TEDGlobal 2014
Andrés Ruzo: The boiling river of the Amazon
Filmed:
Readability: 4
2,147,830 views
When Andrés Ruzo was a young boy in Peru, his grandfather told him a story with an odd detail: There is a river, deep in the Amazon, which boils as if a fire burns below it. Twelve years later, after training as a geoscientist, he set out on a journey deep into the jungle of South America in search of this boiling river. At a time when everything seems mapped and measured, join Ruzo as he explores a river that forces us to question the line between known and unknown ... and reminds us that there are great wonders yet to be discovered.
Andrés Ruzo - Geoscientist
Andrés Ruzo investigates the Earth's heat and the mystery of a boiling river in the Peruvian rainforest. Full bio
Andrés Ruzo investigates the Earth's heat and the mystery of a boiling river in the Peruvian rainforest. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
As a boy in Lima,
0
1023
1643
00:14
my grandfather told me a legend
1
2690
2111
00:16
of the Spanish conquest of Peru.
2
4825
2254
00:20
Atahualpa, emperor of the Inca,
had been captured and killed.
had been captured and killed.
3
8007
3539
00:23
Pizarro and his conquistadors
had grown rich,
had grown rich,
4
11570
2983
00:26
and tales of their conquest
and glory had reached Spain
and glory had reached Spain
5
14577
3186
00:29
and was bringing new waves of Spaniards,
hungry for gold and glory.
hungry for gold and glory.
6
17787
5375
00:36
They would go into towns and ask the Inca,
7
24055
2898
00:38
"Where's another civilization
we can conquer? Where's more gold?"
we can conquer? Where's more gold?"
8
26977
3775
00:42
And the Inca, out of vengeance, told them,
9
30776
3379
00:46
"Go to the Amazon.
10
34648
1609
00:48
You'll find all the gold you want there.
11
36767
2646
00:51
In fact, there is a city called Paititi --
El Dorado in Spanish --
El Dorado in Spanish --
12
39437
4714
00:56
made entirely of gold."
13
44175
2627
00:59
The Spanish set off into the jungle,
14
47303
1896
01:01
but the few that return
come back with stories,
come back with stories,
15
49223
3562
01:05
stories of powerful shamans,
16
53904
3807
01:09
of warriors with poisoned arrows,
17
57735
2904
01:12
of trees so tall they blotted out the sun,
18
60663
3778
01:16
spiders that ate birds,
snakes that swallowed men whole
snakes that swallowed men whole
19
64465
4752
01:21
and a river that boiled.
20
69241
2284
01:25
All this became a childhood memory.
21
73795
1984
01:27
And years passed.
22
75803
1159
01:28
I'm working on my PhD at SMU,
23
76986
2475
01:31
trying to understand
Peru's geothermal energy potential,
Peru's geothermal energy potential,
24
79485
3904
01:35
when I remember this legend,
25
83413
2046
01:37
and I began asking that question.
26
85483
1849
01:40
Could the boiling river exist?
27
88316
2547
01:44
I asked colleagues from universities,
28
92140
2199
01:46
the government,
29
94363
1157
01:47
oil, gas and mining companies,
30
95544
1493
01:49
and the answer was a unanimous no.
31
97061
2906
01:52
And this makes sense.
32
100459
2000
01:55
You see, boiling rivers
do exist in the world,
do exist in the world,
33
103070
2628
01:57
but they're generally
associated with volcanoes.
associated with volcanoes.
34
105722
2459
02:00
You need a powerful heat source
35
108649
2147
02:02
to produce such a large
geothermal manifestation.
geothermal manifestation.
36
110820
3366
02:06
And as you can see from the red dots
here, which are volcanoes,
here, which are volcanoes,
37
114210
5204
02:11
we don't have volcanoes in the Amazon,
38
119438
2818
02:14
nor in most of Peru.
39
122280
1818
02:16
So it follows: We should not expect
to see a boiling river.
to see a boiling river.
40
124122
4268
02:21
Telling this same story
at a family dinner,
at a family dinner,
41
129660
4088
02:25
my aunt tells me,
42
133772
2470
02:28
"But no, Andrés, I've been there.
I've swum in that river."
I've swum in that river."
43
136266
3982
02:32
(Laughter)
44
140898
3637
02:36
Then my uncle jumps in.
45
144559
1747
02:38
"No, Andrés, she's not kidding.
46
146330
2730
02:41
You see, you can only swim in it
after a very heavy rain,
after a very heavy rain,
47
149084
3983
02:45
and it's protected by a powerful shaman.
48
153091
3246
02:48
Your aunt, she's friends with his wife."
