TED2017
Anil Seth: Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
Anil Set (Anil Seth): Kako vaš mozak halucinira vašu svesnu stvarnost
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Baš sad, milijarde neurona u vašem mozgu sarađuju kako bi zajedno stvorili svesno iskustvo - i to ne bilo kakvo svesno iskustvo, vaše iskustvo sveta oko vas i vas u njemu. Kako dolazi do ovoga? Prema neuronaučniku Anilu Setu, mi sve vreme haluciniramo; kada se složimo oko naših halucinacija, nazivamo to "stvarnošću". Pridružite se Setu u neodoljivom, dezorijentišućem govoru koji će vas možda navesti da preispitate samu prirodu vašeg postojanja.
Anil Seth - Cognitive neuroscientist
How can the "inner universe" of consciousness be explained in terms of mere biology and physics? Anil Seth explores the brain basis of consciousness and self. Full bio
How can the "inner universe" of consciousness be explained in terms of mere biology and physics? Anil Seth explores the brain basis of consciousness and self. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Just over a year ago,
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Pre nešto više od godinu,
00:14
for the third time in my life,
I ceased to exist.
I ceased to exist.
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treći put u mom životu,
prestao sam da postojim.
prestao sam da postojim.
00:17
I was having a small operation,
and my brain was filling with anesthetic.
and my brain was filling with anesthetic.
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Imao sam manju operaciju,
a mozak mi se ispunjavao anesteticima.
a mozak mi se ispunjavao anesteticima.
00:22
I remember a sense
of detachment and falling apart
of detachment and falling apart
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Sećam se osećaja razdvajanja i raspadanja
00:25
and a coldness.
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i hladnoće.
00:27
And then I was back,
drowsy and disoriented,
drowsy and disoriented,
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A onda sam se povratio,
mamuran i dezorijentisan,
mamuran i dezorijentisan,
00:30
but definitely there.
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ali definitivno prisutan.
Sad, kad se probudite iz dubokog sna,
00:32
Now, when you wake from a deep sleep,
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možete da budete zbunjeni oko vremena
ili nespokojni jer ste prespavali,
ili nespokojni jer ste prespavali,
00:34
you might feel confused about the time
or anxious about oversleeping,
or anxious about oversleeping,
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00:37
but there's always a basic sense
of time having passed,
of time having passed,
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ali uvek je prisutno osnovno osećanje
da je prošlo vreme,
da je prošlo vreme,
00:40
of a continuity between then and now.
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o kontinuitetu između nekad i sad.
00:42
Coming round from
anesthesia is very different.
anesthesia is very different.
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Buđenje iz anestezije je veoma različito.
Mogao sam da budem pod anestezijom
pet minuta, pet sati,
pet minuta, pet sati,
00:44
I could have been under
for five minutes, five hours,
for five minutes, five hours,
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00:47
five years or even 50 years.
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pet godina ili 50 godina.
00:48
I simply wasn't there.
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Prosto nisam bio prisutan.
00:50
It was total oblivion.
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To je bila potpuna nesvesnost.
00:52
Anesthesia --
it's a modern kind of magic.
it's a modern kind of magic.
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Anestezija - to je savremeni vid magije.
00:54
It turns people into objects,
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Pretvara ljude u predmete,
00:57
and then, we hope, back again into people.
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a, potom, nadamo se, ponovo u ljude.
00:59
And in this process
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A u ovom procesu
01:00
is one of the greatest remaining
mysteries in science and philosophy.
mysteries in science and philosophy.
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se nalazi jedna od najvećih preostalih
tajni nauke i filozofije.
tajni nauke i filozofije.
01:04
How does consciousness happen?
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Kako dolazi do svesti?
01:06
Somehow, within each of our brains,
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Nekako, unutar svakog našeg uma,
01:08
the combined activity
of many billions of neurons,
of many billions of neurons,
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kombinovanom aktivnošću
na milijarde neurona,
na milijarde neurona,
01:11
each one a tiny biological machine,
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svaki od njih
je sićušni biološki mehanizam,
je sićušni biološki mehanizam,
01:14
is generating a conscious experience.
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nastaje iskustvo svesti.
01:16
And not just any conscious experience --
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I to ne bilo kakvo iskustvo svesti -
01:18
your conscious experience
right here and right now.
right here and right now.
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vaše iskustvo svesti baš ovde i baš sad.
01:20
How does this happen?
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Kako dolazi do ovoga?
01:22
Answering this question is so important
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Odgovor na ovo pitanje je važan
01:24
because consciousness
for each of us is all there is.
for each of us is all there is.
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jer je svest za sve nas sve što imamo.
01:27
Without it there's no world,
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Bez nje nema sveta,
01:30
there's no self,
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nema sopstva,
01:31
there's nothing at all.
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nema ama baš ništa.
01:33
And when we suffer, we suffer consciously
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A kada patimo, patimo svesno,
01:35
whether it's through
mental illness or pain.
mental illness or pain.
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bilo zbog mentalne bolesti ili bola.
01:38
And if we can experience
joy and suffering,
joy and suffering,
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A ako možemo da iskusimo
užitak i patnju,
užitak i patnju,
01:41
what about other animals?
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šta je sa drugim životinjama?
01:43
Might they be conscious, too?
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Da li su i one svesne?
01:44
Do they also have a sense of self?
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Da li i one imaju svest o sebi?
01:46
And as computers get faster and smarter,
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A kako kompjuteri
postaju brži i pametniji,
postaju brži i pametniji,
01:49
maybe there will come a point,
maybe not too far away,
maybe not too far away,
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možda će doći do tačke,
možda ne tako daleko,
možda ne tako daleko,
01:52
when my iPhone develops
a sense of its own existence.
a sense of its own existence.
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kada će moj ajfon razviti
svest o sopstvenom postojanju.
svest o sopstvenom postojanju.
01:54
I actually think the prospects
for a conscious AI are pretty remote.
for a conscious AI are pretty remote.
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Zapravo smatram da su izgledi
za svesnu VI prilično daleki.
za svesnu VI prilično daleki.
