TEDxGroningen
Alison Killing: What happens when a city runs out of room for its dead
Alison Killing: Hvad sker der når en by løber tør for plads til de døde
Filmed:
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"Hvis du vil ud og starte din egen kirkegård" i UK, siger Alison Killing,
"så kan du faktisk." Hun tænker meget på hvor vi dør og hvor vi bliver begravet - og i dette foredrag, vil arkitekten og TED stipendiat, tilbyde en øjenåbner for økonomien og det sociale perspektiv ved et overset funktion i vores byer; kirkegården. Når hun taler om de UK love, pakker hun op for det spændende og nogle gange sjove, ofte modstridige love vedrørende, hvor du kan begraves.
Alison Killing - Architect
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment. Full bio
An architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So, I have an overlooked
but potentially lucrative
but potentially lucrative
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Jeg har en overset,
men potentiel lukrativ
men potentiel lukrativ
00:17
investment opportunity for you.
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investeringsmulighed til jer.
00:20
Over the past 10 years in the UK,
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I løbet af de sidste 10 år i UK,
00:22
the return on burial plots
has outperformed the UK property market
has outperformed the UK property market
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har afkastet ved begravelsespladser
udkonkurreret ejendomsmarkedet
udkonkurreret ejendomsmarkedet
00:26
by a ratio of around three to one.
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med et forhold der hedder tre til en.
00:29
There are private cemeteries being set up
with plots for sale to investors,
with plots for sale to investors,
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Der er kommet private kirkegårde
med grunde til salg for investorer,
med grunde til salg for investorer,
00:33
and they start at around 3,900 pounds.
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og de starter omkring 3.900 pund.
00:36
And they're projected to achieve
about 40 percent growth.
about 40 percent growth.
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Og de er projekteret til at opnå
en stigning på 40 procent.
en stigning på 40 procent.
00:40
The biggest advantage is that this
is a market with continuous demand.
is a market with continuous demand.
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Den største fordel er at dette
market har kontinuerlig efterspørgsel.
market har kontinuerlig efterspørgsel.
00:47
Now, this is a real proposition,
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Det er et seriøst forslag
00:50
and there are companies out there
that really are offering this investment,
that really are offering this investment,
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og der er firmaer derude
som virkelig tilbyder denne investering,
som virkelig tilbyder denne investering,
00:54
but my interest in it is quite different.
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men min interesse i det er anderledes.
00:57
I'm an architect and urban designer,
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Jeg er en arkitekt og en urban designer,
00:59
and for the past year and a half,
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og i det sidste halvandet år
01:01
I've been looking at approaches
to death and dying
to death and dying
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har jeg undersøgt hvordan man griber
døden og det at dø an
døden og det at dø an
01:04
and at how they've shaped our cities
and the buildings within them.
and the buildings within them.
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og hvordan det former vores byer
og bygningerne i dem.
og bygningerne i dem.
01:08
So in the summer,
I did my first exhibition
I did my first exhibition
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Så i sommers,
lavede jeg min første udstilling
lavede jeg min første udstilling
01:11
on death and architecture in Venice,
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om død og arkitektur i Venedig,
01:14
and it was called "Death in Venice."
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og det hed "Død i Venedig".
01:16
And because death is a subject
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Fordi død er et emne,
01:18
that many of us find quite
uncomfortable to talk about,
uncomfortable to talk about,
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som mange af os finder en smule
ukomfortabelt at tale om,
ukomfortabelt at tale om,
01:21
the exhibition was designed
to be quite playful,
to be quite playful,
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var udstillingen designet til
at være spøgende,
at være spøgende,
01:24
so that people would
literally engage with it.
literally engage with it.
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så folk bogstavelig talt
engagerede sig i det.
engagerede sig i det.
01:26
So one of our exhibits
was an interactive map of London
was an interactive map of London
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Én af vores udstillinger
var et interaktivt kort over London
var et interaktivt kort over London
01:30
which showed just how much
of the real estate in the city
of the real estate in the city
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som viste hvor meget af
ejendommene i byerne
ejendommene i byerne
01:33
is given over to death.
