TEDxBrisbane
George Blair-West: 3 ways to build a happy marriage and avoid divorce
乔治 · 布莱尔-韦斯特: 打造幸福婚姻，避免离婚的三个方法
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选择结婚并与某人分享你的生活，是你一生中所能做的最重要的决定之一。但是随着世界上一些地区的离婚率达到了近50%，很明显我们可以在选择伴侣的时候听取一些建议。心理学家乔治 · 布莱尔-韦斯特在一段可付诸行动的、令人大开眼界的演讲中与我们分享了防止离婚的三个关键——并如何在约会期间就发现潜在的问题。
George Blair-West - Psychiatrist
Dr. George Blair-West is an author, researcher and doctor specializing in psychiatry. Full bio
Dr. George Blair-West is an author, researcher and doctor specializing in psychiatry. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
差不多五十年前，
00:15
Almost 50 years ago,
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精神病学家理查德 · 赖特
和托马斯 · 赫姆斯列出了一份清单，
和托马斯 · 赫姆斯列出了一份清单，
00:17
psychiatrists Richard Rahe
and Thomas Holmes developed an inventory
and Thomas Holmes developed an inventory
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包含了我们所能拥有的
最痛苦的人类经历。
最痛苦的人类经历。
00:22
of the most distressing
human experiences that we could have.
human experiences that we could have.
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00:28
Number one on the list? Death of a spouse.
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排名第一的是配偶的去世。
第二：离婚。
第三：婚内分居。
第三：婚内分居。
00:32
Number two, divorce.
Three, marital separation.
Three, marital separation.
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通常是这样，但并非总是如此，
00:35
Now, generally, but not always,
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要让这三件事情发生，我们
需要先实现名单上的第七条，
需要先实现名单上的第七条，
00:38
for those three to occur, we need
what comes in number seven on the list,
what comes in number seven on the list,
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也就是婚姻。
00:42
which is marriage.
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（笑声）
00:44
(Laughter)
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00:46
Fourth on the list is imprisonment
in an institution.
in an institution.
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名单上的第四条是在监狱里被监禁。
有人会说第七条已经算了两次。
（译者注：将婚姻比做囚牢）
（译者注：将婚姻比做囚牢）
00:51
Now, some say number seven
has been counted twice.
has been counted twice.
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（笑声）
00:54
(Laughter)
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00:58
I don't believe that.
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对此我并不认同。
01:00
When the life stress inventory was built,
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在这份生活压力清单
诞生的那个年代，
诞生的那个年代，
一个长期的关系几乎等同于婚姻。
01:04
back then, a long-term relationship
pretty much equated to a marriage.
pretty much equated to a marriage.
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现在情况已经不同了，
01:10
Not so now.
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为了本次演讲的目的，我将会考虑
01:11
So for the purposes of this talk,
I'm going to be including
I'm going to be including
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01:16
de facto relationships,
common-law marriages
common-law marriages
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同居关系，事实婚姻，
以及同性婚姻，
01:18
and same-sex marriages,
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01:21
or same-sex relationships
soon hopefully to become marriages.
soon hopefully to become marriages.
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或者说同性关系，
希望很快会成为婚姻。
希望很快会成为婚姻。
01:26
And I can say from my work
with same-sex couples,
with same-sex couples,
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基于我与若干对同性伴侣的合作，
01:28
the principles I'm about
to talk about are no different.
to talk about are no different.
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我要谈的原则没有什么不同，
01:32
They're the same across all relationships.
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它们在所有关系中都适用。
在现代社会中，
01:35
So in a modern society,
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01:38
we know that prevention
is better than cure.
is better than cure.
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我们知道预防胜于治疗。
01:42
We vaccinate against polio, diphtheria,
tetanus, whooping cough, measles.
tetanus, whooping cough, measles.
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我们接种疫苗预防脊髓灰质炎，
白喉，破伤风，百日咳，麻疹。
白喉，破伤风，百日咳，麻疹。
01:47
We have awareness campaigns
for melanoma, stroke, diabetes --
for melanoma, stroke, diabetes --
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我们还开展了关于黑色素瘤、
中风、糖尿病的认知运动。
中风、糖尿病的认知运动。
这些都是重要的运动，
01:51
all important campaigns.
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01:54
But none of those conditions come close
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但其中没有一项
01:58
to affecting 45 percent of us.
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能影响接近45%的人口。
45%。 这就是我们目前的离婚率。
02:02
Forty-five percent: that's
our current divorce rate.
our current divorce rate.
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为什么没有预防离婚的运动？
02:06
Why no prevention campaign for divorce?
