TEDxWomen 2012
Janine di Giovanni: What I saw in the war
Janine di Giovanni: 在戰爭中，我看到什麼?
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記者 Janine di Giovanni 曾經去過地球上最危險的國家，她也將她的經歷帶回來與大家分享，如波斯尼亞、獅子山共和國、和最近的敘利亞。她講述在大規模衝突期間的人性故事，以及探索那令人震驚的轉變---當人們原本熟悉的城市街道變成滿目瘡痍的戰場。
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
This is how war starts.
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戰爭就是這樣開始的
00:19
One day you're living your ordinary life,
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有一天 你過著平凡無奇的生活
00:22
you're planning to go to a party,
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要去參加派對
00:25
you're taking your children to school,
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送小孩去上學
00:27
you're making a dentist appointment.
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預約牙醫門診
00:30
The next thing, the telephones go out,
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接著 電話不通了
00:33
the TVs go out, there's armed men on the street,
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電視不能看了 街上有人拿著槍
00:37
there's roadblocks.
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拒馬也被搬出來了
00:40
Your life as you know it goes into suspended animation.
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你所知道的生活進入假死狀態
00:44
It stops.
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時間彷彿靜止不動了
00:46
I'm going to steal a story from a friend of mine,
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我要說一件發生在我朋友身上的故事
00:49
a Bosnian friend, about what happened to her,
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她是波斯尼亞人 是發生她身上的事
00:52
because I think it will illustrate for you exactly what it feels like.
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因為我想這樣就能告訴你們 戰爭是什麼樣子
00:56
She was walking to work one day in April, 1992,
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1992年4月某日 她走路去上班
01:00
in a miniskirt and high heels. She worked in a bank.
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穿著迷女裙和高跟鞋 她在銀行上班
01:04
She was a young mother. She was someone who liked to party.
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她是一位新手媽媽 也很喜歡參加派對
01:07
Great person.
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人很好
01:09
And suddenly she sees a tank
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突然 她看到一台坦克車
01:12
ambling down the main road of Sarajevo
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緩緩開進塞拉耶佛的大街上
01:15
knocking everything out of its path.
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剷平了所有東西
01:19
She thinks she's dreaming, but she's not.
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她還以為在作夢 但她錯了
01:23
And she runs as any of us would have done
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她驚慌失措地逃跑
01:26
and takes cover, and she hides behind a trash bin,
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尋找掩蔽物 最後她躲在垃圾箱後面
01:30
in her high heels and her miniskirt.
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穿著短裙和高跟鞋全身捲曲地縮在一起
01:32
And as she's hiding there, she's feeling ridiculous,
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躲在那裡的時候 她覺得這一切都太荒謬了
01:37
but she's seeing this tank go by with soldiers
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但是她看見這輛坦克車旁邊還有士兵護衛
01:39
and people all over the place and chaos
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所有人都慌張逃竄 一片混亂
01:42
and she thinks, "I feel like Alice in Wonderland
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她覺得自己好像身處艾莉絲夢遊仙境
01:46
going down the rabbit hole,
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要鑽進兔子洞
01:49
down, down, down into chaos,
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爬啊爬 爬到一片混亂的地方
01:52
and my life will never be the same again."
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我怎麼會這麼可憐
01:57
A few weeks later, my friend was in a crowd of people
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幾個星期之後 我朋友在一群人裡面
02:01
pushing with her infant son in her arms
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推擠掙扎著 當時抱著還是嬰兒的兒子
02:06
to give him to a stranger on a bus,
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將他交給公車上的一位陌生人
02:08
which was one of the last buses leaving Sarajevo
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這是最後開離塞拉耶佛的其中一班公車
02:11
to take children out so they could be safe.
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把小孩送出去 讓他們安全
02:14
And she remembers struggling with her mother to the front,
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她還記得當時她媽媽一直攔著她
02:19
crowds and crowds of people, "Take my child! Take my child!"
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很多人都喊著"把我的孩子帶走!把我的孩子帶走!"
02:22
and passing her son to someone through a window.
