TED2015
Pamela Ronald: The case for engineering our food
帕梅拉·羅納德: 改造我們食物的案例
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帕梅拉·羅納德研究植物抗災性和抗壓性的植物基因。在一次公開演講中，她描述了她用了數十年的時間來研究的水稻，這種水稻可以在長期的洪水中存活。她展示了這種種子基因的升級在20世紀五十年代是如何拯救了夏威夷的木瓜作物的。同時還指出這種方式可能在面臨全球人口增加如何提高我們食物的安全性最行之有效的方法了。
Pamela Ronald - Plant geneticist
Embracing both genetically improved seed and ecologically based farming methods, Pamela Ronald aims to enhance sustainable agriculture. Full bio
Embracing both genetically improved seed and ecologically based farming methods, Pamela Ronald aims to enhance sustainable agriculture. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I am a plant geneticist.
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作為一名植物基因學家
00:15
I study genes that make plants
resistant to disease
resistant to disease
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我研究能使植物抵抗疾病
00:18
and tolerant of stress.
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和抗壓的基因
00:21
In recent years,
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近年來
00:23
millions of people around the world
have come to believe
have come to believe
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很多人認為
00:26
that there's something sinister
about genetic modification.
about genetic modification.
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基因研究出現了大問題
00:30
Today, I am going to provide
a different perspective.
a different perspective.
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今天，我將提出一個不同的觀點
00:36
First, let me introduce my husband, Raoul.
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首先，讓我介紹一下我的丈夫，雷歐
00:38
He's an organic farmer.
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他是一個有機農民
00:41
On his farm, he plants
a variety of different crops.
a variety of different crops.
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在他的田地里，種植著許多不同的農作物
00:45
This is one of the many
ecological farming practices
ecological farming practices
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這是他用來保持作物健康的
00:48
he uses to keep his farm healthy.
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眾多生態農業實踐中的一個
00:51
Imagine some of the reactions we get:
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想象一下，人們對我們的反應
00:54
"Really? An organic farmer
and a plant geneticist?
and a plant geneticist?
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一個有機農名和一個植物基因學家？
00:58
Can you agree on anything?"
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你們能有任何的共識嗎？
01:01
Well, we can, and it's not difficult,
because we have the same goal.
because we have the same goal.
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嗯，我們可以，這並不困難，
因為我們有共同的目標
因為我們有共同的目標
我們想要幫助滋養不斷增長的人口
01:06
We want to help nourish
the growing population
the growing population
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01:09
without further destroying
the environment.
the environment.
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而不用更進一步的破壞環境
01:12
I believe this is the greatest
challenge of our time.
challenge of our time.
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我相信這是我們這個時代的最大的挑戰
01:17
Now, genetic modification is not new;
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如今，基因改造並不是什麼新穎的東西
01:21
virtually everything we eat
has been genetically modified
has been genetically modified
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事實上，我們吃的所有的食物在一定程度上
01:25
in some manner.
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都被基因改造過
01:27
Let me give you a few examples.
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讓我來舉幾個例子
01:30
On the left is an image
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左邊的圖片是
01:32
of the ancient ancestor of modern corn.
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現代玉米的原始祖先
01:37
You see a single roll of grain
that's covered in a hard case.
that's covered in a hard case.
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可以看到，由一排硬殼包著的玉米粒
01:41
Unless you have a hammer,
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除非你有一把錘子
01:43
teosinte isn't good for making tortillas.
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不然，蜀黍並不適合用來做玉米餅
01:48
Now, take a look at
the ancient ancestor of banana.
the ancient ancestor of banana.
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現在來看香蕉的古老祖先
01:53
You can see the large seeds.
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你可以看到非常大的籽
01:55
And unappetizing brussel sprouts,
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一點也引不起食慾的甘藍
01:58
and eggplant, so beautiful.
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還有茄子，很漂亮
02:02
Now, to create these varieties,
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為了創造這些品種
02:04
breeders have used many different
genetic techniques over the years.
genetic techniques over the years.
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多年來培育專家們用了很多種不同的基因技術
02:07
Some of them are quite creative,
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其中的一些很有創造性
02:09
like mixing two different species together
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例如，用嫁接的程序
02:11
using a process called grafting
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將兩種不同的品種結合在一起
02:13
to create this variety
that's half tomato and half potato.
that's half tomato and half potato.
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創造出了這個一半是番茄，
一半是馬鈴薯的品種
一半是馬鈴薯的品種
02:19
Breeders have also used
other types of genetic techniques,
other types of genetic techniques,
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培育專家們也使用了其他的基因技術
02:24
such as random mutagenesis,
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例如隨機突變
02:26
which induces uncharacterized mutations
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這種隨機突變能讓植物內部變生
02:29
into the plants.
