TED2014
Stanley McChrystal: The military case for sharing knowledge
Stanley McChrystal: Vojni slučaj za dijeljenjem znanja
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Kad je general Stanley McChrystal započeo borbu s al Qaeda-om 2003., informacije i tajne bile su žila kucavica njegovih operacija. Ali kako je nekonvencionalna borba tekla, on je počeo razmišljati o tome da je kultura držanja važnih informacija kao povjerljivih pogrešno vođena i zapravo kontraproduktivna. U kratkom ali snažnom govoru McChrystal se zalaže za aktivno dijeljenje znanja.
Stanley McChrystal - Military leader
General Stanley McChrystal is the former commander of U.S. and International forces in Afghanistan. A four-star general, he is credited for creating a revolution in warfare that fuses intelligence and operations. Full bio
General Stanley McChrystal is the former commander of U.S. and International forces in Afghanistan. A four-star general, he is credited for creating a revolution in warfare that fuses intelligence and operations. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
When I was a young officer, they told me
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Kad sam bio mladi časnik, rečeno mi je
00:14
to follow my instincts,
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da slijedim svoje instikte,
00:16
to go with my gut,
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da budem hrabar,
00:19
and what I've learned
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a ono što sam naučio jest
00:21
is that often our instincts are wrong.
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da su naši instinkti često u krivu.
00:25
In the summer of 2010,
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U ljeto 2010,
00:28
there was a massive leak of classified documents
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procurio je veliki broj povjerljivih dokumenata
00:32
that came out of the Pentagon.
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iz Pentagona.
00:35
It shocked the world,
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To je šokiralo svijet,
00:36
it shook up the American government,
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uzdrmalo je američku vladu,
00:38
and it made people ask a lot of questions,
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a ljudi su počeli postavljati pitanja,
00:40
because the sheer amount of information
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jer je sama količina informacija
00:43
that was let out, and the potential impacts,
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koja je puštena kao i potencijalni utjecaji,
00:46
were significant.
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bili značajni.
00:49
And one of the first questions we asked ourselves
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Jedno od prvih pitanja koje smo si postavili
00:53
was why would a young soldier have access
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je bilo zašto bi mladi vojnik imao pristup
00:56
to that much information?
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tako velikom broju informacija?
00:59
Why would we let sensitive things
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Zašto bismo dopustili osjetljivim materijalima
01:01
be with a relatively young person?
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da budu kod relativno mlade osobe?
01:05
In the summer of 2003, I was assigned to command
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U ljeto 2003., bio sam zapovjednik
01:08
a special operations task force,
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radne skupine na specijalnom zadatku
01:11
and that task force was spread across the Mideast
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koja je bila rasprostranjena na Bliskom Istoku
01:13
to fight al Qaeda.
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kako bi se borila s al Qaeda-om.
01:15
Our main effort was inside Iraq,
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Naš najveći napor odnosio se na Irak,
01:18
and our specified mission
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i naša posebna misija
01:20
was to defeat al Qaeda in Iraq.
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je bila da porazimo al Qaeda-u u Iraku.
01:21
For almost five years I stayed there,
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Tamo sam ostao gotovo pet godina,
01:25
and we focused on fighting a war
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i usredotočili smo se na ratovanje
01:26
that was unconventional and it was difficult
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koje je bilo nekonvencionalno i teško
01:31
and it was bloody
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bilo je i krvavo
01:33
and it often claimed its highest price
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a najčešće je uzimalo najviši danak
01:36
among innocent people.
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među nedužnima.
01:39
We did everything we could
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Učinili smo sve što smo mogli
01:42
to stop al Qaeda
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da zaustavimo al Quaeda-u
01:44
and the foreign fighters that
came in as suicide bombers
came in as suicide bombers
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i strane borce koji
su dolazili kao bombaši samoubojice
su dolazili kao bombaši samoubojice
01:47
and as accelerants to the violence.
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i tako pridonosili povećavanju nasilja.