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然後把她兒子從車窗交給一個陌生人
02:28
And she didn't see him for years.
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之後她就沒再看過她兒子了
02:31
The siege went on for three and a half years,
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這場圍城戰持續了3年半
02:35
and it was a siege without water,
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這是一場消耗戰 沒有水
02:37
without power, without electricity, without heat, without food,
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能源 電力 熱能 食物
02:42
in the middle of Europe, in the middle of the 20th century.
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在歐洲大陸中間 發生在20世紀中期
02:48
I had the honor of being one of those reporters
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我很榮幸 我就是其中一位記者
02:51
that lived through that siege,
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曾經歷過那場圍城戰
02:54
and I say I have the honor and the privilege of being there
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我覺得自己很榮幸 當時能夠在那裡
02:57
because it's taught me everything,
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因為這場戰爭讓我學到很多
02:59
not just about being a reporter, but about being a human being.
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不只是身為一位記者 身為人也是一樣
03:03
I learned about compassion.
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我學會"同情心"
03:06
I learned about ordinary people who could be heroes.
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我知道小兵也能立大功
03:09
I learned about sharing. I learned about camaraderie.
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我學會"分享" "友情"
03:14
Most of all, I learned about love.
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最重要的是 我學會"關愛"
03:17
Even in the midst of terrible destruction and death and chaos,
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即使身處在毀滅 死亡和混亂之中
03:22
I learned how ordinary people could help their neighbors,
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我學到就算是一般人 也能幫助他們的鄰居
03:25
share food, raise their children,
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分享食物 養育小孩
03:28
drag someone who's being sniped at from the middle of the road
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拖行路中間遭到狙擊致死的屍體
03:31
even though you yourself were endangering your life,
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儘管自己都已經身陷險境
03:34
helping people get into taxis who were injured
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將受傷的人 送上計程車
03:37
to try to take them to hospitals.
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試著把他們帶到醫院
03:40
I learned so much about myself.
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我也更加了解自己
03:43
Martha Gellhorn, who's one of my heroes, once said,
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我欣賞的英雄之一 蓋爾霍恩曾經說過
03:46
"You can only love one war. The rest is responsibility."
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"妳只有能力愛上一場戰爭，其餘的，不過是責任罷了。"
03:51
I went on to cover many, many, many wars after that,
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事件過後 我又去採訪很多場戰爭
03:55
so many that I lost count,
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多到我都數不清
03:57
but there was nothing like Sarajevo.
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但是沒有一場戰爭像塞拉耶佛戰爭一樣
04:00
Last April, I went back to a very strange --
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去年4月 我回到一個非常陌生的地方
04:04
what I called a deranged high school reunion.
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我將它稱作瘋狂高中同學會
04:08
What it was, was the 20th anniversary of the siege,
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就是在圍城20週年紀念日那天
04:12
the beginning of the siege of Sarajevo,
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也是塞拉耶佛圍城戰開戰的那天
04:15
and I don't like the word "anniversary," because it sounds like a party,
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我不喜歡"周年紀念日"這個詞，因為聽起來像要開派對
04:19
and this was not a party.
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這不是在開派對
04:21
It was a very somber gathering of the reporters
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當時氣氛非常沉重 盤踞在記者頭上
04:25
that worked there during the war, humanitarian aid workers,
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他們在戰爭期間在當地採訪 人權人士也很沉重
04:28
and of course the brave and courageous people of Sarajevo themselves.
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當然 塞拉耶佛勇敢強韌的人民也是
04:33
And the thing that struck me the most,
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我最震驚的是
04:35
that broke my heart,
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讓我心都碎了
04:37
was walking down the main street of Sarajevo,
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沿著塞拉耶佛的大街走
04:39
where my friend Aida saw the tank coming 20 years ago,
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20年前 我朋友Aida就是在那裡看到坦克車
04:43
and in that road were more than 12,000 red chairs,
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就在那條路上擺著超過12000張紅椅子
04:50
empty,
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是空的
04:51
and every single one of them symbolized
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每一張椅子都象徵
04:54
a person who had died during the siege,
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一位在圍城戰死亡的人
04:57
just in Sarajevo, not in all of Bosnia,
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只有在塞拉耶佛有這項活動 不是波斯尼亞全國都有
05:02
and it stretched from one end of the city
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活動範圍從城市裡的一部分
05:04
to a large part of it,
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延伸到幾乎整座城市
05:06
and the saddest for me were the tiny little chairs
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看到很小張的椅子 我很難過
05:10
for the children.
