TEDSummit
Helen Fisher: Technology hasn't changed love. Here's why
海倫．費雪: 科技不會改變愛，為什麼？
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在這個科技導向、互連的世界，我們發展出求愛新招及新規則，然而愛的本質卻不曾改變，人類學家海倫．費雪如是說。她在這場活力充沛、鉅細靡遺的演講中，以第一手資料解釋：更快速的連結反而產生步調更慢、更親密的關係。她與愛情專家埃絲特．沛瑞爾在最後有一場精彩的對談。
Helen Fisher - Anthropologist, expert on love
Anthropologist Helen Fisher studies gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. She’s best known as an expert on romantic love. Full bio
Anthropologist Helen Fisher studies gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. She’s best known as an expert on romantic love. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I was recently traveling
in the Highlands of New Guinea,
in the Highlands of New Guinea,
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我最近去新幾內亞高地，
00:15
and I was talking with a man
who had three wives.
who had three wives.
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跟一位男士談話，他有三個老婆。
00:18
I asked him, "How many wives
would you like to have?"
would you like to have?"
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我問他：「你想要娶幾個太太？」
00:22
And there was this long pause,
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在很長的停頓之後，
00:23
and I thought to myself,
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我心想：
00:25
"Is he going to say five?
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「他會說 5 個嗎？
00:26
Is he going to say 10?
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還是 10 個？
00:28
Is he going to say 25?"
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還是 25 個？」
00:29
And he leaned towards me
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結果他靠過來
00:31
and he whispered, "None."
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小聲對我說：「一個都不想。」
00:32
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:35
Eighty-six percent of human societies
permit a man to have several wives:
permit a man to have several wives:
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86% 的人類社會
允許男人有好幾位妻子：
允許男人有好幾位妻子：
00:39
polygeny.
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一夫多妻制。
00:41
But in the vast majority
of these cultures,
of these cultures,
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但是，這些文化中的大多數，
00:43
only about five or ten percent of men
actually do have several wives.
actually do have several wives.
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只有 5% 到 10% 的男人
真的有多位妻子。
真的有多位妻子。
00:47
Having several partners
can be a toothache.
can be a toothache.
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有多位伴侶就像牙痛一樣。
00:49
In fact, co-wives can
fight with each other,
fight with each other,
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事實上，妻妾間會互相爭寵，
00:53
sometimes they can even poison
each other's children.
each other's children.
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有時候還會毒害別人的孩子。
00:56
And you've got to have
a lot of cows, a lot of goats,
a lot of cows, a lot of goats,
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而且你還得有很多牛、很多羊、
00:59
a lot of money, a lot of land,
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很多錢、很多土地，
01:01
in order to build a harem.
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才能養得起一個後宮。
01:03
We are a pair-bonding species.
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我們是配對型的物種。
01:05
Ninety-seven percent of mammals
do not pair up to rear their young;
do not pair up to rear their young;
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97% 哺乳動物的親代
並沒有一起養育後代；
並沒有一起養育後代；
01:08
human beings do.
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人類卻是如此。
01:10
I'm not suggesting that we're not --
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我沒有說我們不...
01:13
that we're necessarily
sexually faithful to our partners.
sexually faithful to our partners.
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我們性方面一定對伴侶忠實。
01:16
I've looked at adultery in 42 cultures,
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我研究過 42 個文化中的外遇行為，
01:18
I understand, actually,
some of the genetics of it,
some of the genetics of it,
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我其實了解外遇的某些遺傳原因，
01:21
and some of the brain circuitry of it.
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還有造成這種行為的大腦迴路。
01:23
It's very common around the world,
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這現象在全球很普遍，
01:25
but we are built to love.
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但是我們天生就要愛。
01:27
How is technology changing love?
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科技如何改變愛？
01:31
I'm going to say almost not at all.
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我要說幾乎一點都沒有。
01:34
I study the brain.
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我研究腦部。
01:36
I and my colleagues have put
over 100 people into a brain scanner --
over 100 people into a brain scanner --
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我和同事將100多人
放進腦部掃描機中──
放進腦部掃描機中──
01:39
people who had just
fallen happily in love,
fallen happily in love,
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熱戀中的人，
01:42
people who had just been rejected in love
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剛剛失戀的人，
01:44
and people who are in love long-term.
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和談了長久戀愛的人。
01:46
And it is possible
to remain "in love" long-term.
to remain "in love" long-term.
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人長時間一直維持戀愛的感覺
的確是有可能的。
的確是有可能的。
01:50
And I've long ago maintained
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我很久前就主張，
01:52
that we've evolved three distinctly
different brain systems
different brain systems
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人類在交配和繁衍的過程中，
01:55
for mating and reproduction:
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演化出三種迥然不同的腦部系統：
01:57
sex drive,
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性慾、
01:58
feelings of intense romantic love
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強烈又浪漫的愛、
02:00
and feelings of deep cosmic
attachment to a long-term partner.
attachment to a long-term partner.
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及對長期伴侶深深無盡的愛慕之情。
02:04
And together, these three brain systems --
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把這三個腦部系統加在一起，
02:06
with many other parts of the brain --
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再加上腦部的其它部分，
02:09
orchestrate our sexual,
our romantic and our family lives.
our romantic and our family lives.
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譜出我們浪漫的性、愛與家庭生活。
02:14
But they lie way below the cortex,
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但這三者深藏在皮質之下，
02:16
way below the limbic system
where we feel our emotions,
where we feel our emotions,
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遠在我們感受情緒、產生感情的
02:21
generate our emotions.