01:52
We honed our combat skills,
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Usavršavali smo naše borbene vještine,
01:54
we developed new equipment,
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razvili smo novu opremu,
01:57
we parachuted, we helicoptered,
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koristili pradobrane i helikoptere,
02:00
we took small boats, we drove, and we walked
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uzimali smo malene brodove, vozili i hodali
02:02
to objectives night after night to stop
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prema ciljevima iz noći u noć kako bismo zaustavili
02:05
the killing that this network was putting forward.
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ubijanje koje je nametnula ova organizacija.
02:10
We bled,
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Krvarili smo,
02:13
we died,
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umirali,
02:14
and we killed to stop that organization
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i ubijali kako bismo spriječili tu organizaciju
02:19
from the violence that they were putting
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u nasilju kojeg su širili
02:21
largely against the Iraqi people.
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uglavnom protiv Iračana.
02:25
Now, we did what we knew,
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Naime, radili smo što smo znali,
02:28
how we had grown up, and
one of the things that we knew,
one of the things that we knew,
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kako su nas odgojili, i
jedna od stvari koje smo znali,
jedna od stvari koje smo znali,
02:31
that was in our DNA, was secrecy.
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koja je postojala u našem DNK, jest bila tajnovitost.
02:34
It was security. It was protecting information.
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Bila je sigurnost. Bila je zaštititi informaciju.
02:36
It was the idea that information was the lifeblood
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Bila je ideja da je informacija žila kucavica
02:39
and it was what would protect and keep people safe.
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i ono što treba zaštiti kako bi ljudi bili sigurni.
02:42
And we had a sense that,
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Imali smo osjećaj za to,
02:44
as we operated within our organizations,
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djelujući u našim organizacijama,
02:46
it was important to keep information
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bilo je važno držati informacije
02:48
in the silos within the organizations,
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u silosima unutar organizacija,
02:50
particularly only give information
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konkretno, davati ih samo
02:53
to people had a demonstrated need to know.
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ljudima koji su opravdali svoje zahtjeve za njom.
02:57
But the question often came, who needed to know?
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Ali postavljalo se pitanje, tko treba znati?
03:02
Who needed, who had to have the information
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Tko je trebao, tko je morao imati informaciju
03:05
so that they could do the important
parts of the job that you needed?
parts of the job that you needed?
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kako bi učinili važne
dijelove posla koji su tebi koristili?
dijelove posla koji su tebi koristili?
03:09
And in a tightly coupled world,
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A u čvrsto grupiranom svijetu,
03:11
that's very hard to predict.
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to je vrlo teško za predvidjeti.
03:13
It's very hard to know who needs to have information
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Vrlo je teško znati tko treba imati informaciju
03:16
and who doesn't.
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a tko ne.
03:18
I used to deal with intelligence agencies,
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Nekoć sam imao posla s tajnim službama,
03:20
and I'd complain that they weren't
sharing enough intelligence,
sharing enough intelligence,
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i žalio bih im se da
ne dijele dovoljno informacija,
ne dijele dovoljno informacija,
03:22
and with a straight face, they'd
look at me and they'd say,
look at me and they'd say,
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i potpuno ozbiljni, oni bi
me pogledali i rekli,
me pogledali i rekli,
03:24
"What aren't you getting?" (Laughter)
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„Što ne dobivaš?“ (Smijeh)
03:26
I said, "If I knew that, we wouldn't have a problem."
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Rekao sam, „Da to znam, ne bi imali problema.“
03:32
But what we found is we had to change.
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Ali ono što smo shvatili jest da bismo se morali promijeniti.
03:34
We had to change our culture about information.
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Morali bismo promjeniti našu kulturu u odnosu na informacije.
03:36
We had to knock down walls. We had to share.
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Morali bismo srušiti zidove. Morali bismo dijeliti.
03:38
We had to change from who needs to know
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Od pretpostavke tko treba znati
03:41
to the fact that who doesn't know,
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trebali bismo prijeći na to da tko god ne zna,
03:43
and we need to tell, and tell
them as quickly as we can.
them as quickly as we can.
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trebali bismo mu otkriti informaciju
i to što brže moguće.
i to što brže moguće.