01:59
And I think this because
my research is telling me
my research is telling me
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A ovo smatram
jer mi moje istraživanje govori
jer mi moje istraživanje govori
02:02
that consciousness has less to do
with pure intelligence
with pure intelligence
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da svesnost ima manje veze
sa čistom inteligencijom,
sa čistom inteligencijom,
02:05
and more to do with our nature
as living and breathing organisms.
as living and breathing organisms.
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a mnogo više sa našom prirodom
živih organizama koji dišu.
živih organizama koji dišu.
02:09
Consciousness and intelligence
are very different things.
are very different things.
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Svesnost i inteligencija
su veoma različite stvari.
su veoma različite stvari.
02:12
You don't have to be smart to suffer,
but you probably do have to be alive.
but you probably do have to be alive.
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Pamet nije nužna za patnju,
ali verovatno jeste za preživljavanje.
ali verovatno jeste za preživljavanje.
02:17
In the story I'm going to tell you,
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U priči koju ću da vam ispričam
02:18
our conscious experiences
of the world around us,
of the world around us,
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naša iskustva svesti o svetu oko nas
02:21
and of ourselves within it,
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i o nama u njemu
02:22
are kinds of controlled hallucinations
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su vidovi kontrolisanih halucinacija
02:25
that happen with, through
and because of our living bodies.
and because of our living bodies.
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koje se dešavaju uz pomoć, preko
i zbog naših živih tela.
i zbog naših živih tela.
02:29
Now, you might have heard
that we know nothing
that we know nothing
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Sad, možda ste čuli da ne znamo bilo šta
02:33
about how the brain and body
give rise to consciousness.
give rise to consciousness.
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o tome kako mozak i telo tvore svesnost.
02:35
Some people even say it's beyond
the reach of science altogether.
the reach of science altogether.
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Neki ljudi čak kažu da je to
van dometa nauke uopšte.
van dometa nauke uopšte.
02:39
But in fact,
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Međutim,
02:40
the last 25 years have seen an explosion
of scientific work in this area.
of scientific work in this area.
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poslednjih 25 godina smo videli
eksploziju naučnog rada u ovoj oblasti.
eksploziju naučnog rada u ovoj oblasti.
02:44
If you come to my lab
at the University of Sussex,
at the University of Sussex,
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Ako posetite moju laboratoriju
na Univerzitetu Soseks,
na Univerzitetu Soseks,
02:47
you'll find scientists
from all different disciplines
from all different disciplines
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zateći ćete naučnike iz raznih disciplina,
02:51
and sometimes even philosophers.
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a ponekad čak i filozofe.
02:53
All of us together trying to understand
how consciousness happens
how consciousness happens
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Svi mi zajedno pokušavamo da razumemo
kako dolazi do svesnosti
kako dolazi do svesnosti
02:57
and what happens when it goes wrong.
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i šta se dešava kada krene po zlu.
02:59
And the strategy is very simple.
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A strategija je veoma jednostavna.
03:02
I'd like you to think about consciousness
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Želeo bih da razmišljate o svesnosti
03:04
in the way that we've
come to think about life.
come to think about life.
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na način na koji razmišljamo o životu.
03:06
At one time, people thought
the property of being alive
the property of being alive
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Nekada su ljudi mislili
da je svojstvo postojanja
da je svojstvo postojanja
03:08
could not be explained
by physics and chemistry --
by physics and chemistry --
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neobjašnjivo putem fizike i hemije -
03:11
that life had to be
more than just mechanism.
more than just mechanism.
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da život mora da bude
više od pukog mehanizma.
više od pukog mehanizma.
03:14
But people no longer think that.
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Međutim, ljudi više tako ne misle.
03:16
As biologists got on with the job
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Kako biolozi nastavljaju da rade
03:18
of explaining the properties
of living systems
of living systems
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na objašnjavanju svojstava živih sistema,
03:20
in terms of physics and chemistry --
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u smislu fizike i hemije -
03:22
things like metabolism,
reproduction, homeostasis --
reproduction, homeostasis --
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stvari poput metabolizma,
razmnožavanja, homeostaze -
razmnožavanja, homeostaze -
03:25
the basic mystery of what life is
started to fade away,
started to fade away,
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osnovna tajna toga šta je život
je počela da bledi
je počela da bledi
03:29
and people didn't propose
any more magical solutions,
any more magical solutions,
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i ljudi više nisu predlagali
magična rešenja,
magična rešenja,
03:32
like a force of life or an élan vital.
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poput snage života ili élan vital.
03:35
So as with life, so with consciousness.
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Kako sa životom, tako i sa svesnošću.
03:37
Once we start explaining its properties
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Čim počnemo da objašnjavamo
njena svojstva,
njena svojstva,
03:40
in terms of things happening
inside brains and bodies,
inside brains and bodies,
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u smislu onoga što se dešava
unutar mozgova i tela,
unutar mozgova i tela,
03:43
the apparently insoluble mystery
of what consciousness is
of what consciousness is
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naoko nerešiva tajna toga šta je svesnost
03:47
should start to fade away.
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bi trebalo da počne da bledi.
03:49
At least that's the plan.
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Barem je to plan.
03:51
So let's get started.
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Pa, počnimo.
03:52
What are the properties of consciousness?
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Šta su svojstva svesnosti?
03:54
What should a science
of consciousness try to explain?
of consciousness try to explain?
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Šta bi trebalo nauka o svesnosti
da pokuša da objasni?
da pokuša da objasni?
03:57
Well, for today I'd just like to think
of consciousness in two different ways.
of consciousness in two different ways.
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Pa, za danas bih voleo da mislim
o svesnosti na dva različita načina.
o svesnosti na dva različita načina.
04:01
There are experiences
of the world around us,
of the world around us,
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Postoje iskustva o svetu oko nas,
04:04
full of sights, sounds and smells,
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ispunjena prizorima, zvucima i mirisima,
04:06
there's multisensory, panoramic,
3D, fully immersive inner movie.
3D, fully immersive inner movie.
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imamo višesenzorni, panoramski,
3D, potpuno opčinjavajući unutrašnji film.
