TEDGlobal 2013
Julian Treasure: How to speak so that people want to listen
Julian Treasure: Kako govoriti, da bodo ljudje želeli poslušati?
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Ste se že kdaj počutili, kot da govorite, a vas nihče ne posluša? Tu je Julian Treasure, ki vam lahko priskoči na pomoč. V tem koristnem govoru, strokovnjak za zvok prikazuje uporabne namige za vplivno govorjenje - od nekaj priročnih vokalnih vaj do nasvetov, kako govoriti z empatijo. Govor, ki bi lahko pomagal, da bi se svet slišal lepše.
Julian Treasure - Sound consultant
Julian Treasure studies sound and advises businesses on how best to use it. Full bio
Julian Treasure studies sound and advises businesses on how best to use it. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:14
The human voice:
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Človeški glas:
Glasbilo, na katerega igramo vsi.
00:16
It's the instrument we all play.
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00:18
It's the most powerful sound in the world, probably.
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Je najverjetneje
najmogočnejši zvok na svetu.
najmogočnejši zvok na svetu.
00:20
It's the only one that can start a war
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Je edini, ki lahko sproži vojno
00:22
or say "I love you."
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ali reče: "Ljubim te."
00:24
And yet many people have the experience
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A kljub temu veliko ljudi doživi,
da jih ljudje ne poslušajo, ko govorijo.
da jih ljudje ne poslušajo, ko govorijo.
00:25
that when they speak, people don't listen to them.
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00:28
And why is that?
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Zakaj je temu tako?
00:29
How can we speak powerfully
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Kako lahko govorimo z vplivom,
00:31
to make change in the world?
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da spremenimo svet?
00:33
What I'd like to suggest, there are
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Mislim, da gre pri tem le za veliko navad,
ki se jim moramo odreči.
ki se jim moramo odreči.
00:35
a number of habits that we need to move away from.
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00:37
I've assembled for your pleasure here
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Tako sem tu pripravil
00:39
seven deadly sins of speaking.
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seznam sedmih smrtnih grehov govorjenja.
00:41
I'm not pretending this is an exhaustive list,
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To ni nikakršen končen seznam,
00:43
but these seven, I think, are pretty large
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a mislim, da je tu sedem
precej obsežnih navad,
precej obsežnih navad,
00:46
habits that we can all fall into.
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ki jim lahko podležemo.
00:49
First, gossip,
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Prva, opravljanje;
00:52
speaking ill of somebody who's not present.
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govoriti slabo o nekom, ki ga ni tam.
00:54
Not a nice habit, and we know perfectly well
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Ni lepa navada, in zelo dobro vemo,
da bo oseba, s katero opravljamo,
da bo oseba, s katero opravljamo,
00:56
the person gossiping five minutes later
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čez pet minut opravljala nas.
00:58
will be gossiping about us.
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01:01
Second, judging.
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Druga, obsojanje.
01:03
We know people who are like this in conversation,
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Vsi poznamo koga, ki je tak v pogovoru
in težko je poslušati nekoga,
in težko je poslušati nekoga,
01:05
and it's very hard to listen to somebody
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vedoč, da te obsoja
in hkrati vceplja občutek manjvrednosti.
in hkrati vceplja občutek manjvrednosti.
01:07
if you know that you're being judged
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01:09
and found wanting at the same time.
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01:12
Third, negativity.
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Tretja, negativnost.
01:14
You can fall into this.
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Lahko zapadete vanjo.
01:15
My mother, in the last years of her life,
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Moja mati je v zadnjih letih življenja
01:17
became very, very negative, and it's hard to listen.
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postala zelo negativna
in težko je to poslušati.
in težko je to poslušati.
01:19
I remember one day, I said to her,
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Spominjam se, da sem ji nekega dne rekel:
"Danes je prvi oktober."
"Danes je prvi oktober."
01:21
"It's October 1 today,"
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01:22
and she said, "I know, isn't it dreadful?"
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in odgovorila je: "Vem, ali ni grozno?"
(Smeh)
01:25
(Laughter)
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01:27
It's hard to listen when somebody's that negative.
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Težko je poslušati, če je nekdo
tako zelo negativen.
tako zelo negativen.
01:30
And another form of negativity, complaining.
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Druga oblika nezadovoljstva, pritoževanje.
