ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Christian Picciolini - Counter-extremism specialist
Christian Picciolini is dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism.

Why you should listen

After leaving the white supremacist skinhead movement he helped build in America during the 1980s and 90s, Christian Picciolini earned a degree in international relations from DePaul University. He launched Goldmill Group, a global media and counter-extremism consulting firm. In 2016, he won an Emmy Award for his role in producing an anti-hate advertising campaign aimed at helping people disengage from violent extremist groups. His life since leaving the white-supremacist movement over two decades ago has been dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism by founding such organizations as ExitUSA and Life After Hate.

Picciolini has spoken all over the world, sharing his unique and extensive knowledge, teaching all who are willing to learn about building greater peace through empathy and compassion. His involvement in the early American skinhead movement is chronicled in his memoir WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH: My Descent into America’s Most Violent Hate Movement—and How I Got Out (Hachette). He is co-developing a television docu-series based on his work helping people disengage from violent ideologies.

More profile about the speaker
Christian Picciolini | Speaker | TED.com
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Christian Picciolini: My descent into America's neo-Nazi movement -- and how I got out

Christian Picciolini: Meu declínio no movimento neonazista dos EUA e como saí

Filmed:
4,136,078 views

Aos 14 anos, Christian Picciolini passou de adolescente ingênuo a supremacista branco, e logo, a líder da primeira gangue de skinheads neonazistas dos Estados Unidos. Como ele se radicalizou e como, no final, saiu do movimento? Nesta palestra corajosa, Picciolini compartilha a solução surpreendente e nada intuitiva de odiar de todas as formas.
- Counter-extremism specialist
Christian Picciolini is dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
My journey away from violent extremism
began 22 years ago,
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Minha saída do extremismo
violento começou há 22 anos,
00:18
when I denounced racism
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quando denunciei o racismo
00:20
and left the American white
supremacist skinhead movement
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e saí do movimento skinhead
americano de supremacia branca
00:22
that I had helped build.
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que ajudei a construir.
00:24
(Cheers and applause)
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(Vivas) (Aplausos)
00:30
I was just 22 years old at the time,
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Eu tinha apenas 22 anos na época,
00:33
but I had already spent eight years,
from the time I was 14 years old,
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mas já havia passado 8 anos,
desde meus 14 anos,
00:37
as one of the earliest
and youngest members
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como um dos primeiros
e mais jovens membros
00:39
and an eventual leader within
America's most violent hate movement.
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e, por fim, líder dentro do movimento
de ódio mais violento dos EUA.
00:44
But I wasn't born into hate;
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Mas não nasci dentro do ódio;
00:47
in fact, it was quite the opposite.
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na verdade, foi bem o contrário.
00:52
I had a relatively normal childhood.
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Tive uma infância relativamente normal.
00:55
My parents are Italian immigrants
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Meus pais eram imigrantes italianos
00:57
who came to the United States
in the mid-1960s
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que vieram para os EUA
em meados da década de 1960
01:00
and settled on the South Side of Chicago,
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e se restabeleceram
na parte sul de Chicago,
01:03
where they eventually met,
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onde depois se conheceram
01:05
and opened a small beauty shop.
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e abriram uma pequena loja
de artigos de beleza.
01:08
Right after I was born,
things got a little bit more difficult.
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Logo após eu nascer, as coisas
ficaram um pouco mais difíceis.
01:11
They struggled to survive with raising
a young family and a new business,
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Eles lutavam para sobreviver cuidando
de uma família jovem e um novo negócio,
01:16
often working seven days a week,
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trabalhando, muitas vezes,
7 dias por semana, 14 horas por dia,
01:19
14 hours a day,
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01:21
taking on second and third jobs
just to earn a meager living.
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assumindo dois, três empregos
para garantir o básico para sobreviver.
01:25
And quality time with my parents
was pretty nonexistent.
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Era praticamente impossível a meus pais
terem tempo para passar comigo.
01:29
Even though I knew
they loved me very much,
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Mesmo sabendo que me amavam muito,
01:32
growing up, I felt abandoned.
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eu crescia me sentindo abandonado.
01:35
I was lonely, and I started to withdraw,
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Sentia-me solitário e comecei a me afastar
01:39
and then I started to resent my parents
and become very angry.
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e a ficar resentido com meus pais
e a ter muita raiva.
01:44
And as I was growing up,
through my teenage years,
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Conforme eu crescia,
passando pela adolescência,
comecei a tentar conseguir
a atenção de meus pais.
01:47
I started to act out to try and get
attention from my parents.
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01:53
And one day, when I was 14,
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Um dia, aos 14 anos,
eu estava fumando em um beco,
01:55
I was standing in an alley,
and I was smoking a joint,
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01:59
and a man who was twice my age,
with a shaved head and tall black boots,
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e um homem, com o dobro de minha idade,
cabeça raspada e botas pretas,
02:05
came up to me,
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surgiu na minha frente
02:07
and he snatched the joint from my lips.
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e arrancou o cigarro da minha boca.