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邊緣系統之下。
02:22
They lie in the most primitive parts
of the brain, linked with energy,
of the brain, linked with energy,
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它們藏在大腦最原始的地方，
與能量、專注、渴望、動機、
需求及慾望等連結在一起。
需求及慾望等連結在一起。
02:27
focus, craving, motivation,
wanting and drive.
wanting and drive.
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02:32
In this case,
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以這個例子來說，
02:33
the drive to win life's greatest prize:
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就是渴望贏得生命中最大獎賞：
02:36
a mating partner.
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一名交配的伴侶。
02:37
They evolved over 4.4 million years ago
among our first ancestors,
among our first ancestors,
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我們的始祖在這方面的演化
已經超過 440 萬年，
已經超過 440 萬年，
02:42
and they're not going to change
if you swipe left or right on Tinder.
if you swipe left or right on Tinder.
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就算你在交友軟體 Tinder
左右滑動頁面，也不能改變。
左右滑動頁面，也不能改變。
02:46
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:48
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
02:50
There's no question that technology
is changing the way we court:
is changing the way we court:
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毫無疑問科技會改變
我們求愛的方式：
我們求愛的方式：
02:55
emailing, texting,
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寫電郵、傳簡訊、
02:57
emojis to express your emotions,
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用表情符號表達情感、
02:59
sexting,
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發性愛簡訊、
03:00
"liking" a photograph, selfies ...
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讚一張照片或是自拍等等。
03:03
We're seeing new rules
and taboos for how to court.
and taboos for how to court.
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我們看見求愛招術
有了新規則及新禁忌。
有了新規則及新禁忌。
03:07
But, you know --
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但是，你知道...
03:09
is this actually
dramatically changing love?
dramatically changing love?
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這真的大幅改變了愛嗎？
03:13
What about the late 1940s,
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那你怎麼看在 1940 年代晚期，
03:16
when the automobile became very popular
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車子變得非常流行，
03:18
and we suddenly had rolling bedrooms?
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我們突然有了車床族這回事？
03:21
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:22
How about the introduction
of the birth control pill?
of the birth control pill?
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那避孕藥的問世又怎麼說？
03:27
Unchained from the great threat
of pregnancy and social ruin,
of pregnancy and social ruin,
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婦女從害怕意外懷孕
而名聲敗壞的威脅中解放出來，
而名聲敗壞的威脅中解放出來，
03:32
women could finally express
their primitive and primal sexuality.
their primitive and primal sexuality.
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終於可以表達非常自然原始的性慾。
03:37
Even dating sites are not changing love.
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甚至約會網站，也沒有改變愛。
03:40
I'm Chief Scientific Advisor to Match.com,
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我是約會網站 Match.com 的
首席科學顧問。
首席科學顧問。
03:43
I've been it for 11 years.
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我已經當了 11 年。
03:45
I keep telling them
and they agree with me,
and they agree with me,
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我一直跟他們說，他們也同意，
03:47
that these are not dating sites,
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這不是約會網站。
03:48
they are introducing sites.
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這應該是介紹網站。
03:51
When you sit down in a bar,
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當你坐在酒吧裡，
03:53
in a coffee house,
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咖啡廳裡，
03:54
on a park bench,
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甚至坐在公園的長椅上，
03:56
your ancient brain snaps into action
like a sleeping cat awakened,
like a sleeping cat awakened,
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你古老的大腦馬上進入活動狀態，
就像一隻突然甦醒的貓，
就像一隻突然甦醒的貓，
04:01
and you smile
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你微笑，
04:02
and laugh
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談笑風生，
04:03
and listen
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傾聽，
04:05
and parade the way our ancestors
did 100,000 years ago.
did 100,000 years ago.
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而且走路有風，
就像10萬年前的祖先一樣。
就像10萬年前的祖先一樣。
04:10
We can give you various people --
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我們可以提供各式各樣的人，
04:12
all the dating sites can --
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所有的約會網站都可以，
04:13
but the only real algorithm
is your own human brain.
is your own human brain.
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但是，真正且唯一在盤算的
其實是你自己的大腦。
其實是你自己的大腦。
04:17
Technology is not going to change that.
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科技不會改變這件事。
04:21
Technology is also not going to change
who you choose to love.
who you choose to love.
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科技不會改變你決定愛誰。
04:25
I study the biology of personality,
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我研究個性生物學，
04:28
and I've come to believe
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我開始相信，
04:29
that we've evolved four very broad
styles of thinking and behaving,
styles of thinking and behaving,
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我們已發展出四種
非常顯著的思維和行為方式，
非常顯著的思維和行為方式，
04:33
linked with the dopamine, serotonin,
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跟多巴胺、血清素
04:35
testosterone and estrogen systems.
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睪固酮及雌激素連在一起。
04:38
So I created a questionnaire
directly from brain science
directly from brain science
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所以，我從腦科學的角度
去設計了一份問卷，
去設計了一份問卷，
04:42
to measure the degree to which
you express the traits --
you express the traits --
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來測量你表達特質的程度──
04:45
the constellation of traits --
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各種特質──
04:47
linked with each
of these four brain systems.
of these four brain systems.
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與這四種腦部系統的關聯。
04:50
I then put that questionnaire
on various dating sites
on various dating sites
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然後我把這份問卷放到
40 個國家的各個約會網站上。
04:55
in 40 countries.
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04:57
Fourteen million or more people
have now taken the questionnaire,
have now taken the questionnaire,
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超過 1400 萬人填過這份問卷，
05:01
and I've been able to watch
who's naturally drawn to whom.
who's naturally drawn to whom.