01:33
Well, this is the national art of the U.K.
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To je nacionalna umetnost
Velike Britanije.
Velike Britanije.
Je naš nacionalni šport.
01:37
It's our national sport. We
complain about the weather,
complain about the weather,
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Pritožujemo se čez vreme,
šport, politiko, vse,
šport, politiko, vse,
01:39
about sport, about politics, about everything,
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a pritoževanje je pravzaprav virusni obup.
01:42
but actually complaining is viral misery.
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01:44
It's not spreading sunshine
and lightness in the world.
and lightness in the world.
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Ni širjenje svetlobe
in lahkotnosti po svetu.
in lahkotnosti po svetu.
01:48
Excuses. We've all met this guy.
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Izgovori. Vsi smo že srečali tega tipa.
01:51
Maybe we've all been this guy.
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Mogoče smo že vsi bili ta tip.
01:52
Some people have a blamethrower.
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Nekateri ljudje imajo metalec krivde.
01:55
They just pass it on to everybody else
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Samo prelagajo jo na vse ostale in ne
prevzemajo odgovornosti za svoja dejanja.
prevzemajo odgovornosti za svoja dejanja.
01:57
and don't take responsibility for their actions,
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01:59
and again, hard to listen to
somebody who is being like that.
somebody who is being like that.
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Spet, so to ljudje,
ki jih je zelo težko poslušati.
ki jih je zelo težko poslušati.
02:02
Penultimate, the sixth of the seven,
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Predzadnja, šesta od sedmih,
02:04
embroidery, exaggeration.
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leporečenje, pretiravanje.
02:08
It demeans our language, actually, sometimes.
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Včasih pravzaprav razvrednotita naš jezik.
02:10
For example, if I see something
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Na primer, če vidim nekaj,
kar je zares super,
kar je zares super,
02:12
that really is awesome,
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02:14
what do I call it?
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kako bom to opisal?
02:15
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:17
And then of course this exaggeration becomes lying,
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In potem to pretiravanje postane laganje,
02:20
out and out lying, and we don't want to listen
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dan in noč laganje in nočemo poslušati
ljudi, za katere vemo, da nam lažejo.
ljudi, za katere vemo, da nam lažejo.
02:22
to people we know are lying to us.
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02:24
And finally, dogmatism,
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In zadnja, dogmatizem;
02:27
the confusion of facts with opinions.
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pomešati dejstva z mnenji.
Ko se ta dva pojma združita,
je vse mlatenje prazne slame.
je vse mlatenje prazne slame.
02:31
When those two things get conflated,
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02:33
you're listening into the wind.
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02:34
You know, somebody is bombarding you
with their opinions as if they were true.
with their opinions as if they were true.
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Saj veste, nekdo vas zasuva
s svojimi mnenji, kot da so resnica.
s svojimi mnenji, kot da so resnica.
02:38
It's difficult to listen to that.
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Temu je težko prisluhniti.
02:40
So here they are, seven deadly sins of speaking.
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Tu je sedem smrtnih grehov govorjenja.
02:43
These are things I think we need to avoid.
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To so reči, ki bi se jim morali izogibati.
02:46
But is there a positive way to think about this?
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Ali obstaja način, kako o tem
razmišljati pozitivno?
razmišljati pozitivno?
02:48
Yes, there is.
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Da, obstaja.
02:50
I'd like to suggest that there are four
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Mislim, da obstajajo štirje zelo močni
vogali, temelji, na katerih lahko stojimo,
vogali, temelji, na katerih lahko stojimo,
02:52
really powerful cornerstones, foundations,
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02:55
that we can stand on if we want our speech
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če želimo, da je naš govor vpliven
02:58
to be powerful and to make change in the world.
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in bo povzročil spremembe v svetu.
03:01
Fortunately, these things spell a word.
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Na srečo te reči črkujejo besedo.
03:04
The word is "hail," and it has
a great definition as well.
a great definition as well.
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Beseda je "hail" (toča)
in ima tudi odlično definicijo.
in ima tudi odlično definicijo.
03:07
I'm not talking about the stuff that falls from the sky
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Ne govorim o snovi,
ki pada z neba in ti poškoduje glavo.
ki pada z neba in ti poškoduje glavo.
03:09
and hits you on the head.