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er overgivet til død.
01:35
As you wave your hand across the map,
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Mens du bevæger din hånd over kortet
01:37
the name of the piece of real estate --
the building or the cemetery --
the building or the cemetery --
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så vil navnet på det stykke ejedom -
bygning eller kirkegård -
bygning eller kirkegård -
01:41
is revealed.
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blive vist.
01:42
And those white shapes that you can see,
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Og de hvide figurer, du kan se,
01:45
they're all of the hospitals and hospices
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det er alle hospitalerne og hospicerne,
01:48
and mortuaries and cemeteries in the city.
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lighusene og kirkegårdene i byen.
01:51
In fact, the majority are cemeteries.
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Faktisk, så er størstedelen kirkegårde.
01:53
We wanted to show that, even though
death and burial are things
death and burial are things
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Vi ville vise, at selvom dødsfald og
begravelse er ting
begravelse er ting
01:58
that we might not think about,
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som vi ikke tænker på,
01:59
they're all around us, and they're
important parts of our cities.
important parts of our cities.
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så er det omkring os og der
er en vigtig del af vores byer.
er en vigtig del af vores byer.
02:04
So about half a million people
die in the UK each year,
die in the UK each year,
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Omkring en halv million mennesker
dør om året, i UK,
dør om året, i UK,
02:08
and of those, around a quarter
will want to be buried.
will want to be buried.
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og ud af dem, vil noget nær
en fjerdedes begraves.
en fjerdedes begraves.
02:11
But the UK, like many
Western European countries,
Western European countries,
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Men UK, ligesom mange vestlige
europæiske lande,
europæiske lande,
02:15
is running out of burial space,
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løber tør for begravelsessteder,
02:17
especially in the major cities.
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især i de store byer.
02:19
And the Greater London Authority
has been aware of this for a while,
has been aware of this for a while,
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"The Greater London Authority" har
været bevidst om dette længe
været bevidst om dette længe
02:23
and the main causes are population growth,
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og hovedårsagerne er, befolkningsvæksten
02:26
the fact that existing
cemeteries are almost full.
cemeteries are almost full.
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og de eksistrende kirkegårde
næsten er fyldt op.
næsten er fyldt op.
02:29
There's a custom in the UK that graves
are considered to be occupied forever,
are considered to be occupied forever,
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Der er en skik i UK, om at grave
er betragtet som værende optaget forevigt,
er betragtet som værende optaget forevigt,
02:33
and there's also development pressure --
people want to use that same land
people want to use that same land
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og der er også et udviklingspres -
folk vil gerne benytte samme jord til
folk vil gerne benytte samme jord til
02:37
to build houses or offices or shops.
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at bygge huse, kontorer eller butikker.
02:41
So they came up with a few solutions.
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Så de kom med et par løsninger.
02:43
They were like, well, maybe we can
reuse those graves after 50 years.
reuse those graves after 50 years.
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De mente, at man måske kunne genbruge
gravene efter 50 år,
gravene efter 50 år,
02:47
Or maybe we can bury people,
like, four deep,
like, four deep,
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eller måske kan vi begrave
folk i flere lag,
folk i flere lag,
02:50
so that four people can be buried
in the same plot,
in the same plot,
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så kan fire personer begraves,
på samme plads,
på samme plads,
02:53
and we can make more efficient use
of the land that way,
of the land that way,
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og vi kan mere effektivt
benytte pladsen,
benytte pladsen,
02:55
and in that way, hopefully London
will still have space to bury people
will still have space to bury people
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på den måde, kan vi håbe på
at London stadig har plads at begrave folk
at London stadig har plads at begrave folk
02:59
in the near future.
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i den nærmeste fremtid.
03:01
But, traditionally, cemeteries
haven't been taken care of
haven't been taken care of
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Men, traditionelt, kirkegårde
er ikke blevet taget hånd
er ikke blevet taget hånd
03:03
by the local authority.
