TED2016
Uri Hasson: This is your brain on communication
Uri Hason (Uri Hasson): Ovo je vaš mozak tokom komunikacije
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Neuronaučnik Uri Hason istražuje osnove ljudske komunikacije, a eksperimenti iz njegove laboratorije otkrivaju da čak i kod različitih jezika naši mozgovi pokazuju sličnu aktivnost ili postaju „usklađeni“ kada čujemo istu ideju ili priču. Ovaj neverovatni nervni mehanizam omogućava nam da prenosimo moždane obrasce, pri čemu delimo sećanja i znanje. „Možemo da komuniciramo jer imamo zajednički kod koji predstavlja značenje“, kaže Hason.
Uri Hasson - Neuroscientist
Why do great thoughts and stories resonate so strongly with so many people, and how do we communicate them? Using fMRI experiments, Uri Hasson is looking for the answers. Full bio
Why do great thoughts and stories resonate so strongly with so many people, and how do we communicate them? Using fMRI experiments, Uri Hasson is looking for the answers. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Imagine that you invented a device
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Zamislite da ste izmislili napravu
00:14
that can record my memories,
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koja može da zabeleži moja sećanja,
00:16
my dreams, my ideas,
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moje snove, moje ideje
00:18
and transmit them to your brain.
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i prenese ih u vaš mozak.
00:20
That would be a game-changing
technology, right?
technology, right?
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To bi bila tehnologija
koja bi znatno promenila stvari, zar ne?
koja bi znatno promenila stvari, zar ne?
00:23
But in fact, we already
possess this device,
possess this device,
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Zapravo, mi već posedujemo tu napravu,
00:26
and it's called human communication system
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a ona se zove sistem ljudske komunikacije
00:29
and effective storytelling.
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i efikasno pripovedanje.
00:31
To understand how this device works,
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Da bismo razumeli
kako ova naprava funkcioniše,
kako ova naprava funkcioniše,
00:34
we have to look into our brains.
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moramo da pogledamo unutar našeg mozga.
00:36
And we have to formulate the question
in a slightly different manner.
in a slightly different manner.
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Moramo i da formulišemo pitanje
na malo drugačiji način.
na malo drugačiji način.
00:40
Now we have to ask
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Moramo da se zapitamo
00:42
how these neuron patterns in my brain
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kako se neuralni obrasci u mom mozgu
00:44
that are associated
with my memories and ideas
with my memories and ideas
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koji su u vezi
sa mojim sećanjima i idejama
sa mojim sećanjima i idejama
00:48
are transmitted into your brains.
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prenose u vaše mozgove.
00:51
And we think there are two factors
that enable us to communicate.
that enable us to communicate.
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Mislimo da postoje dva faktora
koja nam omogućavaju da komuniciramo.
koja nam omogućavaju da komuniciramo.
00:55
First, your brain is now
physically coupled to the sound wave
physically coupled to the sound wave
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Prvi - vaši mozgovi se sada nalaze
u fizičkoj vezi sa zvučnim talasom
u fizičkoj vezi sa zvučnim talasom
00:59
that I'm transmitting to your brain.
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koji prenosim u vaše mozgove.
01:01
And second, we developed
a common neural protocol
a common neural protocol
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Drugi - razvili smo
zajednički nervni protokol
zajednički nervni protokol
01:05
that enabled us to communicate.
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koji nam omogućava da komuniciramo.
Kako to znamo?
01:07
So how do we know that?
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01:09
In my lab in Princeton,
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U mojoj laboratoriji na Prinstonu
01:11
we bring people to the fMRI scanner
and we scan their brains
and we scan their brains
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stavljamo ljude pod MR skener
i skeniramo njihov mozak
i skeniramo njihov mozak
01:14
while they are either telling
or listening to real-life stories.
or listening to real-life stories.
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dok pričaju ili slušaju
priče iz stvarnog života.
priče iz stvarnog života.
01:18
And to give you a sense
of the stimulus we are using,
of the stimulus we are using,
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Da bi vam dao predstavu
o stimulusima koje koristimo,
o stimulusima koje koristimo,
01:21
let me play 20 seconds
from a story that we used,
from a story that we used,
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dopustite da vam pustim 20 sekundi
iz priče koju smo koristili,
iz priče koju smo koristili,
01:25
told by a very talented storyteller,
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koju je ispričao
veoma talentovani pripovedač,
veoma talentovani pripovedač,
01:27
Jim O'Grady.
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Džim O'Grejdi.
(Audio zapis) Džim O'Grejdi: Razbijam
tako sa pričom i znam da je dobra,
tako sa pričom i znam da je dobra,
01:30
(Audio) Jim O'Grady: So I'm banging out
my story and I know it's good,
my story and I know it's good,
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01:33
and then I start to make it better --
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a onda krenem da je poboljšavam -
01:35
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:38
by adding an element of embellishment.
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dodavanjem ukrasnog elementa.
01:41
Reporters call this "making shit up."
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Novinari to nazivaju
stvaranjem izmišljotina.
stvaranjem izmišljotina.
01:44
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:47
And they recommend
against crossing that line.
against crossing that line.