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02:11
Well, I think it's because
our policymakers don't believe
our policymakers don't believe
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我认为这是因为我们的
政策制定者不相信
政策制定者不相信
02:17
that things like attraction
and the way relationships are built
and the way relationships are built
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吸引力和建立关系的方式是
可以改变的，或者可以教育的。
02:22
is changeable or educable.
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为什么呢？
02:25
Why?
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事实上，目前我们的
政策制定者是X一代，
政策制定者是X一代，
02:27
Well, our policymakers currently
are Generation X.
are Generation X.
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他们的年龄在 30 至 60 岁。
02:31
They're in their 30s to 50s.
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02:34
And when I'm talking to these guys
about these issues,
about these issues,
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当我和这些人谈论这些问题时，
我看到他们一脸茫然，
02:38
I see their eyes glaze over,
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很显然他们在想：
02:40
and I can see them thinking,
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02:42
"Doesn't this crazy psychiatrist get it?
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“难道这个疯狂的
精神病学家不明白吗？
精神病学家不明白吗？
你不能控制人们相互吸引
02:45
You can't control the way in which
people attract other people
people attract other people
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02:49
and build relationships."
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和建立关系的方式。”
02:52
Not so, our dear millennials.
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而对我们亲爱的千禧一代
来说并不是这样。
来说并不是这样。
02:55
This is the most information-connected,
analytical and skeptical generation,
analytical and skeptical generation,
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这是信息联系最紧密、分析能力最强、
最具怀疑精神的一代，
最具怀疑精神的一代，
相比之前的任何一代人，
他们能做出最明智的决定。
他们能做出最明智的决定。
03:01
making the most informed decisions
of any generation before them.
of any generation before them.
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当我和千禧一代交谈时，
我得到了一个非常不同的反应。
我得到了一个非常不同的反应。
03:06
And when I talk to millennials,
I get a very different reaction.
I get a very different reaction.
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他们乐意洗耳恭听。
03:10
They actually want to hear about this.
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他们想知道我们该如何
维持长久的关系。
维持长久的关系。
03:12
They want to know about how do we
have relationships that last?
have relationships that last?
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所以，对于那些想和我一起
拥抱“后浪漫命运”时代的人，
拥抱“后浪漫命运”时代的人，
03:18
So for those of you who want to embrace
the post- "romantic destiny" era with me,
the post- "romantic destiny" era with me,
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03:23
let me talk about my three life hacks
for preventing divorce.
for preventing divorce.
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不妨听我说说三个
防止离婚的生活技巧。
防止离婚的生活技巧。
03:28
Now, we can intervene
to prevent divorce at two points:
to prevent divorce at two points:
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我们可以在两个时间点
进行干预，以防止离婚：
进行干预，以防止离婚：
03:32
later, once the cracks begin to appear
in an established relationship;
in an established relationship;
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在后期，当一个确定的
关系出现了裂缝；
关系出现了裂缝；
03:37
or earlier, before we commit,
before we have children.
before we have children.
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或者在早期，在我们做出
承诺之前，生孩子之前，
承诺之前，生孩子之前，
这就是我现在要讨论的时期。
03:42
And that's where I'm going to take us now.
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我的第一个生活技巧：
03:46
So my first life hack:
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03:48
millennials spend seven-plus hours
on their devices a day.
on their devices a day.
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千禧一代每天花在电子设备上的
时间达到了七小时以上。
时间达到了七小时以上。
这是美国的数据。
03:54
That's American data.
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03:56
And some say, probably not unreasonably,
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有人说，该说法可能不无道理，
这可能会影响他们面对面时的关系。
03:58
this has probably affected
their face-to-face relationships.
their face-to-face relationships.
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04:03
Indeed, and add to that
the hookup culture,
the hookup culture,
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的确，而且这种“牵线文化”催生了
像Tinder这样的应用程序，
04:06
ergo apps like Tinder,
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04:08
and it's no great surprise that
the 20-somethings that I work with
the 20-somethings that I work with
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这也难怪，与我合作的
那些 20 多岁的年轻人
那些 20 多岁的年轻人
往往会和我谈到，
相比展开一次有意义的对话，
相比展开一次有意义的对话，
04:12
will often talk to me about
how it is often easier for them
how it is often easier for them
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跟遇到的人直接发生性关系，
04:16
to have sex with somebody that they've met
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04:18
than have a meaningful conversation.
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常常更容易。
04:21
Now, some say this is a bad thing.
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有人说这是件坏事儿。
我却说这真是一件好事儿。
04:24
I say this is a really good thing.