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我能藉此觀察哪些人
會自然而然地相互吸引。
會自然而然地相互吸引。
05:06
And as it turns out,
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結果是，
05:07
those who were very expressive
of the dopamine system
of the dopamine system
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多巴胺系統很強的人
05:10
tend to be curious, creative,
spontaneous, energetic --
spontaneous, energetic --
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比較有好奇心、有創意、
自動自發、有活力──
自動自發、有活力──
05:13
I would imagine there's an awful lot
of people like that in this room --
of people like that in this room --
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我可以想像在座
有很多像這樣的人──
有很多像這樣的人──
05:17
they're drawn to people like themselves.
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因為這種人，同類相吸。
05:19
Curious, creative people
need people like themselves.
need people like themselves.
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有好奇心及創意的人
需要跟同類的人在一起。
需要跟同類的人在一起。
05:22
People who are very expressive
of the serotonin system
of the serotonin system
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血清素系統很強的人
05:25
tend to be traditional, conventional,
they follow the rules,
they follow the rules,
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比較傳統、保守，他們遵循規定，
05:28
they respect authority,
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他們尊重權威，
05:30
they tend to be religious -- religiosity
is in the serotonin system --
is in the serotonin system --
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他們也比較虔誠──
宗教性就在血清素系統內──
宗教性就在血清素系統內──
05:33
and traditional people
go for traditional people.
go for traditional people.
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而且傳統的人也喜歡傳統的人。
05:36
In that way, similarity attracts.
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也就是說，同類相吸。
05:39
In the other two cases, opposites attract.
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另外兩個情況，則是異性相吸。
05:41
People very expressive
of the testosterone system
of the testosterone system
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睪固酮系統表現強的人
05:44
tend to be analytical,
logical, direct, decisive,
logical, direct, decisive,
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比較重分析、重邏輯、直接、果斷，
05:48
and they go for their opposite:
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而且他們喜歡相反特質的人：
05:49
they go for somebody who's high estrogen,
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他們喜歡雌激素高的人，
05:51
somebody who's got very good verbal skills
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語言能力非常強
05:54
and people skills,
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及很會處理人際關係的人，
05:55
who's very intuitive
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直覺性強的人，
05:56
and who's very nurturing
and emotionally expressive.
and emotionally expressive.
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以及很會照顧人、會表達情緒的人。
06:00
We have natural patterns of mate choice.
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我們生來就具有擇偶的自然模式。
06:03
Modern technology is not going
to change who we choose to love.
to change who we choose to love.
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現代科技不會改變
我們決定去愛誰。
我們決定去愛誰。
06:09
But technology is producing
one modern trend
one modern trend
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但是科技的確創造了一種現代趨勢，
06:12
that I find particularly important.
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我認為特別重要。
06:14
It's associated with the concept
of paradox of choice.
of paradox of choice.
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它與選擇的悖論這個觀念有關。
06:18
For millions of years,
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有百萬年之久，
06:19
we lived in little hunting
and gathering groups.
and gathering groups.
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人類是生活在狩獵
及採集的小團體內。
及採集的小團體內。
06:22
You didn't have the opportunity to choose
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那時的人沒有機會
06:24
between 1,000 people on a dating site.
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像我們一樣在約會網站中，
有上千個對象可選擇。
有上千個對象可選擇。
06:28
In fact, I've been studying this recently,
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事實上，我最近就在研究這個，
06:30
and I actually think there's some
sort of sweet spot in the brain;
sort of sweet spot in the brain;
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我真的相信腦部的運作，
有所謂的「最佳選擇」；
有所謂的「最佳選擇」；
06:33
I don't know what it is, but apparently,
from reading a lot of the data,
from reading a lot of the data,
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我還不知道它是什麼，但很明顯，
在看了一大堆資料之後，
在看了一大堆資料之後，
06:37
we can embrace about five
to nine alternatives, and after that,
to nine alternatives, and after that,
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我們大約能接受5~9個選項，
超過這個數字之後，
超過這個數字之後，
06:42
you get into what academics
call "cognitive overload,"
call "cognitive overload,"
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就會出現學術界稱為
「認知超載」的問題，
「認知超載」的問題，
06:45
and you don't choose any.
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然後就變成什麼都不選。
06:48
So I've come to think that due
to this cognitive overload,
to this cognitive overload,
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所以我認為，因為認知超載，
06:51
we're ushering in a new form of courtship
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我們開闢了一種新的求愛法，
06:54
that I call "slow love."
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我稱為「慢愛」。
06:57
I arrived at this during
my work with Match.com.
my work with Match.com.
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我在 Match.com 的工作
讓我得到這個結論。
讓我得到這個結論。
07:01
Every year for the last six years,
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過去六年來，
07:03
we've done a study called
"Singles in America."
"Singles in America."
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每年我們都會做一項
「單身美國人」的研究。
「單身美國人」的研究。
07:05
We don't poll the Match population,
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我們不對 Match 族群做民調，
07:07
we poll the American population.
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我們對所有美國人做民調。
07:09
We use 5,000-plus people,
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我們選出5千多人，
07:12
a representative sample of Americans
based on the US census.
based on the US census.
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從美國人口普查中
選出具代表性的樣本。
選出具代表性的樣本。
07:16
We've got data now on over 30,000 people,
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我們現在有超過3萬人的資料，
07:19
and every single year,
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而且每一年，
07:21
I see some of the same patterns.
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我都會看到同樣的模式。
07:24
Every single year when I ask the question,
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每一年提問所得的結果是：
07:27
over 50 percent of people
have had a one-night stand --
have had a one-night stand --
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超過 50% 的人有過一夜情，
07:30
not necessarily last year,
but in their lives --
but in their lives --
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不一定是在去年，
而是一生中是否曾有過；
而是一生中是否曾有過；
07:32
50 percent have had
a friends with benefits
a friends with benefits
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50% 的人曾經有過炮友；
07:35
during the course of their lives,
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07:36
and over 50 percent have lived
with a person long-term
with a person long-term
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超過 50% 的人在婚前
有長期同居的經驗。
有長期同居的經驗。
07:40
before marrying.