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Ne preporučuju prelaženje te linije,
01:52
But I had just seen the line crossed
between a high-powered dean
between a high-powered dean
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ali sam upravo video
da se ta linija prelazi
da se ta linija prelazi
u slučaju moćnog dekana
i napada sa pecivom,
i napada sa pecivom,
01:56
and assault with a pastry.
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a to mi se nekako svidelo.
01:58
And I kinda liked it."
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Uri Hason: U redu, hajde da sada
pogledamo unutar vašeg mozga
pogledamo unutar vašeg mozga
01:59
Uri Hasson: OK, so now
let's look into your brain
let's look into your brain
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02:02
and see what's happening
when you listen to these kinds of stories.
when you listen to these kinds of stories.
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i vidimo šta se dešava
kada slušate ovakve priče.
kada slušate ovakve priče.
Započnimo jednostavno -
02:05
And let's start simple -- let's start
with one listener and one brain area:
with one listener and one brain area:
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započnimo sa jednim slušaocem
i jednom oblašću mozga,
i jednom oblašću mozga,
02:09
the auditory cortex that processes
the sounds that come from the ear.
the sounds that come from the ear.
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auditivnim korteksom koji obrađuje
zvuke koji dolaze iz uha.
zvuke koji dolaze iz uha.
Kao što možete videti,
u ovoj specifičnoj oblasti mozga
u ovoj specifičnoj oblasti mozga
02:13
And as you can see,
in this particular brain area,
in this particular brain area,
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reakcije idu gore i dole
dok se priča odvija.
dok se priča odvija.
02:15
the responses are going up and down
as the story is unfolding.
as the story is unfolding.
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02:19
Now we can take these responses
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Sada možemo da te reakcije
02:20
and compare them to the responses
in other listeners
in other listeners
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uporedimo sa reakcijama drugih slušalaca
u istoj oblasti mozga.
u istoj oblasti mozga.
02:23
in the same brain area.
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Možemo da postavimo pitanje
02:24
And we can ask:
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02:26
How similar are the responses
across all listeners?
across all listeners?
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koliko su slične reakcije
među svim slušaocima.
među svim slušaocima.
02:30
So here you can see five listeners.
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Ovde imate pet slušalaca.
Počinjemo da im skeniramo mozak
pre početka priče,
pre početka priče,
02:32
And we start to scan their brains
before the story starts,
before the story starts,
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02:36
when they're simply lying in the dark
and waiting for the story to begin.
and waiting for the story to begin.
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kada samo leže u mraku
i čekaju da priča počne.
i čekaju da priča počne.
Kao što možete videti,
02:40
As you can see,
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oblast mozga ima reakcije koje se kreću
gore-dole kod svakog od njih,
gore-dole kod svakog od njih,
02:41
the brain area is going up and down
in each one of them,
in each one of them,
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02:43
but the responses are very different,
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ali su one veoma različite,
02:45
and not in sync.
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a ne sinhronizovane.
02:47
However, immediately
as the story is starting,
as the story is starting,
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Međutim, u trenutku kada priča počinje,
02:50
something amazing is happening.
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nešto neverovatno se dešava.
02:52
(Audio) JO: So I'm banging out my story
and I know it's good,
and I know it's good,
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DO: Razbijam tako sa pričom
i znam da je dobra,
i znam da je dobra,
a onda krenem da je poboljšavam...
02:55
and then I start to make it --
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02:57
UH: Suddenly, you can see
that the responses in all of the subjects
that the responses in all of the subjects
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UH: Odjednom možete videti
da se reakcije svih subjekata
da se reakcije svih subjekata
vezuju za priču
03:00
lock to the story,
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i da se sada kreću gore-dole
na veoma sličan način
na veoma sličan način
03:01
and now they are going up and down
in a very similar way
in a very similar way
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03:05
across all listeners.
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kod svih slušalaca.
03:06
And in fact, this is exactly
what is happening now in your brains
what is happening now in your brains
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Zapravo, upravo to se sada dešava
u vašim mozgovima
u vašim mozgovima
03:09
when you listen to my sound speaking.
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dok slušate zvuk mog govora.
03:12
We call this effect "neural entrainment."
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Ovaj efekat nazivamo
„nervna usaglašenost“.
„nervna usaglašenost“.
03:16
And to explain to you
what is neural entrainment,
what is neural entrainment,
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Da bih vam objasnio
šta je nervna usaglašenost,
šta je nervna usaglašenost,
dopustite da najpre objasnim
šta je fizička usaglašenost.
šta je fizička usaglašenost.
03:18
let me first explain
what is physical entrainment.
what is physical entrainment.
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03:22
So, we'll look and see five metronomes.
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Pogledajmo i videćemo pet metronoma.
03:24
Think of these five metronomes
as five brains.
as five brains.
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Zamislite da ti metronomi
predstavljaju pet mozgova.
predstavljaju pet mozgova.
03:27
And similar to the listeners
before the story starts,
before the story starts,
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Slično slušaocima
pre nego što priča započne,
pre nego što priča započne,
03:30
these metronomes are going to click,
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metronomi će kliknuti,
03:32
but they're going to click out of phase.