49
156361
2317
02:51
(Laughter)
50
159257
1805
02:53
"¿Cómo?" ["Huh?"]
51
161086
1151
02:54
You know, despite all
my scientific skepticism,
my scientific skepticism,
52
162261
2214
02:56
I found myself hiking into the jungle,
guided by my aunt,
guided by my aunt,
53
164499
4432
03:00
over 700 kilometers away
from the nearest volcanic center,
from the nearest volcanic center,
54
168955
3897
03:04
and well, honestly,
mentally preparing myself
mentally preparing myself
55
172876
3618
03:08
to behold the legendary
"warm stream of the Amazon."
"warm stream of the Amazon."
56
176518
4376
03:14
But then ...
57
182671
1621
03:16
I heard something,
58
184316
1322
03:19
a low surge
59
187255
1449
03:22
that got louder and louder
60
190347
2695
03:25
as we came closer.
61
193792
1468
03:28
It sounded like ocean waves
constantly crashing,
constantly crashing,
62
196300
3928
03:32
and as we got closer, I saw smoke, vapor,
coming up through the trees.
coming up through the trees.
63
200252
4685
03:36
And then, I saw this.
64
204961
3299
03:41
I immediately grabbed for my thermometer,
65
209791
2469
03:44
and the average temperatures in the river
66
212284
3277
03:47
were 86 degrees C.
67
215585
1987
03:51
This is not quite
the 100-degree C boiling
the 100-degree C boiling
68
219540
3267
03:54
but definitely close enough.
69
222831
2877
03:58
The river flowed hot and fast.
70
226296
3092
04:02
I followed it upriver and was led by,
actually, the shaman's apprentice
actually, the shaman's apprentice
71
230181
3648
04:05
to the most sacred site on the river.
72
233853
1784
04:07
And this is what's bizarre --
73
235661
1406
04:09
It starts off as a cold stream.
74
237091
1982
04:11
And here, at this site,
75
239502
2237
04:13
is the home of the Yacumama,
76
241763
2167
04:15
mother of the waters,
a giant serpent spirit
a giant serpent spirit
77
243954
3343
04:19
who births hot and cold water.
78
247321
2073
04:22
And here we find a hot spring,
79
250015
4412
04:26
mixing with cold stream water
underneath her protective motherly jaws
underneath her protective motherly jaws
80
254451
5358
04:31
and thus bringing their legends to life.
81
259833
3245
04:36
The next morning, I woke up and --
82
264283
1978
04:38
(Laughter)
83
266285
2219
04:40
I asked for tea.
84
268528
2031
04:42
I was handed a mug, a tea bag
85
270583
2240
04:44
and, well, pointed towards the river.
86
272847
2328
04:48
To my surprise, the water was clean
and had a pleasant taste,
and had a pleasant taste,
87
276075
4509
04:52
which is a little weird
for geothermal systems.
for geothermal systems.
88
280608
2994
04:56
What was amazing
89
284441
1548
04:58
is that the locals had always
known about this place,
known about this place,
90
286013
2984
05:01
and that I was by no means
the first outsider to see it.
the first outsider to see it.
91
289021
3704
05:05
It was just part of their everyday life.
92
293701
2937
05:09
They drink its water.
93
297115
2694
05:11
They take in its vapor.
94
299833
2555
05:14
They cook with it,
95
302412
1691
05:16
clean with it,
96
304127
1510
05:17
even make their medicines with it.
97
305661
1798
05:21
I met the shaman,
98
309094
1746
05:22
and he seemed like an extension
of the river and his jungle.
of the river and his jungle.
99
310864
4189
05:27
He asked for my intentions
100
315848
1824
05:30
and listened carefully.
101
318609
1579
05:33
Then, to my tremendous relief --
102
321262
3111
05:36
I was freaking out,
to be honest with you --
to be honest with you --
103
324397
3547
05:39
a smile began to snake across his face,
and he just laughed.
and he just laughed.
104
327968
4279
05:44
(Laughter)
105
332271
2297
05:47
I had received the shaman's blessing
to study the river,
to study the river,
106
335796
4595
05:52
on the condition that after I take
the water samples
the water samples
107
340415
3404
05:55
and analyze them in my lab,
108
343843
1516
05:57
wherever I was in the world,
109
345383
1810
06:00
that I pour the waters
back into the ground
back into the ground
110
348265
3766
06:04
so that, as the shaman said,
111
352055
2047
06:06
the waters could find their way back home.
112
354126
2745
06:11
I've been back every year
since that first visit in 2011,
since that first visit in 2011,
113
359272
3587
06:14
and the fieldwork has been exhilarating,
114
362883
3425
06:18
demanding and at times dangerous.