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07:41
Americans think that this is reckless.
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美國人認為這太亂來了。
07:43
I have doubted that for a long time;
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我對此結果也一直存疑。
07:46
the patterns are too strong.
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1892
但是，模式非常明顯。
07:48
There's got to be some
Darwinian explanation --
Darwinian explanation --
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這裡面一定有什麼達爾文式的解釋。
07:51
Not that many people are crazy.
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沒有那麼多瘋狂的人！
07:53
And I stumbled, then, on a statistic
that really came home to me.
that really came home to me.
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我搞糊塗了，然後，一份統計
終於讓我明白這是怎麼回事。
終於讓我明白這是怎麼回事。
07:58
It was a very interesting academic article
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那是一份非常有意思的學術文章，
08:00
in which I found that 67 percent
of singles in America today
of singles in America today
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我在裡面發現，
今天美國有 67% 的單身者，
今天美國有 67% 的單身者，
08:05
who are living long-term with somebody,
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與某人長期同居卻還不結婚，
08:08
have not yet married because
they are terrified of divorce.
they are terrified of divorce.
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因為他們害怕離婚。
08:12
They're terrified of the social,
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他們怕離婚後要承擔的社會、
08:14
legal, emotional,
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法律、情感、
08:15
economic consequences of divorce.
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及經濟後果。
08:18
So I came to realize that I don't think
this is recklessness;
this is recklessness;
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我終於明白，我不認為這是亂來，
08:22
I think it's caution.
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我認為這是謹慎。
08:24
Today's singles want to know
every single thing about a partner
every single thing about a partner
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現今，單身者想在婚前
了解伴侶的一切。
了解伴侶的一切。
08:29
before they wed.
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08:31
You learn a lot between the sheets,
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在床笫之間，你會看到很多，
08:33
not only about how somebody makes love,
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不僅是做愛的方式，
08:35
but whether they're kind,
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還有他們是否體貼，
08:37
whether they can listen
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是否會聆聽，
08:38
and at my age,
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而且到了我這個年紀，
08:39
whether they've got a sense of humor.
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還要看他們是否有幽默感。
08:41
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:43
And in an age where we have
too many choices,
too many choices,
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在有太多選擇的時代，
08:47
we have very little fear
of pregnancy and disease
of pregnancy and disease
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我們不太擔心懷孕和疾病，
08:50
and we've got no feeling of shame
for sex before marriage,
for sex before marriage,
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對婚前性行為也沒有羞恥感，
08:54
I think people are taking
their time to love.
their time to love.
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我認為人們用自己的步調來慢愛。
08:58
And actually, what's happening is,
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而且其實，現在的狀況是，
09:00
what we're seeing is a real expansion
of the precommitment stage
of the precommitment stage
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我們看到是互結連理前的
09:03
before you tie the knot.
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預備承諾階段，被拉長了。
09:06
Where marriage used to be
the beginning of a relationship,
the beginning of a relationship,
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婚姻過去一向是一段關係的開始，
09:08
now it's the finale.
195
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現在則變成一段關係的終點。
09:11
But the human brain --
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但是，人的腦
09:13
(Laughter)
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2009
（笑聲）
09:15
The human brain always triumphs,
198
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1814
人的腦總是贏家，
09:17
and indeed, in the United States today,
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確實，今天的美國
09:18
86 percent of Americans
will marry by age 49.
will marry by age 49.
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86% 的美國人會在 49 歲前結婚。
09:22
And even in cultures around the world
where they're not marrying as often,
where they're not marrying as often,
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即使在世界各地
結婚不那麼頻繁的文化中，
結婚不那麼頻繁的文化中，
09:26
they are settling down eventually
with a long-term partner.
with a long-term partner.
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他們最終也會與一位
長期伴侶定下來。
長期伴侶定下來。
09:29
So it began to occur to me:
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所以這讓我想到：
09:31
during this long extension
of the precommitment stage,
of the precommitment stage,
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在這段拉長的預備承諾階段，
09:35
if you can get rid of bad
relationships before you marry,
relationships before you marry,
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如果你能在婚前
甩掉一段不好的關係，
甩掉一段不好的關係，
09:39
maybe we're going to see
more happy marriages.
more happy marriages.
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可能我們就會看到比較快樂的婚姻。
09:41
So I did a study of 1,100
married people in America --
married people in America --
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所以，我研究了 1100 對美國夫婦，
09:46
not on Match.com, of course --
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1727
當然不是在 Match.com 上做，
09:48
and I asked them a lot of questions.
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我問他們很多問題。
09:50
But one of the questions was,
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1507
其中一個問題是，
09:52
"Would you re-marry the person
you're currently married to?"
you're currently married to?"
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你會與你現在的配偶再結一次婚嗎？
09:56
And 81 percent said, "Yes."
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81% 的人說會。
10:00
In fact, the greatest change
in modern romance and family life
in modern romance and family life
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事實上，現代愛情
與家庭生活最大的改變
與家庭生活最大的改變
10:07
is not technology.
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1400
不在科技。
10:09
It's not even slow love.
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1494
甚至也不是慢愛。
10:11
It's actually women
piling into the job market
piling into the job market
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其實是女人湧入就業市場，
10:14
in cultures around the world.
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1423
在全球各文化皆是。
10:15
For millions of years,
218
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1229
幾百萬年來，
10:17
our ancestors lived
in little hunting and gathering groups.
in little hunting and gathering groups.