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非典型的突變基因
02:31
The rice in the cereal
that many of us fed our babies
that many of us fed our babies
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我們所用來餵養嬰兒的米糊
02:36
was developed using this approach.
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就是用這種方法發展來的
02:39
Now, today, breeders have
even more options to choose from.
even more options to choose from.
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如今，培育專家們甚至有更多的選擇
02:43
Some of them are extraordinarily precise.
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其中的很多是非常精確的
02:47
I want to give you a couple examples
from my own work.
from my own work.
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我想舉幾個我工作中的例子
02:51
I work on rice, which is a staple food
for more than half the world's people.
for more than half the world's people.
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我研究大米，這是全世界過半人口的主糧
02:57
Each year, 40 percent
of the potential harvest
of the potential harvest
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每年，百分之四十的飢餓
03:00
is lost to pest and disease.
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都由於病蟲害造成的
03:03
For this reason,
farmers plant rice varieties
farmers plant rice varieties
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為此，農民們種植
03:06
that carry genes for resistance.
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帶有耐抗性基因的水稻品種
03:09
This approach has been used
for nearly 100 years.
for nearly 100 years.
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這種方法已經使用了將近100年
03:12
Yet, when I started graduate school,
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然而，當我在讀研究生的時候
03:15
no one knew what these genes were.
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還沒有人知道這些基因是什麼
03:18
It wasn't until the 1990s
that scientists finally uncovered
that scientists finally uncovered
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科學家們最終於九十年代解開了
03:23
the genetic basis of resistance.
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耐抗性基因的基礎
03:26
In my laboratory, we isolated a gene
for immunity to a very serious
for immunity to a very serious
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在我的實驗室中，
我們將在亞洲和非洲非常嚴重的
我們將在亞洲和非洲非常嚴重的
03:31
bacterial disease in Asia and Africa.
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細菌疾病的免疫基因分離了出來
03:33
We found we could engineer the gene
into a conventional rice variety
into a conventional rice variety
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我們發現，我們可以將這種基因移植到
03:39
that's normally susceptible,
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易染病的傳統水稻品種上
03:41
and you can see the two leaves
on the bottom here
on the bottom here
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你可以看到底部的兩個葉子
03:43
are highly resistant to infection.
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很好的抵抗了感染
03:46
Now, the same month
that my laboratory published
that my laboratory published
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在同一個月裡我們實驗室發佈了
03:49
our discovery on the rice immunity gene,
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我們對於水稻免疫基因的發現
03:52
my friend and colleague Dave Mackill
stopped by my office.
stopped by my office.
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我的朋友兼同事Dave Mackill來到我的辦公室
03:56
He said, "Seventy million rice farmers
are having trouble growing rice."
are having trouble growing rice."
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他說：”七千萬的米農在種植水稻上遇到困難“
04:04
That's because their fields are flooded,
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因為他們的田地會有洪水侵襲
04:07
and these rice farmers are living
on less than two dollars a day.
on less than two dollars a day.
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這些稻農每天的收入低於2美元
04:12
Although rice grows well
in standing water,
in standing water,
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雖然水稻需要一定的水才能生長
04:15
most rice varieties will die
if they're submerged
if they're submerged
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但是，如果浸入水中超過三天的時間
04:18
for more than three days.
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水稻也會死亡
04:20
Flooding is expected
to be increasingly problematic
to be increasingly problematic
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隨著氣候的改變
04:24
as the climate changes.
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洪災被認為是越來越嚴重的問題
04:27
He told me that his graduate student
Kenong Xu and himself
Kenong Xu and himself
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他告訴我他和他的研究生 Kenong Xu
04:31
were studying an ancient variety of rice
that had an amazing property.
that had an amazing property.
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正在研究一種古老的優良性能的水稻品種
04:36
It could withstand two weeks
of complete submergence.
of complete submergence.
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這種水稻能夠在被淹沒的環境下生存兩周
04:42
He asked if I would be willing
to help them isolate this gene.
to help them isolate this gene.
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談詢問我是否願意幫他們分離這種基因
04:47
I said yes -- I was very excited,
because I knew if we were successful,
because I knew if we were successful,
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我說可以，我很激動，因為我知道如果成功了
04:51
we could potentially help
millions of farmers grow rice
millions of farmers grow rice
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我們就有可能幫助上百萬的農民種植水稻
04:55
even when their fields were flooded.
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即使當他們的田地被水淹沒
04:59
Kenong spent 10 years
looking for this gene.
looking for this gene.