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在婚姻制度之外发生性关系
04:28
It's a particularly good thing
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尤其是件好事儿。
04:31
to be having sex outside
of the institution of marriage.
of the institution of marriage.
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04:35
Now, before you go out
and get all moral on me,
and get all moral on me,
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不过在你开始评论我的道德观之前，
04:38
remember that Generation X,
in the American Public Report,
in the American Public Report,
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别忘了，在《美国公共报告》中，
他们发现 X 一代中
有 91% 的女性在 30 岁之前
有 91% 的女性在 30 岁之前
04:42
they found that 91 percent of women
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有过婚前性行为。
04:45
had had premarital sex by the age of 30.
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91%。
04:48
Ninety-one percent.
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这些关系在较晚的时候
发生尤其是个好现象。
发生尤其是个好现象。
04:51
It's a particularly good thing that
these relationships are happening later.
these relationships are happening later.
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04:56
See, boomers in the '60s --
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想想看，60 年代婴儿潮
时期出生的人们——
时期出生的人们——
04:59
they were getting married
at an average age for women of 20
at an average age for women of 20
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他们结婚时女性平均为20 岁，
男性为 23 岁。
05:03
and 23 for men.
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2015 年澳大利亚的数据表明，
05:05
2015 in Australia?
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05:07
That is now 30 for women and 32 for men.
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女性婚龄推迟到了30岁，男性是32岁。
05:13
That's a good thing, because
the older you are when you get married,
the older you are when you get married,
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这是件好事，因为你越是晚婚，
05:19
the lower your divorce rate.
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离婚率就越低。
为什么呢？
05:21
Why?
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为什么晚婚有助于维持婚姻？
05:22
Why is it helpful to get married later?
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有三个原因。
05:24
Three reasons.
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首先，晚婚可以让
防止离婚的另外两个因素
防止离婚的另外两个因素
05:25
Firstly, getting married later allows
the other two preventers of divorce
the other two preventers of divorce
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05:30
to come into play.
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发挥作用，
即高等教育，
05:31
They are tertiary education
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和较高的收入，这样的人
也往往愿意与高学历的人结婚。
也往往愿意与高学历的人结婚。
05:34
and a higher income, which tends
to go with tertiary education.
to go with tertiary education.
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这三个因素几乎是交织在一起的。
05:38
So these three factors all
kind of get mixed up together.
kind of get mixed up together.
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第二：
05:41
Number two,
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神经可塑性研究告诉我们，
05:42
neuroplasticity research tell us
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人类的大脑在 25 岁之前仍然在发育。
05:44
that the human brain is still growing
until at least the age of 25.
until at least the age of 25.
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这意味着你的思维方式
以及你所思考的事物
以及你所思考的事物
05:51
So that means how you're thinking
and what you're thinking
and what you're thinking
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在 25 岁之前都是不断变化的。
05:54
is still changing up until 25.
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05:57
And thirdly, and most importantly
to my mind, is personality.
to my mind, is personality.
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第三，对我来说最重要的是人格。
你在 20 岁时的人格
06:00
Your personality at the age of 20
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与 50 岁时的人格并不相关。
06:03
does not correlate with
your personality at the age of 50.
your personality at the age of 50.
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06:07
But your personality at the age of 30
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但是你在 30 岁时的人格
06:09
does correlate with
your personality at the age of 50.
your personality at the age of 50.
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与50 岁时的人格有关。
所以，当我问一个早婚的人
他们为什么分手，
他们为什么分手，
06:13
So when I ask somebody
who got married young why they broke up,
who got married young why they broke up,
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他们会说，“我们都变了。”
06:16
and they say, "We grew apart,"
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真是一语中的，
06:18
they're being surprisingly accurate,
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因为 20 多岁正是人们
迅速变化和成熟的十年。
迅速变化和成熟的十年。
06:20
because the 20s is a decade
of rapid change and maturation.
of rapid change and maturation.
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所以你在结婚前想做的
第一件事就是变老。
第一件事就是变老。
06:25
So the first thing you want to get
before you get married is older.
before you get married is older.
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06:30
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
第二。
06:34
Number two,
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心理学家和关系研究员约翰 · 戈特曼
06:35
John Gottman, psychologist
and relationship researcher,
and relationship researcher,
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06:40
can tell us many factors that correlate
with a happy, successful marriage.
with a happy, successful marriage.
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可以告诉我们许多与幸福和
成功的婚姻相关的因素。
成功的婚姻相关的因素。
06:46
But the one that I want to talk about
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但我想谈的是个
很大的因素。
06:48
is a big one:
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存在这个问题的婚姻中
有80%会破裂并走向终结。
有80%会破裂并走向终结。
06:50
81 percent of marriages implode,
self-destruct, if this problem is present.
self-destruct, if this problem is present.