02:10
Then he put his hand on my shoulder
and he looked me in the eyes,
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Ele colocou a mão no meu ombro,
olhou-me nos olhos
02:14
and he said,
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e disse:
02:16
"That's what the communists
and the Jews want you to do
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"Isso é o que os comunistas e os judeus
querem que você faça
para mantê-lo submisso".
02:19
to keep you docile."
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02:23
I was 14 years old,
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Eu tinha 14 anos.
Trocava cartões de beisebol
e assistia a séries de TV.
02:24
I'd been trading baseball cards
and watching "Happy Days" --
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02:27
I didn't really know what a Jew was.
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Nem sabia o que era um judeu.
02:29
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
02:31
It's true.
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É verdade.
02:32
And the only communist that I knew
was the bad Russian guy
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O único comunista que eu conhecia
era o cara russo malvado
02:36
in my favorite Rocky movie.
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de meu filme Rocky favorito.
02:38
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
02:40
And since I'm here
baring my soul with you,
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Já que estou aqui,
abrindo meu coração a vocês,
02:43
I can reveal that I did not even know
what the word "docile" meant.
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posso revelar que não sabia nem mesmo
o significado da palavra "submisso".
02:47
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
02:48
Dead serious.
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Sério.
02:50
But it was as if this man in this alley
had offered me a lifeline.
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Mas era como se o homem daquele beco
tivesse me atirado um salva-vidas.
02:55
For 14 years, I'd felt
marginalized and bullied.
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Por 14 anos, eu me senti
marginalizado e discriminado.
03:00
I had low self-esteem.
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Tinha baixa autoestima.
03:02
And frankly, I didn't know
who I was, where I belonged,
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Sinceramente, não sabia
quem eu era e qual era meu lugar,
03:06
or what my purpose was.
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ou meu propósito na vida.
03:08
I was lost.
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Eu estava perdido.
03:10
And overnight, because this man
had pulled me in,
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Da noite para o dia, pelo fato
de aquele homem ter me resgatado
03:14
and I had grabbed onto that lifeline
with every fiber of my being.
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e eu ter agarrado aquele salva-vidas
com todas as minhas forças,
03:19
I had gone from "Joanie Loves Chachi"
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deixei as séries de TV
03:24
to full-blown Nazi.
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para me tornar um completo nazista.
03:26
Overnight.
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Da noite para o dia.
03:29
I started to listen to the rhetoric
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Comecei a ouvir a retórica
03:32
and believe it.
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e a acreditar nela.
03:34
I started to watch very closely
as the leaders of this organization
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Comecei a ver bem de perto
como os líderes daquela organização,
03:38
would target vulnerable young people
who felt marginalized
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cujo alvo eram jovens vulneráveis
que se sentiam marginalizados,
03:44
and then draw them in
with promises of paradise
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os atraíam com promessas
03:48
that were broken.
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que não eram cumpridas.
03:51
And then I started to recruit myself.
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Então, comecei eu mesmo a recrutar,
03:55
I started to do that by making
white-power music.
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por meio da produção de música
sobre a supremacia branca.
04:00
And soon, I became the leader
of that infamous organization
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Logo me tornei o líder
dessa organização abominável,
04:05
that was led by that man in that alley
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liderada pelo homem
que encontrei naquele beco
04:08
who recruited me that day,
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e que me recrutou naquele dia:
04:10
who was America's first neo-Nazi skinhead
and who had radicalized me.
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o primeiro skinhead neonazista
americano que me radicalizou.
04:15
For the next eight years,
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Nos oito anos seguintes,
04:17
I believed the lies that I had been fed.
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acreditei nas mentiras que me contaram.
04:21
And though I saw
no evidence of it whatsoever,
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Embora não visse evidência alguma
do que me contaram,
04:24
I didn't hesitate to blame
every Jewish person in the world
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eu não hesitava em culpar
cada judeu do mundo
04:28
for what I thought was a white,
European genocide
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pelo que considerava ser
um genocídio de brancos europeus,
04:33
being promoted by them
through a multiculturalist agenda.
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promovido por eles por meio
de uma pauta multiculturalista.
04:38
I blamed people of color
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Eu culpava as pessoas de cor
04:40
for the crime and violence
and the drugs in the city,
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pelo crime, pela violência
e pelas drogas na cidade,
04:45
completely neglecting the fact
that I was committing acts of violence
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ignorando completamente o fato
de que eu cometia atos de violência
04:49
on a daily basis,
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diariamente,
04:51
and that in many cases,
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e que, em muitos casos,
04:53
it was white supremacists
who were funneling drugs
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eram os supremacistas brancos
que distribuíam as drogas
04:56
into the inner cities.
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no centro das cidades.
04:58
And I blamed immigrants
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Eu culpava os imigrantes
05:01
for taking jobs from white Americans,
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por tirar os empregos
dos brancos americanos,
05:04
completely neglecting the fact that
my parents were hardworking immigrants
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ignorando completamente o fato de que
meus pais eram trabalhadores imigrantes
05:09
who struggled to survive,
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que lutavam para sobreviver,
05:13
despite not getting help
from anybody else.
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apesar de não conseguirem
ajuda de ninguém.