115
366332
3797
06:22
One story was even featured
in National Geographic Magazine.
in National Geographic Magazine.
116
370913
3215
06:26
I was trapped on a small rock
about the size of a sheet of paper
about the size of a sheet of paper
117
374152
4087
06:30
in sandals and board shorts,
118
378263
2040
06:32
in between an 80 degree C river
119
380327
2406
06:34
and a hot spring that, well,
looked like this, close to boiling.
looked like this, close to boiling.
120
382757
3729
06:39
And on top of that,
it was Amazon rain forest.
it was Amazon rain forest.
121
387070
3538
06:43
Pshh, pouring rain, couldn't see a thing.
122
391206
2506
06:45
The temperature differential
made it all white. It was a whiteout.
made it all white. It was a whiteout.
123
393736
3562
06:50
Intense.
124
398956
1405
06:54
Now, after years of work,
125
402158
2438
06:56
I'll soon be submitting my geophysical
and geochemical studies for publication.
and geochemical studies for publication.
126
404620
5642
07:03
And I'd like to share, today,
with all of you here, on the TED stage,
with all of you here, on the TED stage,
127
411047
3975
07:07
for the first time,
some of these discoveries.
some of these discoveries.
128
415046
3190
07:11
Well, first off, it's not a legend.
129
419340
2531
07:14
Surprise!
130
422468
1174
07:15
(Laughter)
131
423666
2325
07:18
When I first started the research,
132
426015
2514
07:20
the satellite imagery was too
low-resolution to be meaningful.
low-resolution to be meaningful.
133
428553
2979
07:23
There were just no good maps.
134
431556
1628
07:25
Thanks to the support
of the Google Earth team,
of the Google Earth team,
135
433754
2391
07:28
I now have this.
136
436169
1345
07:31
Not only that, the indigenous name
of the river, Shanay-timpishka,
of the river, Shanay-timpishka,
137
439251
5350
07:37
"boiled with the heat of the sun,"
138
445538
2730
07:41
indicating that I'm not the first
to wonder why the river boils,
to wonder why the river boils,
139
449540
5379
07:46
and showing that humanity
has always sought to explain
has always sought to explain
140
454943
3227
07:50
the world around us.
141
458194
1539
07:53
So why does the river boil?
142
461526
2398
07:55
(Bubbling sounds)
143
463948
4413
08:00
It actually took me three years
to get that footage.
to get that footage.
144
468385
2495
08:04
Fault-fed hot springs.
145
472879
1605
08:07
As we have hot blood running
through our veins and arteries,
through our veins and arteries,
146
475625
3633
08:11
so, too, the earth has hot water
running through its cracks and faults.
running through its cracks and faults.
147
479282
5048
08:17
Where these arteries come to the surface,
these earth arteries,
these earth arteries,
148
485162
3595
08:20
we'll get geothermal manifestations:
149
488781
2374
08:23
fumaroles, hot springs
and in our case, the boiling river.
and in our case, the boiling river.
150
491179
4020
08:28
What's truly incredible, though,
is the scale of this place.
is the scale of this place.
151
496459
4100
08:33
Next time you cross the road,
think about this.
think about this.
152
501221
2346
08:36
The river flows wider than a two-lane road
153
504527
2672
08:39
along most of its path.
154
507223
1864
08:41
It flows hot for 6.24 kilometers.
155
509674
5343
08:48
Truly impressive.
156
516223
1509
08:51
There are thermal pools
larger than this TED stage,
larger than this TED stage,
157
519077
3000
08:54
and that waterfall that you see there
158
522101
2476
08:56
is six meters tall --
159
524601
2038
08:59
and all with near-boiling water.
160
527384
3292
09:04
We mapped the temperatures
along the river,
along the river,
161
532243
2056
09:06
and this was by far the most
demanding part of the fieldwork.
demanding part of the fieldwork.
162
534323
3118
09:09
And the results were just awesome.
163
537866
3687
09:13
Sorry -- the geoscientist
in me coming out.
in me coming out.
164
541577
3153
09:16
And it showed this amazing trend.
165
544754
2426
09:19
You see, the river starts off cold.
166
547204
2216
09:21
It then heats up, cools back down,
heats up, cools back down,
heats up, cools back down,
167
549444
2995
09:24
heats up again, and then has
this beautiful decay curve
this beautiful decay curve
168
552463
2618
09:27
until it smashes into this cold river.
169
555105
2372
09:30
Now, I understand not all of you
are geothermal scientists,
are geothermal scientists,
170
558539
2794
09:33
so to put it in more everyday terms:
171
561357
2225
09:36
Everyone loves coffee.