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Kenong 花費了十年的時間尋找這種基因
05:03
Then one day, he said,
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有一天，他說
05:05
"Come look at this experiment.
You've got to see it."
You've got to see it."
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“過來看一下這個實驗，一定要來看一下”
05:09
I went to the greenhouse and I saw
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我去了他的溫室看到了
05:10
that the conventional variety
that was flooded for 18 days had died,
that was flooded for 18 days had died,
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被水浸沒了18天的傳統水稻品種已經死了
05:16
but the rice variety that we
had genetically engineered
had genetically engineered
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但經過我們基因改造過的品種活了下來
05:19
with a new gene we had discovered,
called Sub1, was alive.
called Sub1, was alive.
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這一基因是我們剛剛發現的，叫“替代一號”
05:24
Kenong and I were amazed and excited
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Kenong和我既驚訝又興奮
05:26
that a single gene could have
this dramatic effect.
this dramatic effect.
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僅僅一個基因就有這如此巨大的作用
05:30
But this is just a greenhouse experiment.
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但這僅僅是在溫室裡的實驗
05:34
Would this work in the field?
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這一成果在稻田裡能實現么
05:37
Now, I'm going to show you
a four-month time lapse video
a four-month time lapse video
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現在，我要向你展示一個由國際水稻研究所
05:40
taken at the International
Rice Research Institute.
Rice Research Institute.
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拍攝的長達四個月的視頻
05:43
Breeders there developed
a rice variety carrying the Sub1 gene
a rice variety carrying the Sub1 gene
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培育專家們用另一種叫做“精密培育”的技術
05:48
using another genetic technique
called precision breeding.
called precision breeding.
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培育了攜帶“替代一號"基因的水稻品種
05:52
On the left, you can see the Sub1 variety,
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左邊的是攜帶”替代一號“品種的水稻
05:54
and on the right
is the conventional variety.
is the conventional variety.
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右邊的是傳統的水稻品種
05:58
Both varieties do very well at first,
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一開始的時候兩個品種表現的相當好
06:00
but then the field is flooded for 17 days.
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然而，在農田被水浸沒17天之後
06:04
You can see the Sub1 variety does great.
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你可以看到”替代一號“表現的非常好
06:07
In fact, it produces
three and a half times more grain
three and a half times more grain
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事實上，它的產量
06:12
than the conventional variety.
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是傳統品種的3.5倍
06:15
I love this video
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我喜歡這個視頻
06:17
because it shows the power
of plant genetics to help farmers.
of plant genetics to help farmers.
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因為它體現出了植物基因技術的強大
06:21
Last year, with the help
of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,
of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,
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去年，在比爾和梅琳達·蓋茨基金會的幫助下
06:25
three and a half million farmers
grew Sub1 rice.
grew Sub1 rice.
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三百五十萬的農民種植”替代一號“
06:29
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
06:33
Thank you.
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謝謝
06:37
Now, many people don't mind
genetic modification
genetic modification
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現在，很多人不介意基因改造
06:41
when it comes to moving rice genes around,
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當在水稻上轉移基因
06:44
rice genes in rice plants,
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把水稻的基因改造于水稻上
06:45
or even when it comes
to mixing species together
to mixing species together
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或者甚至是通過移植或是隨機突變的方法
把它和其他的水稻品種結合起來
把它和其他的水稻品種結合起來
06:48
through grafting or random mutagenesis.
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都不會遭到反對
06:53
But when it comes to taking genes
from viruses and bacteria
from viruses and bacteria
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但是，當我們把病毒或是細菌的基因提取出來
06:58
and putting them into plants,
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放到其他的植物上
07:00
a lot of people say, "Yuck."
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很多人就會說：”不行”
07:03
Why would you do that?
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為何要如此呢？
07:05
The reason is that sometimes
it's the cheapest, safest,
it's the cheapest, safest,
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原因就是有時候這就是提高食品安全
和發展可持續農業的
和發展可持續農業的
07:08
and most effective technology
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最安全，最廉價
07:11
for enhancing food security
and advancing sustainable agriculture.
and advancing sustainable agriculture.
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同時也是最高效的技術
07:16
I'm going to give you three examples.
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我來舉三個例子
07:19
First, take a look at papaya.
It's delicious, right?
It's delicious, right?
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首先，看一下這個木瓜，很美味，對嗎？
07:22
But now, look at this papaya.
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再來看這一個
07:25
This papaya is infected
with papaya ringspot virus.
with papaya ringspot virus.
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被感染了木瓜環斑病毒
07:29
In the 1950s, this virus
nearly wiped out the entire production
nearly wiped out the entire production
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在上世紀50年代，這一病毒幾乎毀壞了
07:35
of papaya on the island of Oahu in Hawaii.