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om af den lokale autoritet.
03:05
In fact, the surprising thing is that
there's no legal obligation
there's no legal obligation
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Faktisk, er en overraskende ting
at der ikke er legale forpligtiglser
at der ikke er legale forpligtiglser
03:08
on anyone in the UK
to provide burial space.
to provide burial space.
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på nogen i UK til at forsyne os
med begravelsessteder.
med begravelsessteder.
03:12
Traditionally, it's been done
by private and religious organizations,
by private and religious organizations,
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Traditionelt er det blevet gjort
af private og religiøse organisationer,
af private og religiøse organisationer,
03:17
like churches and mosques and synagogues.
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som kirker, moskeer og synagoer.
03:20
But there's also occasionally
been a for-profit group
been a for-profit group
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Men indimellem har der også
været en profit-søgende gruppe
været en profit-søgende gruppe
03:24
who has wanted to get in on the act.
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som gerne ville være med i legen.
03:26
And, you know, they look at
the small size of a burial plot
the small size of a burial plot
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Og, du ved, de ser på de
små begravelsesgrunde
små begravelsesgrunde
03:30
and that high cost,
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og den høje pris,
03:31
and it looks like there's
serious money to be made.
serious money to be made.
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så ser du ud som om
at der er seriøse penge at hente.
at der er seriøse penge at hente.
03:34
So, actually, if you want to go out
and start your own cemetery,
and start your own cemetery,
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Faktisk, hvis du har lyst til
at starte din egen kirkegård
at starte din egen kirkegård
03:38
you kind of can.
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kan du på en måde godt.
03:39
There was this couple in South Wales,
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Der var et par i det sydlige Wales,
03:41
and they had a farmhouse
and a load of fields next to it,
and a load of fields next to it,
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som havde en gård
med en masse jord til,
med en masse jord til,
03:45
and they wanted to develop the land.
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og de ville gerne udvikle jorden.
03:47
They had a load of ideas.
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De havde en masse idéer.
03:48
They first thought about making
a caravan park,
a caravan park,
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Først havde de tænkt på at
lave en campingplads,
lave en campingplads,
03:51
but the council said no.
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men kommunalbestyrelsen sagde nej.
03:53
And then they wanted to make a fish farm
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Så ville de lave en fiskefarm
03:55
and again the council said no.
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og igen sagde kommunalbestyrelsen nej.
03:57
Then they hit on the idea
of making a cemetery
of making a cemetery
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Derefter kom de på idéer om
at lave en kirkegård
at lave en kirkegård
04:00
and they calculated that by doing this,
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og de regnede på det,
04:02
they could increase
the value of their land
the value of their land
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det ville øge værdien af deres jord
04:05
from about 95,000 pounds
to over one million pounds.
to over one million pounds.
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fra cirka 95.000 pund
til over en million pund.
til over en million pund.
04:10
But just to come back to this idea
of making profit from cemeteries,
of making profit from cemeteries,
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Men for at komme tilbage til idéen
om at lave penge på kirkegårde,
om at lave penge på kirkegårde,
04:15
like, it's kind of ludicrous, right?
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så er det vel en smule latterligt, ikke?
04:18
The thing is that the high cost
of those burial plots
of those burial plots
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Sagen er at den høje pris
på de begravelsespladser
på de begravelsespladser
04:21
is actually very misleading.
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faktisk er meget misvisende.
04:23
They look like they're expensive,
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De ser ud som om de er meget dyre
04:25
but that cost reflects the fact that
you need to maintain the burial plot --
you need to maintain the burial plot --
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men den pris afspejler det faktum
at du skal vedligeholde grundene -
at du skal vedligeholde grundene -
04:29
like, someone has to cut the grass
for the next 50 years.
for the next 50 years.
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ligesom du skulle slå græsset
i de næste 50 år.
i de næste 50 år.
04:33
That means it's very difficult
to make money from cemeteries.
to make money from cemeteries.
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Det betyder at det er svært
at tjene penge på kirkegårde.
at tjene penge på kirkegårde.
