TED2002
George Dyson: The story of Project Orion
乔治·戴森介绍猎户座计划
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乔治·戴森讲述猎户座计划。此计划旨在开发核动力飞船，五年内可带人类飞到土星。作为知情人同时又有秘密资料，乔治带来了原子时代的梦想。（注：NASA把重返月球的新一代航天器命名为“猎户座” 巧合?）
George Dyson - Historian of science
In telling stories of technologies and the individuals who created them, George Dyson takes a clear-eyed view of our scientific past -- while illuminating what lies ahead. Full bio
In telling stories of technologies and the individuals who created them, George Dyson takes a clear-eyed view of our scientific past -- while illuminating what lies ahead. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm a historian.
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我是一个历史学家。
00:14
Steve told us about the future of little technology;
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史蒂夫讲了一些未来的小科技。
00:17
I'm going to show you some of the past of big technology.
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我要讲的是过去的大科技。
00:21
This was a project to build a 4,000-ton nuclear bomb-propelled spaceship
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这就是，飞往土星和木星的4000吨级原子弹推进宇宙飞船。
00:27
and go to Saturn and Jupiter.
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这就是，飞往土星和木星的4000吨级原子弹推进宇宙飞船。
00:30
This took place in my childhood -- 1957 to '65.
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这还是我小时候的事儿呢 -- 大约1957年到1965年
00:34
It was deeply classified.
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这是高度机密。
00:36
I'm going to show you some stuff that not only has not been declassified,
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我要讲的不仅没有解密，
00:40
but has now been reclassified.
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而且还要再次保密。
00:42
(Laughter)
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（笑）
00:46
If all goes well, next year I'll be back and I'll have a lot more to show you,
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如果顺利的话，明年我再来讲更多的东西，
00:50
and if all doesn't go well, I'll be in jail like Wen Ho Lee.
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如果不顺利的话，估计我会像李文和一样被关起来了。（见李文和案）
00:53
(Laughter)
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（笑）
00:58
So, this ship was basically the size of the Marriott Hotel,
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飞船和万豪酒店差不多大，
01:02
a little taller and a little bigger.
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稍高点，稍大点。
01:04
And one of the people who worked on it in the beginning
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从一开始就参与其中的人
01:07
was my father, Freeman, there in the middle.
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就是我爸，弗利曼 -- 照片中间那个人。（弗里曼·戴森 Freeman Dyson，美籍英裔数学物理学家）
01:09
That's me and my sister, Esther, who's a frequent TEDster.
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这是我和我姐姐，Esther，TED的常客...（埃丝特·戴森，其个人净资产1999年统计为500亿美元）
01:12
I didn't like nuclear bomb-propelled spaceships.
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我不喜欢原子弹推进宇宙飞船。
01:15
I mean, I thought it was a great idea, but I started building kayaks.
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我是说我认为这是个好主意，所以我开始做皮艇。
01:18
So we had a few kayaks.
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我有几艘皮艇。
01:20
Just so you know, I am not Dr. Strangelove.
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我当然不是奇爱博士。（见电影“奇爱博士“ Mein Führer, I can walk. :-) ）
01:24
But all the time I was out there doing these strange kayak voyages
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不过每次驾驶这些奇怪的皮艇航行在地球上最美丽的地方，
01:27
in odd, beautiful parts of this planet,
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不过每次驾驶这些奇怪的皮艇航行在地球上最美丽的地方，
01:30
I always thought in the back of my mind about Project Orion,
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我心里总是想着猎户座计划，
01:33
and how my father and his friends were going to build these big ships.
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想着我爸和他的朋友打算如何建这些大号飞船。
01:37
They were really going to go, they were actually going to go.
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他们真的打算星际旅行，而且确实计划去。
01:40
Ted Taylor, who led the project, was going to take his children.
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项目带头人，泰德·泰勒，打算带上他的孩子。
01:42
My father was not going to take his children;
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我爸没想带他的孩子去。
01:44
that was one of the reasons we sort of had a falling out for a few years.