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2970
我們的祖先生活在
採集狩獵的小團體裡。
採集狩獵的小團體裡。
10:20
Women commuted to work
to gather their fruits and vegetables.
to gather their fruits and vegetables.
220
608014
2905
女人通勤到工作場所
去採集水果蔬菜。
去採集水果蔬菜。
10:22
They came home with 60 to 80
percent of the evening meal.
percent of the evening meal.
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3510
她們回家時帶著六到八成的晚餐。
10:26
The double-income family was the rule.
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雙薪家庭很平常。
10:29
And women were regarded
as just as economically, socially
as just as economically, socially
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女人無論是在經濟、社會
10:33
and sexually powerful as men.
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或性方面都與男性一樣強大。
10:36
Then the environment changed
some 10,000 years ago,
some 10,000 years ago,
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3102
然後環境在約一萬年前改變了，
10:39
we began to settle down on the farm
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2229
我們開始定居下來務農，
10:41
and both men and women
became obliged, really,
became obliged, really,
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3191
男女兩性變得都有責任，真的，
10:44
to marry the right person,
228
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1572
要娶或嫁對人，
10:46
from the right background,
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1430
要背景相當，
10:47
from the right religion
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1303
要有對的信仰，
10:49
and from the right kin
and social and political connections.
and social and political connections.
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3538
要門當戶對，
要有同樣的社會及政治圈。
要有同樣的社會及政治圈。
10:52
Men's jobs became more important:
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男人的工作變得更重要：
10:54
they had to move the rocks,
fell the trees, plow the land.
fell the trees, plow the land.
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他們必須搬石頭、砍樹、犁田。
10:57
They brought the produce
to local markets, and came home
to local markets, and came home
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2924
他們把農產品拿去市場賣，
11:00
with the equivalent of money.
235
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1514
回家時帶回等值的金錢。
11:01
Along with this,
236
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1546
隨之而來的是
11:03
we see a rise of a host of beliefs:
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2977
我們看到一些信念興起：
11:06
the belief of virginity at marriage,
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2182
婚姻守貞，
11:08
arranged marriages --
strictly arranged marriages --
strictly arranged marriages --
239
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2943
媒妁之言──
非常嚴格的父母指定婚約──
非常嚴格的父母指定婚約──
11:11
the belief that the man
is the head of the household,
is the head of the household,
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2527
以及男人是一家之主，
11:13
that the wife's place is in the home
241
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2239
女人要主內，
11:16
and most important,
242
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1153
還有最重要的，
11:17
honor thy husband,
and 'til death do us part.
and 'til death do us part.
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3131
要榮耀丈夫，至死不渝。
11:20
These are gone.
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1722
這些都沒了。
11:22
They are going, and in many places,
245
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2549
這些都漸漸消失了，
11:24
they are gone.
246
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1388
而且在很多地方，
這些已成為過去式。
這些已成為過去式。
11:26
We are right now in a marriage revolution.
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3423
我們現在正處於婚姻革命中。
11:29
We are shedding 10,000 years
of our farming tradition
of our farming tradition
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4715
我們正在擺脫過去
一萬年來的傳統農業家庭，
一萬年來的傳統農業家庭，
11:34
and moving forward towards egalitarian
relationships between the sexes --
relationships between the sexes --
249
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5626
朝著兩性平權邁進──
11:40
something I regard as highly compatible
with the ancient human spirit.
with the ancient human spirit.
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4815
而我認為這與古人的精神非常相符。
11:45
I'm not a Pollyanna;
251
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1702
我不是什麼樂天派的人；
11:47
there's a great deal to cry about.
252
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1761
還是有很多要大聲疾呼的地方。
11:49
I've studied divorce in 80 cultures,
253
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1746
我研究 80 種文化中的離婚，
11:50
I've studied, as I say,
adultery in many --
adultery in many --
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2136
我剛剛也說了我也研究通姦──
11:53
there's a whole pile of problems.
255
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1816
這裡有一大堆問題。
11:54
As William Butler Yeats,
the poet, once said,
the poet, once said,
256
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3192
就像詩人葉慈曾說的：
11:58
"Love is the crooked thing."
257
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2465
「愛情是狡猾的東西。」
12:01
I would add, "Nobody gets out alive."
258
709131
2790
我還要加上：
「沒有人能活著出來！」
「沒有人能活著出來！」
12:03
(Laughter)
259
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1095
（笑聲）
12:05
We all have problems.
260
713064
1467
我們都有自己的問題。
12:06
But in fact, I think the poet
Randall Jarrell really sums it up best.
Randall Jarrell really sums it up best.
261
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3604
但事實上，我認為
詩人藍道‧傑瑞形容得最傳神。
詩人藍道‧傑瑞形容得最傳神。
12:10
He said, "The dark, uneasy world
of family life --
of family life --
262
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4999
他說：「家庭生活中的枯索紛擾，
12:15
where the greatest can fail,
and the humblest succeed."
and the humblest succeed."
263
723576
4518
會使強者技窮，謙者得勝。」
12:20
But I will leave you with this:
264
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1887
在結束前我想留給大家這個：
12:22
love and attachment will prevail,
265
730690
2728
愛情與戀慕會得勝，
12:25
technology cannot change it.
266
733442
2533
科技無法改變它。
12:27
And I will conclude by saying
267
735999
1838
我的總結就是
12:29
any understanding of human relationships
must take into account
must take into account
268
737861
5246
想要了解任何一種人際關係，
一定要把人類行為中
最有力的決定因素考慮進去：
最有力的決定因素考慮進去：
12:35
one the most powerful determinants
of human behavior:
of human behavior:
269
743131
4225
12:39
the unquenchable,
270
747380
1218
就是那抑制不住、
12:41
adaptable
271
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1165
具適應性、
12:42
and primordial human drive to love.