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那是用來紀念小孩子的
05:13
I now cover Syria,
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我現在在敘利亞採訪
05:16
and I started reporting it because I believed that
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開始報導敘利亞戰爭 是因為我認為
05:19
it needs to be done.
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有必要將事實傳達出來
05:21
I believe a story there has to be told.
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我覺得有必要向世界傳達
05:24
I see, again, a template of the war in Bosnia.
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在波斯尼亞，我又看見戰爭的前兆
05:28
And when I first arrived in Damascus,
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我第一次去大馬士革
05:31
I saw this strange moment where people
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我看到一個很奇怪的景象
05:33
didn't seem to believe that war was going to descend,
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人們似乎不相信戰爭即將爆發
05:37
and it was exactly the same in Bosnia
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就跟波斯尼亞
05:38
and nearly every other country I've seen where war comes.
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和其他即將發生戰爭的國家都是一樣情況
05:41
People don't want to believe it's coming,
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人們不願相信戰爭即將開始
05:44
so they don't leave, they don't leave before they can.
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所以他們不願撤離 要堅守到最後一刻
05:47
They don't get their money out.
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不願將錢領出來
05:49
They stay because you want to stay in your home.
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他們留下來 是因為想保護家園
05:53
And then war and chaos descend.
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隨後戰爭爆發 陷入一片混亂
05:57
Rwanda is a place that haunts me a lot.
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我非常想念盧旺達
06:01
In 1994, I briefly left Sarajevo to go report the genocide in Rwanda.
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1994年 我暫時離開塞拉耶佛 前往盧旺達報導種族屠殺
06:07
Between April and August, 1994,
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1994年4月至8月
06:12
one million people were slaughtered.
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有100萬人遭到屠殺
06:16
Now if those 12,000 chairs freaked me out
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如果那12000張椅子就嚇死我了
06:21
with the sheer number,
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數量那麼多
06:23
I want you just for a second to think of a million people.
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想像一下 換做是100萬的犧牲者的話呢
06:27
And to give you some example, I remember
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給大家一個例子
06:29
standing and looking down a road as far as I could see,
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我記得站起來 往下看著街上 我能看到的地方
06:34
at least a mile, and there were bodies piled twice my height
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至少有一英哩 都是屍體 堆起來比我的身高高兩倍
06:41
of the dead.
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全都死了
06:42
And that was just a small percentage of the dead.
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這只占總死亡人數的一小部分
06:46
And there were mothers holding their children
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有媽媽還抱著自己小孩
06:48
who had been caught in their last death throes.
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她們自己都已經奄奄一息了
06:51
So we learn a lot from war,
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從戰爭中 我們學到很多事情
06:54
and I mention Rwanda
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我會提到盧旺達
06:57
because it is one place, like South Africa,
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因為它如同南非
07:01
where nearly 20 years on, there is healing.
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戰爭持續了將近20多年 目前正在復元
07:05
Fifty-six percent of the parliamentarians are women,
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國會議員有56%都是女性
07:08
which is fantastic,
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這個現象還不錯
07:11
and there's also within the national constitution now,
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現在該國家憲法內也有相關規定
07:15
you're actually not allowed to say Hutu or Tutsi.
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不能有胡圖族 圖西族之分
07:18
You're not allowed to identify anyone by ethnicity,
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不能有種族歧視
07:22
which is, of course, what started the slaughter in the first place.
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就是因為有種族歧視 當初才有大屠殺
07:26
And an aid worker friend of mine told me the most beautiful story,
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我有一位從事救援的朋友 告訴我一段很溫馨的故事
07:29
or I find it beautiful.
