TEDGlobal 2013
Julian Treasure: How to speak so that people want to listen
Džulijan Trežer (Julian Treasure): Kako govoriti tako da ljudi žele da vas slušaju
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Da li ste ikada imali osećaj da govorite, a da vas drugi ne slušaju? Zato je tu Džulijan Trežer. U ovom korisnom obraćanju, ekspert za zvuk, pokazuje kako govoriti moćno - od nekih zgodnih glasovnih vežbi, do trikova kako govoriti sa empatijom. Ovo je govor koji može doprineti da svet zvuči lepše.
Julian Treasure - Sound consultant
Julian Treasure studies sound and advises businesses on how best to use it. Full bio
Julian Treasure studies sound and advises businesses on how best to use it. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:14
The human voice:
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Ljudski glas:
00:16
It's the instrument we all play.
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to je instrument koji svi sviramo.
00:18
It's the most powerful sound in the world, probably.
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To je, verovatno,
najmoćniji zvuk na svetu.
najmoćniji zvuk na svetu.
00:20
It's the only one that can start a war
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Jedini je koji može da pokrene rat
00:22
or say "I love you."
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ili kaže "Volim te".
00:24
And yet many people have the experience
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Ipak, mnogo ljudi je iskusilo,
00:25
that when they speak, people don't listen to them.
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da kada govore, ljudi ih ne slušaju.
00:28
And why is that?
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A zašto je tako?
00:29
How can we speak powerfully
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Kako možemo da govorimo svemoćno
00:31
to make change in the world?
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da bismo promenili nešto na svetu?
00:33
What I'd like to suggest, there are
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Voleo bih da predložim da postoji
00:35
a number of habits that we need to move away from.
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mnogo navika od kojih
moramo da se klonimo.
moramo da se klonimo.
00:37
I've assembled for your pleasure here
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Za vaše zadovoljstvo, sastavio sam
00:39
seven deadly sins of speaking.
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sedam smrtnih grehova govora.
00:41
I'm not pretending this is an exhaustive list,
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Ne zavaravam se da je ovo konačna lista,
00:43
but these seven, I think, are pretty large
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ali mislim da su ovih sedam,
veoma krupne,
veoma krupne,
00:46
habits that we can all fall into.
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navike pred kojima
svi možemo pokleknuti.
svi možemo pokleknuti.
00:49
First, gossip,
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Prvo, trač.
00:52
speaking ill of somebody who's not present.
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Loše govoriti o nekome
ko nije prisutan.
ko nije prisutan.
To nije lepa navika,
i znamo vrlo dobro
i znamo vrlo dobro
00:54
Not a nice habit, and we know perfectly well
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00:56
the person gossiping five minutes later
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da će osoba sa kojom smo tračarili
pet minuta kasnije ogovarati nas.
00:58
will be gossiping about us.
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01:01
Second, judging.
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Drugo, osuđivanje.
01:03
We know people who are like this in conversation,
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Poznajemo ljude koji
su takvi u razgovorima,
su takvi u razgovorima,
01:05
and it's very hard to listen to somebody
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i veoma je teško slušati nekoga,
01:07
if you know that you're being judged
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ako znate da vas procenjuje
01:09
and found wanting at the same time.
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i pronalazi nedostatke, u isto vreme.
01:12
Third, negativity.
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Treće, negativnost.
01:14
You can fall into this.
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Možete nasesti na ovo.
Moja majka je u poslednjim
godinama svog života
godinama svog života
01:15
My mother, in the last years of her life,
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01:17
became very, very negative, and it's hard to listen.
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postala jako negativna,
i to je teško slušati.
i to je teško slušati.
01:19
I remember one day, I said to her,
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Sećam se da sam joj jednog dana rekao:
01:21
"It's October 1 today,"
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"Danas je prvi oktobar."
01:22
and she said, "I know, isn't it dreadful?"
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a ona je rekla:
"Znam, zar to nije užasno?"
"Znam, zar to nije užasno?"
01:25
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:27
It's hard to listen when somebody's that negative.
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Teško je slušati kada je
neko toliko negativan.
neko toliko negativan.
01:30
And another form of negativity, complaining.
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I još jedan oblik negativnosti,
žaljenje.
žaljenje.