272
750789
3006
及最原始的人類渴望：愛。
12:45
Thank you.
273
753819
1152
謝謝。
12:46
(Applause)
274
754995
3022
（掌聲）
12:51
Kelly Stoetzel: Thank you
so much for that, Helen.
so much for that, Helen.
275
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2381
凱莉：謝謝妳的演講，海倫。
12:54
As you know, there's another
speaker here with us
speaker here with us
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2309
這裡還有另一位講者，
12:56
that works in your same field.
277
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1550
跟妳研究相同的領域。
12:58
She comes at it
from a different perspective.
from a different perspective.
278
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2431
她從不同的觀點來看這件事。
13:00
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist
who works with couples.
who works with couples.
279
768682
4637
精神治療師埃絲特．沛瑞爾
專門處理夫婦關係。
專門處理夫婦關係。
13:05
You study data,
280
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1293
妳研究數據資料，
13:07
Esther studies the stories
the couples tell her
the couples tell her
281
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2500
埃斯特則研究
夫婦在尋求協談幫助時
告訴她的故事。
告訴她的故事。
13:09
when they come to her for help.
282
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2028
13:11
Let's have her join us on the stage.
283
779642
1724
歡迎她上台。
13:13
Esther?
284
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1151
埃斯特？
13:14
(Applause)
285
782565
3131
（掌聲）
13:22
So Esther,
286
790249
1246
埃斯特，
13:23
when you were watching Helen's talk,
287
791519
2272
妳在聽海倫的演講時，
13:25
was there any part of it
288
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1206
有任何與妳工作經驗所獲的心得
13:27
that resonated with you
through the lens of your own work
through the lens of your own work
289
795045
2767
互相契合的部分嗎？
13:29
that you'd like to comment on?
290
797836
1585
妳可以談一下嗎？
13:32
Esther Perel: It's interesting,
because on the one hand,
because on the one hand,
291
800062
3579
埃斯特：非常有意思，因為一方面
13:35
the need for love
is ubiquitous and universal.
is ubiquitous and universal.
292
803665
3829
對愛的需求，無所不在，
放諸天下皆準。
放諸天下皆準。
13:39
But the way we love --
293
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1964
但是我們愛的方法──
13:41
the meaning we make out of it --
294
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1530
愛的意義──
13:43
the rules that govern
our relationships, I think,
our relationships, I think,
295
811507
2325
支配我們關係的規則，我認為
13:45
are changing fundamentally.
296
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2027
正在從根本改變。
13:47
We come from a model that, until now,
297
815907
2900
直到今天為止，我們的模式
13:50
was primarily regulated
around duty and obligation,
around duty and obligation,
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主要在規範責任和義務，
13:54
the needs of the collective and loyalty.
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著重在集體的需求及忠誠。
13:56
And we have shifted it
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而我們已經轉變到另一種模式，
13:57
to a model of free choice
and individual rights,
and individual rights,
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有自由選擇及個人權利、
14:02
and self-fulfillment and happiness.
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自我實現及幸福。
14:05
And so, that was
the first thing I thought,
the first thing I thought,
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所以，我第一個想到的就是
14:07
that the need doesn't change,
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需求本身不會改變，
14:09
but the context and the way
we regulate these relationships
we regulate these relationships
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但是其環境背景
及我們規範關係的方式
及我們規範關係的方式
14:13
changes a lot.
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則有很大的改變。
14:14
On the paradox of choice --
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選擇的悖論
14:18
you know, on the one hand
we relish the novelty
we relish the novelty
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你們都知道，我們一方面津津樂道於
14:21
and the playfulness, I think,
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新奇與好玩，
14:22
to be able to have so many options.
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可以有這麼多選擇。
14:25
And at the same time,
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但是同時，
14:26
as you talk about this cognitive overload,
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妳又談到認知超載，
14:29
I see many, many people who ...
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我看過很多很多人，
14:34
who dread the uncertainty and self-doubt
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因為有太多的選擇，
14:38
that comes with this massa of choice,
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而引起的不確定感與缺乏自信，
14:41
creating a case of "FOMO"
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進而產生所謂的社交控，
14:43
and then leading us --
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使我們──
14:45
FOMO, fear of missed opportunity,
or fear of missing out --
or fear of missing out --
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3315
社交控，又稱錯失恐懼症，
怕錯過任何機會──
怕錯過任何機會──
14:48
it's like, "How do I know
I have found 'the one' --
I have found 'the one' --
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就像：「我怎麼知道我已經
找到真命天子(女)？
找到真命天子(女)？
命中註定那個對的人選呢？」
14:51
the right one?"
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14:52
So we've created what I call
this thing of "stable ambiguity."
this thing of "stable ambiguity."
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所以，我們創造出我稱之為
「穩態曖昧」的一種東西。
「穩態曖昧」的一種東西。
14:56
Stable ambiguity is when
you are too afraid to be alone
you are too afraid to be alone
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「穩態曖昧」就是你既太害怕獨處，
15:00
but also not really willing
to engage in intimacy-building.
to engage in intimacy-building.
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但又不願意與人建立起親密關係。
15:04
It's a set of tactics that kind of prolong
the uncertainty of a relationship
the uncertainty of a relationship
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這是一套策略，
盡可能地拉長一段似有若無的關係。
15:09
but also the uncertainty of the breakup.
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2607
15:12
So, here on the internet
you have three major ones.
you have three major ones.