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也許是我覺得很溫馨
07:31
There was a group of children, mixed Hutus and Tutsis,
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有一群小孩 有的是胡圖族 有的是圖西族
07:36
and a group of women who were adopting them,
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和一群照顧他們的媽媽
07:38
and they lined up and one was just given to the next.
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他們排成一列 一個接一個
07:42
There was no kind of compensation for, you're a Tutsi,
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他們不求任何賠償 因為你是圖西族人
07:46
you're a Hutu, you might have killed my mother,
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你是胡圖族人 可能殺了我媽媽
07:48
you might have killed my father.
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可能殺了我爸爸
07:50
They were just brought together in this kind of reconciliation,
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他們只是心平氣和地團結在一起
07:56
and I find this remarkable.
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我覺得很了不起
07:59
So when people ask me how I continue to cover war,
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所以有人問我 在戰爭期間 我是怎麼採訪
08:02
and why I continue to do it,
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為什麼要繼續當戰地記者?
08:04
this is why.
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這就是答案
08:06
When I go back to Syria, next week in fact,
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下星期我會回去敘利亞
08:09
what I see is incredibly heroic people,
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事實上 我看到很多非常英勇的人
08:13
some of them fighting for democracy,
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他們之中有人是為民主自由而戰
08:15
for things we take for granted every single day.
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為我們每天視為理所當然的事情而戰
08:19
And that's pretty much why I do it.
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我會當記者 也差不多是因為這樣
08:23
In 2004, I had a little baby boy,
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2004年 我兒子出生
08:27
and I call him my miracle child,
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我把他稱做是希望之子
08:30
because after seeing so much death
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因為再看過這麼多死亡
08:33
and destruction and chaos and darkness in my life,
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毀滅、混亂和黑暗的場面之後
08:38
this ray of hope was born.
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一絲希望出現了
08:41
And I called him Luca, which means "The bringer of light,"
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我把他取名叫路卡 意思是"帶來希望的人"
08:46
because he does bring light to my life.
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因為他真的為我帶來希望
08:50
But I'm talking about him because when he was four months old,
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我會談到他 是因為在他4個月大時
08:54
my foreign editor forced me to go back to Baghdad
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我的外籍編輯叫我回去巴格達
08:59
where I had been reporting all throughout the Saddam regime
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我一直都有報導與薩達姆政權有關的事情
09:02
and during the fall of Baghdad and afterwards,
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在政權垮台前後
09:05
and I remember getting on the plane in tears,
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我記得我哭著上飛機
09:08
crying to be separated from my son,
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我會哭是因為要跟兒子分開了
09:11
and while I was there,
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還在那裡的時候
09:13
a quite famous Iraqi politician who was a friend of mine
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我朋友是一位伊拉克相當知名的政治人物
09:16
said to me, "What are you doing here?
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他對我說"妳在這裡幹嘛?"
09:18
Why aren't you home with Luca?"
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"妳怎麼沒在家陪路卡"
09:20
And I said, "Well, I have to see." It was 2004
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我說"我必須親眼見證" 那年是2004年
09:24
which was the beginning of the incredibly bloody time in Iraq,
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也是伊拉克血腥時代的開端
09:28
"I have to see, I have to see what is happening here.
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"我必須親眼見證這裡即將發生的大事"
09:32
I have to report it."
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"我要讓全世界都知道"
09:32
And he said, "Go home,
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他說"妳趕快回家
09:36
because if you miss his first tooth,
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因為如果妳錯過他長第一顆牙
09:39
if you miss his first step, you'll never forgive yourself.
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沒看到他走的第一步 妳會非常後悔
09:42
But there will always be another war."
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但是世界上總會有戰爭發生"
09:46
And there, sadly, will always be wars.
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很不幸，戰爭隨時再發生
09:51
And I am deluding myself if I think, as a journalist,
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我對自己非常失望，我想身為一位新聞記者
09:54
as a reporter, as a writer,
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戰地記者和作家
09:56
what I do can stop them. I can't.