05:17
For the next eight years,
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Nos oito anos seguintes,
05:20
I saw friends die,
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vi amigos morrerem,
05:23
I saw others go to prison
and inflict untold pain
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outros serem presos
e inúmeras vítimas
e suas famílias serem torturadas.
05:27
on countless victims
and their families' lives.
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05:31
I heard horrific stories
from young women in the movement,
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Ouvi histórias terríveis
de mulheres do movimento,
05:35
who'd been brutally raped by the very men
they were conditioned to trust,
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brutalmente estupradas pelos mesmos homens
em quem foram induzidas a confiar.
05:41
and I myself committed acts
of violence against people,
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Eu mesmo cometi atos
de violência contra pessoas
05:45
solely for the color of their skin,
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somente pela cor da pele,
pela orientação sexual,
05:47
who they loved,
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05:49
or the god that they prayed to.
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ou o deus em quem acreditavam.
05:53
I stockpiled weapons for what I thought
was an upcoming race war.
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Eu armazenava armas para o que
eu considerava uma guerra racial iminente.
05:57
I went to six high schools;
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Frequentei seis escolas;
05:59
I was kicked out of four of them,
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fui expulso de quatro delas,
de uma das quais, duas vezes.
06:00
one of them, twice.
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06:03
And 25 years ago, I wrote
and performed racist music
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Há 25 anos, compus
e toquei música racista,
06:10
that found its way
to the internet decades later
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que chegou à internet décadas depois
06:12
and partially inspired
a young white nationalist
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e de certa forma inspirou
um jovem nacionalista branco
06:16
to walk into a sacred Charleston,
South Carolina, church
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a entrar num templo sagrado
de Charleston, na Carolina do Sul,
06:20
and senselessly massacre
nine innocent people.
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e massacrar nove pessoas inocentes.
06:28
But then my life changed.
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Mas, então, minha vida mudou.
06:31
At 19 years old, I met a girl
who was not in the movement,
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Aos 19 anos, conheci uma garota
que não fazia parte do movimento
06:35
who didn't have a racist bone in her body,
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e não era nada racista.
06:39
and I fell in love with her.
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Eu me apaixonei por ela.
06:42
And at 19, we got married,
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Aos 19, nós nos casamos
06:44
and we had our first son.
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e tivemos nosso primeiro filho.
06:48
And when I held my son in my arms
in the delivery room that day,
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Quando segurei meu filho nos braços
naquele dia, na maternidade,
06:52
not only did I reconnect
with some of the innocence that I had lost
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não apenas me reconectei com parte
da inocência que eu havia perdido
06:57
at 14 years old,
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aos 14 anos,
06:59
but it also began to challenge
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mas aquilo também começou
a me fazer refletir
07:01
the very important things that drew
me to the movement to begin with:
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sobre as questões importantes
que me levaram ao movimento,
07:05
identity, community and purpose --
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identidade, comunidade e propósito,
07:08
things that I had been
struggling with as a young boy.
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coisas que mexiam comigo
quando ainda jovem.
07:11
And now, I struggled with the concept
of who I was again.
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Eu passei a questionar
novamente quem eu era.
07:17
Was I this neo-Nazi hatemonger,
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Eu era um semeador
de discórdia neonazista,
07:22
or was I a caring father and husband?
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ou um pai e marido carinhoso?
07:26
Was my community the one
that I had manufactured around me
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Minha comunidade era aquela
que eu havia construído ao meu redor
07:30
to boost my own ego,
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para alimentar meu próprio ego,
07:32
because I felt self-hatred for myself
and I wanted to project it onto others,
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pelo fato de eu sentir ódio por mim mesmo
e querer projetar isso nos outros,
07:38
or was it the one
that I had physically given life to?
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ou era aquela que eu havia
fisicamente gerado?
07:43
Was my purpose to scorch the earth
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Meu propósito era destruir o planeta
07:48
or was it to make it
a better place for my family?
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ou torná-lo um lugar
melhor para minha família?
07:52
And suddenly, like a ton of bricks hit me,
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De repente, era como se uma tonelada
de tijolos tivesse me atingido,
07:57
I became very confused with
who I'd been for the last eight years.
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e fiquei bem confuso em relação a quem
eu tinha sido naqueles últimos oito anos.
08:04
And if only I'd been brave enough
to walk away at that moment,
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Se eu tivesse sido corajoso o bastante
para sair naquele momento,
08:07
to understand what the struggle was
that was happening inside of me,
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para entender minha luta interior,
08:13
then maybe tragedy
could have been averted.
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talvez a tragédia
pudesse ter sido evitada.
08:17
Instead, I did compromise.
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Em vez disso, assumi um compromisso.
08:19
I took myself off the streets
for the benefit of my family,
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Deixei as ruas pelo bem da minha família
08:23
because I was nervous that maybe
I could go to jail or end up dead,
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porque eu estava preocupado
com a possibilidade
de ser preso ou acabar morto,
08:27
and they would have to fend
for themselves.
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e eles precisarem se virar sozinhos.
08:30
So I stepped back as a leader,
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Então, deixei de ser líder
e abri uma loja de discos
08:31
and instead I opened a record store
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08:35
that I was going to sell
white-power music in, of course,
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para vender, é claro,
música da supremacia branca
08:39
because I was importing it in from Europe.