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夏威夷瓦胡島上的全部木瓜產量
07:41
Many people thought
that the Hawaiian papaya was doomed,
that the Hawaiian papaya was doomed,
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很多人認為厄運降臨了夏威夷的木瓜
07:45
but then, a local Hawaiian,
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然而，一個當地的夏威夷人
07:48
a plant pathologist
named Dennis Gonsalves,
named Dennis Gonsalves,
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一個叫做丹尼斯·貢薩爾維斯的植物病理學家
07:51
decided to try to fight this disease
using genetic engineering.
using genetic engineering.
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決定嘗試用基因工程技術來對抗這種疾病
07:55
He took a snippet of viral DNA
and he inserted it
and he inserted it
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他提取了病毒DNA的一個片段
07:59
into the papaya genome.
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並將其植入到了木瓜的基因組中
08:01
This is kind of like a human
getting a vaccination.
getting a vaccination.
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這有點像人類接種育苗
08:04
Now, take a look at his field trial.
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現在，看一下他的試驗田
08:07
You can see the genetically
engineered papaya in the center.
engineered papaya in the center.
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你能看到中間的是被基因改造過的木瓜
08:10
It's immune to infection.
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對於病毒的免疫相當好
08:13
The conventional papaya around the outside
is severely infected with the virus.
is severely infected with the virus.
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外圍的是傳統的木瓜，
被感染的很嚴重
被感染的很嚴重
08:18
Dennis' pioneering work is credited
with rescuing the papaya industry.
with rescuing the papaya industry.
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丹尼斯先驅性的工作
拯救了木瓜產業，其飽受讚揚
拯救了木瓜產業，其飽受讚揚
08:25
Today, 20 years later, there's still no
other method to control this disease.
other method to control this disease.
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二十年後的今天，
仍沒有找到控制這種疾病的其它方法
仍沒有找到控制這種疾病的其它方法
08:30
There's no organic method.
There's no conventional method.
There's no conventional method.
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沒有有機的方法，沒有傳統的方法，
統統沒有
統統沒有
08:33
Eighty percent of Hawaiian papaya
is genetically engineered.
is genetically engineered.
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夏威夷百分之八十的木瓜都被基因改造過
08:37
Now, some of you may still feel a little
queasy about viral genes in your food,
queasy about viral genes in your food,
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現在，有些人可能
仍然對你們的食品中的病毒基因感到不安
仍然對你們的食品中的病毒基因感到不安
08:42
but consider this:
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但是請想一想
08:44
The genetically engineered papaya
carries just a trace amount of the virus.
carries just a trace amount of the virus.
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這一被基因改造過的木瓜
僅僅是攜帶了病毒的一小部分
僅僅是攜帶了病毒的一小部分
08:51
If you bite into an organic
or conventional papaya
or conventional papaya
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但是如果你咬了一口被病毒感染了的
08:54
that is infected with the virus,
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有機傳統木瓜的話
08:57
you will be chewing on tenfold
more viral protein.
more viral protein.
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你會嚼著多於十倍的病毒蛋白質
09:02
Now, take a look at this pest
feasting on an eggplant.
feasting on an eggplant.
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現在來看一下這隻正在吃著茄子的害蟲
09:06
The brown you see is frass,
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你所看到的棕色的東西
09:08
what comes out
the back end of the insect.
the back end of the insect.
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是從蟲體內排出的蟲糞
09:12
To control this serious pest,
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為了控制這種嚴重的害蟲
09:15
which can devastate the entire
eggplant crop in Bangladesh,
eggplant crop in Bangladesh,
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這種害蟲能夠吃掉整個孟加拉國的茄子
09:20
Bangladeshi farmers spray insecticides
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孟加拉國的農民每週
09:24
two to three times a week,
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碰撒兩到三次的農藥
09:27
sometimes twice a day,
when pest pressure is high.
when pest pressure is high.
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當蟲災嚴重時，要一天噴灑兩次
09:32
But we know that some insecticides
are very harmful to human health,
are very harmful to human health,
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但是我們知道有些殺蟲劑對人體危害很大
09:36
especially when farmers and their families
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尤其是對於一些難以支付合適的防護措施
09:40
cannot afford proper protection,
like these children.
like these children.
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的農民及他們的家庭，就像這些孩子
09:44
In less developed countries,
it's estimated that 300,000 people
it's estimated that 300,000 people
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在少些發達國家
09:49
die every year because of
insecticide misuse and exposure.
insecticide misuse and exposure.
