TED2002
George Dyson: The story of Project Orion
ジョージ・ダイソン「オリオン計画について」
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ジョージ・ダイソンが五年後に土星への足がかりとなっていたかもしれない、巨大な核燃料駆動の宇宙船、オリオン計画について語ります。彼の秘めたる考え方とドキュメントの秘密の隠し場は原子力時代の夢を現実のものにします。
George Dyson - Historian of science
In telling stories of technologies and the individuals who created them, George Dyson takes a clear-eyed view of our scientific past -- while illuminating what lies ahead. Full bio
In telling stories of technologies and the individuals who created them, George Dyson takes a clear-eyed view of our scientific past -- while illuminating what lies ahead. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm a historian.
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私は歴史家です
00:14
Steve told us about the future of little technology;
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スティーブは技術の将来について少し話してくれました
00:17
I'm going to show you some of the past of big technology.
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私は過去の超技術をお見せしようと思います
00:21
This was a project to build a 4,000-ton nuclear bomb-propelled spaceship
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これは4000トンの核パルス推進搭載した宇宙船で
00:27
and go to Saturn and Jupiter.
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土星と木星へ行く計画でした
00:30
This took place in my childhood -- 1957 to '65.
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この計画は私の幼少時代 1957から1965年のもので
00:34
It was deeply classified.
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機密扱いされていました
00:36
I'm going to show you some stuff that not only has not been declassified,
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機密区分から外れただけでなく再分類された部分を
00:40
but has now been reclassified.
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いくらかお見せしようと思います
00:42
(Laughter)
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(笑)
00:46
If all goes well, next year I'll be back and I'll have a lot more to show you,
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全てうまくいけば 来年ここでもっと色々お見せできるでしょうが
00:50
and if all doesn't go well, I'll be in jail like Wen Ho Lee.
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さもないとウェン・ホー・リー同様刑務所にいることでしょう
00:53
(Laughter)
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(笑)
00:58
So, this ship was basically the size of the Marriott Hotel,
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この宇宙船は基本的にマリオットホテルより若干
01:02
a little taller and a little bigger.
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長く 大きいものです
01:04
And one of the people who worked on it in the beginning
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当初の計画関係者の一人が私の父
01:07
was my father, Freeman, there in the middle.
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真ん中に見える フリーマンです
01:09
That's me and my sister, Esther, who's a frequent TEDster.
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こちらは私と私の姉妹エスターでTEDをしばしば...
01:12
I didn't like nuclear bomb-propelled spaceships.
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核パルス推進の宇宙船は気に入りませんでした
01:15
I mean, I thought it was a great idea, but I started building kayaks.
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素晴らしい考えとは思いましたが 私はカヤックを作り始めました
01:18
So we had a few kayaks.
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それで カヤックをいくつか持っていました
01:20
Just so you know, I am not Dr. Strangelove.
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要は「博士の異常な愛情」ではないのです
01:24
But all the time I was out there doing these strange kayak voyages
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しかし当時は常に外に出て世界の奇妙だったり
01:27
in odd, beautiful parts of this planet,
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美しい部分をカヤックで旅している最中も
01:30
I always thought in the back of my mind about Project Orion,
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いつも心の内でオリオン計画や 父と関係者が
01:33
and how my father and his friends were going to build these big ships.
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そんなに巨大な船をどのように作るのか考えていました
01:37
They were really going to go, they were actually going to go.
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彼らは本当にこの計画を実行しようとしていました
01:40
Ted Taylor, who led the project, was going to take his children.
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指揮官のテッド・テイラーは子供を連れて行くつもりで
01:42
My father was not going to take his children;
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私の父にその気はなかったようで
01:44
that was one of the reasons we sort of had a falling out for a few years.
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こうして親子の間に数年 ちょっとした溝を生じました
01:49
(Laughter)
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(笑)
01:51
The project began in '57 at General Atomics there.
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この計画は1957年にラ・ホイヤの海岸沿いで
01:55
That's right on the coast at La Jolla.
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ジェネラル・アトミック社が始めました
01:57
Look at that central building right in the middle of the picture:
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写真の真ん中の建物を見てください
01:59
that's the 130-foot diameter library,
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これは直径約40mもある図書館です
02:03
that is exactly the size of the base of the spaceship.
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これは宇宙船底部と当に同じサイズです
02:06
So put that library at the bottom of that ship --
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この図書館を底部だと考えると
02:08
that's how big the thing was going to be.
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これがこの宇宙船の大きさです
02:10
It would take 2,000 or 3,000 bombs.