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que eu importava da Europa.
08:42
But I knew that if I was just
a racist store selling racist music
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Mas eu sabia que, se fosse apenas
uma loja racista vendendo música racista,
08:46
the community would not
allow me to be there.
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a comunidade não me deixaria ficar lá.
08:49
So I decided I was going to also
stock the shelves with other music,
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Decidi, então, abastecer
as prateleiras com outro tipo de música,
08:54
like punk rock and heavy metal
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como punk rock, "heavy metal"
08:56
and hip-hop.
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e hip-hop.
08:58
And while the white-power music
that I was selling
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Embora a música de supremacia
branca que eu vendia
09:01
was 75 percent of my gross revenue,
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correspondesse a 75% de minha renda bruta,
09:03
because people were driving in
from all over the country to buy it
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porque as pessoas vinham
de todo o país para comprá-la
09:07
from the only store that was selling it,
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da única loja que a vendia,
09:10
I also had customers come in
to buy the other music.
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eu também tinha clientes que entravam
para comprar outro tipo de música
09:15
And eventually, they started
to talk to me.
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e que depois começaram a conversar comigo.
09:19
One day, a young black teen came in,
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Um dia, entrou um adolescente negro
09:23
and he was visibly upset.
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visivelmente triste.
09:27
And I decided to ask him what was wrong.
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Decidi lhe perguntar
o que havia de errado.
09:30
And he told me that his mother
had been diagnosed with breast cancer.
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Ele me disse que sua mãe havia sido
diagnosticada com câncer de mama.
09:35
And suddenly, this young black teenager,
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De repente, esse adolescente negro,
09:38
who I'd never had a meaningful
conversation or interaction with,
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com quem nunca tive uma conversa
ou interação significativa,
09:43
I was able to connect with,
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fui capaz de me conectar com ele,
09:45
because my own mother
had been diagnosed with breast cancer,
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porque minha mãe também havia sido
diagnosticada com câncer de mama,
09:49
and I could feel his pain.
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e pude sentir a dor dele.
09:52
On another occasion, a gay couple
came in with their son,
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Em outra ocasião, um casal gay
entrou na loja com o filho,
09:56
and it was undeniable to me
that they loved their son
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e ficou óbvio para mim
que eles amavam o filho
10:01
in the same profound ways
that I loved mine.
167
589417
3544
com o mesmo amor profundo
com que eu amava o meu filho.
10:06
And suddenly, I couldn't rationalize
or justify the prejudice
168
594233
4844
De repente, eu não conseguia mais
defender ou justificar o preconceito
10:11
that I had in my head.
169
599101
1434
em minha mente.
Decidi retirar do acervo da loja
a música de supremacia branca
10:13
I decided to pull the white-power
music from the inventory
170
601869
2812
10:16
when I became too embarrassed
to sell it in front of my new friends.
171
604705
3359
quando fiquei envergonhado demais
de vender na frente de meus novos amigos.
10:20
And of course, the store
couldn't sustain itself,
172
608929
2355
É claro que a loja não conseguiu
se manter, e tive que fechá-la.
10:23
so I had to close it.
173
611308
1311
10:25
At that same time, I lost
nearly everything in my life.
174
613343
4631
Ao mesmo tempo, perdi quase tudo na vida.
10:30
I used it as an opportunity to walk away
175
618484
2504
Usei isso como uma oportunidade
para me afastar
10:33
from the movement that
I'd been a part of for eight years,
176
621012
2858
do movimento do qual eu havia
participado por oito anos,
10:35
the only identity, community and purpose
that I'd really known for most of my life.
177
623894
4402
a única identidade, comunidade e propósito
que havia conhecido
durante a maior parte da minha vida.
10:40
So I had nobody.
178
628949
1586
Então, eu não tinha ninguém.
10:43
I lost my livelihood
because I closed the store.
179
631731
2596
Perdi meu sustento porque fechei a loja.
10:46
I didn't have a great relationship
with my parents, even though they tried.
180
634351
3986
Não tinha um ótimo relacionamento
com meus pais, embora eles tentassem.
10:50
And my wife and children left me,
181
638891
1997
Minha esposa e meus filhos me deixaram,
10:52
because I hadn't left the movement
and disengaged quickly enough.
182
640912
3665
porque eu não havia deixado o movimento
e me livrado rápido o bastante.
10:58
And suddenly,
183
646040
1184
De repente,
11:01
I didn't know who I was again,
184
649117
1931
não sabia mais quem eu era,
11:03
or where I fit in
185
651072
1260
onde me encaixava,
11:05
or what my purpose was supposed to be.
186
653044
2370
ou qual era meu propósito.
11:08
I was miserable inside,
187
656034
2317
Fiquei arrasado por dentro
11:10
and I often woke up in the morning
188
658959
2955
e, muitas vezes, acordava de manhã
11:13
wishing that I hadn't.
189
661938
1484
desejando não ter acordado.