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據估計，每年有三十萬的人口
死於殺蟲劑的濫用和暴露
死於殺蟲劑的濫用和暴露
09:55
Cornell and Bangladeshi scientists
decided to fight this disease
decided to fight this disease
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康奈爾和孟加拉國的科學家決定使用
09:59
using a genetic technique that builds
on an organic farming approach.
on an organic farming approach.
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一種建立在有機農業上的基因技術
來對抗這一疾病
來對抗這一疾病
10:04
Organic farmers like my husband Raoul
spray an insecticide called B.T.,
spray an insecticide called B.T.,
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像我丈夫雷歐這樣的有機農民
噴灑一種叫做B.T的殺蟲劑
噴灑一種叫做B.T的殺蟲劑
10:09
which is based on a bacteria.
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這種殺蟲劑的基礎是細菌
10:12
This pesticide is very specific
to caterpillar pests,
to caterpillar pests,
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這種殺蟲劑對於毛蟲來說相當特別
10:18
and in fact, it's nontoxic
to humans, fish and birds.
to humans, fish and birds.
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而事實上，它對於人類，
魚類及鳥類並無毒性
魚類及鳥類並無毒性
10:21
It's less toxic than table salt.
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比平常食用的鹽的毒性還小
10:24
But this approach
does not work well in Bangladesh.
does not work well in Bangladesh.
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但是這種方法在孟加拉國並不怎麼奏效
10:27
That's because these insecticide sprays
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因為這種殺蟲劑的噴灑裝置
10:29
are difficult to find, they're expensive,
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很難得到且價格昂貴
10:31
and they don't prevent the insect
from getting inside the plants.
from getting inside the plants.
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同時，它並不阻止蟲子進入到植物體內
10:36
In the genetic approach, scientists
cut the gene out of the bacteria
cut the gene out of the bacteria
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在所用的基因方法里，
科學家們將細菌的一小部分基因切除出來
科學家們將細菌的一小部分基因切除出來
10:39
and insert it directly into
the eggplant genome.
the eggplant genome.
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並將其植入到茄子的基因組中
10:42
Will this work to reduce
insecticide sprays in Bangladesh?
insecticide sprays in Bangladesh?
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這種方法能減少孟加拉國殺蟲劑的噴灑嗎？
10:46
Definitely.
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答案是顯而易見的
10:47
Last season, farmers reported they were
able to reduce their insecticide use
able to reduce their insecticide use
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上一個季節，農民們反映他們已經可以大幅度減少
10:52
by a huge amount, almost down to zero.
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殺蟲劑的使用，幾乎無需使用
10:56
They're able to harvest
and replant for the next season.
and replant for the next season.
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他們能夠豐收且下一個季節繼續種植
11:00
Now, I've given you a couple examples
of how genetic engineering can be used
of how genetic engineering can be used
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現在，我給了幾個基因工程技術的例子
11:04
to fight pests and disease
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關於對抗蟲災和疾病
11:06
and to reduce the amount of insecticides.
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同時減少殺蟲劑的使用量
11:09
My final example is an example
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我最後的一個例子
11:12
where genetic engineering
can be used to reduce malnutrition.
can be used to reduce malnutrition.
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是基因工程在哪些地方
可以用來減少營養不良
可以用來減少營養不良
11:18
In less developed countries,
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在未發達國家
11:20
500,000 children go blind every year
because of lack of Vitamin A.
because of lack of Vitamin A.
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每年有五十萬兒童由於缺少維他命A而致盲
11:25
More than half will die.
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他們中過於半數會死亡
11:28
For this reason, scientists supported
by the Rockefeller Foundation
by the Rockefeller Foundation
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正因此，科學家門在洛克菲勒基金會的幫助下
11:31
genetically engineered a golden rice
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基因重組了一種能夠產生β-胡蘿蔔素的黃金大米
11:34
to produce beta-carotene,
which is the precursor of Vitamin A.
which is the precursor of Vitamin A.
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而β-胡蘿蔔素正是維他命A的的前體
11:39
This is the same pigment
that we find in carrots.
that we find in carrots.
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這同我們在蘿蔔里找到的色素相同
11:42
Researchers estimate that just one cup
of golden rice per day
of golden rice per day
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研究人員估計每天僅需一小杯黃金大米
11:47
will save the lives
of thousands of children.
of thousands of children.
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就可以拯救數以千計的兒童
11:51
But golden rice is virulently opposed
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但是黃金大米卻
11:53
by activists who are
against genetic modification.
against genetic modification.
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被反轉基因人士極力反對
11:56
Just last year,
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去年
11:58
activists invaded and destroyed
a field trial in the Philippines.
a field trial in the Philippines.