04:36
And it's the reason that normally
they're run by the council
they're run by the council
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Det er grunden til at det normalt
bliver drevet af byrådet
bliver drevet af byrådet
04:39
or by a not-for-profit group.
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eller af en frivillig organisation.
04:41
But anyway, the council granted
these people permission,
these people permission,
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Alligevel gav byrådet tilladelse
til ægteparret
til ægteparret
04:43
and they're now trying
to build their cemetery.
to build their cemetery.
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som nu prøver at bygge deres kirkegård.
04:46
So just to explain to you
kind of how this works:
kind of how this works:
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Lige for at forklare jeg hvordan
dette fungerer:
dette fungerer:
04:49
If I want to build something in the UK,
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Hvis jeg vil bygge noget i UK,
04:51
like a cemetery for example,
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som for eksempel en kirkegård,
04:53
then I have to apply
for planning permission first.
for planning permission first.
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så skal jeg først søge om
byggetilladelse.
byggetilladelse.
04:56
So if I want to build a new
office building for a client
office building for a client
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Hvis jeg vil bygge et nyt kontor
for en klient
for en klient
05:01
or if I want to extend my home
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eller hvis jeg vil bygge til mit eget hjem
05:03
or, you know, if I have a shop
and I want to convert it into an office,
and I want to convert it into an office,
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eller hvis jeg har en butik som jeg
gerne vil omdanne til et kontor,
gerne vil omdanne til et kontor,
05:07
I have to do a load of drawings,
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skal jeg lave en masse tegninger
05:08
and I submit them
to the council for permission.
to the council for permission.
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derefter indsende dem
til byrådet for tilladelse.
til byrådet for tilladelse.
05:11
And they'll look at things like
how it fits in the surroundings.
how it fits in the surroundings.
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De vil se på forskellige ting,
som, hvordan det passer til omgivelserne.
som, hvordan det passer til omgivelserne.
05:15
So they'll look at what it looks like.
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Så ser de på dets udseende.
05:17
But they'll also think about things
like what impact is it going to have
like what impact is it going to have
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Men de vil også tænke på hvilken
indflydelse det får
indflydelse det får
05:20
on the local environment?
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på det lokale miljø?
05:22
And they'll be thinking about things like,
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De vil tænke på ting som,
05:24
is this thing going to cause pollution
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vil dette forårsage forurening
05:26
or is there going to be a lot of traffic
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eller vil der være meget traffik
05:28
that wants to go to this thing
that I've built?
that I've built?
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som vil forbi det jeg er ved at bygge?
05:30
But also good things.
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Men også gode ting.
05:32
Is it going to add local services
like shops to the neighborhood
like shops to the neighborhood
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Vil de tilføje lokal tjenester
som butikker til nabolaget
som butikker til nabolaget
05:35
that local people would like to use?
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som lokale folk som os benytter?
05:38
And they'll weigh up the advantages
and the disadvantages
and the disadvantages
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Så vil de opveje fordele og ulemper
05:40
and they'll make a decision.
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for at lave en afgørelse.
05:42
So that's how it works if I want
to build a large cemetery.
to build a large cemetery.
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Det er sådan det fungerer,
hvis jeg vil bygge en stor kirkegård.
hvis jeg vil bygge en stor kirkegård.
05:47
But what if I've got a piece of land
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Men hvad nu hvis jeg i forevejen
havde et stykke land
havde et stykke land
05:49
and I just want to bury
a few people, like five or six?
a few people, like five or six?
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og jeg ville begrave nogle få
mennesker, måske fem-seks stykker?
mennesker, måske fem-seks stykker?
05:53
Well, then -- actually, I don't need
permission from anyone!
permission from anyone!
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Godt, så - faktisk, så behøver jeg
ikke tilladelse fra nogen!
ikke tilladelse fra nogen!