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２、３千の爆弾を積む予定でした
02:13
The people who worked on it were a lot of the Los Alamos people
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関係者の多くはロスアラモス研究所の
02:15
who had done the hydrogen bomb work.
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出身で水素爆弾の経験を有していました
02:17
It was the first project funded by ARPA.
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これは米国防総省後援の初めてのプロジェクトでした
02:19
That's the contract where ARPA gave the first million dollars
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これが契約書です APRAは数百万ドルの
02:22
to get this thing started.
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出資をしました
02:23
"Spaceship project officially begun. Job waiting for you. Dyson."
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「宇宙船計画開始 求人 ダイソン」
02:27
That's July '58.
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これは1958年7月のことです
02:29
Two days later, the space traveler's manifesto explaining why --
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二日後には宇宙飛行声明書が 昨日聞いたように
02:32
just like we heard yesterday -- why we need to go into space:
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宇宙に行く理由について説明をしました
02:36
"trips to satellites of the outer planets. August 20, 1958."
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「地球外の衛星への旅」と発表したのは同年の８月20日
02:40
These are the statistics of what would be the good places to go and stop. (Laughter)
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これは目的地 滞在先に最適な場所を記した統計です
02:44
Some of the sizes of the ships,
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宇宙船のいくつかは
02:46
ranging all the way up to ship mass of 8 million tons,
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８億トンにまで到達していました
02:49
so that was the outer extreme.
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これが究極の型です
02:51
Here was version two: 2,000 bombs.
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こちらは二号機で爆弾の数は2000
02:56
These are five kiloton yield bombs about the size of small Volkswagens;
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５kt(キロトン)で小型のフォルクスワーゲン程の爆弾です
03:00
it would take 800 to get into orbit.
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軌道に乗せるにはこれが800個必要だったそうです
03:03
Here we see a 10,000 ton ship
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10000トンのものがあります 1300トンを
03:06
will deliver 1,300 tons to Saturn and back;
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乗せて土星を往復可能です
03:09
essentially a five year trip.
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文字通り５年間の旅になります
03:11
Possible departure dates: October 1960 to February 1967. (Laughter)
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出発は1960年10月から1967年の２月に設定されていました
03:15
This is trajectories going to Mars;
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これは火星への弾道曲線です
03:18
all this was done by hand with slide rules.
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計算尺は使いましたが手書きです
03:20
The little Orion ship
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この小さなオリオン船は
03:21
and what it would take to do what Orion does with chemicals:
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化学的手段を備えたエンパイアステイトビルのサイズの
03:24
you have a ship the size of the Empire State Building.
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オリオンと同じ馬力を出せたそうです
03:26
NASA had no interest; they tried to kill the project.
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無関心のNASAは計画をダメに
03:28
The people who supported it were the Air Force,
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しようとし これを空軍が支援しました
03:30
which meant that it was all secret.
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つまり全てが機密だったわけです
03:32
And that's why when you get something declassified,
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このため何かが機密扱いから外れると
03:34
that's what it looks like. (Laughter)
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こんな感じになるのです
03:37
Military weapon versions that were versions that carried
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軍部仕様は地球の半分を破壊できる
03:39
hydrogen bombs that could destroy half the planet.
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水素爆弾搭載のものです
03:41
There's another version there that sends retaliatory strikes at the Soviet Union.
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もう一つソビエトを報復に爆撃するものもありました
03:45
This is the real secret stuff: how to get directed energy explosions
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これは機密であったエネルギー指向爆破を作成
03:49
so you're sending the energy of a nuclear explosion --
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核爆破の利用方法です
03:51
not like just a stick of dynamite,
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単なる棒状のダイナマイトとは異なり
03:53
but you're directing it at the ship.
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これを宇宙船に向けるのです
03:55
And this is still a very active subject.
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これは未だに利用されています
03:57
It's quite dangerous,
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きわめて危険ですが
03:59
but I believe it's better to have dangerous things in the open
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危険因子の公開的な保持は
04:01
than think you're going to keep them secret.
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非公開よりはましだと考えます
04:03
This is what's happened at 600 microseconds.
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これが600マイクロ秒内に起こるのです
04:05
The Air Force started to build smaller models and actually started doing this.
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空軍は小型のモデルを開発し実行に移しました
04:10
The guys in La Jolla said, "We've got to get started now."
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「今こそ始める時だ」とラ・ホイヤの関係者は
04:13
They built a high-explosive propelled model.
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高性能爆弾駆動モデルを作りました
04:15
These are stills from film footage that was saved by someone
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これは破棄予定でしたが何者かによって
04:19
who was supposed to destroy it but didn't
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地下で40年間保存されていた
04:21
and kept it in their basement for the last 40 years.