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反基因人士入侵
並摧毀了一個位於菲律賓的試驗田
並摧毀了一個位於菲律賓的試驗田
12:02
When I heard about the destruction,
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當我聽說這個消息後
12:05
I wondered if they knew that they
were destroying much more
were destroying much more
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我在想，他們是否知道
12:09
than a scientific research project,
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他們摧毀的不僅僅是一個科學研究項目
12:11
that they were destroying medicines
that children desperately needed
that children desperately needed
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他們所摧毀的是兒童們所急需的
12:14
to save their sight and their lives.
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能夠拯救他們視力及生命的東西
12:17
Some of my friends and family still worry:
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我的一些家人及朋友仍然擔心
12:20
How do you know genes
in the food are safe to eat?
in the food are safe to eat?
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你怎麼知道食品裡的基因是足夠安全的？
12:23
I explained the genetic engineering,
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我向他們解釋了基因工程
12:25
the process of moving
genes between species,
genes between species,
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這種在物種間移植基因的方法
12:28
has been used for more than 40 years
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已經在酒中，藥物中，植物中，在奶酪中
12:30
in wines, in medicine,
in plants, in cheeses.
in plants, in cheeses.
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使用了超過四十年
12:35
In all that time, there hasn't been
a single case of harm
a single case of harm
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長時間以來，沒有一個對人體及環境
12:38
to human health or the environment.
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造成危害的例子
12:42
But I say, look, I'm not
asking you to believe me.
asking you to believe me.
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我說，我並不是要就你去相信我
12:44
Science is not a belief system.
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科學並不是一個相信的機制
12:48
My opinion doesn't matter.
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我的觀點無關緊要
12:50
Let's look at the evidence.
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重要的是證據
12:53
After 20 years of careful study
and rigorous peer review
and rigorous peer review
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經過了二十年數以千計的獨立科學家們
12:57
by thousands of independent scientists,
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謹慎的研究和嚴格的同業互查
13:00
every major scientific organization
in the world has concluded
in the world has concluded
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世界上每一個主要的科研機構已經認為
13:04
that the crops currently
on the market are safe to eat
on the market are safe to eat
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市場上所有的食物都是安全可食用的
13:07
and that the process
of genetic engineering
of genetic engineering
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而且這樣的轉基因技術
13:10
is no more risky than older methods
of genetic modification.
of genetic modification.
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並不比傳統的基因改造方法有更大的危險性
13:14
These are precisely the same
organizations that most of us trust
organizations that most of us trust
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這些機構都是我們所在很多科學問題上
13:18
when it comes to other
important scientific issues
important scientific issues
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都信任的科學機構
13:21
such as global climate change
or the safety of vaccines.
or the safety of vaccines.
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例如全球變暖以及疫苗問題
13:27
Raoul and I believe that, instead of
worrying about the genes in our food,
worrying about the genes in our food,
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雷歐和我都相信，
與其關注我們所食用的轉基因食品安全問題
與其關注我們所食用的轉基因食品安全問題
13:31
we must focus on how we can help
children grow up healthy.
children grow up healthy.
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我們更應該關注如何幫助我們的孩子健康成長
13:35
We must ask if farmers
in rural communities can thrive,
in rural communities can thrive,
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我們必須問一問農村的農民是否能夠營生
13:38
and if everyone can afford the food.
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每個人是否都能夠買得起食物
13:40
We must try to minimize
environmental degradation.
environmental degradation.
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我們必須盡力對環境的損害做到最小化
13:44
What scares me most about
the loud arguments and misinformation
the loud arguments and misinformation
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關於轉基因的激烈爭論和錯誤信息中
13:48
about plant genetics
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最令我害怕的是
13:49
is that the poorest people
who most need the technology
who most need the technology
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由於一些足夠吃飽飯的人
13:52
may be denied access because of
the vague fears and prejudices
the vague fears and prejudices
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他們的不明確的擔心與偏見
13:56
of those who have enough to eat.
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造成一些急需此技術改善生活的窮苦人們失去食物
13:59
We have a huge challenge in front of us.
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我們面臨著嚴峻的挑戰
14:02
Let's celebrate scientific
innovation and use it.
innovation and use it.
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我們慶幸科學的創新之舉並付諸於實踐
14:06
It's our responsibility
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這是我們的責任
14:08
to do everything we can to help
alleviate human suffering
alleviate human suffering
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是我們盡一切可能幫助減輕人們的痛苦
14:11
and safeguard the environment.
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以及維護我們的環境的責任
14:13
Thank you.
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謝謝
14:15
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
14:17
Thank you.
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謝謝
14:20
Chris Anderson: Powerfully argued.
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克里斯·安德森：強有力的論證！
14:22
The people who argue against GMOs,
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反對轉基因的人們，
14:24
as I understand it, the core piece
comes from two things.
comes from two things.