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所以这也是有几年，我们之间有点了闹翻的原因。
01:49
(Laughter)
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（笑）
01:51
The project began in '57 at General Atomics there.
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计划开于1957年，在通用原子公司（General Atomic）。
01:55
That's right on the coast at La Jolla.
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就在著名的La Jolla(拉霍亚)海滩。
01:57
Look at that central building right in the middle of the picture:
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看照片中间这栋建筑。
01:59
that's the 130-foot diameter library,
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直径40多米（130英尺）的图书馆。
02:03
that is exactly the size of the base of the spaceship.
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这大概和那艘飞船的底座差不多大。
02:06
So put that library at the bottom of that ship --
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可以把飞船安放在图书馆上面 --
02:08
that's how big the thing was going to be.
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这就是这艘飞船的大概尺寸。
02:10
It would take 2,000 or 3,000 bombs.
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需要用两三千枚核弹。
02:13
The people who worked on it were a lot of the Los Alamos people
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研究这个飞船的很多人是在Los Alamos搞氢弹的。
02:15
who had done the hydrogen bomb work.
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研究这个飞船的很多人是在Los Alamos搞氢弹的。
02:17
It was the first project funded by ARPA.
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猎户座计划是ARPA（高级研究计划署）资助的第一个项目。
02:19
That's the contract where ARPA gave the first million dollars
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这是合同，ARPA（高级研究计划署）拿出的第一笔百万美元启动资金。
02:22
to get this thing started.
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这是合同，ARPA（高级研究计划署）拿出的第一笔百万美元启动资金。
02:23
"Spaceship project officially begun. Job waiting for you. Dyson."
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“飞船计划正式启动。 工作在等着你。 戴森”
02:27
That's July '58.
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这是在1958年7月。
02:29
Two days later, the space traveler's manifesto explaining why --
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两天后：这些太空游客的宣言说明了一切 --
02:32
just like we heard yesterday -- why we need to go into space:
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就像我们昨天听到的一样 -- 为什么要去太空？
02:36
"trips to satellites of the outer planets. August 20, 1958."
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“前往带外行星的卫星旅行” -- 1958年8月20日。
02:40
These are the statistics of what would be the good places to go and stop. (Laughter)
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这是旅行的目的地和停留地的统计表。
02:44
Some of the sizes of the ships,
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各种尺寸的飞船，最大达到8百万吨级。
02:46
ranging all the way up to ship mass of 8 million tons,
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各种尺寸的飞船，最大达到8百万吨级。
02:49
so that was the outer extreme.
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这是个极端。
02:51
Here was version two: 2,000 bombs.
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这是版本二，两千个核弹。
02:56
These are five kiloton yield bombs about the size of small Volkswagens;
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核弹是5千吨当量炸弹，有小型大众汽车大小。
03:00
it would take 800 to get into orbit.
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要入轨需要8百枚。
03:03
Here we see a 10,000 ton ship
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这是一万吨级飞船，将运送一千三百吨往来土星。
03:06
will deliver 1,300 tons to Saturn and back;
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这是一万吨级飞船，将运送一千三百吨往来土星。
03:09
essentially a five year trip.
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需要五年的旅程。
03:11
Possible departure dates: October 1960 to February 1967. (Laughter)
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可能的启程日为：1960年10月到1967年2月。
03:15
This is trajectories going to Mars;
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这是到火星的轨线。
03:18
all this was done by hand with slide rules.
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这些都是用计算尺手算的。
03:20
The little Orion ship
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猎户座飞船如果用化学火箭推进的话需要多大，（图中火箭500米高）
03:21
and what it would take to do what Orion does with chemicals:
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猎户座飞船如果用化学火箭推进的话需要多大，（图中火箭500米高）
03:24
you have a ship the size of the Empire State Building.
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火箭大小和帝国大厦差不多。
03:26
NASA had no interest; they tried to kill the project.