11:17
About five years in,
190
665590
1740
Uns cinco anos depois disso,
11:19
one of the few friends that I had
was concerned about my well-being,
191
667354
3846
uma de minhas poucas amigas,
preocupada com meu bem-estar,
11:23
and she came to me and she said,
192
671224
1883
chegou para mim e disse:
11:25
"You need to do something,
because I don't want to see you die."
193
673131
3359
"Você precisa fazer alguma coisa,
porque não quero que você morra".
11:29
And she suggested that I go
apply for a job where she worked,
194
677982
3628
Ela sugeriu que eu me candidatasse
a um emprego onde ela trabalhava,
11:33
at a company called IBM.
195
681634
1799
em uma empresa chamada IBM.
11:37
Yeah, I thought she was crazy, too.
196
685158
2053
Sim, também achei
que ela havia enlouquecido.
11:39
(Laughter)
197
687235
1685
(Risos)
11:40
Here I was, a closeted ex-Nazi
covered in hate tattoos.
198
688944
4575
Lá estava eu, um ex-nazista
coberto por tatuagens de ódio.
11:45
I didn't go to college.
199
693543
1232
Não tinha feito faculdade.
11:46
I'd been kicked out of multiple
high schools multiple times.
200
694799
4075
Fui expulso de várias escolas
inúmeras vezes.
11:52
I didn't even own a computer.
201
700071
1599
Não tinha nem mesmo um computador.
11:55
But I went in,
202
703384
1256
Mas fui até lá
11:56
and somehow, miraculously, I got the job.
203
704664
3630
e, de algum modo, milagrosamente,
consegui o emprego.
12:01
I was thrilled.
204
709636
1566
Fiquei animado.
12:04
And then I became terrified to learn
205
712218
2637
Então, fiquei apavorado ao descobrir
12:06
that they'd actually be putting me
back at my old high school,
206
714879
3561
que, na verdade, haviam me colocado
de volta em minha velha escola,
12:10
the same one I got kicked out of twice,
207
718464
2475
a mesma da qual fui expulso duas vezes,
12:13
to install their computers.
208
721892
1449
para instalar os computadores.
12:16
This was a high school
where I had committed acts of violence
209
724483
3507
Era a escola em que
eu havia cometido atos de violência
12:20
against students, against faculty;
210
728014
2452
contra os alunos e o corpo docente,
12:22
where I had protested out in front
of the school for equal rights for whites
211
730490
4140
protestado em frente à escola
por direitos iguais para os brancos
12:26
and even had a sit-in in the cafeteria
212
734654
3079
e feito até mesmo um ato
de ocupação na cafeteria
12:29
to try and demand a white student union.
213
737757
2494
defendendo a criação
de um centro acadêmico branco.
12:34
And of course, as karma would have it,
214
742039
2608
É claro que, como um carma,
12:37
within the first couple of hours,
215
745289
1835
nas primeiras horas,
12:39
who walks right by me
but Mr. Johnny Holmes,
216
747676
3922
vem em minha direção
o sr. Johnny Holmes,
12:43
the tough black security guard
I had gotten in a fistfight with,
217
751622
3386
o segurança negro rigoroso com quem
eu tinha me envolvido em uma briga,
12:48
that got me kicked out the second time
218
756016
2040
que me expulsou da segunda vez
12:50
and led out in handcuffs from the school.
219
758080
2414
e me retirou algemado da escola.
12:53
He didn't recognize me,
220
761763
1615
Ele não me reconheceu,
12:56
but I saw him,
221
764251
1232
mas eu o vi
e congelei, não sabia o que fazer.
12:58
and I didn't know what to do.
222
766404
1402
12:59
I was frozen; I was this grown man now,
years out of the movement,
223
767830
3643
Eu era esse homem adulto agora,
anos fora do movimento,
13:03
and I was sweating and I was trembling.
224
771497
2081
e estava suando e tremendo.
13:06
But I decided I had to do something.
225
774533
2154
Mas decidi que tinha
que fazer alguma coisa,
13:09
And I decided I needed to suffer
under the weight of my past,
226
777902
3799
que precisava sofrer
as consequências pelo que fiz,
13:13
because for five years
I had tried to outrun it.
227
781725
2671
porque, durante cinco anos,
tentei superar isso.
13:17
I'd tried to make new friends
and cover my tattoos with long sleeves,
228
785105
3304
Tentei fazer novos amigos e cobrir
as tatuagens com mangas compridas,
13:20
and I wouldn't admit it
229
788433
1167
e eu não admitia isso,
porque tinha medo de ser julgado
13:21
because I was afraid of being judged
230
789624
1822
13:23
the same way I had judged other people.
231
791470
2241
da mesma forma que eu havia
julgado as outras pessoas.
13:26
Well, I decided I was going to chase
Mr. Holmes out to the parking lot --
232
794862
3984
Decidi que iria ao estacionamento,
atrás do sr. Holmes,
13:30
probably not the smartest
decision that I made.
233
798870
2503
o que talvez não tenha sido
a decisão mais inteligente.
13:33
(Laughter)
234
801397
1271
(Risos)
13:34
But when I found him,
he was getting into his car,
235
802692
2514
Quando o encontrei,
ele estava entrando no carro,
13:37
and I tapped him on the shoulder.