01:33
Well, this is the national art of the U.K.
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Pa, to je nacionalna umetnost
Velike Britanije.
Velike Britanije.
01:37
It's our national sport. We
complain about the weather,
complain about the weather,
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Naš nacionalni sport.
Žalimo se na vreme,
Žalimo se na vreme,
01:39
about sport, about politics, about everything,
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sport, politiku, na sve.
01:42
but actually complaining is viral misery.
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U stvari, žaljenje je zarazna beda.
01:44
It's not spreading sunshine
and lightness in the world.
and lightness in the world.
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Ne širi sunce i svetlost po svetu.
01:48
Excuses. We've all met this guy.
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Izgovori. Svi smo upoznali takvog tipa.
01:51
Maybe we've all been this guy.
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Možda smo svi bili taj tip.
01:52
Some people have a blamethrower.
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Neki ljudi svaljuju krivicu,
01:55
They just pass it on to everybody else
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samo je prebace na nekog drugog
01:57
and don't take responsibility for their actions,
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i ne preuzimaju
odgovornost za svoja dela.
odgovornost za svoja dela.
01:59
and again, hard to listen to
somebody who is being like that.
somebody who is being like that.
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Opet, teško je slušati
nekog ko je takav.
nekog ko je takav.
02:02
Penultimate, the sixth of the seven,
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Pretposlednji, šesti od ukupno sedam,
02:04
embroidery, exaggeration.
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kićenje, preuveličavanje.
02:08
It demeans our language, actually, sometimes.
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U stvari, to obezvređuje naš jezik.
02:10
For example, if I see something
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Na primer, ako smatram
02:12
that really is awesome,
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da je nešto zaista strava,
02:14
what do I call it?
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kako ja to nazivam?
02:15
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:17
And then of course this exaggeration becomes lying,
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I naravno, ovo preterivanje
postaje lažno,
postaje lažno,
02:20
out and out lying, and we don't want to listen
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potpuno lažno,
i mi ne želimo da slušamo
i mi ne želimo da slušamo
02:22
to people we know are lying to us.
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ljude koji nas lažu.
02:24
And finally, dogmatism,
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I na kraju, dogmatizam,
02:27
the confusion of facts with opinions.
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pometnja činjenica i stavova.
02:31
When those two things get conflated,
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Kada se te dve stvari izmešaju,
02:33
you're listening into the wind.
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vi slušate uzaludno.
02:34
You know, somebody is bombarding you
with their opinions as if they were true.
with their opinions as if they were true.
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Znate, neko vas bombarduje
mišljenjima kao da su istine.
mišljenjima kao da su istine.
02:38
It's difficult to listen to that.
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A to je teško slušati.
02:40
So here they are, seven deadly sins of speaking.
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I eto ih, sedam smrtnih
grehova govora.
grehova govora.
02:43
These are things I think we need to avoid.
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Ove stvari bi trebalo da izbegavamo.
02:46
But is there a positive way to think about this?
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Ali, da li postoji pozitivan način
da mislimo o ovome?
da mislimo o ovome?
02:48
Yes, there is.
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Da, postoji.
02:50
I'd like to suggest that there are four
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Voleo bih da predložim četiri
02:52
really powerful cornerstones, foundations,
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zaista čvrsta temelja,
02:55
that we can stand on if we want our speech
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na kojima možemo stajati,
ako želimo da naš govor
ako želimo da naš govor
02:58
to be powerful and to make change in the world.
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bude moćan i promeni svet.
03:01
Fortunately, these things spell a word.
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Srećom, ove stvari formiraju reč.
03:04
The word is "hail," and it has
a great definition as well.
a great definition as well.
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Ta reč je "hail" (engl. grad)
koja ima i šire značenje.
koja ima i šire značenje.
03:07
I'm not talking about the stuff that falls from the sky
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Ne mislim na ono što pada sa neba
03:09
and hits you on the head.
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i udara vas po glavi.
03:10
I'm talking about this definition,
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Milslim na ovu definiciju:
03:12
to greet or acclaim enthusiastically,
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"pozdraviti
ili entuzijastično odobravati",
ili entuzijastično odobravati",
kako ja mislim
da će naše reči biti prihvaćene,
da će naše reči biti prihvaćene,
03:14
which is how I think our words will be received
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03:17
if we stand on these four things.