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03:10
I'm talking about this definition,
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Govorim o tej definiciji,
pozdraviti z navdušenjem,
pozdraviti z navdušenjem,
03:12
to greet or acclaim enthusiastically,
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03:14
which is how I think our words will be received
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s čimer mislim na to,
kako bodo naše besede sprejete,
kako bodo naše besede sprejete,
03:17
if we stand on these four things.
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če se opiramo na te štiri reči.
03:18
So what do they stand for?
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Kaj torej predstavljajo?
03:20
See if you can guess.
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Poskušajte uganiti.
03:21
The H, honesty, of course,
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Poštenost, seveda;
03:25
being true in what you say, being straight and clear.
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govoriti resnico, biti direkten in jasen.
03:28
The A is authenticity, just being yourself.
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Pristnost, biti to kar si.
03:32
A friend of mine described it as
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Moj prijatelj jo je opisal kot
stati v svoji lastni resnici,
stati v svoji lastni resnici,
03:33
standing in your own truth,
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03:35
which I think is a lovely way to put it.
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kar mislim, da je posrečeno.
03:37
The I is integrity, being your word,
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Zanesljivost, biti mož beseda,
dejansko narediti, kar obljubiš,
dejansko narediti, kar obljubiš,
03:40
actually doing what you say,
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03:41
and being somebody people can trust.
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in biti nekdo, ki mu lahko ljudje zaupajo.
03:44
And the L is love.
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In še ljubezen.
03:47
I don't mean romantic love,
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Ne govorim o romantični ljubezni,
03:49
but I do mean wishing people well, for two reasons.
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ampak o dobronamernosti
in to iz dveh razlogov.
in to iz dveh razlogov.
03:52
First of all, I think absolute honesty
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Prvič, ker mislim, da absolutna poštenost
mogoče ni tisto, kar hočemo.
mogoče ni tisto, kar hočemo.
03:55
may not be what we want.
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Mislim, mojbog, kako grda si to jutro.
03:56
I mean, my goodness, you look ugly this morning.
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03:58
Perhaps that's not necessary.
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Morda to ni ravno potrebno.
04:02
Tempered with love, of course,
honesty is a great thing.
honesty is a great thing.
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Kaljena z ljubeznijo, seveda,
je poštenost odlična stvar.
je poštenost odlična stvar.
04:05
But also, if you're really wishing somebody well,
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Poleg tega, če nekomu res želite dobro,
04:08
it's very hard to judge them at the same time.
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jih je zelo težko hkrati obsojati.
04:11
I'm not even sure you can do those two things
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Sploh nisem prepričan,
če lahko ti dve stvari
če lahko ti dve stvari
04:13
simultaneously.
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počnete hkrati.
04:15
So hail.
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Zato toča.
04:17
Also, now that's what you say,
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To je to, kar govorite,
in je kot tista pesem,
in je kot tista pesem,
04:18
and it's like the old song, it is what you say,
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bistvo je, kar govorite,
ampak je tudi, kako govorite.
ampak je tudi, kako govorite.
04:20
it's also the way that you say it.
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04:22
You have an amazing toolbox.
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Imate čudovito škatlo z orodjem.
04:24
This instrument is incredible,
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Ta inštrument je neverjeten,
04:26
and yet this is a toolbox that very
few people have ever opened.
few people have ever opened.
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a vendar je to škatlo do sedaj
odprlo zelo malo ljudi.
odprlo zelo malo ljudi.
Rad bi z vami malo pošaril tam noter
in potegnil ven nekaj orodij,
in potegnil ven nekaj orodij,
04:29
I'd like to have a little rummage in there
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04:31
with you now and just pull a few tools out
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ki jih boste morda odnesli,
da se z njimi poigrate,
da se z njimi poigrate,
04:33
that you might like to take away and play with,
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04:35
which will increase the power of your speaking.
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kar bo povečalo moč vašega govorjenja.
04:38
Register, for example.
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Register, na primer.
04:40
Now, falsetto register may not
be very useful most of the time,
be very useful most of the time,
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Mogoče falzet večinoma ni ravno uporaben,
04:44
but there's a register in between.
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a obstaja register nekje vmes.
04:46
I'm not going to get very technical about this
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Ne bom šel v tehnične podrobnosti
za vse vokalne učitelje.
za vse vokalne učitelje.