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06:56
And the second reason why I want
to talk about it here
to talk about it here
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我想在这里谈论它，
是因为你在约会时就可以对它进行评估。
06:59
is because it's something
you can evaluate while you're dating.
you can evaluate while you're dating.
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戈特曼发现，在那些最稳定和辛福的
07:03
Gottman found that the relationships
that were the most stable and happy
that were the most stable and happy
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07:08
over the longer term
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长期关系中，
07:10
were relationships in which
the couple shared power.
the couple shared power.
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夫妻双方会共享权力。
07:14
They were influenceable:
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他们相互影响：
在大决定的决定上，比如
买房子，出国旅行，买车，
买房子，出国旅行，买车，
07:18
big decisions, like buying a house,
overseas trips, buying a car,
overseas trips, buying a car,
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生孩子。
07:23
having children.
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07:24
But when Gottman
drilled down on this data,
drilled down on this data,
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但是当戈特曼
深入研究这些数据时，
深入研究这些数据时，
他发现女性通常
都是易受影响的。
都是易受影响的。
07:27
what he found was that women
were generally pretty influenceable.
were generally pretty influenceable.
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07:33
Guess where the problem lay?
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猜猜问题在哪里？
07:35
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
没错，这里只有两个选择。
07:36
Yeah, there's only
two options here, isn't there?
two options here, isn't there?
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是的，责任在我们男人身上。
07:39
Yeah, we men were to blame.
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戈特曼发现的另一件事是，
07:42
The other thing that Gottman found
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愿意被影响的男人
07:44
is that men who are influenceable
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07:48
also tended to be "outstanding fathers."
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也往往被认为是 “杰出的父亲。”
07:53
So women: How influenceable is your man?
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那么女士们，你的男人
有多么愿意受你影响？
有多么愿意受你影响？
07:58
Men:
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先生们：
你和她在一起，因为你尊重她。
08:03
you're with her because you respect her.
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请确保你在做决定时
也会带着这样的尊重。
也会带着这样的尊重。
08:07
Make sure that respect plays out
in the decision-making process.
in the decision-making process.
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第三。
08:14
Number three.
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我常常很好奇，为什么那些夫妻
08:19
I'm often intrigued by
why couples come in to see me
why couples come in to see me
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在结婚了三四十年之后才来找我。
08:23
after they've been married
for 30 or 40 years.
for 30 or 40 years.
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08:26
This is a time when they're approaching
the infirmities and illness of old age.
the infirmities and illness of old age.
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在这段时期，他们正在经历
高龄带来的衰弱和疾病，
高龄带来的衰弱和疾病，
也正是在这段时期，
他们特别专注于彼此照顾。
他们特别专注于彼此照顾。
08:31
It's a time when they're particularly
focused on caring for each other.
focused on caring for each other.
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他们会原谅多年来困扰他们的事。
08:37
They'll forgive things
that have bugged them for years.
that have bugged them for years.
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他们会原谅旧日的背叛甚至不忠，
08:40
They'll forgive all betrayals,
even infidelities,
even infidelities,
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08:43
because they're focused
on caring for each other.
on caring for each other.
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因为他们专注于彼此关怀。
那么是什么把他们分开了呢？
08:46
So what pulls them apart?
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对此，我能想到的
最恰当的词是可靠性，
最恰当的词是可靠性，
08:47
The best word I have
for this is reliability,
for this is reliability,
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08:50
or the lack thereof.
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或缺乏可靠性。
你的伴侣支持你吗？
08:52
Does your partner have your back?
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支持有两种形式。
08:54
It takes two forms.
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08:55
Firstly, can you rely on your partner
to do what they say they're going to do?
to do what they say they're going to do?
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首先，你相信你的伴侣
会说到做到吗？
会说到做到吗？
他们会坚持到底吗？
09:01
Do they follow through?
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09:03
Secondly,
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其次，
比如说，
09:06
if, for example,
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如果你出门在外被人用言辞羞辱，
09:08
you're out and you're being
verbally attacked by somebody,
verbally attacked by somebody,
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或者你患有一种
让你生活无法自理的疾病，
让你生活无法自理的疾病，
09:10
or you're suffering from
a really disabling illness,
a really disabling illness,
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你的伴侣是否会做出相应的行动，
09:16
does your partner step up
and do what needs to be done
and do what needs to be done
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让你感到被人照顾和保护？
09:19
to leave you feeling
cared for and protected?
cared for and protected?