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NASA不感兴趣，试图砍掉这个项目。
03:28
The people who supported it were the Air Force,
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只有空军支持这个计划，这意味着整个计划都是秘密。
03:30
which meant that it was all secret.
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只有空军支持这个计划，这意味着整个计划都是秘密。
03:32
And that's why when you get something declassified,
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这就是解密的文件。
03:34
that's what it looks like. (Laughter)
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这就是解密的文件。
03:37
Military weapon versions that were versions that carried
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军事武器版，这个版本的飞船携带
03:39
hydrogen bombs that could destroy half the planet.
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氢弹，可以摧毁半个地球。
03:41
There's another version there that sends retaliatory strikes at the Soviet Union.
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这是另一个版本，可以对苏联实施报复性打击
03:45
This is the real secret stuff: how to get directed energy explosions
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这是真正的秘密资料：如何实现定向爆炸，
03:49
so you're sending the energy of a nuclear explosion --
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这样不像普通炸药爆炸，核爆炸是定向到飞船的。
03:51
not like just a stick of dynamite,
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这样不像普通炸药爆炸，核爆炸是定向到飞船的。
03:53
but you're directing it at the ship.
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这样不像普通炸药爆炸，核爆炸是定向到飞船的。
03:55
And this is still a very active subject.
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定向爆炸仍然是一个非常活跃的学科。
03:57
It's quite dangerous,
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相当危险，
03:59
but I believe it's better to have dangerous things in the open
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不过我想公开危险的东西比隐藏要好一些。
04:01
than think you're going to keep them secret.
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不过我想公开危险的东西比隐藏要好一些。
04:03
This is what's happened at 600 microseconds.
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这是爆炸6百微秒后。
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The Air Force started to build smaller models and actually started doing this.
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空军方面确实开始建造小版本飞船。
04:10
The guys in La Jolla said, "We've got to get started now."
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在La Jolla海滩的家伙说：“我们该启动了。”
04:13
They built a high-explosive propelled model.
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他们造了一个高爆炸药推进模型。
04:15
These are stills from film footage that was saved by someone
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这是从一些影片上截下来的图片。
04:19
who was supposed to destroy it but didn't
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这些影片早该销毁，却被某些人藏在地下室40年。
04:21
and kept it in their basement for the last 40 years.
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这些影片早该销毁，却被某些人藏在地下室40年。
04:23
So, these are three-pound charges of C4;
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这是3磅C4炸药。
04:26
that's about 10 times what the guy had in his shoes. (Laughter)
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装药量是那家伙装在鞋里的10倍。（可能指 旅游鞋炸弹）
04:30
This is Ed Day putting ... So each of these coffee cans has three pounds of C4 in it.
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每个咖啡罐里有三磅C4炸药。
04:35
They're building a system that ejects these at quarter-second intervals.
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他们造了一个系统每四分之一秒弹出一个。
04:39
That's my dad in the sport coat there holding the briefcase.
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穿休闲装，拎着公文包的就是我爸。
04:42
So, they had a lot of fun doing this. But no children were allowed;
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可有意思了，不过他们不让小孩掺和。
04:45
my dad could tell me he was building a spaceship
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我爸只告诉我，他在造宇宙飞船，准备去土星，没告诉其他的。
04:48
and going to go to Saturn,
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我爸只告诉我，他在造宇宙飞船，准备去土星，没告诉其他的。
04:50
but he could not say anything more about it.
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我爸只告诉我，他在造宇宙飞船，准备去土星，没告诉其他的。
04:52
So all my life I have wanted to find this stuff out,
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所以我一直想搞明白，
04:54
and spent the last four years tracking these old guys down.
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花了四年时间追查这些老家伙。
04:56
These are stills from the video.
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这些也是视频截图。
04:58
Jeff Bezos kindly, yesterday, said
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昨天Jeff Bezos说他要把这些影片放到Amazon网站上。
05:01
he'll put this video up on the Amazon site -- some little clip of it. (Applause)
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昨天Jeff Bezos说他要把这些影片放到Amazon网站上。
05:04
So, thanks to him.