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ali će kliknuti van faze.
03:35
(Clicking)
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(Kliktanje)
Sada pogledajte šta će se dogoditi
kada ih povežem
kada ih povežem
03:39
Now see what will happen
when I connect them together
when I connect them together
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03:42
by placing them on these two cylinders.
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tako što ću ih staviti
na ova dva cilindra.
na ova dva cilindra.
03:45
(Clicking)
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(Kliktanje)
Sada ova dva cilindra
počinju da se okreću.
počinju da se okreću.
03:49
Now these two cylinders start to rotate.
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03:51
This rotation vibration
is going through the wood
is going through the wood
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Ovo kružno okretanje ide kroz drvo
03:54
and is going to couple
all the metronomes together.
all the metronomes together.
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i međusobno će uskladiti metronome.
03:57
And now listen to the click.
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Sada slušajte kliktanje.
03:59
(Synchronized clicking)
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(Sinhronizovano kliktanje)
To je ono što biste nazvali
fizička usaglašenost.
fizička usaglašenost.
04:09
This is what you call
physical entrainment.
physical entrainment.
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04:12
Now let's go back to the brain and ask:
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Hajde da se sada vratimo
na mozak i zapitamo se:
na mozak i zapitamo se:
04:14
What's driving this neural entrainment?
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šta pokreće nervnu usaglašenost?
Da li su to jednostavno zvuci
koje proizvodi onaj ko govori?
koje proizvodi onaj ko govori?
04:16
Is it simply the sounds
that the speaker is producing?
that the speaker is producing?
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04:19
Or maybe it's the words.
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Možda su u pitanju reči.
04:21
Or maybe it's the meaning
that the speaker is trying to convey.
that the speaker is trying to convey.
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Možda je to značenje
koje govornik pokušava da prenese.
koje govornik pokušava da prenese.
04:24
So to test it, we did
the following experiment.
the following experiment.
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Da bismo to proverili,
sproveli smo sledeći eksperiment.
sproveli smo sledeći eksperiment.
04:27
First, we took the story
and played it backwards.
and played it backwards.
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Najpre smo uzeli priču
i pustili je unazad.
i pustili je unazad.
04:30
And that preserved many
of the original auditory features,
of the original auditory features,
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To je očuvalo
mnogo prvobitnih osobina zvuka,
mnogo prvobitnih osobina zvuka,
04:33
but removed the meaning.
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ali je uklonilo značenje.
04:35
And it sounds something like that.
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Zvučalo je ovako nekako.
04:37
(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)
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(Audio zapis) DžO: (Nerazumljiv govor)
04:43
And we flashed colors in the two brains
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Označili smo bojama dva mozga
04:45
to indicate brain areas that respond
very similarly across people.
very similarly across people.
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da bismo ukazali na oblasti mozga
u kojima ljudi imaju vrlo slične reakcije.
u kojima ljudi imaju vrlo slične reakcije.
04:49
And as you can see,
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Kao što možete videti,
dolazeći zvuk je proizveo usaglašenost
ili usklađenost u svim mogovima
ili usklađenost u svim mogovima
04:50
this incoming sound induced entrainment
or alignment in all of the brains
or alignment in all of the brains
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04:54
in auditory cortices
that process the sounds,
that process the sounds,
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u auditivnom korteksu koji obrađuje zvuk,
04:57
but it didn't spread
deeper into the brain.
deeper into the brain.
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ali se nije proširio dublje u mozak.
05:00
Now we can take these sounds
and build words out of it.
and build words out of it.
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Možemo da uzmemo te zvukove
i napravimo reči od njih.
i napravimo reči od njih.
Dakle, ako uzmemo priču Džima O'Grejdija
i ispremeštamo reči, dobićemo spisak reči.
i ispremeštamo reči, dobićemo spisak reči.
05:03
So if we take Jim O'Grady
and scramble the words,
and scramble the words,
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05:06
we'll get a list of words.
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(Audio zapis) DžO: ... životinja...
odabrane činjenice...
odabrane činjenice...
05:07
(Audio) JO: ... an animal ...
assorted facts ...
assorted facts ...
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05:09
and right on ... pie man ...
potentially ... my stories
potentially ... my stories
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i upravo... čovek-pita...
potencijalno... moje priče.
potencijalno... moje priče.
05:12
UH: And you can see that these words
start to induce alignment
start to induce alignment
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UH: Možete vidite da ove reči
počinju da proizvode sklad
počinju da proizvode sklad
u ranim oblastima za jezik,
ali ne i izvan toga.
ali ne i izvan toga.
05:15
in early language areas,
but not more than that.
but not more than that.
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05:18
Now we can take the words
and start to build sentences out of them.
and start to build sentences out of them.
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Sada možemo da uzmemo reči
i počnemo da pravimo rečenice od njih.
i počnemo da pravimo rečenice od njih.
05:23
(Audio) JO: And they recommend
against crossing that line.
against crossing that line.
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(Audio zapis) DžO: Ne preporučuju
prelaženje te linije.
prelaženje te linije.