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就我所理解的，主要的批評來自於兩點
14:28
One, complexity and
unintended consequence.
unintended consequence.
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一點是複雜性和不可預測的結果
14:31
Nature is this incredibly complex machine.
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自然是一個極其複雜的機器
14:33
If we put out these brand new genes
that we've created,
that we've created,
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如果我們拿出這些新創造出來的
14:35
that haven't been challenged
by years of evolution,
by years of evolution,
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未經自然長時間演化論證的基因
14:38
and they started mixing up
with the rest of what's going on,
with the rest of what's going on,
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讓他們和現有的基因混合起來
14:41
couldn't that trigger some kind
of cataclysm or problem,
of cataclysm or problem,
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這會引發一些激變或是問題嗎？
14:44
especially when you add in
the commercial incentive
the commercial incentive
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尤其是當你添加進一些商業因素在裡面
14:47
that some companies have
to put them out there?
to put them out there?
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這些公司已經將推出了這些基因
14:50
The fear is that those incentives
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擔心的是這些商業動機
14:52
mean that the decision is not made
on purely scientific grounds,
on purely scientific grounds,
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那就意味著這些結論並不是純科學環境下做出來的
14:56
and even if it was, that there would be
unintended consequences.
unintended consequences.
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就算是，這裡面會出現一些不可測結果嗎？
14:59
How do we know that there isn't
a big risk of some unintended consequence?
a big risk of some unintended consequence?
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我們怎麼知道這些不可測結果是不是風險太大
15:03
Often our tinkerings with nature
do lead to big, unintended consequences
do lead to big, unintended consequences
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往往，我們對於大自然的小小的變動
就是出現巨大不可測的結果
就是出現巨大不可測的結果
15:07
and chain reactions.
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以及一些連鎖反應
15:08
Pamela Ronald: Okay,
so on the commercial aspects,
so on the commercial aspects,
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帕梅拉·羅納德：好的，在商業環境下
15:11
one thing that's really important
to understand is that,
to understand is that,
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有一點值得理解的是
15:14
in the developed world,
farmers in the United States,
farmers in the United States,
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在發達國家，美國的農民
15:16
almost all farmers, whether
they're organic or conventional,
they're organic or conventional,
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幾乎所有的農民，
不論是有機農民還是傳統農民
不論是有機農民還是傳統農民
15:19
they buy seed produced by seed companies.
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他們從種子公司購買種子
15:21
So there's definitely a commercial
interest to sell a lot of seed,
interest to sell a lot of seed,
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售賣種子當然有很大的商業利益
15:24
but hopefully they're selling seed
that the farmers want to buy.
that the farmers want to buy.
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但是希望他們賣的是農民們所想要購買的
15:27
It's different in the
less developed world.
less developed world.
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在未發達國家就不同了
15:30
Farmers there cannot afford the seed.
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農民們買不起種子
15:32
These seeds are not being sold.
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這些種子不是買來的
15:33
These seeds are being distributed freely
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而是通過傳統的有資格的單位
15:36
through traditional kinds
of certification groups,
of certification groups,
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免費分發得來的
15:41
so it is very important
in less developed countries
in less developed countries
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因此，在未發達國家
15:43
that the seed be freely available.
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由於種子可以免費得到，
這一點就變得尤其重要
這一點就變得尤其重要
15:45
CA: Wouldn't some activists say that this
is actually part of the conspiracy?
is actually part of the conspiracy?
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克里斯·安德森：
會不會有一些反轉基因人士認為這是陰謀呢？
會不會有一些反轉基因人士認為這是陰謀呢？
15:49
This is the heroin strategy.
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這是海洛因策略
15:50
You seed the stuff,
and people have no choice
and people have no choice
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種植這些東西沒有別的選擇
15:52
but to be hooked on these seeds forever?
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而因此受制於永遠使用這些種子
15:54
PR: There are a lot of conspiracy theories
for sure, but it doesn't work that way.
for sure, but it doesn't work that way.
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帕梅拉·羅納德：
當然會存在很多陰謀論，但這是行不通的
當然會存在很多陰謀論，但這是行不通的
16:00
For example, the seed that's being
distributed, the flood-tolerant rice,
distributed, the flood-tolerant rice,
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例如，免費分發的種子，抗水災性水稻
16:04
this is distributed freely
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是通過印度和孟加拉國的官方部門
16:05
through Indian and Bangladeshi
seed certification agencies,
seed certification agencies,
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免費分發的
16:10
so there's no commercial interest at all.