04:47
for any of you who are voice coaches.
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04:49
You can locate your voice, however.
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Vendar lahko poiščete svoj glas.
04:51
So if I talk up here in my nose,
you can hear the difference.
you can hear the difference.
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Če zdaj govorim skozi nos,
lahko slišite razliko.
lahko slišite razliko.
04:53
If I go down here in my throat,
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Če govorim nizko iz grla, takole,
04:55
which is where most of us
speak from most of the time.
speak from most of the time.
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mesta, iz katerega
večinoma govorimo vsi.
večinoma govorimo vsi.
04:58
But if you want weight,
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A če hočete težo,
05:00
you need to go down here to the chest.
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morate globoko dol v prsni koš.
05:03
You hear the difference?
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Slišite razliko?
05:04
We vote for politicians with lower voices, it's true,
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Resnica je, da volimo
za politike z nižjim glasom,
za politike z nižjim glasom,
05:08
because we associate depth with power
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ker povezujemo globino z močjo
05:11
and with authority.
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in avtoriteto.
05:14
That's register.
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To je register.
05:16
Then we have timbre.
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Potem imamo barvo glasu.
05:17
It's the way your voice feels.
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To je občutek vašega glasu.
05:19
Again, the research shows that we prefer voices
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Raziskave spet kažejo,
da imamo rajši glasove,
da imamo rajši glasove,
05:21
which are rich, smooth, warm, like hot chocolate.
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ki so bogati, gladki, topli,
kot vroča čokolada.
kot vroča čokolada.
05:26
Well if that's not you, that's not the end of the world,
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Če to niste vi, ni konec sveta,
05:30
because you can train.
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ker lahko vadite.
05:31
Go and get a voice coach.
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Poiščite vokalnega učitelja.
05:32
And there are amazing things you can do
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Z dihanjem, držo in vajami
lahko dosežete čudovite reči
lahko dosežete čudovite reči
05:34
with breathing, with posture, and with exercises
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05:37
to improve the timbre of your voice.
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za izboljšavo barve vašega glasu.
05:39
Then prosody. I love prosody.
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Nato prozodija. Obožujem prozodijo.
05:41
This is the sing-song, the meta-language
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To je prepevanje, meta-jezik,
05:43
that we use in order to impart meaning.
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ki ga uporabljamo za določanje pomena.
05:45
It's root one for meaning in conversation.
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Je osnova za pomen v pogovoru.
05:48
People who speak all on one note
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Ljudi, ki govorijo monotono
05:50
are really quite hard to listen to
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je zares težko poslušati,
05:52
if they don't have any prosody at all.
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če ne uporabljajo prozodije.
05:54
That's where the world monotonic comes from,
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Od tu izhaja beseda monotonski
05:57
or monotonous, monotone.
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ali monoton, eno-tonski.
06:00
Also we have repetitive prosody now coming in,
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Potem imamo tudi
ponavljajočo se prozodijo,
ponavljajočo se prozodijo,
06:03
where every sentence ends as if it were a question
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kjer se vsak stavek konča kot vprašanje,
06:06
when it's actually not a question, it's a statement.
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ko to ni, je izjava?
06:08
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:11
And if you repeat that one over and over,
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In če to ponavljate ves čas,
to pravzaprav omejuje vašo sposobnost
to pravzaprav omejuje vašo sposobnost
06:12
it's actually restricting your ability
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06:14
to communicate through prosody,
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komuniciranja prek prozodije,
kar je res škoda.
kar je res škoda.
06:15
which I think is a shame,
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06:17
so let's try and break that habit.
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Zato poskusimo prekiniti s to navado.
06:20
Pace. I can get very, very excited
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Ritem. Lahko sem zelo, zelo vzhičen
in govorim res, res hitro,
in govorim res, res hitro,
06:22
by saying something really, really quickly,
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06:24
or I can slow right down to emphasize,
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ali čisto upočasnim za poudarek,
06:28
and at the end of that, of course, is our old friend
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in na koncu tega je
naša stara prijateljica,
naša stara prijateljica,
06:31
silence.
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tišina.
06:34
There's nothing wrong with a bit of silence
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Nič ni narobe s kančkom tišine
v govoru, kajne?
v govoru, kajne?
06:36
in a talk, is there?