172
564225
2133
09:38
Yes? Good.
173
566382
1269
09:40
Your regular cup of coffee, 54 degrees C,
174
568517
3683
09:44
an extra-hot one, well, 60.
175
572224
2110
09:46
So, put in coffee shop terms,
176
574896
2171
09:49
the boiling river plots like this.
177
577091
2563
09:52
There you have your hot coffee.
178
580401
1499
09:54
Here you have your extra-hot coffee,
179
582906
1724
09:56
and you can see
that there's a bit point there
that there's a bit point there
180
584654
2174
09:58
where the river is still hotter
than even the extra-hot coffee.
than even the extra-hot coffee.
181
586852
2988
10:01
And these are average water temperatures.
182
589864
1992
10:03
We took these in the dry season to ensure
the purest geothermal temperatures.
the purest geothermal temperatures.
183
591880
4199
10:08
But there's a magic number here
that's not being shown,
that's not being shown,
184
596603
2620
10:11
and that number is 47 degrees C,
185
599247
2530
10:14
because that's where things start to hurt,
186
602856
2522
10:17
and I know this from very
personal experience.
personal experience.
187
605402
4173
10:22
Above that temperature,
you don't want to get in that water.
you don't want to get in that water.
188
610186
2826
10:25
You need to be careful.
189
613036
1662
10:26
It can be deadly.
190
614722
1315
10:28
I've seen all sorts of animals fall in,
191
616704
2291
10:31
and what's shocking to me,
is the process is pretty much the same.
is the process is pretty much the same.
192
619019
4179
10:35
So they fall in and the first thing
to go are the eyes.
to go are the eyes.
193
623898
2681
10:38
Eyes, apparently, cook very quickly.
They turn this milky-white color.
They turn this milky-white color.
194
626603
3367
10:41
The stream is carrying them.
195
629994
1350
10:43
They're trying to swim out,
but their meat is cooking on the bone
but their meat is cooking on the bone
196
631368
3063
10:46
because it's so hot.
197
634455
1166
10:47
So they're losing power, losing power,
198
635645
1845
10:49
until finally they get to a point
where hot water goes into their mouths
where hot water goes into their mouths
199
637514
3390
10:52
and they cook from the inside out.
200
640928
2221
10:55
(Laughter)
201
643440
5232
11:00
A bit sadistic, aren't we?
202
648696
2119
11:02
Jeez.
203
650839
1340
11:05
Leave them marinating for a little longer.
204
653362
2618
11:09
What's, again, amazing
are these temperatures.
are these temperatures.
205
657468
2728
11:12
They're similar to things that I've seen
on volcanoes all over the world
on volcanoes all over the world
206
660220
3478
11:15
and even super-volcanoes like Yellowstone.
207
663722
2537
11:18
But here's the thing:
208
666896
1308
11:22
the data is showing
that the boiling river exists
that the boiling river exists
209
670173
4999
11:27
independent of volcanism.
210
675196
2290
11:30
It's neither magmatic
or volcanic in origin,
or volcanic in origin,
211
678491
3420
11:35
and again, over 700 kilometers away
from the nearest volcanic center.
from the nearest volcanic center.
212
683722
6203
11:42
How can a boiling river exist like this?
213
690543
4366
11:47
I've asked geothermal experts
and volcanologists for years,
and volcanologists for years,
214
695790
3156
11:50
and I'm still unable to find another
non-volcanic geothermal system
non-volcanic geothermal system
215
698970
4817
11:55
of this magnitude.
216
703811
1567
11:59
It's unique.
217
707121
1524
12:01
It's special on a global scale.
218
709489
3442
12:06
So, still -- how does it work?
219
714708
2468
12:10
Where do we get this heat?
220
718460
2136
12:13
There's still more research to be done
221
721186
2093
12:15
to better constrain the problem
and better understand the system,
and better understand the system,
222
723303
3189
12:18
but from what the data is telling us now,
223
726516
2326
12:20
it looks to be the result
of a large hydrothermal system.
of a large hydrothermal system.
224
728866
3364
12:25
Basically, it works like this:
225
733151
1460
12:26
So, the deeper you go
into the earth, the hotter it gets.
into the earth, the hotter it gets.
226
734635
3308
12:29
We refer to this
as the geothermal gradient.
as the geothermal gradient.
227
737967
2628
12:33
The waters could be coming
from as far away as glaciers in the Andes,
from as far away as glaciers in the Andes,
228
741460
4928
12:38
then seeping down deep into the earth
229
746412
1999
12:40
and coming out to form the boiling river
230
748435
2767
12:43
after getting heated up
from the geothermal gradient,
from the geothermal gradient,
231
751226
3007
12:47
all due to this unique geologic setting.