05:28
He says: "Dear Jim,
Good story. Nice details.
Good story. Nice details.
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On kaže: „Dragi Džim,
dobra priča, fini detalji.
dobra priča, fini detalji.
05:32
Didn't she only know
about him through me?"
about him through me?"
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Zar ona nije znala za njega
samo preko mene?“
samo preko mene?“
05:34
UH: Now you can see that the responses
in all the language areas
in all the language areas
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UH: Sada možete videti da reakcije
u svim oblastima za jezik
u svim oblastima za jezik
05:37
that process the incoming language
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koje obrađuju dolazeći jezik
postaju usklađene ili slične
kod svih slušalaca.
kod svih slušalaca.
05:39
become aligned or similar
across all listeners.
across all listeners.
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05:42
However, only when we use
the full, engaging, coherent story
the full, engaging, coherent story
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Međutim, samo kada koristimo celu,
zanimljivu, povezanu priču,
zanimljivu, povezanu priču,
05:46
do the responses spread
deeper into the brain
deeper into the brain
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reakcije počinju da se šire
dublje unutar mozga
dublje unutar mozga
05:49
into higher-order areas,
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u oblasti višeg reda,
05:50
which include the frontal cortex
and the parietal cortex,
and the parietal cortex,
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koje obuhvataju frontalni korteks
i parijetalni korteks
i parijetalni korteks
05:53
and make all of them
respond very similarly.
respond very similarly.
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i dovode do toga
da sve one vrlo slično reaguju.
da sve one vrlo slično reaguju.
05:56
And we believe that these responses
in higher-order areas are induced
in higher-order areas are induced
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Smatramo da te reakcije
u oblastima višeg reda nastaju
u oblastima višeg reda nastaju
05:59
or become similar across listeners
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ili postaju slične
kod različitih slušalaca
kod različitih slušalaca
06:01
because of the meaning
conveyed by the speaker,
conveyed by the speaker,
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zbog značenja koje govornik prenosi,
06:04
and not by words or sound.
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a ne zbog reči ili zvuka.
06:06
And if we are right,
there's a strong prediction over here
there's a strong prediction over here
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Ako smo u pravu,
postoji snažno predviđanje da,
postoji snažno predviđanje da,
06:09
if I tell you the exact same ideas
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ako vam iznesem potpuno iste ideje
06:11
using two very different sets of words,
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koristeći dva veoma različita skupa reči,
06:14
your brain responses
will still be similar.
will still be similar.
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reakcije vašeg mozga
i dalje će biti slične.
i dalje će biti slične.
Da bismo to proverili, sproveli smo
sledeći eksperiment u mojoj laboratoriji.
sledeći eksperiment u mojoj laboratoriji.
06:17
And to test it, we did
the following experiment in my lab.
the following experiment in my lab.
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06:21
We took the English story
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Uzeli smo priču na engleskom
06:22
and translated it to Russian.
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i preveli je na ruski.
06:25
Now you have two different sounds
and linguistic systems
and linguistic systems
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Sada imate dva različita skupa zvukova
i lingvistička sistema
i lingvistička sistema
06:29
that convey the exact same meaning.
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koji prenose potpuno isto značenje.
06:31
And you play the English story
to the English listeners
to the English listeners
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Pustite priču na engleskom
slušaocu koji govori engleski,
slušaocu koji govori engleski,
06:35
and the Russian story
to the Russian listeners,
to the Russian listeners,
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a priču na ruskom
slušaocu koji govori ruski
slušaocu koji govori ruski
06:37
and we can compare their responses
across the groups.
across the groups.
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i možemo da uporedimo
njihove reakcije između grupa.
njihove reakcije između grupa.
06:40
And when we did that, we didn't see
responses that are similar
responses that are similar
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Kada smo to uradili,
nismo videli slične reakcije
nismo videli slične reakcije
06:44
in auditory cortices in language,
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u auditivnom korteksu u pogledu jezika,
06:46
because the language
and sound are very different.
and sound are very different.
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jer se jezik i zvukovi veoma razlikuju.
06:49
However, you can see
that the responses in high-order areas
that the responses in high-order areas
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Međutim, možete videti da su reakcije
u oblastima višeg reda
u oblastima višeg reda
06:51
were still similar
across these two groups.
across these two groups.
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bili prilično slični između ove dve grupe.
06:55
We believe this is because they understood
the story in a very similar way,
the story in a very similar way,
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Mislimo da je to zato što su razumeli
priču na vrlo sličan način,
priču na vrlo sličan način,
06:59
as we confirmed, using a test
after the story ended.
after the story ended.
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što smo potvrdili pomoću testa
nakon što se priča završila.
nakon što se priča završila.
07:04
And we think that this alignment
is necessary for communication.
is necessary for communication.
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Smatramo da je ovo slaganje
neophodno za komunikaciju.
neophodno za komunikaciju.
07:08
For example, as you can tell,
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Na primer, kao što možete primetiti,
07:10
I am not a native English speaker.
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engleski nije moj maternji jezik.
07:12
I grew up with another language,
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Odrastao sam uz drugi jezik,
07:14
and the same might be for many
of you in the audience.
of you in the audience.