3D, potpuno opčinjavajući unutrašnji film.
04:11
And then there's conscious self.
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A potom imamo svesnog sebe.
04:13
The specific experience
of being you or being me.
of being you or being me.
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Specifično iskustvo postojanja
kao vi ili kao ja.
kao vi ili kao ja.
04:15
The lead character in this inner movie,
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Glavni lik u ovom unutrašnjem filmu,
04:17
and probably the aspect of consciousness
we all cling to most tightly.
we all cling to most tightly.
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i verovatno je to aspekt svesnosti
koga se najčvršće držimo.
koga se najčvršće držimo.
04:21
Let's start with experiences
of the world around us,
of the world around us,
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Počnimo sa iskustvom sveta oko nas,
04:24
and with the important idea
of the brain as a prediction engine.
of the brain as a prediction engine.
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i to sa važnom idejom
mozga kao mašine za nagađanje.
mozga kao mašine za nagađanje.
04:28
Imagine being a brain.
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Zamislite da ste mozak.
Zaključani ste u koščatoj lobanji,
04:30
You're locked inside a bony skull,
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pokušavate da shvatite
šta se dešava u spoljnom svetu.
šta se dešava u spoljnom svetu.
04:32
trying to figure
what's out there in the world.
what's out there in the world.
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04:34
There's no lights inside the skull.
There's no sound either.
There's no sound either.
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Nema svetla unutar lobanje. Nema ni zvuka.
04:37
All you've got to go on
is streams of electrical impulses
is streams of electrical impulses
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Sve čime se vodite
su bujice električnih impulsa
su bujice električnih impulsa
04:40
which are only indirectly related
to things in the world,
to things in the world,
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koji su samo indirektno povezani
sa stvarima u svetu,
sa stvarima u svetu,
04:43
whatever they may be.
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šta god one bile.
04:45
So perception --
figuring out what's there --
figuring out what's there --
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Dakle, percepcija -
razumevanje šta postoji -
razumevanje šta postoji -
04:47
has to be a process of informed guesswork
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mora da bude proces informisanog nagađanja
04:50
in which the brain combines
these sensory signals
these sensory signals
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u kojem mozak kombinuje
ove senzorne signale
ove senzorne signale
04:53
with its prior expectations or beliefs
about the way the world is
about the way the world is
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sa prethodnim očekivanjima ili ubeđenjima
o tome kakav je svet
o tome kakav je svet
da bi stvorio najbolju pretpostavku
o tome šta je uzrok tim signalima.
o tome šta je uzrok tim signalima.
04:57
to form its best guess
of what caused those signals.
of what caused those signals.
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05:00
The brain doesn't hear sound or see light.
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Mozak ne čuje zvuk, niti vidi svetlost.
05:03
What we perceive is its best guess
of what's out there in the world.
of what's out there in the world.
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Mi naziremo njegovu najbolju pretpostavku
toga šta se dešava u spoljnjem svetu.
toga šta se dešava u spoljnjem svetu.
05:09
Let me give you a couple
of examples of all this.
of examples of all this.
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Dozvolite da vam dam
nekoliko primera za ovo.
nekoliko primera za ovo.
05:12
You might have seen this illusion before,
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Možda ste već videli ovu iluziju,
05:14
but I'd like you to think
about it in a new way.
about it in a new way.
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ali želeo bih da razmislite
o njoj na nov način.
o njoj na nov način.
05:16
If you look at those two patches, A and B,
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Ako pogledate ove dve mrlje, A i B,
05:18
they should look to you to be
very different shades of gray, right?
very different shades of gray, right?
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trebalo bi da vam se čine
kao različite nijanse sive, zar ne?
kao različite nijanse sive, zar ne?
05:23
But they are in fact
exactly the same shade.
exactly the same shade.
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Ali one su zapravo poptuno iste nijanse.
05:26
And I can illustrate this.
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A ovo mogu da ilustrujem.
05:27
If I put up a second version
of the image here
of the image here
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Ako postavim drugu verziju slike ovde
05:29
and join the two patches
with a gray-colored bar,
with a gray-colored bar,
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i spojim dve mrlje
sivo obojenom pregradom,
sivo obojenom pregradom,
05:32
you can see there's no difference.
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vidite da nema razlike.
05:34
It's exactly the same shade of gray.
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Radi se o potpuno istoj nijansi sive.
05:36
And if you still don't believe me,
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A ako mi i dalje ne verujete,
05:37
I'll bring the bar across
and join them up.
and join them up.
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preneću pregradu ovamo i spojiti ih.
05:40
It's a single colored block of gray,
there's no difference at all.
there's no difference at all.
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Radi se o jednoj kocki sive,
uopšte nema razlike.
uopšte nema razlike.
05:44
This isn't any kind of magic trick.
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Ovde se ne radi o bilo kakvom triku.
05:46
It's the same shade of gray,
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Radi se o istoj nijansi sive,
05:47
but take it away again,
and it looks different.
and it looks different.
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ali ponovo ih udaljite,
i izgledaju različito.
i izgledaju različito.
05:51
So what's happening here
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Pa, ovde se dešava to
05:52
is that the brain
is using its prior expectations
is using its prior expectations
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da mozak koristi ranija očekivanja
05:55
built deeply into the circuits
of the visual cortex
of the visual cortex
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koja su duboko ugrađena
u tokove vizuelnog korteksa,
u tokove vizuelnog korteksa,
05:58
that a cast shadow dims
the appearance of a surface,
the appearance of a surface,
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da senka zamračuje izgled površine,
06:01
so that we see B as lighter
than it really is.
than it really is.
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te B vidimo svetlije
nego što zaista jeste.
nego što zaista jeste.
06:05
Here's one more example,
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Evo još jednog primera,
koji pokazuje koliko brzo
mozak može da koristi nova predviđanja
mozak može da koristi nova predviđanja
06:07
which shows just how quickly
the brain can use new predictions
the brain can use new predictions
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06:10
to change what we consciously experience.
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kako bi izmenio naše svesno iskustvo.
06:12
Have a listen to this.
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Poslušajte ovo.