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映像の抜粋の一部です
04:23
So, these are three-pound charges of C4;
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これは1kg弱のC4(プラスチック爆弾)です
04:26
that's about 10 times what the guy had in his shoes. (Laughter)
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これは靴に隠されていたものの10倍に相当します
04:30
This is Ed Day putting ... So each of these coffee cans has three pounds of C4 in it.
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それぞれのコーヒー缶に1kgのC4が詰まっています
04:35
They're building a system that ejects these at quarter-second intervals.
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彼らは１／４秒毎にこれ射出するシステムを構築していました
04:39
That's my dad in the sport coat there holding the briefcase.
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ブリーフケースを持っているのは父です
04:42
So, they had a lot of fun doing this. But no children were allowed;
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大人は楽しんだようですが 子供は禁止されていました
04:45
my dad could tell me he was building a spaceship
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父は宇宙船の開発と土星への飛行について
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and going to go to Saturn,
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話すこともできたでしょうが
04:50
but he could not say anything more about it.
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詳しいことは言いませんでした
04:52
So all my life I have wanted to find this stuff out,
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今までずっと真相解明を目指し
04:54
and spent the last four years tracking these old guys down.
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ここ4年間彼らを追い続けてきました
04:56
These are stills from the video.
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これはビデオの抜粋です
04:58
Jeff Bezos kindly, yesterday, said
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ありがたいことにジェフ・ベゾスは昨日言っていました
05:01
he'll put this video up on the Amazon site -- some little clip of it. (Applause)
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「このビデオのクリップをAmazonにアップしとくよ」
05:04
So, thanks to him.
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彼には感謝したいと思います
05:06
They got quite serious about the engineering of this.
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制作は真剣に行われていました
05:08
The size of that mass, for us, is really large technology
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この塊は私達にとっては途方もない技術です
05:12
in a way we're never going to go back to.
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こんなもの二度と作りたくありません
05:15
If you saw the 1959 ... This is what it would feel like in the passenger compartment;
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1959年版 これは旅客車の中にいるみたいな感覚です
05:19
that's acceleration profile. (Laughter)
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これは加速度のグラフです
05:22
And pulse system yield:
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パルスシステムの出力表です
05:24
we're looking at 20-kiloton yield for an effect for us of 10 million Newtons.
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20ktの核出力は我々には1000万ニュートンに相当します
05:28
Well, here we have a little problem,
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ここにちょっとした問題があります
05:30
the radiation doses at the crew station: 700 rads per shot. (Laughter)
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クルーステーションでの放射線量は照射毎に700ラジアンです
05:36
Fission yields during development:
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開発中の核分裂収率
05:38
they were hoping to get clean bombs -- they didn't.
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安全な爆弾を望んでいましたが失敗しました
05:42
Eyeburn: this is what happens to the people in Miami who are looking up. (Laughter)
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眼熱傷とはマイアミで太陽を見上げると発生するものです
05:45
Personnel compartment noise: that's not too bad;
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個人客室はそこまで悪くありませんが
05:49
it's very low frequencies, it's basically like these subwoofers.
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低周波のサブウーファーみたいなものがあります
05:52
And now we have ground hazard assessments
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発射台から何か打ち上げる際の
05:54
when you have a blow-up on the pad.
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地上有害性評価のこともあります
05:56
Finally, at the very end in 1964, NASA steps in and says,
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1964年 最終的にNASAは言いました
05:59
"OK, we'll support a feasibility study for a small version
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「よし サターンVと共に発射ができる
06:02
that could be launched with Saturn Vs in sections and pieced together."
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小型版への実現可能性の研究を支援しましょう」
06:06
So this is what NASA did, getting an
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これがNASAのものです 八人乗りの
06:12
eight man version that would go to Mars.
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火星を目指すものです
06:14
They liked it because the guys who kind of live there would be like, "It's just like
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彼らがこちらを気に入った理由は
06:16
living in a submarine."
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潜水艦の中みたいに生活ができるからです
06:18
This is crew compartment. It switches, so what's upside down
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この客員室は人口重力モードでは
06:21
is right side up when you go to artificial gravity mode.
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逆さにならず右側が上になります
06:23
The scientists were still going to go along;
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科学者の同伴は依存として必要で
06:25
they would take seven astronauts and seven scientists.
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宇宙飛行士とそれぞれ７人の構成です
06:27
This is a 20 man version for going to Jupiter:
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これは木星に行く20人乗りのものです
06:30
bunks, storm cellars, exercise room.
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寝台 シェルター 運動部屋もついてます
06:33
You know, it was going to be a nice long trip.