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a verovatno isto važi
za mnoge među vama u publici.
za mnoge među vama u publici.
07:17
And still, we can communicate.
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Ipak, možemo da komuniciramo.
07:19
How come?
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Kako to?
07:20
We think we can communicate
because we have this common code
because we have this common code
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Mislimo da možemo da komuniciramo
jer imamo zajednički kod
jer imamo zajednički kod
07:23
that presents meaning.
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koji predstavlja značenje.
07:25
So far, I've only talked about
what's happening in the listener's brain,
what's happening in the listener's brain,
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Do sada sam samo govorio
o tome šta se dešava u mozgu slušaoca,
o tome šta se dešava u mozgu slušaoca,
07:29
in your brain, when
you're listening to talks.
you're listening to talks.
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u vašem mozgu, dok slušate govore.
07:31
But what's happening
in the speaker's brain, in my brain,
in the speaker's brain, in my brain,
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Međutim, šta se dešava
u mozgu govornika, u mom mozgu,
u mozgu govornika, u mom mozgu,
07:34
when I'm speaking to you?
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dok govorim pred vama?
07:36
To look in the speaker's brain,
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Da bismo pogledali u mozak govornika,
07:38
we asked the speaker
to go into the scanner,
to go into the scanner,
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zatražili smo od njega da dođe pod skener,
07:41
we scan his brain
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skenirali smo mu mozak
07:42
and then compare his brain responses
to the brain responses of the listeners
to the brain responses of the listeners
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i zatim uporedili reakcije njegovog mozga
sa reakcijama mozga slušalaca
sa reakcijama mozga slušalaca
07:46
listening to the story.
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dok slušaju priču.
07:48
You have to remember that producing speech
and comprehending speech
and comprehending speech
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Morate se prisetiti
da su proizvodnja i razumevanje govora
da su proizvodnja i razumevanje govora
07:52
are very different processes.
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veoma različiti procesi.
07:54
Here we're asking: How similar are they?
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Ovde postavljamo pitanje koliko su slični.
07:58
To our surprise,
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Na naše iznenađenje,
07:59
we saw that all these complex
patterns within the listeners
patterns within the listeners
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videli smo da su svi ti složeni obrasci
unutar mozga slušalaca
unutar mozga slušalaca
08:04
actually came from the speaker brain.
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zapravo proizašli iz mozga govornika.
08:07
So production and comprehension
rely on very similar processes.
rely on very similar processes.
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Dakle, proizvodnja i razumevanje
počivaju na veoma sličnim procesima.
počivaju na veoma sličnim procesima.
08:10
And we also found
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Takođe smo otkrili da,
08:12
the stronger the similarity
between the listener's brain
between the listener's brain
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što je veća sličnost između mozga slušaoca
08:16
and the speaker's brain,
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i mozga govornika,
08:17
the better the communication.
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utoliko je bolja komunikacija.
08:19
So I know that if you
are completely confused now,
are completely confused now,
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Dakle, znam da,
ako ste sada sasvim zbunjeni,
ako ste sada sasvim zbunjeni,
08:23
and I do hope that this is not the case,
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a nadam se da niste,
reakcije vašeg mozga
su veoma različite u odnosu na moje.
su veoma različite u odnosu na moje.
08:25
your brain responses
are very different than mine.
are very different than mine.
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08:28
But I also know that if you really
understand me now,
understand me now,
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Takođe znam da,
ako me sada zaista razumete,
ako me sada zaista razumete,
08:31
then your brain ... and your brain
... and your brain
... and your brain
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tada su vaš mozak, vaš mozak i vaš mozak
08:34
are really similar to mine.
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veoma slični mom.
08:37
Now, let's take all
this information together and ask:
this information together and ask:
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Hajde da sada saberemo
te informacije i postavimo pitanje
te informacije i postavimo pitanje
08:40
How can we use it to transmit
a memory that I have
a memory that I have
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kako možemo ovo koristiti
da bismo preneli sećanja koje ja imam
da bismo preneli sećanja koje ja imam
08:44
from my brain to your brains?
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iz mog mozga u vaše.
08:47
So we did the following experiment.
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Stoga smo sproveli sledeći eksperiment.
08:49
We let people watch,
for the first time in their life,
for the first time in their life,
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Dali smo ljudima da gledaju,
po prvi put u svom životu,
po prvi put u svom životu,
08:52
a TV episode from the BBC series
"Sherlock," while we scanned their brains.
"Sherlock," while we scanned their brains.
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epizodu iz Bi-Bi-Sijeve serije „Šerlok“
dok smo im skenirali mozak.
dok smo im skenirali mozak.
08:56
And then we asked them
to go back to the scanner
to go back to the scanner
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Zatim smo zatražili od njih
da se vrate pod skener
da se vrate pod skener
08:59
and tell the story to another person
that never watched the movie.
that never watched the movie.
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i ispričaju priču drugoj osobi
koja nikada nije gledala film.
koja nikada nije gledala film.
09:03
So let's be specific.
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Hajde da budemo konkretni.