06:15
(Distorted voice)
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(Izobličen glas)
06:19
Sounded strange, right?
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Zvučalo je čudno, zar ne?
06:20
Have a listen again
and see if you can get anything.
and see if you can get anything.
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Poslušajte opet i vidite da li možete
nešto da razumete.
nešto da razumete.
06:23
(Distorted voice)
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(Izobličen glas)
06:27
Still strange.
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I dalje je čudno.
06:29
Now listen to this.
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Sad poslušajte ovo.
06:30
(Recording) Anil Seth: I think Brexit
is a really terrible idea.
is a really terrible idea.
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(Snimak) Anil Set: Smatram da je Bregzit
uistinu grozna ideja.
uistinu grozna ideja.
06:34
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:35
Which I do.
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Slažem se.
06:36
So you heard some words there, right?
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Dakle, čuli ste tu neke reči, zar ne?
06:38
Now listen to the first sound again.
I'm just going to replay it.
I'm just going to replay it.
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Sad poslušajte prvi zvuk opet.
Prosto ću ga pustiti iznova.
Prosto ću ga pustiti iznova.
06:41
(Distorted voice)
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(Izobličen glas)
06:44
Yeah? So you can now hear words there.
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Da? Dakle, sad možete da čujete reči.
06:47
Once more for luck.
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Još jednom za sreću.
06:49
(Distorted voice)
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(Izobličen glas)
06:53
OK, so what's going on here?
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U redu, dakle, šta se ovde dešava?
06:55
The remarkable thing is the sensory
information coming into the brain
information coming into the brain
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Izvanredno je to što se
senzorna informacija koja stiže do mozga
senzorna informacija koja stiže do mozga
06:58
hasn't changed at all.
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nije uopšte promenila.
Samo se promenila
najbolja pretpostavka vašeg mozga
najbolja pretpostavka vašeg mozga
07:00
All that's changed
is your brain's best guess
is your brain's best guess
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07:03
of the causes of that sensory information.
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o uzroku te senzorne informacije.
07:05
And that changes
what you consciously hear.
what you consciously hear.
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A to menja ono što svesno čujete.
07:08
All this puts the brain
basis of perception
basis of perception
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Sve ovo na bazu percepcije mozga baca
07:11
in a bit of a different light.
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malčice drugačije svetlo.
07:13
Instead of perception depending largely
on signals coming into the brain
on signals coming into the brain
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Umesto da percepcija uveliko zavisi
od signala koji stižu u mozak
od signala koji stižu u mozak
07:17
from the outside world,
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iz spoljnjeg sveta,
07:18
it depends as much, if not more,
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podjednako zavisi, ako ne i više,
07:21
on perceptual predictions
flowing in the opposite direction.
flowing in the opposite direction.
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od perceptivnih predviđanja
koja teku u suprotnom smeru.
koja teku u suprotnom smeru.
07:26
We don't just passively
perceive the world,
perceive the world,
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Ne doživljavamo svet tek pasivno,
07:28
we actively generate it.
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aktivno ga stvaramo.
07:29
The world we experience
comes as much, if not more,
comes as much, if not more,
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Svet koji doživljavamo
podjednako, ako ne i više, dolazi
podjednako, ako ne i više, dolazi
07:32
from the inside out
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od unutra ka spolja
07:33
as from the outside in.
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kao i spolja ka unutra.
Dozvolite da vam dam
još jedan primer percepcije
još jedan primer percepcije
07:35
Let me give you
one more example of perception
one more example of perception
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07:37
as this active, constructive process.
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kao tog aktivnog, konstruktivnog procesa.
07:41
Here we've combined immersive
virtual reality with image processing
virtual reality with image processing
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Ovde smo kombinovali živopisnu
virtuelnu stvarnost i obradu slika
virtuelnu stvarnost i obradu slika
kako bismo simulirali efekte
prejakih perceptualnih predviđanja
prejakih perceptualnih predviđanja
07:46
to simulate the effects
of overly strong perceptual predictions
of overly strong perceptual predictions
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07:49
on experience.
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na iskustvo.
07:50
In this panoramic video,
we've transformed the world --
we've transformed the world --
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Na ovom panoramskom snimku
smo izobličili svet -
smo izobličili svet -
u ovom slučaju to je kampus u Soseksu -
07:53
which is in this case Sussex campus --
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07:55
into a psychedelic playground.
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u psihodelično igralište.
07:57
We've processed the footage using
an algorithm based on Google's Deep Dream
an algorithm based on Google's Deep Dream
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Obradili smo snimak upotrebom algoritma
zasnovanog na Guglovom Deep Dream-u
zasnovanog na Guglovom Deep Dream-u
08:01
to simulate the effects
of overly strong perceptual predictions.
of overly strong perceptual predictions.
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kako bismo simulirali efekte
preterano jakih perceptivnih predviđanja.
preterano jakih perceptivnih predviđanja.
08:05
In this case, to see dogs.
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U ovom slučaju da se vide psi.
08:07
And you can see
this is a very strange thing.
this is a very strange thing.
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I vidite da se radi o veoma čudnoj stvari.
08:09
When perceptual
predictions are too strong,
predictions are too strong,
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Kada su perceptivna predviđanja
suviše jaka,
suviše jaka,
08:11
as they are here,
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kao što i jesu ovde,
08:13
the result looks very much
like the kinds of hallucinations
like the kinds of hallucinations
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rezultati uveliko liče
na nekakve halucinacije
na nekakve halucinacije
08:16
people might report in altered states,
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o kojima govore ljudi izmenjene svesti
08:18
or perhaps even in psychosis.
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ili čak tokom psihoze.
08:21
Now, think about this for a minute.
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Sad, razmislite o tome na tren.
08:23
If hallucination is a kind
of uncontrolled perception,
of uncontrolled perception,
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Ako je halucinacija neki vid
nekontrolisane percepcije,
nekontrolisane percepcije,
08:28
then perception right here and right now
is also a kind of hallucination,
is also a kind of hallucination,
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onda je percepcija baš tu i baš sad
takođe neki vid halucinacije,
takođe neki vid halucinacije,
08:32
but a controlled hallucination
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ali kontrolisane halucinacije
08:34
in which the brain's predictions
are being reigned in
are being reigned in
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u kojoj su predviđanjima mozga ovladale
08:37
by sensory information from the world.
