:05
whether from aid agencies or from any one of us
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不論是由慈善團體，還是任何捐助人
04:09
directly into a poor person's hands.
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直接捐款到窮人手上。
04:13
Today, three in four Kenyans use mobile money,
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現在有四分之三的肯亞人使用電子錢包，
04:16
which is basically a bank account that can run
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基本上就是能在任何行動電話上
操作的銀行帳戶。
操作的銀行帳戶。
04:19
on any cell phone.
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04:20
A sender can pay a 1.6 percent fee
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捐款人支付 1.6% 的手續費，
04:24
and with the click of a button
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點一下按鈕，
04:26
send money directly to a recipient's account
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就能直接捐款到受助者的帳戶，
不需要透過任何人轉手。
04:29
with no intermediaries.
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04:31
Like the technologies that are disrupting industries
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就像在我們生活中破壞產業的科技一樣，
04:34
in our own lives,
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04:36
payments technology in poor countries
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貧窮國家的付款科技
04:39
could disrupt aid.
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也會瓦解救援。
04:42
It's spreading so quickly that it's possible
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科技傳遞得如此快速，
讓人可以想像用這種方式
04:44
to imagine reaching billions
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幫助世界上的幾十億窮人。
04:47
of the world's poor this way.
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04:49
That's what we've started to do at GiveDirectly.
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那就是我們在「馬上捐」(GiveDirectly)
開始做的事。
開始做的事。
04:52
We're the first organization
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我們是第一個決定直接
將現金移轉給窮人的組織。
將現金移轉給窮人的組織。
04:54
dedicated to providing cash transfers to the poor.
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04:57
We've sent cash to 35,000
people across rural Kenya
people across rural Kenya
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我們送了現金給三萬五千名
住在肯亞和烏干達鄉村的人，
05:01
and Uganda
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05:03
in one-time payments of 1,000 dollars
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一次提供一千美元
05:06
per family.
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給每個家庭。
05:08
So far, we've looked for the poorest people
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至今，我們仍尋找最窮苦的人，
05:11
in the poorest villages, and in this part of the world,
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那些人住在世界這個地區
最窮的村莊裡，
最窮的村莊裡，
05:14
they're the ones living in homes
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他們住的房子
05:15
made of mud and thatch,
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用泥巴和茅草搭成，
05:17
not cement and iron.
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而不是鋼筋水泥。
05:19
So let's say that's your family.
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假設那是你家，
05:21
We show up at your door with an Android phone.
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我們帶著安卓手機出現在你家門口。
05:24
We'll get your name, take your photo
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我們問了你的名字，
幫你還有小屋照張相，
05:26
and a photo of your hut
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05:27
and grab the GPS coordinates.
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然後用衛星定位。
05:30
That night, we send all the data to the cloud,
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當天晚上，我們會把所有資料傳上雲端，
05:32
and each piece gets checked
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每一個案件都由獨立團體審查，
05:34
by an independent team
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05:36
using, for one example, satellite images.
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運用衛星影像等方式。
05:40
Then, we'll come back,
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之後我們會再回來，
05:42
we'll sell you a basic cell phone
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我們會賣你一支簡易手機，
05:44
if you don't have one already,
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如果你本來沒有手機。
05:46
and a few weeks later,
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幾週後，
05:49
we send money to it.
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我們會付錢到那上面。
05:51
Something that five years ago
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五年前，
05:52
would have seemed impossible
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這件事看似天方夜譚，
05:54
we can now do efficiently
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現在，我們可以有效率地執行，
05:57
and free of corruption.
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而且免受貪汙之苦。
05:59
The more cash we give to the poor,
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我們給窮人越多錢，
06:01
and the more evidence we have that it works,
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就有越多的證據顯示這個作法成功，
06:05
the more we have to reconsider
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我們也就越需要重新思考
06:07
everything else we give.
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該提供的是什麼。
06:10
Today, the logic behind aid is too often,
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現在救援背後的念頭經常是
06:13
well, we do at least some good.
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「嗯，至少我們做了點好事。」
06:17
When we're complacent
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當我們沾沾自喜
06:18
with that as our bar,
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認為那是我們的成就，
06:20
when we tell ourselves that giving aid
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當我們告訴自己有援助
06:23
is better than no aid at all,
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總比什麼援助都沒有還好的時候，
06:26
we tend to invest inefficiently,
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我們反而會做效益不大的投資，
06:28
in our own ideas that strike us as innovative,
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抱著我們自認為創新的想法，
06:32
on writing reports,
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像是投資在寫報導，
06:34
on plane tickets and SUVs.
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或是機票和休旅車上。
06:38
What if the logic was,
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要是採用當時的邏輯，
06:40
will we do better than cash given directly?
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我們能做得比直接給錢還好嗎？
06:46
Organizations would have to prove
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組織必須證明
06:47
that they're doing more good for the poor
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他們幫窮人做得更好，
06:49
than the poor can do for themselves.
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更勝於窮人自己動手做。
06:52
Of course, giving cash won't create public goods
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當然，給錢無法創造公共利益，
06:55
like eradicating disease or
building strong institutions,
building strong institutions,
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像是消滅疾病或蓋穩固的建築，
07:00
but it could set a higher bar
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但給錢可以提高目標，
07:03
for how we help individual families
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讓我們幫助每個家庭
07:06
improve their lives.
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改善他們的生活。
07:09
I believe in aid.
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我相信援助。
07:10
I believe most aid is better than just
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我相信大部分的援助都好過於只是
07:13
throwing money out of a plane.
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從飛機上丟錢。
07:15
I am also absolutely certain
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我也確信
07:18
that a lot of aid today
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現在許多援助
07:20
isn't better than giving directly to the poor.
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都不比直接給窮人錢還好。
07:24
I hope that one day, it will be.
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我希望有一天，我們能做得更好。
07:27
Thank you.
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謝謝。
07:29
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Joy Sun - Veteran aid workerTED Fellow Joy Sun helped to launch a rare type of charity. GiveDirectly lets donors transfer money directly into the hands of impoverished people — empowering them to set their own goals and priorities.
Why you should listen
The idea of using mobile technology to put cash directly into the hands of the poorest people on earth doesn’t sound crazy to veteran aid worker Joy Sun — it sounds deeply satisfying. In this talk, she talks about what happens when we use technology to give cash instead of services to the poor.
Joy Sun | Speaker | TED.com