236
805230
1973
e coloquei a mão em seu ombro.
13:39
And when he turned around
and he recognized me,
237
807227
3156
Quando ele se virou e me reconheceu,
13:42
he took a step back because he was afraid.
238
810407
2567
ele recuou porque ficou com medo.
13:46
And I didn't know what to say.
239
814907
1627
Eu não sabia o que dizer.
13:50
Finally, the words came out of my mouth,
and all I could think to say was,
240
818088
4040
Finalmente, as palavras saíram da boca,
e tudo o que pude pensar em dizer foi:
13:54
"I'm sorry."
241
822152
1161
"Me desculpe".
13:56
And he embraced me,
242
824096
1476
Ele me abraçou,
13:58
and he forgave me.
243
826391
1429
me perdoou
14:01
And he encouraged me to forgive myself.
244
829877
2966
e me incentivou a perdoar a mim mesmo.
14:06
He recognized that it wasn't the story
of some broken go-nowhere kid
245
834073
6090
Reconheceu que aquela não era a história
de um garoto arrasado e sem rumo
14:12
who was going to just
join a gang and go to prison.
246
840187
3016
que acabaria em uma gangue ou na prisão.
14:15
He knew that this was the story
of every young person who was vulnerable,
247
843227
4523
Ele sabia que era a história
de todo jovem vulnerável
14:19
who was searching for identity,
community and purpose,
248
847774
2808
à procura de identidade,
comunidade e propósito,
14:22
and then hit a wall
249
850606
1406
que encontrou um obstáculo
e não pôde superá-lo,
14:24
and was unable to find it
250
852036
1722
14:25
and went down a dark path.
251
853782
1747
caindo em um caminho sombrio.
14:29
And he made me promise one thing,
252
857482
2093
Ele me fez prometer uma coisa:
14:31
that I would tell my story
to whoever would listen.
253
859599
3228
que eu contaria minha história
a todos que quisessem ouvi-la.
14:34
That was 18 years ago,
254
862851
1582
Isso foi há 18 anos,
e tenho feito isso desde então.
14:36
and I've been doing it ever since.
255
864457
1798
14:38
(Applause)
256
866737
4874
(Aplausos)
Vocês devem estar se perguntando agora:
14:49
You might be asking yourself right now:
257
877309
1968
"Como um bom garoto,
filho de imigrantes trabalhadores,
14:51
How does a good kid from
a hardworking immigrant family
258
879301
3022
14:54
end up going down such a dark path?
259
882347
2843
acaba caindo no mau caminho?"
14:57
One word: potholes.
260
885214
2680
Uma palavra: fossas.
15:00
That's right. Potholes.
261
888508
1718
Isso mesmo: fossas.
15:02
I had a lot of potholes when I was kid.
262
890250
2533
Tive muitas fossas quando era garoto.
15:05
We all had them --
263
893582
1545
Todos nós já tivemos:
15:07
you know, the things in life that we hit
264
895151
2870
as coisas pelas quais passamos na vida
15:10
that invariably just kind of
nudge us off our path,
265
898045
2926
e que, vez por outra,
acabam nos tirando do caminho
15:12
and if they remain unresolved
266
900995
1682
e que, se permanecem não resolvidas,
15:15
or untreated
267
903442
1239
não tratadas,
15:17
or not dealt with,
268
905697
1421
ou não cuidadas,
15:19
sometimes we can get dangerously lost
down pretty dark corridors.
269
907792
3763
podem, às vezes, nos deixar em perigo,
perdidos em corredores muito escuros.
15:24
Potholes can be things like trauma,
270
912228
2183
As fossas podem ser coisas como trauma,
15:26
abuse, unemployment,
271
914435
2417
maus-tratos, desemprego,
15:29
neglect,
272
917667
1159
negligência,
15:31
untreated mental health conditions,
273
919652
2192
problemas de saúde mental não tratados,
15:33
even privilege.
274
921868
1191
até mesmo privilégios.
15:35
And if we hit enough potholes
on our journey in life,
275
923942
3148
Se nos depararmos com muitas fossas
em nossa jornada pela vida,
15:39
and we don't have the resources
or the help to navigate around them
276
927696
3740
e não tivermos recursos
nem ajuda para passar por isso
15:43
or to pull us out,
277
931460
1217
ou para nos tirar disso,
bem, às vezes, pessoas boas
acabam fazendo coisas ruins.
15:46
well, sometimes good people
end up doing bad things.
278
934184
3173
15:52
One such person
who had potholes is Darrell.
279
940026
3139
Uma dessas pessoas
que tinha fossas era Darrell.
15:55
Darrell is from upstate New York.
280
943189
1791
Darrell é do norte do estado de Nova York.
15:57
He had read my memoir,
281
945495
2125
Ele tinha lido minha biografia,
15:59
and he was really upset about the ending.
282
947644
2697
e ficou muito triste com o final dela.
16:02
You see, I'd gotten out of the movement
283
950365
1906
Eu tinha saído do movimento
e ele continuava lá.
16:04
and he was still in.