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senzorne informacije iz sveta.
08:40
In fact, we're all
hallucinating all the time,
hallucinating all the time,
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Zapravo svi mi haluciniramo sve vreme,
08:43
including right now.
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uključujući i sad.
Prosto se radi o tome
da kad se složimo oko naših halucinacija,
da kad se složimo oko naših halucinacija,
08:44
It's just that when we agree
about our hallucinations,
about our hallucinations,
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08:47
we call that reality.
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to nazivamo stvarnošću.
08:49
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
08:53
Now I'm going to tell you
that your experience of being a self,
that your experience of being a self,
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Sad ću da vam ispričam
da vaše iskustvo sopstva,
da vaše iskustvo sopstva,
08:56
the specific experience of being you,
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specifično iskustvo vašeg postojanja
08:58
is also a controlled hallucination
generated by the brain.
generated by the brain.
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takođe je kontrolisana halucinacija
koju proizvodi mozak.
koju proizvodi mozak.
09:01
This seems a very strange idea, right?
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Ovo se čini
kao veoma čudna zamisao, tačno?
kao veoma čudna zamisao, tačno?
Da, vizuelne iluzije
mi možda mogu obmanuti oči,
mi možda mogu obmanuti oči,
09:04
Yes, visual illusions
might deceive my eyes,
might deceive my eyes,
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09:06
but how could I be deceived
about what it means to be me?
about what it means to be me?
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ali kako mogu da budem obmanut
kod toga šta znači biti ja?
kod toga šta znači biti ja?
09:10
For most of us,
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Za većinu nas
09:11
the experience of being a person
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iskustvo toga da smo osobe
09:13
is so familiar, so unified
and so continuous
and so continuous
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je blisko, jedinstveno i tako trajno
09:15
that it's difficult
not to take it for granted.
not to take it for granted.
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da je teško ne uzeti ga olako.
09:17
But we shouldn't take it for granted.
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Ali ne bi trebalo da ga uzimamo olako.
09:19
There are in fact many different ways
we experience being a self.
we experience being a self.
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Zapravo postoje razni načini
na koje doživljavamo sebe.
na koje doživljavamo sebe.
09:22
There's the experience of having a body
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Tu je iskustvo posedovanja tela
09:24
and of being a body.
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i toga da smo telo.
09:26
There are experiences
of perceiving the world
of perceiving the world
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Imamo iskustva doživljavanja sveta
09:28
from a first person point of view.
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iz tačke gledišta u prvom licu.
09:30
There are experiences
of intending to do things
of intending to do things
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Imamo iskustva pokušavanja
bavljenja stvarima
bavljenja stvarima
09:32
and of being the cause of things
that happen in the world.
that happen in the world.
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i toga da smo uzrok stvarima
koje se dešavaju u svetu.
koje se dešavaju u svetu.
09:35
And there are experiences
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A tu su iskustva
09:36
of being a continuous
and distinctive person over time,
and distinctive person over time,
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da smo neprekidna
i karakteristična osoba u vremenu,
i karakteristična osoba u vremenu,
09:40
built from a rich set
of memories and social interactions.
of memories and social interactions.
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sagrađena iz bogatog skupa
sećanja i društvenih interakcija.
sećanja i društvenih interakcija.
Mnogi eksperimenti pokazuju,
09:44
Many experiments show,
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09:45
and psychiatrists
and neurologists know very well,
and neurologists know very well,
219
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a psihijatri i neurolozi
znaju veoma dobro,
znaju veoma dobro,
09:47
that these different ways
in which we experience being a self
in which we experience being a self
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da svi ti različiti načini
na koje doživljavamo sebe
na koje doživljavamo sebe
09:50
can all come apart.
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mogu da se razore.
09:52
What this means is
the basic background experience
the basic background experience
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Ovo znači da osnovno
iskustvo iz pozadine
iskustvo iz pozadine
09:55
of being a unified self is a rather
fragile construction of the brain.
fragile construction of the brain.
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da smo jedinstveno sopstvo
je krhka tvorevina mozga.
je krhka tvorevina mozga.
10:00
Another experience,
which just like all others,
which just like all others,
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Još jedno iskustvo,
koje baš kao sva druga,
koje baš kao sva druga,
10:02
requires explanation.
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zahteva objašnjenje.
10:04
So let's return to the bodily self.
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Zato okrenimo se telesnom sopstvu.
10:06
How does the brain generate
the experience of being a body
the experience of being a body
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Kako mozak proizvodi iskustvo
toga da je telo
toga da je telo
10:09
and of having a body?
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i da ima telo?
10:10
Well, just the same principles apply.
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Pa, važe potpuno isti principi.
Mozak pravi najbolju pretpostavku
10:12
The brain makes its best guess
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10:13
about what is and what is not
part of its body.
part of its body.
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o tome šta jeste, a šta nije
deo njegovog tela.
deo njegovog tela.
10:16
And there's a beautiful experiment
in neuroscience to illustrate this.
in neuroscience to illustrate this.
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A postoji prelep eksperiment
iz neuronauke koji ovo ilustruje.
iz neuronauke koji ovo ilustruje.
Nasuprot većini
eksperimenata iz neuronauke,
eksperimenata iz neuronauke,
10:20
And unlike most neuroscience experiments,
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1976
10:22
this is one you can do at home.
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ovaj možete da obavite kod kuće.
10:24
All you need is one of these.
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Samo vam je potrebno ovo.
10:26
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
10:27
And a couple of paintbrushes.
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I nekoliko četkica.
10:30
In the rubber hand illusion,
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U iluziji sa gumenom rukom,
10:32
a person's real hand is hidden from view,
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1976
stvarna ruka osobe je skrivena s videla,
10:34
and that fake rubber hand
is placed in front of them.
is placed in front of them.
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2616
a ta lažna gumena ruka
je stavljena ispred nje.
je stavljena ispred nje.