03:46
It was a significant culture shift for an organization
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To je bio značajan kulturalni preokret za organizaciju
03:49
that had secrecy in its DNA.
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koja je imala tajnovitost u genima.
03:55
We started by doing things, by building,
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Počeli smo raditi stvari, graditi,
03:57
not working in offices,
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ne radeći u uredima,
03:59
knocking down walls, working in things we called
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rušeći zidove, radeći u kako smo ih zvali
04:00
situation awareness rooms,
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sobama za situacijsko osvještavanje,
04:03
and in the summer of 2007,
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a u ljeto 2007,
04:05
something happened which demonstrated this.
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dogodilo se nešto što je demonstriralo to.
04:07
We captured the personnel records
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Nabavili smo dokumente osoblja
04:09
for the people who were bringing foreign fighters
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ljudi koji su dovodili strane borce
04:11
into Iraq.
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u Irak.
04:13
And when we got the personnel records, typically,
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I kad smo dobili dokumente osoblja, tipično,
04:15
we would have hidden these,
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sakrili bismo ih,
04:17
shared them with a few intelligence agencies,
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podijelili ih s nekoliko tajnih službi,
04:19
and then try to operate with them.
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i onda pokušali djelovati s njima.
04:21
But as I was talking to my intelligence officer,
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No kako sam pričao sa časnikom svoje službe,
04:23
I said, "What do we do?"
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Pitao sam „Što ćemo učiniti?“
04:24
And he said, "Well, you found them." Our command.
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A on je rekao, „Pa, ti si ih pronašao.“
Naše zapovjedništvo.
Naše zapovjedništvo.
04:27
"You can just declassify them."
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„Ti ih možeš učiniti javnima.“
04:29
And I said, "Well, can we declassify them?
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Ja sam pitao, „Dakle, možemo li ih označiti kao javne?
04:31
What if the enemy finds out?"
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Što ako neprijatelj sazna?“
04:32
And he says, "They're their personnel records."
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A on je rekao, „To su dokumenti njihovog osoblja.“
04:34
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:36
So we did,
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Stoga i jesmo,
04:37
and a lot of people got upset about that,
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i mnogo ljudi se uznemirilo zbog toga,
04:39
but as we passed that information around,
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ali kako se informacija proširila,
04:41
suddenly you find that information is only of value
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odjednom saznaš da je informacija jedino vrijedna
04:44
if you give it to people who have the ability
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ako je daš ljudima koji su sposobni
04:46
to do something with it.
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učiniti nešto s njom.
04:48
The fact that I know something has zero value
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Činjenica da ja nešto znam nema nikakvu vrijednost
04:50
if I'm not the person who can actually
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ako ja nisam osoba koja zapravo
04:52
make something better because of it.
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može nešto poboljšati uz pomoć toga.
04:54
So as a consequence, what we did was
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Ono što smo napravili, za posljedicu je imalo
04:56
we changed the idea of information,
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promjenu ideje o informaciji ,
04:59
instead of knowledge is power,
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umjesto „znanje je moć“,
05:01
to one where sharing is power.
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u „dijeljenje je moć“.
05:04
It was the fundamental shift,
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Bila je to temeljna prekretnica,
05:06
not new tactics, not new weapons,
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nikakva nova taktika, nikakva nova oružja,
05:08
not new anything else.
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ama baš ništa novo.
05:10
It was the idea that we were now part of a team
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Bila je to ideja da smo mi sad dio skupine
05:12
in which information became the essential link
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u kojem je informacija postala osnovna poveznica
05:15
between us, not a block between us.
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a ne blokada, između nas.
05:19
And I want everybody to take a deep breath
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I želim da svi duboko udahnete
05:22
and let it out,
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i izdahnete,
05:24
because in your life, there's going to be information
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jer će u vašem životu, biti informacija
05:26
that leaks out you're not going to like.
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koje će procuriti, a vama neće biti drago.