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Ni nam je treba zapolniti z em in ah.
06:38
We don't have to fill it with ums and ahs.
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06:41
It can be very powerful.
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Lahko je zelo močna.
06:43
Of course, pitch often goes along with pace
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Z ritmom gre seveda skupaj višina glasu,
ki nakazuje razburjenje,
a lahko ga dosežete zgolj z višino.
a lahko ga dosežete zgolj z višino.
06:46
to indicate arousal, but you can do it just with pitch.
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06:48
Where did you leave my keys?
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Kje si pustil moje ključe?
06:50
Where did you leave my keys?
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Kje si pustil moje ključe?
06:52
So slightly different meaning
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Torej nekoliko različen pomen
06:54
in those two deliveries.
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v teh dveh načinih.
06:56
And finally, volume.
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In končno, glasnost.
06:58
I can get really excited by using volume.
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Lahko sem zares razburjen z glasnostjo.
07:01
Sorry about that if I startled anybody.
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Opravičujem se, če sem koga prestrašil.
07:04
Or, I can have you really pay attention
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Lahko pa vas pripravim, da res poslušate,
07:06
by getting very quiet.
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tako da sem zelo tih.
07:08
Some people broadcast the whole time.
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Nekateri ljudje ves čas govorijo kot TV
komentatorji. Poskusite se tega odvaditi.
komentatorji. Poskusite se tega odvaditi.
07:10
Try not to do that.
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07:12
That's called sodcasting,
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Temu rečemo "telefon na avtobusu",
07:15
imposing your sound on people around you
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vsiljevanje svojega zvoka drugim,
07:17
carelessly and inconsiderately. Not nice.
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nespametno in brez uvidevnosti. Ni lepo.
07:21
Of course, where this all comes into play most of all
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Seveda, je vse to zelo uporabno,
07:23
is when you've got something really important to do.
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ko imate res pomemben opravek.
07:25
It might be standing on a stage like this
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Lahko je nastop na odru,
kot je tale, in predavati ljudem.
kot je tale, in predavati ljudem.
07:27
and giving a talk to people.
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07:29
It might be proposing marriage,
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Lahko je snubitev,
07:31
asking for a raise, a wedding speech.
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prošnja za povišico, poročni govor.
07:34
Whatever it is, if it's really important,
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Karkoli je, če je res pomembno,
07:36
you owe it to yourself to look at this toolbox
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si dolgujete, da pogledate v to škatlo
07:40
and the engine that it's going to work on,
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in v motor, ki bo delo opravljal
07:42
and no engine works well without being warmed up.
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in noben motor ne dela dobro
brez ogrevanja.
brez ogrevanja.
Ogrejte svoj glas.
07:45
Warm up your voice.
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07:47
Actually, let me show you how to do that.
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Pravzaprav, naj vam pokažem,
kako to naredite.
kako to naredite.
07:49
Would you all like to stand up for a moment?
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Če vsi za trenutek vstanete, prosim.
07:52
I'm going to show you the
six vocal warmup exercises
six vocal warmup exercises
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Pokazal vam bom
šest vokalnih ogrevalnih vaj,
šest vokalnih ogrevalnih vaj,
07:55
that I do before every talk I ever do.
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ki jih sam delam pred vsakim govorom.
07:59
Anytime you're going to talk to
anybody important, do these.
anybody important, do these.
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Kadarkoli boste govorili
s kom pomembnim, naredite te vaje.
s kom pomembnim, naredite te vaje.
08:01
First, arms up, deep breath in,
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Najprej, roke v zrak, globok vdih
08:04
and sigh out, ahhhhh, like that.
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in izdih, ahhhhh, takole.
08:07
One more time.
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Še enkrat.
08:09
Ahhhh, very good.
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Ahhhhh. Zelo dobro.
Zdaj bomo ogreli naše ustnice
08:12
Now we're going to warm up our lips,
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08:14
and we're going to go ba, ba, ba, ba,
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in bomo govorili ba, ba, ba, ba,
08:16
ba, ba, ba, ba. Very good.
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ba, ba, ba, ba. Zelo dobro.
08:19
And now, brrrrrrrrrr,
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In zdaj, brrrrrrrrrr,
08:22
just like when you were a kid.
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tako kot tedaj, ko ste bili otroci.