10:36
Then both hands are simultaneously
stroked with a paintbrush
stroked with a paintbrush
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Potom obe ruke istovremeno
maze četkicom,
maze četkicom,
10:40
while the person stares at the fake hand.
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dok osoba zuri u lažnu ruku.
10:43
Now, for most people, after a while,
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1976
Sad, većini ljudi, posle nekog vremena,
10:45
this leads to the very uncanny sensation
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ovo uzrokuje veoma neprirodan osećaj
10:47
that the fake hand
is in fact part of their body.
is in fact part of their body.
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da je lažna ruka
zapravo deo njihovog tela.
zapravo deo njihovog tela.
10:51
And the idea is that the congruence
between seeing touch and feeling touch
between seeing touch and feeling touch
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A zamisao je da podudarnost
između viđenja dodira i osećaja dodira
između viđenja dodira i osećaja dodira
10:55
on an object that looks like hand
and is roughly where a hand should be,
and is roughly where a hand should be,
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na predmetu koji izgleda kao ruka
i otprilike je gde bi ruka trebalo da bude
i otprilike je gde bi ruka trebalo da bude
11:00
is enough evidence for the brain
to make its best guess
to make its best guess
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je dovoljan dokaz za mozak
da napravi najbolju pretpostavku
da napravi najbolju pretpostavku
11:03
that the fake hand
is in fact part of the body.
is in fact part of the body.
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da je lažna ruka zapravo deo tela.
11:06
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
11:15
So you can measure
all kinds of clever things.
all kinds of clever things.
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Stoga možete da merite
razne pametne stvari.
razne pametne stvari.
11:17
You can measure skin conductance
and startle responses,
and startle responses,
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Možete da merite provodljivost kože
i zapanjene reakcije,
i zapanjene reakcije,
11:20
but there's no need.
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ali nema potrebe za tim.
11:22
It's clear the guy in blue
has assimilated the fake hand.
has assimilated the fake hand.
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Jasno je da se momak u plavom
srodio sa lažnom rukom.
srodio sa lažnom rukom.
11:25
This means that even experiences
of what our body is
of what our body is
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Ovo znači da su čak i iskustva
o tome šta je naše telo
o tome šta je naše telo
11:28
is a kind of best guessing --
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nekakva najbolja pretpostavka -
11:30
a kind of controlled
hallucination by the brain.
hallucination by the brain.
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nekakva kontrolisana halucinacija mozga.
11:33
There's one more thing.
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Ima još nešto.
11:36
We don't just experience our bodies
as objects in the world from the outside,
as objects in the world from the outside,
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Mi ne doživljavamo samo naša tela
kao predmete iz spoljnjeg sveta,
kao predmete iz spoljnjeg sveta,
11:39
we also experience them from within.
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takođe ih doživljavamo iznutra.
11:41
We all experience the sense
of being a body from the inside.
of being a body from the inside.
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Svi iznutra doživljavamo
iskustvo telesnosti.
iskustvo telesnosti.
11:47
And sensory signals
coming from the inside of the body
coming from the inside of the body
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A senzorni signali
koji stižu iz unutrašnjosti tela
koji stižu iz unutrašnjosti tela
11:49
are continually telling the brain
about the state of the internal organs,
about the state of the internal organs,
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stalno obaveštavaju mozak
o stanju unutrašnjih organa,
o stanju unutrašnjih organa,
11:53
how the heart is doing,
what the blood pressure is like,
what the blood pressure is like,
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šta se dešava sa srcem,
kakav je krvni pritisak,
kakav je krvni pritisak,
11:56
lots of things.
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svašta nešto.
11:57
This kind of perception,
which we call interoception,
which we call interoception,
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Ovaj vid percepcije,
koju nazivamo interopercepcijom,
koju nazivamo interopercepcijom,
12:00
is rather overlooked.
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prilično je zanemaren.
12:02
But it's critically important
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Ali je od ključnog značaja
12:03
because perception and regulation
of the internal state of the body --
of the internal state of the body --
269
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jer percepcija i regulacija
unutrašnjeg stanja tela -
unutrašnjeg stanja tela -
12:06
well, that's what keeps us alive.
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pa, to nas drži u životu.
12:09
Here's another version
of the rubber hand illusion.
of the rubber hand illusion.
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Evo još jedne verzije
iluzije sa gumenom rukom.
iluzije sa gumenom rukom.
12:11
This is from our lab at Sussex.
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Iz naše laboratorije u Soseksu.
12:13
And here, people see
a virtual reality version of their hand,
a virtual reality version of their hand,
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A ovde ljudi vide verziju
virtuelne stvarnosti njihove ruke,
virtuelne stvarnosti njihove ruke,
12:16
which flashes red and back
274
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koja blešti crveno i nazad
12:18
either in time or out of time
with their heartbeat.
with their heartbeat.
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bilo istovremeno ili ne
sa njihovim otkucajima srca.
sa njihovim otkucajima srca.
A kad blešti istovremeno
sa njihovim otkucajima srca,
sa njihovim otkucajima srca,
12:21
And when it's flashing
in time with their heartbeat,
in time with their heartbeat,
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12:23
people have a stronger sense
that it's in fact part of their body.
that it's in fact part of their body.
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ljudi imaju snažniji osećaj
da je to zapravo deo njihovog tela.
da je to zapravo deo njihovog tela.
12:27
So experiences of having a body
are deeply grounded
are deeply grounded
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Dakle, iskustva posedovanja tela
su duboko zasnovana
su duboko zasnovana
12:31
in perceiving our bodies from within.
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na doživljaju naših tela iznutra.
12:35
There's one last thing
I want to draw your attention to,
I want to draw your attention to,
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Na kraju želim
da vam skrenem pažnju na nešto
da vam skrenem pažnju na nešto
12:38
which is that experiences of the body
from the inside are very different
from the inside are very different
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a to je da su unutrašnja
iskustva tela veoma različita
iskustva tela veoma različita
12:42
from experiences of the world around us.
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od iskustava o svetu oko nas.