284
952295
1430
16:05
And he emailed me and he said,
285
953749
3707
Ele me enviou um e-mail e disse:
16:09
"I didn't really like the way
that turned out."
286
957480
2338
"Não gostei da maneira
como ficaram as coisas".
16:11
And I said, "Well, I'm sorry."
287
959842
1714
Eu disse: "Bem, lamento".
16:13
(Laughter)
288
961580
1629
(Risos)
16:15
"But if you want to talk about it,
we could certainly do that."
289
963233
2991
"Mas, se quiser conversar sobre isso,
com certeza poderemos".
16:18
And after a couple of weeks
of going back and forth with Darrell,
290
966248
3218
Após algumas semanas
de idas e vindas com Darrell,
descobri que ele era um militar veterano
de 31 anos, que havia sido ferido
16:21
I learned he was a 31-year-old
military veteran who had been injured
291
969490
5080
16:26
and was really angry about
not being able to go to Afghanistan
292
974594
3739
e estava muito bravo
por não poder ir ao Afeganistão
para matar muçulmanos.
16:30
to kill Muslims.
293
978357
1301
16:32
And one day on the phone,
294
980741
1325
Um dia, ao telefone,
16:34
he told me that he had seen
a Muslim man in the park praying,
295
982090
4189
ele me disse que tinha visto
um muçulmano rezando no parque
16:38
and that all he wanted to do
was kick him in the face.
296
986303
3887
e tudo que queria fazer
era chutar a cara dele.
16:43
I flew to Buffalo the next day,
297
991377
1749
Viajei para Buffalo no dia seguinte,
16:45
and I sat down with Darrell,
298
993968
1674
sentei com Darrell
16:48
and I asked him,
299
996515
1192
e lhe perguntei:
16:50
"Have you ever met
a Muslim person before?"
300
998343
3205
"Você já conheceu um muçulmano antes?"
16:54
And he said, "No!
301
1002168
1546
Ele disse: "Não!
16:55
Why the hell would I want to do that?
302
1003738
1831
Por que eu iria querer fazer isso?
Eles são maus, não quero nada com eles".
16:57
They're evil. I don't want
anything to do with them."
303
1005593
2549
17:01
I said, "OK."
304
1009067
1430
Eu disse: "Tudo bem".
17:02
So I excused myself,
and I went into the bathroom
305
1010521
2422
Então, eu me desculpei e fui ao banheiro.
17:04
and I took my phone out in the bathroom,
306
1012967
2234
Peguei meu telefone
17:07
and I Googled the local mosque,
307
1015225
1893
e procurei no Google a mesquita local,
17:09
and I called them very quietly
from the bathroom,
308
1017977
2287
e liguei para eles
em silêncio no banheiro.
Eu disse: "Com licença, imame,
preciso de um favor.
17:12
and I said, "Excuse me,
imam, I need a favor.
309
1020288
3958
17:16
I have a Christian man
310
1024270
1151
Conheço um cristão
que adoraria aprender mais
sobre sua religião".
17:17
who would really love to learn more
about your religion."
311
1025445
2806
(Risos)
17:20
(Laughter)
312
1028275
2685
17:22
"Do you mind if we stop by?"
313
1030984
1738
"Você se importa se passarmos aí?"
17:26
Well, it took some convincing
for Darrell to go,
314
1034278
2714
Levou um tempo para convencer Darrell,
17:29
but finally we got there,
315
1037016
2002
mas finalmente chegamos lá.
17:31
and when I knocked on the door,
316
1039042
1506
Quando bati na porta,
17:32
the imam said he only had
15 minutes left for us,
317
1040572
3090
o imame disse que só tinha
15 minutos para nos atender,
porque estava se preparando
para uma reunião de orações.
17:35
because he was preparing
for a prayer service.
318
1043686
2550
17:38
I said, "We'll take it."
319
1046260
1197
Eu disse: "Aceitamos".
17:40
We went in,
320
1048252
1158
Nós entramos
17:41
and two and a half hours later,
we came out after hugging and crying
321
1049434
5183
e, duas horas e meia depois, saímos
depois de nos abraçarmos e chorarmos
17:46
and, very strangely,
bonding over Chuck Norris for some reason.
322
1054641
3972
e de modo muito estranho ficarmos amigos
falando sobre Chuck Norris
por algum motivo.
17:50
(Laughter)
323
1058637
1050
(Risos)
17:51
I don't know what it was about that,
324
1059711
1932
Não sei o que foi aquilo,
mas foi o que aconteceu.
17:53
but that's what happened.
325
1061667
1392
17:56
And I'm happy to say now
that Darrell and the imam,
326
1064459
3100
Fico feliz em dizer agora
que Darrell e o imame
17:59
you can often find them
at the local falafel stand,
327
1067583
2436
podem ser vistos
na barraca de falafel local,
18:02
having lunch together.
328
1070043
1615
almoçando juntos.
(Aplausos)
18:03
(Applause)
329
1071682
3765
18:12
You see, it's our disconnection
from each other.
330
1080418
2541
Vejam, trata-se
de uma desconexão entre nós.
18:14
Hatred is born of ignorance.