09:04
Think about this exact scene,
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Uzmite ovu određenu scenu
09:06
when Sherlock is entering
the cab in London
the cab in London
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kada Šerlok ulazi u taksi u Londonu
09:09
driven by the murderer he is looking for.
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koji vozi ubica kojeg traži.
09:12
With me, as a viewer,
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Kod mene, kao gledaoca,
09:14
there is a specific brain pattern
in my brain when I watch it.
in my brain when I watch it.
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javlja se određeni obrazac u mozgu
dok to gledam.
dok to gledam.
09:19
Now, the exact same pattern,
I can reactivate in my brain again
I can reactivate in my brain again
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Isti taj obrazac mogu
iznova da aktiviram u svom mozgu
iznova da aktiviram u svom mozgu
09:22
by telling the world:
Sherlock, London, murderer.
Sherlock, London, murderer.
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izgovaranjem reči „Šerlok“,
„London“, „ubica“.
„London“, „ubica“.
Kada te reči sada prenosim u vaše mozgove,
09:27
And when I'm transmitting
these words to your brains now,
these words to your brains now,
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09:30
you have to reconstruct it in your mind.
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morate to da rekonstruišete u svom umu.
09:33
In fact, we see that pattern
emerging now in your brains.
emerging now in your brains.
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Zapravo, vidimo da se taj obrazac
sada javlja u vašim mozgovima.
sada javlja u vašim mozgovima.
09:37
And we were really surprised to see
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Zaista smo se iznenadili kada smo videli
09:40
that the pattern you have
now in your brains
now in your brains
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da će obrasci koje sada imate
u svojim mozgovima
u svojim mozgovima
09:42
when I'm describing to you these scenes
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kada vam opisujem te scene
09:44
would be very similar to the pattern
I had when I watched this movie
I had when I watched this movie
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biti veoma slični obrascima
koji sam imao pri gledanju filma
koji sam imao pri gledanju filma
pre nekoliko meseci pod skenerom.
09:48
a few months ago in the scanner.
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09:50
This starts to tell you
about the mechanism
about the mechanism
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Ovo počinje da vam govori o mehanizmu
pomoću kojeg možemo da pričamo priče
i prenosimo informacije.
i prenosimo informacije.
09:52
by which we can tell stories
and transmit information.
and transmit information.
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09:55
Because, for example,
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Jer, na primer,
09:57
now you're listening really hard
and trying to understand what I'm saying.
and trying to understand what I'm saying.
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sada me slušate vrlo intenzivno
i pokušavate da razumete šta govorim.
i pokušavate da razumete šta govorim.
Znam da to nije lako,
10:01
And I know that it's not easy.
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10:02
But I hope that at one point
in the talk we clicked, and you got me.
in the talk we clicked, and you got me.
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ali se nadam da smo u jednom trenutku
govora kliknuli i da ste me shvatili.
govora kliknuli i da ste me shvatili.
10:06
And I think that in a few hours,
a few days, a few months,
a few days, a few months,
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Mislim da ćete za nekoliko sati,
nekoliko dana ili meseci
nekoliko dana ili meseci
10:10
you're going to meet someone at a party,
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upoznati nekoga na žurci,
10:12
and you're going to tell him
about this lecture,
about this lecture,
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da ćete mu ispričati o ovom predavanju
10:16
and suddenly it will be as if
he is standing now here with us.
he is standing now here with us.
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i da će iznenada biti
kao da se sada nalazi ovde sa nama.
kao da se sada nalazi ovde sa nama.
10:20
Now you can see
how we can take this mechanism
how we can take this mechanism
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Sada možete videti kako možemo
upotrebiti ovaj mehanizam
upotrebiti ovaj mehanizam
10:23
and try to transmit memories
and knowledge across people,
and knowledge across people,
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da pokušamo da prenesemo sećanja
i znanje među ljudima,
i znanje među ljudima,
10:26
which is wonderful, right?
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što je sjajno, zar ne?
10:29
But our ability to communicate
relies on our ability
relies on our ability
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Međutim, naša sposobnost komunikacije
počiva na našoj sposobnosti
da imamo zajedničko tle.
da imamo zajedničko tle.
10:32
to have common ground.
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10:34
Because, for example,
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Na primer,
10:36
if I'm going to use the British synonym
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ako upotrebim britanski sinonim
10:39
"hackney carriage" instead of "cab,"
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„najamna kola“ umesto „taksija“,
10:42
I know that I'm going to be misaligned
with most of you in the audience.
with most of you in the audience.
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znam da se neću poklopiti
sa većinom vas u publici.
sa većinom vas u publici.
To usklađivanje zavisi
ne samo od naše sposobnosti
ne samo od naše sposobnosti
10:46
This alignment depends
not only on our ability
not only on our ability
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10:48
to understand the basic concept;
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da razumemo osnovne koncepte;
10:50
it also depends on our ability to develop
common ground and understanding
common ground and understanding
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ono zavisi i od naše sposobnosti
da razvijemo zajedničko tle,
da razvijemo zajedničko tle,
razumevanje i zajednički sistem uverenja.
10:55
and shared belief systems.