12:44
When I look around me,
the world seems full of objects --
the world seems full of objects --
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Kad pogledam oko sebe,
čini se da je svet pun predmeta -
čini se da je svet pun predmeta -
12:46
tables, chairs, rubber hands,
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stolovi, stolice, gumene ruke,
12:49
people, you lot --
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ljudi, skupina vas -
12:50
even my own body in the world,
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čak i sopstveno telo u svetu,
12:52
I can perceive it
as an object from the outside.
as an object from the outside.
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mogu da ga doživljavam
kao spoljašnji predmet.
kao spoljašnji predmet.
12:55
But my experiences
of the body from within,
of the body from within,
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Ali moja unutrašnja iskustva tela,
12:57
they're not like that at all.
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uopšte nisu takva.
12:58
I don't perceive my kidneys here,
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Ne osećam da su mi bubrezi tu,
13:00
my liver here,
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jetra tu,
13:02
my spleen ...
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slezina...
13:03
I don't know where my spleen is,
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Pojma nemam gde mi je slezina,
13:05
but it's somewhere.
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ali negde jeste.
Ne doživljavam
delove utrobe kao predmete.
delove utrobe kao predmete.
13:06
I don't perceive my insides as objects.
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13:08
In fact, I don't experience them
much at all unless they go wrong.
much at all unless they go wrong.
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Zapravo ih uopšte naročito ne doživljavam,
ukoliko ne krenu po zlu.
ukoliko ne krenu po zlu.
13:13
And this is important, I think.
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A to je važno, verujem.
13:15
Perception of the internal
state of the body
state of the body
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Percepcija unutrašnjeg stanja tela
13:17
isn't about figuring out what's there,
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nije o tome da shvatite šta tu ima,
13:19
it's about control and regulation --
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radi se o kontroli i regulaciji -
13:21
keeping the physiological variables
within the tight bounds
within the tight bounds
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održavanje fizioloških varijabli
unutar strogih ograničenja
unutar strogih ograničenja
13:25
that are compatible with survival.
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koja su podudarna sa opstankom.
13:28
When the brain uses predictions
to figure out what's there,
to figure out what's there,
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Kada mozak koristi pretpostavke
da shvati šta postoji,
da shvati šta postoji,
13:31
we perceive objects
as the causes of sensations.
as the causes of sensations.
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doživljavamo predmete kao uzroke osećanja.
13:34
When the brain uses predictions
to control and regulate things,
to control and regulate things,
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Kada mozak koristi pretpostavke
da kontroliše i reguliše stvari,
da kontroliše i reguliše stvari,
13:38
we experience how well
or how badly that control is going.
or how badly that control is going.
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doživljavamo koliko dobro
ili koliko loše se ta kontrola odvija.
ili koliko loše se ta kontrola odvija.
13:41
So our most basic experiences
of being a self,
of being a self,
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Te su naša najosnovnija iskustva sebe,
13:44
of being an embodied organism,
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toga da smo otelotvoreni organizam,
13:46
are deeply grounded in the biological
mechanisms that keep us alive.
mechanisms that keep us alive.
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duboko su ukorenjena u biološkim
mehanizmima koji nas održavaju u životu.
mehanizmima koji nas održavaju u životu.
13:52
And when we follow this idea
all the way through,
all the way through,
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A kada sledimo ovu zamisao do kraja,
13:55
we can start to see
that all of our conscious experiences,
that all of our conscious experiences,
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počinjemo da uviđamo
da su sva naša svesna iskustva,
da su sva naša svesna iskustva,
13:58
since they all depend on the same
mechanisms of predictive perception,
mechanisms of predictive perception,
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pošto sva zavise od istih mehanizama
predviđajuće percepcije,
predviđajuće percepcije,
14:03
all stem from this basic
drive to stay alive.
drive to stay alive.
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sva izviru iz ovog osnovnog nagona
za preživljavanjem.
za preživljavanjem.
14:07
We experience the world and ourselves
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Doživljavamo sve i sebe same
14:09
with, through and because of
our living bodies.
our living bodies.
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preko, kroz i zahvaljujući
našim živim telima.
našim živim telima.
14:13
Let me bring things together step-by-step.
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Dozvolite da sve sastavim korak po korak.
14:16
What we consciously see depends
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Ono što svesno vidimo zavisi
od najboljih nagađanja mozga
o tome šta ima tu.
o tome šta ima tu.
14:18
on the brain's best guess
of what's out there.
of what's out there.
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14:20
Our experienced world
comes from the inside out,
comes from the inside out,
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Naše iskustvo sveta
dolazi iz unutra ka spolja,
dolazi iz unutra ka spolja,
14:22
not just the outside in.
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a ne samo spolja ka unutra.
Iluzija sa gumenom rukom pokazuje
da se ovo odnosi na sva naša iskustva
da se ovo odnosi na sva naša iskustva
14:24
The rubber hand illusion shows
that this applies to our experiences
that this applies to our experiences
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14:27
of what is and what is not our body.
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o tome šta jeste, a šta nije naše telo.
14:30
And these self-related predictions
depend critically on sensory signals
depend critically on sensory signals
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A ova nagađanja u vezi s nama
zavise suštinski od senzornih signala
zavise suštinski od senzornih signala
14:34
coming from deep inside the body.
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koji dolaze iz dubine naših tela.
14:36
And finally,
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I, naposletku,
14:37
experiences of being an embodied self
are more about control and regulation
are more about control and regulation
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kod iskustava da smo otelotvoreno sopstvo
se više radi o kontroli i regulaciji
se više radi o kontroli i regulaciji
14:42
than figuring out what's there.
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nego o razumevanju toga šta ima tu.
14:44
So our experiences of the world
around us and ourselves within it --
around us and ourselves within it --
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Te su naša iskustva
sveta oko nas i nas u njemu -
sveta oko nas i nas u njemu -
14:48
well, they're kinds
of controlled hallucinations
of controlled hallucinations
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pa, radi se o vidovima
kontrolisanih halucinacija
kontrolisanih halucinacija
14:50
that have been shaped
over millions of years of evolution
over millions of years of evolution
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koje su oblikovane
milionima godina evolucije
milionima godina evolucije
14:53
to keep us alive in worlds
full of danger and opportunity.
full of danger and opportunity.