331
1082983
2243
O ódio nasce da ignorância.
18:17
Fear is its father,
and isolation is its mother.
332
1085250
4079
O pai dela é o medo,
e a mãe é o isolamento.
18:21
When we don't understand something,
we tend to be afraid of it,
333
1089353
3977
Quando não compreendemos algo,
temos a tendência de ficar com medo,
18:25
and if we keep ourselves from it,
334
1093354
1719
e, se nos afastarmos,
18:27
that fear grows, and sometimes,
it turns into hatred.
335
1095097
3147
esse medo aumenta
e, às vezes, se transforma em ódio.
18:31
Since I've left the movement,
I've helped over a hundred people
336
1099120
2999
Desde que saí do movimento,
ajudei mais de 100 pessoas
a se livrarem dos movimentos extremistas,
de grupos supremacistas brancos,
18:34
disengage from extremist movements,
from white supremacist groups --
337
1102143
3318
18:37
(Applause)
338
1105485
3810
(Aplausos)
18:46
to even jihadist groups.
339
1114278
1526
e até de grupos jihadistas.
18:47
And the way I do that
is not by arguing with them,
340
1115828
4557
Não faço isso discutindo com eles,
18:52
not by debating them,
341
1120409
1517
nem debatendo,
18:53
not by even telling them they're wrong,
342
1121950
2289
nem lhes dizendo que estão errados,
18:56
even though, boy, I want to sometimes.
343
1124263
2233
mesmo que às vezes eu quisesse.
18:58
I don't do that.
344
1126520
1274
Não faço isso.
19:00
Instead, I don't push them away.
345
1128334
2528
Pelo contrário: não os afasto,
mas os trago para perto
19:02
I draw them in closer,
346
1130886
1635
19:05
and I listen very closely
for their potholes,
347
1133220
4363
e escuto com muita atenção às suas fossas
19:10
and then I begin to fill them in.
348
1138345
1669
e começo, então, a preenchê-las.
19:12
I try to make people more resilient,
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2256
Tento tornar as pessoas mais fortes,
19:14
more self-confident,
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1504
mais autoconfiantes,
19:16
more able to have skills
to compete in the marketplace
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4029
mais capazes de terem habilidades
para concorrer no mercado de trabalho
19:20
so that they don't have
to blame the other,
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para não terem que culpar o outro,
19:24
the other that they've never met.
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que nunca conheceram.
19:27
I'd like to just leave you
with one last thing before I go.
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3800
Antes de ir, gostaria de deixar
a vocês uma última coisa.
19:32
Of all the people I've worked with,
they will all tell you the same thing.
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Todas as pessoas com quem trabalhei
lhes contarão a mesma história.
19:36
One, they became extremists
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3592
Primeiro, elas se tornaram extremistas
19:40
because they wanted to belong,
not because of ideology or dogma.
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3834
porque queriam pertencer,
não por causa de ideologia ou dogma.
19:44
And second, what brought them out
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2628
E segundo, o que as tirou de lá
19:48
was receiving compassion
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1902
foi receber compaixão
19:50
from the people
they least deserved it from,
360
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2343
das pessoas de quem elas menos esperavam,
19:53
when they least deserved it.
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1653
quando menos a mereciam.
19:54
(Applause)
362
1182924
2097
(Aplausos)
19:57
So I would like
to leave you with a challenge:
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1185045
2310
Gostaria, então, de deixar
um desafio a vocês:
19:59
go out there today, tomorrow --
hopefully every day --
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3506
saiam hoje, amanhã -
espero que todos os dias -
20:04
find somebody that you think
is undeserving of your compassion
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1192052
4672
encontrem alguém que vocês acham
que não merece sua compaixão
20:08
and give it to them,
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1196748
1184
e lhe ofereça compaixão,
20:10
because I guarantee you,
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1389
porque garanto a vocês que são
essas pessoas que mais precisam.
20:12
they're the ones who need it the most.
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1908
20:14
Thank you very much.
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1312
Muito obrigado.
20:15
(Applause)
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1963
(Aplausos)
Translated by Maurício Kakuei Tanaka
Reviewed by Leonardo Silva

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Christian Picciolini - Counter-extremism specialist
Christian Picciolini is dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism.

Why you should listen

After leaving the white supremacist skinhead movement he helped build in America during the 1980s and 90s, Christian Picciolini earned a degree in international relations from DePaul University. He launched Goldmill Group, a global media and counter-extremism consulting firm. In 2016, he won an Emmy Award for his role in producing an anti-hate advertising campaign aimed at helping people disengage from violent extremist groups. His life since leaving the white-supremacist movement over two decades ago has been dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism by founding such organizations as ExitUSA and Life After Hate.

Picciolini has spoken all over the world, sharing his unique and extensive knowledge, teaching all who are willing to learn about building greater peace through empathy and compassion. His involvement in the early American skinhead movement is chronicled in his memoir WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH: My Descent into America’s Most Violent Hate Movement—and How I Got Out (Hachette). He is co-developing a television docu-series based on his work helping people disengage from violent ideologies.

More profile about the speaker
Christian Picciolini | Speaker | TED.com

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