05:57
There's actually almost no regulation
in the UK around burial,
in the UK around burial,
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Der er stort set ikke nogen regulering
i UK vedrørende begravelse,
i UK vedrørende begravelse,
06:02
and the little bit that there is,
is about not polluting water courses,
is about not polluting water courses,
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og den smule der er,
omhandler at man ikke må forurene vandet,
omhandler at man ikke må forurene vandet,
06:05
like not polluting rivers or groundwater.
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som floder og grundvandet.
06:08
So actually, if you want to go
and make your own mini-cemetery,
and make your own mini-cemetery,
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Så hvis du har lyst til at lave din egen
mini kirkegård
mini kirkegård
06:12
then you can.
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kan du bare gøre det.
06:13
But I mean, like -- really,
who does this? Right?
who does this? Right?
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Men seriøst - hvem har
virkelig lyst til det? Ikke?
virkelig lyst til det? Ikke?
06:18
Well, if you're an aristocratic family
and you have a large estate,
and you have a large estate,
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Hvis du er i en aristokratisk familie
og du har en stor grund,
og du har en stor grund,
06:21
then there's a chance that you'll
have a mausoleum on it,
have a mausoleum on it,
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så er der en chance for at du
har et mausoleum på det,
har et mausoleum på det,
06:24
and you'll bury your family there.
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og de vil begrave din familie der.
06:26
But the really weird thing
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Men det mest mærkelige
06:28
is that you don't need to have
a piece of land of a certain size
a piece of land of a certain size
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er at du ikke behøver at have
en bestemt størrelse land
en bestemt størrelse land
06:32
before you're allowed
to start burying people on it.
to start burying people on it.
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før du må begrave folk i den.
06:34
And so that means that, technically,
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Det betyder, teknisk set,
06:36
this applies to, like, the back garden
of your house in the suburbs.
of your house in the suburbs.
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at baghaven til dit hus i forstaden
kunne gå an.
kunne gå an.
06:40
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
06:42
So what if you wanted
to try this yourself at home?
to try this yourself at home?
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Hvad nu hvis du ville prøve dette
hjemme hos dig selv?
hjemme hos dig selv?
06:46
Well, there's a few councils
that have guidance on their website
that have guidance on their website
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Der er nogle få byråd som har
vejledning på deres hjemmeside
vejledning på deres hjemmeside
06:50
which can help you.
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som kan hjælpe dig.
06:51
So, the first thing that they tell you
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Det første de fortæller dig
06:54
is that you need to have a certificate
of burial before you can go ahead --
of burial before you can go ahead --
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er at du skulle have et begravelses
certifikat, før du kan begynde -
certifikat, før du kan begynde -
06:57
you're not allowed to just murder people
and put them under the patio.
and put them under the patio.
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du har ikke tilladelse til at slå folk
ihjel og begrave dem i haven.
ihjel og begrave dem i haven.
07:01
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
07:04
They also tell you that you need to keep
a record of where the grave is.
a record of where the grave is.
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De vil også informere dig om,
at du skal holde regnskab over dine grave.
at du skal holde regnskab over dine grave.
07:08
But that's pretty much it
for formal requirements.
for formal requirements.
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Men det er stort set
de formelle krav der stilles.
de formelle krav der stilles.
07:10
Now, they do warn you that
your neighbors might not like this,
your neighbors might not like this,
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Dog advarer de dig om at
din naboer måske ikke kan lide det,
din naboer måske ikke kan lide det,
07:13
but, legally speaking, there's almost
nothing that they can do about it.
nothing that they can do about it.
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men, legalt set, kan de næsten
ikke gøre noget.
ikke gøre noget.
07:17
And just in case any of you
still had that profit idea in your mind
still had that profit idea in your mind
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I tilfælde af at nogle af jer
stadig har den tanke om profit i hovedet
stadig har den tanke om profit i hovedet
07:22
about how much those burial plots cost
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om værdien på de begravelsespladser
07:25
and how much money
you might be able to make,
you might be able to make,
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og hvor mange penge du
har mulighed for at tjene
har mulighed for at tjene
07:27
they also warn that it might cause
the value of your house
the value of your house
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så advarer de, at det kan have
indflydelse på husets værdi
indflydelse på husets værdi
07:30
to drop by 20 percent.