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kako bismo opstali u svetovima
punim opasnosti i šansi.
punim opasnosti i šansi.
14:56
We predict ourselves into existence.
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Nagađanjem stvaramo postojanje.
15:00
Now, I leave you with three
implications of all this.
implications of all this.
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Sad, ostavljam vas
sa tri implikacije o svemu ovome.
sa tri implikacije o svemu ovome.
Prvo: baš kao što možemo
da pogrešno doživimo svet,
da pogrešno doživimo svet,
15:03
First, just as we can
misperceive the world,
misperceive the world,
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15:05
we can misperceive ourselves
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možemo pogrešno i da doživimo sebe
15:07
when the mechanisms
of prediction go wrong.
of prediction go wrong.
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kada mehanizmi nagađanja krenu po zlu.
15:09
Understanding this opens many new
opportunities in psychiatry and neurology,
opportunities in psychiatry and neurology,
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Razumevanje ovoga otvara mnoge nove
šanse u psihijatriji i neurologiji
šanse u psihijatriji i neurologiji
15:14
because we can finally
get at the mechanisms
get at the mechanisms
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jer konačno možemo
da se bavimo mehanizmima,
da se bavimo mehanizmima,
15:16
rather than just treating the symptoms
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a ne samo da lečimo simptome,
15:18
in conditions like
depression and schizophrenia.
depression and schizophrenia.
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kod stanja poput depresije i šizofrenije.
15:21
Second:
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Drugo:
15:22
what it means to be me
cannot be reduced to or uploaded to
cannot be reduced to or uploaded to
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šta znači biti ja
ne može da se svede ili učita
ne može da se svede ili učita
15:26
a software program running on a robot,
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na softverski program koji pokreće robota,
15:29
however smart or sophisticated.
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koliko god bio pametan i prefinjen.
15:31
We are biological, flesh-and-blood animals
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Mi smo biološke, od krvi i mesa životinje
15:34
whose conscious experiences
are shaped at all levels
are shaped at all levels
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čija se svesna iskustva
oblikuju na svim nivoima
oblikuju na svim nivoima
15:37
by the biological mechanisms
that keep us alive.
that keep us alive.
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od strane bioloških mehanizama
koji nas održavaju u životu.
koji nas održavaju u životu.
15:40
Just making computers smarter
is not going to make them sentient.
is not going to make them sentient.
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To što pravimo sve pametnije kompjutere,
neće ih učiniti svesnim.
neće ih učiniti svesnim.
15:45
Finally,
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Konačno:
15:46
our own individual inner universe,
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naš individualni unutrašnji univerzum,
15:48
our way of being conscious,
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naš vid svesnosti,
15:50
is just one possible
way of being conscious.
way of being conscious.
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tek je jedan mogući vid svesnosti.
15:53
And even human consciousness generally --
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A čak i ljudska svesnost uopšteno -
15:55
it's just a tiny region in a vast space
of possible consciousnesses.
of possible consciousnesses.
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tek je sićušna oblast u beskrajnom
prostoru mogućih svesti.
prostoru mogućih svesti.
15:59
Our individual self and worlds
are unique to each of us,
are unique to each of us,
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Naše individualno sopstvo i svetovi
su jedinstveni za svakog od nas,
su jedinstveni za svakog od nas,
16:03
but they're all grounded
in biological mechanisms
in biological mechanisms
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ali svi su zasnovani
na biološkim mehanizmima
na biološkim mehanizmima
16:06
shared with many other living creatures.
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koje delimo sa mnogim drugim živim bićima.
16:09
Now, these are fundamental changes
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Sad, ovo su temeljne promene
16:13
in how we understand ourselves,
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u tome kako razumemo sebe,
16:16
but I think they should be celebrated,
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ali mislim da bi ih trebalo slaviti
16:17
because as so often in science,
from Copernicus --
from Copernicus --
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jer, kao što prečesto biva u nauci,
od Kopernika -
od Kopernika -
16:20
we're not at the center of the universe --
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mi nismo u središtu univerzuma -
16:22
to Darwin --
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preko Darvina -
16:23
we're related to all other creatures --
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u srodstvu smo sa svim drugim bićima -
16:25
to the present day.
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do današnjeg dana.
16:28
With a greater sense of understanding
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Sa snažnijim osećajem razumevanja
16:31
comes a greater sense of wonder,
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dolazi snažnije osećanje čuđenja
16:33
and a greater realization
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i snažnije uviđanje
16:35
that we are part of
and not apart from the rest of nature.
and not apart from the rest of nature.
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da smo deo, da nismo odvojeni
od ostatka prirode.
od ostatka prirode.
16:40
And ...
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I...
16:42
when the end of consciousness comes,
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kada dođe kraj svesnosti,
16:45
there's nothing to be afraid of.
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nemamo čega da se plašimo.
16:48
Nothing at all.
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Baš ničega.
16:50
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
16:51
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Anil Seth - Cognitive neuroscientistHow can the "inner universe" of consciousness be explained in terms of mere biology and physics? Anil Seth explores the brain basis of consciousness and self.
Why you should listen
In his groundbreaking research, Anil Seth seeks to understand consciousness in health and in disease. As founding co-director of the University of Sussex’s Sackler Centre for Consciousness Science, his research bridges neuroscience, mathematics, artificial intelligence, computer science, psychology, philosophy and psychiatry. He has also worked extensively with playwrights, dancers and other artists to shape a truly humanistic view of consciousness and self.
Seth is the editor and co-author of the best-selling 30-Second Brain, a collection of brief and engaging neuroscience vignettes. His forthcoming book The Presence Chamber develops his unique theories of conscious selfhood within the rich historical context of the mind and brain sciences.
Follow Seth on Twitter at @anilkseth, and visit his website at anilseth.com and neurobanter.com. The Sackler Centre, at the University of Sussex, is at sussex.ac.uk/sackler. Seth's work is supported by the Dr. Mortimer and Theresa Sackler Foundation.
Anil Seth | Speaker | TED.com