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ako se oslonimo na ove četiri stvari.
03:18
So what do they stand for?
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Šta one predstavljaju?
03:20
See if you can guess.
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Vidite da li možete da pogodite.
03:21
The H, honesty, of course,
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H - honesty (iskrenost), naravno,
03:25
being true in what you say, being straight and clear.
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budi iskren u onome što govoriš,
budi ispravan i tačan.
budi ispravan i tačan.
03:28
The A is authenticity, just being yourself.
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A - autentičnost, samo budi ono što jesi.
03:32
A friend of mine described it as
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Jedan moj prijatelj je opisao ovo
03:33
standing in your own truth,
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kao stajanje na sopstvenoj istini,
03:35
which I think is a lovely way to put it.
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što je divan način za objašnjenje.
03:37
The I is integrity, being your word,
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I - integritet, budi ono što govoriš,
03:40
actually doing what you say,
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u stvari, radi ono što govoriš,
03:41
and being somebody people can trust.
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i budi neko kome ljudi mogu da veruju.
03:44
And the L is love.
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L - love (ljubav).
03:47
I don't mean romantic love,
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Ne mislim na romantičnu ljubav,
03:49
but I do mean wishing people well, for two reasons.
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već da drugim ljudima
želiš dobro, iz dva razloga.
želiš dobro, iz dva razloga.
03:52
First of all, I think absolute honesty
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Prvo, smatram da totalna iskrenost
03:55
may not be what we want.
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nije ono što mi želimo.
03:56
I mean, my goodness, you look ugly this morning.
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"O bože, izgledaš ružno ovoga jutra."
03:58
Perhaps that's not necessary.
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Možda to nije neophodno.
04:02
Tempered with love, of course,
honesty is a great thing.
honesty is a great thing.
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Obavijena s ljubavlju, naravno,
iskrenost je sjajna stvar.
iskrenost je sjajna stvar.
04:05
But also, if you're really wishing somebody well,
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Isto tako, ako zaista
nekome želite dobro,
nekome želite dobro,
04:08
it's very hard to judge them at the same time.
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veoma je teško da ga
osuđujete u isto vreme.
osuđujete u isto vreme.
04:11
I'm not even sure you can do those two things
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Nisam ni siguran da možete
te dve stvari raditi
te dve stvari raditi
04:13
simultaneously.
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u isto vreme.
04:15
So hail.
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Zato, pozdravljajte!
Sada, to što kažete, kao u staroj pesmi
04:17
Also, now that's what you say,
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04:18
and it's like the old song, it is what you say,
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jesu vaše reči koje govorite,
04:20
it's also the way that you say it.
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ali takođe je i način na koji govorite.
04:22
You have an amazing toolbox.
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Imate neverovatnu kutiju za alat.
04:24
This instrument is incredible,
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Instrument je sjajan,
04:26
and yet this is a toolbox that very
few people have ever opened.
few people have ever opened.
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a ipak to je kutija koju je
malo ljudi otvorilo.
malo ljudi otvorilo.
04:29
I'd like to have a little rummage in there
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Voleo bih da malo ispreturam po njoj
04:31
with you now and just pull a few tools out
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sa vama i da izvučem nekoliko alata
04:33
that you might like to take away and play with,
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koje biste možda poneli
sa sobom i poigrali se,
sa sobom i poigrali se,
04:35
which will increase the power of your speaking.
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i koji će povećati moć vašeg govora.
04:38
Register, for example.
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Registar, na primer.
04:40
Now, falsetto register may not
be very useful most of the time,
be very useful most of the time,
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Falseto registar možda
nije baš koristan u većini slučajeva,
nije baš koristan u većini slučajeva,
04:44
but there's a register in between.
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ali postoji srednji registar.
Neću biti baš precizan oko ovoga,
04:46
I'm not going to get very technical about this
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za sve vas koji ste glasovni treneri.
04:47
for any of you who are voice coaches.
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04:49
You can locate your voice, however.
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U svakom slučaju,
možete locirati vaš glas.
možete locirati vaš glas.
04:51
So if I talk up here in my nose,
you can hear the difference.
you can hear the difference.