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所以，在網路上你可以看到
三種主要的手法。
三種主要的手法。
15:15
One is icing and simmering,
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2321
一種就是似冰或像溫火慢燉的關係，
15:17
which are great stalling tactics
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這真是一種絕妙的拖延戰術，
15:20
that offer a kind of holding pattern
329
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給你一種維持關係的模式，
15:23
that emphasizes the undefined
nature of a relationship
nature of a relationship
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3794
既強調一段關係的未定性，
15:26
but at the same time gives you
enough of a comforting consistency
enough of a comforting consistency
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4107
又同時給你足夠的安逸穩定感，
15:31
and enough freedom
of the undefined boundaries.
of the undefined boundaries.
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2757
及足夠的自由
在不明確的界線上遊走。
在不明確的界線上遊走。
15:33
(Laughter)
333
921818
1826
（笑聲）
15:36
Yeah?
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924070
1170
對吧？
15:37
And then comes ghosting.
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1548
然後又有所謂幽靈。
15:38
And ghosting is, basically,
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1972
幽靈基本上就是
15:40
you disappear from this massa
of texts on the spot,
of texts on the spot,
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4520
你咻一聲就人間蒸發，
15:45
and you don't have to deal with
the pain that you inflict on another,
the pain that you inflict on another,
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3785
你不用去處理
你加諸在別人身上的痛苦，
你加諸在別人身上的痛苦，
15:49
because you're making it
invisible even to yourself.
invisible even to yourself.
339
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2598
因為你完全神隱，連自己都看不到！
15:51
(Laughter)
340
939807
1187
（笑聲）
15:53
Yeah?
341
941018
1158
對吧？
15:54
So I was thinking -- these words came up
for me as I was listening to you,
for me as I was listening to you,
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942200
4737
所以我在想──這些名詞
在我聽妳演講時跑出來，
在我聽妳演講時跑出來，
15:58
like how a vocabulary
also creates a reality,
also creates a reality,
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5163
創造出栩栩如生的畫面，
16:04
and at the same time,
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1555
而且同時，
16:05
that's my question to you:
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1684
這是我想問妳的問題：
16:07
Do you think when the context changes,
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2940
你是否認為在環境背景改變之後，
16:10
it still means that the nature
of love remains the same?
of love remains the same?
347
958399
3640
愛的本質仍然不變？
16:14
You study the brain and I study
people's relationships and stories,
people's relationships and stories,
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962063
4098
你研究大腦，
而我研究人的關係及故事，
而我研究人的關係及故事，
16:18
so I think it's everything you say, plus.
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966185
3986
所以我想...的確就像你說的，
還不止。
還不止。
16:22
But I don't always know the degree
to which a changing context ...
to which a changing context ...
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970691
3902
但是我不太明白，
環境背景改變的程度...
環境背景改變的程度...
16:27
Does it at some point begin to change --
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2530
它是在某個時間點開始改變──
16:30
If the meaning changes,
does it change the need,
does it change the need,
352
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2613
如果意義改變了，
需求會不會因此改變，
需求會不會因此改變，
16:32
or is the need clear
of the entire context?
of the entire context?
353
980642
2463
或是說需求跟整體環境背景
一點關係都沒有？
一點關係都沒有？
16:35
HF: Wow! Well --
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983797
1420
海倫：哇，這...
16:37
(Laughter)
355
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2431
（笑聲）
16:39
(Applause)
356
987696
3175
（掌聲）
16:42
Well, I've got three points here, right?
357
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2968
哇，三點對吧？
16:46
First of all, to your first one:
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994736
1826
首先，回答你的第一個問題：
16:48
there's no question that we've changed,
that we now want a person to love,
that we now want a person to love,
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996586
3593
毫無疑問我們已經改變了，
我們現在想要去愛一個人，
我們現在想要去愛一個人，
16:52
and for thousands of years,
we had to marry the right person
we had to marry the right person
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1000203
2845
數千年來，我們都得跟對的人結婚，
16:55
from the right background
and right connection.
and right connection.
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1003072
2271
要門當戶對。
16:57
And in fact, in my studies
of 5,000 people every year,
of 5,000 people every year,
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1005367
3351
事實上，在我每年五千人的研究中，
17:00
I ask them, "What are you looking for?"
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2126
我問他們：「你在找什麼樣的人？」
17:02
And every single year,
over 97 percent say --
over 97 percent say --
364
1010892
2758
每一年，超過 97% 的人都說
17:05
EP: The list grows --
365
1013674
1210
埃：清單變長了？
17:06
HF: Well, no.
366
1014908
1160
海：喔，沒有。
17:08
The basic thing is
over 97 percent of people
over 97 percent of people
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1016092
3323
基本上，就是超過 97% 的人
17:11
want somebody that respects them,
368
1019439
2091
都想要會尊重他們的人，
17:13
somebody they can trust and confide in,
369
1021554
2288
值得信任、傾訴的人，
17:15
somebody who makes them laugh,
370
1023866
1656
會逗他們笑的人，
17:17
somebody who makes enough time for them
371
1025546
1882
特別為他們空出時間的人，
17:19
and somebody who they find
physically attractive.
physically attractive.
372
1027452
3997
還有，外表具吸引力的人。
17:23
That never changes.
373
1031473
1283
這些從未改變。
17:24
And there's certainly -- you know,
there's two parts --
there's two parts --
374
1032780
3178
當然你知道，有兩部分...
17:27
EP: But you know how I call that?
375
1035982
1580
埃：你知道我怎麼稱它嗎？
17:29
That's not what people used to say --
376
1037586
2250
過去大家的回答，不是這樣的。
17:31
HF: That's exactly right.