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非常感谢他。
05:06
They got quite serious about the engineering of this.
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他们非常认真的设计飞船。
05:08
The size of that mass, for us, is really large technology
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就飞船大小来说，这绝对是大科技。
05:12
in a way we're never going to go back to.
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我们永远不会再搞。
05:15
If you saw the 1959 ... This is what it would feel like in the passenger compartment;
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在1959年，这感觉就像旅客包厢。
05:19
that's acceleration profile. (Laughter)
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这是加速度分布图。
05:22
And pulse system yield:
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脉冲系统当量。
05:24
we're looking at 20-kiloton yield for an effect for us of 10 million Newtons.
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2万吨当量相当于一千万牛顿力。
05:28
Well, here we have a little problem,
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这儿出了小问题：成员辐射剂量 每次700rad（拉德）。
05:30
the radiation doses at the crew station: 700 rads per shot. (Laughter)
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这儿出了小问题：成员辐射剂量 每次700rad（拉德）。
05:36
Fission yields during development:
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裂变产额：
05:38
they were hoping to get clean bombs -- they didn't.
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他们想找到无污染炸弹，不过没有成功。
05:42
Eyeburn: this is what happens to the people in Miami who are looking up. (Laughter)
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眼部灼伤 -- 迈阿密盯着看的人都倒霉了。
05:45
Personnel compartment noise: that's not too bad;
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座舱。注意，还不错。
05:49
it's very low frequencies, it's basically like these subwoofers.
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噪音频率非常低，类似低音炮。
05:52
And now we have ground hazard assessments
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这是地面危害评估
05:54
when you have a blow-up on the pad.
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发射台上爆炸。
05:56
Finally, at the very end in 1964, NASA steps in and says,
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最终，1964年底，NASA介入
05:59
"OK, we'll support a feasibility study for a small version
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“好吧，我们支持小版本的可行性研究，可以用土星五号火箭分段发射上去。“
06:02
that could be launched with Saturn Vs in sections and pieced together."
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“好吧，我们支持小版本的可行性研究，可以用土星五号火箭分段发射上去。“
06:06
So this is what NASA did, getting an
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这是NASA设计的，八人火星旅行版。
06:12
eight man version that would go to Mars.
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这是NASA设计的，八人火星旅行版。
06:14
They liked it because the guys who kind of live there would be like, "It's just like
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他们喜欢这个设计，因为乘员有点像生活在潜艇里。
06:16
living in a submarine."
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他们喜欢这个设计，因为乘员有点像生活在潜艇里。
06:18
This is crew compartment. It switches, so what's upside down
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这是乘员舱。颠倒了这样可以顺利进入人工重力模式。
06:21
is right side up when you go to artificial gravity mode.
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这是乘员舱。颠倒了这样可以顺利进入人工重力模式。
06:23
The scientists were still going to go along;
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科学家还打算跟去，
06:25
they would take seven astronauts and seven scientists.
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准备搭载7个宇航员7个科学家。
06:27
This is a 20 man version for going to Jupiter:
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这是20人木星旅行版。
06:30
bunks, storm cellars, exercise room.
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双层铺位，防风地窖，运动室。
06:33
You know, it was going to be a nice long trip.
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应该是不错的长途旅行。
06:36
The Air Force version: here we have a military version.
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空军版。军用版本
06:39
This is the kind of stuff that's not been declassified,
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这些是没有解密的资料，
06:42
just that people managed to sneak home and after,
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有人私藏回家的，然后临死前交给我的。
06:45
you know, on their deathbed basically gave me.
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有人私藏回家的，然后临死前交给我的。
06:48
The sort of artist conceptions:
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这是艺术家构想图
06:50
these are basically PowerPoint presentations
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像Powerpoint幻灯片
06:53
given to the Air Force 40 years ago.
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40年前演示给空军看的。
06:55
Look at the little guys there outside the vehicle.