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Tako da, ako pričam iz nosa,
možete čuti razliku.
možete čuti razliku.
04:53
If I go down here in my throat,
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Ako pričam iz grla,
04:55
which is where most of us
speak from most of the time.
speak from most of the time.
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kako i većina nas priča sve vreme.
04:58
But if you want weight,
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Ali, ako želite težinu,
05:00
you need to go down here to the chest.
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morate se spustiti do grudi.
05:03
You hear the difference?
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Čujete razliku?
05:04
We vote for politicians with lower voices, it's true,
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Glasamo za političare
sa dubljim glasovima, tačno je,
sa dubljim glasovima, tačno je,
05:08
because we associate depth with power
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jer dubinu povezujemo sa snagom
05:11
and with authority.
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i autoritetom.
05:14
That's register.
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To je registar.
05:16
Then we have timbre.
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Potom imamo boju glasa.
05:17
It's the way your voice feels.
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Način na koji vaš glas deluje drugima.
05:19
Again, the research shows that we prefer voices
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Istraživanja pokazuju
da više volimo glasove
da više volimo glasove
05:21
which are rich, smooth, warm, like hot chocolate.
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koji su bogati, glatki, topli,
kao topla čokolada.
kao topla čokolada.
05:26
Well if that's not you, that's not the end of the world,
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Ako to niste vi, nije kraj sveta,
05:30
because you can train.
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jer možete da trenirate.
05:31
Go and get a voice coach.
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Nabavite sebi glasovnog trenera.
05:32
And there are amazing things you can do
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Neverovatne su stvari
koje možete da uradite,
koje možete da uradite,
05:34
with breathing, with posture, and with exercises
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disanjem, držanjem, vežbama
05:37
to improve the timbre of your voice.
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da biste poboljšali boju vašeg glasa.
05:39
Then prosody. I love prosody.
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Zatim prozodija, obožavam prozodiju.
05:41
This is the sing-song, the meta-language
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To je pevušenje, metajezik,
05:43
that we use in order to impart meaning.
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koji koristimo
da bismo naglasili značenje.
da bismo naglasili značenje.
05:45
It's root one for meaning in conversation.
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Koren značenja u razgovoru.
05:48
People who speak all on one note
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Ljude koji sve govore u jednom tonu
05:50
are really quite hard to listen to
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je jako teško slušati,
05:52
if they don't have any prosody at all.
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ako nemaju nikakvu prozodiju.
05:54
That's where the world monotonic comes from,
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Otuda i poreklo reči monotono,
05:57
or monotonous, monotone.
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ili jednolično, jedan ton.
06:00
Also we have repetitive prosody now coming in,
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Isto tako sada imamo
repetitivnu prozodiju,
repetitivnu prozodiju,
06:03
where every sentence ends as if it were a question
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gde se svaka rečenica
završava kao da je upitna,
završava kao da je upitna,
06:06
when it's actually not a question, it's a statement.
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a u stvari nije pitanje, već tvrdnja.
06:08
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:11
And if you repeat that one over and over,
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Ako ponavljate to iznova i iznova,
06:12
it's actually restricting your ability
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u stvari ćete ograničiti svoju mogućnost
06:14
to communicate through prosody,
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da pričate kroz prozodiju,
06:15
which I think is a shame,
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što mislim da je šteta.
06:17
so let's try and break that habit.
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Hajde da probamo da prekinemo tu naviku.
06:20
Pace. I can get very, very excited
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Tempo. Mogu da budem veoma uzbuđen
i da govorim nešto veoma, veoma brzo,
06:22
by saying something really, really quickly,
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06:24
or I can slow right down to emphasize,
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ili mogu da usporim
da bih nešto naglasio.
da bih nešto naglasio.
06:28
and at the end of that, of course, is our old friend
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Na kraju je, naravno,
naša stara prijateljica
naša stara prijateljica
06:31
silence.
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tišina.
06:34
There's nothing wrong with a bit of silence
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Nema ništa lošeg ako u razgovoru imamo
06:36
in a talk, is there?
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malo tišine, zar ne?
06:38
We don't have to fill it with ums and ahs.
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Ne moramo da ga ispunimo sa "ah" i "hm".
06:41
It can be very powerful.
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Može biti veoma moćna.