08:24
Brrrr. Now your lips should be coming alive.
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Brrrr. No, zdaj bi morale
vaše ustnice oživeti.
vaše ustnice oživeti.
08:26
We're going to do the tongue next
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Sedaj je na vrsti jezik.
08:28
with exaggerated la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.
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Pretiravajte z la, la, la, la, la, la.
08:32
Beautiful. You're getting really good at this.
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Krasno. Res postajate dobri v tem.
08:34
And then, roll an R. Rrrrrrr.
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In potem recite trdo R. Rrrrrrrrr.
08:38
That's like champagne for the tongue.
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To je kot šampanjec za jezik.
08:40
Finally, and if I can only do one,
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In na koncu, če lahko naredim samo eno,
08:42
the pros call this the siren.
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profesionalci temu rečejo sirena.
08:44
It's really good. It starts with "we" and goes to "aw."
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Res je dobra, Začne se z 'we'
in gre naprej v 'aw'.
in gre naprej v 'aw'.
08:46
The "we" is high, the "aw" is low.
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'We' je visok in 'aw' je nizek.
08:48
So you go, weeeaawww, weeeaawww.
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In tako greste weeeeeeaawwww, weeeeaawwww.
08:54
Fantastic. Give yourselves a round of applause.
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Odlično. Zaploskajte si.
08:56
Take a seat, thank you. (Applause)
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Sedite, hvala. (Aplavz)
08:59
Next time you speak, do those in advance.
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Naslednjič, ko boste govorili,
prej naredite to.
prej naredite to.
09:02
Now let me just put this in context to close.
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Zdaj naj za zaključek
vse to postavim v kontekst.
vse to postavim v kontekst.
09:05
This is a serious point here.
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Sedaj je na vrsti resen del.
09:07
This is where we are now, right?
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Tu smo sedaj, kajne.
09:09
We speak not very well
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Ne govorimo preveč dobro,
ljudem, ki preprosto ne poslušajo,
ljudem, ki preprosto ne poslušajo,
09:10
into people who simply aren't listening
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09:12
in an environment that's all
about noise and bad acoustics.
about noise and bad acoustics.
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v okolju, ki je polno hrupa
in slabe akustike.
in slabe akustike.
09:15
I have talked about that on this stage
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O tem sem govoril na tem odru
na različnih stopnjah.
na različnih stopnjah.
09:17
in different phases.
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09:18
What would the world be like
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Kakšen bi bil svet,
09:20
if we were speaking powerfully
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če bi govorili z močjo,
09:22
to people who were listening consciously
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ljudem, ki pozorno poslušajo,
09:24
in environments which were actually fit for purpose?
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v okolju, ki bi bilo primerno namenu?
09:27
Or to make that a bit larger,
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Ali da to malo bolj posplošim:
09:30
what would the world be like
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kakšen bi bil svet,
09:31
if we were creating sound consciously
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če bi zvok zavestno proizvajali,
09:34
and consuming sound consciously
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ga zavestno vpijali
09:36
and designing all our environments
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in naša okolja oblikovali
09:38
consciously for sound?
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zavestno za zvok?
09:39
That would be a world that does sound beautiful,
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To bi bil svet, ki se res sliši odlično,
09:42
and one where understanding
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svet, kjer bi razumevanje
09:44
would be the norm,
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postalo norma
09:46
and that is an idea worth spreading.
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in to je ideja, ki jo je vredno širiti.
09:49
Thank you.
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Hvala.
09:51
Thank you. (Applause)
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Hvala. (Aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julian Treasure - Sound consultantJulian Treasure studies sound and advises businesses on how best to use it.
Why you should listen
Julian Treasure is the chair of the Sound Agency, a firm that advises worldwide businesses -- offices, retailers, airports -- on how to design sound in their physical spaces and communication. He asks us to pay attention to the sounds that surround us. How do they make us feel: productive, stressed, energized, acquisitive?
Treasure is the author of the book Sound Business, a manual for effective sound use in every aspect of business. His most recent book, How to be Heard: Secrets for Powerful Speaking and Listening, based on his TED Talk, offers practical exercises to improve communication skills and an inspiring vision for a sonorous world of effective speaking, conscious listening and understanding. He speaks globally on this topic.
Julian Treasure | Speaker | TED.com