05:28
Somebody's going to get my college grades out,
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Netko će objelodaniti moje ocjene s fakulteta,
05:30
a that's going to be a disaster. (Laughter)
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a to bi bila katastrofa. (Smijeh)
05:34
But it's going to be okay, and I will tell you that
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Ali to će biti u redu, i reći ću vam
05:38
I am more scared of the bureaucrat
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da se više bojim birokrata
05:41
that holds information in a desk drawer
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koji drži informaciju u ladici
05:43
or in a safe than I am of someone who leaks,
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ili u sefu nego nekoga koji ju otkrije,
05:46
because ultimately, we'll be better off if we share.
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jer na kraju krajeva, bit će nam bolje ako dijelimo.
05:49
Thank you.
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Hvala.
05:51
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
05:57
Helen Walters: So I don't know if
you were here this morning,
you were here this morning,
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Helen Walters: Ne znam jeste li
bili ovdje jutros,
bili ovdje jutros,
05:59
if you were able to catch Rick Ledgett,
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jeste li uspjeli uhvatiti Ricka Ledgetta,
06:01
the deputy director of the NSA
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zamjenika direktora NSA
06:03
who was responding to Edward
Snowden's talk earlier this week.
Snowden's talk earlier this week.
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koji je odgovarao na govor
Edwarda Snowedena ranije ovog tjedna.
Edwarda Snowedena ranije ovog tjedna.
06:07
I just wonder, do you think the American government
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Zanima me, smatrate li da američka vlada
06:09
should give Edward Snowden amnesty?
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treba dati Edwardu amnestiju?
06:12
Stanley McChrystal: I think that
Rick said something very important.
Rick said something very important.
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Stanley McChrystal: Mislim da je
Rick rekao nešto vrlo važno.
Rick rekao nešto vrlo važno.
06:14
We, most people, don't know all the facts.
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Mi, većina, ne znamo sve činjenice.
06:17
I think there are two parts of this.
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Držim da postoje dvije strane ovoga.
06:18
Edward Snowden shined a
light on an important need
light on an important need
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Edward Snowden bacio je svijetlo
na važnu potrebu
na važnu potrebu
06:22
that people had to understand.
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koju ljudi trebaju razumijeti.
06:23
He also took a lot of documents that he didn't have
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On je također uzeo mnogo dokumenata za koje nije imao
06:26
the knowledge to know the importance of,
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znanja razumijeti njihovu važnost,
06:29
so I think we need to learn the facts about this case
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stoga mislim da trebamo shvatiti činjenice o ovom slučaju
06:31
before we make snap judgments
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prije nego li brzamo s osudama
06:33
about Edward Snowden.
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o Edwardu Snowdenu.
06:35
HW: Thank you so much. Thank you.
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HW: Hvala puno. Hvala vam.
06:37
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Stanley McChrystal - Military leaderGeneral Stanley McChrystal is the former commander of U.S. and International forces in Afghanistan. A four-star general, he is credited for creating a revolution in warfare that fuses intelligence and operations.
Why you should listen
With a remarkable record of achievement, General Stanley McChrystal has been praised for creating a revolution in warfare that fused intelligence and operations. A four-star general, he is the former commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan and the former leader of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), which oversees the military’s most sensitive forces. McChrystal’s leadership of JSOC is credited with the December 2003 capture of Saddam Hussein and the June 2006 location and killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq. McChrystal, a former Green Beret, is known for his candor.
After McChrystal graduated from West Point, he was commissioned as an infantry officer, and spent much of his career commanding special operations and airborne infantry units. During the Persian Gulf War, McChrystal served in a Joint Special Operations Task Force and later commanded the 75th Ranger Regiment. He completed year-long fellowships at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government in 1997 and in 2000 at the Council on Foreign Relations. In 2002, he was appointed chief of staff of military operations in Afghanistan. Two years later, McChrystal was selected to deliver nationally televised Pentagon briefings about military operations in Iraq. From 2003 to 2008, McChrystal commanded JSOC and was responsible for leading the nation’s deployed military counter-terrorism efforts around the globe. He assumed command of all International Forces in Afghanistan in June 2009. President Obama’s order for an additional 30,000 troops to Afghanistan was based on McChrystal’s assessment of the war there. McChrystal retired from the military in August 2010.
Stanley McChrystal | Speaker | TED.com