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注意这个小人，在飞船外。
07:01
And one part of NASA was interested in it
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NASA一部分人感兴趣，但是NASA总部砍掉了这个项目。
07:03
but the headquarters in NASA, they killed the project.
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NASA一部分人感兴趣，但是NASA总部砍掉了这个项目。
07:06
So finally at the end, we can
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最终
07:09
see the thing followed its sort of design path
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这是截止到1965年设计规划路径。
07:12
right up to 1965 and then all those paths came to a halt.
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之后的就都中止了。
07:16
Results: none.
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结果？ 没有。
07:18
This project is hereby terminated.
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项目由此中止。
07:20
So that's the end. All I can say in closing is,
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这就是结局。最后我要说的是，
07:23
we heard yesterday that one of the 10 bad things that could happen to us
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对我们来说10个坏消息之一是有一颗小行星以我们命名。
07:27
is an asteroid with our name on it.
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对我们来说10个坏消息之一是有一颗小行星以我们命名。
07:29
And one of the bad things that could happen to NASA
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对NASA来说坏消息是
07:32
is if that asteroid shows up with our name on it nine months out
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以我们名字命名的小行星9个月内撞到我们，
07:35
and everybody says, "Well, what are we going to do?"
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人们会说，“我们该怎么办呀？”
07:38
And Orion is really one of the only, if not the only,
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猎户座计划即使不是唯一的，也是现成的技术。
07:42
off-the-shelf technologies that could do something. (Laughter)
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猎户座计划即使不是唯一的，也是现成的技术。
07:48
So I'm going to tell you the good news and the bad news.
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所以我要告诉大家一个好消息和一个坏消息。
07:50
The good news is that NASA has a small, secret
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好消息是，NASA有一个秘密应急计划部门考虑这些，
07:55
contingency plan division that is looking at this,
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好消息是，NASA有一个秘密应急计划部门考虑这些，
07:58
trying to keep knowledge of Orion preserved in the event of such a misfortune.
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尽量保存猎户座计划的知识以应对灾难。
08:03
Maybe keep a few little bombs of plutonium on the side.
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可能还保存了一些核弹也说不定。
08:06
That's the good news. The bad news is,
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这是好消息。坏消息是，
08:08
when I got in contact with these people
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当我联系这些人要一些资料的时候
08:10
to try and get some documents from them,
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当我联系这些人要一些资料的时候
08:12
they went crazy because I had all this stuff that they don't have,
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他们很郁闷，因为我的资料比他们还全。
08:15
and NASA purchased 1,759 pages of this stuff from me. (Laughter)
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NASA从我这里买走了1759页的资料。
08:20
So that's the state we're at: it's not very good.
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这就是目前的状况。不太妙。
08:24
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
George Dyson - Historian of scienceIn telling stories of technologies and the individuals who created them, George Dyson takes a clear-eyed view of our scientific past -- while illuminating what lies ahead.
Why you should listen
The development of the Aleutian kayak, its adaptation by Russians in the 18th and 19th centuries, and his own redevelopment of the craft in the 1970s was chronicled in George Dyson’s Baidarka: The Kayak of 1986. His 1997 Darwin Among the Machines: The Evolution of Global Intelligence (“the last book about the Internet written without the Internet”) explored the history and prehistory of digital computing and telecommunications as a manifestation of the convergent destiny of organisms and machines.
Project Orion: The True Story of the Atomic Spaceship, published in 2002, assembled first-person interviews and recently declassified documents to tell the story of a path not taken into space: a nuclear-powered spaceship whose objective was to land a party of 100 people on Mars four years before we landed two people on the Moon. Turing's Cathedral: The Origins of the Digital Universe, published in 2012, illuminated the transition from numbers that mean things to numbers that do things in the aftermath of World War II.
Dyson’s current project, Analogia, is a semi-autobiographical reflection on how analog computation is re-establishing control over the digital world.
George Dyson | Speaker | TED.com