06:43
Of course, pitch often goes along with pace
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Naravno, visina ide često
pod ruku sa tempom,
pod ruku sa tempom,
06:46
to indicate arousal, but you can do it just with pitch.
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ne bi li iskazala uzbuđenje,
ali visina može biti dovoljna.
ali visina može biti dovoljna.
06:48
Where did you leave my keys?
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Gde si ostavio moje ključeve?
06:50
Where did you leave my keys?
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Gde si ostavio moje ključeve?
06:52
So slightly different meaning
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Tako mala promena u značenju
06:54
in those two deliveries.
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te dve rečenice.
06:56
And finally, volume.
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I konačno, jačina.
06:58
I can get really excited by using volume.
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Mogu biti veoma uzbuđen koristeći jačinu.
07:01
Sorry about that if I startled anybody.
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Izvinjavam se ako sam preplašio nekoga.
07:04
Or, I can have you really pay attention
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Ili vas mogu naterati
da zaista obratite pažnju,
da zaista obratite pažnju,
07:06
by getting very quiet.
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ako postanem veoma tih.
07:08
Some people broadcast the whole time.
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Neki ljudi kao da emituju
program sve vreme.
program sve vreme.
07:10
Try not to do that.
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Probajte da ne radite to.
07:12
That's called sodcasting,
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To se zove limitiranje programa,
07:15
imposing your sound on people around you
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nametanje vašeg glasa ljudima oko vas
07:17
carelessly and inconsiderately. Not nice.
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bezobzirno i nemarno. Nije lepo.
07:21
Of course, where this all comes into play most of all
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Naravno, sve ovo stupa na scenu
07:23
is when you've got something really important to do.
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kada imate da uradite nešto zaista važno.
07:25
It might be standing on a stage like this
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Može biti i stajanje na pozornici
07:27
and giving a talk to people.
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poput ove i držanje govora.
07:29
It might be proposing marriage,
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Može biti i prosidba,
07:31
asking for a raise, a wedding speech.
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traženje povišice, svadbeni govor.
07:34
Whatever it is, if it's really important,
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Šta god da je, ako je zaista važno,
07:36
you owe it to yourself to look at this toolbox
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sebi dugujete da pogledate
u tu kutiju sa alatom,
u tu kutiju sa alatom,
07:40
and the engine that it's going to work on,
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i motor koji će vas pokrenuti,
07:42
and no engine works well without being warmed up.
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a nijedan motor
ne radi dobro bez zagrevanja.
ne radi dobro bez zagrevanja.
07:45
Warm up your voice.
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Zagrejte vaš glas.
07:47
Actually, let me show you how to do that.
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U stvari, dopustite mi
da vam pokažem kako.
da vam pokažem kako.
07:49
Would you all like to stand up for a moment?
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Da li biste svi ustali na trenutak?
07:52
I'm going to show you the
six vocal warmup exercises
six vocal warmup exercises
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Pokazaću vam šest
glasovnih vežbi za zagrevanje,
glasovnih vežbi za zagrevanje,
07:55
that I do before every talk I ever do.
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koje ja radim pre svakog
govora koji držim.
govora koji držim.
Svaki put kada budete hteli da razgovarate
s nekim važnim, uradite ovo.
s nekim važnim, uradite ovo.
07:59
Anytime you're going to talk to
anybody important, do these.
anybody important, do these.
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08:01
First, arms up, deep breath in,
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Prvo, ruke gore, duboko udahnite,
08:04
and sigh out, ahhhhh, like that.
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i izdahnite, ahhhh, ovako.
08:07
One more time.
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Još jednom.
08:09
Ahhhh, very good.
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Ahhh, veoma dobro.
08:12
Now we're going to warm up our lips,
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Sada ćemo zagrejati naša usta,
08:14
and we're going to go ba, ba, ba, ba,
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i idemo sa ba, ba, ba, ba, ba,
08:16
ba, ba, ba, ba. Very good.
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ba, ba, ba. Jako dobro.
08:19
And now, brrrrrrrrrr,
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I sada, brrrrrrr,
08:22
just like when you were a kid.
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kao kada ste bili deca.
08:24
Brrrr. Now your lips should be coming alive.
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Brrrr. Vaše usne
bi sada trebalo da živnu.
bi sada trebalo da živnu.