377
1039860
1230
海：沒錯。
17:33
EP: They said they wanted somebody
with whom they have companionship,
with whom they have companionship,
378
1041114
3299
埃：他們說想要一個能陪伴他們、
能提供經濟支持及喜歡小孩的人。
17:36
economic support, children.
379
1044437
1291
17:37
We went from a production economy
to a service economy.
to a service economy.
380
1045752
2586
我們從生產經濟變成服務經濟。
17:40
(Laughter)
381
1048362
1009
（笑聲）
17:41
We did it in the larger culture,
and we're doing it in marriage.
and we're doing it in marriage.
382
1049395
2981
過去大範圍的文化是這樣，
現在婚姻也變這樣了。
現在婚姻也變這樣了。
海：沒錯，毫無疑問。
17:44
HF: Right, no question about it.
383
1052400
1548
但是很有意思，
千禧世代很想當個好父母，
千禧世代很想當個好父母，
17:45
But it's interesting, the millennials
actually want to be very good parents,
actually want to be very good parents,
384
1053972
3910
17:49
whereas the generation above them
wants to have a very fine marriage
wants to have a very fine marriage
385
1057906
4120
而他們的上一代想的
卻是如何有個好婚姻，
卻是如何有個好婚姻，
17:54
but is not as focused
on being a good parent.
on being a good parent.
386
1062050
2222
不是那麼著重在如何當個好父母。
17:56
You see all of these nuances.
387
1064296
2083
你看到這些細微的不同處。
17:58
There's two basic parts of personality:
388
1066403
2556
個性有兩個基本部分：
18:00
there's your culture -- everything you
grew up to do and believe and say --
grew up to do and believe and say --
389
1068983
3575
一是你的文化，你成長中所做的、
所相信的、所說的──
所相信的、所說的──
18:04
and there's your temperament.
390
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1399
還有就是你的氣質。
18:06
Basically, what I've been talking
about is your temperament.
about is your temperament.
391
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2827
基本上，我今天講的都是你的氣質。
18:08
And that temperament is certainly
going to change with changing times
going to change with changing times
392
1076856
3318
那個氣質一定會隨著
時間及看法而改變。
18:12
and changing beliefs.
393
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1301
18:13
And in terms of the paradox of choice,
394
1081891
3147
至於選擇的悖論，
18:17
there's no question about it
that this is a pickle.
that this is a pickle.
395
1085062
2407
毫無疑問，這的確是個難題。
18:19
There were millions of years
where you found that sweet boy
where you found that sweet boy
396
1087493
2864
幾百萬年來一直都是
你看到一個好男孩
你看到一個好男孩
18:22
at the other side of the water hole,
397
1090381
1725
在水塘的另一邊，
18:24
and you went for it.
398
1092130
1151
你就去了。
18:25
EP: Yes, but you --
399
1093305
1151
埃：是啊，但你...
18:26
HF: I do want to say one more thing.
400
1094480
1747
海：我還想說一件事。
18:28
The bottom line is, in hunting
and gathering societies,
and gathering societies,
401
1096251
2617
基本就是，在狩獵採集的社會，
18:30
they tended to have two or three partners
during the course of their lives.
during the course of their lives.
402
1098892
3598
他們一生中往往有2~3位伴侶。
18:34
They weren't square!
403
1102514
1158
他們沒那麼死板！
18:35
And I'm not suggesting that we do,
404
1103696
1656
我不是說我們也要這麼做，
18:37
but the bottom line is,
we've always had alternatives.
we've always had alternatives.
405
1105376
3976
但基本就是，我們總是有選擇的。
18:41
Mankind is always --
406
1109376
1479
人類總是...
18:42
in fact, the brain is well-built
to what we call "equilibrate,"
to what we call "equilibrate,"
407
1110879
3192
事實上，
大腦在平衡的基礎上，
大腦在平衡的基礎上，
18:46
to try and decide:
408
1114095
1151
去做嘗試與選擇：
18:47
Do I come, do I stay? Do I go, do I stay?
409
1115270
2434
我要來嗎？我要留嗎？
我要去嗎？我要留嗎？
我要去嗎？我要留嗎？
18:49
What are the opportunities here?
410
1117728
1548
這裡有什麼機會？
18:51
How do I handle this there?
411
1119300
1302
我要怎麼處理這個？
18:52
And so I think we're seeing
another play-out of that now.
another play-out of that now.
412
1120626
2961
所以我想這部分也要漸漸消失了。
18:56
KS: Well, thank you both so much.
413
1124052
1623
很好，謝謝兩位。
18:57
I think you're going to have
a million dinner partners for tonight!
a million dinner partners for tonight!
414
1125699
3206
我想你們今晚會有百萬名飯友了！
19:00
(Applause)
415
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1979
（掌聲）
19:02
Thank you, thank you.
416
1130932
1181
謝謝妳，謝謝！
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Helen Fisher - Anthropologist, expert on loveAnthropologist Helen Fisher studies gender differences and the evolution of human emotions. She’s best known as an expert on romantic love.
Why you should listen
Fisher's several books lay bare the mysteries of our most treasured emotion: its evolution, its biochemical foundations and its vital importance to human society. Fisher describes love as a universal human drive (stronger than the sex drive; stronger than thirst or hunger; stronger perhaps than the will to live), and her many areas of inquiry shed light on timeless human mysteries like why we choose one partner over another. Her classic study, Anatomy of Love, first published in 1992, has just been re-issued in a fully updated edition, including her recent neuroimaging research on lust, romantic love and attachment as well as discussions of sexting, hooking up, friends with benefits, other contemporary trends in courtship and marriage, and a dramatic current trend she calls “slow love.”
Helen Fisher | Speaker | TED.com