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これなら快適な旅になったことでしょう
06:36
The Air Force version: here we have a military version.
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こちらが軍作成の空軍のものです
06:39
This is the kind of stuff that's not been declassified,
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こちらは機密扱い解除を受けていません
06:42
just that people managed to sneak home and after,
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こっそりと持ち出されて まぁ
06:45
you know, on their deathbed basically gave me.
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死に際に私に渡ってきました
06:48
The sort of artist conceptions:
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これは芸術家のとある構想ですが
06:50
these are basically PowerPoint presentations
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これは基本的には40年前空軍に
06:53
given to the Air Force 40 years ago.
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進呈されたプレゼン資料です
06:55
Look at the little guys there outside the vehicle.
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車の外にいる小さな彼を見て下さい
07:01
And one part of NASA was interested in it
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NASA内で興味を示す方もいましたが
07:03
but the headquarters in NASA, they killed the project.
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本部側に葬り去られました
07:06
So finally at the end, we can
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これに続く試みは1965年まで
07:09
see the thing followed its sort of design path
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続けられましたが最終的には
07:12
right up to 1965 and then all those paths came to a halt.
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全ての道が閉ざされたわけです
07:16
Results: none.
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結果は？ なにもありません
07:18
This project is hereby terminated.
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計画はここで終了です
07:20
So that's the end. All I can say in closing is,
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お終いです 最後に私が言えることは
07:23
we heard yesterday that one of the 10 bad things that could happen to us
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昨日の話の通り 我々に降りかかる10の災難の一つは
07:27
is an asteroid with our name on it.
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名前の入りの隕石落下です
07:29
And one of the bad things that could happen to NASA
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そしてNASAに起こりうる災難の一つとは
07:32
is if that asteroid shows up with our name on it nine months out
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名前入り隕石が９か月連続で降り注ぎ
07:35
and everybody says, "Well, what are we going to do?"
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皆が「あぁ どうする どうする？」となった時に
07:38
And Orion is really one of the only, if not the only,
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事実 オリオンはもしかしたら何かできるかもしれない
07:42
off-the-shelf technologies that could do something. (Laughter)
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唯一の既製技術です
07:48
So I'm going to tell you the good news and the bad news.
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良い知らせと悪い知らせがあります
07:50
The good news is that NASA has a small, secret
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良い知らせとはNASAにはオリオンに関する なにか
07:55
contingency plan division that is looking at this,
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秘密の緊急対策部門がありオリオンの
07:58
trying to keep knowledge of Orion preserved in the event of such a misfortune.
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技術をこのような不運な出来事の時のため保全しているそうです
08:03
Maybe keep a few little bombs of plutonium on the side.
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プルトニウム爆弾でも少し隠しているんでしょうかね
08:06
That's the good news. The bad news is,
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これが良いニュースで 悪い方は
08:08
when I got in contact with these people
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ドキュメントをいただこうと私が
08:10
to try and get some documents from them,
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彼らに接触した際 彼らは私の持つ
08:12
they went crazy because I had all this stuff that they don't have,
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貴重なドキュメントに心奪われていました
08:15
and NASA purchased 1,759 pages of this stuff from me. (Laughter)
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NASAが1759ページ分の情報を私から買い上げました
08:20
So that's the state we're at: it's not very good.
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これが現状です 好ましくありませんね
08:24
(Applause)
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(拍手)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
George Dyson - Historian of scienceIn telling stories of technologies and the individuals who created them, George Dyson takes a clear-eyed view of our scientific past -- while illuminating what lies ahead.
Why you should listen
The development of the Aleutian kayak, its adaptation by Russians in the 18th and 19th centuries, and his own redevelopment of the craft in the 1970s was chronicled in George Dyson’s Baidarka: The Kayak of 1986. His 1997 Darwin Among the Machines: The Evolution of Global Intelligence (“the last book about the Internet written without the Internet”) explored the history and prehistory of digital computing and telecommunications as a manifestation of the convergent destiny of organisms and machines.
Project Orion: The True Story of the Atomic Spaceship, published in 2002, assembled first-person interviews and recently declassified documents to tell the story of a path not taken into space: a nuclear-powered spaceship whose objective was to land a party of 100 people on Mars four years before we landed two people on the Moon. Turing's Cathedral: The Origins of the Digital Universe, published in 2012, illuminated the transition from numbers that mean things to numbers that do things in the aftermath of World War II.
Dyson’s current project, Analogia, is a semi-autobiographical reflection on how analog computation is re-establishing control over the digital world.
George Dyson | Speaker | TED.com