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10:57
Because we know that in many cases,
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Jer svi znamo da u mnogim slučajevima
10:59
people understand the exact
same story in very different ways.
same story in very different ways.
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ljudi razumeju potpuno istu priču
na veoma različite načine.
na veoma različite načine.
Da bismo ovo proverili u laboratoriji,
sproveli smo sledeći eksperiment.
sproveli smo sledeći eksperiment.
11:04
So to test it in the lab,
we did the following experiment.
we did the following experiment.
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11:08
We took a story by J.D. Salinger,
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Uzeli smo priču Dž. D. Selindžera,
11:11
in which a husband lost track
of his wife in the middle of a party,
of his wife in the middle of a party,
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u kojoj je muž izgubio ženu usred zabave
11:15
and he's calling his best friend, asking,
"Did you see my wife?"
"Did you see my wife?"
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i zove svog najboljeg prijatelja da pita:
„Jesi li video moju ženu?“
„Jesi li video moju ženu?“
11:19
For half of the subjects,
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Polovini subjekata rekli smo
11:21
we said that the wife was having
an affair with the best friend.
an affair with the best friend.
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da žena ima aferu
sa najboljim prijateljem.
sa najboljim prijateljem.
11:25
For the other half,
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Drugoj polovini smo rekli
11:26
we said that the wife is loyal
and the husband is very jealous.
and the husband is very jealous.
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da je žena verna
i da je muž vrlo ljubomoran.
i da je muž vrlo ljubomoran.
11:32
This one sentence before the story started
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Ta jedna rečenica pre početka priče
11:34
was enough to make the brain responses
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bila je dovoljna da učini
da reakcije mozga
da reakcije mozga
11:37
of all the people that believed
the wife was having an affair
the wife was having an affair
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svih ljudi koji su verovali
da žena ima aferu
da žena ima aferu
11:40
be very similar in these high-order areas
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budu veoma slične
u ovim oblastima višeg reda
u ovim oblastima višeg reda
11:42
and different than the other group.
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i različite u odnosu na drugu grupu.
11:44
And if one sentence is enough
to make your brain similar
to make your brain similar
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Ako je jedna rečenica dovoljna
da učini vaš mozak sličnim
da učini vaš mozak sličnim
kao i kod ljudi koji misle kao vi
11:48
to people that think like you
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i vrlo različitim u odnosu na ljude
koji misle različito u odnosu na vas,
koji misle različito u odnosu na vas,
11:50
and very different than people
that think differently than you,
that think differently than you,
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11:53
think how this effect is going
to be amplified in real life,
to be amplified in real life,
243
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pomislite koliko će taj efekat
biti pojačan u stvarnom životu,
biti pojačan u stvarnom životu,
11:56
when we are all listening
to the exact same news item
to the exact same news item
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kada svi slušamo
potpuno iste teme u vestima
potpuno iste teme u vestima
11:59
after being exposed
day after day after day
day after day after day
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nakon što se one dan za danom iznose
12:03
to different media channels,
like Fox News or The New York Times,
like Fox News or The New York Times,
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3812
na različitim medijskim kanalima,
poput Foks njuza ili Njujork tajmsa,
poput Foks njuza ili Njujork tajmsa,
12:07
that give us very different
perspectives on reality.
perspectives on reality.
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koji nam daju vrlo različita
sagledavanja stvarnosti.
sagledavanja stvarnosti.
Dakle, dozvolite da rezimiram.
12:11
So let me summarize.
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12:13
If everything worked as planned tonight,
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Ako je večeras sve proteklo po planu,
12:15
I used my ability to vocalize sound
to be coupled to your brains.
to be coupled to your brains.
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koristio sam svoju sposobnost
izgovaranja zvukova
izgovaranja zvukova
za povezivanje sa vašim mozgovima
i koristio sam to spajanje
i koristio sam to spajanje
12:19
And I used this coupling
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12:21
to transmit my brain patterns associated
with my memories and ideas
with my memories and ideas
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da bih preneo svoje moždane obrasce
povezane sa svojim sećanjima i idejama
povezane sa svojim sećanjima i idejama
12:25
into your brains.
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u vaše mozgove.
12:27
In this, I start to reveal
the hidden neural mechanism
the hidden neural mechanism
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Ovim počinjem da razotkrivam
skriveni nervni mehanizam
skriveni nervni mehanizam
12:31
by which we communicate.
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pomoću kojeg komuniciramo.
12:32
And we know that in the future
it will enable us to improve
it will enable us to improve
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Znamo da će nam on u budućnosti
omogućiti da unapredimo
omogućiti da unapredimo
12:35
and facilitate communication.
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i olakšamo komunikaciju.
12:38
But these studies also reveal
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Međutim, ova istraživanja takođe otkrivaju
12:40
that communication relies
on a common ground.
on a common ground.
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da komunikacija počiva na zajedničkom tlu.