08:26
We're going to do the tongue next
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Sada ćemo početi sa jezikom,
08:28
with exaggerated la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.
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sa prenaglašenim:
la, la, la, la, la...
la, la, la, la, la...
08:32
Beautiful. You're getting really good at this.
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Sjajno. Postajete stvarno dobri u ovome.
08:34
And then, roll an R. Rrrrrrr.
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I sada, zakotrljajte R.
Rrrrrrrrrr.
Rrrrrrrrrr.
08:38
That's like champagne for the tongue.
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To je kao šampanjac za jezik.
08:40
Finally, and if I can only do one,
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I na kraju, ako mogu samo još jednu,
08:42
the pros call this the siren.
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profesionalci ovo zovu sirenom.
08:44
It's really good. It starts with "we" and goes to "aw."
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Veoma je dobro.
Počinje sa "vi" i prelazi u "av".
Počinje sa "vi" i prelazi u "av".
08:46
The "we" is high, the "aw" is low.
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"Vi" je visoko, "av" je nisko.
08:48
So you go, weeeaawww, weeeaawww.
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Idete ovako, viiiiiiavvvvv, viiiiiavvvvv.
08:54
Fantastic. Give yourselves a round of applause.
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Fantastično. Častite sebe jednim aplauzom.
08:56
Take a seat, thank you. (Applause)
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Sedite, hvala vam. (Aplauz)
08:59
Next time you speak, do those in advance.
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Sledeći put kada budete govorili,
uradite to unapred.
uradite to unapred.
09:02
Now let me just put this in context to close.
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Dozvolite mi da sve stavim
u kontekst zaključka.
u kontekst zaključka.
09:05
This is a serious point here.
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Ovo je važna tačka.
09:07
This is where we are now, right?
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Ovde se nalazimo sada, zar ne?
09:09
We speak not very well
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Ne govorimo baš najbolje
09:10
into people who simply aren't listening
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sa ljudima koji jednostavno ne slušaju,
09:12
in an environment that's all
about noise and bad acoustics.
about noise and bad acoustics.
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u okruženju koje je bučno i loše ozvučeno.
09:15
I have talked about that on this stage
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O tome sam govorio na ovoj sceni
09:17
in different phases.
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u različitim fazama.
09:18
What would the world be like
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Kakav bi svet bio,
09:20
if we were speaking powerfully
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ako bismo govorili moćno
09:22
to people who were listening consciously
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ljudima koji bi pažljivo slušali
09:24
in environments which were actually fit for purpose?
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u okruženju koje je odgovarajuće?
09:27
Or to make that a bit larger,
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Ili da proširim,
09:30
what would the world be like
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kakav bi svet bio
ako bismo zvuk stvarali svesno,
09:31
if we were creating sound consciously
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09:34
and consuming sound consciously
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i upotrebljavali zvukove svesno,
09:36
and designing all our environments
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i kreirali naše okruženje
09:38
consciously for sound?
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svesno za zvuk?
09:39
That would be a world that does sound beautiful,
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To bi bio svet
koji bi zaista zvučao prelepo,
koji bi zaista zvučao prelepo,
09:42
and one where understanding
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i gde bi se razumevanje
09:44
would be the norm,
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smatralo pravilom,
09:46
and that is an idea worth spreading.
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i to je ideja koja je vredna širenja.
Hvala vam.
09:49
Thank you.
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09:51
Thank you. (Applause)
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Hvala. (Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julian Treasure - Sound consultantJulian Treasure studies sound and advises businesses on how best to use it.
Why you should listen
Julian Treasure is the chair of the Sound Agency, a firm that advises worldwide businesses -- offices, retailers, airports -- on how to design sound in their physical spaces and communication. He asks us to pay attention to the sounds that surround us. How do they make us feel: productive, stressed, energized, acquisitive?
Treasure is the author of the book Sound Business, a manual for effective sound use in every aspect of business. His most recent book, How to be Heard: Secrets for Powerful Speaking and Listening, based on his TED Talk, offers practical exercises to improve communication skills and an inspiring vision for a sonorous world of effective speaking, conscious listening and understanding. He speaks globally on this topic.
Julian Treasure | Speaker | TED.com