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这就是问题所在：
09:23
And here's the rub:
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如果你已步入暮年，
09:25
if you're facing old age,
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而你的伴侣并没有做到这些——
09:27
and your partner
isn't doing that for you --
isn't doing that for you --
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09:29
in fact, you're having
to do that for them --
to do that for them --
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事实上，你反而不得不
为他们这样做——
为他们这样做——
而你们的关系已经脆弱不堪，
09:32
then in an already-fragile relationship,
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那么看上去脱离
这段关系对你来说更好。
这段关系对你来说更好。
09:35
it can look a bit like you might
be better off out of it rather than in it.
be better off out of it rather than in it.
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硬刺，在重要的时候，
你的伴侣会陪着你吗？
你的伴侣会陪着你吗？
09:41
So is your partner there for you
when it really matters?
when it really matters?
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09:49
Not all the time, 80 percent of the time,
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我不是说所有的时间，80%的时间，
特别是在很重要的事情上。
09:51
but particularly if it's important to you.
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09:55
On your side, think carefully before you
commit to do something for your partner.
commit to do something for your partner.
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对你来说，在你对伴侣做出承诺前要三思而行。
10:01
It is much better to commit to
as much as you can follow through
as much as you can follow through
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能够量力而行的做出承诺，相比
10:05
than to commit to more
sound-good-in-the-moment
sound-good-in-the-moment
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当时信誓旦旦，后来却让他们失望
10:08
and then let them down.
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要好得多。
如果这对你的伴侣非常重要，
并且你已经做出了承诺，
并且你已经做出了承诺，
10:14
And if it's really important
to your partner, and you commit to it,
to your partner, and you commit to it,
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10:18
make sure you move hell
and high water to follow through.
and high water to follow through.
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请确保你无论如何都要兑现诺言。
这些就是你可以审视的东西。
10:21
Now, these are things
that I'm saying you can look for.
that I'm saying you can look for.
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不过别担心，这些也可以在现有的
10:24
Don't worry, these are also
things that can be built
things that can be built
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关系中建立。
10:27
in existing relationships.
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我认为，你可以做出的
10:32
I believe that the most important decision
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10:37
that you can make
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最重要的决定
就是选择谁作为生活伴侣，
10:38
is who you choose as a life partner,
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选择谁作为孩子的另一个家长。
10:43
who you choose as
the other parent of your children.
the other parent of your children.
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当然，浪漫不能少，
10:47
And of course, romance has to be there.
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浪漫是一件盛大，美丽
而又神奇的事情。
而又神奇的事情。
10:49
Romance is a grand and beautiful
and quirky thing.
and quirky thing.
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但当我们做出生命中
最重要的决定时，
最重要的决定时，
10:54
But we need to add
to a romantic, loving heart
to a romantic, loving heart
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10:59
an informed, thoughtful mind,
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还要怀有一颗浪漫的，充满爱的心，
11:03
as we make the most important
decision of our life.
decision of our life.
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以及一个理解的，体贴周到的头脑。
11:06
Thank you.
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谢谢大家。
（掌声）
11:07
(Applause)
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Reviewed by TED Translators Admin
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
George Blair-West - PsychiatristDr. George Blair-West is an author, researcher and doctor specializing in psychiatry.
Why you should listen
Dr. George Blair-West specializes in psychiatry in private practice in Brisbane, Australia. He sub-specializes in trauma and relationship/sex therapy. His abiding interest is distilling the latest psychotherapeutic research, honing these insights for impactful delivery through his clinical work, and then sharing them with the greater population.
In the 1990s, as a Senior Lecturer at the University of Queensland, Blair-West published widely on suicide and depression. Needing to lose weight himself, he then turned his focus to the overlooked research into the psychological forces that prevent weight loss. The bestselling book Weight Loss for Food Lovers: Understanding Our Minds and Why We Sabotage Our Weight Loss (translated into Dutch and Chinese) along with related research papers resulted in keynote addresses, a regular spot on the Australian breakfast show Today and media appearances around the world. A children's book on teaching healthy eating habits followed, and in 2010 Blair-West was named one of the "top 20 most influential obesity experts in the world."
Blair-West's 2013 novel The Way of The Quest received three international awards and was about the "how to" of finding one's meaning and purpose in life while building healthy relationships.
Helping people make sense of relationships is Blair-West's most important work. Drawing on his 25 years as a relationship therapist, he is currently writing his fourth book, How to Make the Biggest Decision of Your Life with his daughter Jiveny Blair-West, a dating coach. He and his wife Penny, a psychologist, celebrated 30 years of marriage in 2018.
George Blair-West | Speaker | TED.com