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所以不存在一點的商業利益
16:12
The golden rice was developed through
support of the Rockefeller Foundation.
support of the Rockefeller Foundation.
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黃金水稻是在洛克菲勒基金會的支持下發展來的
16:16
Again, it's being freely distributed.
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同樣，免費分發的
16:18
There are no commercial profits
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在這種情況下
16:20
in this situation.
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也不存在商業利益
16:22
And now to address your other question
about, well, mixing genes,
about, well, mixing genes,
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現在來討論一下關於其他問題，嗯，關於基因混合
16:25
aren't there some unintended consequences?
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會有什麼不可預測的結果嗎？
16:28
Absolutely -- every time
we do something different,
we do something different,
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當然，每次當我們嘗試一些不同的東西的時候
16:31
there's an unintended consequence,
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都會有一些不可預測的結果
16:32
but one of the points I was trying to make
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但有一點我想說的是
16:34
is that we've been doing
kind of crazy things to our plants,
kind of crazy things to our plants,
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我們已經在植物上做了很多我們認為瘋狂的事情
16:38
mutagenesis using radiation
or chemical mutagenesis.
or chemical mutagenesis.
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用輻射或者是化學誘變的方法讓基因差生變異
16:42
This induces thousands
of uncharacterized mutations,
of uncharacterized mutations,
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這包括上千種不確定的突變
16:46
and this is even a higher risk
of unintended consequence
of unintended consequence
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而這相比於現代方法
16:50
than many of the modern methods.
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有著甚至更高的不確定性風險
16:51
And so it's really important
not to use the term GMO
not to use the term GMO
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所以，不要使用GMO這個詞
16:55
because it's scientifically meaningless.
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因為這在科學上是沒有意義的
16:57
I feel it's very important to talk
about a specific crop
about a specific crop
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我認為討論關於特定的農作物、
特定的產品
特定的產品
17:02
and a specific product, and think about
the needs of the consumer.
the needs of the consumer.
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並且想想我們消費者的需要
17:05
CA: So part of what's happening here
is that there's a mental model
is that there's a mental model
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克里斯·安德森：很多人有一種特定的思維模式
17:08
in a lot of people that nature is nature,
and it's pure and pristine,
and it's pure and pristine,
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認為自然的東西就是天然的，它純淨且質樸
17:12
and to tinker with it is Frankensteinian.
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對它做修改無異於作法自斃
17:14
It's making something that's pure
dangerous in some way,
dangerous in some way,
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這種想法在一定程度上比較危險
17:18
and I think you're saying
that that whole model
that that whole model
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我認為你所說的這整個的思維模式
17:20
just misunderstands how nature is.
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是誤解了什麼是自然
17:22
Nature is a much more chaotic
interplay of genetic changes
interplay of genetic changes
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自然界本身有著更為複雜的基因變換
17:26
that have been happening
all the time anyway.
all the time anyway.
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而這種變換時時刻刻都在發生著
17:28
PR: That's absolutely true, and there's
no such thing as pure food.
no such thing as pure food.
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帕梅拉·羅納德：
這絕對是正確的，並不存在什麼純正無比的食物
這絕對是正確的，並不存在什麼純正無比的食物
17:32
I mean, you could not spray
eggplant with insecticides
eggplant with insecticides
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我的意思是，你可以不對茄子噴灑殺蟲劑
17:35
or not genetically engineer it,
but then you'd be stuck eating frass.
but then you'd be stuck eating frass.
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或者是不對其進行基因改造，
那麼對不起，你得吃蟲糞了
那麼對不起，你得吃蟲糞了
17:39
So there's no purity there.
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因此，並沒什麼純粹的東西
17:41
CA: Pam Ronald, thank you.
That was powerfully argued.
That was powerfully argued.
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克里斯·安德森：謝謝，帕梅拉·羅納德，
這是一次精彩的演講
這是一次精彩的演講
17:43
PR: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
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帕梅拉·羅納德：謝謝，非常感謝！
17:45
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Pamela Ronald - Plant geneticistEmbracing both genetically improved seed and ecologically based farming methods, Pamela Ronald aims to enhance sustainable agriculture.
Why you should listen
As a proponent of sustainable agriculture using the most appropriate technologies, UC Davis researcher Pamela Ronald’s holistic vision startles some. But the success of her genetic tinkering is uncontroversial: it shows that genetic improvement is a critical component of feeding the world without further destroying the environment.
Her book Tomorrow’s Table (co-authored with organic farmer Raoul Adamchak) argues that to advance sustainable agriculture, we must not focus on how a seed variety was developed. Instead we must ask what technology most enhances local food security and can provide safe, abundant and nutritious food to consumers.
Pamela Ronald | Speaker | TED.com