232
755311
2239
12:50
Now, we found
that in and around the river --
that in and around the river --
233
758587
2847
12:53
this is working with colleagues
234
761458
1493
12:54
from National Geographic,
Dr. Spencer Wells,
Dr. Spencer Wells,
235
762975
2087
12:57
and Dr. Jon Eisen from UC Davis --
236
765086
2710
12:59
we genetically sequenced
the extremophile lifeforms
the extremophile lifeforms
237
767820
3262
13:03
living in and around the river,
and have found new lifeforms,
and have found new lifeforms,
238
771106
4604
13:07
unique species living
in the boiling river.
in the boiling river.
239
775734
3415
13:12
But again, despite all of these studies,
all of these discoveries and the legends,
all of these discoveries and the legends,
240
780264
5243
13:18
a question remains:
241
786499
1000
13:21
What is the significance
of the boiling river?
of the boiling river?
242
789704
2920
13:26
What is the significance
of this stationary cloud
of this stationary cloud
243
794601
4646
13:31
that always hovers
over this patch of jungle?
over this patch of jungle?
244
799271
2876
13:35
And what is the significance
245
803333
2650
13:38
of a detail in a childhood legend?
246
806007
2983
13:43
To the shaman and his community,
it's a sacred site.
it's a sacred site.
247
811547
3108
13:47
To me, as a geoscientist,
248
815414
2345
13:49
it's a unique geothermal phenomenon.
249
817783
2843
13:54
But to the illegal loggers
and cattle farmers,
and cattle farmers,
250
822074
3698
13:57
it's just another resource to exploit.
251
825796
3643
14:02
And to the Peruvian government,
it's just another stretch
it's just another stretch
252
830820
3787
14:06
of unprotected land ready for development.
253
834631
5944
14:14
My goal is to ensure
that whoever controls this land
that whoever controls this land
254
842186
3596
14:17
understands the boiling river's
uniqueness and significance.
uniqueness and significance.
255
845806
4118
14:22
Because that's the question,
256
850892
1738
14:25
one of significance.
257
853853
1634
14:28
And the thing there is,
258
856568
2329
14:32
we define significance.
259
860110
2081
14:34
It's us. We have that power.
260
862998
2660
14:37
We are the ones who draw that line
261
865682
2728
14:40
between the sacred and the trivial.
262
868434
2348
14:43
And in this age,
263
871736
2276
14:46
where everything seems mapped,
measured and studied,
measured and studied,
264
874036
3498
14:51
in this age of information,
265
879290
2466
14:54
I remind you all that discoveries
are not just made
are not just made
266
882899
3572
14:58
in the black void of the unknown
267
886495
4563
15:04
but in the white noise
of overwhelming data.
of overwhelming data.
268
892153
3409
15:09
There remains so much to explore.
269
897862
2985
15:13
We live in an incredible world.
270
901958
3495
15:17
So go out.
271
905477
1519
15:20
Be curious.
272
908306
1857
15:23
Because we do live in a world
273
911711
3043
15:27
where shamans still sing
to the spirits of the jungle,
to the spirits of the jungle,
274
915539
3280
15:32
where rivers do boil
275
920399
1841
15:35
and where legends do come to life.
276
923299
2536
15:39
Thank you very much.
277
927018
1181
15:40
(Applause)
278
928223
8586
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Andrés Ruzo - GeoscientistAndrés Ruzo investigates the Earth's heat and the mystery of a boiling river in the Peruvian rainforest.
Why you should listen
Andrés Ruzo is a tri-citizen who grew up among Nicaragua, Peru and Texas -- which helped him see that most of the world's problems are not confined by geographic or cultural borders. While trying to imagine solutions, he realized the way we produce and use energy lies at the root of many of our biggest issues. Combined with his memories of summers on his family's farm on Nicaragua's Casita volcano, playing in the fumarole fields, this prompted him to pursue a PhD in geophysics at SMU, focusing on geothermal studies. He is also a National Geographic Young Explorer.
Investigating a childhood legend led him to the Shanay-timpishka, the "Boiling River" of the Amazon, and a sacred site to the indigenous tribes, where the water can reach over 95 °C (203 °F). The greatest mystery of this place: How can a "boiling river" exist 700 km (435 miles) from the nearest volcanic center?
Ruzo is the author of the TED Book, The Boiling River: Adventure and Discovery in the Amazon.
Andrés Ruzo | Speaker | TED.com