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som kan falde 20 procent.
07:32
Although, actually, it's more likely
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Selvom det nok er mere sandsynligt
07:34
that no one will want to buy
your house at all after that.
your house at all after that.
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at ingen vil købe dit hus bagefter.
07:38
So what I find fascinating about this
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Det jeg fandt spændende ved det
07:40
is the fact that it kind of sums up
many of our attitudes towards death.
many of our attitudes towards death.
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er det faktum at det faktisk opsamler
mange af vores holdninger til døden.
mange af vores holdninger til døden.
07:46
In the UK, and I think that the figures
across Europe are probably similar,
across Europe are probably similar,
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I UK, og jeg tror det er ligeså
andre steder i Europa,
andre steder i Europa,
07:50
only about 30 percent of people
have ever talked to anyone
have ever talked to anyone
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kun omkring 30 procent af folk,
har nogensinde talt med nogen
har nogensinde talt med nogen
07:53
about their wishes around death,
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om deres ønske vedrørende døden,
07:55
and even for people over 75,
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og endda for folk over 75 år,
07:57
only 45 percent of people
have ever talked about this.
have ever talked about this.
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er der kun 45 procent
som har snakket om det.
som har snakket om det.
08:01
And the reasons that
people give ... you know,
people give ... you know,
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Og det er grunden til folk giver...
du ved,
du ved,
08:04
they think that their death is far off
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de tror at døden er langt væk
08:06
or they think that they're going
to make people uncomfortable
to make people uncomfortable
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eller de tror,
at det vil gøre folk utilpasse
at det vil gøre folk utilpasse
08:08
by talking about it.
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ved at tale om det.
08:10
And you know, to a certain extent,
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Til en vis udstrækning,
08:12
there are other people out there
who are taking care of things for us.
who are taking care of things for us.
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så er der folk derude som
tager sig af tingene for os.
tager sig af tingene for os.
08:15
The government has all this regulation
and bureaucracy around things
and bureaucracy around things
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Regeringen har alle de reguleringer
og bureaukrati involveret
og bureaukrati involveret
08:19
like burying a death, for example,
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ligesom ved begravelse af en død,
08:21
and there's people like funeral directors
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folk som er begravelsesdirektører
08:23
who devote their entire
working lives to this issue.
working lives to this issue.
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som vier hele deres arbejdsliv
til dette problem.
til dette problem.
08:26
But when it comes to our cities
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Men når det kommer til byerne
08:27
and thinking about how
death fits in our cities,
death fits in our cities,
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og tanken om hvordan døden
passer ind i vores byer,
passer ind i vores byer,
08:30
there's much less regulation
and design and thought
and design and thought
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så er der meget færre reguleringer
og design og tanker
og design og tanker
08:35
than we might imagine.
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end vi forestiller os.
08:36
So we're not thinking about this,
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Det vil sige, vi tænker ikke på det,
08:38
but all of the people we imagine
are thinking about it --
are thinking about it --
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men de folk vi tror tænker på det,
08:41
they're not taking care of it either.
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de tager sig heller ikke af det.
08:43
Thank you.
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Tak.
08:44
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Killing - ArchitectAn architect and urban designer, Alison Killing uses journalism, filmmaking and exhibitions to help people better understand the built environment.
Why you should listen
Alison Killing is an architect and urban designer working to engage people with their built environment, via design of buildings and urban strategies, film making, exhibitions and events. She explores the relationship between death and modern architecture, looking at how cities are rebuilt after disaster.
Recent projects include Death in the City (and its first iteration, Death in Venice, which was shown as an independent event during the opening week of the Venice Architecture Biennale), a touring exhibition about death and modern architecture; work with the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies on better rebuilding after disaster and how to integrate relevant urban design tools into humanitarian response; and a study of financial models for arts and community projects temporarily using vacant buildings to help these projects become self-sustaining.
Alison Killing | Speaker | TED.com