12:43
And we have to be
really worried as a society
really worried as a society
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Moramo da se zaista zabrinemo kao društvo
12:46
if we lose this common ground
and our ability to speak with people
and our ability to speak with people
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ako izgubimo to zajedničko tle
i našu sposobnost da govorimo sa ljudima
i našu sposobnost da govorimo sa ljudima
12:50
that are slightly different than us
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koji su malo drugačiji od nas
12:52
because we let a few very strong
media channels
media channels
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jer smo dopustili da nekoliko
vrlo jakih medijskih kanala
vrlo jakih medijskih kanala
12:55
take control of the mic,
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preuzmu kontrolu nad mikrofonom,
12:57
and manipulate and control
the way we all think.
the way we all think.
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da manipulišu i kontrolišu način
na koji svi mi razmišljamo.
na koji svi mi razmišljamo.
13:01
And I'm not sure how to fix it
because I'm only a scientist.
because I'm only a scientist.
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Nisam siguran kako to da popravim
jer sam samo naučnik.
jer sam samo naučnik.
13:04
But maybe one way to do it
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Možda je jedan od načina za to
13:06
is to go back to the more
natural way of communication,
natural way of communication,
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da se vratimo na prirodnije načine
komunikacije, a to je dijalog,
komunikacije, a to je dijalog,
13:09
which is a dialogue,
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13:11
in which it's not only me
speaking to you now,
speaking to you now,
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u kome sada ne govorim samo ja pred vama,
13:13
but a more natural way of talking,
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već prirodniji način razgovaranja
13:16
in which I am speaking and I am listening,
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u kojem govorim i slušam,
13:19
and together we are trying to come
to a common ground and new ideas.
to a common ground and new ideas.
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a zajedno pokušavamo da stvorimo
zajedničko tle i nove ideje.
zajedničko tle i nove ideje.
13:24
Because after all,
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Jer, na kraju krajeva,
13:25
the people we are coupled to
define who we are.
define who we are.
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ljudi sa kojima smo povezani
definišu ono što jesmo.
definišu ono što jesmo.
13:29
And our desire to be coupled
to another brain
to another brain
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Naša želja da se povežemo sa drugim mozgom
13:31
is something very basic
that starts at a very early age.
that starts at a very early age.
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predstavlja nešto vrlo bazično
što počinje u vrlo ranom uzrastu.
što počinje u vrlo ranom uzrastu.
13:36
So let me finish with an example
from my own private life
from my own private life
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Dozvolite da završim primerom
iz svog privatnog života
iz svog privatnog života
13:41
that I think is a good example
of how coupling to other people
of how coupling to other people
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za koji smatram da je dobar primer
za to kako povezivanje sa drugim ljudima
za to kako povezivanje sa drugim ljudima
13:45
is really going to define who we are.
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zaista definiše ono što jesmo.
13:48
This my son Jonathan at a very early age.
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Ovo je moj sin Jonatan
u vrlo ranom uzrastu.
u vrlo ranom uzrastu.
13:51
See how he developed
a vocal game together with my wife,
a vocal game together with my wife,
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Vidite kako je razvio
igru glasova sa mojom ženom,
igru glasova sa mojom ženom,
13:55
only from the desire and pure joy
of being coupled to another human being.
of being coupled to another human being.
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samo iz želje i čiste radosti
povezivanja sa drugim ljudskim bićem.
povezivanja sa drugim ljudskim bićem.
14:01
(Both vocalizing)
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(Oboje vokalizuju)
14:14
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
14:17
Now, think how the ability of my son
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Razmislite o tome
kako će sposobnost mog sina
kako će sposobnost mog sina
14:21
to be coupled to us
and other people in his life
and other people in his life
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da se poveže sa nama
i drugim ljudima u svom životu
i drugim ljudima u svom životu
14:23
is going to shape the man
he is going to become.
he is going to become.
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oblikovati čoveka koji će on postati.
14:26
And think how you change on a daily basis
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Razmislite i o tome
koliko se vi menjate iz dana u dan
koliko se vi menjate iz dana u dan
14:29
from the interaction and coupling
to other people in your life.
to other people in your life.
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usled interakcije i povezivanja
sa drugim ljudima u svom životu.
sa drugim ljudima u svom životu.
14:34
So keep being coupled to other people.
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Stoga nastavite
da se povezujete sa drugima.
da se povezujete sa drugima.
14:37
Keep spreading your ideas,
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Nastavite da širite svoje ideje,
14:38
because the sum of all of us
together, coupled,
together, coupled,
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jer je skup svih nas zajedno, povezanih,
14:41
is greater than our parts.
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veći od naših delova.
14:43
Thank you.
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Hvala.
14:44
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Uri Hasson - NeuroscientistWhy do great thoughts and stories resonate so strongly with so many people, and how do we communicate them? Using fMRI experiments, Uri Hasson is looking for the answers.
Why you should listen
Rather than purging real-world complexity from his experiments, Uri Hasson and his Princeton lab collaborators use messy, real-life stimuli to study how our brains communicate with other brains.
Using fMRI to peer into his subjects’ brain activity, Hasson has discovered that a great storyteller literally causes the neurons of an audience to closely sync with the storyteller’s brain -- a finding that has far-reaching implications for communicators, teachers, performers, and scientists alike.
Uri Hasson | Speaker | TED.com