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要怎麼做才能阻止戰爭，但我想不到
10:01
I'm not Kofi Annan. He can't stop a war.
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我不是科菲•安南 連他都沒辦法阻止
10:04
He tried to negotiate Syria and couldn't do it.
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他試著與敘利亞政府協商 但還是沒辦法
10:06
I'm not a U.N. conflict resolution person.
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我不是聯合國衝突解決的成員
10:10
I'm not even a humanitarian aid doctor,
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也不是人道救援行動的醫生
10:13
and I can't tell you the times of how helpless I've felt
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我有很多次覺得非常無助，多到數不清
10:16
to have people dying in front of me, and I couldn't save them.
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有人就在我面前死了，但是我沒辦法救他們
10:19
All I am is a witness.
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我只是一位目擊者
10:23
My role is to bring a voice to people who are voiceless.
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我的工作就是讓無法發言的人，有管道向外界發聲
10:28
A colleague of mine described it as to shine a light
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我同事覺得這份工作就像一道希望之光
10:31
in the darkest corners of the world.
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照亮世界最黑暗的角落
10:34
And that's what I try to do.
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那也是我的理想
10:36
I'm not always successful,
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事情不可能都是一帆風順
10:39
and sometimes it's incredibly frustrating,
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有時候，真的讓人很沮喪
10:42
because you feel like you're writing into a void,
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因為你會覺得好像寫了也沒用
10:44
or you feel like no one cares.
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大家都不在乎
10:47
Who cares about Syria? Who cares about Bosnia?
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誰會在意敘利亞?波斯尼亞?
10:49
Who cares about the Congo,
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誰會在意剛果共和國?
10:51
the Ivory Coast, Liberia, Sierra Leone,
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象牙海岸 賴比瑞亞 獅子山共和國
10:53
all of these strings of places that
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這一長串的所有地方
10:55
I will remember for the rest of my life?
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以後我還記得嗎?
10:59
But my métier is to bear witness
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但我的工作就是為他們做見證
11:02
and that is the crux, the heart of the matter,
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這是很重要的關鍵，也是事件的核心
11:06
for us reporters who do this.
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對我們這些紀錄戰地的記者來說
11:08
And all I can really do is hope,
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能做的就只有祈禱奇蹟發生
11:12
not to policymakers or politicians,
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而不是去拜託政府高層或政治人物
11:14
because as much as I'd like to have faith
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因為我想盡可能
11:17
that they read my words and do something,
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讓他們了解我說的話 做的事
11:19
I don't delude myself.
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我不會再欺騙自己
11:22
But what I do hope is that if you remember anything I said
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我真的很希望 大家能夠記住我說的話
11:27
or any of my stories tomorrow morning over breakfast,
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或今天的故事，明天早上吃完早餐還記得的話
11:30
if you can remember the story of Sarajevo,
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如果你還記得塞拉耶佛的故事
11:33
or the story of Rwanda,
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或盧旺達的故事
11:36
then I've done my job.
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我就不枉到此演說了
11:39
Thank you very much.
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謝謝大家
11:41
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Janine di Giovanni - ReporterJanine di Giovanni reports from war zones around the world.
Why you should listen
Janine di Giovanni is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair. She writes for the British, American, and French press, and has reported from Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Algeria, Gaza, the West Bank, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Pakistan, East Timor, Ivory Coast, Bosnia, Kosovo, Liberia, Somalia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone. has won four major journalistic awards, including the National Magazine Award.
She is the author of Madness Visible and The Quick and the Dead, The Place at the End of the World, and Ghosts by Daylight which recently won Spears Best Memoir of the Year. She wrote the introduction to the international best seller Zlata’s Diary: a Child’s Life in Sarajevo. Two documentaries have been made about her life and work (Bearing Witness and No Man’s Land). In 2010, she was the President of the Jury of the Prix Bayeux-Calvados for War. She is now focused on Syria, Egypt, Libya and Yemen and so far has been inside Syria three times. Janine lives in Paris.
Janine di Giovanni | Speaker | TED.com